From dvdthomas@aol.com Thu Aug  1 06:10:27 PDT 1996
Article: 54788 of alt.revisionism
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From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I'm taking a short powder as well
Date: 31 Jul 1996 19:07:11 -0400
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Powdered beer!?!  A greater breakthrough than the microprocessor chip. 
I'm in for 100 shares, minimum.

Plop, plop, fizz, fizz............
_________________________________________________________

"Just think of the tragedy of teaching children not to doubt."
- Clarence Darrow

David Thomas
CODOH (http://www.codoh.com/)


From dvdthomas@aol.com Thu Aug  1 06:10:28 PDT 1996
Article: 54789 of alt.revisionism
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From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hate crimes
Date: 31 Jul 1996 19:07:17 -0400
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Chuck Ferree writes:

>Perhaps a nebulous definition by your loose standards, Giwer, but the 
>multitude of anti-semitic words pouring from your mouth over the 
>months I have been participating in these debates, certainly 
>demonstrates that your hatred for Jewish people is beyond 
>comprehension.

Careful about throwing those stones from a glass enclosure, Chuck.  I can
recall some pretty hateful sounding statements coming from you at times,
including gems like "saving a round" for someone.
_________________________________________________________

"Just think of the tragedy of teaching children not to doubt."
- Clarence Darrow

David Thomas
CODOH (http://www.codoh.com/)


From dvdthomas@aol.com Sat Aug  3 07:03:27 PDT 1996
Article: 54993 of alt.revisionism
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From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: was Jesus a Bigot?
Date: 1 Aug 1996 19:04:36 -0400
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bud  wrote to Jay McCullough:

>(Scriptural quotes of Christ berating Pharisees)
>
>sound familiar?  Sound "bigotted?  Not very tolerant, is it?
>
>(Scriptural quotes of Christ berating Pharisees)
>
>Sound familiar again?  Sounds to me like the Lord wasn't very "tolerant"

Let me say first that I don't know what this thread is about or the
positions of those in it, nor do I care.  I am also not a follower of any
religion.  What interests me here is another incident of the misuse of the
term "bigot."

> >I think we can solve all your problems
> with the (mis???) usage of the word anti-semite Bud.
> How about we just settle for bigot?
> 
> Webster
> 
> Bigot
> 1. one who is unreasonably and blindly attached
> to a particular creed, church church party or opinion.
> 
> 2. one who is bitterly intolerant of the opinions of others

None of the criteria in this definition is satisfied by the scripture
quoted.  It appears to me that Christ didn't like the actions or character
of the Pharisees he addressed very much at all.  One might even reach the
conclusion that he is adamantly opposed to their ways.

However, no case is made that his attachment to his creed, church, party
or opinion is either unreasonable of blind.

Also, nowhere is there a call for stamping out either the Pharisees or
their lifestyle as being intolerable.  He indicates that he thinks they
suck and their actions do the same, but makes no call for active
suppression efforts.

Disagreeing with or disliking a person or a belief system is not bigotry. 
Actively trying to silence or eliminate either is bigotry.

The word antisemite seems to suffer the same misuse.  Intended initially
to refer to bigotry, it and its parent are now often used to in essence
say, "You don't like me or my philosophy, therefore you are a
bigot/antisemite."
_________________________________________________________

"Just think of the tragedy of teaching children not to doubt."
- Clarence Darrow

David Thomas
CODOH (http://www.codoh.com/)


From dvdthomas@aol.com Sun Aug  4 21:50:57 PDT 1996
Article: 55300 of alt.revisionism
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From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism
Date: 4 Aug 1996 05:51:56 -0400
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Sara writes:

>As for being a fool, you're right. Someone who can't figure out how to
>restrict followups, or how to set what newsgroups he posts to, IS a fool.
> 
>Sara

Given the choice of being a fool or an intolerant geek, I'll go with the
former.
_________________________________________________________

"Just think of the tragedy of teaching children not to doubt."
- Clarence Darrow

David Thomas
CODOH (http://www.codoh.com/)


From dvdthomas@aol.com Tue Aug  6 08:45:57 PDT 1996
Article: 55503 of alt.revisionism
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From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Zyklon B: Kieselguhr & Gypsum
Date: 5 Aug 1996 10:11:38 -0400
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Stefan Schneider wrote to Tom Moran:

