From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Nov  1 11:42:03 PST 1996
Article: 81965 of talk.politics.mideast
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: MEQ #8 : Pact with the devil
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <326DDE51.5A6D@cs.anu.edu.au>  <19961031221005550062@chara.anu.edu.au>
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 07:25:41 GMT
Lines: 34
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.israel:48546 talk.politics.mideast:81965

bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay)
# Daniel Keren  wrote:

## For fairness' sake, it should be pointed out that this
## was before any mass killing of Jews by the Nazis began.

# True, but Stern's efforts to establish contact with
# Germany continued for a full year after that.

Is there any strong documentation for that? This is still,
BTW, before the mass murders in the camps; I believe that
the extent of the "Einsatzgruppen" murders in the USSR,
which began on mid-1941, was not yet known.

Moreover, I cannot understand what people hope to prove
when they suggest that Stern "wanted to cooperate with the
Nazis". He wanted to put himself in a gas chamber? What?

You know well that Stern is no hero of mine, and I do not
mean to defend his ideology. However, can't the letter be
seen as, first and foremost, an effort to help the Jews
of Europe by moving them to Palestine?

# I think that it was the "real world" that Stern most
# positively failed to make contact with.

Indeed, and his ideological followers today suffer from
the same problem, unfortunately. But I still think it's
a misrepresentation to try and portray him as someone who
eagerly wanted to cooperate with the Nazis.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Nov  1 11:44:36 PST 1996
Article: 168285 of control
Control: cancel 
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: cancel
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Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 15:25:35 GMT
Lines: 1

 was cancelled from within trn.


From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Nov  1 11:52:38 PST 1996
Article: 78118 of alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Photographs from DACHAU Camp
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 14:45:46 GMT
Lines: 19

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/dachau/images

dachau01.jpg
Corpses of the inmates.

dachau02.jpg, dachau03.jpg:
Mass graves of murdered inmates near Dachau.

dachau04.jpg
Letter about conducting medical experiments in Dachau.

MedExp02.jpg
An inmate subjected to low-pressure experiment in Dachau.

MedExp04.jpg
An inmate subjected to freezing experiment in Dachau.


-Danny Keren


From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Nov  1 11:52:39 PST 1996
Article: 78119 of alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Photograph: Document About Killing With Poison Gas Jews 'Unfit For Work'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 14:49:16 GMT
Lines: 15

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/w/wetzel.erhard/images/
wetzel-lohse-01.jpg

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/w/wetzel.erhard/images/
wetzel-lohse-02.jpg

Two pages of letter from Dr. Erhard Wetzel to Reichskommissar 
Lohse, October 25, 1941, about murdering Jews "unfit for
work" using poison gas.

Translation in
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/w/wetzel.erhard/wetzel.102541


-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Nov  1 11:52:41 PST 1996
Article: 78120 of alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Photographs: EINSATZGRUPPEN Massacres
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 14:47:55 GMT
Lines: 23

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?orgs/german/einsatzgruppen/images

eg-01.jpg, eg-02.jpg, eg-03.jpg, eg-04.jpg, eg-05.jpg
Einsatzgruppen massacres in Nazi-occupied USSR.

eg-06.jpg
Pyre of corpses ready to be set on fire.

eg-07.jpg
Mass grave.

eg-map.jpg
Part of a report detailing murder of Jews in the Nazi occupied 
Baltic states and White Russia by Einsatzgruppe (special action
unit) A, submitted at February 1, 1942. Includes figures of
Jews murdered by the Einsatzgruppen.

report-51.jpg
Letter from Himmler. Mentions 363,211 Jews murdered during 4 
months in 1942.


-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Nov  1 12:24:25 PST 1996
Article: 78132 of alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: question for D. Keren
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <550onv$78h@Vir.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 22:47:10 GMT
Lines: 24

Jean-Francois Beaulieu  writes:

# Recently, Daniel Keren wrote:

## Gaskammern.jpg
## Construction document which mentions a "gas chamber"
## (Gaskammer) in Krema no. 5 in Birkenau.

# What's this document?

Well, as I said, it's a construction document which
mentions a "gas chamber" (Gaskammer) in Krema no. 5
in Birkenau.

# I've take a look and the image is very pale,  nowere I
# saw the word 'gaskammer' in the typewritten part and the
# handwritten part is illisible.

It's right there in item 5. It may be better to download
it and watch than to view it using netscape.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Nov  1 18:21:25 PST 1996
Article: 78192 of alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The Hoess Testimony BITES THE DUST!!!!
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <54akkc$1q3e$2@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net> <550hd2$2iti$2@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <3273D9D5.134C@kaiwan.com> <553tsk$e1f@Vir.com>
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 19:34:55 GMT
Lines: 21

Jean-Francois Beaulieu  babbles:

[Regarding SS-men who testified about the gas chambers]

# They have several others, but others who could
# hardly denie gassings in court since Hoess brought
# the 'proof' before them.

Sorry, monkey-boy. No banana for you here.

Hoess was captured on March 11, 1946. The Belsen-Auschwitz
trial, in which SS-men and women from Auschwitz testified about
the gas chambers (including three top officers from the camp,
Kramer, Hoessler, and Dr. Klein) - ended in November 17, 1945.

This is, of course, not the only reason why your argument
is stupid beyond belief. It's simply the most striking one.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Nov  2 09:31:06 PST 1996
Article: 78209 of alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: **************** G I W E R   R U L E S  ***************************************************
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32793cdd.441542@news.zippo.com>
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 06:55:54 GMT
Lines: 13

ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter) writes:

# Giwer achieves his goals, I'm sure.

So how come he can't find a job?

He's only 51-years-old. He claims to have an IQ
of 163. He has posted that he's unemployed since
the age of 46.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Nov  2 14:26:05 PST 1996
Article: 78282 of alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'I was responsible for the ventilation systems'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 20:36:17 GMT
Lines: 35

Testimony of Engineer Karl Schultze
[Quoted from the interrogation transcripts by Prof. Gerald Fleming
>from  the University of Surrey, in an NYT article, July 18 1993]
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Q. What was your personal part in these "Krema" building operation and
   what was Prufer's part?
 
A. Prufer was an expert. he designed and constructed these
   crematoriums and led the building operations in the concentration 
   camps. I was responsible for the ventilation systems and for its air 
   injection into the muffles. In specific instances, I led the 
   installation operations personally. I personally led the installation 
   work in Auschwitz crematoriums and gas chambers. For this purpose, I 
   traveled to Auschwitz three times in 1943.
 .
 .
 .
 
   I did not know that in the crematoriums in Auschwitz-Birkenau
   innocent human beings were being liquidated. I thought criminals were 
   being killed there who who had partly been sentenced to death because 
   of the crimes they had committed against the German army in Poland and 
   other occupied territories. I am a German and supported and am 
   supporting the Government in Germany and the laws of our Government. 
   Whoever opposes our laws is an enemy of the State, because our laws 
   establish him a such. I did not act on personal initiative but as 
   directed by Ludwig Topf. I was afraid of losing my position and of 
   possible arrest.
 
Q. Your views do not really differ from the views of a Nazi.
 
A. No, I was not a member of the NSDAP [National Socialist German
   Workers Party]. I only respected and acted according to the laws of 
   my country.
 


From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Nov  2 14:26:05 PST 1996
Article: 78290 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: The Murder of the Gypsies in Birkenau, I
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 20:28:59 GMT
Lines: 48

Quoted from "Auschwitz: A Report on the Proceedings Against Robert Karl
Ludwig Mulka and Others Before the Court at Frankfurt", By Bernd 
Naumann, 1966, published by Frederick A. Praeger, NY.
 
 
 From the testimony of Maximilian Sternol (p. 114):
--------------------------------------------------
"...It was the liquidation of the Gypsy compound. Terrible scenes took 
place. Women and children were on their knees in front of Mengele and
Boger crying, 'Take pity, take pity on us'. Nothing helped. They were
beaten down brutally, trampled on, and pushed on the trucks. It was a
terrible, gruesome night".
 
"Did Boger also hit them?".
 
"Yes, he killed them. They collapsed and died and were thrown on the 
trucks. The entire political section was there. Yes, I saw Baretzki
and Broad".
 


 From the testimony of Josef Piwko (p. 123):
-------------------------------------------
"It happened about three to four weeks after the events in the Czech
compound [Theresienstat]. The children frequently came to the barbed
wire and we would give them little things. Then one day the trucks 
came, and there was great excitement in the camp, because the Gypsies
now knew they that they were to be gassed. They had a good intelligence
network because the SS men had pretty Gypsy girls and they told them 
a lot of things".
 
The witness tells how he hid in the bushes and saw that the Gypsies
were beaten as they were herded onto the trucks and driven off to the
gas chambers. Then the SS men searched the barracks and dragged out
about six children between the ages of four and seven.
 
"They were brought before Boger, who first trampled on them, then 
grabbed their little legs and smashed their heads against the wall".
 

 
[Boger and Baretzki were sentenced to life imprisonment for taking
part in numerous murders at Auschwitz. Broad was sentenced to 4 years.
Dr. Mengele fled after the war and, apparently, died in South-America
in the mid 1980's].
 
 
-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Nov  2 14:26:06 PST 1996
Article: 78291 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: The Murder of the Gypsies in Birkenau, II
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 20:31:10 GMT
Lines: 32

Philip Mueller writes about the murder of the Gypsies in Birkenau
[Quoted from "Auschwitz Inferno", p. 151]
-----------------------------------------------------------------
One could see that most of the SS-men had a bad conscience. They
hadn't shown any scruples about annihilating Jews, the killing
of whom was now a daily routine for all of them, yet they clearly
found it unpleasant and distressing to help exterminate people
with whom they had been on quite good terms up to now. But in
this dismal place there was no room for sentiment. The
extermination routine took its usual course. [Hauptscharfuehrer]
Moll and his helpers cocked their pistols and rifles and, in a 
way that allowed no misunderstanding, asked the people, who
in the meanwhile had undressed, to leave the changing room at
once and go into those rooms in which they were to be gassed.
As they took their last walk, many wept in despair, others
crossed themselves and prayed to God, and yet others, who even
now were unwilling to come to terms with their inevitable fate,
turned to the SS-men and, gesticulating wildly, shouted without
stopping: "We are German citizens! You can't do this to us!".

For a while desperate shouts and cries could be heard coming from
the gas chambers until the gas had done its deadly work and chocked
the last voice.




-Danny Keren.






From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Nov  2 14:26:07 PST 1996
Article: 78292 of alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Jager Reports: Five Months, One Unit, 137,000 Murdered
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 20:32:55 GMT
Lines: 374

Among all the Nazi documents detailing dastardly acts of mass
murder and other forms of barbarism, the "Jager Report" is
perhaps one of the most horrifying.

Written by SS-Standartenfuehrer (Colonel) Jager, commander of one 
of the "Einsatzkommandos" (EK 3), it provides a very detailed,
blood-curling account of the murderous rampage of this "special
squad" in Nazi-occupied USSR. Usually, the figures for Jews who were
murdered by EK 3 are broken into "Jewish men", "Jewish women", and
"Jewish children".

To understand the magnitude of the massacres, note the total number 
of victims - 137,346. This is for one Einsatkommando, in a five month
period, in one area. This report reflects very clearly on the plan
to kill all the Jews, except those who were needed for working
purposes; those were, as the report notes, "only" to be sterilized;
Jager goes on to state that "if despite sterilization a Jewess
becomes pregnant she will be liquidated".


Detailed report by SS-Standartenfuehrer Jager about mass killings
in Nazi occupied USSR, July-November 1941
['The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The Free Press, 
NY, 1988, p. 46-58].
------------------------------------------------------------------

The Commander of
the security police and
the SD
Einsatzkommando 3     Kauen [Kaunas], 1 December 1941

--------------------------
|Secret Reich Business!  |             5 copies
--------------------------             4th copy

      Complete list of executions carried out in the EK 3 area
      up to 1 December 1941

Security police duties in Lithuania taken over by Einsatzkommando 3 on
2 July 1941.
(The Wilna [Vilnius] area was taken over by EK 3 on 9 Aug. 1941, the
Schaulen area on 2 Oct. 1941. Up until these dates EK 9 operated in
Wilna and EK 2 in Schaulen.)
On my instructions and orders the following executions were conducted by
Lithuanian partisans:

4.7.41       Kauen-Fort VII    416 Jews, 47  Jewesses                463
6.7.41       Kauen-Fort VII    Jews                                  2,514

Following the formation of a raiding squad under the command of
SS-Obersturmfuherer Hamman and 8-10 reliable men from the
Einsatzkommando. the following actions were conducted in cooperation
with Lithuanian partisans:

7.7.41       Mariampole        Jews                                  32
8.7.41       Mariampole        14 Jews, 5 Comm. officials            19
8.7.41       Girkalinei        Comm. officials                       6
9.7.41       Wendziogala       32 Jews, 2 Jewesses, 1 Lithuanian
                               (f.), 2 Lithuanian Comm., 1
                               Russian Comm.                         38
9.7.41       Kauen-Fort VII    21 Jews, 3 Jewesses                   24
14.7.41      Mariampole        21 Jews, 1 Russ., 9 Lith. Comm.       31
17.7.41      Babtei            8 Comm. officials (incl. 6 Jews)       8
18.7.41      Mariampole        39 Jews, 14 Jewesses                  53
19.7.41      Kauen-Fort VII    17 Jews, 2 Jewesses, 4 Lith.
                               Comm., 2 Comm. Lithuanians (f.),
                               1 German Comm.                        26
21.7.41      Panevezys         59 Jews, 11 Jewesses, 1
                               Lithuanian (f.), 1 Pole, 22 Lith.
                               Comm., 9 Russ. Comm.                  103
22.7.41      Panevezys         1 Jew                                 1
23.7.41      Kedainiai         83 Jews, 12 Jewesses, 14 Russ.
                               Comm., 15 Lith. Comm., 1 Russ.
                               O-Politruk                            125
25.7.41      Mariampole        90 Jews, 13 Jewesses                  103
28.7.41      Panevezys         234 Jews, 15 Jewesses, 19 Russ.
                               Comm., 20 Lith. Comm.                 288

                                      Total carried forward        3,384


Sheet 2
                                      Total carried over           3,384

29.7.41      Rasainiai         254 Jews, 3 Lith. Comm.               257
30.7.41      Agriogala         27 Jews, 11 Lith. Comm.               38
31.7.41      Utena             235 Jews, 16 Jewesses, 4 Lith.
                               Comm., 1 robber/murderer              256
31.7.41      Wendziogala       13 Jews, 2 murderers                  15
1.8.41       Ukmerge           254 Jews, 42 Jewesses, 1 Pol.
                               Comm., 2 Lith. NKVD agents, 1
                               mayor of Jonava who gave order
                               to set fire to Jonava                 300
2.8.41       Kauen-Fort IV     170 Jews, 1 US Jewess, 33 Jewesses,
                               4 Lith. Comm.                         209
4.8.41       Panevezys         362 Jews, 41 Jewesses, 5 Russ. Comm.,
                               14 Lith. Comm.                        422
5.8.41       Rasainiai         213 Jews, 66  Jewesses                279
7.8.41       Utena             483 Jews, 87 Jewesses, 1 Lithuanian
                               (robber of corpses of German soldiers)571
8.8.41       Ukmerge           620 Jews, 82 Jewesses                 702
9.8.41       Kauen-Fort IV     484 Jews, 50 Jewesses                 534
11.8.41      Panevezys         450 Jews, 48 Jewesses, 1 Lith. 1 Russ.500
13.8.41      Alytus            617 Jews, 100 Jewesses, 1 criminal    719
14.8.41      Jonava            497 Jews, 55 Jewesses                 552
15-16.8.41   Rokiskis          3,200 Jews, Jewesses, and J. Children,
                               5 Lith. Comm., 1 Pole, 1 partisan     3207
9-16.8.41    Rasainiai        294 Jewesses, 4 Jewish children       298
27.6-14.8.41 Rokiskis          493 Jews, 432 Russians, 56 Lithuanians
                               (all active communists)               981
18.8.41      Kauen-Fort IV     689  Jews, 402 Jewesses, 1 Pole (f.),
                               711 Jewish intellectuals from Ghetto
                               in reprisal for sabotage action       1,812
19.8.41      Ukmerge           298 Jews, 255 Jewesses, 1 Politruk,
                               88 Jewish children, 1 Russ. Comm.     645
22.8.41      Dunanburg          3 Russ. Comm., 5 Latvian, incl. 1
                               murderer, 1 Russ. Guardsman, 3 Poles,
                               3 gypsies (m.), 1 gypsy (f.), 1 gypsy
                               child, 1 Jew, 1 Jewess, 1 Armenian
                               (m.), 2 Politruks (prison inspection
                               in Dunanburg                          21


                                      Total carried forward        16,152


Sheet 3
                                      Total carried forward        16,152

22.8.41      Aglona            Mentally sick: 269 men, 227 women,
                               48 children                           544
23.8.41      Panevezys         1,312 Jews, 4,602 Jewesses, 1,609
                               Jewish children                       7,523
18-22.8.41   Kreis Rasainiai   466 Jews, 440 Jewesses, 1,020
                               Jewish children                       1,926
25.8.41      Obeliai           112 Jews, 627 Jewesses, 421
                               Jewish children                       1,160
25-26.8.41   Seduva            230 Jews, 275 Jewesses, 159
                               Jewish children                       664
26.8.41      Zarasai           767 Jews, 1,113 Jewesses, 1 Lith.
                               Comm., 687 Jewish children, 1 Russ.
                               Comm. (f.)                            2,569
28.8.41      Pasvalys          402 Jews, 738 Jewesses, 209
                               Jewish children                       1,349
26.8.41      Kaisiadorys       All Jews, Jewesses, and Jewish
                               children                              1,911
27.8.41      Prienai           All Jews, Jewesses, and Jewish
                               Children                              1,078
27.8.41      Dagda and         212 Jews, 4 Russ. POW's               216
             Kraslawa
27.8.41      Joniskia          47 Jews, 165 Jewesses, 143
                               Jewish children                       355
28.8.41      Wilkia            76 Jews, 192 Jewesses, 134
                               Jewish children                       402
28.8.41      Kedainiai         710 Jews, 767 Jewesses, 599
                               Jewish children                       2,076
29.8.41      Rumsiskis and     20 Jews, 567 Jewesses, 197
             Ziezmariai        Jewish children                       784
29.8.41      Utena and         582 Jews, 1,731 Jewesses, 1,469
             Moletai           Jewish children                       3,782
13-31.8.41   Alytus and
             environs          233 Jews                              233

1.9.41       Mariampole        1,763 Jews, 1,812 Jewesses, 1,404
                               Jewish children, 109 mentally sick,
                               1 German subject (f.), married to a
                               Jew, 1 Russian (f.)                   5090

                                      Total carried over           47,814


Sheet 4
                                      Total carried over           47,814

28.8-2.9.41  Darsuniskis       10 Jews, 69 Jewesses, 20
                               Jewish children                       99
             Carliava          73 Jews, 113 Jewesses, 61
                               Jewish children                       247
             Jonava            112 Jews, 1,200 Jewesses, 244
                               Jewish children                       1,556
             Petrasiunai       30 Jews, 72 Jewesses, 23
                               Jewish children                       125
             Jesuas            26 Jews, 72 Jewesses, 46
                               Jewish children                       144
             Agriogala          207 Jews, 260 Jewesses, 195
                               Jewish children                       662
             Jasvainai         86 Jews, 110 Jewesses, 86
                               Jewish children                       282
             Babtei            20 Jews, 41 Jewesses, 22
                               Jewish children                       83
             Wendziogala        42 Jews, 113 Jewesses, 97
                               Jewish children                       252
             Krakes            448 Jews, 476 Jewesses, 97
                               Jewish children                       1,125
4.9.41       Pravenischkis     247 Jews, 6 Jewesses                  253
             Cekiske           22 Jews, 64 Jewesses, 60
                               Jewish children                       146
             Seredsius         6 Jews, 61 Jewesses, 126
                               Jewish children                       193
             Velinona          2 Jews, 71 Jewesses, 86
                               Jewish children                       159
             Zapiskis          47 Jews, 118 Jewesses, 13
                               Jewish children                       178
5.9.41       Ukmerge           1,123 Jews, 1,849 Jewesses, 1,737
                               Jewish children                       4,709
25.8-6.9.41  Mopping up in:    16 Jews, 412 Jewesses, 415
             Rasainiai         Jewish children                       843
             Georgenburg       all Jews, all Jewesses, all
                               Jewish children                       412
9.9.41       Alytus            287 Jews, 640 Jewesses, 352
                               Jewish children                       1,279
9.9.41       Butrimonys        67 Jews, 370 Jewesses, 303
                               Jewish children                       740
10.9.41      Merkine           223 Jews, 640 Jewesses, 276
                               Jewish children                       854
10.9.41      Varena            541 Jews, 141 Jewesses, 149
                               Jewish children                       831
11.9.41      Leipalingis       60 Jews, 70 Jewesses, 25
                               Jewish children                       155
11.9.41      Seirijai          229 Jews, 384 Jewesses, 340
                               Jewish children                       953
12.9.41      Simnas            68 Jews, 197 Jewesses, 149
                               Jewish children                       414
11-12.9.41   Uzusalis          Reprisal against inhabitants who
                               fed Russ. partisans; some in
                               possession of weapons                  43
26.9.41      Kauen-F.IV        412 Jews, 615 Jewesses, 581
                               Jewish children (sick and
                               suspected epidemic cases)             1,608

                                      Total carries over           66,159


Sheet 5
                                      Total carried over           66,159

