Reposted October 10, 1996, in response to another "Pressac is a liar" post by Jeff Roberts. From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Jun 29 08:15:50 PDT 1996 Article: 46648 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.zeitgeist.net!rbi143.rbi.com!user From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: PRESSAC IS A LIAR Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 17:46:57 -0700 Organization: rbi software systems Lines: 248 Message-ID:References: <475192702wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi142.rbi.com X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5 In article <475192702wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk>, Jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk wrote: > Pressac, a holocaust liar, DELIBERATELY fabricates the details of the > visit of SS officer Pohl to Auschwitz: > > Start Quote:- > > [The Chief of the SS-WVHA, General of the SS Army Corps Pohl, presented > himself unexpectedly in morning of the 23rd of September at Auschwitz to > learn what was going on, and where the assigned tons of Zyclon B were > going. Pohl went first to the Bauleitung, and had the general set-up of > the camp explained to him, and the buildings that had been erected, > those under construction (including the four crematories of Birkenau) > and those planned described to him. His question on Zyclon B was answered > that with this product the jews and the lice were destroyed at the same > time.] > > > Pressac's source for the above is the diary of Johann Kremer published > in Auschwitz vu par le SS (Edition du Musee d'Etat a Oswiecim) [AUSCHWITZ > viewed by the SS (Edition of the State Museum at Oswiecim 1974)], pages > 233 and 234 (notes 182 and 183 on p. 105). > > In reality, these two pages from the end of page 233 to the end of page > 234, read as follows: > > > [In the morning, Obergruppenfuhrer Pohl arrived with his entourage, at > the residence of the Waffen SS. In front of the door a sentinel. For the > first time I am presented arms. The evening at 20 hours; dinner at the SS > Officers Club in the company of Obergruppenfuhrer Pohl: a real feast. We > were served fried pike all we wanted, real coffee, an excellent beer and > some sandwiches.] > > That is all. Actually, it reads: "September 23, 1942. This night was present at the 6th and 7th special actions. _Obergruppenfu"hrer_ Pohl with suite arrived at the _Waffen SS_ club-house in the morning. The sentinel presented arms in front of me for the first time. At 8 o'clock in the evening supper in the Home with _Obergruppenfu"hrer_ Pohl, a truly festive meal. We had baked pike, as much of it as we wanted, real coffee, excellent beer and sandwiches." (_KL Auschwitz Seen by the SS_, p.220.) > the rest is the product of Pressacs imagination. Perhaps. Let us examine what else Pressac has to say in this regard: "In order to combat the typhus epidemic that was raging through the camp n August 1942, it was necessary to eliminate the vector of the disease, lice. The most effective delousing agent was Zyklon-B, and without this product it would be impossible to eradicate the disease. On the eve of the < > order [July 23, 1942 - MV], authorization was received by radio to send a 5-tonne truck [officially classified 4.5 tonnes and capable of carrying a payload of 4950 kg on the road and 4100 kg off-road, and with a capacity of approximately 20 m3] to Dessau, to the Zyklon-B plant in order to collect < >. On 29th July authorization was received for another truck to go to Dessau to load < >. These two trucks would have brought back a maximum of 4,000 to 5,000 on kilogramme cans of Zyklon-B, if this was the size chosen. ON 26th August, Zyklon-B was running out or lacking, and a Renault truck (probably 3.5-tonne AHN) was sent to Dessau, this time for < >. On 2nd October, while the epidemic was still present, having reached a peak in September, the camp required < >. Finally, on 7th January 1943, to keep control of the now endemic typhus, another truck was sent to Dessau for < >. These five movement authorizations are the only ones in existence that mention this type of transport. They reflect the two different utilizations of Zyklon-B. But in what proportion? "As we know the quantity of Zyklon-B delivered, the dose necessary to kill one thousand people (according to Camp Commandant Hoess) and the number of people gassed during this period (obtained from the < >) it is easy to determine the percentage used for each purpose over the period 22nd July to 26th August: 2 to 3% for homicidal gassing and 97% for disinfestation