From mkelley@U.Arizona.EDU Wed Dec 13 19:34:25 PST 1995 Article: 15925 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.eas.asu.edu!noao!news.Arizona.EDU!kitts.u.arizona.edu!mkelley From: Marty KelleyNewsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Debby's specifications; her own words. Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 14:58:15 -0700 Organization: The University of Arizona Lines: 99 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: kitts.u.arizona.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII In-Reply-To: <4af9ct$cji@zippy.cais.net> Hey, everyone! Tom Moran really IS a "revisionist scholar"! And here's an example of his selective quoting to prove it: On Sun, 10 Dec 1995, tom moran wrote: [oblique reference to another _NY Times_ story snipped--I'll check this one later] > Nov. 8, 1993, New York Times, Letter to the Editor; > > "Need to Refute the Deniers of the Holocaust" > by Deborah Lipstadt. > > "Jean Claude Pressac's book detailing how the Nazis gas chambers at > Auschwitz actually worked has elicited condemnation from a variety of > sources contending that '"genocide was possible because it happened"'. > Deborah didn't fill the readers in on the first part of the quote for > some reason, but as it appears, her part of the quote elicits the idea > the quoter is agreeing with the story. > Anyway, the gist of her mentality and criteria for historical accuracy > lies in her statement "They argue Pressac's book is superfluous; the > tears of the survivors should be sufficient proof." > Let me reiterate Deborahs terse statement on historical accounting; > > ; THE TEARS OF THE SURVIVORS SHOULD BE SUFFICIENT PROOF". Ah, but that's NOT the "gist of her mentality" at all--it is, in fact, a position that she explicitly argues AGAINST, as the full text of her letter shows. Let's compare the full text of Dr. Lipstadt's letter with Mr. Moran's characterization of it, shall we? To the Editor: Jean Claude Pressac's book detailing how the Nazi gas chambers at Auschwitz actually worked (news article, Oct. 28, Week in Review Oct 31) has elicited condemnation from a variety of sources contending that "genocide was possible because it happened." They argue that Pressac's work is superfluous; the tears of the survivors should be sufficient proof. In the best of all possible worlds they would be right. The testimony of those who suffered as well as the corroboration of the perpetrators themselves would be the ultimate proof. But eventually the survivors will pass on and future generations will seek this documentation. Moreover, we live in a world where a small group of people, many of whom have an anti-Semitic and neo-fascist agenda, labor assiduously to convince future generations that the Holocaust was a hoax. Irrespective of their motives, their claims are utter nonsense. But as recent polls have shown, some people have been confused by them. They see the deniers as the "other side" of a debate. Mr. Pressac's book adds to the pre-existing mound of documentary evidence and testimony which describes how such a horror happened. I too have been challenged as to why I had to write a book exposing the background and methodology of the deniers. Had they been ignored from the outset, my book would also be superfluous. But too many people, including naive students and talk show hosts, treat them as an other "point of view." So a comprehensive analysis of the deniers was necessary. Deborah E. Lipstadt Atlanta, Nov. 2, 1993 (_NY Times_, Nov 8, 1993, p. A-18) It's rather different when you read the whole letter, isn't it? The line "the tears of the survivors should be sufficient proof" is NOT Lipstadt's "terse statement on historical accounting," as Mr. Moran puts it. The line is, instead, a position which Lipstadt attributes to critics of Pressac's book (and of her own work), and a position which she then goes on to argue is insufficient. The rest of her letter explains that physical documentary works such as Pressac's are vital supplements to the eyewitness testimony of both survivors and the perpetrators. So, congratulations, Mr. Moran. You have engaged in one of the very tactics which are the mark of Holocaust denial at its finest: quoting someone misleadingly and out of context. Will you now acknowledge that you have mischaracterized the contents of Dr. Lipstadt's letter? And will you perhaps apologize for that mischaracterization? Oh, and by the way, in a recent post, you said that "name-calling is childmindness." In reference to the heading you gave to this thread, wouldn't you agree that calling someone by a diminutive version of their name (and one that they don't themselves use) is a rather childish example of name calling? For example, calling Deborah Lipstadt "Debby"? I don't recall any opponents of Holocaust denial calling David Irving "Davy" or Arthur Butz "Artie." The usual convention is to refer to writers by their last names. >>>Posted and E-mailed. Followups to alt.revisionism, please. E-mailed replies to this message will be posted to Usenet unless otherwise requested by sender<<< ---------------------- Marty Kelley (mkelley@U.Arizona.EDU) "When Zsa Zsa Gabor represents a dose of reality, can madness be far behind?" --Griffy
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