From dvdthomas@aol.com Wed Jun 5 01:18:53 PDT 1996 Article: 41007 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!izzy.net!aanews.merit.net!news.gmi.edu!msunews!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e2a.gnn.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Prima Facie Extermination Date: 4 Jun 1996 13:03:25 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 12 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4p1q8t$2fe@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4ouqbv$m4g@hackberry.zilker.net> Reply-To: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com Mike Curtis wrote: >Some of us aren't confused any more. Some of us till don't >get what your doing. I know what you are doing. I have no >doubts. Absolute surety, when it's the real thing, is of comforting value. Please share. _________________________________________________________ "The kind of person who always insists on his way of seeing things can never learn anything from anyone." - Tao Te Ching, 24 From dvdthomas@aol.com Tue Jun 4 19:33:18 PDT 1996 Article: 40965 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e2a.gnn.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Ehrlich Date: 4 Jun 1996 13:08:37 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 16 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4p1qil$2hf@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4otppv$cq3@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com M. Giwer wrote: >Very good. Now for the second part ritual sexual mutilation is >common among many people. It runs something like 25% in the US. Perhaps the word is "did" run, I believe the frequency of circumcising newborns is on the decline in the US and has been for some years. The rationale used for years was that statistics indicated that it reduced the incidence of certain not overly common types of cancer. Subsequent investigations seem to show that basic hygeine techniques are just as effective in this regard. _________________________________________________________ "The kind of person who always insists on his way of seeing things can never learn anything from anyone." - Tao Te Ching, 24 From dvdthomas@aol.com Thu Jun 6 06:56:18 PDT 1996 Article: 41308 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news2.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e2a.gnn.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Lying about atomic bombing and Japanese surrender Date: 5 Jun 1996 22:01:18 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 20 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4p5e5e$8s6@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4p4fj5$26h@casaba.srv.cs.cmu.edu> Reply-To: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com J.M. Ockerbloom writes: >The only author I can think of that's proposed a number as high as you >give is David Irving, a darling of the "Holocaust is a myth" set, and >someone considered by most historians to be at best a questionable source. This is, at best, an uninformed statement. The conflict that exists between David Irving and the trolls of academia has to do with his interpretation of collected facts and figures, not the details themselves. Irving is widely acknowledged, even by his severe critics, to have collected, read and summarized more documents from the scattered National Socialist archives than anyone else in the world. If you choose to try to dismiss a portion of his work, please be honest and accurate about which portion. Thank you. _________________________________________________________ "The kind of person who always insists on his way of seeing things can never learn anything from anyone." - Tao Te Ching, 24 From dvdthomas@aol.com Fri Jun 7 07:12:03 PDT 1996 Article: 41516 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news2.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e2a.gnn.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: The Ultimate Extermination System Date: 6 Jun 1996 17:47:40 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 15 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4p7jls$acr@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4oolv4$jtv@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU> Reply-To: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com Rich Green wrote: >I agree with >you that CO2 is not a Bronsted-Lowry acid. It is, however, a Lewis >acide, but that's beside the point. OK, I'll buy that. And after reading this far in the thread I agree with you that it is irrelevant, except that referring to CO2 as an acid is about as clear as referring to water as an acid, which in a sense it is, but..... _________________________________________________________ "The kind of person who always insists on his way of seeing things can never learn anything from anyone." - Tao Te Ching, 24 From dvdthomas@aol.com Fri Jun 7 07:12:04 PDT 1996 Article: 41566 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news2.bctel.net!imci2!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e2a.gnn.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: The Ultimate Extermination System Date: 6 Jun 1996 18:05:45 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 7 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4p7knp$ath@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4p21rd$bt8@arl-news-svc-3.compuserve.com> Reply-To: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com Having now read all 36 messages in this thread, it's obvious that CO2 has little to do with it. Pardon my intrusion into a dung-flinging contest. _________________________________________________________ "The kind of person who always insists on his way of seeing things can never learn anything from anyone." - Tao Te Ching, 24 From dvdthomas@aol.com Fri Jun 7 07:12:04 PDT 1996 Article: 41578 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news2.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e2a.gnn.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: The Ultimate Extermination System Date: 6 Jun 1996 17:34:25 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 20 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4p7it1$a2a@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4o4jnl$234@hackberry.zilker.net> Reply-To: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com Mike Curtis wrote: >>>> But since it is an acid, it has nothing to do with quantity. >>>>Whatever would react would "stick" as you so quaintly put it.--M. Giwer > >>>With a strong acid, certainly. Prussic acid is weaker than CO2. --M. Bilik > >> CO2 is not an acid.--M. Giwer > >He didn't say it was, idiot.--M. Curtis Sure seems like he did. He's saying the CO2 is weaker than a strong acid but stronger than Prussic acid. What other conclusion could be drawn? _________________________________________________________ "The kind of person who always insists on his way of seeing things can never learn anything from anyone." - Tao Te Ching, 24 From dvdthomas@aol.com Fri Jun 7 07:12:05 PDT 1996 Article: 41579 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news2.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e2a.gnn.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: The Ultimate Extermination System Date: 6 Jun 1996 17:36:52 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 24 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4p7j1k$a4b@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4ogr4k$5gq@cnn.cc.biu.ac.il> Reply-To: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com Richard Schultz wrote: Matt Giwer (mgiwer@ix.netcom.com) wrote: : rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU (Richard J. Green) wrote: : >Would Mr. Giwer consider CO2 dissolved in water an acid? Yes or no? : That is not under discussion, deceitful one. The discussion is : CO2, a gas, as you can plainly see. It doesn't matter whether it's in the gas phase or in solution: CO2 is an acid. Sorry Charlie. ----- Richard Schultz schultr@ashur.cc.biu.ac.il ****** How does CO2 achieve this status without a proton to donate? _________________________________________________________ "The kind of person who always insists on his way of seeing things can never learn anything from anyone." - Tao Te Ching, 24 From dvdthomas@aol.com Fri Jun 7 07:12:06 PDT 1996 Article: 41590 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news2.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!imci5!pull-feed.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e2a.gnn.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: The Ultimate Extermination System Date: 6 Jun 1996 18:02:05 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 16 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4p7kgt$aqe@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4ora6n$ndk@cnn.cc.biu.ac.il> Reply-To: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com Richard Schultz wrote: >Every time I think "he can't possibly produce something that will better >prove his complete stupidity," I am proven wrong. Asking "what is the >pH of CO2 Come on now, be fair about it. The question obviously intended to point out that CO2 in the gaseous state has no pH (puissance hydrogen) value. Since acid concentrations are commonly related to pH values, the interpretation is that CO2 is not a Bronsted acid, nor would it typically be called an acid in common useage. That's all. _________________________________________________________ "The kind of person who always insists on his way of seeing things can never learn anything from anyone." - Tao Te Ching, 24 From dvdthomas@aol.com Sat Jun 8 12:41:48 PDT 1996 Article: 41829 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!news.nstn.ca!news.dal.ca!torn!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e2a.gnn.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Dresden? Date: 8 Jun 1996 02:30:40 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 33 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4pb6mg$op0@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4pa2fs$qgs@hackberry.zilker.net> Reply-To: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com Mike Curtis wrote: >>As opposed to conventionalist scholarship, which would go something like >>this: > >Now that you'eve read my response to this, you know understand that >what you presented isn't even "conventionalist" history. If you want >to poke fun, I suggest you begin by backing up your assertions with >checkable documentation. I suggest you START answering requests >concerning where your unsubstantiated opinions come from. I suggest >you behave like the historian you claim to be. Let's see some >intellect that puts primary documentation with a thesis. Otherwise you >are just another one of those trivializers with nothing much to offer >other than opinion. > >The above is my opinion and it is backed up by your unsubstantiated >posts to this board. Compadre, my own opinion is that you would benefit first from dwelling on how many pounds are in a ton, and then checking the loaded weight of the largest aircraft in the world, circa 1996. After that, pull your head out of your behind, clean out your ears, and open your mind. Then and only then will you be prepared to participate in something besides the best send-up I have seen in many a long day. This sequence has been damn near priceless, and more revealing than a little about what unwarranted prejudice, preconceptions, and ass-umptions do to folks. Peace. And thanks to Ken McVay for making this all possible. :-) _________________________________________________________ "The kind of person who always insists on his way of seeing things can never learn anything from anyone." - Tao Te Ching, 24 From dvdthomas@aol.com Sat Jun 8 20:32:02 PDT 1996 Article: 41954 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news2.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e2a.gnn.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Dresden? Date: 8 Jun 1996 02:40:29 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 92 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4pb78t$ovl@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4pa1ua$qdh@hackberry.zilker.net> Reply-To: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com Message 1 of 2. This may be a repeat, first try appeared to bounce. From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) Reply-To: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Dresden? Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) References: <4pa1ua$qdh@hackberry.zilker.net> I wasn't going to participate in this tasteless thread, but recent circumstances have shown me the error of my sanctimonious ways. Mike Curtis wrote: >"Therefore 300,000,000 tons of bombs were dropped on Dresden" is >pretty darn weak without actual RAF documents saying how what plane >was loaded with what to go where. Pretty darn weak is understating the case in one sense, right on in another. It was proven months before, in the Pacific campaign when B-29s first came into use, that concentrations of incendiaries of as little as 100,000 tons in a single aircraft were prone to spontaneous combustion, particularly in warm weather. So the idea that one plane could accomodate 200,000 tons safely, or at all, is indeed ludicrous. >This information is from what source and where can the affidavits be >seen. What trial was this? This should be casual even to the obvious observer. They were incendiary bombs. It therefore was the oft alluded to Trial by Fire. (See "Loki's My Name, Fire's My Game," Viking Press, pp. 69-63) The affidavits are thought to have been destroyed by the evidence. >>During the trial, it was not permitted to question the validity of the >>charge, the evidence entered into the record, or the lack of forensic >>evidence. > >The source of this view point is? The decedent defendants. >> In any case, there are numerous witnesses who confirm the dreadful >>action: although they differ in many respects they agree on the central >>charge -- Dresden was Bombed. > >No one seems to be denying it was bombed. Awe contrairie, mon ami. Ken McVay stated: >And how do you know (1) how many died at this "Dresden," and >(2) that there was such a place as "Dresden" during this >so-called "war?" > >The Dresden Museum itself cites 35,000 victims. You cite >100,000. Therefore there was no bombing. Mike Curtis continues his reply to Erhlich: >Below is the same stupid >conjecture used about the bombs above. Be very careful when slinging shit at random--it splatters. >>As to the population of the city, it is calculated that if 1 train >>carrying 1,000 people to the city of Dresden arrived every hour for one >>year the population of the city would be 8,760,000. But in 1946 the >>population of the city was only 560,000. Therefore, 8,200,000 died in the >>bombing of Dresden. This is confirmed by an analysis of train records, >>which show that, in fact, in 1943 _one train arrived every hour_. Of >>course, trains also left at the same rate, but we know that they didn't >>have any people on them. >> >>So much for the destruction of Dresden. > >So much for any evidence or proof at all. You call yourself an >historian. I don't think I want to know who the hell you are. Well, wishes do come true. It's obvious that you don't have a clue, nor are you likely to. I myself always emphasize the 'H' and therefore would (and oftimes do) say, "*a* hhhiissstorian," but what the hell do I know either, eh? ;-))) And in closing, let us never forget the credo of the Agnostic--"Can you believe this shit!?" _________________________________________________________ "The kind of person who always insists on his way of seeing things can never learn anything from anyone." - Tao Te Ching, 24 From dvdthomas@aol.com Sun Jun 9 21:21:45 PDT 1996 Article: 42340 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news2.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.wildstar.net!news.sdsmt.edu!nntp.uac.net!cancer.vividnet.com!hunter.premier.net!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e2a.gnn.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Dresden? Date: 9 Jun 1996 12:58:34 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 12 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4pevrq$r7j@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <31B972E4.2B0F@rio.com> Reply-To: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com Chuck Ferree wrote: >The worst part with a bomb load of >this magnitude, was when you finally found your target (s) and >released all that weight, the airplane did thirty consecutive loops. And still dizzy, after all these years! :-) _________________________________________________________ "The kind of person who always insists on his way of seeing things can never learn anything from anyone." - Tao Te Ching, 24 From dvdthomas@aol.com Sun Jun 9 21:21:47 PDT 1996 Article: 42350 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news2.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.wildstar.net!news.sdsmt.edu!news.mid.net!mr.net!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: the undisciplined Wehrmacht Date: 9 Jun 1996 09:23:51 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 57 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4pej97$l39@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4pcsa4$aic@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> Reply-To: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com Ken McVay wrote: >>Um, most take some issue here in that, *in general*, the >>Wehrmacht was the better army compared to just about >>everyone in the war. Analysis of WW2 battles that were >>made to help develope a numerical battle simulator model >>by Col. Dupuis of the US Army indicates that the average >>German unit was 1.5 times more effective than an equivalent >>American unit and 2.5 times more effective than a Soviet >>one. Even when they were losing heavily in late 44 and >>45 to the Red Army they still had a 1.5 to 1.8 advantage. > >I'd find that impossible to believe, with regard to the >Wehrmacht on the eastern front (he himself makes a distinction >between the eastern front and other areas). As Bartov points out, the >Wehrmacht quickly degenerated into an ill-disguised mob (my >phrase, not his). The jacket notes point out that the Germans >themselves executed nearly 15,000 of their own troops in an >attempt to maintain discipline. That suggests that they >weren't completely successful. I think in making the assessment it is important to distinguish between regular German troops and the various units made up of conscripted or volunteer foreign nationals, many of whom were used in Russia. The Eastern front was a near certain death assignment in the last two years of the war, and in fact many individual men were assigned there as a form of punishment. The hopelessness of the campaign became apparent to some in the winter of 42-43, and general knowledge shortly after that. It stands to reason that discipline would crumble in what was fast becoming a mass suicidal action. As a non-scientific anecdote, my father was with the American 34th through the entire Italian campaign. They fought German regulars who were outmanned, outgunned and had no air support. Despite these handicaps he said that they fought fiercely and bravely, earning certainly not the affection but definitely the respect of those who drove them at great cost up the peninsula. He has commented that the discussion of relative abilities of the two forces was sometimes discussed, and the prevailing opinion was to thank God they didn't have to oppose them on a basis of equal strength and equipment. That German units like the submarine service could sustain losses on the order of 70% (I'm not sure of the exact figure) and still operate with high morale indicates an unusual degree of mental toughness. I make these comments purely in relation to the subject of individual fighting skill and resolve on the field of battle. Japanese troops, while vilified and ridiculed to a greater degree than the Germans (goofy looking little slant-eyed nips), also showed remarkable tenacity, albeit with less capable leadership. How many large combat units will willingly fight to the death, nearly to a man? And a closing thought on that subject, how in hell did the Russians get all those poor bastards to do the human wave bit into the German guns? What a nightmare campaign that had to be! _________________________________________________________ "The kind of person who always insists on his way of seeing things can never learn anything from anyone." - Tao Te Ching, 24 From dvdthomas@aol.com Mon Jun 10 12:17:18 PDT 1996 Article: 42468 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news2.bctel.net!imci2!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e2a.gnn.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: `Honest' in German & a parallel Date: 10 Jun 1996 13:09:25 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 26 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4phks5$mp4@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4pbmvg$j6d@atlas.uniserve.com> Reply-To: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com Oh, btw, Mr. Ehrlich. A friend of mine recently subscribed to AOL. Subscribers to AOL, as you know, have the privilege of finding the name behind the nick. He let me know what yours is. Now, I woudn't dream of publishing it here (because I wouldn't want to see your "cobbling" efforts diverted by those predatory net babes whom you fear might disturb the equilibrium of your marriage). But I do find it strange, since if I recall correctly you did tell us that you _are_ an historian, that a cursory net search didn't turn up anything that you've published. Then again, I recall that you did make reference, in at least one post, to some "ghost writing" that you've done. Are all your published works "ghosts", Mr. Ehrlich? hro ======================= Hilary Ostrov *********** Now there's a methodology to take pride in. Sweetness and light. _________________________________________________________ "The kind of person who always insists on his way of seeing things can never learn anything from anyone." - Tao Te Ching, 24 From dvdthomas@aol.com Mon Jun 10 12:17:19 PDT 1996 Article: 42469 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news2.bctel.net!imci2!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e2a.gnn.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: `Honest' in German & a parallel Date: 10 Jun 1996 13:42:13 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 34 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4phmpl$ne4@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4pfo80$40h@news.enter.net> Reply-To: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com Yale Edeiken wrote (regarding Ehrlich606): >The fact >that someone who is basically a decent person who presents his opinions >honestly and without bigotry cannot participate... Thank you for the entirety of your remarks on this subject, you hit on an important point. I have long thought it an onerous mistake to create a tone in a newsgroup (whose avowed purpose is to exchange information) that serves to drive away people who are put off by the abrasiveness, without regard to their philosophy or what they may add to the discussion. People, such as Ms. Ostrov, who do this may have what in their minds are good motives for using the method of personal attack, but the results of such activities are counterproductive, antisocial, and the kinds of things generally associated with brutes and mobs. I've read the sarcasms about inordinate sensitivities, and the silly rationalizations for invective. They are nothing more than excuses for self-serving boorishness that destroys any possibility of legitimate discussion and furtherance of understanding. What a sad state this is. Of course, it does go right along with the phantom image of playing to a hidden audience of gullible college-age lurkers. That characterization would have gotten a horse-laugh and several raised middle fingers from the many independently minded people I met in my college days. Have things really changed that much? I don't think so. I hope not. David Thomas _________________________________________________________ "The kind of person who always insists on his way of seeing things can never learn anything from anyone." - Tao Te Ching, 24 From dbtgthomas@aol.com Tue Jun 11 06:44:44 PDT 1996 Article: 42549 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news2.