From: jamie@voyager.net (Jamie McCarthy)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Pierce a National Socialist?
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 13:11:45 -0500
Message-ID: 

Milton Kleim has repeatedly claimed that the National Alliance is
not a Nazi or neo-Nazi organization.  And just to be sure we're
talking about the same thing, by "Nazi" I mean "National Socialist."
(Kleim has also claimed that the term "Nazi" is derogative and means
something other than "National Socialist.")

Well, the following email just came across the "Stormfront" mailing
list, from the pseudonymous "murungu," also a fan of the National
Alliance.  He is discussing William Pierce, the leader (and founder,
I believe) of that group:

   From: murungu@interserv.com
   Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 20:09:09 -0800
   Subject: Re: National Socialism
    
   Are you saying Dr William Pierce is not a National Socialist?  He
   has always been so.  He spent years working within Lincoln
   Rockwell's ANP/NSWPP and is the author or editor of numerous NS
   tracts.  He also edited 'National Socialist World', a quarterly
   intellectual journal in the 1960s.  Dr Pierce is a National
   Socialist who lives in the present and who can clearly visualise the
   future, but does not live in the past although he understands it. 
   He is a personal example of National Socialism's flexibility and
   ability to evolve to meet new challenges.
   
   Dr Pierce does not flaunt swastikas or march around in a brownshirt
   [few NS people today do] but he is most definitely a National
   Socialist.

Mr. Kleim, do you still maintain that the National Alliance is not a
Nazi or neo-Nazi organization?

Posted/emailed.
-- 
 Jamie McCarthy          http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/
 jamie@voyager.net     Co-Webmaster of http://www.almanac.bc.ca/
 Unless you specify otherwise, I assume pro-"revisionism" email
 to be in the public domain.            I speak only for myself.




Date: Sat, 17 Feb 1996 03:43:47 GMT
From: Stormfront-l 
Subject: Re: National Socialism and Race

From: whitewil 
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 22:43:47 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: National Socialism and Race
 
 
Since certain posters to Stormfront prefer to characterize our dedicated 
Movement activists as "xenophopic" and "failures," in a manner so subtle 
as to go unchallenged; and since my own organization, the National 
Alliance, has been "lumped in" with all the "Nazis" & "Neo-Nazis" out 
there on the lunatic "fringe"; and since we're all "self-proclaimed 
Nazis" anyway, according to our accusers; and since I've never been known 
for being temperate when dealing with baiters, I offer the closest thing 
to "official policy" on the subject, from the NA Membership Handbook:
 
