One Hundred and Ninety-Second Day:
Thursday, 1st August, 1946 [Page 193]
In the first part of that affidavit Rabe states:
MAJOR MURRAY: It is, my Lord, but not this particular
portion of it referring to the SD. I did not intend to
repeat the other portions, but this portion refers
specifically to the SD and it is only those two sentences
that I intend to read.
Paragraph 1:
[Page 194]
[Rolf-Heinz Hoeppner] A. I already said before that few members of these
Einsatzgruppen and Einsatzkommandos were members of the
Security Service. It is not said here in any way that these
people to whom reference is made in this document had
anything to do with the Domestic Intelligence Service; and
if there was one there who belonged to that body - which is
certainly not seen from the document, because it only says
that he wore a uniform with the SD insignia - then he had
been detailed for that special service just as anyone else
may be inducted into the armed forces. That is precisely the
chief reason for a large number of mistakes which were made
with that term SD, that even the members who were on special
service all wore the same uniform.
Q. In any event, Ohlendorf was a member of the SD, was he
not?
A. Ohlendorf was chief of Office III, but that had nothing
to do with the fact that he also commanded an Einsatzgruppe.
That Einsatzgruppe could just as well have been commanded by
the chief of Office IV or V, or by an inspector or anybody
else. That had nothing to do with the activity of Ohlendorf
as chief of Office III.
Q. Now, Ohlendorf has testified that frequent reports were
compiled by the Einsatzgruppen and sent back to the
headquarters. Did you see any of these reports while you
were in the headquarters of RSHA?
A. No. That was not possible because during the period when
I came to Berlin most of the Einsatzgruppen from the East
had been recalled. At any rate, no further reports were
coming in, and I am entirely of the opinion that in Office
III, the Domestic Intelligence Service, only a very few men
saw the reports from the Einsatzgruppen.
Q. I would like to have shown to you a series of fifty-five
weekly reports of the activities of the Einsatzgruppen, and,
incidentally, the Einsatzgruppen are known as the
Einsatzgruppen of the Security Police and the SD.
A. No, no, there were no Einsatzgruppen of the Security
Police and the Security Service, but rather there were only
the Einsatzgruppen A, B, C and D in the East; and, indeed,
there were good reasons for that.
Q. Before submitting that document to you, witness, I would
like to have you examine Document 3876-PS, which has already
been admitted in evidence as Exhibit USA 808; I call your
attention to the title page of that document, signed by
Heydrich, which reads as follows:
A. No. These Einsatzgruppen figured as Einsatzgruppen A, B,
C and D. They were commanded by a deputy of the chief of the
Security Police and the SD with the Army groups in question,
or with the army.
The designation "Einsatzgruppen of the Security Police and
the SD " is unfortunately wrong.
Q. So Heydrich is wrong again, is he, and all the documents
are wrong?
A. No, I do not want to say that the document is false, but
I merely maintain that the expression is not correct. I ask
you to look at the distribution list; it says there: "To the
chiefs of Einsatzgruppen A, B, C arid D." Besides, the
Einsatzkommandos were not called Kommandos and Security
Police of the SD, but, as far as I know, they had Arabic
numerals from one to twelve.
[Page 195]
A. One moment, please. There is no Page 31 or 32 in my
document.
Q. It is a very short passage. I will read it to you:
Q. "In the meantime ... " in the last sentence. "In the
meantime, 33,210 Jews were shot by the Einsatzgruppen of the
Security Police and the Security Service SD." It does not
say anything there about groups A, B, C or D, does it?
A. No, it says Security Police and SD. I only do not
understand what that is supposed to have to do with the
Domestic Intelligence Service, Security Service.
Q. Except that Ohlendorf was the head of your service, was
he not?
A. When he functioned as chief of Office III - in Berlin,
but during the time when he directed Einsatzgruppe D, he was
on special service, and the period of special service is
treated exactly like a period of compulsory military
service.
Q. Witness, are you informed of the fact that the SD was
carrying on espionage activities in the United States prior
to Germany's declaration of war against the United States?