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!realtime.net!news.mindspring.com!cssun.mathcs.emory.edu!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e2a.gnn.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: dbtgthomas@aol.com (DbtgThomas) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: The Holocaust; Six million dead Date: 11 Jun 1996 00:07:07 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 16 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4pirdb$86r@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4pgrjm$emo@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: dbtgthomas@aol.com (DbtgThomas) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com Ambrose wrote: >Many believe Germany could have won >the war if they had not diverted so many resources to murder Jews. That's a curious theory. Who are some of the many that believe this implausible claim. It won't pencil out, won't even come close. Sounds good though. ----------------------------------------------------------- "What is a good man but a bad man's teacher? What is a bad man but a good man's job? If you do not understand this, you will get lost, however intelligent you are. It is the great secret." - Tao Te Ching From dbtgthomas@aol.com Tue Jun 11 06:44:45 PDT 1996 Article: 42550 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news2.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!realtime.net!news.mindspring.com!cssun.mathcs.emory.edu!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e2a.gnn.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: dbtgthomas@aol.com (DbtgThomas) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: The Holocaust; Six million dead Date: 11 Jun 1996 00:07:20 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 30 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4pirdo$87e@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4pgrjm$emo@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: dbtgthomas@aol.com (DbtgThomas) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com Ambrose wrote: >As for how the number of 6 million came about... See, the Germans were >big on keeping records and documents, so that sort of helps the process >along. But I guess for revisionist asswipes, these documents would be >"no longer operative," or some low level detailee in the Reichstag >accidently ordered all that poison gas to be purchased. Your strength of conviction appears to be bolstered by a startling lack of basic information. The Germans were indeed precise record keepers and sticklers for detail. That and the complete absence of the "records and documents" you allude to is one of the primary reasons that the alleged details of the story are being questioned, have been questioned by some >from the beginning. Where, pray tell, are these phantom records? I can assure you that thousands of academic researchers and millions of ordinary people would like to have that information. Please share. >It never ceases to amaze me when people go around with this kind of >crap, Some people are simply more easily amazed than others. You should be constantly in awe. ----------------------------------------------------------- "What is a good man but a bad man's teacher? What is a bad man but a good man's job? If you do not understand this, you will get lost, however intelligent you are. It is the great secret." - Tao Te Ching From dvdthomas@aol.com Tue Jun 11 17:09:01 PDT 1996 Article: 42627 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!scramble.lm.com!news.math.psu.edu!chi-news.cic.net!news.cais.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e2a.gnn.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Holocaust saved from drowning Date: 11 Jun 1996 14:43:32 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 11 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4pkeok$l7n@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4pa84n$sta@hackberry.zilker.net> Reply-To: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com Mike Curtis wrote: >They supposedly were wearing black swim suites. Sounds like they have some pretty large women on the team. Better lower the water level in the pool before entry. _________________________________________________________ "The kind of person who always insists on his way of seeing things can never learn anything from anyone." - Tao Te Ching, 24 From dvdthomas@aol.com Wed Jun 12 10:36:56 PDT 1996 Article: 42682 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news2.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e2a.gnn.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Holocaust saved from drowning Date: 11 Jun 1996 14:42:25 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 11 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4pkemh$l6v@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4p9v2f$63i@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> Reply-To: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com >Yes, I heard this story reported on the CBC Radio's 6 o'clock news >this morning. Pretty amazing. Goose-stepping synchronised swimmers. >Wonder what kind of make-up they were planning to wear. In the best tradition of the long distance swimmer--goose grease, of course. :-) _________________________________________________________ "The kind of person who always insists on his way of seeing things can never learn anything from anyone." - Tao Te Ching, 24 From dvdthomas@aol.com Thu Jun 13 23:24:51 PDT 1996 Article: 42959 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news.ultranet.com!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!realtime.net!news.mindspring.com!cssun.mathcs.emory.edu!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e2a.gnn.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Dresden? Date: 13 Jun 1996 12:51:43 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 52 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4ppguv$ibm@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References:Reply-To: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com I can't believe this is still catching fish, but resolve knows no bounds, including the contstraints of reading comprehension. Mark Van Alstine wrote, and Ken Lewis replied: >>What is even more ludicrous is that DvdThomas asserts that a B-29 had a >>payload of 100,000 tons. Um, I don't think the battleship Yamato weighed >>100,000 tons. > >Right on!!! Mark also wrote: >Actually, it is obvious on a casual inspection of the facts that a lot of >out-there stories get tossed around. Like the one about a B-29 carrying >100,000 tons of _anything_. > >But is does make good "revisionist history"... };-> and >Get a clue guys! Prone to "spontaneous combustion?" More like prone >period! Damn bird would be as flat as a ran-over bear can. A bear can do many things, and is especially noted for a propensity to defecate in forested areas. Now, the clue you yearn for, an earlier post in this thread (me, to Mike Curtis): >Compadre, my own opinion is that you would benefit first from dwelling on >how many pounds are in a ton, and then checking the loaded weight of the >largest aircraft in the world, circa 1996. After that, pull your head out >of your behind, clean out your ears, and open your mind. Then and only >then will you be prepared to participate in something besides the best >send-up I have seen in many a long day. This sequence has been damn near >priceless, and more revealing than a little about what unwarranted >prejudice, preconceptions, and ass-umptions do to folks. > >Peace. And thanks to Ken McVay for making this all possible. :-) In fairness, special credit must be given to all the straight-line volunteers. This couldn't have happened without you, guys! )-: || ;-) _________________________________________________________ "The kind of person who always insists on his way of seeing things can never learn anything from anyone." - Tao Te Ching, 24 From dvdthomas@aol.com Tue Jun 18 10:16:40 PDT 1996 Article: 44267 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!in2.uu.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Viewpoints Date: 17 Jun 1996 15:31:25 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 22 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4q4bqd$i31@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4pt143$d86@dfw-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com >jite@ix.netcom.com (!Rack Jite) wrote: >>The one-way street so many people live on is truly amazing. >>Limbaugh does little else but call the president and first lady names, >>he has songs, monologues, on and on, 20 million people loving it, ha ha >>ha ha... Talk radio in general is nothing but calling liberals names. >>Newt, Armey and Delay do little but call liberals names, thats all fine >>and dandy... But ohhhhh... When a liberal kicks it back, we cant have >>that. Its a different story. UNFAIR. >>And that tit for tat UNFAIRNESS is why I am always in so much trouble. Pendulums swing. You can stand back and cuss at that fact (as has been done in mirror image for several decades) or work with the flow; direct it, don't uselessly fight it--your choice. Always works that way. You can flail your ass away at a stream of water running toward you with little result except making a mess. Better to throw up a dam, one rock at a time. Show some rocks, not fists. _________________________________________________________ "The kind of person who always insists on his way of seeing things can never learn anything from anyone." - Tao Te Ching, 24 From dvdthomas@aol.com Tue Jun 18 17:18:20 PDT 1996 Article: 44341 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e2a.gnn.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: The Vergasungskeller letter Date: 18 Jun 1996 12:59:04 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 9 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4q6n8o$7be@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4q5a9b$iek@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com Mattogno and Graf came across what they refer to only as a highly interesting document in the Soviet archives in Moscow regarding this (or these) cellars that they say will shed light on the meaning of the letter. Should be published in 1997, perhaps sooner. _________________________________________________________ "The kind of person who always insists on his way of seeing things can never learn anything from anyone." - Tao Te Ching, 24 From dvdthomas@aol.com Tue Jun 18 19:47:14 PDT 1996 Article: 44359 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!fury.berkshire.net!news.albany.net!news.sover.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e2a.gnn.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Holocaust authority Chuckles Ferree Date: 17 Jun 1996 17:33:55 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 24 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4q4j03$p8v@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: Reply-To: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com D. Keren wrote: >what were >all these corpses doing in the camps in Germany, if these >were not death camps. > >In Belsen, for instance, the Allies found more than 25,000 >corpses. There was a tremendous epidemic raging in Belsen for some time. The Germans attempted to surrender the camp to advancing forces some two weeks before the Allies took the area because they could do nothing to stop it with absolutely no medical resources and nex to no food. The British commander, for whatever reasons, told them to bug off. After the Brits took the camp, even with resources now available, 14,000 Belsen inmates died in the next two months. The incident was reported in an American medical journal in 1945. D. Thomas _________________________________________________________ "The kind of person who always insists on his way of seeing things can never learn anything from anyone." - Tao Te Ching, 24 From dvdthomas@aol.com Tue Jun 18 19:47:16 PDT 1996 Article: 44360 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!fury.berkshire.net!news.albany.net!news.sover.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e2a.gnn.