2.10.41      Zagare            633 Jews, 1,107 Jewesses, 496
                               Jewish children (as these Jews were
                               being led away a mutiny rose, which
                               was however immediately put down;
                               150 Jews were shot immediately; 7
                               partisans wounded)                    2,236
4.10.41      Kauen-F.IX        315 Jews, 712 Jewesses, 818
                               Jewish children (reprisal after
                               German police officer shot in ghetto) 1,845
29.10.41     Kauen-F.IX        2,007 Jews, 2,920 Jewesses, 4,273
                               Jewish children (mopping up ghetto
                               of superfluous Jews)                  9,200
3.11.41      Lazdijai          485 Jews, 511 Jewesses, 539
                               Jewish children                       1,535
15.11.41     Wilkowiski        36 Jews, 48 Jewesses, 31
                               Jewish children                       115
25.11.41     Kauen-F.IX        1,159 Jews, 1,600 Jewesses, 175
                               Jewish children (resettlers from
                               Berlin, Munich and Frankfurt am main) 2,934
29.11.41     Kauen-F.IX        693 Jews, 1,155 Jewesses, 152
                               Jewish children (resettlers from
                               from Vienna and Breslau)              2,000
29.11.41     Kauen-F.IX        17 Jews, 1 Jewess, for contravention
                               of ghetto law, 1 Reichs German who
                               converted to the Jewish faith and
                               attended rabbinical school, then 15
                               terrorists from the Kalinin group     34

EK 3 detachment in Dunanburg
in the period 13.7-21.8.41:    9,012 Jews, Jewesses and Jewish
                               children, 573 active Comm.            9,585

EK 3 detachment in Wilna:
12.8-1.9.41  City of Wilna     425 Jews, 19 Jewesses, 8 Comm. (m.),
                               9 Comm. (f.)                          461
2.9.41       City of Wilna     864 Jews, 2,019 Jewesses, 817
                               Jewish children (sonderaktion because
                               German soldiers shot at by Jews)      3,700

                                      Total carried forward        99,084


sheet 6

                                      Total carried forward        99,804

12.9.41      City of Wilna     993 Jews, 1,670 Jewesses, 771
                               Jewish children                       3,334
17.9.41      City of Wilna     337 Jews, 687 Jewesses, 247
                               Jewish children and 4 Lith. Comm.     1,271
20.9.41      Nemencing         128 Jews, 176 Jewesses, 99
                               Jewish children                       403
22.9.41      Novo-Wilejka      468 Jews, 495 Jewesses, 196
                               Jewish children                       1,159
24.9.41      Riess             512 Jews, 744 Jewesses, 511
                               Jewish children                       1,767
25.9.41      Jahiunai          215 Jews, 229 Jewesses, 131
                               Jewish children                       575
27.9.41      Eysisky           989 Jews, 1,636 Jewesses, 821
                               Jewish children                       3,446
30.9.41      Trakai            366 Jews, 483 Jewesses, 597
                               Jewish children                       1,446
4.10.41      City of Wilna     432 Jews, 1,115 Jewesses, 436
                               Jewish children                       1,983
6.10.41      Semiliski         213 Jews, 359 Jewesses, 390
                               Jewish children                       962
9.10.41      Svenciany         1,169 Jews, 1,840 Jewesses, 717
                               Jewish children                       3,726
16.10.41     City of Wilna     382 Jews, 507 Jewesses, 257
                               Jewish children                       1,146
21.10.41     City of Wilna     718 Jews, 1,063 Jewesses, 586
                               Jewish children                       2,367
25.10.41     City of Wilna     1,776 Jewesses, 812 Jewish children   2,578
27.10.41     City of Wilna     946 Jews, 184 Jewesses, 73
                               Jewish children                       1,203
30.10.41     City of Wilna     382 Jews, 789 Jewesses, 362
                               Jewish children                       1,553
6.11.41      City of Wilna     340 Jews, 749 Jewesses, 252
                               Jewish children                       1,341
19.11.41     City of Wilna     76 Jews, 77 Jewesses, 18
                               Jewish children                       171
19.11.41     City of Wilna     6 POW's, 8 Poles                      14
20.11.41     City of Wilna     3 POW's                               3
25.11.41     City of Wilna     9 Jews, 46 Jewesses, 8 Jewish
                               children, 1 Pole for possession of arms
                               and other military equipment          64

EK 3 detachment in Minsk from
28.9-17.10.41:

             Pleschnitza       620 Jews, 1,285 Jewesses,
             Bischolin         1,126 Jewish children and 19
             Scak              Comm.
             Bober
             Uzda                                                    3,050
                                                                     --------
                                                                     133,346
Prior to EK 3 taking over security police duties, Jews liquidated
by pogroms and executions (including partisans)                      4,000
                                                                  -----------
                                                             Total 137,346


Today I can confirm that our objective, to solve the Jewish problem for
Lithuania, has been achieved by EK 3. In Lithuania there are no more
Jews, apart from Jewish workers and their families.

 .
 .
 .

The distance between from the assembly point to the graves was on average
4 to 5 Km.

 .
 .
 .

I consider the Jewish action more or less terminated as far as
Einsatzkommando 3 is concerned. Those working Jews and Jewesses still
available are needed urgently and I can envisage that after the winter
this workforce will be required even more urgently. I am of the view
that the sterilization program of the male worker Jews should be
started immediately so that reproduction is prevented. If despite
sterilization a Jewess becomes pregnant she will be liquidated.

 .
 .
 .

(signed) Jager
SS-Standartenfuehrer




-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Nov  2 14:26:08 PST 1996
Article: 78293 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Photographs from AUSCHWITZ Camp
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 20:41:26 GMT
Lines: 49

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz/images/

furnace-capacity.jpg
Letter from Jahrling to Kammler, stating that the combined
crematoriums in Auschwitz-Birkenau can cremate 4,756 corpses
in 24 working hours.

Vergasungskeller.jpg
Document mentioning the "gassing cellar" in Krema II in
Birkenau.

Gas_Detector.jpg
Letter asking to deliver detectors for cyanide gas to
crematorium in Birkenau.

Krema4.jpg
Crematorium no. 4 in Birkenau.

krema5-01.jpg
Crematorium no. 5 in Birkenau.

auschwitz03.jpg, auschwitz04.jpg
Murdered inmates in Auschwitz-Birkenau.

auschwitz05.jpg
Young Polish children imprisoned in Auschwitz.

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/mengele.josef/
images/Mengele.jpg
Gypsy children, tortured by SS doctor Mengele during his
"medical experiments" in Auschwitz.

Gaskammern.jpg
Construction document which mentions a "gas chamber"
(Gaskammer) in Krema no. 5 in Birkenau.

burning-pit.jpg
Corpses of victims killed in the gas chambers are burned
outside of Krema no. 5. Photograph taken in the summer of
1944, when the Hungarian Jews were murdered at such a rate
that the cremation furnaces could not handle the number
of corpses.

Furnace.jpg
Cremation furnaces in a Birknenau crematorium.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Nov  2 16:20:45 PST 1996
Article: 170728 of control
Control: cancel 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,fl.general,alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: cancel
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Distribution: X-no-archive: yes
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 20:18:22 GMT
Lines: 1

 was cancelled from within trn.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Nov  2 23:15:28 PST 1996
Article: 78317 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'The strain on the furnaces was colossal'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 20:27:09 GMT
Lines: 53


Kurt Prufer, senior engineer of Topf and Sohne, testifying in Erfurt,
Germany, March 5, 1946
[Quoted from the interrogation transcripts by Prof. Gerald Fleming
>from  the University of Surrey, in an NYT article, July 18 1993]
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Q. Who apart from you participated in the construction of the furnaces?
 
A. From 1941-2, I constructed the furnaces. The technical drawings were
   done by Mr. Keller. The ventilation systems of the "Kremas" 
   [crematoriums] were constructed by senior engineer Karl Schultze.
 
Q. How often and with what aim did you visit Auschwitz?
 
A. Five times. The first time at the beginning of 1943, to receive orders
   of the SS Command where the Kremas were to be built. The second time in
   spring 1943 to inspect the building site. The third time was in autumn
   1943 to inspect a fault in the construction of a Krema chimney. The
   forth time at the beginning of 1944, to inspect the repaired chimney. the
   fifth time in September-October 1944, when I visited Auschwitz with the
   intended relocation [from Auschwitz] of the crematoriums, since the
   front was getting nearer. The crematoriums were not relocated, because 
   there were not enough workers.
 
Q. Were you the sole Topf engineer in Auschwitz in spring 1943?
 
A. No, [senior engineer Karl] Schultze was with me in Auschwitz at the time.
   I saw personally about 60 corpses of women and men of different ages,
   which were being prepared for incineration.  That was at 10 in the 
   morning. I witnessed the incineration of six corpses and and came to the
   conclusion that the furnaces were working well.
 
Q. Did you see a gas chamber next to the crematoriums?
 
A. Yes, I did see one next to the crematorium. Between the gas chamber and
   the crematorium there was a connecting structure.
 
Q. Did you know that in the gas chamber and in the crematoriums there took
   place the liquidation of innocent human beings?
 
A. I have known since spring 1943 that innocent human beings were being
   liquidated in Auschwitz gas chambers and that their corpses were 
   subsequently incinerated in the crematoriums.
 
Q. Who is the designer of the ventilation systems for the gas chambers?
 
A. Schultze was the designer of the ventilation systems in the gas chambers;
   and he installed them.
 
Q. Why was the brick lining of the muffles so quickly damaged?
 
A. The bricks were damaged after six months because the strain on the
   furnaces was colossal.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Nov  2 23:15:29 PST 1996
Article: 78318 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!news.texoma.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!EU.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'Wirth came to Treblinka and kicked up a terrific row'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 20:24:33 GMT
Lines: 47

Willi Mentz testifies about his days in Treblinka
[Quoted in 'The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The 
Free Press, NY, 1988., p. 245-247]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
When I came to Treblinka the camp commandant was a doctor named Dr. Eberl.
He was very ambitious. It was said that he ordered more transports
than could be "processed" in the camp. That meant that trains had to
wait outside the camp because the occupants of the previous transport
had not yet all been killed. At the time it was very hot and as a
result of the long wait inside the transport trains in the intense
heat many people died. At the time whole mountains of bodies lay on
the platform. The Hauptsturmfuehrer Christian Wirth came to Treblinka
and kicked up a terrific row. And then one day Dr.  Eberl was no
longer there...

For about two months I worked in the upper section of the camp and
then after Eberl had gone everything in the camp was reorganized. The
two parts of the camp were separated by barbed wire fences. Pine
branches were used so that you could not see through the fences. The
same thing was done along the route from the "transfer" area to the
gas chambers...

Finally, new and larger gas chambers were built. I think that there
were now five or six larger gas chambers. I cannot say exactly how
many people these large gas chambers held. If the small gas chambers
could hold 80-100 people, the large ones could probably hold twice
that number...

Following the arrival of a transport, six to eight cars would be
shunted into the camp, coming to a halt at the platform there. The
commandant, his deputy Franz, Kuettner and Stadie or Maetzig would be
here waiting as the transport came in. Further SS members were also
present to supervise the unloading: for example, Genz and Belitz had
to make absolutely sure that there was no one left in the car after
the occupants had been ordered to get out.

When the Jews had got off, Stadie or Maetzig would have a short word
with them.  They were told something to the effect that they were a
resettlement transport, that they would be given a bath and that they
would receive new clothes. They were also instructed to maintain quiet
and discipline. They would continue their journey the following day.

Then the transports were taken off to the so-called "transfer" area.
The women had to undress in huts and the men out in the open. The
women were than led through a passageway, known as the "tube", to the
gas chambers. On the way they had to pass a hut where they had to hand
in their jewellery and valuables..


From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Nov  3 08:08:56 PST 1996
Article: 78370 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'the inferno, can't, that is, I can't take this, I said to him'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 20:26:12 GMT
Lines: 41

 From the interrogation of Adolf Eichmann
[Quoted in 'The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The 
Free Press, NY, 1988., p. 221-222]
------------------------------------------------------------------------
A. I just know the following, that I only saw the following: a room, 
   if I still recall correctly, perhaps five times as big as this one, 
   or it may have been four times as big. There were Jews inside it, 
   they had to get undressed and then a van, completely sealed, drew 
   up to the ramp in front of the entrance. The naked Jews then had to 
   get inside. Then the lorry was closed and it drove off.

Q. How many people did the van hold?

A. I can't say exactly. I couldn't bring myself to look closely, even
   once. I didn't look inside the entire time. I couldn't, no, I 
   couldn't take any more. The screaming and, and, I was too upset 
   and so on. I also said that to [SS-Obergruppenfuehrer] Mueller when 
   I submitted my report. He did not get much from my report. I then 
   followed the van - I must have been with some of the people from 
   there who knew the way. Then I saw the most horrifying thing I have 
   ever seen in my entire life. 

   The van drove up to a long trench, the door was opened and bodies
   thrown out. They still seemed alive, their limbs were so supple. 
   They were thrown in, I can still remember a civilian pulling out 
   teeth with some pliers and then I just got the hell out of there. 
   I got into the car, went off and did not say anything else... I'd had 
   more than I could take. I only know that a doctor there in a white 
   coat said to me that I should look through a peep-hole at them in 
   the lorry. I refused to do that. I could not, I could not say anything, 
   I had to get away.

   I went to Berlin, reported to Gruppenfuehrer Mueller. I told him
   exactly what I've just said, there wasn't any more I could tell him...
   terrible...I'm telling you... the inferno, can't, that is, I can't 
   take this, I said to him.




-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Nov  3 22:09:50 PST 1996
Article: 78402 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!hookup!news.umbc.edu!news.ums.edu!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Photographs from THEKLA Camp
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 14:44:33 GMT
Lines: 8

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/thekla/images

Thekla1.jpg, Thekla2.jpg, Thekla3.jpg:

The Thekla atrocity: inmates burned alive by the Nazis.


-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Nov  4 06:14:18 PST 1996
Article: 78417 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Ducks from Mars
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <558jaf$i9s@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 06:43:06 GMT
Lines: 15

dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) writes:

# Charming little note in my mailbox today.  Anybody know
# anything about this guy?  Would appreciate the info.

## fuck off, nazi scum

I agree with Marduk on this one, although I wouldn't
have used the same kind of language to express myself.

"DvdThomas" is a Nazi, a liar, and a coward.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Nov  4 12:37:48 PST 1996
Article: 78476 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!hookup!news.umbc.edu!news.ums.edu!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Photograph: Medical 'Experiments' in NATZWEILER (Strasbourg)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 14:48:32 GMT
Lines: 16

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/natzweiler/images

MedExp03.jpg:

The horror in Natzweiler (Strasbourg): the dissected 
corpses of victims used for Dr. Hirt's "anthropological 
research".


See photographs of relevant documents in
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/h/hirt.august/images

(Translation to be added soon).


-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Nov  5 06:58:30 PST 1996
Article: 78566 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Photographs from AUSCHWITZ Camp
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <3288a65d.2425817@199.0.216.204>
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 20:36:14 GMT
Lines: 34

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

## http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz/images/
##
## furnace-capacity.jpg
## Letter from Jahrling to Kammler, stating that the combined
## crematoriums in Auschwitz-Birkenau can cremate 4,756
## corpses in 24 working hours.

# The maximum number of bodies that can be cremated in
# modern day crematorium ovens is less than 10 in a
# twenty four hour period

Tommy, we have been through this. The cremation site
web page clearly gives "less than an hour" per one corpse,
for some furnaces. They also say that continuous cremation
reduces the necessary time by a factor of two, as the
furnace is already hot.

Also, cremation in Birkenau was not subject to limitations
as modern, commercial cremation is; it is impossible to
cremate more than one corpse in one muffle, out of
respect for the dead (no problem in Birkenau). Also,
in Birkenau, a large percentage of the dead were infants
and children, which weigh much less and take much
less time to cremate.

It is somewhat discouraging that, no matter how many
times these facts are pointed out, you continue posting
your silly lies, like some defective AI program.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Nov  8 10:57:36 PST 1996
Article: 78865 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!wesley.videotron.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Away For a Week
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 20:24:55 GMT
Lines: 9

I'll be away for a week (beautiful England), starting
Monday, and may not have access to the newsgroup. If
anyone has any specific question/comment to me, please
e-mail it. However, I specifically ask Matt Giwer not
to send me any e-mail.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Nov 13 06:27:51 PST 1996
Article: 79284 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!peerfeed.internetmci.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Himmler Talks About the Extermination of the Jews
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 15:30:21 GMT
Lines: 35

Speechs by Reichsfuehrer-SS Himmler before senior SS officers in
Poznan, October 4 and 6, 1943
[Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military Tribunals - 
Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1949-1953, Vol. XIII, p. 323, and 
Himmler, Reichsfuehrer-SS - P. Padfield, Henry Holt and Co, NY, 1990, 
p. 469]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I mean the evacuation of the Jews, the extermination of the Jewish
race. It's one of those things it is easy to talk about, "the Jewish
race is being exterminated", says one party member, "that's quite
clear, it's in our program, elimination of the Jews, and we're doing
it, exterminating them". And then they come, 80 million worthy
Germans, and each one has his decent Jew. Of course the others are
vermin, but this one is an A-1 Jew. Not one of those who talk this way
has watched it, not one of them has gone through it. Most of you know
what it means when 100 corpses are lying side by side, or 500, or
1,000.  To have stuck it out and at the same time - apart from
exceptions caused by human weakness - to have remained decent fellows,
that is what has made us hard.  This is a page of glory in our history
which has never been written and is never to be written.

I ask of you that what I say in this circle you really only hear and
never speak of. We come to the question: how is it with the women and
the children? I have resolved even here on a completely clear
solution. That is to say I do not consider myself justified in
eradicating the men - so to speak killing or ordering them killed -
and allowing the avengers in the shape of the children to grow up for
our sons and grandsons. The difficult decision has to be taken, to
cause this Volk [people] to disappear from the earth.




-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Nov 13 06:27:52 PST 1996
Article: 79286 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!peerfeed.internetmci.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!news.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Nazi Terror in Poland
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 15:26:59 GMT
Lines: 51


More excerpts from the work diary of Hans Frank, governor of
Nazi-occupied Poland, regarding the reign of terror imposed on
the Poles by the Nazi occupying forces. These are also taken
>from  document PS-2233, and appear in "Nazi Conspiracy and 
Aggression", Vol. IV.

Page 907 (Frank speaks in department heads meeting, 8 March 1940):

"Wherever there is the least attempt by the Poles to start anything,
 an enormous campaign of destruction directed against the Poles
 will follow".

Page 909 (Frank speaks in department heads meeting, 19 December 1940):

"The Pole must feel here that we are not building him a legal
 state, but that for him there is only one duty, namely, to work 
 and to behave himself. It is clear that this leads sometimes to
 difficulties, but you must in your own interest see, that all
 measures are ruthlessly carried out in order to become master of
 the situation".

Page 911 (Frank speaks in a conference of the District 
Standartenfuehrer of the NSDAP, 18 March 1942):

"You see how the state agencies work. You see that we do not
 hesitate before anything, and stand whole dozens of people up
 against the wall. This is necessary because here simple 
 consideration says that it cannot be our task at this period 
 when the best German blood is being sacrificed to show regard
 for the blood of another race".

Page 917 (Frank in a speech to members of the District 
Standortfuehrung, 14 January 1944):

"Once we have won the war, then, for all I care, mincemeat can
 be made of the Poles and the Ukrainians and all the others who
 run around here - it doesn't matter what happens".

Page 917 (Frank in a meeting of the Political Leaders of the
NSDAP):

"I have not been hesitant in declaring that when a German is
 shot, up to 100 Poles shall be shot too".




-Danny Keren. 




From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Nov 13 06:27:53 PST 1996
Article: 79288 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!peerfeed.internetmci.com!news.uoregon.edu!news.texoma.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Nazi Starvation of the Polish Population
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 15:25:32 GMT
Lines: 55

Here are a few excerpts from the work diary of Hans Frank, governor 
of Nazi-occupied Poland, in which he discusses the plundering of 
Poland and the systematic starvation of the Polish population (Frank
also mentions that about a million Poles have been rounded up and 
sent as slave labor force to Germany).

All quotes are from "Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression", Vol. IV. All
are taken from document 2233-PS.

Page 914: on 20 November 1942, Frank discusses food plundered from
Poland and sent to Germany:

"Of the total 180,000 head of cattle to be delivered, 159,000 have
 been delivered to the Reich up to now. 360,000,000 eggs have been
 collected. 92,000,000 of those eggs were delivered for the Reich,
 and 85,000,000 are already in possession of the Reich...

 It was stated in the decree of 25 August 1942 that a decrease in 
 the rations should occur, respectively that rations should be
 denied completely to the Polish population not working for the
 German interest".



Page 915: in a meeting (14 December 1942) Frank mentions more food
supplies taken from Poland:

"I will endeavor to get out of the reservoir of this territory
 everything that is yet to be got out of it.

 When you consider that it was possible for me to deliver to the
 Reich 600,000 tons of bread grain, and in addition 180,000 tons
 to the Armed Forces stationed here..."



Those who suffered from this ruthless plundering of Poland's
resources were, of course, the Poles. On page 909, we have
the following:

"Obermedizinalrat Dr. Walbaum expresses his opinion of the health
 condition of the Polish population. Investigations which were
 carried out by his department proved that the majority of Poles
 eat only about 600 calories, whereas the normal requirement
 for a human being is 2,200 calories. The Polish population was
 enfeebled to such an extent that it would fall an easy prey to
 spotted fever..."




-Danny Keren.





From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Nov 13 06:27:54 PST 1996
Article: 79292 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!data.ramona.vix.com!sonysjc!su-news-feed4.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: What is 'Holocaust Denial'?
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <565v3q$lr5@camel2.mindspring.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 16:05:28 GMT
Lines: 61
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.german:90078 alt.revisionism:79292

jimkonen@atl.mindspring.com ("Truth") writes:

[Assorted Nazi garbage deleted]

# After a careful study of the alleged killing facilities,
# Leucter concluded that the sites were not used, and could
# not have been used, as homicidal gas chambers.

Unfortunately for you, nazi-boy, Fred Leuchter is a liar
and charlatan, who:

1) Claimed to be an engineer, while only holding a BA in the
   arts (which landed him in a US court, for falsely presenting
   himself as an engineer).

2) Claimed to have consulted US prisons on gas chambers, but
   brazenly lied in court; all the prisons he cited have
   either not heard of him, or said that the only contact
   they had with him regarding gas chambers was a phone call
   in which he offered his services and was declined.