>>        The carrier would have lot to do with any release rate. Just for
>>example, if we should pour equal amounts of, say, water and say,
>>benzine out on a metal sheet, the benzine would evaporate faster. The
>>composition of the solid vehicle, pellets, would have something to do
>>with it also. The density of the solid would be the most determining
>>factor.
>
>Actually, the density of the solid has no influence whatsoever on release

>times. To use your example: The faster evaporation of the benzine when 
>poured on a metal sheet is due to the high thermal conductivity of
metals. 
>And the evaporation of the water will be increased on a metal sheet as 
>well

I believe the first writer was using sheet metal simply to indicate a
non-porous surface.  By "faster evaporation" he meant only that benzene
evaporates faster than water in similar circumstances.  The observation
about high thermal conductivity of metals has nothing to do with the
relative rates of evaporation.  But it sounds nice.

>Actually, the density of the solid has no influence whatsoever on release

>times.

You then go on to give an example of activated carbon, which, in addition
to being porous has a physical affinity for the HCN.  Drop out the
physical affinity and consider only porosity and yes there is still an
effect on the evaporation rate.  It has to do with reduction in surface
area.  That was the whole purpose of absorbing and adsorbing HCN into the
carrier material--to slow the evaporation rate.  Otherwise it would have
been far simpler just to sprinkle some drops of HCN throughout the
facility, or to drop some crystals of a cyanide salt into small containers
of acid.  The disadvantage of both these techniques is the rapid
conversion of liquid HCN to gas.  Speed is not conducive to either safety
or efficiency in fumigation.

>You shouldn't even try to think you found any flaws in other people's 
>values, when the only thing your posting reveals is lack of physical and 
>chemical knowledge.

What you say here is not good advice, it's just an insult that ironically
could be directed at you as well as your target.  How else can a group of
people at widely dispersed locations arrive at a conclusion on anything
except by individuals presenting comments for group consideration and
evaluation?  An idea or statement is presented and critiques are offered. 
The critiques are then themselves critiqued.  The collective result of
those evaluations passes judgement on the idea or statement.  Notice that
there is one element left out of the critical process--the person offering
comments.  You have directed your insult to a person who offered a
statement for critique.  That action has no place in judging the merit of
statements, and in fact has been proven here and elsewhere to most
counterproductive to same.
_________________________________________________________

"Just think of the tragedy of teaching children not to doubt."
- Clarence Darrow

David Thomas
CODOH (http://www.codoh.com/)


From dvdthomas@aol.com Wed Aug  7 17:21:12 PDT 1996
Article: 55810 of alt.revisionism
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From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Dachau Gas Chamber-Stop tickling me!
Date: 7 Aug 1996 00:12:32 -0400
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Chuck Feree wrote:

>>rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>> 
>> And if SHAEF had told you the SS killed people by tickling them to
death, you would have believed that too.
>
>
>Not quite, turkey of the month club president. SHAEF didn't tell any 
>of us what to we. What I say I saw, I saw. What did you see? Besides 
>your dumb shit self in the mirror?
>Get out of my face.
>
>You really do need to see some body for help.
>Chuck

Well, that being the case (What I say I saw, I saw) perhaps this is a good
time to follow up on an earlier comment you made to me.

What raid in Europe was it that you participated in where we lost 160
planes?  (Your definite, unqualified statement made about three months
ago, I think the thread was on carpet bombing or gas chambers inside
Germany.)  Either the date or the place will do, you don't have to provide
both.  (Particularly since you cannot provide either.)
_________________________________________________________

"Just think of the tragedy of teaching children not to doubt."
- Clarence Darrow

David Thomas
CODOH (http://www.codoh.com/)


From dvdthomas@aol.com Mon Aug 12 20:56:34 PDT 1996
Article: 56966 of alt.revisionism
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From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Revisionist Breakthrough on "Vergasungskeller" from Arthur Butz
Date: 12 Aug 1996 18:03:07 -0400
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Rich Graves writes:

>Butz doesn't attempt to explain why the only place you find these
>gas shelters is in concentration camps.

