From olk@login.dknet.dk Mon Mar 11 11:21:45 PST 1996 Article: 26922 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!helix.net!unixg.ubc.ca!news.bc.net!news.uoregon.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dish.news.pipex.net!pipex!news00.sunet.se!sunic!news99.sunet.se!cph-1.news.DK.net!dkuug!dknet!usenet From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Jewish Eyewitnesses Date: Sun, 10 Mar 1996 20:33:19 +0100 Organization: DKnet / EUnet Denmark - Login Tjenesten Lines: 111 Message-ID:NNTP-Posting-Host: login.dknet.dk The following are critical comments by mostly Jews about the credibility of the Jewish Holocaust eyewitnesses: "A large number of testimonials on file were later proved to be inaccurate when locations and dates could not pass an expert historian's appraisal" -Shmuel Krakowski Director of Archives, Yad Vashem, Israel. Interview in Jerusalem Post, 17th August 1986; page 1 "Much of personal [survivor] testimony is unreliable about names, location or dates... What survivors speak about most is their suffering. Samuel Gringauz, himself a survivor, had harsh words for these personal histories. In the January 1950 issue of Jewish Social Studies he called them "Judeocentric, logocentric and egocentric". For him, most of the memoires were full of 'preposterous verbosity, exaggeration, dramatic effects, dilettante philosophizing, would be lyricism, unchecked rumours, bias and apologies" -Raul Hilberg Interview in Jerusalem Post, International Edition, 28th June 1986; page 8 "A certain degree of reserve is necessary in handling all this material ... particular [survivor narratives]... the Eastern European Jew is a natural rhetorician, speaking in flowery similes...sometimes the imagery transcends credibility" -Gerald Reitlinger The Final Solution Sphere Books, London, 1971; page 581 "If Eichmann's name was mentioned at all, it was obviously hearsay evidence, "rumours testified to", hence without legal validity. The testimony of all witnesses who had "seen him with their own eyes" collapsed the moment a question was addressed to them" -Hannah Arendt Eichmann in Jerusalem Penguin Books, London, 1978; page 672 "But it is true that, along with many authentic works, there have been books or films which were only partly true, or even were partly faked. And unfortunately, even reputable historians often fail in their duty of care...for instance Martin Gilbert...in Final Journey" -Gitta Sereny New Statesman 2nd November 1979; page 672 "A very disturbing thing has happened to journalism, to the writing of history, and even to justice. In anything to do with the Nazis...any attempt at detachment is considered suspect, any degree of objectivity reprehensible...I have to battle in print against...men like Martin Gray (For Those I Loved) who use these appalling [Holocaust] events for self-aggrandisement...but attacking Gray causes wrathful indignation among Holocaust dogmatists" -Gitta Sereny London Review of Books 21st April 1988; page 3 "I know of no other case in which so many deviations from procedures internationally accepted as desirable occurred. "Every year on August 2 - the day of the uprising in Treblinka - some of survivors used to meet in Tel Aviv. Turowski, Goldfarb and Rosenfarb all lived in Israel, as did the witnesses who identified Demjanjuk in September and October: Czarny, Boraks and Lindwasser. Their testimony can be accepted only after it established that they did not meet with the other three. "Some doubts on the matter are justified because...the witnesses travelled together in the same aircraft to Fort Lauderdale, where the Fedorenko trial was held. They also stayed in the same hotel, had meals together, but were still supposed to make fully independent identifications. Boraks - who was not in full command of his memory when questioned in 1987 - declared when asked about the journey to Fort Lauderdale, that he went there by train." -Dr. William A. Wagenaar Identifying Ivan Harvard University Press, 1989; page 110 "...More detailed research [into the Holocaust] however mostly establishes only how shaky is the ground we're on; the consensus of research data often turns out only to be the result of everybody having uncritically copied what everybody else was writing; the actual documentary basis on many matters is frighteningly narrow and is in consequence easily shattered