It is not the place to elaborate on the so-called "Leuchter
report" in detail. Suffice to mention that he states that
it would have been impossible to use cyanide gas in the
gas chambers, while also admitting that the gas was used
in them (there are still cyanide compounds on the walls).

# Whereas no or only trace amounts of cyanide were found in
# the alleged homicidal gas chambers, massive traces of
# cyanide were found in the walls and floor in the camp's
# disinfestation delousing chambers.

As was noted a few hundreds of times on the net, this is
because delousing takes far longer time than homicidal
gassing (many hours compared to 10-15 minutes). This can
be verified by consulting any relevant technical handbook.

# Finally, there is a study by Austrian engineer Walter Luftl, a
# respected expert witness in numerous  court cases, and former
# president of Austria's professional association of engineers.
# In 1992 report he called the alleged mass extermination of
# Jews in gas chambers"technically impossible."

Luftl's major claim is that "diesel engines cannot produce
enough CO to kill anyone" (thus he claims the gassings in
camps like Treblinka could not have taken place). Had he not
been a cheap, lying charlatan, he would have bothered to
look up the literature; check, for instance, "The Toxicity
of Fumes from a Diesel Engine Under Four Different Running
Conditions", by Pattle et al., British Journal of Industrial
Medicine, 1957, Vol 14, p.  47-55. It reports that animals
were killed when exposed to the exhaust of a tiny (6 BHP)
diesel engine.

To sum up, my friend, the attempts by so-called "Holocaust
revisionists" (namely, Nazi scum of the worst kind), to deny
Nazi atrocities using "scientific" methods, are a sad joke.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Nov 13 06:27:55 PST 1996
Article: 79296 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.texas.net!news1.best.com!news.sgi.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Cremation Rates
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32898f2a.813878@199.0.216.204>
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 11:07:28 GMT
Lines: 15

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

# Even though modern day cremation facilities take two
# and half hours to cremate one body,

Nope. Look at the cremation web site. They say that some
furnaces take less than an hour to burn a corpse. They
also say that continuous cremation reduces the time by
a factor of two, as the furnace is already hot.

This has been pointed out dozens of times.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Nov 13 06:27:55 PST 1996
Article: 79298 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Mr. Raven, please explain the contradiction
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <199611112031.PAA12560@vixa.voyager.net> <3287C909.2FD3@kaiwan.com> <56a41h$pln@lendl.cc.emory.edu>
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 17:34:14 GMT
Lines: 34

libwca@larry.cc.emory.edu (william c anderson) writes:
# Greg Raven (ihrgreg@kaiwan.com) wrote:

## It never fails to amaze me to learn how closely people of
## your sexual preference keep track of Hitler's birthday.

# Good to see Mr. Raven is still interested in substantive debate.

Although older than the most, Raven's just like all the other
nazi-boys... you just have to push him a little more.

And he really loves Hitler. See what he wrote. What feeling.
What emotion.


 
 Category 15,  Topic 4
 Message 33        Fri Mar 13, 1992
 G.RAVEN                      at 03:02 EST
 
My only concern is in going after the facts. As such, I am not 
interested in defending Adolf Hitler to my dying breath. I will say,
however, that he was a great man ... certainly greater than
Churchill and FDR put together, and possibly the greatest leader of 
our century, if not longer. This is not to say that he was perfect, 
but he about the best thing that could have happened to Germany.




-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Nov 13 06:27:56 PST 1996
Article: 79338 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'I only had orders to pour in the gas'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 15:38:15 GMT
Lines: 53

 From the testimony of SS-Unterscharfuehrer Wilhelm Bahr:
[Quoted in "Truth Prevails", ISBN 1-879437-00-7, p. 99].
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Q: Is it correct that you have gassed 200 Russian POW's with Zyklon-B?

A: Yes, on orders.

Q: Where did you do that?

A: In Neuengamme [concentration camp].

Q: On whose order?

A: The local doctor, Dr. Von Bergmann.

Q: With what gas?

A: With Prussic acid [another name for hydrogen cyanide]

Q: How long did the Russians take to die?

A: I do not know. I only obeyed orders.

Q: How long did it take to gas the Russians?

A: I returned after two hours and they were all dead.

Q: For what purpose did you go away?

A: That was during lunch hour.

Q: You left for your lunch and came back afterwards?

A: Yes.

Q: Were they dead when you came back?

A: Yes.

Q: Did you look at their bodies?

A: Yes, because I had to load them.

Q: Why did you apply the gas to the Russians?

A: I only had orders to pour in the gas and I do not know anything
   about it.




-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Nov 14 08:00:54 PST 1996
Article: 79399 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Inside the Auschwitz 'Gas Chambers'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <56bk6j$pni@camel0.mindspring.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 16:20:05 GMT
Lines: 56

jimkonen@atl.mindspring.com ("Truth") writes:

[Quoting Fred Leuchter]

# 1988 was a ver informative and likewise disturbing year.

But not as disturbing as when the little piece of dreck
was exposed as a liar and a charlatan, who claimed to be
an "engineer" while only holding a BA in the arts, and
was subsequently taken to court!

# I design and manufacture execution equipment of all
# types, including electrocution systems, lethal injection
# equipment, gallows and gas-chamber hardware.

But, of course, he cannot name one gas chamber in one
US prison he did any work on. He was never present in
nor conducted any execution by gas in any US prison.

# Based upon upon very generous maximum usage rates for
# all the alleged gas chambers, totalling 1,693 persons
# per week, assuming these facilities could support gas
# executions, it would have required sixty-eight(68)
# years to execute the alleged number of six million persons.

I was wondering how Leuchter arrived at this figure of 68 years;
I only found this out after reading his report. He assumes a
ventilation period of a week (!!)  between gassings (while
ventilation in the large gas chambers cleared the air in 15
minutes or so), and also assumes a density of people no more
than 1 per 9 sq. feet in the gas chambers (totally ridiculous,
of course, as many more people were pushed into the gas chambers).

Not to mention that he only considered the gas chambers
in two camps, and forgot that only about a half of the
victims were killed with gas.

A typical "revisionist scholar".

# This would be impossible if these sites were exposed to
# hydrogen cyanide gas, because the alleged gas chambers
# supposedly were exposed to much greater quantities of gas
# than the delousing facility.

EXACTLY the opposite is true, of course; delousing requires
higher concentrations and much longer exposures than
homicidal gassing (many hours vs. 10-15 minutes). This
can be verified by studying any textbook on these matters.

This is truly old garbage. Even most "revisionists" have
given up on the "Leuchter report". The nazi-boy posting
this must really be out of touch.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Nov 14 08:00:55 PST 1996
Article: 79460 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!InternetMCI.com!panix!feed1.news.erols.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Cremation Rates
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32898f2a.813878@199.0.216.204>  <328bdd82.1119206@199.0.216.204>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 11:39:28 GMT
Lines: 24

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

# Even if the "factor of two" were correct, we might say
# 4 bodies in one hour. 

4 an hour, times 46 furnaces in Birkenau, times, say, 12
working hours a day, is 2,208 corpses a day. 

# Lets say 100 a day, per oven. At Majdenek it is said they
# could cremate 24 an hour, 576 a day in just one oven.

This is most probably an overestimate. But this is not really
relevant. What is relevant is the true figure of corpses that
could be burned, and this figure is so high that it cannot
be explained by anything but mass murder.

# Also, can you post the URL for the cremation website.

http://www.cremation.org


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Nov 14 08:33:01 PST 1996
Article: 90193 of soc.culture.german
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!solace!demos!news1.relcom.ru!EU.net!howland.erols.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Inside the Auschwitz 'Gas Chambers'
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <56bk58$pni@camel0.mindspring.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 17:13:08 GMT
Lines: 57

jimkonen@atl.mindspring.com ("Truth") writes:

[Quoting Fred Leuchter]

# 1988 was a ver informative and likewise disturbing year.

But not as disturbing as when the little piece of dreck
was exposed as a liar and a charlatan, who claimed to be
an "engineer" while only holding a BA in the arts, and
was subsequently taken to court! What a typical "revisionist
scholar"...

# I design and manufacture execution equipment of all
# types, including electrocution systems, lethal injection
# equipment, gallows and gas-chamber hardware.

But, of course, he cannot name one gas chamber in one
US prison he did any work on. He was never present in
nor conducted any execution by gas in any US prison.

# Based upon upon very generous maximum usage rates for
# all the alleged gas chambers, totalling 1,693 persons
# per week, assuming these facilities could support gas
# executions, it would have required sixty-eight(68)
# years to execute the alleged number of six million persons.

I was wondering how Leuchter arrived at this figure of 68 years;
I only found this out after reading his report. He assumes a
ventilation period of a week (!!)  between gassings (while
ventilation in the large gas chambers cleared the air in 15
minutes or so), and also assumes a density of people no more
than 1 per 9 sq. feet in the gas chambers (totally ridiculous,
of course, as many more people were pushed into the gas chambers).

Not to mention that he only considered the gas chambers
in two camps, and forgot that only about a half of the
victims were killed with gas.

A typical "revisionist scholar", indeed.

# This would be impossible if these sites were exposed to
# hydrogen cyanide gas, because the alleged gas chambers
# supposedly were exposed to much greater quantities of gas
# than the delousing facility.

EXACTLY the opposite is true, of course; delousing requires
higher concentrations and much longer exposures than
homicidal gassing (many hours vs. 10-15 minutes). This
can be verified by studying any textbook on these matters.

This is truly old garbage. Even most "revisionists" have
given up on the "Leuchter report". The nazi-boy posting
this must really be out of touch.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Nov 15 06:32:24 PST 1996
Article: 79593 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Cremation Rates
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <3285fa37.2511006@news.zippo.com> <328c424a.4704216@199.0.216.204> <328967DF.5DFE@west.net> <328adbc5.674533@199.0.216.204>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 17:09:15 GMT
Lines: 27

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

# The facts are, that out of the many mass graves alleged
# to have been, many with specific locations, not one has
# been exposed or confirmed by archeological forensic
# test. Not then, at the time, and not to this day.

You're really a miserable liar. Not long ago, a very
detailed article about a group of Australian scientists
who went to look for such mass graves was posted. And they
did find the graves.

Worse, I clearly recall that you responded to this article,
which was posted by John Morris. I can post it again.

And, although you read it and responded to it, you're now
claiming that "no mass graves were found".

What about those at Belsen, BTW? What about the huge amounts
of human remains in Treblinka?

What a cheap, disgusting liar you are. A man 60-years-old,
who lies like a stupid 10-year-old. You make me sick.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Nov 15 08:59:45 PST 1996
Article: 191342 of control
Control: cancel 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: cancel
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 16:12:53 GMT
Lines: 1

 was cancelled from within trn.


From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Nov 15 08:59:45 PST 1996
Article: 191343 of control
Control: cancel 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: cancel
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 16:12:30 GMT
Lines: 1

 was cancelled from within trn.


From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Nov 15 08:59:46 PST 1996
Article: 192054 of control
Control: cancel 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: cancel
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 22:14:49 GMT
Lines: 1

 was cancelled from within trn.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Nov 16 06:58:02 PST 1996
Article: 79618 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.axionet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Now it's SEVEN !?! million
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <3288E0B7.4C48@copper-mt.com> 
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 22:16:12 GMT
Lines: 24

James Hedman  writes:

# Watched the Eichman movie on cable the other night.  The
# postscript text stated that the death toll from the
# "holocaust" was 7 million.

Leading historians like Profs. Gutman and Bauer actually
put the figure at 5.8 million.

# Having watched these estimates grow from 1.5 million
#  in the sixties to six million in recent years

Garbage. The estimates in the sixties were not 1.5 million.

Both Hilberg, Reitlinger, and all other historians I
know of - during and before the sixties - gave estimates
in the vicinity of 5-6 million.

You're lying; and it's a rather stupid lie, which can
be very easily refuted. Try harder next time.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Nov 16 06:58:09 PST 1996
Article: 79640 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.axionet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Soviets were fighting Hitler in 1956 in Hungary? [David Irving]
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <560b1o$2l3@atlas.uniserve.com> <19961109013300.UAA05888@ladder01.news.aol.com> 
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 08:13:11 GMT
Lines: 43


Alan B. Kennady (ehrlich606@aol.com) wrote:
 
# The Matt Giwer I know is an extremely bright man, with great
# energy, perception and humanity.  He has a lot to offer, and
# it is a pity that so few can realize this. 
 
The Matt Giwer we all know is a deranged swine, who forges 
articles, lies through his teeth, and posts death threats, as 
well as possibly the most racist articles to appear in this 
newsgroup.
 
This is a matter of record. It cannot be denied.
 
Some examples from some recent postings of his:
 
# Jews are clearly thieves by their actions.
 
# It is Muslim word against Jew word.  Muslims have a thing about
# honesty.  Jews do not.
 
# Yes, JEW, we know you are in violation of your oath as an officer
# of the court and we know that all jews swear to oaths with their
# fingers crossed as you have done. 
 
[The subject header of one other post]
 
# Subject: look at what the silly jews are up to now
 
# You USED your child for a cheap ass debating point.
#
# You have to be jewish.
#
# No one else would be so low.


 
This is your friend and the subject of your admiration? Scum is 
attracted to scum, I guess...
 
 
-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Nov 16 06:58:17 PST 1996
Article: 79662 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!feed1.news.erols.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'They were then pushed into the chamber'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 00:14:48 GMT
Lines: 29

SS-Hauptsturmfuehrer Johann Schwarzhuber testifies about gassing
in the Ravensbrueck concentration camp
[Quoted in "Nazi Mass Murder: A Documentary History of the
Use of Poison Gas", edited by E. Kogon, H. Langbein, and
A. Rueckerl, Yale University Press, 1993, p. 187]
-----------------------------------------------------------------
At the end of February 1945 I was called with Dr. Trommer to the
office of the camp commandant, Sturmbannfuehrer Suhren. Suhren
informed us that he had received an order from Reichsfuehrer Himmler
to liquidate all the women who were sick or unable to walk. Before
giving us this information, he asked us how many sick women there 
were in the camp. I explained to the commandant that I had been glad to
leave Auschwitz and would not like to repeat that experience. He then 
told me that Sturmbannfuehrer Sauer, deputy to the camp commandant, had 
been put in charge of the execution.

 .
 .
 .

I witnessed a gassing. A hundred and fifty women, all at once, were
pushed into the gas chamber. Hauptscharfuehrer Moll ordered the women
to undress and told them that a delousing was going to take place. They 
were then pushed into the chamber, and the door was bolted. A male 
prisoner, wearing a gas mask, climbed up onto the roof and, through 
an opening which he closed again immediately afterward, threw a can of 
gas into the room. I heard groans and moans. After two or three minutes, 
there was silence in the chamber.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Nov 16 06:58:18 PST 1996
Article: 79692 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Information for Holocaust Revisionists
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <19961110223201.RAA14265@ladder01.news.aol.com> <567c0j$crg@rks1.urz.tu-dresden.de> <328c2b79.73530678@news.gte.net>
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 19:37:12 GMT
Lines: 23

 *@*.* (* *) (a senile, unemployed drunkard who is too much
of a coward to post under his own name), writes:

# Obviously you are very new to the discussion as you know
# nothing but the repetitions of those who can not support
# their claims of hearing the laughter of pilots over the
# noise of their engines.

Funny thing is that I asked about this in the aviation
groups. One fellow who flew a Mustang in the war said that
he once shouted instructions to a comrade on the ground
(while flying), and that the other fellow had no special
problems hearing him.

But it was obvious, wasn't it? After all, Giwer said it's
impossible. And crazy old Giwer always says the opposite
of what is true. Maybe that's why he is unemployed since he
was 46-years-old. What is not yet clear, is why the senile
leech is so proud of the fact that he's unemployed?


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Nov 16 06:58:19 PST 1996
Article: 79711 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!news.sgi.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Photographs from DACHAU Camp
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 21:25:38 GMT
Lines: 19

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/dachau/images

dachau01.jpg
Corpses of the inmates.

dachau02.jpg, dachau03.jpg:
Mass graves of murdered inmates near Dachau.

dachau04.jpg
Letter about conducting medical experiments in Dachau.

MedExp02.jpg
An inmate subjected to low-pressure experiment in Dachau.

MedExp04.jpg
An inmate subjected to freezing experiment in Dachau.


-Danny Keren


From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Nov 16 06:58:20 PST 1996
Article: 79725 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.ntsource.com!news-out.internetmci.com!peerfeed.internetmci.com!panix!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Photographs from AUSCHWITZ Camp
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 21:31:05 GMT
Lines: 49

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz/images/

furnace-capacity.jpg
Letter from Jahrling to Kammler, stating that the combined
crematoriums in Auschwitz-Birkenau can cremate 4,756 corpses
in 24 working hours.

Vergasungskeller.jpg
Document mentioning the "gassing cellar" in Krema II in
Birkenau.

Gas_Detector.jpg
Letter asking to deliver detectors for cyanide gas to
crematorium in Birkenau.

Krema4.jpg
Crematorium no. 4 in Birkenau.

krema5-01.jpg
Crematorium no. 5 in Birkenau.

auschwitz03.jpg, auschwitz04.jpg
Murdered inmates in Auschwitz-Birkenau.

auschwitz05.jpg
Young Polish children imprisoned in Auschwitz.

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/mengele.josef/
images/Mengele.jpg
Gypsy children, tortured by SS doctor Mengele during his
"medical experiments" in Auschwitz.

Gaskammern.jpg
Construction document which mentions a "gas chamber"
(Gaskammer) in Krema no. 5 in Birkenau.

burning-pit.jpg
Corpses of victims killed in the gas chambers are burned
outside of Krema no. 5. Photograph taken in the summer of
1944, when the Hungarian Jews were murdered at such a rate
that the cremation furnaces could not handle the number
of corpses.

Furnace.jpg
Cremation furnaces in a Birknenau crematorium.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Nov 16 06:58:21 PST 1996
Article: 79726 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.ntsource.com!news-out.internetmci.com!peerfeed.internetmci.com!panix!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Photograph: Document About Killing With Poison Gas Jews 'Unfit For Work'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 21:29:33 GMT
Lines: 15

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/w/wetzel.erhard/images/
wetzel-lohse-01.jpg

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/w/wetzel.erhard/images/
wetzel-lohse-02.jpg

Two pages of letter from Dr. Erhard Wetzel to Reichskommissar 
Lohse, October 25, 1941, about murdering Jews "unfit for
work" using poison gas.

Translation in
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/w/wetzel.erhard/wetzel.102541


-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Nov 16 06:58:22 PST 1996
Article: 79727 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Photographs: EINSATZGRUPPEN Massacres and Related Documents
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 21:28:09 GMT
Lines: 23

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?orgs/german/einsatzgruppen/images

eg-01.jpg, eg-02.jpg, eg-03.jpg, eg-04.jpg, eg-05.jpg
Einsatzgruppen massacres in Nazi-occupied USSR.

eg-06.jpg
Pyre of corpses ready to be set on fire.

eg-07.jpg
Mass grave.

eg-map.jpg
Part of a report detailing murder of Jews in the Nazi occupied 
Baltic states and White Russia by Einsatzgruppe (special action
unit) A, submitted at February 1, 1942. Includes figures of
Jews murdered by the Einsatzgruppen.

report-51.jpg
Letter from Himmler. Mentions 363,211 Jews murdered during 4 
months in 1942.


-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Nov 16 06:58:23 PST 1996
Article: 79731 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.eznet.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!peerfeed.internetmci.com!panix!feed1.news.erols.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Matt Giwer: the Man and His Work
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 23:28:50 GMT
Lines: 37

            Giwer the Liar Posts a Testimony
	          Which Does Not Exist
                  -------------------- 

Giwer posted a non-existing testimony. Period. He did it in
order to "prove" that testimonies of survivors are a "lie".

The tactic is simple; "revisionists" use it all the time. They 
invent a non-existing testimony, or distort an existing one, 
and then post it as if it was an actual testimony. Al Baron 
did it. Tom Moran did it. And now Giwer does it.



# In Lueneburg, Germany, a Jewish physician, testifying at the
# trial of 45 men and women for war crimes at the Belsen and
# Oswiecim [Auschwitz] concentration camps, said that 80,000
# Jews,  representing the entire ghetto of Lodz, Poland, had been
# gassed or burned to death in one night at the Belsen camp.



Since there was no such mass gassing in Belsen, Giwer is 
trying to make it appear as if a witness said there was such 
gassing, in order to "prove" that this witness was lying.

Giwer has yet to provide the name of this witness. But
he can't. Note that his only response to this reasonable
request is to spam the group by reposting something totally 
unrelated. He cannot provide the name, because no witness
ever said what Giwer claims this "Jewish physician" said.

But this is what you can expect from a senile, pathetic,
miserable liar like Giwer.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Nov 16 06:58:24 PST 1996
Article: 79733 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!peerfeed.internetmci.com!panix!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: ihr7
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <56hau8$hqb@news3.gte.net>  <848097747.14332.15@vertigo.combase.com>
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 23:24:36 GMT
Lines: 27

Hardwire  writes:

# Well gee... I would sort of think of wood as a fuel for
# FIRE.  At least the last time I had a cookout that particular
# scientific law was still valid.  Has it changed recently?

It's a question of semantics, not of science, more so
since the man who testified was not a scientist or a 
technical person.

The question is, why did Giwer pluck out the reference
Morgen made to Wirth? It's very short; he simply says
"By means of a special procedure, developed by Wirth",
or something to that affect. Why did Giwer take out
the "developed by Wirth", which, most probably, refers
to burning corpses using wood, as was done in the
camps which Wirth supervised?

One can understand when someone deletes a few lines of
irrelevant text. But, when someone removes three or so
words like this, he must have a reason. When this is
done by a notorious pathological liar like Giwer, the
reason is quite obvious.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Nov 16 06:58:25 PST 1996
Article: 79736 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'they were sent direct from the platform to the gas chamber'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 00:08:50 GMT
Lines: 64

Testimony of Stanislawa Starotska 
[Quoted in "The Belsen Trial" - Edited by R. Phillips, William Hodge and
Company, 1949, page numbers follow]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
p. 418:

Q. How was the Appell [roll-call] for selection for the gas chamber run?

A. The doctor was present and he chose weak and sick people instead of
   healthy ones. My part was exactly the same as during the other 
   parades. I had to keep order and see that everything was all right.
   I never helped the staff of the concentration camp during the 
   selection for the gas chamebrs.

p. 421:

Q. How did the SS behave towards the prisoners at Auschwitz?

A. The prisoners in Auschwitz were treated very badly, and beaten on 
   every occasion. They had to work very hard, the accomodation was 
   very bad, they had lice and other diseases, and dogs were set on 
   them. Almost all the Blockfuehrer [block leader] in the camp carried 
   sticks which they used, and some of the Aufseherinnen [wardresses] 
   has sticks, some cellophane whips, and others dogs. Some had nothing.