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Holocaust authority Chuckles Ferree Date: 17 Jun 1996 17:33:57 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 66 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4q4j05$p90@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4q1trn$auo@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com Someone wrote: They raced through the gate, expecting to find >> > >imprisoned Allied soldiers - which they did, but most of them were >> > >civilians, and ALL of them were treated in a manner which, in his >> > >words, " You'd shoot a man for treating his dog that way." . He was >> > >having a beer in the VFW in Killen, Texas, and I saw the look in his >> > >eyes. He had seen his buddies blown to bits before his eyes, he had >> > >seen entire cities reduced to rubble, but he wasn't prepared for the >> > >death camps. So, to those who deny that it happened - Sorry, no sale. >> > >Memory lasts for quite awhile. I once met a man in Lake Charles, Louisiana who operated a pawn shop specializing in military memorabilia. We fell into a conversation, and he regaled me for more than an hour with stories ranging from his underage enlistment, early training, a hilarious near accidental collision with the fleet's flagship near Panama, and an absolutely gripping account of being trapped sixty feet down in a disabled sub from which only part of the crew escaped. There were tears in his eyes set in a grim face, and I felt the same way. He talked at great length about the radar gear after I revealed a knowledge of same, and he obviously knew his ropes there too. He finished with a story of their final run off the coast of nearly defenseless Japan, where they sank ships like so many shooting ducks until they ran out of torpedoes and started for home on the surface to conserve the now low fuel (their rendevous tanker didn't show). He was awarded the Navy Cross, which he showed me, for taking charge of the sub after it was damaged heavily in a surface engagement with a destroyer and all the officers and chiefs killed. This 19 year old radar tech brought the crippled U.S.S. Sunfish back to Pearl with no assistance, as all available craft were needed for the ongoing invasion of Okinawa. He had served on other subs, but the Sunfish achieved a kill record on this one mission that was unequalled in either ocean. He told the parts of his bravery with great humility and spoke again of his dead comrades by name, wondering about members of their families he had met and never kept in touch with. I left, enthralled with the story, thinking I might write about it. A few hours later, in a little bookstore on St. Charles street in the French Quarter, I was astounded to come across a volume detailing the history of the U.S. Submarine Service from its inception to 1945! Serendipity! Still stoked at actually meeting someone who had been through the real shit, I bought the volume and rushed to read about my new friend. Took only about three minutes to find the right appendix and determine that there never was a U.S. submarine called the Sunfish. Another thirty minutes revealed large flaws in dates and other details that he furnished so freely and were still fresh in my mind. It happens. Which is not to say that the guy above didn't see some horrible sights. The Germans from one of the nearby towns were forced to view the piles of corpses, an experience which caused several of them to commit suicide afterward (including, I believe, the mayor and/or his wife). BTW, I grew up in Texas. Mistreatment of dogs is common, endemic to certain kinds of people, and nobody shoots anybody over it. Man got a right there to do whatever he wants with his dawg or his wife or his kids, and it ain't nobody's business but his own. D. Thomas _________________________________________________________ "The kind of person who always insists on his way of seeing things can never learn anything from anyone." - Tao Te Ching, 24 From dvdthomas@aol.com Wed Jun 19 00:09:54 PDT 1996 Article: 44401 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!overload.lbl.gov!marlin.ucsf.edu!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Soviate style McVay Justice: how to spot aryans Date: 17 Jun 1996 02:28:42 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 40 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4q2tuq$r1d@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4q0duu$g6l@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com The following exchange is between D. Keren and M. Giwer: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote: >[Followup = alt.revisionism] >mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) >writes: > >[About Ken McVay] ># Actually he is very much in favor of free speech. He simply ># wants to deport those who exercise it so they can speak freely ># some place else. >To the best of my knowledge, Mr. McVay does not at all support >deporting anyone. >Unless you can prove that he does, we will have another proof that >you are a pathological liar. I was unaware he supported Canadian citizenship for Zundel. May I quote you? **** I am sure that anyone who cares to look through the search services can find one or more posts by Mr. McVay on this subject wherein he makes clear and gleeful reference to his pleasure at the idea of Zundel being deported. One of them may still be in the current postings. Sorry, don't recall the thread. D. Thomas _________________________________________________________ "The kind of person who always insists on his way of seeing things can never learn anything from anyone." - Tao Te Ching, 24 From dvdthomas@aol.com Thu Jun 20 10:57:04 PDT 1996 Article: 44859 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e2a.gnn.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Ernst Zundel's crocodile tears Date: 20 Jun 1996 12:29:57 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 47 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4qbua5$fhb@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4q9ief$944@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> Reply-To: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com Ken McVay wrote, of Ernst Zuendel's acquittal on appeal: >Is he? In the first case - the "publishing false news" case, >he was clearly guilty - two juries said so. That the law was >later thrown out does not change the jury findings. In short, >he was not "persecuted," he really _did_ publish lies, and >under existing law of the day, his arrest was justified. That >the law was arcane, and ineffectual, I readily agree. This is an interesting interpretation of the Western system of justice. I think it's called sophistry, albeit unwitting. So all successful appellants are, in your eyes, guilty as charged. That's more than a little scary. And juries, of course, are the final arbiters of truth. Why, I believe that O.J. Simpson may find a second career in Canadian football. The appeals process is intended to protect citizens from the stupidities and inequities of laws, legislators, lower court judges and ignorant jurors. If you wish to side with stupidity, inequity, ignorance and incompetence then your statement above becomes valid. Otherwise, it is close to: "lying, and of _knowingly_ lying" That's said in sarcasm. I don't believe in calling people liars without incontrovertible evidence of it and that doesn't exist here. I'll stay with "unwitting sophistry" as an adequate description. >I would give creedence to the charge of "persecution" with >regard to the recent "conspiracy" charge, which I think was >foolish and doomed to failure from the gitgo, but what one >citizen does does not "persecution" make. Neither, I must >point out, is a libel suit - unless, of course, you believe >that Canadians should be able to lie about anyone with >complete legal impunity? Or that the victim of such lies >should have no legal recourse? "One citizen" does not accurately describe the Candadian bureaucracy that was involved in the persecution. The one citizen you refer to has made a career of late of directing charges at Zuendel that result in nothing save great expense for the taxpayers of Canada and Zuendel himself. _________________________________________________________ "The kind of person who always insists on his way of seeing things can never learn anything from anyone." - Tao Te Ching, 24 From dvdthomas@aol.com Thu Jun 20 23:05:15 PDT 1996 Article: 44973 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!fury.berkshire.net!news.albany.net!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e2a.gnn.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: MATT GIWER REPORT for Jun 10-13: 21.1% / 26.1% Date: 20 Jun 1996 13:02:20 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 13 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4qc06s$g8h@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4q9apb$7mi@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> Reply-To: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com Ah, statistics! It might also be interesting to see an analysis of the number of incidents of Ken McVay and Dan Keren repeatedly posting the same archival quotes, and how many of these produced no thread, not even one response. Propagandizing of a base sort is done by repeating the same material over, and over, and over, and over, until it burns into consciousness by default. (Graber made me do it!!) _________________________________________________________ "The kind of person who always insists on his way of seeing things can never learn anything from anyone." - Tao Te Ching, 24 From dvdthomas@aol.com Thu Jun 20 23:05:16 PDT 1996 Article: 44980 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!fury.berkshire.net!news.albany.net!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e2a.gnn.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Elie Wiesel, a Prominent false Witness (repost) Date: 20 Jun 1996 13:03:40 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 49 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4qc09c$g9m@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4q7f9m$qel@Vir.com> Reply-To: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com Dan Keren wrote: >Faurisson claims that historians "no longer believe" testimony >about throwing people alive into the "burning ditches" in >Birkenau. If he's not lying, he should present a large number >of historians who indeed say that they don't believe this ever >happened. Until he does, he's lying about this point. In street parlance, this is known as "jive." Let me get this straight. Every non-referenced assertion is a lie? What is your reference for that assertion? Oh. You didn't give one. I'll be darned. (Or are only Faurisson's assertions to be treated this way?) >We know, BTW, that the SS burned people alive in other camps, >and in Lidice if memory serves me right. Why, silly me! You do give your reference--your right serving memory. Jive talk, sir, classic jive talk. To be able to conduct a conversation in a reasonable time frame, some element of trust and common sense is required. If you said that you had searched for a historian who does believe it and found one, or if you said that you could not find any historian who supports Faurisson's assertion, after reasonably diligent search, then and only then would you have earned the right to legitimately claim that perhaps Faurisson is mistaken. To call his comment a lie based on your reasoning is not a lie, but it sure isn't true. *** "But 'glory' doesn't mean 'a nice knock-down argument,'" Jean-Francois objected. "When _I_ use a word," Professor Keren said, in a rather scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean--neither more nor less." "The question is," said Beaulieu, "whether you _can_ make words mean so many different things." "The question is," said Humpty Keren, "which is to be master--that's all." (With apologies to Charles Lutwidge Dodgson.) _________________________________________________________ "The kind of person who always insists on his way of seeing things can never learn anything from anyone." - Tao Te Ching, 24 From dvdthomas@aol.com Fri Jun 21 08:09:54 PDT 1996 Article: 44993 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!fury.berkshire.net!news.albany.net!news.sover.net!imci2!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e2a.gnn.