What makes you think that?
_________________________________________________________

"Just think of the tragedy of teaching children not to doubt."
- Clarence Darrow

David Thomas
CODOH (http://www.codoh.com/)


From dvdthomas@aol.com Mon Aug 19 16:04:02 PDT 1996
Article: 58048 of alt.revisionism
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From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Anti-Racists Mutilate Baby
Date: 17 Aug 1996 16:06:02 -0400
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I think it's a joke too, but I don't get it.  At first I thought the
connection was "Whitehead," but that's the attorney's name.  One of life's
deeper mysteries perhaps.
_________________________________________________________

"Just think of the tragedy of teaching children not to doubt."
- Clarence Darrow

David Thomas
CODOH (http://www.codoh.com/)


From dvdthomas@aol.com Mon Aug 19 16:04:03 PDT 1996
Article: 58184 of alt.revisionism
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From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "rich graves" [and Shakespeare, and racist kooks]
Date: 19 Aug 1996 00:56:20 -0400
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Rich Graves wrote:

>Besides, thou sottish tickle-brained turlygod, Antigone and The Birds
>expressed similar sentiments, predating Sturluson by a millenium. So
>there.

Now you got me confused.  If Antigone and/or The Birds are his sottish
tickle-brained turlygod(s), then it should by "thy" and not "thou."  On
the other hand, if your correspondent is the sottish tickle-brained
turlygod, then it flies (but even The Birds couldn't fly for a millenium).
 This is potentially the most serious breach of outmoded grammar since
that fifties tear-jerker delivered as one of the Twelve Commandments of
Love that "Thy shalt never love another."
_________________________________________________________

"Just think of the tragedy of teaching children not to doubt."
- Clarence Darrow

David Thomas
CODOH (http://www.codoh.com/)


From dvdthomas@aol.com Mon Aug 19 16:04:04 PDT 1996
Article: 58189 of alt.revisionism
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From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "I'm _not_ a Nazi!
Date: 19 Aug 1996 00:59:18 -0400
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Gosh, what is it about this thread that conjures visions of Israelis and
Palestinians?
_________________________________________________________

"Just think of the tragedy of teaching children not to doubt."
- Clarence Darrow

David Thomas
CODOH (http://www.codoh.com/)


From dvdthomas@aol.com Mon Aug 19 16:04:05 PDT 1996
Article: 58215 of alt.revisionism
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From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 11-year old sets Canada's Internet Policy
Date: 16 Aug 1996 02:33:50 -0400
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Rich Graves wrote:

>>Meanwhile, the attorney-general in British Columbia has been battling a
>>15-year old boy who "mirrored" another Toronto-based racist's site when
it was
>>threatened with legal action--not because he agreed with the message but
>>because he felt Net freedom was more important.
>
>Never underestimate the stupidity of a journalist. This is bullshit. 
>"Battling a 15-year old boy"? Frank copied a few files, then went on
>vacation for a month. What "battle"? And as far as I know, Lemire has
>never been threatened with legal action.

I don't think Lemire is 15 years old.  Believe he's referring to someone
else.
_________________________________________________________

"Just think of the tragedy of teaching children not to doubt."
- Clarence Darrow

David Thomas
CODOH (http://www.codoh.com/)


From dvdthomas@aol.com Tue Aug 20 10:55:32 PDT 1996
Article: 58448 of alt.revisionism
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From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re:   Wieder mit dem
Date: 20 Aug 1996 11:02:49 -0400
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Yale Edeiken writes, to J.F. Beaulieu:

> Which, as usual, you do not name.  Your sources for this are, at best, 
>fabrications.

At "best", Yale?  Pray tell, what would be "worst"?  Fight fair.
_________________________________________________________

"Just think of the tragedy of teaching children not to doubt."
- Clarence Darrow

David Thomas
CODOH (http://www.codoh.com/)


From dvdthomas@aol.com Tue Aug 20 14:53:05 PDT 1996
Article: 58484 of alt.revisionism
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From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re:   Wieder mit dem
Date: 20 Aug 1996 11:05:26 -0400
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***NELE ABELS WRITES (he thinks to J.F. Beaulieu):

Mr. Abels' comments are preceded by a single >.


>And now the guy who has forgotten most of his German really puts
>his foot into it.
>
>Jean-Francois Beaulieu  wrote:
>
>>>   I refer now to the evacuation of the Jews, the EXTERMINATION* of the
>>>   Jewish PEOPLE*. This is one of those things that is easily said:
"the
>>>  Jewish PEOPLE* are being EXTERMINATED*," says every Party member,
>>>   "quite true, it's part of our plans, the ELIMINATION* of the Jews,
>>>   EXTERMINATION*, we're doing it."

and...