 .
 .
 .

Q. When these Jews began to realize that they were being selected for
   the gas chamber did a lot of people begin to try and run away and
   get hysterical?

A. Some of them tried to run away and others tried to hide themselves,
   or tried to avoid being examined by the doctors. Those who tried to
   run away or hide were brought back again to the same place and
   sometimes were beaten.

p. 422:

Q. You say that sometimes the factories sent some prisoners back again
   who were completely exhausted from work. I suppose it was only a 
   question of time before these people found their way into the gas
   chamber?

A. It was not even a question of time; they were sent direct from the
   platform to the gas chamber.

p. 423:

Q. When the prisoners were being marched past the doctor, did you stand
   behind him taking the numbers or did you go round the parade and 
   take the numbers afterwards?

A. Prisoners marched past the doctor and then he would point out one of
   those wretched people and say "that man can be taken to the gas 
   chamber". At that moment the Blockfuehrer would take the man and
   bring him to the left side and tell me to write down the number as
   he was for the gas chamber.




-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Nov 16 06:58:25 PST 1996
Article: 79737 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'The tins were filled to the brim with blue granules'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 00:07:27 GMT
Lines: 16


Testimony of SS-Unterscharfuehrer Pery Broad, describing gassing in
Krema I in Auschwitz
[Quoted in "KL Auschwitz as Seen by the SS", p. 176]
-------------------------------------------------------------
 ... The "disinfectors" were at work. One of them was SS-Unterscharfuehrer
Teuer, decorated with the Cross of War Merit. With a chisel and a
hammer they opened a few innocuously looking tins which bore the
inscription "Cyclon, to be used against vermin. Attention, poison!
to be opened by trained personnel only!". The tins were filled to
the brim with blue granules the size of peas. Immediately after
opening the tins, their contents was thrown into the holes which
were then quickly covered. Meanwhile Grabner gave a sign to the driver
of a lorry, which had stopped close to the crematorium. The driver
started the motor and its deafening noise was louder than the
death cries of the hundreds of people inside, being gassed to death.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Nov 16 06:58:26 PST 1996
Article: 79738 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'the screams and groans of the people died away'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 00:12:08 GMT
Lines: 20

Testimony of Hauptschrfuehrer Gustav Labs
[Quoted in "Nazi Mass Murder: A Documentary History of the
Use of Poison gas, edited by E. Kogon, H. Langbein, and
A. Rueckerl, Yale University Press, 1993, p. 87]
----------------------------------------------------------
Then Burstinger, who had reappeared from the cellar passage,
came up to me. He ordered me to start the engine and to leave
it running for about twelve minutes. I did what I was told, 
and a minute later I heard terrible screams and groans coming
>from  the interior. I got frightened and jumped out of the
driver's cab. I realized that the exhaust had been directed 
to the interior of the van to kill the people inside. Bothmann*
yelled at me, "Have you gone mad?". He told me to get back
behind the wheel. I did so and waited. I didn't dare to do
anything, because I was afraid of Bothmann. Gradually, after 
some minutes, the screams and groans of the people died away.

* SS-Hauptsturmfuehrer Hans Bothmann.




From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Nov 16 06:58:27 PST 1996
Article: 79740 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'there was no longer any escape'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 00:01:16 GMT
Lines: 17

Testimony of Hans-Heintz Schutt, SS-officer at Sobibor
[Quoted in "'The Good Old Days'" - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The 
Free Press, NY, 1988, p. 240]
-------------------------------------------------------------
Getting the detainees into the gas chambers did not always proceed
smoothly. The detainees would shout and weep and they often refused to 
get inside. The guards helped them on by violence. These guards were
Ukrainian volunteers who were under the authority of members of
the SS Kommando. Members of the SS held key positions in the camp, i.e.
one SS man oversaw the unloading, a further SS man led the detainees
into the reception camp, a further SS man was responsible for leading
the detainees to the undressing area, a further SS man oversaw the
confiscation of valuables and a further member of the Kommando had
to drive the detainees into the so-called tube which led to the
extermination camp. Once they were inside the so-called tube, which
led them from the hut to the extermination camp, there was no longer
any escape.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Nov 16 06:58:28 PST 1996
Article: 79743 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!feed1.news.erols.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Photographs from BELSEN Camp
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 21:23:05 GMT
Lines: 33

The following photos are in

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/bergen-belsen/images

They are all scanned from "The Belsen Trial" - Edited by R. Phillips,
William Hodge and Company, 1949.  

belsen01.jpg: A Mass grave in Belsen camp.
belsen02.jpg: A bulldozer being used to bury corpses in Belsen.
belsen03.jpg: Emaciated corpses in Belsen.
belsen04.jpg: Plump, overweight SS-women bury skeletal corpses in Belsen.
belsen05.jpg: The corpse of a child is thrown into a mass grave in Belsen.
         
The following photos, of some of the SS staff in Belsen (and before
that, in Auschwitz-Birkenau) are in:
       
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bormann.juana/images/

Bormann.jpg: Juana Bormann, murderous SS-woman (served in Auschwitz 
             and Belsen). 

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/h/hoessler.franz/images/

Hoessler.jpg: SS-officer Franz Hoessler in front of a truckload of
              corpses in Belsen.

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/k/kramer.joseph/images/

Kramer.jpg:   Joseph Kramer, who served as commandant of Auschwitz
              II (Birkenau) and later Belsen.                       


-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Nov 16 06:58:29 PST 1996
Article: 79745 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!news.texas.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'the thirty to forty women were dead'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 00:00:23 GMT
Lines: 32

Testimony of SS Scharfuhrer Erich Fuchs, in the Sobibor-Bolender trial, 
Dusseldorf 
[Quoted in "BELZEC, SOBIBOR, TREBLINKA - the Operation Reinhard 
Death Camps", Indiana University Press - Yitzhak Arad, 1987, p. 31-32]. 
--------------------------------------------------------------
 ....We unloaded the motor. It was a heavy Russian benzine engine, at 
least 200 horsepower. we installed the engine on a concrete foundation 
and set up the connection between the exhaust and the tube.

I then tested the motor. It did not work. I was able to repair the
ignition and the valves, and the motor finally started running. The
chemist, who I knew from Belzec, entered the gas chamber with
measuring instruments to test the concentration of the gas.

Following this, a gassing experiment was carried out.  If my memory
serves me right, about thirty to forty women were gassed in one gas
chamber. The Jewish women were forced to undress in an open place
close to the gas chamber, and were driven into the gas chamber by the
above mentioned SS members and the Ukrainian auxiliaries. when the
women were shut up in the gas chamber I and Bolender set the motor in
motion. The motor functioned first in neutral.  Both of us stood by
the motor and switched from "Neutral" (Freiauspuff) to "Cell" (Zelle),
so that the gas was conveyed to the chamber. At the suggestion of the
chemist, I fixed the motor on a definite speed so that it was
unnecessary henceforth to press on the gas. About ten minutes later
the thirty to forty women were dead.




-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Nov 16 06:58:29 PST 1996
Article: 79746 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!news.texas.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'The Jews from two of these transports were gassed'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 23:59:14 GMT
Lines: 50

SS-Untersturmfuehrer Oberhauser on the death camp at Belzec
[Quoted in 'The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The 
Free Press, NY, 1988., p. 228-230]
----------------------------------------------------------------
The camp of Belzec was situated north-east of the Tomaszo'w to Lemberg
[Lvov] road beyond the village of Belzec. As the camp needed a siding
for the arriving transports the camp was built about 400 meters from
Belzec station. The camp itself was divided into two sections: section
1 and section 2. The siding led directly from Belzec station into
section 2 of the camp, in which the undressing barracks as well as the
gas installations and the burial field were situated...

The gassing of Jews which took place in Belzec camp up till 1 August
1942 can be divided into two phases. During the first series of
experiments there were two to three transports consisting of four to
six freight cars each holding twenty to forty persons. On the average
150 Jews were delivered and killed per transport. At that stage the
gassings were not yet part of a systematic eradication action but were
carried out to test and study closely the camp's capacity and the
technical problems involved in carrying out a gassing...

At the beginning of May 1942 SS-Oberfuehrer Brack from the Fuehrer's
chancellery suddenly came to Lublin. With Globocnik he discussed
resuming the extermination of the Jews. Globocnik said he had too few
people to carry out this programme. Brack stated that the euthanasia
programme had stopped and that the people from T4 would from now on be
detailed to him on a regular basis so that the decisions taken at the
Wannsee conference could be implemented. As it appeared that it would
not be possible for the Einsatzgruppen to clear individual areas of
Jews and the people in the large ghettos of Warsaw and Lemberg by
shooting them, the decision had been taken to set up two further
extermination camps which would be ready by 1 August 1942, namely
Treblinka and Sobibor. The large-scale extermination programme 
[Vernichtungsaktion] was due to start on 1 August 1942.

About a week after Brack had come to Globocnik, Wirth and his staff
returned to Belzec. The second series of experiments went on until
1 August 1942. During this period a total of five to six transports
(as far as I am aware) consisting of five to seven freight cars
containing thirty to forty people came to Belzec. The Jews from two
of these transports were gassed in the small chamber, but then Wirth
had the gas huts pulled down and built a massive new building with a 
much larger capacity. It was here that the Jews from the rest of the
transport were gassed.

During the first experiments and the first set of transports in the
second series of experiments bottled gas was still used for gassing;
however, for the last transports of the second series of experiments
the Jews were killed with the exhaust gases from a tank or lorry
engine which was operated by Hackenholt.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Nov 16 06:58:30 PST 1996
Article: 79748 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'Afterwards it would once again be used for gassing'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 00:11:00 GMT
Lines: 35

Testimony of gas-van driver Walter Burmeister
[Quoted in 'The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The 
Free Press, NY, 1988., p. 219-220]
------------------------------------------------------------
As soon as the ramp had been erected in the castle, people started
arriving in Kulmhof from Lizmannstadt in lorries... The people were
told that they had to take a bath, that their clothes had to be
disinfected and that they could hand in any valuable items beforehand
to be registered...

When they had undressed they were sent to the cellar of the castle and
then along a passageway on to the ramp and from there into the
gas-van. In the castle there were signs marked "to the baths". The gas
vans were large vans, about 4-5 meters long, 2.2 meter wide and 2
meter high. The interior walls were lined with sheet metal. On the
floor there was a wooden grille. The floor of the van had an opening
which could be connected to the exhaust by means of a removable metal
pipe. When the lorries were full of people the double doors at the
back were closed and the exhaust connected to the interior of the
van...

The Kommando member detailed as driver would start the engine right
away so that the people inside the lorry were suffocated by the
exhaust gases. Once this had taken place, the union between the
exhaust and the inside of the lorry was disconnected and the van was
driven to the camp in the woods were the bodies were unloaded. In the
early days they were initially burned in mass graves, later
incinerated... I then drove the van back to the castle and parked it
there. Here it would be cleaned of the excretions of the people that
had died in it. Afterwards it would once again be used for gassing...

I can no longer say what I thought at the time or whether I thought of
anything at all. I can also no longer say today whether I was too
influenced by the propaganda of the time to have refused to have
carried out the orders I had been given.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Nov 16 06:58:31 PST 1996
Article: 79749 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!feed1.news.erols.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'Sometimes entire transports were gassed'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 23:56:03 GMT
Lines: 12

Testimony of SS-Hauptsturmfuehrer Hofmann, about his days at Auschwitz
[Quoted from "Auschwitz: A Report on the Proceedings Against Robert 
Karl Ludwig Mulka and Others Before the Court at Frankfurt", By Bernd 
Naumann, 1966, published by Frederick A. Praeger, NY, p. 50-1]
---------------------------------------------------------------------
The Jews were asked to line up. It was my job to preserve calm and
order. The selection was carried out by doctors. The instructions
were issued by the commandants or by Grabner. Sometimes entire
transports were gassed. At times many able-bodied workers were
selected, at other times fewer. The percentage was specified in
advance. It was determined by the need for workers.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Nov 16 06:58:32 PST 1996
Article: 79760 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Photograph: Medical 'Experiments' in NATZWEILER (Strasbourg)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 21:28:48 GMT
Lines: 16

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/natzweiler/images

MedExp03.jpg:

The horror in Natzweiler (Strasbourg): the dissected 
corpses of victims used for Dr. Hirt's "anthropological 
research".


See photographs of relevant documents in
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/h/hirt.august/images

(Translation to be added soon).


-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Nov 16 06:58:32 PST 1996
Article: 79761 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Photographs from THEKLA Camp
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 21:24:55 GMT
Lines: 8

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/thekla/images

Thekla1.jpg, Thekla2.jpg, Thekla3.jpg:

The Thekla atrocity: inmates burned alive by the Nazis.


-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Nov 16 06:58:33 PST 1996
Article: 79762 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Photographs from NORDHAUSEN Camp
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 21:26:28 GMT
Lines: 8

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/nordhausen/images

nordhausen-01.jpg, nordhausen02.jpg:

Murdered inmates.


-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Nov 16 06:58:34 PST 1996
Article: 79810 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Photographs from MAIDANEK Camp
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 21:50:41 GMT
Lines: 14

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/maidanek/images

maidanek-01.jpg
Shoes of the victims piled up in Maidanek camp.

maidanek-02.jpg
Burned corpses of Maidanek inmates.

Maidanek_Crematorium.jpg
The crematorium in Maidanek.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Nov 16 06:58:34 PST 1996
Article: 79812 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Photographs from OHRDRUF Camp
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 21:27:28 GMT
Lines: 10

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/ohrdruf/images

ohrdruf-01.jpg
Burned corpses of inmates.

ohrdruf-02.jpg:
Murdered inmates.


-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Nov 16 06:58:35 PST 1996
Article: 79826 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Ernst Zundel: the Man and His Work
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 22:50:33 GMT
Lines: 29

Ernst Zundel is, most probably, the most well-known "Holocaust
revisionist" in the world.

It's interesting that Mr. Zundel also believes that the Nazi 
leadership escaped the collapsing Reich at the end of WW2, using 
"secret UFO's", and flew them into the inner Earth, via a "hole 
in the South-Pole"... 

It's no joke; look at 

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/z/zundel.ernst/flying-saucers

Zundel's Nazi followers claim he only published this stuff "in 
order to get publicity". You can decide if this makes sense. 

As you can see in the material on this web page, Zundel also 
claims to have personally met and spoken with the "German 
scientists who planned and built the UFO's"... he also shows 
a photograph, allegedly taken inside a "German UFO control 
bunker", no less.

It's interesting to study the correlation between "Holocaust
revisionism" and mental illness. Matt Giwer, Dan Gannon, and
Ernst Zundel are just some "revisionists" who are obviously
suffering from deep mental problems.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Nov 19 06:43:50 PST 1996
Article: 79842 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'We are German citizens! You can't do this to us!'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 00:15:51 GMT
Lines: 32

Philip Mueller writes about the murder of the Gypsies in Birkenau
[Quoted from "Auschwitz Inferno", p. 151]
-----------------------------------------------------------------
One could see that most of the SS-men had a bad conscience. They
hadn't shown any scruples about annihilating Jews, the killing
of whom was now a daily routine for all of them, yet they clearly
found it unpleasant and distressing to help exterminate people
with whom they had been on quite good terms up to now. But in
this dismal place there was no room for sentiment. The
extermination routine took its usual course. [Hauptscharfuehrer]
Moll and his helpers cocked their pistols and rifles and, in a 
way that allowed no misunderstanding, asked the people, who
in the meanwhile had undressed, to leave the changing room at
once and go into those rooms in which they were to be gassed.
As they took their last walk, many wept in despair, others
crossed themselves and prayed to God, and yet others, who even
now were unwilling to come to terms with their inevitable fate,
turned to the SS-men and, gesticulating wildly, shouted without
stopping: "We are German citizens! You can't do this to us!".

For a while desperate shouts and cries could be heard coming from
the gas chambers until the gas had done its deadly work and chocked
the last voice.




-Danny Keren.






From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Nov 19 06:43:51 PST 1996
Article: 79843 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'Grabner ordered me to pour Zyklon B into the opening'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 00:24:29 GMT
Lines: 19

Hans Stark testifies about Auschwitz:
[Quoted in "'The Good Old Days'" - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The 
Free Press, NY, 1988, p. 255].
--------------------------------------------------------------
At another, later gassing -- also in autumn 1941 -- Grabner* ordered
me to pour Zyklon B into the opening because only one medical orderly
had shown up. During a gassing Zyklon B had to be poured through both
openings of the gas-chamber room at the same time. This gassing was
also a transport of 200-250 Jews, once again men, women and children.
As the Zyklon B -- as already mentioned -- was in granular form, it
trickled down over the people as it was being poured in. They then
started to cry out terribly for they now knew what was happening to
them. I did not look through the opening because it had to be closed
as soon as the Zyklon B had been poured in. After a few minutes there
was silence. After some time had passed, it may have been ten to
fifteen minutes, the gas chamber was opened. The dead lay
higgledy-piggedly all over the place. It was a dreadful sight.

   * Maximillian Grabner, Head of Political Department, Auschwitz


From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Nov 19 06:43:52 PST 1996
Article: 79853 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Photographs from BUCHENWALD Camp
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 21:23:56 GMT
Lines: 18

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/buchenwald/images

buchenwald01.jpg, buchenwald03.jpg:
Emaciated corpses of the inmates.

buchenwald02.jpg:
Artifacts made from corpses of inmates.

shrunken.jpg: 
The shrunken head of an inmate.

buchenwald04.jpg: 
German civilians living near the camp, after the American troops 
have taken them to Buchenwald to witness the horrors. Notice how 
well-dressed and well-fed they are.


-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Nov 19 06:43:52 PST 1996
Article: 79858 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'Revisionists' Support Freedom of Speech? You Decide.
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 22:33:42 GMT
Lines: 34

My opinion regarding the attack on the USS Liberty is 
different from Matt Giwer's; I believe - and I have explained 
why - that the ship was attacked in the midst of the 
Arab-Israeli 1967 War because it was misidentified as
an Egyptian ship.

For that, Giwer called me a "murderer", a "traitor", and
declared that "were you at my back in combat I would turn 
and kill you first".

It's great to know that "revisionist scholars" are tolerant
towards a view of history which is different from their
own, isn't it?

Not long ago, a fellow from Germany proved that a certain
story about Soviet atrocities against German civilians could
not be true. In response, Horst Kleinsorg, another "revisionist
scholar", declared that this poster "deserves nothing better 
than to be hanged the same way the Nueremberg War Criminals 
were hanged. A meathook would be just right for him and his ilk".

And you have Ernst Zundel, probably the world's "most well-
known revisionist", who screeches about freedom of speech, while
simultaneously demanding to ban "Schindler's List" and the TV series
"Holocaust".

By far, the most spectacular article ever posted to this group
was the piece by Dan Gannon, the original nazi-boy "revisionist"
and ultra-spammer. It carried the text of Zundel's flier, calling
to ban "schindler's List", and was followed by Gannon's .sig 
"BANISHED CPU SUPPORTS FREEDOM OF SPEECH!"...

-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Nov 19 06:43:53 PST 1996
Article: 79879 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!news.sgi.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Information for Holocaust Revisionists
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:   <848098135.14332.16@vertigo.combase.com> <328d5537.17708149@news.gte.net>
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 19:00:37 GMT
Lines: 23

pj@o.rourke (Leprechaun) writes:

# Keep in mind the Keren is simply lying.

Ah, another stupid little nazi-boy. Or maybe it's
Giwer, using yet another alias?

# He asked no one and no one told him that.

Yes I did, nazi-boy. Check rec.aviation.military. The
pilot's name is Erik Shilling. I hope a stupid little
nazi monkey like you can check dejanews?

Some other folks reported similar events, BTW, although
with different types of planes.

Next time, check before you accuse someone of lying...
you stupid little nazi monkey. Who opened the zoo and
let all of you out, anyway?


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Nov 19 06:43:54 PST 1996
Article: 79883 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'After the gassing, the door were opened and the corpses removed'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 00:18:06 GMT
Lines: 18

Testimony of SS-Oberscharfuehrer Kurt Bolender, In the 
Belzec-Oberhauser trial:
[Quoted in "BELZEC, SOBIBOR, TREBLINKA - the Operation Reinhard 
Death Camps", Indiana University Press - Yitzhak Arad, 1987, p. 76]. 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Before the Jews undressed, Oberscharfuehrer Michel made a speech
to them. On these occasions, he used to wear a white coat to
give the impression that he was a physician. Michel announced to
the Jews that they would be sent to work, but before this they
would have to take baths and undergo disinfection so as to
prevent the spread of diseases... After undressing, the Jews
were taken through the so-called Schlauch. They were led to the
gas chambers not by the Germans but by the Ukrainians...After
the Jews entered the gas chambers, the Ukrainians closed the
doors. The motor which supplied the gas was switched on by
a Ukrainian named Emil and by a German driver called Erich
Bauer from Berlin. After the gassing, the door were opened
and the corpses removed....


From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Nov 19 06:43:54 PST 1996
Article: 79884 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'One cannot protest when in the army'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 23:52:36 GMT
Lines: 16

Testimony of SS-Obersturmfuehrer Dr. Fritz Klein 
[Quoted in "The Belsen Trial" - Edited by R. Phillips, William Hodge and
Company, 1949.p. 717]
----------------------------------------------------------------
When transports arrived at Auschwitz it was the doctor's job to pick
out those who were unfit or unable to work. These included children, 
old people and the sick. I have seen the gas chambers and crematoria 
at Auschwitz, and I knew that those I selected were to go to the gas
chamber. But I only acted on orders given to me by Dr. Wirtz.