 pages 120-122 from ACTIVITIES: RECRUITING TIPS
 
        "4.g.v.10. Nazis and neo-Nazis:Inevitably, every member who
engages in public activity, so that he is recognized publicly as a 
member, will be asked, "Are you a Nazi?" or "Are you a neo-Nazi?" just as 
the National Alliance is routinely described in the controlled news media 
as a "Nazi (or  neo-Nazi) organization." (For those that make the 
distinction, the difference between "Nazi" and "neo-Nazi" seems to be 
this: The former term refers only to the National Socialist German 
Workers' Party and it's members. The latter term refers to organizations 
and people who draw their inspiration from the former, or from the same 
sources as the former, but which are too young to have been directly 
associated with the former. Many people, of course, make no distinction 
between the two terms.)
        "So how does a member answer the question? If he wants to give a 
meaningful answer, he must know what is in the mind of his interrogator. 
What is his interrogator's understanding of "Nazi"? If it's a Politically 
Correct bigot (which will be the case for anyone working for the 
controlled media), or even a typical "couch potato" whose ideas all came 
from a television tube, we know that he is thinking of sinister men in 
black uniforms and swastika armbands who like to click their heels 
together, thrust out their right arms, and shout "Sieg! Heil!" before 
marching off to gleefully machine-gun a group of prisoners who were 
arrested for listening to the wrong radio program or failing to have a 
photograph of the Fuhrer displayed in their living rooms. This mythical 
"Nazi" is an invention of the Jews who control the mass media, and so the 
member is perfectly correct in answering, "No, I am not a Nazi, and the 
National Alliance is not a Nazi organization."
        "Suppose, however, that the person asking the question is a 
potential recruit, someone with an open mind who really wants to 
understand our beliefs and goals. In this case we are obliged to explore 
the question more deeply, and in so doing we may have the opportunity to 
use one of the catchiest ideas of all: the idea of National Socialism.
        "Using this idea requires great care and good judgment. It is an 
idea which evokes such strong feelings that even some members cannot 
face it squarely. On the one hand there are those who are embarrassed 
by it and would be happier if the National Alliance would explicitly 
disavow it. On the other hand there are those who accept it 
wholeheartedly but are unable to distinguish between the idea itself 
and its specific manifestations in Germany between about 1920 and 1945. 
They are caught up not only in the idea but also in the mystique of 
Adolf Hitler and the National Socialist era in Germany, and there are 
very real dangers in this. For one thing, many of the latter people 
make a cult of National Socialism, with an emphasis on symbols, 
uniforms, insignia, rituals, and the like. The danger in this is that 
National Socialism becomes a hobby, and hobbyism becomes a substitute 
for effective action. And if we associate ourselves with the cult of 
National Socialism, as contrasted with the idea, we are forced to 
contend with the mythical image created by the Jews, for that will be 
the image raised in the mind of the average person who comes into 
contact with us.
        "It is largely for this reason that we have the admonitions 
elsewhere in this handbook against uniforms, quasi-uniforms, and 
insignia. Breaking through the wall of misunderstanding between us and 
the White public is a large enough task without raising the specter of 
made-in-Hollywood "Nazis." Even if there were no such negative image to 
overcome, however -- even if the Jews never had made an anti-Nazi film 
or television show-- it would be wrong for the Alliance to associate 
itself with the cult aspects of National Socialism in Germany prior to 
1945. Things that were natural and helped form a positive public image 
in Germany at that time seem unnatural and alien in America and many 
other parts of the White world today. For example, party uniforms were 
the accepted norm in Germany, not just for the National Socialists, 
but also for the Communists, the Catholic Centrists, and other 
political groupings. They never have been the norm in America.
        "The recruiter who is working with the right sort of potential 
member--and who himself has an adequate mastery of the subject--can 
use the National Socialist idea and the mystique associated with its 
manifestation in Germany as a powerful tool for opening the mind of 
his prospect to the Alliance message. Again, however, the greatest 
discretion is required.       
 
Hopefully, this will clarify things somewhat on this issue...WWW
 

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Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: Re: Pierce a National Socialist?
Message-ID: 
Date: Sat, 17 Feb 1996 02:06:04 GMT

Jamie McCarthy (jamie@voyager.net) writes:

> Milton Kleim has repeatedly claimed that the National Alliance is
> not a Nazi or neo-Nazi organization.  And just to be sure we're
> talking about the same thing, by "Nazi" I mean "National Socialist."
> (Kleim has also claimed that the term "Nazi" is derogative and means
> something other than "National Socialist.")

> Mr. Kleim, do you still maintain that the National Alliance is not a
> Nazi or neo-Nazi organization?

I'll let Dr. Pierce answer:

"Inevitably, every member who engages in public activity, so that he is
recognized publicly as a member, will be asked, "Are you a Nazi?" or, "Are
you a neo-Nazi?," just as the National Alliance is routinely described in
the controlled media as a "Nazi" (or "neo-Nazi") organization....

"So, how does a member answer this question?  If he wants to give a meaning-
ful answer, he must know what is in the mind of his interrogator: What is
his interrogator's understanding of "Nazi"?  If it's a Politically Correct
bigot (which will be the case for anyone working for the controlled
media), or even a typical "couch potato" whose ideas all came from a
television tube, we know that he is thinking of sinister-looking men in
black uniforms and swastika armbands who like to click their heels
together, thrust out their right arms, and shout "Sieg Heil!" before
marching off to gleefully machine-gun a group of prisoners who were
arrested for listening to the wrong radio program or failing to have a
photograph of the _Fuehrer_ displayed in their living rooms.  This
mythical "Nazi" is an invention of the Jews who control the mass media,
and so the member is perfectly correct in answering, "No, I am not a Nazi,
and the National Alliance is not a Nazi organization."




