Caught Red-Handed [HTML note: This conversation continued over multiple
exchanges, which many found confusing to follow. If you wish, refer to the
original plaintext version. knm]
[UseNet headers trimmed]
From: mstein@access1.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
[Much dialog snipped re energy input required to ignite a body]
Matt Giwer wrote: "But I can find the right inputs and then be able to make the correct calculations."
Then please do so.
The amount of energy needed to deal with the water is independent of
the amount of energy in the body. We do not have to agree right now on
how many calories there are in a human body in order to figure out how
many calories are needed.
In order to answer the question of whether the
body supplies enough calories, when burned, to repay the energy used to
ignite it, we must compute the ignition energy. Without that, we have no
way of knowing if the calories available (whatever they are) would be
sufficient. Correct?
So take a 70kg person as your input. Is 85% water an acceptable
assumption? Compute the number of calories required to deal with the
water in cremating a corpse. You have claimed you can do this
calculation. Please proceed. Show all your work. After you have given
your number and the computations you used to arrive at that number, I will
either agree to it and we can then work on the second half - finding the
number of calories actually obtained by burning an average 70kg corpse -
or I will tell you why I disagree.
[Remainder deleted to be dealt with after Mr. Giwer shows the computation
he has said he knows how to do.]
I do not show you how to do it because you have said you know how to
do it already. Therefore there is no reason for me to show you as it is
needless. Or is this an admission that you were lying?
I have deleted nothing that looked remotely like a computation of the
amount of energy needed to deal with the water in a corpse. At least, in
the English language.
Anybody? Has anyone seen Mr. Giwer post a detailed computation of the
number of calories needed to handle the water in cremating a corpse?
Please provide me with the article ID, subject, and date - anyone, not
just Mr. Giwer. I really, really, want to see it.
I will do it after you post yours - remember, your claim, your burden
of proof, therefore you first. Repost them as a followup to this article
(assuming you posted them elsewhere and I missed them). That shouldn't be
so hard, should it? Post the subject, date, and article ID of the article
I am supposed to have edited them out of. Or the DejaNews URL.
Psychic prediction: Mr. Giwer will never post his evidence.
I also do not do it because it is your claim that you know how to do
it, and your claim there was not enough coke. Therefore your burden of
proof for these claims. It is not my responsibility to do your work for
you. Sorry about that.
You will never know unless you post yours where I can see them. You
are also invited to send an email copy.
After you, my dear Alphonse. Your claim, your burden of proof. Sorry
about that.
Backing the lying Giwer-troll into a corner, of course. I did not
delete any computations of the number of calories needed to deal with the
water in igniting a corpse. Mr. Giwer does not provide the date, subject,
and article ID (or DejaNews URL) of his article where I allegedly did so.
He or anyone else is cordially invited to supply this information to
document the charge.
Remember, show your work. Posting a number without showing the
assumtions and formulas used is not acceptable. Any lying fraud could do
the same. Elsewhere you gave a figure of 30,000 kcal but showed no work
nor the assumptions about starting temperature and body weight and
percentage water by weight. Only if and when you fill in the blanks must
I either agree to accept your figure or show where you are wrong.
If you can repeat that a few trillion times it will become true.
This is too easy.
Linkname: Deja News Retrieved Document
[Remainder deleted. Thanks to DejaNews, again.]
See the 30,000. So, are you posting in your sleep? Or are you (as
some people suspect) allowing other people to post through your account
and you are not aware of what they are posting in your name? Or will you
declare that this is a Marduk forgery?
Any more lies you want to tell?
The
original plaintext version
of this file is available via
ftp.
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Mr. Giwer's 30000 kcal
Whopper
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.usenet.kooks
Subject: Those missing computations
Date: 24 Jun 1996 13:22:35 -0400
Matt Giwer asked: "Why do you not show me how to do it."
Matt Giwer had written: "Lets see. You deleted the computation and then you imply I have not posted the computaion."
Matt Giwer: "Why do you not post yours so I can do the same thing? "
Matt Giwer: "You are incapable of doing them. The only thing you can do is delete mine."
Matt Giwer: "Post you calculations."
Matt Giwer: "I did. You deleted them, asshole. What kind of stupid game do you think you are playing?"
Matt Giwer: "You deleted what I did."
Matt Giwer: "Now you make a 30,000 kcal claim which I never made."
URL: http://xp4.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?recnum=%3c4pvr85$t4r@
dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com%3e&server=dnserver.dbapr
Subject: Re: Dresden?
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Date: 1996/06/16
Message-Id: <4pvr85$t4r@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com>
References:
Matt Giwer: "Anything else you want to try to run with on this on?"
Mike Stein The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420 Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA 22210 position of my employer.