 .
 .
 .

I never protested against people being sent to the gas chambers, 
although I never agreed. One cannot protest when in the army.


From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Nov 19 06:43:55 PST 1996
Article: 79885 of alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 00:13:25 GMT
Lines: 21

SS-Doctor Kremer about his days at Auschwitz: 
[Quoted in 'The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The 
Free Press, NY, 1988, p. 258].
-------------------------------------------------------------------
I remember I once took part in the gassing of one of these groups
of women [from the women's camp in Auschwitz]. I cannot say how
big the group was. when I got close to the bunker I saw them
sitting on the ground. They were still clothed. As they were
wearing worn-out camp clothing they were not left in the undressing
hut but made to undress in the open air. I concluded from the
behavior of these women that they had no doubt what fate awaited
them, as they begged and sobbed to the SS men to spare them their
lives. However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed.
As an anatomist I have seen a lot of terrible things: I had had
a lot of experience with dead bodies, and yet what I saw that
day was like nothing I had ever seen before. Still completely
shocked by what I had seen I wrote on my diary on 5 September 
1942: "The most dreadful of horrors. Hauptscharfuehrer Thilo was
right when he said to me today that this is the 'anus mundi', the
anal orifice of the world". I used this image because I could not
imagine anything more disgusting and horrific.


From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Nov 19 06:43:56 PST 1996
Article: 79886 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'The bodies were buried in the antitank ditch or excavation'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 00:03:53 GMT
Lines: 166

Otto Ohlendorf, chief of Einsatzgruppe D, testifies about Nazi
mass murder in the occupied USSR. Source: IMT Vol. IV, testimony
starts at page 311.


Q. How many Einsatz groups were there, and who were their respective
   leaders?

A. There were four Einsatzgruppen, Group A,B,C and D. Chief of
   Einsatzgruppe A was Stahlecker; Chief of Einsatzgruppe B was
   Nebe; Chief of Einsatzgruppe C, Dr. Rasche, and later, Dr.
   Thomas; Chief of Einsatzgruppe D, I myself, and later Bierkamp.

 .
 .
 .

Q. What were their instructions with respect to the Jews and the
   Communist functionaries?

A. The instructions were that in the Russian operational areas of
   the Einsatzgruppen the Jews, as well as the Soviet political
   commissars, were to be liquidated.

Q. And when you say "liquidated", do you mean "killed"?

A. Yes, I mean killed.

 .
 .
 .

Q. Did you personally supervise mass executions of these
   individuals?

A. I was present at two mass executions for purposes of inspection.

Q. Will you explain to the tribunal in detail how an individual
   mass execution was carried out?

A. A local Einsatzkommando attempted to collect all the Jews in its 
   area by registering them. This registration was performed by the
   Jews themselves.

Q. On what pretext, if any, were they rounded up?

A. On the pretext that they were to be resettled.

Q. Will you continue?

A. After the registration the Jews were collected at one place;
   and from there they were later transported to the place of
   execution, which was, as a rule an antitank ditch or a natural
   excavation. The executions were carried out in a military manner,
   by firing squads under command.

Q. In what way were they transported to the place of execution?

A. They were transported to the place of execution in trucks, always
   only as many as could be executed immediately. In this way it was
   attempted to keep the span of time from the moment in which the
   victims knew what was about to happen to them until the time of
   their actual execution as short as possible.

Q. Was that your idea?

A. Yes.

Q. And after they were shot what was done with the bodies?

A. The bodies were buried in the antitank ditch or excavation.

 .
 .
 .

Q. Were all victims, including the men, women, and children,
   executed in the same manner?

A. Until the spring of 1942, yes. Then an order came from Himmler
   that in the future women and children were to be killed only
   in gas vans.

Q. How had women and children been killed previously?

A. In the same way as the men - by shooting.

Q. What, if anything, was done about burying the victims after they
   had been executed?

A. The Kommandos filled the graves to efface the signs of execution,
   and then labor unit of the population leveled them.

Q. Referring to the gas vans which you said you received in the
   spring of 1942, what order did you receive with respect to the
   use of these vans?

A. These gas vans were in future to be used for the killing of the
   women and the children.

Q. Will you explain to the Tribunal the construction of these vans
   and their appearance?

A. The actual purpose of these vans could not be seen from the
   outside. They looked like closed trucks, and were so constructed
   that at the start of the motor, gas was conducted into the van
   causing death in 10 to 15 minutes.

Q. Explain in detail just how one of these vans was used for an
   execution.

A. The vans were loaded with the victims and driven to the place of
   burial, which was usually the same as that used for the mass
   executions. The time needed for transportation was sufficient
   to insure the death of the victims.

Q. How were the victims induced to enter the van?

A. They were told that they were to be transported to another 
   locality.

 .
 .
 .

Q. You said that mostly women and children were executed in these
   vans. For what reason?

A. That was a special order from Himmler to the effect that women
   and children were not to be exposed to the mental strain of the
   executions; and thus the men of the Kommandos, mostly married
   men, should not be compelled to aim at women and children.

 .
 .
 .

Q. In your testimony you said that the Einsatz group had the object
   of annihilating the Jews and the commissars, is that correct?

A. Yes.

Q. And in what category did you consider the children? For what
   reason were the children massacred?

A. The order was that the Jewish population should be totally 
   exterminated.

Q. Including the children?

A. Yes.

Q. Were all the Jewish children murdered?

A. Yes.




 

 






From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Nov 19 06:43:57 PST 1996
Article: 79888 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'the motor was then switched on by Gotringer'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 00:19:28 GMT
Lines: 14

Testimony of SS Oberscharfuehrer Erich Bauer
[Quoted in "BELZEC, SOBIBOR, TREBLINKA - the Operation Reinhard 
Death Camps", Indiana University Press - Yitzhak Arad, 1987, p. 77]
----------------------------------------------------------------
Usually the undressing went smoothly. Subsequently, the Jews were
taken through the "tube" to Camp III - the real extermination
camp. The transfer through the "tube" proceeded as follows: one
SS man was in the lead and five or six Ukrainian auxiliaries were
at the back hastening the Jews along. The women were taken through a 
barracks where their hair was cut off. In Camp III the Jews were
received by an SS man... As I already mentioned, the motor was then
switched on by Gotringer and one of the auxiliaries whose name I
don't remember. Then the gassed Jews were taken out.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Nov 19 06:43:59 PST 1996
Article: 79889 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'The gas chambers were closed for about thirty minutes'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 00:25:49 GMT
Lines: 26

Testimony of SS Oberscharfuehrer Heinrich Matthes about Treblinka
[Quoted in "BELZEC, SOBIBOR, TREBLINKA - the Operation Reinhard 
Death Camps", Indiana University Press - Yitzhak Arad, 1987, p. 121]
------------------------------------------------------------------
During the entire time I was in Treblinka, I served in the upper camp.
The upper camp was that part of Treblinka with the gas chambers,
where the Jews were killed and their corpses laid in large pits and
later burned.

About fourteen Germans carried out services in the upper camp. There
were two Ukrainians permanently in the upper camp. One of them was
called Nikolai, the other was a short man, I don't remember his name...
These two Ukrainians who lived in the upper camp served in the gas
chambers. They also took care of the engine room when Fritz Schmidt
was absent. Usually this Schmidt was in charge of the engine room. In
my opinion, as a civilian he was either a mechanic or a driver...

All together, six gas chambers were active. According to my estimate,
about 300 people could enter each gas chamber. The people went into
the gas chamber without resistance. Those who were at the end, the
Ukrainian guards had to push inside. I personally saw how the
Ukrainians pushed the people with their rifle butts...

The gas chambers were closed for about thirty minutes. Then Schmidt
stopped the gassing, and the two Ukrainians who were in the engine
room opened the gas chambers from the other side.


From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Nov 19 06:43:59 PST 1996
Article: 79890 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'I must state that most of them were gassed'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 00:06:20 GMT
Lines: 94

Testimony of Dr. Hans W. Muench 
[Quoted in "Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military 
Tribunals" - Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1949-1953, Vol.
VIII, p. 313-321]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Q. What was your first impression of Auschwitz when you arrived?

A. I had already heard about extermination camps, and particularly
   extermination camps for Jews, through reports over the Swiss radio
   that I listened to regularly in the preceding years, but since I
   considered this news to be propaganda, I did not believe it at the
   time, because the facts that were being described seemed too 
   terribly outrageous to me. When I arrived in Auschwitz, and had to
   convince myself personally that these reports were not exaggerated, 
   I was very much shaken emotionally.
 
 .
 .
 .


Q. Mr. witness, you were informed about the fact that human beings were
   gassed at Auschwitz?

A. Yes.

 .
 .
 .

Q. Mr. witness, for what reason did you not spread the fact that human
   beings were being gassed and exterminated?

A. I was asked this very often and also before the Supreme Court of 
   Cracow, and I can say in answer to it that that would have been a 
   completely useless undertaking which would have very shortly caused 
   me and my family to be liquidated very quickly, because the Gestapo 
   was so well organized and the threats for nonobservance of the 
   secrecy that surrounded the Auschwitz exterminations were so clearly 
   worded for members of the SS that everybody avoided telling even his 
   closest friend about it, because experience taught us that anybody 
   who talked about it in any way was very quickly found because the 
   Gestapo sniffed out every rumor very consistently that spread about 
   Auschwitz.

 .
 .
 .

Q. Mr. witness, what would you say if someone visited a plant in
   Auschwitz twice or three times a year for a period of one or two
   days? Would he then have to gain knowledge about these things?

A. I repeatedly witnessed guided tours of civilians and also of
   commissions of the Red Cross and other parties within the camp,
   and I was able to ascertain that the camp leadership arranged it
   masterfully to conduct these guided tours in such a way that the 
   people being guided around did not see anything about inhuman
   treatment. The main camp was shown only and in this main camp there
   were so-called show blocks, particularly block 13, that were
   especially prepared for such guided tours and that were equipped 
   like a normal soldier's barracks with beds that had sheets on them, 
   and well-functioning washrooms. 

 .
 .
 .

Q. Mr. witness, did you personally ever witness the gassing of human
   beings?

A. Yes, I saw one gassing at one time.

 .
 .
 .

Q. Mr. witness, you testified a little earlier that those who were sick
   in the camps, like in concentration camp Monowitz, would be sent to
   Auschwitz-Birkenau, but I wasn't quite clear as to why they were 
   sent to Auschwitz-Birkenau. I'd like to put just a question or two 
   to you on that. Mr. witness, those people who were in the hospital 
   at Monowitz and were shipped to Auschwitz-Birkenau because of an
   edema or phlegmon, for what purpose were they shipped to Birkenau?

A. As far as these people were Jews, I must state that most of them
   were gassed.


Q. And, Mr. witness, if they were sent from the hospital in Monowitz to
   Auschwitz-Birkenau, and they were Jews; and they were sent because 
   of weakness and collapse, why were they sent to Birkenau?

A. Also to be gassed.


From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Nov 19 06:44:00 PST 1996
Article: 79891 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'the people inside were suffocated'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 00:10:12 GMT
Lines: 40

SS-man Theodor Malzmueller on the Chelmno extermination camp 
[Quoted in 'The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The 
Free Press, NY, 1988., p. 217-219]
-----------------------------------------------------------------
When we arrived we had to report to the camp commandant,
SS-Hauptsturmfuehrer Bothmann. The SS-Haupsturmfuehrer addressed us in
his living quarters, in the presence of SS-Untersturmfuehrer Albert
Plate. He explained that we had been dedicated to the Kulmhof
[Chelmno] extermination camp as guards and added that in this camp the
plague boils of humanity, the Jews, were exterminated.  We were to
keep quiet about everything we saw or heard, otherwise we would have
to reckon with our families' imprisonment and the death penalty...

The extermination camp was made up of the so-called "castle" and the
camp in the woods. The castle was a fairly large stone building at the
edge of the village of Kulmhof. It was there that the Jews who had
been transported by lorry or railway were first brought...

When a lorry arrived the following members of the SS-Sonderkommando
addresses the Jews: (1) camp commandant Bothmann, (2) Untersturmfuehrer 
Albert Plate from North Germany, (3) Polizei-Meister Willy Lenz from
Silesia, (4) Polizei-Meister Alois Haeberle from Wuerttenberg. They
explained to the Jews that they would first of all be given a bath and
deloused in Kulmhof and then sent to Germany to work. The Jews then
went inside the castle. There they had to get undressed. After this
they were sent through a passage-way on to a ramp to the castle yard
where the so-called "gas-van" was parked. The back door of the van
would be open. The Jews were made to get inside the van. This job was
done by three Poles, who I believe were sentenced to death. The Poles
hit the Jews with whips if they did not get into the gas vans fast
enough. When all the Jews were inside the door was bolted. The driver
then switched on the engine, crawled under the van and connected a
pipe from the exhaust to the inside of the van. The exhaust fumes now
poured into the inside of the truck so that the people inside were
suffocated...




-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Nov 19 06:44:01 PST 1996
Article: 79892 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'Finally, new and larger gas chambers were built'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 00:27:30 GMT
Lines: 47

Willi Mentz testifies about his days in Treblinka
[Quoted in 'The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The 
Free Press, NY, 1988., p. 245-247]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
When I came to Treblinka the camp commandant was a doctor named Dr. Eberl.
He was very ambitious. It was said that he ordered more transports
than could be "processed" in the camp. That meant that trains had to
wait outside the camp because the occupants of the previous transport
had not yet all been killed. At the time it was very hot and as a
result of the long wait inside the transport trains in the intense
heat many people died. At the time whole mountains of bodies lay on
the platform. The Hauptsturmfuehrer Christian Wirth came to Treblinka
and kicked up a terrific row. And then one day Dr.  Eberl was no
longer there...

For about two months I worked in the upper section of the camp and
then after Eberl had gone everything in the camp was reorganized. The
two parts of the camp were separated by barbed wire fences. Pine
branches were used so that you could not see through the fences. The
same thing was done along the route from the "transfer" area to the
gas chambers...

Finally, new and larger gas chambers were built. I think that there
were now five or six larger gas chambers. I cannot say exactly how
many people these large gas chambers held. If the small gas chambers
could hold 80-100 people, the large ones could probably hold twice
that number...

Following the arrival of a transport, six to eight cars would be
shunted into the camp, coming to a halt at the platform there. The
commandant, his deputy Franz, Kuettner and Stadie or Maetzig would be
here waiting as the transport came in. Further SS members were also
present to supervise the unloading: for example, Genz and Belitz had
to make absolutely sure that there was no one left in the car after
the occupants had been ordered to get out.

When the Jews had got off, Stadie or Maetzig would have a short word
with them.  They were told something to the effect that they were a
resettlement transport, that they would be given a bath and that they
would receive new clothes. They were also instructed to maintain quiet
and discipline. They would continue their journey the following day.

Then the transports were taken off to the so-called "transfer" area.
The women had to undress in huts and the men out in the open. The
women were than led through a passageway, known as the "tube", to the
gas chambers. On the way they had to pass a hut where they had to hand
in their jewellery and valuables..


From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Nov 19 06:44:01 PST 1996
Article: 79896 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!peerfeed.internetmci.com!panix!feed1.news.erols.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Information for Holocaust Revisionists
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <328c2b79.73530678@news.gte.net>  <848098135.14332.16@vertigo.combase.com>
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 18:52:48 GMT
Lines: 26

Hardwire  writes:

# Gee, ya know, a concerted SHOUT is kind of FAR removed
# from simple laughter,

Who said it was "simple laughter"? Most probably it
was a Nazi version of "yeee-haw" or something of the
sort.

# Hell, I'd be happy to be retired (unemployed in his case
# means exactly that, RETIRED) at 46.

Good for you.

# I think the man deserves to be proud of that.

Good for you.

# Of course then again, what about you Danny?  Are you just
# wee bit jealous of that?

No.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Nov 19 06:44:02 PST 1996
Article: 79901 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!uniserve!news.sol.net!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: ihr7
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <56hau8$hqb@news3.gte.net> <848097747.14332.15@vertigo.combase.com>  <848106596.7315.1@vertigo.combase.com>
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 18:48:37 GMT
Lines: 19

hardwire@vertigo.combase.com writes:

# He posted what I saw to be an easily understandable
# excerpt.  He omitted all of a few words, namely
# "developed by Wirth".  It didn't lose it's meaning.
#  What's the problem?

I thought I explained it. In the camps which Wirth
supervised (Belzec, Treblinka, Sobibor) wood was used
to burn the corpses. Therefore, it makes sense to
assume that Morgen meant that wood was used, as
opposed to fuel such as gasoline.

The fact that Giwer omitted these three words "developed
by Wirth" cannot be accidental.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Nov 19 06:44:02 PST 1996
Article: 79925 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'Some bodies fell out'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 00:04:58 GMT
Lines: 16

Dr. Theodor Friedrich Leidig, testifying about one of the first 
gassings in Sachsenhausen, in which Soviet POW's were murdered
[Quoted in "Nazi Mass Murder: A Documentary History of the
Use of Poison Gas", edited by E. Kogon, H. Langbein, and
A. Rueckerl, Yale University Press, 1993, p. 54]
-------------------------------------------------------------------
I was told that the people who had climbed into the truck were
Russians who would otherwise have had to be shot. They were looking
for a different way of killing them. We then went to another place,
where we met the truck again. It was near the crematory oven. I can
still remember that one could see through a peephole or a small
window into the inside of the truck, which was lit up. One could see
that the people were dead.  The van was opened. Some bodies fell
out; the others were unloaded by prisoners. Those of us who were
chemists could ascertain that the bodies had that pinkish look which
is typical of victims of carbon monoxide poisoning.


From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Nov 19 06:44:03 PST 1996
Article: 79928 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!out2.nntp.cais.net!news.cais.net!in1.nntp.cais.net!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'It was in a compressed gas container'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 00:28:59 GMT
Lines: 78

Testimony of Brack, regarding gassing of insane people in Germany
[Quoted in "Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military 
Tribunals" - Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1949-1953, Vol. I, 
p. 876-886].
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: Witness, when adult persons were selected for euthanasia and sent
   by transport to euthanasia stations for that purpose, by what
   methods were the mercy deaths given?

A: The patients went to a euthanasia institution after the written
   formalities were concluded - I need not repeat these formalities
   here, they were physical examinations, comparison of the files,
   etc. Then the patients were led to a gas chamber and were there 
   killed by the doctors with carbon monoxide gas (CO).

Q: Where was that carbon monoxide obtained, by what process?

A: It was in a compressed gas container, like a steel oxygen
   container, such as is used for welding - a hollow steel
   container.

Q: And these people were placed in this chamber in groups, I
   suppose, and then the carbon monoxide was turned into the
   chambers?

A: Perhaps I had better explain this in some detail. Bouhler's
   basic requirement was that the killing should not only be
   painless, but also imperceptible. For this reason, the
   photographing of the patients, which was only done for
   scientific reasons, took place before they entered the
   chambers, and the patients were completely diverted thereby.
   Then they were led into the gas chamber which they were
   told was a shower room. They were in groups of perhaps
   20 or 30. They were gassed by the doctor in charge.
 .
 .
 .

Q. What was done with the bodies of these people after mercy deaths
   were given?

A. When the room had been cleared of gas again, stretchers were
   brought in and the bodies were carried into an adjoining
   room. There the doctor examined them to determine whether they
   were dead.

Q. Then what happened to the bodies?

A. After the doctor had determined death, he freed the bodies for
   cremation and they were cremated.

Q. After he had freed the bodies, had determined that they were
   dead, they were then cremated? Is that correct?

A. Yes.

Q. There was a crematory built for every one of these institutions?

A. Yes. Crematoriums were built in the institutions.
 .
 .
 .

Q. And these people thought that they were going in to take a shower
   bath?

A. If any of them had any power of reasoning, they had no doubt
   thought that.

Q. Well now, were they taken into the shower rooms with their
   clothes on or were they nude?

A. No. They were nude.

Q. In every case?

A. Whenever I saw them, yes.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Nov 19 06:44:04 PST 1996
Article: 79932 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!out2.nntp.cais.net!news.cais.net!in1.nntp.cais.net!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'These people were gassed to death and then burned'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 00:16:38 GMT
Lines: 18

Excerpt from the statement of Heinrich Ruoff, who was employed in
one of the Nazi "Euthanasia" (mercy killing) centers
[Quoted in "The Hadamar Trial", p. 75]
-----------------------------------------------------------------
My name is Heinrich Ruoff and I reside in the asylum at Hadamar. I
began working in the asylum at Hadamar as chief male nurse in 1926.
In about the year 1933 Bernotat became supervisor of the Institution.
About 1935 Alfons Klein came there and became later on administration
chief under Bernotat. In 1940 the program of killing started. Those 
people who were brought here were German mentally sick. These people 
were gassed to death and then burned. Bernotat instructed the people 
who worked there that they were not allowed to say anything about what
they heard, saw, and did.



-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Nov 19 06:44:04 PST 1996
Article: 79963 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!peerfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Cremation Rates
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32898f2a.813878@199.0.216.204> <3291c1cf.785976@199.0.216.204>  <328E6C52.7293@nbnet.nb.ca>
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 05:55:06 GMT
Lines: 11

Keith Morrison  writes:

# Ahem, Dr Keren?  You *do* remember this is Tom "2 square
# feet is the same as 1100 square feet" Moran, don't you?

Sheesh. Thanks for reminding me. I could not see the
forest for all the trees! :-)


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Nov 19 06:44:05 PST 1996
Article: 79988 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.alfred.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!EU.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'I witnessed an execution of Jews at Belzec extermination camp'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 23:57:02 GMT
Lines: 67

Professor Wilhelm Pfannenstiel, Waffen-SS hygienist, on a gassing 
at Belzec
[Quoted in 'The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The 
Free Press, NY, 1988., p. 238-244]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
When I am asked about executions of Jews I must confirm that on 19 August
1942 I witnessed an execution of Jews at Belzec extermination camp. I
would like to describe how I came to be there. During my conversations
with SS-Brigadefuehrer Globocnik, he told me about the large
spinning-mills that he had set up in Belzec. He also mentioned that
work at this camp would considerably outstrip German production. When
I asked him where the spinning materials came from, he told me proudly
that they had come from the Jews. At this point he also mentioned the
extermination actions against the Jews, who for the most part were
killed at the the camp at Belzec...