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: The full story of the reconstruction Date: 20 Jun 1996 12:57:33 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 15 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4qbvtt$g3s@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: Reply-To: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com Dan Keren wrote: >Show me your evidence that there are traces on the *outside* >walls. I have a feeling you're confusing this gas chamber with >some delousing chambers that indeed have traces on the outside walls. This is a given. There have even been discussions here about the significance. No one questioned the existence of what is present in pictures and reports. Why do you quibble about such an obvious matter? Or is quibbling the aim? _________________________________________________________ "The kind of person who always insists on his way of seeing things can never learn anything from anyone." - Tao Te Ching, 24 From dvdthomas@aol.com Sun Jun 23 19:30:21 PDT 1996 Article: 45623 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e2a.gnn.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: The Return of the Prodigal Poster - Faustian Follies? Date: 23 Jun 1996 20:06:03 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 39 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4qkm5b$o5q@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4qjvp1$fv8@atlas.uniserve.com> Reply-To: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com H. Ostrov writes: >>I have learned from hard experience that the Friends of Nizkor comprises >>more than a few who are not interested either in honest debate or truth >>per se. > >Kindly provide your evidence to support this assertion, or retract it, >Mr. Ehrlich. His evidence is his unpleasant experience in trying to be open and honest with people on this newsgroup who are neither open nor honest nor particularly intelligent. It is an experience shared by many, including myself. Pretending to want to discuss details with you, they quickly resort to personal attacks such as your sleazy attempt to intimidate Erhlich by doing a sing-song child's game of "I know a secret about you, but I won't tell. Maybe," and far worse, often delivered by groups. Your intent is not to debate or post facts or ascertain facts, it is to influence lurkers and disrupt honest exchanges of information and ideas. There is nothing to retract. >I have no idea what a "conventialist" is - other than perhaps a >convenient label you choose to use for those who question you, and ask >you to substantiate your assertions and theories. > >However, if it is your contention that I am "essentially dishonest", >kindly provide your evidence to support this assertion, or retract it, >Mr. Ehrlich. If I am mistaken, and you did not intend to imply that I >am "essentially dishonest", I would appreciate your clarification of >this statement. Evidence to support the assertion is given by your first eight words of the above being followed by the rest of the sentence. It is a minor example of a major shortcoming. Your end justifies your means. _________________________________________________________ "The kind of person who always insists on his way of seeing things can never learn anything from anyone." - Tao Te Ching, 24 From dvdthomas@aol.com Sun Jun 23 19:30:21 PDT 1996 Article: 45627 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!newsfeed.internetmci.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp.coast.net!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e2a.gnn.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Irving's 'Goebbels' book now available (fwd) Date: 23 Jun 1996 20:11:42 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 22 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4qkmfu$obd@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4qiurd$3ta@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU> Reply-To: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com Rich Green wrote: >Because they're Nazi-apologists with no interest in getting to the >truth. The IHR is run by Greg Raven who has posted his admiration for >Hitler. Perhaps, Dr. Keren can remind us. Time magazine made Joe Stalin its Man of the Year in 1939, I believe. Does this mean that Time admired Stalin, or were they simply recognizing his great effect on the course of history? Disliking someone's philosophy or moral position does not require adopting the stance that the person possesses only the basest of human attributes. Lots of bad guys have talents that they put to uses destructive to the societies in which they lived. To describe them as idiots because you don't like what they did is labeling yourself, not the object of your scorn. The reactions to this (recognizing that demonized people may have or have had talents) are reminiscent of the reactions of church authorities to less than totally condemnatory remarks about Lucifer. _________________________________________________________ "The kind of person who always insists on his way of seeing things can never learn anything from anyone." - Tao Te Ching, 24 From dvdthomas@aol.com Mon Jun 24 15:48:58 PDT 1996 Article: 45743 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!swrinde!gatech!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e2a.gnn.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Au revoir, but not goodbye Date: 23 Jun 1996 19:51:36 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 11 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4qkla8$nmb@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <31cd17a9.63402708@news.srv.ualberta.ca> Reply-To: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com John Morris wrote: >a vigorous political culture in >alt.revisionism. That is one of the highest flights of fantasy that I have ever read. _________________________________________________________ "The kind of person who always insists on his way of seeing things can never learn anything from anyone." - Tao Te Ching, 24 From dvdthomas@aol.com Mon Jun 24 23:03:00 PDT 1996 Article: 45777 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e2a.gnn.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Deniers' True Colours (was Re: Lets get this straight) Date: 23 Jun 1996 20:41:59 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 18 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4qko8n$oqk@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <31cd0f49.61258077@news.srv.ualberta.ca> Reply-To: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com John Morris wrote: >On the contrary, I take it as a sign of the utter bankruptcy of >Revisionism that you personally have to resort to such tactics as >flooding this newsgroup with meaningless posts, and that Revisionists >not only will not speak out against such tactics, but openly support >them. Using a more cogent example, I have never taken Mr. Keren's prediliction for endless reposting of the same dreary material, without even a pretense of doing so to share information or stimulate discussion, as a sign of the bankruptcy of anything save Mr. Keren's imagination. To make a connection between his actions and historical accuracy would be ludicrous. _________________________________________________________ "The kind of person who always insists on his way of seeing things can never learn anything from anyone." - Tao Te Ching, 24 From dvdthomas@aol.com Tue Jun 25 10:45:56 PDT 1996 Article: 45878 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e2a.gnn.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Ernst Zundel's crocodile tears Date: 25 Jun 1996 13:08:50 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 41 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4qp6f2$fki@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <31cece0a.251373545@news.zilker.net> Reply-To: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com Mike Curtis wrote: >In article <4qeevl$96t@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>, kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca >(Ken McVay OBC) wrote: >> >Isn't it the case that the appeal threw out the law itself rather than >> >the verdict? In other words, Mr. Zuendel was indeed proven to be a >> >liar, but the the higher court found that lying isn't a crime. >> >> That is precisely right. Two juries found that he knowingly >> published lies - in my book, that makes him a liar :-) > >No doubt, if the Court had determined that someone was a witch, and had >burned him at the stake, any subsequent opinions that there were no such >things as witches would not change that person's witchworthiness. This wasn't a capital case Zundel was involved in. Therefore the death pentalty is a nonissue here. I thought as head of the IHR you would have a higher level of thinking but I see there is no difference between you and most of the racists I read in this group. Mike Curtis ****** These comments are not offered in a mean-spirited way, in fact I'm trying not to laugh. You certainly know how to cut to the heart of a matter. May I humbly suggest that you consider refraining from making public pronouncements about higher levels of thinking? Then again, this could be just the most inept attempt at sarcasm I've seen in a while. :-) _________________________________________________________ "The kind of person who always insists on his way of seeing things can never learn anything from anyone." - Tao Te Ching, 24 From dvdthomas@aol.com Tue Jun 25 22:20:20 PDT 1996 Article: 45985 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-9.sprintlink.net!news-penn.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp.coast.net!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e2a.gnn.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: The Color of Zyklon: Call Me Zyklon Blue Date: 25 Jun 1996 12:12:18 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 43 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4qp352$e1i@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4qnfpm$mqi@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com M. Giwer wrote: > Unfortunately, it is in the too hard category. The right way to do it >is to measure it. It isn't the kind of thing I would do at home. Some time ago there was extended discussion of how hard it would be to do an experiment to determine HCN evaporation rates. There are three difficulties in doing this, none of them really major: (1) Obtain some pure HCN (or stabilized, with 1% or so additive to prevent polymerization explosions). (2) Conduct the experiment safely. (3) Monitor diffusion accurately if done in a known volume chamber. As a starting point, I would suggest placing a measured amount of HCN liquid in a shallow dish whose area has been measured, doing so in some remote location where the fumes will dissipate harmlessly (downwind!). Then simply stand upwind and measure the time it takes to evaporate, noting of course the ambient temperature, and perhaps measuring the temperature of the HCN with a simple Fluke thermocouple sensor since it will tend to cool as evaporation takes place. The next phase would consist of making ersatz Zyklon with readily available diatomaceous earth pellets and repeating the experiment with the container placed on top of a digital scale in order to monitor weight loss and thereby evaporation. You would put a known amount of HCN in the pellets, and it wouldn't matter whether or not the HCN content was maximized since the intent is to measure rate. It gets harder to do this in a known volume (to include diffusion), primarily because of the need to use some moderately expensive concentration monitoring instruments and sensors at several locations within the chamber. And to construct a chamber, for that matter. Quite doable though, and for less than $5,000 according to my calculations. Which could be the biggest problem of all. Anybody got 5 grand laying around they want to donate? :-) _________________________________________________________ "The kind of person who always insists on his way of seeing things can never learn anything from anyone." - Tao Te Ching, 24 From dvdthomas@aol.com Tue Jun 25 23:16:38 PDT 1996 Article: 45989 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-9.sprintlink.net!news-penn.