purposes. This extremely surprising distribution totally invalidates the interpretations and presentation of these < > by the traditional historians, who claim that the word < > was used to camouflage>> homicidal gassings and that a gigantic massacre was going on, an argument supported by the < > image of big trucks scurrying back and forth between Auschwitz and Dessau, bringing back 5 tonnes of Zyklon-B on each trip (a quantity of 5,000 kg is enough to kill 1,250,000 people, more than the total number of Jews sent to Auschwitz!). "The truth is that the SS used the extermination of the Jews, about which their superiors had a general knowledge, without being informed of the practical details, to hide the terrible hygienic conditions in the camp, and to cover up their enormous consumption of gas for disinfestation purposes. If the knowledge of the disastrous state of affairs had reached Berlin, this would have had unfortunate consequences for Hoess, who had recently been congratulated by Himmler and promoted in rank, and for his entourage. What did the Auschwitz SS care, in the month of August 1942, about twenty or thirty thousand Jews killed in the seclusion of of the Birkenwald forest at the cost of a hundred kilos of Zyklon-B, when their own lives were at risk and the very existence of the camp threatened? It was necessary at all costs to stop the epidemic, which led to the radical and extremely effective solution of gassing all the sick or convalescing prisoners so as to get rid of both the lice AND THEIR CARRIERS [< >, Kalendarium... p.85]. So the SS made the Jews take the blame (the usual practice) for the huge Zyklon-B requirements, in order not to be accused of incompetence in the running of the camp and lack of control over the conditions obtaining there. However, this strategy was to have very long term effects because of the duration of the epidemic and the discovery of the sad truth by the higher authorities in September. That the SS should have worded two transport authorizations in such a way that after the war they should become crushing proof linking the Jews, their resettlement and special treatment with hydrocyanic gas, together meaning the death for those unable to work, becomes something of a statistical miracle when we consider the proportions in which the gas was used: 2 to 3% homicidal as against 97 or 98% disinfestation. The terms used in these authorizations, generally considered today to be incriminating slips, were deliberately used by the SS in what was a desperate period for them, when they were submerged by an epidemic and were trying to escape responsibility for this scourge for which they were in fact at least half responsible. (_Technique_, p.188) Oddly enough, there is no mention, in this passage, of _Obergruppenfu"hrer_ Pohl's September 23, 1942, visit to Auschwitz to "to learn what was going on, and where the assigned tons of Zyklon B were going" - and no reference to Kramer's diary. The only implicit reference would be: "However, this strategy was to have very long term effects because of the duration of the epidemic and the discovery of the sad truth by the higher authorities in September." But which higher authorities? Only 18 pages later in the text, outside the context of the discussion above, do we come across any such specific mention: "SS Lieutenant-General Pohl, head of the SS-WVHA, inspected the Auschwitz camp on 23rd September and was able to see that an epidemic was raging there." (Ibid. p.206) And... "Probably at Pohl's request, Dr. Ernst Robert Grawitz, Head of the German Red Cross, made a thorough inspection of the camp on 25th September. He saw the sick quarters overflowing, corpse storage, the temporary water treatment installations, the extermination of the Jews and the incineration of the corpses in open-air ditches." (Ibid.) Pohl's visit, mentioned in Kramer's diary above, simply notes that the _Obergruppenfu"hrer_ arrived at the _Waffen SS_ club-house in the morning and that at 8 o'clock in the evening he had supper in the Ho"ss residence (the "Home.") It does not detail what Pohl did in between. Kramer, in his diary, also noted Grawitz's visit: "September 25, 1942. Gruppenfu"hrer Grawitz visited the hospital and the camp. During the visit he asked me what a physician should, first of all, prescribe in all cases of infectious diseases. I really could not give an answer as it is not possible to generalize in such cases. And what was it he had in mind? Listen and be surprised - a laxative! As if a physician should prescribe a laxative for every cold, angina, diphtheria, not to mention typhoid! ..." (_KL Auschwitz Seen by the SS_, p.220-221.) Aside from Kramer's obvious incredulity at Grawitz's decidedly "odd" ideas as to what treatment a physician should prescribe for infectious diseases, Kramer _does_ note that Grawitz's visited (inspected) "the hospital and the camp." And what did Grawitz's inspection find? According to Danuta Czech: "SS Chief Doctor and Head of the Sanitation Central Office, SS General Dr. Ernst Robert Grawitz, inspects the Camp.