During this first visit I was taken to around by a certain
Polizieihauptmann named Wirth, who also showed and explained to me the
extermination installations at the camp. He told me that the following
morning a new transport of about 500 Jews would be arriving at the
camp who would be channeled through these extermination chambers. He
asked me whether I would like to watch one of these extermination
actions, to which, after a great deal of reflection, I consented. I
planned to submit a report to the Reichsarzt-SS about the
extermination actions. In order to write a report I had, however,
first to observe an action with my own eyes. I remained in the camp,
spent the night there and was witness to the following events the next
morning.

A goods train traveled directly into the camp of Belzec, the freight
cars were opened and Jews whom I believe were from the area of Romania
or Hungary were unloaded. The cars were crammed fairly full. There
were men, women and children of every age. They were ordered to get
into line and then had to proceed to an assembly area and take off
their shoes...

After the Jews had removed their shoes they were separated by sex. The
women went together with the children into a hut. There their hair was
shorn and they had to get undressed... The men went into another hut,
where they received the same treatment. I saw what happened in the
women's hut with my own eyes. After they had undressed, the whole
procedure went fairly quickly. They ran naked from the hut through a
hedge into the actual extermination centre. The whole extermination
centre looked just like a normal delousing institution. In front of
the building there were pots of geraniums and a sign saying "Hackenholt
Foundation", above which there was a star of David. The building was
brightly and pleasantly painted so as not to suggest people would be
killed here...

Inside the buildings, the Jews had to enter chambers into which was
channeled the exhaust of a [100(?)]-HP engine, located in the same
building. In it there were six such extermination chambers. They were
windowless, had electric lights and two doors. One door led outside so
that the bodies could be removed.  People were led from a corridor
into the chambers through an ordinary air-tight door with bolts. There
was a glass peep-hole, as I recall, next to the door in the wall.
Through this window one could watch what was happening inside the room
but only when it was not too full of people. After a short time the
glass became steamed up. When the people had been locked in the room
the motor was switched on and then I suppose the stop-valves or vents
to the chambers opened.  Whether they were stop-valves or vents I
would not like to say. It is possible that the pipe led led directly
to the chambers. Once the engine was running, the light in the
chambers was switched off. This was followed by palpable disquiet in
the chamber. In my view it was only then that the people sensed
something else was in store for them. It seemed to me that behind the
thick walls and door they were praying and shouting for help.


From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Nov 19 06:44:06 PST 1996
Article: 80001 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: "Umfallen" and deliberate mistranslation
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <56irgs$gh0$1@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net> <19961116222700.RAA21929@ladder01.news.aol.com>
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 08:07:56 GMT
Lines: 41

dvdthomas@aol.com writes:

[Some Himmler apologetics]

Himmler obviously meant that he doesn't care if the
Russian females drop dead when digging the anti-tank
ditch for Germany. Some quotes from his infamous speech:

 "What happens to a Russian, to a Czech,
does not interest me in the slightest".

 "Whether nations live in
prosperity or starve to death interests me only in so far as we
              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
need them as slaves for our culture; otherwise, it is of no 
interest to me".

 "Whether 10,000 Russian females fall down from exhaustion
while digging an anti-tank ditch interest me only in so far as
the anti-tank ditch for Germany is finished. We shall never be rough
and heartless when it is not necessary, that is clear. We Germans,
who are the only people in the world who have a decent attitude
towards animals, will also assume a decent attitude towards these
human animals".

 "When someone comes to me and says, "I cannot dig the anti-tank 
ditch with women and children, it is inhuman, for it will kill them", 
           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
then I would have to say, "you are a murderer of your own blood 
because if the anti-tank ditch is not dug, German soldiers will die, 
and they are the sons of German mothers. They are our own blood".

There is nothing here that is not clear. Himmler is saying that
if ten-thousand Russian women - who he considers to be "human
animals" - die, while doing slave labor for Germany, he
doesn't care. I consider this speech to be, possibly, the best
representative of Nazi "ideology".


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Nov 19 06:44:07 PST 1996
Article: 80005 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!feed1.news.erols.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Information for Holocaust Revisionists
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <328c2b79.73530678@news.gte.net>  <328e698e.88450835@news.gte.net>
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 08:19:30 GMT
Lines: 34

fred@frog.net (prince) writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

## Funny thing is that I asked about this in the aviation
## groups. One fellow who flew a Mustang in the war said that
## he once shouted instructions to a comrade on the ground
## (while flying), and that the other fellow had no special
## problems hearing him.  

# You are lying.  You are telling a very stupid lie.  And you 
# know you telling a very stupid lie.  

You're wrong again, Mattie.

# And if I give you the benefit of the doubt that you were in fact
# told that 

Check dejanews.

# then you were sent out for a left handed monkey wrench and
# he just made a fool of you.

No. It's an excerpt from a book that the pilot, Mr. Erik Shilling,
wrote; he was kind enough to repost it as a reply to my question,
thus he didn't "invent" it for me.

Face it, Matt. You don't know nothing about anything. Everything
you say is wrong. Live with it: you can't think, and you don't
know nothing. But this doesn't mean you can't be a "leading
revisionist scholar". 


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Nov 19 06:44:07 PST 1996
Article: 80061 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!feed1.news.erols.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: ihr7
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <56hau8$hqb@news3.gte.net>
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 19:26:50 GMT
Lines: 25

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes:

# "MORGEN: These places were faked cloakrooms, and the person
# was given a check at each one so that the people believed
#that they would get their things back ... When the last one
# was in, the doors were shut and the gas was let into the room.
# As soon as death had set in, the ventilators were started. When
# the air could be breathed again, the doors were opened, and the
# Jewish workers removed the bodies. By means of a special
#  procedure... they were burned in the open air without the use
            ^^^
# of fuel."

Note how Giwer carefully deleted the reference in Morgen's
testimony to a "procedure developed by Wirth", which most
probably means that he was referring to the fact that wood
was used, and not gasoline (as in the "Reinhard" camps,
which were under Wirth's supervision).

Never trust a "revisionist" to correctly quote a source. They
are, after all, lying scum.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Nov 19 06:44:08 PST 1996
Article: 80062 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!EU.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Cremation Rates
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32898f2a.813878@199.0.216.204> <328bdd82.1119206@199.0.216.204>  <328d83ad.267594@199.0.216.204>
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 19:54:43 GMT
Lines: 18

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

# You can wail and gnash your teeth all you want out here on
# this format, but when it all is presented to the open mind,
# it is one of big convincing points for revisionism.

Sigh. Tommy, you yourself supported the figure of 4 per hour
in one muffle. Assuming *only* 12 hours of operation per day,
this was enough to burn over 2,000 corpses in the 46 furnaces
at Birkenau, in one day.

Can you provide any rational explanation as to why a "work
camp", with a population of a few tens-of-thousands, needed
such incredible cremation capacity?


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Nov 19 06:44:09 PST 1996
Article: 80121 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.axionet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'The bodies were thrown into the antitank ditches'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 23:49:54 GMT
Lines: 15

Wilhelm Findeisen testifies about a gassing in Kiev
[Quoted in "Nazi Mass Murder: A Documentary History of the
Use of Poison Gas", edited by E. Kogon, H. Langbein, and
A. Rueckerl, Yale University Press, 1993, p. 62]
------------------------------------------------------------------
The gas van was deployed for the first time in Kiev. My job was just
to drive the vehicle. The van was loaded by the local staff. About
forty people were loaded inside. There were men, women, and children.
I was supposed to tell the people they were going to be put to work.
The people were pushed up a short ladder and into the van...
 
I drove through the town to the antitank ditches. There the doors of
the vehicle were opened. Prisoners had to do this. The bodies were
thrown into the antitank ditches. I am sure that it was in Kiev; I
myself took part in this operation.


From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Nov 19 06:44:10 PST 1996
Article: 80122 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.axionet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'I only gassed them'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 23:50:44 GMT
Lines: 27

Erich Gnewuch testifies about gassings in Nazi-occupied USSR, 1942-3
[Quoted in "Nazi Mass Murder: A Documentary History of the
Use of Poison Gas", edited by E. Kogon, H. Langbein, and
A. Rueckerl, Yale University Press, 1993, p. 57-9]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
On orders from my department, I too drove a gas-van from Berlin to
Minsk. These vans had been constructed with a lockable cargo
compartment, like a moving van.
 
 .
 .
 .

I was detailed with the gas-van to about twelve convoys of arriving
Jews. It was in 1942. There were about a thousand Jews in each
convoy. With each arrival I made five or six trips with my van.
Some of the Jews were shot. I myself never shot a single Jew; I
only gassed them.

 .
 .
 .

A ghetto operation took place in the autumn of 1943. I was put into
action only once with the gas-van. I made three trips with it to the
execution site. I gassed about 150 to 180 people. 



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Nov 19 06:44:10 PST 1996
Article: 80123 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.axionet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'I made many complaints to Hoess'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 23:53:55 GMT
Lines: 26



Testimony of SS-Obersturmfuehrer Franz Hoessler  
[Quoted in "The Belsen Trial" - Edited by R. Phillips, William Hodge
and Company, 1949, p. 714-715]
----------------------------------------------------------------
Everyone in the camp knew about the gas chamber at Auschwitz, but at 
no time did I take part in the selection of prisoners who were to go to
the gas chambers and then be cremated. Whilst I was there selection of
prisoners for the gas chambers was done by Dr. Klein, Dr. Mengele and
other young doctors whose names I do not know. I have attended these
parades, but my job was merely to keep order. Often women were paraded
naked in front of the doctors and persons selected by the doctors were
sent to the gas chamber.

 .
 .
 .

I made many complaints to Hoess about the way people were being sent to
the gas chamber, but I was told it was not my business.




-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Nov 19 06:44:11 PST 1996
Article: 80124 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.axionet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'These mentally diseased people were taken into the gas chambers'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 23:55:06 GMT
Lines: 33

Excerpts from the testimony of Alfons Klein, who was employed at
the "Euthanasia" (mercy killing) center in Hadamar
[Quoted in "The Hadamar Trial", p. 87]
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Q. Was there not an inspection of the Institution before October,
   1940, in August, 1940?

A. There were two inspections by Landesrat Bernotat and two people
   from the Ministry in Berlin. At the first inspection nobody told
   me what the purpose of it was. At the second inspection it was
   explained to me that the Reich administration had decided that all
   incurable, mentally diseased people should be killed. Landserat
   Bernotat told me that the Hadamar Institution was rented to Berlin
   to the Gemeinde Stiftung.

[...]

Q. Who was in charge of this Foundation?

A. At that time I was told that the office of the Fuehrer was in charge
   of it.

Q. During what period was this Foundation active in Hadamar?

A. From January, 1941, until August, 1941.

Q. What was done during that period?

A. Bigger transports of mentally diseased people came from different
   Institutions. These mentally diseased people were taken into the gas
   chambers and killed there.




From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Nov 19 06:44:12 PST 1996
Article: 80153 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!news.eecs.umich.edu!panix!feed1.news.erols.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'Nazis Punished For Killing Jews'? I
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 23:55:11 GMT
Lines: 109

       Summary: "Revisionist" Lies About "Nazis Having
              Been Punished For Killing Jews"
       -----------------------------------------------

Recently, some "revisionists" have claimed that various 
Nazis have been "punished for killing Jews", which "proves 
that it is not possible that there was an extermination 
policy, for if there was, how come the Nazis punished people 
for killing Jews?".

Some "examples" were given, among them:

1) Amon Goeth. One "revisionist" (posting under the alias of
   "rblackmore") claimed that Goeth was "executed by the SS 
   for killing Jews". An outright lie, of course; Goeth was 
   tried and hanged by the Poles after the war.

2) Dr. Sigmund Rascher. "rblackmore" claimed he was executed
   by the SS for killing Jews. Another outright lie; Rascher
   conducted his murderous medical experiments for a long time,
   with the full support of the Nazi leadership (mostly Himmler).
   He was arrested and executed for a completely different
   reason, namely, illegal adoption of children.

Hence, "rblackmore" is a shameless liar, and his two
"examples" are invalid. But this is hardly surprising; after
all, he's a "revisionist scholar". 

Now, is it true that Nazis were punished for participating
in mass murder of Jews? Not really. Possibly the best 
source on this is the trial of Max Taubner, a member of
the SS, who participated in the mass murder of Jews in
Nazi-occupied USSR. I am including an excerpt below.

Now, note that the SS-court, indeed, sentenced Taubner
to 12 years in prison. However, the SS-court explicitly
states that "the Jews have to be exterminated", and it 
specifically notes that Taubner is *not* punished for the 
act of killing itself, but for:

1) Conducting the murders in a "barbaric" fashion.

2) Taking photographs of the executions and showing
   them in Germany.

Here is the excerpt.

BTW, Taubner was released from jail after a short time.

Excerpts from Verdict of the SS Court in Munich, against 
SS-Untersturmfuehrer Max Taubner, 24 of May 1943
['The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The Free Press, 
NY, 1988, p, 196-207]
-----------------------------------------------------------------

1. The accused shall not be punished because of the actions against
the Jews as such. The Jews have to be exterminated and none of the 
Jews that were killed is any great loss. Although the accused should
have recognized that the extermination of the Jews was the duty of
Kommandos which were set up especially for this purpose, he should
be excused for considering himself to have the authority to take
part in the extermination of Jewry himself. Real hatred of the Jews
was the driving motivation for the accused. In the process he let
himself be drawn into committing cruel actions in Alexandriya which
are unworthy of a German man and an SS-officer. These excesses cannot
be justified, either, as the accused would like to, as retaliation
for the pain that the Jews have caused the German people. It is not
the German way to apply Bolshevic methods during the necessary
extermination of the worst enemy of our people. In so doing the
conduct of the accused gives rise to considerable concern. The
accused allowed his men to act with such vicious brutality that
they conducted themselves under his command like a savage horde...

2. By taking photographs of the incidents or having photographs
taken, by having these developed in photographic shops and showing
them to his wife and friends, the accused is guilty of disobedience.
Such pictures could pose the gravest risks to the security of the
Reich if they fell into the wrong hands...


Dismissal of the case against the remaining parties, 1 June 1943

The following has been established on the basis of the main trial
of SS-Untersturmfuehrer Max Taubner...
The following men were party to the punishable acts committed or
ordered by SS-Untersturmfuehrer Max Taubner:

1. SS-Unterscharfuehrer Walter Muller particularly stood out during
the shootings of Jews with the brutality with which he tore small
Jewish children from their mothers. He held these children in
front of him with his left hand and then, with his right hand,
shot them with a pistol.

 .
 . [three more SS-personnel accused]
 .

Allowances have been made for the fact that the accused were, without
exception, acting on the orders of and under the responsibility
of Untersturmfuehrer Max Taubner. In this respect, their own 
culpability may be described as slight...

The cases against these accused have therefore been dismissed.




-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Nov 19 06:44:13 PST 1996
Article: 80163 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.correct,soc.culture.african.american,soc.culture.jewish,alt.discrimination
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.alfred.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Boycott NIGGER Athletes, Now!
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <19961115140917.LAA88289@ladder01.news.aol.com> <328d276a.17094898@news.txdirect.net> <328d9895.34953885@news.gte.net>
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 19:58:48 GMT
Lines: 14
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.conspiracy:110834 alt.revisionism:80163 alt.politics.correct:156236 soc.culture.african.american:130476 soc.culture.jewish:92130 alt.discrimination:56306

pj@o.rourke (Leprechaun) writes:

# Keep in mind my first wife tried to claim that pictures
# of dozens of bottles of Mogen David wine were mine.  I
# never drank that sweet shit.  But you kikes apparently
# love it.

Can someone contact the appropriate authorities in Tampa,
Florida, and tell them that this person should be
hospitalized already?


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Nov 19 06:44:13 PST 1996
Article: 80167 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.alfred.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.magicnet.net!feed1.news.erols.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Aluminum foil contains pork? [was: Re: Two Questions for Charles (Month
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <56hark$hqb@news3.gte.net> <56jf0b$sp8@news.enter.net> <328e1f85.40664373@news.micron.net>
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 20:39:31 GMT
Lines: 27

kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt Stele) writes:

# "We Jews, we are the destroyers and will remain the
# destroyers. Nothing you can do  will meet our demands and
# needs. We will forever destroy because we want a world of
# our  own." (You Gentiles, by Jewish Author Maurice Samuels,
# p. 155).

Is this a book? ("You Gentiles"). Has anyone ever seen it?
Does it have an ISBN number? Just curious.


-Danny Keren.

 ----
For a summary of the "revisionist" position, look at what
Nazi propagandist and "revisionist", Kurt Stele, wrote:

 From:         kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele)
 Message-Id:   <4ut4ht$p8i@newsbf02.news.aol.com>

# The Holocaust is a funny thing..
# When you hear about it, you wish it never happened..
# When you discover it's a hoax ya kind of wish it did!
# Kurt Stele




From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Nov 19 06:44:14 PST 1996
Article: 80170 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.alfred.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.magicnet.net!feed1.news.erols.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Cremation Rates
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32898f2a.813878@199.0.216.204> <328d83ad.267594@199.0.216.204>  <3291c1cf.785976@199.0.216.204>
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 19:12:19 GMT
Lines: 37

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

# "2000" a day still leaves from 10,000 to 20,000
# bodies a day to get rid of, beyond the oven capacities.

No. 2,000 a day is 700,000 a year. That was enough,
as about 1.3 million people were murdered in Auschwitz
during 5 years. Can't you handle third-grade arithmetic?
What's wrong with you?

# Having learned their lesson from previous typhus
# epidemics it is probable the Germans would have built
# more ovens for contingency purposes.

Rubbish. They would have, instead, made an effort
to reduce the risk of typhus, or would have stopped
sending people there.

Moreover, the big typhus epidemic took place in 1942,
before the four large crematoriums were built. And they
managed to dispose of the corpses, nonetheless. Why
go and add 46 furnaces to the 6 existing ones, if these
were enough!? Answer: very simple. They planned to
kill a far greater number of people, and this is
exactly what they did.

The only document I am aware of, which gives a reason
for the building of the crematoriums, says they have
to be completed urgently "because of the situation caused
by the special actions". "Special actions" meant murder,
as numerous sources, including the letter from SS-General
Rodl to Arthur Liebenscel, prove (I posted it not long
ago).


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Nov 19 06:44:15 PST 1996
Article: 80307 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'Leprechaun' = Giwer? (Re: Attack on Alt.Revi
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <558uaj$38a@panix2.panix.com> <328a539b.94218644@news.txdirect.net> <847981833.5832.0@vertigo.combase.com> <328c5255.83478475@news.gte.net>
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 19:33:17 GMT
Lines: 20

pj@o.rourke (Leprechaun) writes:

(Message-ID: <328c5255.83478475@news.gte.net>)

# People with names like Mazal can not be ver bright.
# But what do you expect from a holohugger?  None of
# them ever leraned to think.

This is, indeed, most probably another Matt Giwer
alias. Sounds exactly the same and also posts from
gte.net. Note also the many typos - always happens
when the poor slob drinks too much.

Matt, get a job already, you damned stinkin' leech!
You claim to have an IQ of 163. Why on earth can't
you find work?


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Nov 19 06:44:16 PST 1996
Article: 80314 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hammer.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Attack on Alt.Revisionism -- Gate.Net Refuses to Help
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <558uaj$38a@panix2.panix.com> <328b4cc1.2248989@news.spry.com> <848091714.14332.2@vertigo.combase.com> <328d3f3c.12081467@news.gte.net>
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 19:38:16 GMT
Lines: 59

        Giwer wants to kill people who disagree 
            with him about historical facts
        ---------------------------------------

Since my opinion about the attack on the USS Liberty,
in the midst of the 1967 Arab-Israeli War, differs from 
his (I believe the attack was an accident), Matt Giwer
says I deserve to die, and he adds an explicit threat to 
kill me himself.

Score one for "revisionist support for freedom of speech".

Needless to say, no "revisionist" has denounced Giwer
for all of this.


 From mgiwer@ix.netcom.com Tue Sep 17 09:07:00 EDT 1996
 Article: 121220 of alt.revisionism

[Giwer writes to me]

# Were you at my back in combat I would turn and kill you
# first as you can not be trusted to have loyalties to the
# US above all others.  

 From mgiwer@ix.netcom.com Sat Sep 21 17:58:06 EDT 1996
 Article: 122260 of alt.revisionism

# Keren of course is an apologist liar for murdering jews and 
# a traitor because his loyalties are to Israel rather than to
# the US.
#
# The curse is upon him.
#
# He and everyone like him has been formally reported to the US
# Gov and they have no mroe chance of getting or retaining a
# security clearance than Pollard and for the same reason, they
# are no loyal Americans.
#
# They have all supported Isreali murders of Americans.
#
# Their fate should be death but the curse is now upon them.  

 From mgiwer@ix.netcom.com Sat Sep 21 18:10:17 EDT 1996
 Article: 122347 of alt.revisionism

[Giwer writes to me]

# May napalm burn you skin.  May cannon fire tear your
# apart.  May you know death from drowning.

# And may you live to suffer all again and again until the 
# end of time and from then into eternity.  




-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Nov 19 06:44:17 PST 1996
Article: 80330 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!peerfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The Swiss Banking issue
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <3290e77f.244196@news.gte.net>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 06:41:43 GMT
Lines: 38

impoverished@shtetl.com (Swiss bank billions) writes:

# For decades now we have been treated to the image of a poor
# downtrodden people who had lived for centuries under the
# oppression of christians in law and custom.

No one claimed that the average Jew in Germany, Austria,
France, Holland etc was poor.

# But now we find that before those unpleasant things
# happened, these humble people transferred BILLIONS of
# dollars in cash assets to foreign banks.

Sigh. Matt, you're talking about millions of people.

# Does anyone see anything wrong with this picture?
# Something a little contradictory here?

No.