by some new find or other; in all too documentary basis on many matters we are still groping in total darkness. If we are to avert being scandalously shown up, in the next few years historical research is going to have to do all it can not only to establish better documentary defences but broader-based ones as well" Dr. Hans-Heinrich Wilhelm Offene Fragen der Holocaust-Fragen An unpublished paper delivered at a symposium at the University of Riga in September 1988. Posted by Ole kreiberg -- From olk@login.dknet.dk Sat Mar 16 08:48:26 PST 1996 Article: 27207 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.coast.net!news00.sunet.se!sunic!news99.sunet.se!cph-1.news.DK.net!dkuug!dknet!usenet From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Ole Kreiberg & the Krakowski Lie Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 13:45:12 +0100 Organization: DKnet / EUnet Denmark - Login Tjenesten Lines: 12 Message-ID: References: <-IqHnOev1WbQ065yn@login.dknet.dk> <4iapug$oj3@news.enter.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: login.dknet.dk In article <4iapug$oj3@news.enter.net>, Yale F. Edeiken wrote: >You smeared and slandered a fellow named Krakowski and seem not whit whit >apologetic about having done so. No why would I? I was acting in good faith trusting that the Jerusalem Post was a reliable source. And then stop calling me Nazi-boy. This is an outright libel. Ole Kreiberg -- From olk@login.dknet.dk Sun Mar 17 21:12:51 PST 1996 Article: 27355 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!lade.news.pipex.net!pipex!news00.sunet.se!sunic!news99.sunet.se!cph-1.news.DK.net!dkuug!dknet!usenet From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Ole Kreiberg & the Krakowski Lie Date: Sun, 17 Mar 1996 22:11:44 +0100 Organization: DKnet / EUnet Denmark - Login Tjenesten Lines: 23 Message-ID: References: <-IqHnOev1WbQ065yn@login.dknet.dk> <4iapug$oj3@news.enter.net> <199603170853.DAA06676@vixa.voyager.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: login.dknet.dk In article <199603170853.DAA06676@vixa.voyager.net>, Jamie McCarthy wrote: >(A copy of this message has also been posted to the following newsgroups: >alt.revisionism) > >olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg) wrote: > >> I was acting in good faith trusting that the Jerusalem >> Post was a reliable source. > >Not even Bradley Smith claims to have gotten the Krakowski error >directly from the Jerusalem Post. He admits that he got it from >revisionist friends or colleagues of his, and that it's been passed >around for a while. > >Where did you really get the quote, Mr. Kreiberg? Does it matter where I got the article from? It only counts whether the quote was authentic or not. Ole Kreiberg -- From olk@login.dknet.dk Sun Mar 17 21:12:52 PST 1996 Article: 27356 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!lade.news.pipex.net!pipex!news00.sunet.se!sunic!news99.sunet.se!cph-1.news.DK.net!dkuug!dknet!usenet From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Ole Kreiberg & the Krakowski Lie Date: Sun, 17 Mar 1996 22:18:53 +0100 Organization: DKnet / EUnet Denmark - Login Tjenesten Lines: 22 Message-ID: References: <4i1usk$mmn@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <-IqHnOev1WbQ065yn@login.dknet.dk> NNTP-Posting-Host: login.dknet.dk In article , Daniel Keren wrote: >olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg) writes: ># Anyway, this is typical for you anti-revisionist, you just sit ># there waiting for revisionists to make a small mistake and then ># abuse this to smear and slander them by calling them liars. > >Ah, shut your trap, you stupid little whiner. Go cry to your mommy. > I think that the reason that Daniel Keren always is so rude and insolent is that he hopes that he can provoke his counterparts to respond the same way. This give him the opportunity to air his Jewish paranoia by shouting about "anti-semitism" and "nazism". I remember he once provoked me to call him the master of abuse and distortion without mentioning his Jewish background and at once he made comparisons with Goebels. As so many other Jews he has got "nazis" on the brain. Oh now I have said something unfavourable about Jews so therefore I must be nasty a nazi and anti-semite, because the Jews cannot do anything wrong. Ole Kreiberg --
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