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: David Irving's 'Goebbels' bio - great! Date: 25 Jun 1996 12:13:33 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 10 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4qp37d$e2k@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4qmr5e$s36@Networking.Stanford.EDU> Reply-To: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com The complete scenario of how Irving's Goebbels book was intended to be put up on the Net and then withdrawn for the moment was explained in detail in a thread here a couple of months ago. All involved seemed to agree that it was a natural progression born of hasty reaction to unexpected events. There was no hint of concocted publicity in this, none at all. _________________________________________________________ "The kind of person who always insists on his way of seeing things can never learn anything from anyone." - Tao Te Ching, 24 From dvdthomas@aol.com Wed Jun 26 07:18:32 PDT 1996 Article: 46024 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!nic.wat.hookup.net!xenitec!zenox.com!news2.insinc.net!onramp.ca!geac!lethe!abyss!news2.compulink.com!news3.idirect.com!tor.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e2a.gnn.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Photographs from BELSEN Camp Date: 20 Jun 1996 13:12:29 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 44 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4qc0pt$gdm@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: Reply-To: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com >From the Journal of the American Medical Association, May 19, 1945; p220 "TYPHUS CAUSES A TRUCE "By negotiations between British and German officers, British troops took over from the S.S. and Wehrmacht the task of guarding the vast concentration camp at Belse, a few miles northwest of Celle, which contains 60,000 prisoners, many of them political. This has been done because typhus is rampant in the camp and it is vital that no prisoners be released until the infection is checked. The advancing British agreed to refrain from bombing or shelling the area of the camp, and the Germans agreed to leave behind an armed guard which would be allowed to return to their own lines a week after the British arrival. The story of the negotiations is curious. Two German officers presented themselves before the British outposts and explained that there were 9,000 sick in the camp and that all sanitation had failed. They proposed that the British should occupy the camp at once, as the responsibility was international in the interests of health. In return for the delay caused by the truce the Germans offered to surrender intact the bridges over the river Aller. After brief consideration the British senior officer rejected the German proposals, saying it was necessary that the British should occupy an area of 10 kilometers round the camp in order to be sure of keeping their troops and lines of communications away from the disease. The British eventually took over the camp." **** By the time they "eventually took over the camp" thousands were dead and dying. In the two month period following their entry, 14,000 more died. Many of the Germans who stayed with this hopeless situation were summarily executed by the reluctant liberators. Others were later tried and hanged. The pictures of these typhus and cholera created corpses are standard fare in museums and films on gas chambers, when in fact they have utterly nothing to do with that subject. If this isn't progaganda, what would you call it? Is this an attempt to excuse the abuses at Belsen and other camps? Not in the least. It is an attempt to correct the abuses of factual recountings of what actually took place. _________________________________________________________ "The kind of person who always insists on his way of seeing things can never learn anything from anyone." - Tao Te Ching, 24 From dvdthomas@aol.com Thu Jun 27 07:33:03 PDT 1996 Article: 46210 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!lamarck.sura.net!news.uky.edu!news.campus.mci.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!inXS.uu.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: The Return of the Prodigal Poster - Faustian Follies? Date: 25 Jun 1996 12:43:44 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 22 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4qp500$etn@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4qo9g7$q5e@cnn.cc.biu.ac.il> Reply-To: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com Richard Schultz wrote: I never made such a claim -- and you know that. You made a claim that "Ehrlich606" was particularly appropriate for this newsgroup, and I pointed out (somewhat facetiously, but I see that your sense of irony is somewhat impaired) that your remark could be interpreted to mean that "Ehrlich606" was appropriate because of the Nazis' Jews = bacilli (not vermin, btw) propaganda. I don't believe that I claimed that's where you got your pseudonym; I merely suggested that as a possibility. ********* I very much appreciate humor even (sometimes especially) when it's directed at me. I am sidetracked far enough on the skewed path to often see humor where none was intended. I remember your post about the bacillus. There was no humor there. _________________________________________________________ "The kind of person who always insists on his way of seeing things can never learn anything from anyone." - Tao Te Ching, 24 From dvdthomas@aol.com Thu Jun 27 07:33:04 PDT 1996 Article: 46269 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!lamarck.sura.net!news.uky.edu!news.campus.mci.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e2a.gnn.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Au revoir, but not goodbye Date: 25 Jun 1996 13:07:43 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 15 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4qp6cv$fj3@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <31ce5ed1.52984452@news.srv.ualberta.ca> Reply-To: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com >>John Morris wrote: > >>>a vigorous political culture in >>>alt.revisionism. > >>That is one of the highest flights of fantasy that I have ever read. > >Irony is obviously not for everyone. Obliviously, ;-) _________________________________________________________ "The kind of person who always insists on his way of seeing things can never learn anything from anyone." - Tao Te Ching, 24 From dvdthomas@aol.com Thu Jun 27 07:33:05 PDT 1996 Article: 46270 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!lamarck.sura.net!news.uky.edu!news.campus.mci.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e2a.gnn.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: The Return of the Prodigal Poster - Faustian Follies? Date: 25 Jun 1996 13:07:49 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 21 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4qp6d5$fj7@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4qlb7u$j9q@cnn.cc.biu.ac.il> Reply-To: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com Richard Schultz wrote: >: I will concede your expert knowledge on that. My previous statements >: presupposed the honor, decency, and fairness of all participants on this >: board. I have learned in a hard school that I presupposed far too much. > >Why don't we start with the level of honor shown by people who refuse >to post under their own names? That's a straw dog, and a tired old one at that. Harrassment in this area is a fact of life. Some can tolerate it, some don't want to. Anonymity is a personal choice and a matter of convenience to some. The only thing related to honor in this group is the truthfulness of the posters, not their completely irrelevant indentities. _________________________________________________________ "The kind of person who always insists on his way of seeing things can never learn anything from anyone." - Tao Te Ching, 24 From dvdthomas@aol.com Thu Jun 27 07:33:06 PDT 1996 Article: 46271 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!lamarck.sura.net!news.uky.edu!news.campus.mci.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e2a.gnn.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: The Return of the Prodigal Poster - Faustian Follies? Date: 25 Jun 1996 13:07:51 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 12 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4qp6d7$fj8@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <31cecba3.250758108@news.zilker.net> Reply-To: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com It has been suuggested that Ehrlich here might be a couple of other names appearing here. Mike Curtis Thanks--I had almost forgotten that I am really Erhlich. Gord McFee can attest to this.--DT/E6 _________________________________________________________ "The kind of person who always insists on his way of seeing things can never learn anything from anyone." - Tao Te Ching, 24 From dvdthomas@aol.com Thu Jun 27 18:00:32 PDT 1996 Article: 46313 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e2a.gnn.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: The Return of the Prodigal Poster - Faustian Follies? Date: 27 Jun 1996 14:14:34 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 15 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4quj2a$t4o@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <31cfef10.325374800@news.zilker.net> Reply-To: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com Mike Curtis wrote: >Opinions are like ass-holes. We all have 'em. Giwer doesn't back his >up and most of his "opinions" are lies and obfuscations about what >people tell him. I think you are capable of providing a better >argument, you simply have your books in the attic. > >Mike Curtis Newsgroups are like opinions. They all have....... _________________________________________________________ "The kind of person who always insists on his way of seeing things can never learn anything from anyone." - Tao Te Ching, 24 From dvdthomas@aol.com Thu Jun 27 18:00:33 PDT 1996 Article: 46359 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!gatech!news.mindspring.com!cssun.mathcs.emory.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e2a.gnn.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Deniers' True Colours (was Re: Lets get this straight) Date: 23 Jun 1996 20:37:02 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 23 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4qknve$ooh@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <31cb3e62.26221548@news.srv.ualberta.ca> Reply-To: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com John Morris wrote: >Matt Giwer announces his intention to destroy discussion on >alt.revisionism until such as time as the discussion is entirely on >his terms. His terms seem to me to be discussion of topics, not personalities. I'd support that aim regardless of who was promoting it. I wouldn't choose the labor intensive method that he has, but appealing to reason and civility didn't do a damned thing when I tried that approach, so who am I to second-guess? "Spamming," unless I misunderstand the term (which could be the case) does not seem to apply to what is going on here, even if Mr. Giwer uses the term himself. Some people here need to grow up and take their own advice. If you don't like his posts, don't read them. _________________________________________________________ "The kind of person who always insists on his way of seeing things can never learn anything from anyone." - Tao Te Ching, 24 From dvdthomas@aol.com Thu Jun 27 20:58:26 PDT 1996 Article: 46410 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!van-bc!van.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e2a.gnn.