# So which image is the correct one?  The poor jew or
# the rich jew?

Some were rich, some were average, some were poor. Is it
really so hard to grasp? Well, it may be hard for you...
after all, you wrote what appears below, right?

Sheesh. No wonder you're unemployed.


-Danny Keren.

 ---
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Nov 19 06:44:17 PST 1996
Article: 80367 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Numero Uno Witness - Torture/Confession/Admissions
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <329d92a7.7867237@199.0.216.204>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 06:13:40 GMT
Lines: 48

The "revisionists" often claim that the memoirs of Rudolph Hoess,
commandant of Auschwitz, were "dictated" to him during his trial
in Poland. According to the "revisionists", the Poles and Soviets
told Hoess what to write. Naturally, they offer no proof of this.

Looking at the memoirs, we see that Hoess writes, among other
things, that:

1) The Soviet POW's in Auschwitz behaved like a herd of animals.
   Hoess writes that they practiced cannibalism, and often killed
   each other for a piece of bread.

Can anyone offer any rational explanation as to why the Soviets
would "dictate" something like this to Hoess? 

Hoess also writes that -

2) The Polish inmates were constantly engaged in violent clashes
   among themselves, while trying to reach a higher status in the
   inmate hierarchy. He even says that many of them intentionally
   infected others with spotted fever and typhus, which resulted
   in the death of the infected person.
   
Can anyone offer any rational explanation as to why the Poles
would "dictate" something like this to Hoess? 

Hoess also writes that -

3) The total number of deaths in Auschwitz was about 1.2 million
   (a rather accurate estimation). But the Soviets and the Poles
   claimed at that time, and years later, that 4 million people
   were murdered in the camp.

Can anyone offer any rational explanation as to why the Poles
and Soviets would "dictate" to Hoess a figure far lower than
the one they gave? Had they "dictated" his memoir to him, they
would obviously tell him to give a figure similar to theirs. But
Hoess not only gives a far lower figure, he also mocks the higher
estimates!

The obvious conclusion is that Hoess' memoir was not "dictated"
to him. The claim that it was is just one more insane
"revisionist" conjecture, unsupported by any evidence and
contradicting basic logic.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Nov 19 06:44:18 PST 1996
Article: 80368 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: 'One cannot protest when in the army'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <329032e8.75368853@news.gte.net>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 06:08:45 GMT
Lines: 22

Sid@Yid.verycom (Sidney the Yid) writes:

# Proof positive that the 11 year old child, Elie Wiesel as
# exterminated.

As I recall, he was 15, not 11.

# Thank you dumbshit and how are those conversations with
# race track drivers goind?

Matt, you have posted here that you are unemployed since
you were 46-years-old. This is bound to make one bitter
and hateful; more so in your case, when the starting
point was so low.

I am sorry that you are a zero; I am sorry that your life
is a failure; but, as I told you already, it ain't my fault,
so, please, don't take it out on me.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Nov 19 09:34:06 PST 1996
Article: 80403 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The Criminal Giwer is Wrong Again
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <848252800.26512.7@vertigo.combase.com> <56o39f$6cr@news.enter.net> <329187ac.87680651@news.micron.net>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 17:13:52 GMT
Lines: 11

kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt Stele) writes:

[yakiti-yakiti-yak]

# Fuck you Jew.

How many Zyklon-B coupons is this worth, kurtzi?


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Nov 20 06:02:04 PST 1996
Article: 80414 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!peerfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Hitler Talks About the Jews, I
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 11:25:41 GMT
Lines: 10

Speech by Hitler, January 31, 1939
[Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military Tribunals - 
Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1949-1953, Vol XIII, p. 131]
---------------------------------------------------------------
Today I will once more be a prophet: If the international Jewish financiers
in and outside Europe should succeed in plunging the nations once more into
a world war, then the result will not be the bolshevization of the earth,
and thus the victory of Jewry, but the annihilation of the Jewish race in
Europe!



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Nov 20 06:02:05 PST 1996
Article: 80416 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.idt.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Goebbels Talks About the Jews, I
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 11:32:09 GMT
Lines: 12

The Goebbels [Reich propaganda Minister] diaries, March 27, 1942: 
[The Goebbels Diaries 1942-1943 - L.P. Lochner, Doubleday & Co., 1948, 
p. 147-148]
-----------------------------------------------------------
Beginning with Lublin, the Jews in the General Government 
[Nazi occupied Poland] are now being evacuated eastward. The procedure 
is a pretty barbaric one and not to be described here more definitely. 
Not much will remain of the Jews. On the whole it can be said that about 
60 per cent of them will have to be liquidated whereas only 40 per cent 
can be used for forced labor.
 



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Nov 20 06:02:06 PST 1996
Article: 80417 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!peerfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Himmler Talks About the Jews, II
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 11:30:56 GMT
Lines: 13

Speech by Reichsfuehrer-SS Himmler at Kharkow, April 1943
[Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression - Washington, U.S Govt. Print. 
Off., 1946, Vol. IV, p. 572-574]
----------------------------------------------------------
We have - I would say, as very consistent National Socialists,
taken the question of blood as our starting point. We were the
first really to solve the problem of blood by action, and in
this connection, by problem of blood, we of course do not
mean antisemitism. Antisemitism is exactly the same as delousing.
Getting rid of lice is not a question of ideology. It is a 
matter of cleanliness.
 



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Nov 20 06:02:07 PST 1996
Article: 80446 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.alfred.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'Nazis Punished For Killing Jews'? II
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 23:58:44 GMT
Lines: 25

In continuation to the previous article: not only were SS-men
not punished for participating in mass murder, they were
awarded medals for it!

Letter from SS-Obersturmbannfuehrer Rodl to the inspector of 
concentration camps, SS-Obersturmbannfuehrer Liebehenschel, 14 
November 1941
[Hitler and the Final Solution - G. Fleming, University of California
Press, 1984, p. 99]
-------------------------------------------------------------------- 
The Commandant's office has submitted to date two lists recommending
the conferment of the Kreigverdienstkreuz [war service cross]. In
both of these appear SS personnel who participated in executions. We
herewith request confirmation as to whether these names should be
listed once again in the roll currently under preparation. Further
requested is information as to whether in the recommendation lists
under "reasons and comments of immediate superior" there should be
specified "execution, i.e., special action" or whether a general,
routine reason should be given.




-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Nov 20 06:02:08 PST 1996
Article: 80560 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!wesley.videotron.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Treblinka
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <56rdj4$jo8@Vir.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 14:15:42 GMT
Lines: 31

Jean-Francois Beaulieu  writes:

# I've see many comments from people here who state that
# I'm taking up details without 'seing the evidence', while
# the evidence is that the camera wasn't hidden,

No, it's not. Your "engineering" skills seem to be on par
with those of Fred Leuchter.

I guess you claim that the Suchomel who testified in
his trial wasn't the REAL Suchomel?

The the Richard Bock talking in the BBC's "World At
War" is not the REAL Richard Bock?

Etc, etc, etc...

# For a 5,000 meter square area, how much deep would you
# have to dig if you want to burry 800,000 persons?

I'd say about 7 meters. Depends, of course, on the
average weight.

# I've already done my calculus,

And the world is, no doubt, anxiously waiting to hear
your results. Have you consulted the other two great
"revisionist mathematicians", Giwer and Moran?


-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Nov 20 06:02:08 PST 1996
Article: 80569 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.alfred.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Frank Talks About the Jews, II
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 11:35:44 GMT
Lines: 23

Speech by Frank [Governor of occupied Poland], December 16 1941
[Documents on the Holocaust - Edited by Y. Arad, Y. Gutman, A. Margaliot,
NY, Ktav Pub. House in Association with Yad-Vashem, 1981, p. 247, Nazi 
Conspiracy and Aggression - Washington, U.S Govt. Print. 
Off., 1946 Vol. II p. 634]
---------------------------------------------------------------
One way or another -- I will tell you quite openly -- we must finish 
off the Jews. The Fuehrer put it into words once: should united Jewry
again succeed in setting off a world war, then the blood sacrifice
shall not be made only by the peoples driven into war, but then the
Jew of Europe will have met his end....
 
But what should be done with the Jews? Can you believe that they will
be accommodated in settlements in the Ostland? In Berlin we were told:
why are you making all this trouble? We don't want them either, not in
Ostland nor in the Reichskommissariat; liquidate them yourselves!
Gentlemen, I must ask you to steel yourselves against all
considerations of compassion. We must destroy the Jews wherever we
find them, and wherever it is at all possible, in order to maintain
the whole structure of the Reich...
 




From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Nov 20 06:02:10 PST 1996
Article: 80570 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.alfred.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Himmler Updates Hitler About the Mass Murders in the East
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 11:46:45 GMT
Lines: 30

(See 

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?orgs/german/einsatzgruppen/images
report-51.jpg

for a photograph of this document)


Report No. 51 of Reichsfuehrer-SS Himmler to Hitler about mass 
executions in the east, 1942
[Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military Tribunals - 
Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1949-1953, Vol. XIII, p. 269-272]
----------------------------------------------------------------
                              August  September  October  November   
 
Prisoners executed
after interrogation            2,100    1,400     1,596     2,731    
 .
 .
Accomplices of guerrilla and
guerrilla suspects executed    1,198    3,020     6,333     3,706    
 .
 .
Jews executed                 31,246   165,282    95,735   70,948
 .
 .
Villages and localities
Burned down or destroyed        35       12         20       92
 



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Nov 20 06:02:10 PST 1996
Article: 80574 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.alfred.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!mindspring!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Frank Talks About the Jews, I
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 11:34:16 GMT
Lines: 20

Speech by Frank [Governor of occupied Poland], to German soldiers
in Poland, urging them to write home
[Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression - Washington, U.S Govt. Print. 
Off., 1946, Vol. II, p. 633-634]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In all these weeks, they [i.e., your families] will be thinking
of you, saying to themselves: my God, there he sits in
Poland where there are so many lice and Jews, perhaps he is
hungry and cold, perhaps he is afraid to write.
It would not be a bad idea to send our dear ones back home a
picture, and tell them: well now, there are not so many
lice and Jews any more, and conditions here in the General
Government have changed and improved somewhat already. Of
course, I could not eliminate all lice and Jews in only one
year's time. But in the course of time, and above all, if you
help me, this end will be attained. After all, it is not
necessary for us to accomplish everything within a year and
right away, for what would otherwise be left for those who
follow us to do?



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Nov 20 06:02:11 PST 1996
Article: 80575 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.alfred.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!mindspring!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'That would be more pleasant than to let them starve to death'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 11:38:10 GMT
Lines: 23

Letter from Hoppner, higher SS and Police leader in the Warthegau, to
SS-Obersturmbannfuehrer Eichmann, July 16 1941
[Documents of Destruction - R. Hilberg, Quadrangle Books, Chicago, 1971, 
p. 87]
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Enclosed is a memorandum on the results of various discussions held
locally in the office of the Reich Governor...
 
Subject: Solution of the Jewish question
 .
 .
 
4) This winter there is a danger that not all of the Jews can be fed
   anymore. One might weigh honestly, if the most humane solution
   might not be to finish off those of the Jews who are not employable
   by means of some quick-working device. At any rate, that would be
   more pleasant than to let them starve to death.
5) For the rest, the proposal was made that in this camp all the Jewish
   women, from whom one could still expect children, should be
   sterilized so that the Jewish problem may actually be solved
   completely with this generation.
 



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Nov 20 07:39:32 PST 1996
Article: 90433 of soc.culture.german
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!visi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!cs.utexas.edu!news.tamu.edu!news.utdallas.edu!nrchh45.rich.nt.com!ferret.ocunix.on.ca!resurrect
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Inside the Auschwitz 'Gas Chambers'
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <56bk58$pni@camel0.mindspring.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 17:13:08 GMT
Lines: 57
X-Resurrected-By: dave@ferret.ocunix.on.ca

Reposting article removed by rogue canceller.  See news.admin.net-abuse.announce
for further information.

jimkonen@atl.mindspring.com ("Truth") writes:

[Quoting Fred Leuchter]

# 1988 was a ver informative and likewise disturbing year.

But not as disturbing as when the little piece of dreck
was exposed as a liar and a charlatan, who claimed to be
an "engineer" while only holding a BA in the arts, and
was subsequently taken to court! What a typical "revisionist
scholar"...

# I design and manufacture execution equipment of all
# types, including electrocution systems, lethal injection
# equipment, gallows and gas-chamber hardware.

But, of course, he cannot name one gas chamber in one
US prison he did any work on. He was never present in
nor conducted any execution by gas in any US prison.

# Based upon upon very generous maximum usage rates for
# all the alleged gas chambers, totalling 1,693 persons
# per week, assuming these facilities could support gas
# executions, it would have required sixty-eight(68)
# years to execute the alleged number of six million persons.

I was wondering how Leuchter arrived at this figure of 68 years;
I only found this out after reading his report. He assumes a
ventilation period of a week (!!)  between gassings (while
ventilation in the large gas chambers cleared the air in 15
minutes or so), and also assumes a density of people no more
than 1 per 9 sq. feet in the gas chambers (totally ridiculous,
of course, as many more people were pushed into the gas chambers).

Not to mention that he only considered the gas chambers
in two camps, and forgot that only about a half of the
victims were killed with gas.

A typical "revisionist scholar", indeed.

# This would be impossible if these sites were exposed to
# hydrogen cyanide gas, because the alleged gas chambers
# supposedly were exposed to much greater quantities of gas
# than the delousing facility.

EXACTLY the opposite is true, of course; delousing requires
higher concentrations and much longer exposures than
homicidal gassing (many hours vs. 10-15 minutes). This
can be verified by studying any textbook on these matters.

This is truly old garbage. Even most "revisionists" have
given up on the "Leuchter report". The nazi-boy posting
this must really be out of touch.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Nov 20 07:39:33 PST 1996
Article: 90598 of soc.culture.german
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!news.fdt.net!newsfeed.telalink.net!telalink!news.nashville.org!cpk-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Forgery (Re: What did Benjamin Franklin say about Jews?)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <56mcm4$lr6@camel0.mindspring.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 20:38:46 GMT
Lines: 40

The nazi-boy is at it again...

# [Alleged antisemitic article by Franklin]

This is a notorious forgery; Franklin never said this. I
am reposting from an article by Prof. Jeffrey Shallit.



The quote is a phony.

I suggest you try reading Boller and George's fine book, _They 
Never Said It_. The Franklin quote is a forgery.  I quote from 
page 27:

"The Franklin quote apparently first turned up on February 3, 1934
in William Dudley Pelley's pro-Nazi sheet, _Liberation_, published
in Asheville, North Carolina.  According to Pelley, it was taken
>from  notes made by Charles Cotesworth Pinckney, delegate to the
Constitutional Convention from South Carolina... But there is
no Pinckney diary, and historian Charles Beard, after a thorough
investigation... concluded: "This alleged `Prophecy' ascribed to
Franklin is a crude forgery.. . There is in our historical
records no evidence whatever of any basis for the falsehood."

"On one occasion, when the Hebrew Society of Philadelphia sought
to raise money for a synagogue, Franklin signed the petition
appealing to "citizens of every denomination" for contributions.
Nevertheless, during the 1930s and 1940s, the Franklin forgery
was cited time and again in the Nazi press in Germany, broadcast
over the Nazi radio... It was popular, too, in neo-Nazi circles
in the United States."




-Danny Keren.





From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Nov 20 09:19:08 PST 1996
Article: 80598 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.idt.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Hitler Talks About the Jews, II
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 11:26:48 GMT
Lines: 10

Adolph Hitler speaking to a crowd at the Sports Palace in Berlin,
30 January 1942. Quoted in "The Holocaust", by Martin Gilbert,
Holt, Rinehart and Winston, NY, 1985, p. 285. Text as monitored by the 
Foreign Broadcast Monitoring Service, Federal Communications Commission.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
And we say that the war will not end as the Jews imagine it
will, namely with the uprooting of the Aryans, but the result of
this war will be the complete annihilation of the Jews.
 



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Nov 20 09:19:10 PST 1996
Article: 80599 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.idt.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Hitler Talks About the Jews, III
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 11:27:45 GMT
Lines: 25

Excerpts from the meeting between Hitler and the Mufti,
Haj Amin Husseini, on 28 November 1941. The notes were taken by
Dr. Paul Otto Schmidt and are quoted in Fleming's "Hitler and the
Final Solution", p. 101-104. Also geheime Reichssache 57 a/41, Records 
Dept. Foreign and  Commonwealth Office Pa/2.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
The Fuehrer then made the following declaration, requesting
the Mufti to lock it deep in his heart:
 
1) He (the Fuehrer) would carry on the fight until the last
   traces of the Jewish-Communist European hegemony had been
   obliterated.
 
2) In the course of this fight, the German army would - at a
   time that could not yet be specified, but in any case in
   the clearly foreseeable future - gain the southern exit of
   Caucasus.
 
3) As soon as this breakthrough was made, the Fuehrer would
   offer the Arab world his personal assurance that the hour
   of liberation had struck. Thereafter, Germany's only
   remaining objective in the region would be limited to the
   annihilation of the Jews living under British protection
   in Arab lands.
  


From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Nov 20 09:19:10 PST 1996
Article: 80600 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Goebbels Talks About the Jews, II
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 11:33:11 GMT
Lines: 13

The Goebbels [Reich propaganda Minister] Diaries, February 14 1942
[The Goebbels Diaries 1942-1943 - L.P. Lochner, Doubleday & Co., 1948, 
p. 86]
----------------------------------------------------------------
World Jewry will suffer a great catastrophe at the same time as
Bolshevism. The Fuehrer once more expressed his determination to
clean up the Jews in Europe pitilessly. There must be no squeamish
sentimentalism about it. The Jews have deserved the catastrophe that
has now overtaken them. Their destruction will now go hand in hand
with the destruction of our enemies. We must hasten this process
with cold ruthlessness.
 



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Nov 20 09:19:11 PST 1996
Article: 80601 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!mr.net!news.idt.net!feed1.news.erols.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Himmler Talks About the Jews, I
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 11:29:07 GMT
Lines: 31

Speechs by Reichsfuehrer-SS Himmler before senior SS officers in Poznan, 
October 4 and 6, 1943
[Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military Tribunals - 
Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1949-1953, Vol. XIII, p. 323, and 
Himmler, Reichsfuehrer-SS - P. Padfield, Henry Holt and Co, NY, 1990, 
p. 469]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I mean the evacuation of the Jews, the extermination of the Jewish
race. It's one of those things it is easy to talk about, "the Jewish
race is being exterminated", says one party member, "that's quite
clear, it's in our program, elimination of the Jews, and we're doing
it, exterminating them". And then they come, 80 million worthy
Germans, and each one has his decent Jew. Of course the others are
vermin, but this one is an A-1 Jew. Not one of those who talk this way
has watched it, not one of them has gone through it. Most of you know
what it means when 100 corpses are lying side by side, or 500, or
1,000.  To have stuck it out and at the same time - apart from
exceptions caused by human weakness - to have remained decent fellows,
that is what has made us hard.  This is a page of glory in our history
which has never been written and is never to be written.
 
I ask of you that what I say in this circle you really only hear and
never speak of. We come to the question: how is it with the women and
the children? I have resolved even here on a completely clear
solution. That is to say I do not consider myself justified in
eradicating the men - so to speak killing or ordering them killed -
and allowing the avengers in the shape of the children to grow up for
our sons and grandsons. The difficult decision has to be taken, to
cause this Volk [people] to disappear from the earth.
 



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Nov 20 09:19:12 PST 1996
Article: 80606 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Wetzel Writes Lohse About the 'Gassing Apparatuses'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 11:41:59 GMT
Lines: 47

(See 

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/w/wetzel.erhard/images/
wetzel-lohse-01.jpg
 
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/w/wetzel.erhard/images/
wetzel-lohse-02.jpg

for a photograph of this letter).

Letter from Dr. Erhard Wetzel to Reichskommissar Lohse, October 25, 1941
[Hitler and the Final Solution - G. Fleming, University of California
Press, 1984, p. 70]
------------------------------------------------------------------------
With regard to my letter of 18 October 1941, please be informed that
Oberdiensleiter [Chief Executive Officer] Brack from the Fuehrer's
Chancellory has stated his readiness to assist in the construction of
the necessary accommodations and gassing apparatuses, so they must
first be constructed. Brack's view is that, since construction of the
apparatuses within the Reich would present far greater difficulties
than on-site production, the most expedient course of action is to
send his people directly to Riga, in particular his chemist Dr.
Kallmeyer, who will take the necessary steps from there.
Oberdiensleiter Brack further points out that the procedure in
question is not without its hazards, and that therefore special safety
precautions are needed. Under these circumstances, I ask you to
contact Oberdiensleiter Brack in the Fuehrer's Chancellory through
your higher SS and Police leader. Please request from him the
dispatching of the chemist Dr. Kallmeyer and any further assistants
that are needed. I might further point out that Sturmbannfuehrer
Eichmann, the adviser on Jewish affairs in the Reich main security
office, is in complete accord with this procedure. According to the
information received here from Sturmbannfuehrer Eichmann, camps for
Jews will be set up in Riga and Minsk, where Jews from the Altreich
[Germany proper] might also be sent. Jews are currently being
evacuated from the Altreich to Lodz and other camps, from which those
fit for work will be transferred to work forces in the east. Given the
present situation, Jews who are not fit for work can be eliminated
without qualms through use of the Brack device. Incidents such as
those that took place during the shootings of Jews in Vilna, according
to a report I have on my desk, can hardly be sanctioned, keeping in
mind that the executions were undertaken openly, and the new
procedures assure that such incidents will no longer be possible. Jews
fit for work, on the other hand, will be transported to work forces in
the east. That the men and women in this latter group must be kept
apart from each other goes without saying. Please keep me informed as
to any further measures you take.


From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Nov 25 06:23:12 PST 1996
Article: 80639 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: agressive
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <3291860a.40274744@news.gte.net>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 17:35:21 GMT
Lines: 59

        Giwer wants to kill people who disagree 
            with him about historical facts
        ---------------------------------------

Since my opinion about the attack on the USS Liberty,
in the midst of the 1967 Arab-Israeli War, differs from 
his (I believe the attack was an accident), Matt Giwer
says I deserve to die, and he adds an explicit threat to 
kill me himself.