A. I cannot imagine that the Domestic Intelligence Service
would have worked in the United States.
Q. I would like to offer in evidence, if the Tribunal
please, Document 5043-PS, which becomes Exhibit USA 920.
This document is a teletype message of the Foreign Office,
dated 11th July, 1941. I will read just one sentence from
it, "Reference teletype No. 2110 of 5.7 from Washington.
Herr Reich Foreign Minister (RAM)." That was Ribbentrop, was
it not?
A. One of the first questions which Herr Gawlik presented to
me was whether one could designate the Foreign Intelligence
Service as SD. I said, "Yes," and further clarification was
that the Domestic Intelligence Service and the Foreign
Intelligence Service were different organizations. Whether
the Foreign Intelligence Service, the foreign SD, Office VI,
had anything to do with this matter I cannot judge, because
I never worked in Office VI and understand nothing about
these things.
MAJOR MURRAY: Of course, when they were all part of the SD I
mean they were all members of the SD. I have no more
questions.
THE PRESIDENT: Would you re-examine if you, want to? Did the
Soviet Prosecutor want to ask any questions?
COLONEL SMIRNOV: Mr. President, I did want to put a few
questions to the witness, but these questions are in
connection with one new document - quite an interesting
document - which we only received today, and for this
reason, we have not had the translation into English made
up. Therefore, I do not know whether it would be appropriate
for me to put this question now when I do not have an
English translation to present to the Tribunal.
THE PRESIDENT: Perhaps we could do it in the morning. It
would be translated by then. Perhaps you could do it in the
morning?
COLONEL SMIRNOV: Thank you very much, Mr. President, yes.
[Page 196]
DR. GAWLIK: Mr. President, I do not know whether I will not
also have more questions after the new document is
presented. That, of course, I could not judge now.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, if there is anything that arises from
the new document, you could put the questions later on. You
will have a further opportunity if necessary.
DR. GAWLIK: Yes.
RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY DR. GAWLIK:
Q. Were the SS uniforms with the SD sign also worn by
persons who had nothing to do with the SD?
A. Yes, I have explained that repeatedly.
Q. Were the SS uniforms with the SD flash, also worn by
persons who had nothing to do with the SS?
A. Yes. I have already explained that repeatedly.
Q. Can you make any explanation as to why individuals who
had nothing to do with the SD wore the SD flash?
A. First, because all members of the Security Police also
wore that uniform; secondly, because any man at all who
served with an Einsatzkommando or an Einsatzgruppe wore a
uniform and the only uniform was the field-grey SS uniform
with the SD-flash.
Q. Why did they wear the SD flash?
A. Because it belonged to the uniform.
DR. GAWLIK: I have no more questions.
EXAMINATION BY THE TRIBUNAL
BY THE PRESIDENT:
Q. Have you got this document before you, 3867-PS?
A. 3867-PS?
Q. Yes. You see what it says there. "I herewith enclose the
9th summary report concerning the activities of the
Einsatzgruppen of the Security Police and the SD in the
U.S.S.R." That is the second paragraph, you see that -
describing the report?
A. In my document book there are several loose documents. Is
it the one of 27th February?
Q. 27th February, 1942, Page 17. Have you got it?
A. Yes, I have it.
Q. First of all you see it says "regarding report No. 9
concerning the activity of the Einsatzgruppen of the
Security Police and the SD in the U.S.S.R." And then the
first enclosure. Heydrich encloses the 9th summary report
concerning the activity of the Einsatzgruppen of the
Security Police and the SD in the U.S.S.R.
A. Yes.
Q. And you said, as I understood it, these were not the
Einsatzgruppen of the SD but were called Einsatzgruppen A,
B, C and D?
A. Yes.
Q. That is what you meant, was it not, that you could not
explain why they were "called of the SD"?
A. Yes.
Q. Well, will you explain why when distribution is set out
it is to be distributed to the chiefs of the Einsatzgruppen
A, B, C and D, and also to the commanders of the Security
Police and the SD?
