Archive/File: holocaust/england/irving irving.data
Last-Modified: 1994/02/15

From ubc-cs!van-bc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!uunet!mcsun!dxcern!dscomsa.desy.de!zeus02.desy.de!hallam Tue Jul  7 13:35:11 PDT 1992
Article: 3908 of alt.conspiracy
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From: hallam@zeus02.desy.de (Phillip M. Hallam-Baker)
Subject: Irving Renouces Revisionism !!!
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Well for 75,000 quid wouldn't you?

There is currently a furrore over the imminent publication of the
Gobbels diaries by the Sunday Times. Editor Andrew Neil, surprisingly
undetered by the Sunday Time's previous involvment with NAZI diaries has
hired the guy who sold them the bogus `Hitler Diaries' to decipher the
Gobbels diaries.

Unfortunately for Irving the Gobbels diaries are undeniably genuine and
unequivocaly disprove the famous Irving claim that Hitler was not aware
of the Holocaust attrocities. Because of the publicity, every reputable
academic in the country is rushing to trash any claim by Irving to be a
reputable scholar.

The Gobbels diaries also detail the precise manner in which the NAZIs
orchestrated the Kristalnacht. Another B-CPU lie (that they did not) is
disproved.

Now in amongst all this I discovered the reason for the occasional B-CPU
claim that A.J.P. Taylor was a revisionist. This is in fact true, but
not in the sense that B-CPU claim. Revisionism is in fact a quite
legitimate process of re-evaluating the accepted view of history. The
claims of the IHR to be `revisionists' in the academic sense are as
bogus as the claims of a butcher to be a vbetinary surgeon on the
grounds that the both chop up animals. The IHR do not perform
dispassionate analysis of history with a view to revealing the truth,
they distort their sources to support their politicaly motivated claims.
Now A.J.P. Taylor was widely villified for claiming that Hitler did not
beleive that the UK and France would enter the war and that Hitler was
gambling that they would not in 1939 when he invaded Poland. The Gobbels
diaries substantiate this claim. In fact it is not so surprising, Hitler
was many things but a fool was not one of them. The invasion of Russia
could not hope to succeed if Hitler had to fight on two fronts. Equally
the attack on Russia does not make any sense unless conquoring  Russia
was a specific aim as opposed to being merely a part of a general
conquest of Europe which is the conventional view.

Note that the revisionism that Taylor proposed is entirely different to
the IHR revisionism. Taylor rejects an interpretation of facts, not the
facts themselves. His view is in no way an appoligia for the NAZIs,
Taylors opinion that the NAZIs were not confident of an easy conquest of
France and that they gambled that the UK and France would not fight
before Germany became invulnerable is hardly complimentary to the NAZIs.
I would not term it gambling so much as wishfull thinking.


Phill Hallam-Baker




From ubc-cs!destroyer!uunet!spool.mu.edu!wupost!csus.edu!netcom.com!sheaffer Sat Sep 12 23:43:03 PDT 1992
Article: 966 of alt.revisionism
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From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer)
Subject: Re: Oops, David (not John) Irving Predicts 'Year of the Revisionist'
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Date: Sun, 13 Sep 92 05:11:13 GMT
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David Irving is a British author of books on popular history who has long
been regarded as at least somewhat pro-Hitler in his sympathies. Now
he has cast his lot completely with those who say that "the gas chambers
never existed," and has gone on record with a bold prediction.

>From the Newsletter of the "Institute for Historical Review", July-Aug., 
1992, p.5:

  Irving is convinced that the tide of history is with the Revisionists.
  "It is going to be a hot twelve months," he recently told a reporter,
  "but at the end of it all, the gas chamber legend will have vanished
  once and for all."

  Within two years, he told a meeting in Hamburg last November, "this
  myth of mass murders of Jews in the death factories of Auschwitz,
  Majdanek and Treblinka, etc. etc., which in fact never took place ...
  this horrific ghost of guilt from which the German people have 
  suffered for the last 45 years, will be laid to rest."


All right, Mr. Irving, the clock is ticking.

-- 
  
        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com
  
 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!

       "Beware when the great God lets loose a thinker on this planet.
        Then all things are at risk. It is as when a conflagration has
        broken out in a great city, and no man knows what is safe, or
        where it will end."
                               - Emerson: Essay, "Circles"


-- 
  
        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com
  
 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!

       "Beware when the great God lets loose a thinker on this planet.
        Then all things are at risk. It is as when a conflagration has
        broken out in a great city, and no man knows what is safe, or
        where it will end."
                               - Emerson: Essay, "Circles"


From ubc-cs!utcsri!torn!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!wupost!waikato.ac.nz!comp.vuw.ac.nz!peponi.wcc.govt.nz!kosmos.wcc.govt.nz!quirke_a Mon Sep 14 03:21:05 PDT 1992
Article: 971 of alt.revisionism
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From: quirke_a@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: John Irving Predicts 'Year of the Revisionist'
Summary: Are neo-nazi movements on the rise ?
Message-ID: <1992Sep14.141946.1@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz>
Date: 14 Sep 92 02:19:46 GMT
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dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) writes:

> Yeh, well, Irving has made some other predictions this year, among them
> that antisemitic riots will start erupting everywhere because "people are
> tired with the lies of the Jews", that a bigger Germany, which will include
> Austria and Slovenia, will rise to dominate Europe, and that within a few
> years Israel will be destroyed.

   Hmm. There are currently neo-nazi riots going on in Germany, most probably
arising from economic depressions in what was East Germany. However of course,
there are also demonstrations expressing disgust with the neo-nazi movement as
well.
   Are there any indications of increased activity in neo-nazi movements in
other countries ?
   I rate it as highly doubtful anyone would want to assert a right to any part
of the Balkans at present. And Irving's prediction on Israel sounds like
wishful thinking rather than facing the facts. Then again, holocaust
revisionists seem vulnerable to this particular flaw.
   BTW are ARF or any of the B-CPU people posting on the Net still ? Perhaps
under different names ?

Tony Q.
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