From: rich@c2.org (Rich Graves)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads,alt.politics.nationalism.white,mn.politics
Subject: Re: Pierce a National Socialist?
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 23:00:15 -0800
Organization: Uncensored Internet, http://www.c2.org/uncensored/
Message-ID: 

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In article , bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA
(Milton Kleim) wrote:

> Jamie McCarthy (jamie@voyager.net) writes:
> 
> > Milton Kleim has repeatedly claimed that the National Alliance is
> > not a Nazi or neo-Nazi organization.  And just to be sure we're
> > talking about the same thing, by "Nazi" I mean "National Socialist."
> > (Kleim has also claimed that the term "Nazi" is derogative and means
> > something other than "National Socialist.")
> 
> > Mr. Kleim, do you still maintain that the National Alliance is not a
> > Nazi or neo-Nazi organization?
> 
> I'll let Dr. Pierce answer:

Milton, you didn't finish the quote! You only gave the first two
paragraphs! I'm sure Dr. Pierce would be upset. This comes from the
National Alliance Membership Handboook, pages 120-122 from ACTIVITIES:
RECRUITING TIPS. The part you left out reads:

        "Suppose, however, that the person asking the question is a
potential recruit, someone with an open mind who really wants to
understand our beliefs and goals. In this case we are obliged to explore
the question more deeply, and in so doing we may have the opportunity to
use one of the catchiest ideas of all: the idea of National Socialism.
        "Using this idea requires great care and good judgment. It is an
idea which evokes such strong feelings that even some members cannot
face it squarely. On the one hand there are those who are embarrassed
by it and would be happier if the National Alliance would explicitly
disavow it. On the other hand there are those who accept it
wholeheartedly but are unable to distinguish between the idea itself
and its specific manifestations in Germany between about 1920 and 1945.
They are caught up not only in the idea but also in the mystique of
Adolf Hitler and the National Socialist era in Germany, and there are
very real dangers in this. For one thing, many of the latter people
make a cult of National Socialism, with an emphasis on symbols,
uniforms, insignia, rituals, and the like. The danger in this is that
National Socialism becomes a hobby, and hobbyism becomes a substitute
for effective action. And if we associate ourselves with the cult of
National Socialism, as contrasted with the idea, we are forced to
contend with the mythical image created by the Jews, for that will be
the image raised in the mind of the average person who comes into
contact with us.
        "It is largely for this reason that we have the admonitions
elsewhere in this handbook against uniforms, quasi-uniforms, and
insignia. Breaking through the wall of misunderstanding between us and
the White public is a large enough task without raising the specter of
made-in-Hollywood "Nazis." Even if there were no such negative image to
overcome, however -- even if the Jews never had made an anti-Nazi film
or television show-- it would be wrong for the Alliance to associate
itself with the cult aspects of National Socialism in Germany prior to
1945. Things that were natural and helped form a positive public image
in Germany at that time seem unnatural and alien in America and many
other parts of the White world today. For example, party uniforms were
the accepted norm in Germany, not just for the National Socialists,
but also for the Communists, the Catholic Centrists, and other
political groupings. They never have been the norm in America.
        "The recruiter who is working with the right sort of potential
member--and who himself has an adequate mastery of the subject--can
use the National Socialist idea and the mystique associated with its
manifestation in Germany as a powerful tool for opening the mind of
his prospect to the Alliance message. Again, however, the greatest
discretion is required.

- -rich
 Institute for Ernst Zundel Revisionism
 http://www.c2.org/~rich/Not_By_Me_Not_My_Views/

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