>Beaulieu's translation points out to everybody that a meaning apart
>from "to kill everybody" is meant...
>
>This manipulation is quite cunning, I have to admit that, but still
>not perfect. I'm sure he could lie more effectively if he tried.

and...

>Field day? Bwahahaha! The only thing I'm seeing is that yet another time
>a "revisionist" has been caught lying and manipulating - but not
cunningly
>enough not to be caught. Yes, you are right, revisionists _are_ unable to
>shoot straight. Oh, lest I forget, "machen wir" is not to be translated
as
>"that's what we are doing" here, but as "let's do it" or "here we go!"
>or something like that. Is this Mr. Beaulieu's "increadible easy
>translation"?

and...

>>An interesting realization is that in the modern dictionaries the
>>translations used above are, for the most part, tagged on at the end
>>of the definitions as special interpretations of certain figurative
>>language. ...indeed very interesting!
>
>Very interesting indeed. My Cobild-Collins dictionary (one of the better
>dictionaries on the market) says to "ausrotten":
>
> vt sep: to wipe out; Wanzen etc.: to destroy; Tiere, *Volk*
> auch: to exterminate; Religion, Ideen auch: to stamp out, to
> eradicate.
>
>No mentioning of "special interpretations or certain figurative
language"...
>What Mr. Beaulieu finds so surprising is a phenomenon every linguist, and
>in fact every educated person is aquainted with.


And you, sir, call yourself a "linguist"???  You rant at greater length
than
shown here at "Mr. Beaulieu" when you are in fact pontificating over a mix
of quotes from Bjorn Conrad and Jamie McCarthy, who were arguing AGAINST
one another.  Yet your great grasp of language couldn't pick out that
fact,
which is not only obvious, it was explicitly stated in the post quoted.
Further, Mr. Beaulieu has a very distinctive style of English which it
doesn't
take a linguist to recognize, AND YOU DO NOT QUOTE HIM ONE TIME IN YOUR
LENGTHY DIATRIBE SUPPOSEDLY DIRECTED AT HIM!!!

>Apart from that it is rather difficult to find a single quotation by
Himmler
>that does not support my understanding of "ausrotten". I wonder whether
>Mr. Beaulieu would care to offer such a quotation rather than falsifying
>existing ones which show the opposite?

Perhaps that question is best answered by yourself.

>Hahaha, watt hebbt wi lacht!

Your zealotry, my friend, renders you not an educated person or a
linguist,
but an ordinary fool.  I don't say that last in a personal sense, just 
as a description of your silly actions here.  I would be more polite had
you
not attempted to be snide to the point of viciousness.  You've inserted
your
foot so far into your mouth that it has emerged from your rectum, where it
no
doubt will seriously interfere with your self-ascribed linguistic
abilities.

>Field day? Bwahahaha! The only thing I'm seeing is....

Very little, obviously.  Could I interest you in a fine old bridge that's
for sale?
It's located in Brooklyn.

Regards,
David Thomas
_________________________________________________________

"Just think of the tragedy of teaching children not to doubt."
- Clarence Darrow

David Thomas
CODOH (http://www.codoh.com/)


From dvdthomas@aol.com Wed Aug 21 07:07:14 PDT 1996
Article: 58684 of alt.revisionism
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From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "rich graves" [and Shakespeare, and racist kooks]
Date: 20 Aug 1996 10:20:06 -0400
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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>> Rich Graves wrote:
>> 
>> >Besides, thou sottish tickle-brained turlygod, Antigone and The Birds
>> >expressed similar sentiments, predating Sturluson by a millenium. So
>> >there.
>> 
>> Now you got me confused.  If Antigone and/or The Birds are his sottish
>> tickle-brained turlygod(s), then it should by "thy" and not "thou."  On
>> the other hand, if your correspondent is the sottish tickle-brained
>> turlygod, then it flies (but even The Birds couldn't fly for a
millenium).
>>  This is potentially the most serious breach of outmoded grammar since
>> that fifties tear-jerker delivered as one of the Twelve Commandments of
>> Love that "Thy shalt never love another."
>
>Note, readers of alt.revisionism, DvdThomas pedantically criticized my
>grammar, proving himself an ass.

