The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)
Nuremberg, war crimes, crimes against humanity

The Trial of German Major War Criminals

Sitting at Nuremberg, Germany
2nd May to 13th May, 1946

One Hundred and Twenty-Third Day: Tuesday, 7th May, 1946
(Part 3 of 10)

[Page 164]

Q. And you said "I am a guilty man." You told us yesterday it was because you were upset a little in the general situation. I am suggesting to you that, is it not a fact that this matter that we have been talking about since yesterday has been on your conscience all the time and that was really what was on your mind, and it has been worrying you ever since you have been in custody? And isn't it about time that you told this Tribunal the whole story?

A. I cannot tell more to the Tribunal than I have already told, that is the truth. Let Herr Puhl be responsible before God for what he put in the affidavit, I am responsible for what I state here. It is clear that Herr Puhl is now trying to put the blame on me and to exculpate himself. If be has done these things for years with the SS, it is his guilt and his responsibility. I have only spoken to him two or three times about these things, that is, about the things I have mentioned here.

Q. You are trying to put the blame on Puhl, aren't you?

A. No. He is blaming me and I repudiate that.

Q. The trouble is, there was blood on this gold, wasn't there, and you know this, since 1942?

A. I did not understand.

Q. Well, I would like to ask you one or two questions about two short documents. It will take but a short time. You told the Tribunal yesterday that you had nothing to do with any looting of these occupied countries. Do you know what the Roges Corporation was?

A. Yes. I don't know in detail what they did. I only know it was an organization which made official purchases for various Reich departments.

Q. This Roges Corporation purchased on the black market in France with the surpluses from the Occupation Cost Fund, didn't it?

A. I was against this type of purchase in the black market.

Q. I am not asking you whether you were for it or against it. I am simply asking you if it is not a fact that they did it.

A. I don't know.

[Page 165]

Q. All right. You'd better look at Document 2263-PS which is written by one of your associates, Dr. Landfried, whom you also asked for as a witness here, and from whom you have an interrogatory. This is a letter dated 6th June, 1942, addressed to the Chief of the OKW Administrative Office:
"In answer to my letter of 25th April, 1942," and so on ... "100 million Reichsmark were put at my disposal from the Occupation Cost Fund by the Army High Command (OKW). This amount has already been disposed of except for 10 million Reichsmarks, since the demands of the Roges Raw- Material Trading Company, Inc., Berlin, for the acquisition of merchandise on the black market in France, were very heavy. In order not to cause a stoppage in the flow of purchases which are made in the interest of the prosecution of the war, further amounts from the Occupation Cost Fund must be made available. According to information from Roges and from the Economic Bureau of the Military Commander in France, at least 30 million Reichsmarks in French Francs are needed every 10 days for such purchases.

"As, according to information received from Roges, an increase of purchases is to be expected, it will not be sufficient to make available the remaining 100 million Reichsmark in accordance with my letter of 25th April, 1942, but over and above this, an additional amount of 100 million Reichsmark will be necessary."

It is very clear from that letter written by your associate Landfried that the Roges Corporation, which was set up by your Ministry, was engaged in black market operations in France with money extorted from the French through excessive occupation costs, isn't it?

A. That Roges made such purchases is true. These things have already been dealt with here in connection with the orders and directives which the Four-Year Plan gave for these purchases on the black market. However, these are purchases which were arranged and approved by the State organization. What we, especially fought against were the purchases without limits in the black market. I already mentioned yesterday that I finally succeeded in getting a directive from the Reichsmarshal, that all purchases in the black market were to be stopped because through these purchases, naturally, merchandise was withdrawn from the legal markets.

Q. You told us that yesterday. That was 1943. There wasn't much left in France on the black market or white market or any other kind of market by that time, was there? That country was pretty well stripped by that time, as is shown by the letters.

A. In 1943 I believe a great deal was still coming from France. There was continuous production going on in France and it was considerable. The official French statistics show that even in 1943 large quantities of the total production were being diverted to Germany. These quantities were not a great deal less than in 1941 and 1942.

Q. Well, in any event I also want you to say something about Russia, because I understood you to say yesterday you didn't have much to do with that. Schlotterer was your man who was assigned to work with Rosenberg, wasn't he?

A. From the beginning I assigned the ministerial director Dr. Schlotterer to Rosenberg, so that only one Economic Department, the competent department for the Minister for the Eastern Occupied Territories, would work in Russia, and not two.

Q. That is all I want to know. He was assigned. And he participated in the programme of stripping Russia of machines, materials and goods, which went on for some considerable period of time, you knew about it.

A. No, that is not true. This man did not have this task. These transactions were handled by the Economic Department, East, which, I think, came under the Four-Year Plan. As far as I know these transactions were not handled by the Minister Rosenberg and certainly not by the Ministry of Economics.

[Page 166]

Q. It is a different story on different occasions. I think the best way is to read your interrogation. On 19th October, 1945, you were interrogated here in Nuremberg. You were asked this question:
"And part of the plan was to take machines, materials and goods out of Russia and bring them into Germany, was it not?
And you answered:
"Yes, most certainly, but I did not participate in that. But in any case it was done."
The next question:
"Question: Yes, and you yourself participated in the discussions concerning these plans, and also your representative, Dr. Schlotterer?

"Answer: I myself did not participate.

"Question: But you gave the power to act for you in that connection to Dr. Schlotterer?

"Answer: Yes; Schlotterer represented me in economic questions in the Rosenberg Ministry."

A. No, that is not true. This testimony is completely confused, because Schlotterer was assigned to the Rosenberg Ministry. He became head of the Economic Department there. Also, this testimony is not true to this extent, since we certainly sent more machines into Russia than we took out of Russia. When our groups came to Russia everything had been destroyed, and in order to put the economy there in order we had to send large quantities of machinery and other goods to Russia.