A. May I make a statement concerning this report?
[Page 197]
Q. Assuming that that is so, why then should the report be
sent to the commanders of the Security Police in the SD in a
separate distribution to them as well as the distribution to
the chiefs of the Einsatzgruppen unless the SD had something
to do with it?
A. I believe I was misunderstood somehow. It is a report
about the activities of all the Einsatzgruppen which was
summarised by the chief of the Security Police of the SD and
which then went to the individual Einsatzgruppen, as I
assume, so that they would know what had happened in other
Einsatzgruppen, and so Einsatzgruppe D would know what had
happened in Einsatzgruppen A, B and C.
Q. Yes, it was not only sent to the Einsatzgruppen A, B, C
and D; it was also sent to the commanders of the Security
Police and SD. What I am asking you is: Why was it sent to
the commanders of the Security Police and the SD if they had
nothing to do with it?
A. Probably Heydrich wanted the commanders of the Security
Police and SD in Cracow, and the Higher SS and Police
Leaders to be informed of what was done in these
Einsatzgruppen, because it was also sent to the Higher
Police Leaders in Breslau, Dresden, etc., who certainly had
nothing to do with the activity of the Einsatzgruppen - to
the Reich Defence Commissioners in Konigsberg, Stettin,
Breslau.
Q. Well, then, your answer is that Heydrich made a mistake
when he described it as the activity of the Einsatzgruppen
of the Security Police and the SD, and when they sent out
and distributed it to the commanders of the Security Police
and SD, it was merely a matter of information; is that it?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you see the final distribution on Pages 46 and 47 or
is that the distribution of a different report; it is a
report on the 23rd of April, 1942.
A. Yes, 23rd April, 1942.
Q. And will you look at Pages 46 and 47?
A. Yes.
Q. About eight lines down, you see, it was distributed to
Major-General Kaltenbrunner, Vienna.
A. Yes.
Q. And the last line but two, it was distributed to Governor-
General Reich Minister Dr. Frank.
A. I cannot find Reich Minister Dr. Frick.
Q. Frank - Frank, I said.
A. Yes, for the attention of Oberregierungsrat Dr. Shepers.
Q. And the same is true on Page 18 of the report of the 27th
of February, 1942.
A. 27th February?
Q. Yes, on 27th February, 1942, it was also distributed to
the same people?
A. Yes.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal will adjourn.
(The Tribunal adjourned until 2nd August, 1946, at 1000 hours.)
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(Part 11 of 11)
"SS man acting as a guard on the edge of the pit during
the shooting of Jewish men - "
THE PRESIDENT: Wait a minute. This document is in evidence
already, is it not?
"The SS man acting as the guard on the edge of the pit
during the shooting of Jewish men, women and children, at
the airport near Dubno, wore an SS uniform with a grey
armband about three centimetres wide on the lower part of
his sleeve, with the letters 'SD' in black on it, woven
in or embroidered."
And dropping down to the last portion of the second
paragraph:
"On the morning of 314th July I recognized three or four
SS men in the ghetto whom I knew personally and who were
all members of the Security Service in Ravno. These
persons also wore the armband mentioned above."
It is a fact, is it not, witness, that many, of the members
of these Einsatzkommandos were members of your SD
organization?
"I herewith enclose the 9th summary report concerning the
activity of the Einsatzgruppen of the Security Police and
the SD in the U.S.S.R. This report will be sent out
periodically in the future." Signed Heydrich.
Are you not mistaken, witness, in saying that these were not
known as Einsatzgruppen of the Security Police and SD?
"In White Ruthenia the purge of Jews is under way. The
number of Jews in the part up to now handed over to the
civil administration amounts to 139,000."
A. Yes.
"Herr Reich Foreign Minister requests you submit
immediately a written report as to who, amongst those in
New York arrested on suspicion of espionage, worked with
the Abwehr and who with the SD."
Witness, does not that look as though the SD was carrying on
espionage activities in New York long prior to the
declaration of war on the United States?