Jesus, Rich, it was a joke.  Are you smiley-face dependent or something?
Or maybe taking yourself a bit too seriously?  I thought your
Shakespearean
takeoff was funny, that's all.
_________________________________________________________

"Just think of the tragedy of teaching children not to doubt."
- Clarence Darrow

David Thomas
CODOH (http://www.codoh.com/)


From dvdthomas@aol.com Wed Aug 21 16:05:39 PDT 1996
Article: 58769 of alt.revisionism
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From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re:   Wieder mit dem
Date: 21 Aug 1996 11:02:40 -0400
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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I made a brief response to a personal attack leveled at me by Dan Keren,
but there's one part of it I'd like to expand on.

>From  a Dan Keren post to David Thomas:

>You stink, my friend. Or maybe you just suffer from the same
>kind of mental illness which, as I recall, you said runs in
>your family.


He's referring to a post made here a couple of years ago when someone
compared "denial" to schizophrenia in a sneering way.  My response then
was that I did not like to see schizophrenia used as a perjorative--first,
because it is insensitive, and second, because my mother suffers from that
condition.

Dan, mental illness is not, so far as we know, hereditary.  So your
statement about it "running in my family" belongs right up there with such
nuggets of popular wisdom as, "All blacks are stupid."  Or your own
favorite, "Anybody who doesn't fit my approved profile in this forum is a
Nazi."

Also, the origins of my mother's illness are unique to her.  A brief bit
of family background will clarify that.

My father fought the Germans in WWII, through the entire North African and
Italian campaigns.  He was with a division that saw more continuous days
of combat than any other American unit in the European theater.  He
returned home in 1945 with a case of what I believe was then called "shell
shock" or "battle fatigue".  Since it was not completely debilitating, he
received little sympathy or assistance.  In those days the attitude was
that sure, war is hell, but real men get over it and get on with their
lives.

This caused great strain in the marriage.  My mother grew increasingly
distraught at the apparent breakup of the family but struggled to keep it
together, to the point of following him to another state when he tried to
go somewhere and crawl into a corner.

As if this weren't enough, one night at a dark bus stop outside Dallas,
Texas she was assaulted and brutally raped.  This insult to her psyche
proved too much to bear.  Her mental condition deteriorated, and after
months of increasing depression she was hospitalized in a catatonic state.
 Asylums in 1949 were of the "snake pit" ilk, where patients were thrown
into wards together.  It is now recognized that this can be very
debilitating for some.  She was released shortly, but the improvement was
only a lull in the storm.  She suffered a complete psychotic break,
becoming delusional and paranoid, though her violence was limited to
breaking windows to "let the electricity out."  Back into the state system
she went, and my father fled.

A new treatment that was all the rage was suggested to my grandmother, who
approved the authoritative advice.  A prefontal lobotomy. (As with
Rosemary Kennedy?)

Our family is a stubborn lot and my strong-willed mother proved an
exception to the rule.  Instead of becoming a quiet vegetable with no
personality, her delusions continued, and a good portion of her
personality and memory survived this ultimate assault.  After ten years of
entrapment, pumped on horse tranquilizers, her release was arranged by one
of my aunts who has that good old Texas "Don't you tell _me_ what I can
and can't do, mister!" attitudes that it took to penetrate the
"protective" bureaucracy.

Mom still wrestles with her demons, nothing seems to be able to stop the
voices.  But she controls it rather well and lives by herself, fiercely
independent and very distrustful of doctors.  She's in another state,
refuses to consider moving nearer to me, but we get together several times
a year.

Yes, there is mental illness in my family, Dan.  We've met it head on, so
to speak, and conquered it, or at least fought it to a draw, something I'm
proud of.  So if you seek to insult me, you'll have to find another
avenue.  But I don't think you're going to be able to reach up far enough
to touch me, and that's not because I occupy the heights.  You act
sometimes as if you have a lock on both humanity and suffering.  You're
going to have to work at the former, and the latter you know as little
about as I.

Regards,
David Thomas
_________________________________________________________

"Just think of the tragedy of teaching children not to doubt."
- Clarence Darrow

David Thomas
CODOH (http://www.codoh.com/)


From dvdthomas@aol.com Thu Aug 22 06:45:18 PDT 1996
Article: 58893 of alt.revisionism
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From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re:   Wieder mit dem
Date: 21 Aug 1996 00:16:51 -0400
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Dan Keren writes:

>And you, nazi-boy...