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: The Color of Zyklon: Call Me Zyklon Blue Date: 27 Jun 1996 14:01:07 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 19 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4qui93$sja@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4qqeed$lg4@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU> Reply-To: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com Rich Green wrote: >>Then simply stand upwind and measure the time it takes to evaporate, > >Stand upwind with a gas mask, or how will you uncover the HCN? A gas mask isn't a bad idea, but not necessary. The stuff simply isn't that dangerous if you have a single contained source and are careful about what you're doing. I doubt that one intake of even fairly strong vapors would incapacitate you, though I don't wish to find out. Would be quite sufficient just to hold your breath, uncover the container and walk upwind. You don't want to be breathing HF vapors either, and you ought to see how carelessly that stuff is handled in industrial applications. Ditto HCN. _________________________________________________________ "The kind of person who always insists on his way of seeing things can never learn anything from anyone." - Tao Te Ching, 24 From dvdthomas@aol.com Fri Jun 28 07:18:58 PDT 1996 Article: 46436 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!sgigate.sgi.com!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e2a.gnn.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: The true revisionist theme Date: 27 Jun 1996 09:31:53 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 61 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4qu2g9$nkv@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4qslbg$qiq@access5.digex.net> Reply-To: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com Mike Stein wrote: >As an example: the rarity of documentation for gas chambers is cited >as evidence of their nonexistence I do not interpret it that way and know of few who do. What I have said, and continue to say, is that the total lack of documentation (not rarity) is certainly cause for skeptical inquiry and further investigation. I also do not say that gas chambers did not exist, only that I have not seen a shred of evidence to support that as yet except for oral testimonies of suspect origin. >but the rarity of documentation of the >true resettlement of the Jews (railroad records, etc.) is not viewed with >similar suspicion. Russians can destroy evidence but Germans cannot? The "but" doesn't apply to me in this case. I know little of this subject, have no present opinions to offer. As for evidence, I don't think that the Germans were known for destroying anything save some individual diaries and personal papers of the higher leaders. Detailed records of many things that would be uncomfortable for a conqueror to find were indeed found, totally intact--such as Hitler's written orders to kill commissars and every adult male in Stalingrad (the former being the basis for the execution of a couple of generals at Nuremberg). And regarding Russian evidence, only Russia can answer that one. Their country wasn't conquered and occupied so that anyone could determine if documents exist, or had been destroyed. >Despite Mr. Widmann's (proper) rejection of the notion of painting >with a broad brush, revisionist methodology - and here it is a true >Johnny one-note from all I have seen - holds that since some eyewitness >testimonies are unreliable, _all_ of them are Once again I will reply in the key of D, as in Disagree. This is not my position at all. I am skeptical of all the testimonies--I think they are next to worthless in determining what really took place without physical corroboration because of the obvious bias of their presenting sources. But untrue? There's no way I could make that judgment, any more than anyone else can prove them true. You either believe them or you don't. Refusing to accept something as the truth does not mean that you are saying it is false--only that you have no clear reason to accept it as truth and are bothered by the lack of supporting physical evidence. That seems to me a reasonable and prudent stance. Its use in our judicial system certainly helped get the poor McMartin clan out of the clutches of some hysterical witch hunters. Remember the "eyewitness" testimony there? There was a consistency to it too. What discredited it was its fantastic nature and total absence of corroborating physical evidence. However, this did not prove that the testimonies were lies, only that the court considered them inadequate to use as evidence when presented alone. There are still people who believe them, by the way. Believe passionately that the evil Raymond Buckey took children to a church through underground tunnels to see animals sacrificed in Satanic rituals. These people aren't wackos from the north woods either. They're ordinary middle and upper middle class folks living in Manhattan Beach, California who believe what they believe. That they do so doesn't change the fact that the odds are better than a few million to one that they're wrong. _________________________________________________________ "The kind of person who always insists on his way of seeing things can never learn anything from anyone." - Tao Te Ching, 24 From dvdthomas@aol.com Fri Jun 28 07:18:59 PDT 1996 Article: 46439 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp.coast.net!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e2a.gnn.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: The true revisionist theme Date: 27 Jun 1996 09:40:52 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 35 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4qu314$npq@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4qslbg$qiq@access5.digex.net> Reply-To: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com Mike Stein wrote: >you to claim that all those who say the same thing are liars - if it did, >I could have pointed to all the lies told by revisionists and declared >victory two years ago. But revisionists have to acknowledge the same >thing about eyewitness testimony, and it is certainly the case that when I >see so many lies (and by this I include lies by omission, the most >frequent sort) I am not willing to trust anything I have not doublechecked >for myself. > > Someone recently asked (in essence) what difference it would make if >everything I believed about Auschwitz turned out to be false. Not a bit, >really. What makes a difference to me is that it be established using >consistent and _honest_ standards of evidence and reasoning. This is just the closing part of a very reasonable post calling for honesty and dispassionate treatment of statements made here by all involved. That is indeed the way to exchange information, instead of engaging in distinctly amateurish name-calling. There are no Jack E. Leonards in this forum, not even an Andrew Dice Clay (for the younger set, "Fat" Jack E. Leonard was a popular one-line insult artist). One comment about "lies by ommission"--I have seen that happen (to me in fact) when the ommission was the result of ignorance, not dishonesty. It doesn't do much for your willingness to talk openly to someone if they scream LIAR!! at you every time you screw up, because personally I screw up a lot more often than I can tolerate being berated like that. And that's the truth. :-) _________________________________________________________ "The kind of person who always insists on his way of seeing things can never learn anything from anyone." - Tao Te Ching, 24 From dvdthomas@aol.com Fri Jun 28 13:24:15 PDT 1996 Article: 46506 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e2a.gnn.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Deniers' True Colours (was Re: Lets get this straight) Date: 23 Jun 1996 21:04:47 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 13 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4qkpjf$pc5@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <31cd1251.62034335@news.srv.ualberta.ca> Reply-To: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com John Morris wrote: >What you seem to >be asking for is a newsgroup where you can discuss Revisionism without >being challenged. That is utter nonsense. What he and others are demanding, not asking for, is a forum where discussions can take place free from personal attacks. _________________________________________________________ "The kind of person who always insists on his way of seeing things can never learn anything from anyone." - Tao Te Ching, 24 From dvdthomas@aol.com Sat Jun 29 07:30:46 PDT 1996 Article: 46692 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: A question for revisionists re: defenses at N'burgTo: David Date: 28 Jun 1996 00:52:59 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 76 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4qvofb$fa9@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4qv9dn$8gb@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Reply-To: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com Subject: Re: A question for revisionists re: defenses at N'burgTo: David From: sf924@aol.com (SF924) Date: 27 Jun 1996 20:36:07 -0400 Message-ID: <4qv9dn$8gb@newsbf02.news.aol.com> To David Thomas: As a follow-up to my earlier comments, I agree that many reasonable and brilliant scholars have questioned the legality of the Nuremberg trials including men such as Robert Taft and John M. Harlan. They were indeed of arguable legality. Nevertheless, other tials, particularly those held in Germany in the late 1940's and 1950's were clearly not illegal. Your comment while important, appears to bypass the central issue raised by this string: that is that none of the defendants, in any of the cases (I'M PREPARED TO STAND CORRECTED) ever raised the defense that there was no crime committed because there no gas chambers or a systematic plan to murder the Jews. There is no more fundamental defense which can be raised in a criminal case. As I have stated, it is inconceivable that none of these people would not have raised this defense if it was colorable. It is inconceivable that people would go like sheep to prison or even death for participating in "fictitious gassings" if the gassings were indeed fictitious. ****** Thanks for your comments. What I say next may need correction also, I do not present myself as an authority on the Nuremberg trials, and know less of those that followed. My understanding of what took place at Nuremberg is that the major charges were of four categories and none of them were specific to gas chambers, or to any particular mode of killing. Gas chamber evidence was presented along with many other alleged killing methods (some of them quite fantastic) simply to demonstrate that there was widespread killing, which probably was the case, especially in Auschwitz. Gas chambers were not the focal point of the trial and most of the comments I have read about the defendants indicates that they had no knowledge of what went on in the camps and many of them accepted what was put before them as possible, horrible and something they knew nothing about. They had not quite the fixation on that single point that this discussion group does. Even if one or more had taken that tack and been successful in proving it, it would not have gotten them off the hook. Men were hanged for a very vague general description of something like being part of a conspiracy to cause the deaths of prisoners. Testimony that they had beaten prisoners was sufficient for conviction in some cases. It appears that all any of them tried to come up with was that they were following orders and did not participate in any mass murders. Some said that they did not see any. A very few such as Hoess said that they did, although the latter was a bit off mental balance to put it mildly. They were being barraged with a tremendous number of accusations, many vague and in practically every case without any ability to cross examine the witness, since written statements were admitted as evidence. The transcripts are full of incidents where defense attorneys tried to open various lines of questioning or challenge statements and were summarily rebuffed. The judges were quick to dismiss these attempts as inappropriate, unnecessary, time wasting. The latter seems rather callous, given that the men were on trial for their lives. And there was more attention paid at Nuremberg to giving a show of fairness than at some of the lower profile courts for the camp guards, who were executed on unbelievably flimsy evidence, flimsy to the point of not being evidence at all. I refer you again to Carlos Porter's writings on this subject. Have you ever seen films of the People's Court proceedings in Berlin? The attitude of the court there was an exaggerated caricature of what went on at Nuremberg, but the two were conducted in the same vein--you're guilty as hell, you're going to get a fair trial, and then we're going to hang you. There is no doubt that some deserved punishment, but not all. _________________________________________________________ "The kind of person who always insists on his way of seeing things can never learn anything from anyone." - Tao Te Ching, 24 From dvdthomas@aol.com Sun Jun 30 09:34:18 PDT 1996 Article: 46967 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!lamarck.sura.