Q. Do you mean to say that you did not make these answers that I have just read to you when you are interrogated?

A. Those answers are not correct.

Q. You know, it is very interesting that you told us yesterday that the answers to the questions put to you by Major Ganz were incorrect. I put another interrogation to you yesterday, and you said that was incorrect. Now a third man has interrogated you, and you say that one is incorrect.

A. No, I say what I said is wrong.

Q. Well, of course, that is what I am talking about.

A. That is wrong.

MR. DODD: I will submit that interrogation in evidence; it is not in a form to be submitted, but I would like to submit it a little later, with the Tribunal's permission.

THE PRESIDENT: You will inform us when you do, as to the number and soon?

MR. DODD: Yes, I will. I have no further questions.

THE PRESIDENT: Do any of the other Prosecutors wish to cross- examine?

GENERAL RAGINSKY: After Mr. Dodd's cross-examination I have a few supplementary questions to ask.


Q. Defendant Funk, you testified yesterday that your Ministry at the time of the attack on the Soviet Union had very limited functions, and that you yourself were not a minister in the true sense of the word.

In this connection I want to ask you a few questions regarding the structure of the Ministry of Economics.

Tell me, are you familiar with a book by Hans Quecke, entitled The Reich Ministry of Economics? Do you know about this book?

A. No.

Q. You don't know? Are you familiar with the name of Hans Quecke?

A. Hans Quecke?

[Page 167]

Q. Yes. Hans Quecke. He was a counsellor in the Ministry of Economics.

A. Quecke was ministerial director in the Ministry of Economics.

Q. And he, of course, knew about structure of the Ministry of Economics and about its function. Am I right?

A. Certainly. He must have known about that.

GENERAL RAGINSKY: I present this book in evidence to the Tribunal as Exhibit USSR 451, and you, witness, will receive a photostat copy of the section of this book, in order that you can follow me. Please open it at Page 65 and read the last paragraph. Have you found the passage in question?

A. I haven't found it yet. I can only see -

Q. Page 65, last paragraph of the page.

A. Yes.

Q. Have you found it?

A. The structure of the Ministry of Economics?

Q. It gives the structure of the Ministry of Economics as at the 1st July, 1941. Your permanent deputy was a certain Dr. Landfried. Is that the same Landfried whose testimony was presented by the Defence Counsel?

A. Yes.

Q. I must ask you to follow the text:

"Landfried had under him a special department which was in charge of fundamental questions of supply of raw materials for the military economy."
Defendant Funk, I am asking you -

A. Just a moment. Where is that?

Q. It is in Section 2, Part Ts. Have you found it?

A. No, there is nothing here about war economy. I do not see anything about war economy. Foreign Organizations -

Q. Part Ts, sub-paragraph 2.

A. It says nothing about war economy here.

Q. I shall read the entire paragraph into the record. We shall get down to the Foreign Organizations in good time.

A. This is a special section.

Q. Yes, a special section.

A. - directly subordinate to the State Secretary here is Section S, Special Section for the Supply of Raw Materials, basic questions of war economy, basic questions of -

Q. It is precisely about this war economy that I wish to speak. "He was also in charge of the fundamental market policy and of economic questions in the border territories."

The Ministry consisted of five main departments. Am I right?

A. Yes.

Q. The third main department was headed by Schmeer Am I right?

A. Yes.

Q. You had a special department entitled "Elimination of the Jews from Economic Life." That was in 1941? Am I right?

A. Yes; that was the time we dealt with these matters; that is, with the regulations for putting them into execution, and which we discussed at length yesterday.

Q. I ask you to follow the text:

"The fourth Main Department was headed by Dr. Klucke, and this department was in charge of banks, currency, credit and insurance matters."
Is that a fact?

A. Yes.

Q. I presume that you must know the structure of your own Ministry and you must know that the fifth Main Department was headed by State Secretary von Jagwitz This department was in charge of special economic problems in different countries. The fifth section of this department attended to questions of military economy connected with foreign economy. Am I right?

[Page 168]

A. Yes.

Q. The same department dealt with special foreign payments as well as with the confiscation of deposits -

A. I do not understand. This is the Foreign Trade Department. They merely dealt with foreign exports.

Q. Take the section dealing with foreign currencies. Have you found the passage?

A. Yes.

Q. You have found that it deals with the confiscation of deposits. Were you at all connected with the collaboration existing between your Ministry and the Foreign Political Department of the NSDAP? Is my question clear to you?

A. Yes.

Q. And your Ministry had a special section dealing with these matters?

A. This can be explained in this manner. The Under State Secretary, von Jagwitz, who was the head of this Main Department, was also active in the Foreign Organization. He had created a liaison office for himself in the Ministry to deal with economic questions which came to the Ministry - to this department, which was the Export Department - the Foreign Department via the Foreign Organization. This only concerned von Jagwitz, who at the same time was in the department for Foreign Organization and maintained a liaison office.

Q. Then we are to understand that the Foreign Political Department had special economic functions abroad, and that it co-operated with your Ministry in this sense?

A. No, that is not correct.

Q. Then why did this department exist?

A. It was not a department, but the Under State Secretary, von Jagwitz, was at the same time active in the department for Foreign Organization. I do not know in what position. He was active in the Foreign Organization before he was taken into the Ministry by the Reichsmarshal.

Then, he himself created a kind of liaison office between his department and the Foreign Organization. That is, frequently economists from abroad, belonging to the Foreign Organization of the NSDAP, came to Berlin, and these people came to Under State Secretary von Jagwitz and discussed their business with him and they reported to him about their experience and knowledge of foreign countries. I don't know any more about it.

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