>What is really despicable is a lying Nazi coward such as yourself...

>You stink, my friend. Or maybe you just suffer from the same
>kind of mental illness which, as I recall, you said runs in
>your family.

Daniel, all I can say is that I'm blessed not to have my mind infested
with the poison you're cultivating in your own.  No matter how much I may
disagree with your utterances, I'd never stoop to this level.  Hope things
get better for you, and I mean that sincerely.  No hard feelings because I
don't take stuff like this seriously anymore.

DT
_________________________________________________________

"Just think of the tragedy of teaching children not to doubt."
- Clarence Darrow

David Thomas
CODOH (http://www.codoh.com/)


From dvdthomas@aol.com Thu Aug 22 15:42:19 PDT 1996
Article: 58957 of alt.revisionism
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From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: DvdThomas: The HUMANE Nazi (Re:   Wieder mit dem)
Date: 22 Aug 1996 14:04:17 -0400
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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Dan Keren wrote:

>I'm giving you a chance to prove you're not a lying Nazi 
>bastard. Go for it, coward.

I will not respond to this kind of abusive trash posted by Mr. Keren or
anyone else.

David Thomas
_________________________________________________________

"Just think of the tragedy of teaching children not to doubt."
- Clarence Darrow

David Thomas
CODOH (http://www.codoh.com/)


From dvdthomas@aol.com Thu Aug 22 18:00:57 PDT 1996
Article: 58973 of alt.revisionism
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From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ehrlich translating: Over 20 mistakes in 6 simple sentences (was RE: Saugervermoegens...)
Date: 21 Aug 1996 10:03:02 -0400
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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Ah, yes, Nele the linguist, this time taking on Ehrlich.

Instead of giving an extended litany of nitpicking, Nele, why not just
give your own translation side by side with Ehrlich's and let the English
speaking readers decide if there's a significant difference.  (If you've
already done so, please forgive the suggestion, I just stepped in on this
thread as it exists--one message.)  Would save a lot of words, though it
does give you less chance to show off some dubious comprehension skills.

Perhaps you could argue with German Rudolf about what Leuchter and you do
or do not know, languages be damned.
_________________________________________________________

"Just think of the tragedy of teaching children not to doubt."
- Clarence Darrow

David Thomas
CODOH (http://www.codoh.com/)


From dvdthomas@aol.com Fri Aug 23 19:19:48 PDT 1996
Article: 59241 of alt.revisionism
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From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re:   Wieder mit dem
Date: 23 Aug 1996 20:04:12 -0400
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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Dan Keren wrote:

>The suffering of the Jews, for
>you, is something to joke about.

That's offensive, untrue and without basis.

>Ha-ha. Stark's testimony.
>You find it funny, don't you.

It would help a little if you told me what you're referring to.

>I am very sorry to hear about your mother's tragedy. Please
>accept my apology for what I hinted regarding her.

No apology to me needed, but thank you for offering one.

I don't find anyone's suffering funny, not even that of a rabid or
contemptible creature that needs to be put out of its misery or removed
>from  existence for the safety of others.  The lowest form of human
existence is that which indulges itself in an orgy of persecution.  Were
there elements of the German nation that did this to Jews and others? 
Yes, assuredly so.  Do I support or excuse them in the slightest?  I do
not, have not and will not.  If my suppositions about gassing chambers are
proven to be incorrect, I'll switch to the role you're playing and try to
do it with a bit more realization that those I'm talking to are also human
beings, not some projected embodiement of ultimate evil.