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-feed4.bbnplanet.com!newshost.fiu.edu!usenet.fiu.edu!usenet.ufl.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.uoregon.edu!news.sol.net!newspump.sol.net!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!news.iag.net!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e2a.gnn.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Germany vs. US Date: 25 Jun 1996 13:08:17 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 25 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4qp6e1$fjo@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4qkgv4$lgv@krel.iea.com> Reply-To: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com Geo wrote: >>How much more justifiable it is to kill hundreds of thousands of innocent women and >>children hundreds of miles from the battlefield ( Dresden, Hamburg, Koln etc. >>etc.) with jelly bombs than killing them face to face. American moral at its' best ! > >Kind of like firebombing of London specifically and England in >general, right? Wrong. Germany did not bomb English cities until after the first English raid on Berlin. When they did so, it was primarily with high explosives and the scope was vastly different. English casualties from bombings for the entire war do not equal the deaths resulting from just one of the major fire-bombings that we delivered to the civilian populations of Germany and Japan. The really unconscionable part of this whole affair was that it contributed very little to eventual victory. It was the beginning act of a very sordid play of vengeance. _________________________________________________________ "The kind of person who always insists on his way of seeing things can never learn anything from anyone." - Tao Te Ching, 24 From dvdthomas@aol.com Sun Jun 30 09:34:19 PDT 1996 Article: 47032 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e2a.gnn.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: How to make eyewitness testimony credible Date: 25 Jun 1996 12:13:02 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 12 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4qp36e$e26@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4qmhos$el2@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Reply-To: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com Pete McCutchen wrote: >And is Dershowitz a good source for the OJ trial? Typcially, accounts by >lawyers, while interesting, are not objective. As good a source as he is for anything else. Particularly the fascinating subject of Alan Dershowitz. _________________________________________________________ "The kind of person who always insists on his way of seeing things can never learn anything from anyone." - Tao Te Ching, 24 From dvdthomas@aol.com Sun Jun 30 09:34:20 PDT 1996 Article: 47033 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e2a.gnn.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: The Color of Zyklon: Call Me Zyklon Blue Date: 25 Jun 1996 11:43:04 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 27 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4qp1e8$d63@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4qn167$csb@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU> Reply-To: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com II. METHOD OF USING PRUSSIC ACID ZYKLON is the absorption of a mixture of prussic acid and an irritant by a carrier. Wood fibre discs, a reddish brown granular mass (diagriess - Dia gravel) or small blue cubes (Erco) are used as carriers. [...] Would Ms. Sommers agree that it is not surprising that testimony would refer to Zyklon as blue? Regards, Rich Green ********* It would be interesting to know the source of the "blue cubes" (Erco?). Degesch literature describes only pellets and discs, no cubes, no blue. _________________________________________________________ "The kind of person who always insists on his way of seeing things can never learn anything from anyone." - Tao Te Ching, 24 From dvdthomas@aol.com Sun Jun 30 09:34:20 PDT 1996 Article: 47034 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.cloud9.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: THE DIESEL EXHAUST CONTROVERSY Date: 25 Jun 1996 12:14:36 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 14 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4qp39c$e3b@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4qkl9v$lte@Networking.Stanford.EDU> Reply-To: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com >I'm sure the fact that diesel exhaust cannot kill people will come as a >great comfort to the families and friends of a Redwood City teenager who >was reported to have committed suicide by sitting in a running car in a >closed garage. > >-rich That's DIESEL. Very few cars have diesel engines. Was this the case in this unreferenced citation? _________________________________________________________ "The kind of person who always insists on his way of seeing things can never learn anything from anyone." - Tao Te Ching, 24 From dvdthomas@aol.com Sun Jun 30 09:34:21 PDT 1996 Article: 47057 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e2a.gnn.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: The Color of Zyklon: Call Me Zyklon Blue Date: 25 Jun 1996 12:00:48 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 11 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4qp2fg$dgo@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: Reply-To: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com Mark Van Alstine wrote: (An excellent listing of various properties and facts concerning cyanide compounds and products.) Thank you for this well referenced and useful information. _________________________________________________________ "The kind of person who always insists on his way of seeing things can never learn anything from anyone." - Tao Te Ching, 24 From dvdthomas@aol.com Sun Jun 30 09:34:22 PDT 1996 Article: 47095 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e2a.gnn.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: An honest doubt-of-the-day Date: 30 Jun 1996 10:42:01 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 16 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4r63np$njh@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4r2dlo$97t@atlas.uniserve.com> Reply-To: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com Hilary Ostrov writes: >In any event, since you seem to have dismissed the vast body of >testimony and other evidence available, please do tell us what might >constitute "more convincing proofs" or "revisions" for your >doubt-of-the-day, Mr. Ehrlich. "and other evidence available"? Perhaps you could share this information. My personal doubt of this day is the likelihood of your being able to come up with anything beyond the testimony. This relates specifically to homicidal gassings. _________________________________________________________ "The kind of person who always insists on his way of seeing things can never learn anything from anyone." - Tao Te Ching, 24 From dvdthomas@aol.com Sun Jun 30 15:34:10 PDT 1996 Article: 47107 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.cloud9.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e2a.gnn.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Au revoir, but not goodbye Date: 25 Jun 1996 13:07:47 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 10 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4qp6d3$fj6@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <31CF0A67.1ABF@unb.ca> Reply-To: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com Keith Morrison wrote: >Actually I thought that irony was an amphibole. Asbestos is ironic? :-) _________________________________________________________ "The kind of person who always insists on his way of seeing things can never learn anything from anyone." - Tao Te Ching, 24 From dvdthomas@aol.com Sun Jun 30 15:34:11 PDT 1996 Article: 47108 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.cloud9.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e2a.gnn.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: The Return of the Prodigal Poster - Faustian Follies? Date: 25 Jun 1996 13:08:05 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 13 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4qp6dl$fjh@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4qnnta$346e@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> Reply-To: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com Gordon McFee wrote: >If you have studied history as much as >you claim, you know that statement is wrong; it is the deniers who are >dishonest. Both, sir. On occasion it is both. And much of what is lableled dishonesty is simply ignorance in action. _________________________________________________________ "The kind of person who always insists on his way of seeing things can never learn anything from anyone." - Tao Te Ching, 24 From dvdthomas@aol.com Sun Jun 30 15:34:12 PDT 1996 Article: 47109 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.cloud9.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e2a.gnn.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: The Return of the Prodigal Poster - Faustian Follies? Date: 25 Jun 1996 13:08:07 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 9 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4qp6dn$fji@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <31cf2b56.3072322@news.eden.com> Reply-To: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com Mike Curtis He who laughs last thinks slowest. And he who laughs not at all? :-) _________________________________________________________ "The kind of person who always insists on his way of seeing things can never learn anything from anyone." - Tao Te Ching, 24 From dvdthomas@aol.com Sun Jun 30 15:34:13 PDT 1996 Article: 47209 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!fury.berkshire.net!news.albany.net!news.sover.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!inXS.uu.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: from Michael O'Hare on Terrorism & Prejudice Date: 25 Jun 1996 14:19:24 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 36 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4qpajc$hcd@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4qp4ah$eiv@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Reply-To: dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com Pericles wrote: >From Michael O'Hare To the people of Israel I am horrified and disgusted by the obscene terrorism that the people of Israel have had to suffer through their brave and noble history. I give my word of honor to find a way to help you. veritas, Michael O'Hare **** Mr. O'Hare's sensibilities are veritas laudable. I would caution him not to look too closely at what the noble history of Israel has done to Palestinians, else he might go completely catatonic. The people of Israel are the only ones who can help themselves and they can only do so by being the ones to break the cycle of wrongs thrown at wrongs. Use the immense foreign aid funds given to Israel by the US to pay legitimate reparations to the Palestinians just for starters, give them back their property that was seized and help them rebuild what has been destroyed over the past 50 years or so. Nothing, of course, will bring back the legion of dead, but this would be a beginning. And I don't see any point in exchanging atrocity stories. Israel will lose by a wide margin in that category. _________________________________________________________ "The kind of person who always insists on his way of seeing things can never learn anything from anyone." - Tao Te Ching, 24
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