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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "Poor team" KICK GERMANS IN TESTICLES BEYOND REPAIR
Date: 21 Jun 1996 03:35:48 GMT
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>   Jeff  writes:

Decides to once more defame American soldiers again with this  nonsense long 
proved to have been a total invention:



! The charge is that American soldiers, building evidence against Germans 
!  accused of war crimes, have behaved with the same sadistic cruelty as the 
!  beasts who terrorised Europe when it was under Nazi domination.


        Other than Joe MacCarthy,who made such a charge?  The twosources you 
cite Simpson and Van Roden never made any such statements.  Lucius Clay, to 
whom both reports were made denies knowledge of such conclusions.  In fact, all 
three came to the opposite conclusions.  Clay stated that the claims were made "in 
manifest self-interest"  and were not borne out be the medical evidence.

        In short, you have made a charge.  Present some evidence.  Give us a 
medical report that shows any physical brutality.

  
>  The truth has come out through the persistence of an American lawyer and 
>  the frank horror of an American Judge who refuses to be muzzled.
>  Judge Edward Van Roden member of a US Army Commission of Inquiry tells 
>  how burning matches were forced under the fingernails of a prisoner by 
>  American investigators to extort a confession. For months, he says, men 
>  were kept in solitary confinement on near-starvation rations. 
>  And they were beaten up and savagely kicked until strong men were 
>  redeuced to broken wrecks ready to mumble any admission demanded by 
>  their prosecutors. 

        No such information appears in the report.  Van Roden came to no such 
conclusion.  Odd that the physicians who examined the supposedly "broken" men 
found them to be in perfect health.

>  
>  The war department have shown the Judges personal report only to General 
>  Lucius Clay, their military commander in Germany. Washington suspects the 
>  reason was that it was too shocking for public disclosure. 

        Lucius Clay denies that physical brutality was ever used.  His statement on 
that has been posted several times.

>  
>  ....Commission sent to Germany to investigate was was even more candid.
>  "All but two of the Germans in the 139 cases we investigated, had been 
>  kicked in the testicles beyond repair." he charged.
>  "this was standard operating procedure with our American investigators.
>  "They would put a black hood over the accused's head and then punch him 
>  in the face with brass knuckles."
>  US Army prosecution teams had he said had posed as priests to hear 
>  confessions and give absolution.

        No such medical reports were ever made.

>  
>  At mock trials men who refused to confess were confronted by a crucifix
>  and burning candles. Those sham courts, attended by men in US Army 
>  uniform, passed sham death sentences. Then the accused were told: "Sign 
>  this confession and we get you acquitted." 
>  
>  [cited in 'The Sunday Pictorial' of Jan 23rd 1949 ]


        Which citred rumor.  They had not received the report.  It was not made 
public until 1952.
  
  
>  "All but two of the Germans in the 139 cases we investigated, had been 
>  kicked in the testicles beyond repair."

        The medical evidence in the Simpson Report -- the supposed source for this 
lie -- found no physical brutality was inflicted on the prisoners.  This has, as well, been 
posted several times.


>  "The change [of public opinion] followed the notorious case of the 
>  American Dachau Tribunal. This tribunal which was abolished in December 
>  1947, had tried 1,500 Germans and condemned 420 of them to death. In 
>  autumn of that year Dachau justicc became the subject of a commission 
>  of investigation under Judge Gordon Simpson of the Texas Supreme Court. 
>  The commission recommended that 29 men who were still under sentence ot 
>  death should be reprieved, and it declared that statements had be 
>  obtained both from defendents and witnesses by highly questionable 
>  means."

        This is correct.  They concluded that certain unacceptable interrogation 
practices were used on the perpetrators of the Madmedy Massacre.  The 
questionable means did not include physical brutality.  Again, the conclusions of the 
Simpson Report and that of Lucius Clay have been posted several times.   It should 
also be noted that the rest of the convictions were confirmed nd many were carried 
out.  Roberts continually miscites the Simpson Report.  He never explains why if they 
found such pervasive physical brutality (they did not, of course) why they only 
invalidated 29 of 420 convictions.   The answer is a simple one.  They found that 
there were some irregularities but that those were exceptions -- not the standard 
operating procedure.

>  Question: 
  
>  The 'Americans' tortured defendents. Shouldn't it call into question the 
>  validity of confessions given in previous trials?


        Since no-one was "tortured" the question is a silly one.  Moreover the 
irregularities were limited to those who murdered American soldiers in cold blood.  
>  Question:
  
>  If the Americans tortured defendents on such a scale, what did the 
>  governments of Britain, and the communists do?

        Since the Americans did no such thing the question is ridiculous.
           
>  "The review board confirmed all that Van Roden claimed"
>  Simpson...."conceded that this was probably a *poor team* "


        Neither, however, found the physical brutalities you claim.  In fact, both 
reports found that no physical coercion was used.

        There are two real questions:  The Simpson Report was made public and is 
part of the Congressional Record.  Why does this post not quote a single word from it?

        The second question is this:  If the deniers of the Holocaust are so 
dishonest about this point, what else are they lying about?

        --YFE

  
>  [cf p24 The Hoax of the 20th century by Arthur Butz]
>  Available from :- The Institute of Historical Review    
>                    PO Box 2739,
>                    Newport Beach,
>                    California 92659,
>                    USA
>  
>  Dr Butz is now on the World Wide Web at :-
>  
>  http://pubweb.acns.nwu.edu/~abutz/
>  
>  
>  
>  -- 
>  
>  Jeff Roberts
>  -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  --
>  Let your love towards life, be love towards your highest hope:
>  and let your highest hope be the highest idea of life.
>  
>  Friedrich Nietzsche 1844 - 1900.
>              
>  -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  --
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>>>>

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