David Thomas
_________________________________________________________

"Just think of the tragedy of teaching children not to doubt."
- Clarence Darrow

David Thomas
CODOH (http://www.codoh.com/)


From dvdthomas@aol.com Sat Aug 24 08:18:21 PDT 1996
Article: 59351 of alt.revisionism
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From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re:   Wieder mit dem
Date: 22 Aug 1996 14:15:00 -0400
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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Jamie McCarthy wrote:

>Ahem.  In Mr. Abels' article <4va4lj$iq4@surz03fi.HRZ.Uni-Marburg.DE>,
>DThomas, which you are replying to, there is not a single word written
>by me.
>
>Yes, Mr. Abels should have noticed that Beaulieu (a Holocaust-denier)
>was quoting Bjorn Conrad (a Holocaust-denier) rather than making it all
>up himself.  But on the other hand he's innocent of your accusation of
>taking a "mix of quotes."
>
>Thus, none of the preceding _or_ the following was warranted:

Beaulieu's original message contained a mix of quotes, as did Abel's
reply.  I did err in describing the mix.  Despite Beaulieu's comment

>**** old email from Jamie McCarthy, which was also post publically,
>      so I feel free to use it in this case   ******

there do not appear to be quotes from you that I can spot on second
examination.  There are, however, a couple from Beaulieu, invalidating my
comment that there was not a single line from him, but reinstating my "mix
of quotes" comment.  It was and is difficult to separate who is being
quoted in both the posts being discussed.
_________________________________________________________

"Just think of the tragedy of teaching children not to doubt."
- Clarence Darrow

David Thomas
CODOH (http://www.codoh.com/)


From dvdthomas@aol.com Sat Aug 24 13:29:56 PDT 1996
Article: 59539 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!EU.net!usenet2.news.uk.psi.net!uknet!usenet1.news.uk.psi.net!uknet!psinntp!psinntp!portc01.blue.aol.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re:   Wieder mit dem
Date: 23 Aug 1996 20:07:43 -0400
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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Jamie McCarthy wrote:

>> You find it funny, don't you.
>
>Yes, he does.  I particularly liked his mocking of Hans Stark's
>testimony:  "Grabner made me do it!"  Though I didn't really understand
>what he was getting at.  Was he saying there was something unbelievable
>about this testimony?

Now I understand what Dan has been referring to.  I don't have the post at
hand, don't keep them, but I recall it.  It had to do with my responding
to criticisms of people who post multiple copies of the same text, and
that being a violation of newsgroup rules.  I pointed out that Dan
routinely does that and said something to the effect that "I feel as if I
know Grabner personally by now."  I think the phrase you quote was part of
the title, which you saw at regular intervals here, and that was why the
reference.

This is laughing at suffering?  That's one hell of a stretch.

Sorry, but you'll have to dig deeper than that to pin something on me for
which I have no conscious storage space.  I suppose that at the brain stem
level we all revert to crocodile behavior, but not in my cortex, mister.

Regards,
David Thomas
_________________________________________________________

"Just think of the tragedy of teaching children not to doubt."
- Clarence Darrow

David Thomas
CODOH (http://www.codoh.com/)


From dvdthomas@aol.com Thu Aug 29 10:50:58 PDT 1996
Article: 60822 of alt.revisionism
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From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "The Seekers" and the effect of name-calling
Date: 29 Aug 1996 10:12:46 -0400
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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Reply-To: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas)
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com

This text is from a discussion group which I understand is considered to
be public.  A few people here will readily recognize the source, which is
unimportant.  The post is genuine.  It is from a Jewish participant who
before this had not entered the discussion, at least not recently.  I have
x'd out names because I still find it distasteful to quote email, public
or not.  This message sheds a lot of light on the subject of this thread,
and the dynamics of this newsgroup.

***********
Argument for Argument's Sake -- Part 1 of 2

"I've been monitoring the discussion on gggggggg for some time now, and it
seems to me that I can make some constructive comments.

I have a great respect for Gentiles, and I am somewhat estranged from many
of
my co-religionists at this time because of the public relations effort by
some of our leaders to tell the American public serious falsehoods about
the
Serbian peoples.  At least 30 members of my family were saved from death
or
imprisonment through the efforts of Righteous Gentiles in Serbia who,
although they were Christian, took great pains to rescue us during the
second
world war.  Considerable discussion has taken place within the American
Jewish community about the contemporary (and in my view, misguided) effort
by
important Jewish leaders in America to blacken the name of the Serbs for
certain public policy purposes and to disregard their friendliness during
the
war.

So let me shed some light on the holocaust discussion.

You Gentiles need to understand that the holocaust discussion takes place
on
three levels in public.  (There are more in private.)  The first level is
the
factual, provable, documented basis that any court of law would accept.
 Lamentably, there is a lack of solid evidence and unambiguous
documentation
about many of the facts that the world is implored to accept uncritically
having to do with the holocaust.  Especially Germanics, but most all
Gentiles, think the discussion is only on this level, and cannot
understand
all the other verbal pyrotechnics that are embodied in verbal and written
responses in this discussion.