* During his visit he inspects the overcrowded infirmaries, the morgue, and the temporary sewage plant in Birkenau. He is present at a gassing of Jews and the subsequent burning of the bodies in the pits. He sees that the medical supervision by the SS Camp Doctors is unsatisfactory and that the patients do not receive adequate care and also notes the generally bad health of the prisoners." (_Auschwitz Chronicle_, p.244. Ref: APMO, Ho"ss Trial, vol. 7, p.61; SAM _Auschwitz in the Eyes of the SS_, Kremer's Diary, p.222.) So here, at least, we _know_ that Pressac is correct. But what about Pressac's cite of Kramer's diary in regards to Pohl? First, it must be pointed out that the (inaccurate) passage that Mattagoro objects to so stridently does not come from Pressac's _Technique_ but from Gutman's and Berenbuam's _Anatomy of the Auschwitz Death Camp_ (p.222). The _exact_ text appears as follows: "On the morning of September 23, the head of the WVHA, SS-Gruppenfu"hrer Oswald Pohl, suddenly appeared in Auschwitz to find out where all the tons of Zyklon B were going. [footnote 101] Pohl went first to the Zentralbauleitung, had the overall layout of the camp explained to him, and got a description of the buildings that had been completed, those under construction (including the four crematoria in Birkenau), and the ones still on the drawing board. When he asked about the Zyklon B, he was told that the product was for the simultaneous destruction of lice and Jews. Pohl had no further questions on that topic. To prevent typhoid and malaria, he recommended speeding up construction of a large water purification plant." Now the interesting thing here is _where_ in this passage Pressac makes reference to Kremer's diary with footnote 101: "On the morning of September 23, the head of the WVHA, SS-Gruppenfu"hrer Oswald Pohl, suddenly appeared in Auschwitz to find out where all the tons of Zyklon B were going.... [footnote 101]" How is one to read this? Mr. Roberts obviously thinks this damns Pressac as a liar. But does it? I argue that it does not. In fact, I would further argue it is quite innocent in regards as to _where_ the cite to the footnote is placed in the passage. It is placed in context to Pohl's _arrival_, which Kremer's diary notes as being on September 23, 1942. Pressac, then, is in accordance with Kremer's diary in this respect. Only _after_ this footnote does Pressac detail the _purpose_ of Pohl's visit, which is _not_ mentioned in Kremer's diary. This, taken into consideration with the fact that Pressac's _previous_ work in _Technique_, which makes no allusions to Kremer's diary detailing the _purpose_ or _activities_ of Pohl's visit, indicates that Pressac's reference to Kramer's diary in _Anatomy_ is an honest one and not in the least deceptive- as it simply pins down the _date_ of Pohl's visit. This is further reinforced by the fact that Pressac is also in accordance with Kremer's diary on Grawitz's September 25, 1942 visit, and with Czech's _Auschwitz Chronicle_ (i.e. APMO, Ho"ss Trial, vol. 7, p.61) as to the purpose and details of Grawitz's visit. So who, really, is the liar here? Pressac or _Mr. Roberts_? Or is this a case of sublime ignorance (and _very_ poor research skills) on Mattagoro's (and Mr. Robert's) part? I'm sure DvdThomas would like to believe it was ignorance on Mattagoro's (and Mr. Robert's) part. (I'm curious as to hear if DvdThomas objects to Mr. Roberts calling Pressac a liar on such flimsy grounds?) But considering such "ignorance" seems to be a recurring theme with Mattagoro _and_ Mr. Roberts, I have my doubts. Either way Mattagoro and Mr. Roberts, whether out of ignorance and ineptitude- or intellectual dishonesty, have once more proven themselves to be a true denier "scholars." And once more proven that their "work" can be dismissed. Mark posted/e-mailed to Mr. Robert and DvdThomas. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but right through every human heart--and all human hearts." -- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago" --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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