The second level is the abusive discourse that neurotically occurs
whenever
necessary to rebut any challenge to the truth or falsehood of any aspect
of
the holocaust.  This level has somehow entered the contemporary American
Jewish psyche which then frequently finds it compulsory to attack any and
all
challenges to ANY aspect of the holocaust, no matter how ludicrous the
aspect
may be.  The ferocity of this rebuttal technique is off-putting to many
Germanics and other Gentiles who are seeking to discuss the issue on the
first level, and think that the discussion should be carried on in a
scholarly, thoughtful, Germanic way with give-and-take and fair play on
all
points, and with all parties reaching a consensus on points previously in
dispute.

The third level is one that Gentiles find hard to understand, but it might
be
possible to call it a matter of style, art, procedure, sport or
gamesmanship.
 To understand the style that is seen by most American Jews as fitting and
related to the seriousness of the holocaust, you need to understand the
term
"pilpul" which is usually regarded as a kind of argumentation.  It was
well
put by Isaac Unterman in his book, "The Talmud," at pages 34 and 35:

**********
Continued......
_________________________________________________________

"Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you mad."


David Thomas
CODOH (http://www.codoh.com/)


From dvdthomas@aol.com Thu Aug 29 10:50:59 PDT 1996
Article: 60859 of alt.revisionism
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From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "The Seekers" and the effect of name-calling
Date: 29 Aug 1996 11:04:15 -0400
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This text is from a discussion group which I understand is considered to
be public.  A few people here will readily recognize the source, which is
unimportant.  The post is genuine.  It is from a Jewish participant who
before this had not entered the discussion, at least not recently.  I have
x'd out names because I still find it distasteful to quote email, public
or not.  This message sheds a lot of light on the subject of this thread,
and the dynamics of this newsgroup.

***********
Argument for Argument's Sake -- Part 2 of 2


"'Now, you just give me your thesis and I will immediately destroy it'
--- this is the characteristic essence of the Talmudic intellectual
sport, a sport which requires keenness and logical precision.  The
eagerness for this intellectual sport and the desire to gain the
admiration of one's fellows have brought about the habit on the part of
many
students and scholars of avoiding the study of the Talmud in ordinary and
regular succession, and of choosing special subjects or hypotheses under
the new interpretation(s)...

     "Whoever has not observed two rabbis or scholars conducting a
discussion
on some subject never saw a mental game between two intellectual-artists
played on the highest logical level.

     "The Torah is learned through the intellectual exercise of the
scholars.
 Whoever is able to manipulate logic, whoever has a keen mind and can
bring
forth a new interpretation or new reasons for an old interpretation may be
compared to a rich man who has all sorts of money, silver and gold; he may
also be compared to one who sells only the best of oil and never lacks for
a
customer.

     "The Hebrew word for argument is 'Pilpul' and stems from the word for
pepper.  And, indeed, the Talmudic arguments are as pungent and strong
as pepper.  The chief method is to take a sentence or some subject,
analyze it into its many parts, and then to compare these parts with
other analogous sentences or subjects on the basis of language, content,
logic, etc."

When Germanics and Gentiles are on one side of a debate about an aspect of
the holocaust and a person skilled in pilpulism like RRRRRRRR is on the
other side, there is no contest.  The Germanic student is looking for fact
and logic, and an end to the argument.  The pilpulist is looking for fact
and
logic, too, but is also absolutely committed to avoid agreeing with any
criticism of any aspect of the holocaust, and is also delighting in the
swing
of the argument, its rhythm, its glitter, and its rhyme.  Thus you see
there
is no contest.  You Germanics will never win an argument with a pilpulist
like RRRRRRRRR because the contest is taking place on too many levels,
only one of which you are aware of and interested in.

It is tempting for some of you Gentiles to try to reduce RRRRRRRRR's
pilpulisms to logic, but he can always leap ahead of you due to his
superior
training.  Until you can address the holocaust on all three levels, you
will
never settle any aspect of any debate about it.

MW
Los Gatos

End
********
_________________________________________________________

"Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you mad."


David Thomas
CODOH (http://www.codoh.com/)

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