Score one for "revisionist support for freedom of speech".

Needless to say, no "revisionist" has denounced Giwer
for all of this.


 From mgiwer@ix.netcom.com Tue Sep 17 09:07:00 EDT 1996
 Article: 121220 of alt.revisionism

[Giwer writes to me]

# Were you at my back in combat I would turn and kill you
# first as you can not be trusted to have loyalties to the
# US above all others.  

 From mgiwer@ix.netcom.com Sat Sep 21 17:58:06 EDT 1996
 Article: 122260 of alt.revisionism

# Keren of course is an apologist liar for murdering jews and 
# a traitor because his loyalties are to Israel rather than to
# the US.
#
# The curse is upon him.
#
# He and everyone like him has been formally reported to the US
# Gov and they have no mroe chance of getting or retaining a
# security clearance than Pollard and for the same reason, they
# are no loyal Americans.
#
# They have all supported Isreali murders of Americans.
#
# Their fate should be death but the curse is now upon them.  

 From mgiwer@ix.netcom.com Sat Sep 21 18:10:17 EDT 1996
 Article: 122347 of alt.revisionism

[Giwer writes to me]

# May napalm burn you skin.  May cannon fire tear your
# apart.  May you know death from drowning.

# And may you live to suffer all again and again until the 
# end of time and from then into eternity.  




-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Nov 25 06:23:13 PST 1996
Article: 80785 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!mindspring!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Treblinka
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <56rdj4$jo8@Vir.com>  <570h75$lea@Vir.com>
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 06:22:39 GMT
Lines: 32

Jean-Francois Beaulieu  writes:

# I'd say that 45 meters of depth is
# really a generous estimation.

I'd say that, like the other "revisionists" here (Moran,
Giwer, etc), you simply cannot handle third-grade
arithmetic.

Assume an average weight of 40 Kg per corpse (this may
well be an overestimate, accounting for the infants and
children among the victims). This gives

800,000*40 Kg = 32,000 tons.

Assuming the density to be about as that of water
(and I understand the density of humans to be rather
close to that of water), the 32,000 tons translate
to 32,000 cubic meters.

Over the area you gave - 5,000 sq. meters - this results
in an average depth of 32,000/5,000 = 6.4 meters.

I would add some for uneven packing etc, so make it
7-8 meters or so.

Your figure is absurd; you cannot handle basic arithmetic.
But have no fear - you can still be a "leading revisionist".


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Nov 25 06:23:14 PST 1996
Article: 80806 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!peerfeed.internetmci.com!msfc!news.msfc.nasa.gov!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Goebbels Talks About the Jews, I
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <56tpe7$lko@juliana.sprynet.com> <570qvp$qo6@access5.digex.net>
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 06:28:41 GMT
Lines: 26

 wrote:

# Whether these statements are accurate or not is hardly
# germane to the so-called Holocaust, as Goebbels had no
# authority to issue orders to either the SS or the Gestapo.

This is stupid beyond words. This person is just
unbelievable.

Goebbels was a very senior Nazi official. He knew what
was going on. The entry in his diary does not state
that he gave the orders; it states that "on the whole it
can be said that about 60 per cent of them [the Jews] will
have to be liquidated whereas only 40 per cent can be used
for forced labor".

Now, why do you think he wrote this?

Or maybe you're claiming you know more than Goebbels
about the policies of the Third Reich?

Have you gone totally and completely mad?


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Nov 25 06:23:14 PST 1996
Article: 80810 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Chief French Rabbi on War & Christians
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32939b7b.1055164@news.zippo.com>
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 07:12:27 GMT
Lines: 27

ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter) writes:

# "Wars are the Jews harvest, for with them we wipe out the
# Christians and get control of their gold. We have already
# killed 100 million of them, and the end is not yet."
#
# (Chief Rabbi in France, in 1859, Rabbi Reichorn).

Gee whiz. I suppose you have a source? When did he say it?
Where did he say it? Any evidence whatsoever he said it?

Isn't it amazing how these nazi-boys reject all evidence
proving Nazi atrocities, including the Nazis' own words
in their testimonies, documents, recordings etc, but will
accept the above as "evidence"?

I repeat my question: can you present any proof whatsoever
that this Rabbi (if he existed), said what you allege he said?

We have seen forgeries like this before (the Franklin
forgery, for instance).

The ball is in your court, nazi-boy.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Nov 25 06:23:15 PST 1996
Article: 80814 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars...
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <19961120043800.XAA09140@ladder01.news.aol.com> <19961120055600.AAA10637@ladder01.news.aol.com>  <32939f1c.76891374@news.gte.net>
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 06:48:02 GMT
Lines: 26

gruppenfueher@jerusalem.verycom (BB) (senile, unemployed
drunkard hiding behind an alias), writes:

# Why would one wish to read a description of what happened
# in a building that had no room that could have served as
# a gas chamber?

So tell us, Matt, how come there are still cyanide compounds
on its walls, as even the "revisionists" agree?

BTW  Matt, did you mail my ISP regarding my articles
on alt.revisionism?


-Danny Keren.

 ---
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.

It's no big wonder Giwer can't find a job. Would you hire
someone who writes something like this?




From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Nov 25 06:23:16 PST 1996
Article: 80904 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Mass Murder in Belsen Camp, II
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 22:22:33 GMT
Lines: 33

The following photos are in

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/bergen-belsen/images

They are all scanned from "The Belsen Trial" - Edited by R. Phillips,
William Hodge and Company, 1949.  

belsen01.jpg: A Mass grave in Belsen camp.
belsen02.jpg: A bulldozer being used to bury corpses in Belsen.
belsen03.jpg: Emaciated corpses in Belsen.
belsen04.jpg: Plump, overweight SS-women bury skeletal corpses in Belsen.
belsen05.jpg: The corpse of a child is thrown into a mass grave in Belsen.
         
The following photos, of some of the SS staff in Belsen (and before
that, in Auschwitz-Birkenau) are in:
       
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bormann.juana/images/

Bormann.jpg: Juana Bormann, murderous SS-woman (served in Auschwitz 
             and Belsen). 

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/h/hoessler.franz/images/

Hoessler.jpg: SS-officer Franz Hoessler in front of a truckload of
              corpses in Belsen.

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/k/kramer.joseph/images/

Kramer.jpg:   Joseph Kramer, who served as commandant of Auschwitz
              II (Birkenau) and later Belsen.                       


-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Nov 25 06:23:17 PST 1996
Article: 80915 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Suchomel and Shoah
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <565v2j$ohh@Vir.com> <329161d3.31003240@news.gte.net> <329242c3.63542591@news.txdirect.net> <3293d597.238722378@news.micron.net>
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 14:18:05 GMT
Lines: 33

kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt Stele) writes:

# Matzeltoff wants to "move on" (ahem!) now that Suchomel's 
# "interview" is revealed to be another hoax.

Ah, yes - "it's not the real Suchomel"? And it's not the
real Hitler, and not the real Goebbels, and not the real Himmler...

You people are simply crazy. Insane.

Can you give us one argument to convince it's not the
real Suchomel?

In the Treblinka trial, was it also not the real Suchomel?

You're a mad, mad, mad Nazi.


-Danny Keren.

 ----
For a summary of the "revisionist" position, look at what
Nazi propagandist and "revisionist", Kurt Stele, wrote:

 From:         kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele)
 Message-Id:   <4ut4ht$p8i@newsbf02.news.aol.com>

# The Holocaust is a funny thing..
# When you hear about it, you wish it never happened..
# When you discover it's a hoax ya kind of wish it did!
# Kurt Stele




From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Nov 25 06:23:17 PST 1996
Article: 80983 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!peerfeed.internetmci.com!panix!feed1.news.erols.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: 'The Jews from two of these transports were gassed'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <56tjm2$lko@juliana.sprynet.com>  <32946267.126679734@news.gte.net>
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 21:10:09 GMT
Lines: 12

chief@rabbi.com (Nizkor's handler) (senile Nazi coward)
writes:

# Have you no shame?

The ones who have no shame are miserable people like
you, who admire the Nazis, murderers of countless
innocent victims, including American POW's.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Nov 25 06:23:18 PST 1996
Article: 80987 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!peerfeed.internetmci.com!EU.net!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Frank Talks About the Jews, II
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <56tp9a$lko@juliana.sprynet.com>  <32947dcf.133695084@news.gte.net>
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 22:00:09 GMT
Lines: 39

chief@rabbi.com (Nizkor's handler) writes:

[About the speech of Hans Frank, Governor of Nazi-
occupied Poland]

# Perhaps he was referring to the cooperation of the Nazis
# and the Jewish Zionists to move them all to Palestine.

Perhaps you should lay off the cheap wine. Look at what
Frank said:

 "In Berlin we were told: why are you making all this
trouble? We don't want them either, not in Ostland nor
in the Reichskommissariat; liquidate them yourselves!"

Palestine is not mentioned; liquidation is mentioned.

 "We must destroy the Jews wherever we find them, and
wherever it is at all possible".

This does not sound like "moving the Jews to Palestine".

Well, maybe it does, after a few dozens of bottles of
that cheap wine?

And a few extra bottles will produce the words of wisdom
quoted below. Read carefully, boys and girls. This may well
be the "revisionist quote" of the century.


-Danny Keren.

 ---
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.




From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Nov 25 06:23:19 PST 1996
Article: 80988 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!peerfeed.internetmci.com!dciteleport.com!feed1.news.erols.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Nazi Mass Murder of Insane and Mentally Retarded Russians
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 22:06:12 GMT
Lines: 15

Extract from the Diary of General Halder, September-November 1941
[Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military Tribunals - 
Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1949-1953, Vol. X, p. 1195-1196]
-----------------------------------------------------------------
26 September 1941:
 .
 .
h. Mental institutions in Army Group North. Russians regards the
   feebleminded as sacred beings. Killing them is necessary,
   nontheless.




-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Nov 25 06:23:19 PST 1996
Article: 81011 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!EU.net!howland.erols.net!newspump.sol.net!news.mindspring.com!mindspring!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Photographs from THEKLA Camp
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 07:13:39 GMT
Lines: 8

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/thekla/images

Thekla1.jpg, Thekla2.jpg, Thekla3.jpg:

The Thekla atrocity: inmates burned alive by the Nazis.


-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Nov 25 06:23:20 PST 1996
Article: 81019 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!visi.com!mr.net!news.sgi.com!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Nazi Mass Murder of Insane and Mentally Retarded Germans, I
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 21:01:03 GMT
Lines: 27

Letter from chief of institution for feeble-minded in Stetten to
Reich Minister of justice Dr. Frank, September 6 1940
[Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military Tribunals - 
Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1949-1953, Vol. I, p. 854]
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Reich Minister,

The measure being taken at present with mental patients of all
kinds have caused a complete lack of confidence in justice among
large groups of people. Without the consent of relatives and
guardians, such patients are being transferred to different
institutions. After a short time they are notified that the
person concerned has died of some disease...

If the state really wants to carry out the extermination of these
or at least of some mental patients, shouldn't a law be
promulgated, which can be justified before the people - a law
that would give everyone the assurance od careful examination
as to whether he is due to die or entitled to live and which
would also give the relatives a chance to be heard, in a
similar way, as provided by the law for the prevention of
Hereditarily affected Progeny?




-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Nov 25 06:23:21 PST 1996
Article: 81060 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!peerfeed.internetmci.com!EU.net!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Photographs from BUCHENWALD Camp
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 07:12:44 GMT
Lines: 18

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/buchenwald/images

buchenwald01.jpg, buchenwald03.jpg:
Emaciated corpses of the inmates.

buchenwald02.jpg:
Artifacts made from corpses of inmates.

shrunken.jpg: 
The shrunken head of an inmate.

buchenwald04.jpg: 
German civilians living near the camp, after the American troops 
have taken them to Buchenwald to witness the horrors. Notice how 
well-dressed and well-fed they are.


-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Nov 25 06:23:22 PST 1996
Article: 81065 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!peerfeed.internetmci.com!dciteleport.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!feed1.news.erols.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: 'Afterwards it would once again be used for gassing'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:   <32946348.126904047@news.gte.net> <5739hu$13di$2@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 10:51:52 GMT
Lines: 18

gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:
# chief@rabbi.com writes:

## What else would a goy shill for a synagogue say?  

# Dr. Keren will be pleased to learn he is now goy.

I'll try anything once!

 :-)

# What a stupid, pathetic, drunken ass the Giwer-sot is.

But he has an IQ of 163. He told us so.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Nov 25 06:23:22 PST 1996
Article: 81080 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!mr.net!news.idt.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: 'The gas chambers were closed for about thirty minutes'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <56tj3q$fvh@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:32:26 GMT
Lines: 45

rblackmore@juno.com writes:

##  dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
## Testimony of SS Oberscharfuehrer Heinrich Matthes about Treblinka

[...]

# So Mr. Keren's latest ploy is to convict the Germans with
# their own "testimony" 

Mr. "blackmore's" latest ploy is to claim that each and every
person who was in the death camps is lying, and that he - who
was never in them - knows the truth.

He's a really desperate Nazi apologist.

# which is as incredible as all the other eyewitness "testimony" 
# I have examined over the past few months.

Nothing is "incredible" about them.

# The "survivors" had an ax to grind, and the Germans were often
# tortured, threatened, plea bargained with, and intimidated into
# giving damning testimony, 

Absolute garbage. These are testimonies given in German courts.

If you have any proof whatsoever that the SS-men were " tortured, 
threatened" etc, present it.

We already know you're a liar - you claimed Goeth was executed
by the SS for killing Jews, while he was tried and executed by
the Poles, after the war.

# which, after it is examined critically, turns out to be
# unsupportable.

Why does it "turn out to be unsupportable", if it is supported by
the testimonies of everyone who was there, documents, and
physical remains?


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Nov 25 06:23:23 PST 1996
Article: 81090 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.bctel.net!news.axionet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: 'The Jews from two of these transports were gassed'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <56tjm2$lko@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:37:08 GMT
Lines: 23

rblackmore@juno.com writes:

# This is an obvious fake, as there is a reference to the Wannsee
# Conference, which had nothing to do with exterminating human
# beings.  

How odd. Even "leading revisionist" Matt Giwer agrees that the
decision stated in the Wannsee Protocols is to murder all the
Jews "fit for work". What do you think they planned to do with
the rest?

But what can one expect from a cheap liar like you? Want to
tell us again how Goeth was "executed by the SS for killing
Jews", while he was in fact tried and executed by the Poles
after the war?

He was executed twice?

You're a cheap, lying Nazi apologist.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Nov 25 06:23:24 PST 1996
Article: 81091 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.bctel.net!news.axionet.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: 'The tins were filled to the brim with blue granules'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <56tkn7$lko@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:44:22 GMT
Lines: 21

rblackmore@juno.com writes:

## dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
## 
##  Testimony of SS-Unterscharfuehrer Pery Broad, describing 
## gassing in Krema I in Auschwitz

# Pery Broad is not the best of witnesses.  As is customary in
# cases of this type, he initially denied that people were ever
# gassed at Auschwitz, then changed and said that people
# were gassed but he didn't have anything to do with it.  

When and where did he deny the gassings?

I assume you're lying through your teeth, just like you
lied about Goeth. Go ahead and surprise me.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Nov 25 06:23:24 PST 1996
Article: 81092 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.mindspring.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: 'Afterwards it would once again be used for gassing'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <56t9u8$9t6@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:13:21 GMT
Lines: 18

rblackmore@juno.com writes:

##   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
##  Testimony of gas-van driver Walter Burmeister

[...]

# If you don't mind my asking, what sort of sentence did this man
# receive after the war?

I don't know. Most of the Treblinka and Auschwitz SS-staff who
were tried by the Germans got 5-10 years, although some got
life. It should not be too difficult to find out what Burmeister
got.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Nov 25 06:23:25 PST 1996
Article: 81136 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!solace!demos!news.stealth.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.mindspring.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: 'They were then pushed into the chamber'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <56tm21$lko@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:54:48 GMT
Lines: 18

rblackmore@juno.com writes:

## dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
## SS-Hauptsturmfuehrer Johann Schwarzhuber testifies about gassing
## in the Ravensbrueck concentration camp

[...]

# Of course this description disagrees with other statements which
# state that the gas was always brought up in a Red Cross ambulance
# and that SS men threw the pellets down, not the prisoners.

Sigh. You're talking about Auschwitz. This is Ravensbrueck. Learn
to read, for God's sake.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Nov 25 06:23:26 PST 1996
Article: 81163 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!solace!demos!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: 'After the gassing, the door were opened and the corpses removed'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <56t9rr$9t6@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:15:44 GMT
Lines: 19

rblackmore@juno.com writes:

##  Testimony of SS-Oberscharfuehrer Kurt Bolender, In the 
##  Belzec-Oberhauser trial:

[...]

# And who made this statement, 

SS-Oberscharfuehrer Kurt Bolender. That was really hard to figure
out, right?

# and when?

During the Belzec-Oberhauser trial; 1966 as I recall.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Nov 25 06:23:27 PST 1996
Article: 81223 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!pumpkin.pangea.ca!news.maxwell.syr.edu!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.mindspring.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: 'there was no longer any escape'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <56tler$lko@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:51:24 GMT
Lines: 33

rblackmore@juno.com writes:

## dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
## Testimony of Hans-Heintz Schutt, SS-officer at Sobibor

[...]

# And where is this witness today?

When desperate, "rblackmore" always returns with "where is this
witness today"?

I don't know. He's either dead, or rather old, I assume.

Why don't you try to find out? It should be rather easy. If
you're so interested, do the necessary research, instead of
flooding this newsgroup with your lies.

# Also, in order to compare statements, let us compare a statement
# by SS Mann Kurt Franz, who was at Treblinka:
 
[...]
 
# After all that I have read and posted on this newsgroup,
# I believe him.

Very good. You believe him. He also said, of course, that mass
gassing of Jews took place in Treblinka. It's good to know that
you believe him.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Nov 25 06:23:27 PST 1996
Article: 81228 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!pumpkin.pangea.ca!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Nazi Murder of American POW's
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 07:00:29 GMT
Lines: 33

Quoted from Evelyn Le Chene's "Mauthausen", p. 127:

 "In April 1945, nine American airmen were shot down. Four of
them were brought to the camp in a large staff car. They were
also made to stand against the wall and were interrogated by
about fifteen SS-men. One fell dead at their feet; the other
three were shot at the entrance to the crematorium".

 "The crews baled out and some were shot while descending.
Thirty-six airmen were brought to Mauthausen and interrogated
in the bunker. Later, all were taken away by Wehrmacht 
officers. Five bodies of this group were brought back to
Mauthausen for cremation. Nothing is known of what happened
to the remaining thirty-one".

BTW, as I recall, General Chuck Yeager writes in his 
autobiography that the German pilots would shoot American
pilots who were parachuting after their planes were shot
down (General Yeager was a fighter pilot during WW2 and later
became a test pilot and the first man to break the sound
barrier).

Makes you wonder why the American "revisionists" here -
including the unemployed drunkard, who makes himself to be
a great American patriot - have this crush on the Nazis?

They are Nazi patriots, not American patriots. A truly ugly
bunch of sick, perverted, Nazi patriots.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Nov 25 06:23:28 PST 1996
Article: 81229 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!pumpkin.pangea.ca!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Jabotinsky to force Congress
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32939b5e.1025889@news.zippo.com>
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 07:21:01 GMT
Lines: 16

ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter) writes:

# "...Jabotinsky insisted that all energies be expended to
# force the Congress to join the  boycott movement.

You suppose it could have had something to do with the
fact that Germany was ruled by someone who wrote, a few
years earlier, that Jews are vermin, etc, and expressed
his desire to see Jews killed by poison gas?

Suppose country X was ruled by someone who said such
things about Americans. How would America react?


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Nov 25 06:23:29 PST 1996
Article: 81230 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!news.fdt.net!news.pcslink.com!metro.atlanta.com!cpk-news-feed3.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.idt.net!feed1.news.erols.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Nazi Mass Murder of Insane and Mentally Retarded Germans, II
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 21:01:39 GMT
Lines: 23

Letter from Dr. Wurm, of the Wuerttemberg Evangelical Provincial Church,
to Reich Minister of interior Dr. Frick, September 5 1940
[Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression - Washington, U.S Govt. Print. 
Off., 1946, Supp. A, p. 1223]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Reich Minister,

On July 19th I sent you a letter about the systematic extermination
of lunatics, feeble-minded and epileptic persons. Since then this
practice has reached tremendous proportions: recently the inmates of
old-age homes have also been included. The basis for this practice
seems to be that in an efficient nation there should be no room
for weak and frail people. It is evident from the many reports which
we are receiving that the people's feelings are being badly hurt
by the measures ordered and that the feeling of legal insecurity
is spreading which is regrettable from the point of view of national
and state interest.




-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Nov 25 06:23:30 PST 1996
Article: 81239 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.activism,alt.atheism,alt.current.events-russia
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: agressive
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <3291860a.40274744@news.gte.net> <32942a09.112249508@news.gte.net> <571na0$kj7@decaxp.harvard.edu> <329656bb.55374561@news.gte.net>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 13:40:22 GMT
Lines: 46
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:81239 alt.activism:98446 alt.atheism:67113

[Followup = alt.revisionism]

chief@rabbi.com (Nizkor's handler) [a lying Nazi coward
afraid to post under his own name] writes:

# For openers, consider that you are required to believe that
# nearly twice the population of the city of New York vanished
# without a trace.

"without a trace"?

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/bergen-belsen/images
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/buchenwald/images
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/dachau/images
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/natzweiler/images
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/nordhausen/images
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/ohrdruf/images
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/thekla/images
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/maidanek/images

# Not bodies,

Then what are we seeing in the photos in these web pages?

# not ashes,

Huge amounts of ashes in some camps, such as Treblinka and
Maidanek.

# What does the complete and total lack of physical evidence
# for this holocaust have to do with any of that?

"complete and total lack of..."

We have not only the above, but also numerous documents, gas
chambers with cyanide traces on their walls, and photographs.

That is, we have far more physical evidence for the Holocaust
than for, say, Stalin's atrocities.

Why don't you deny Stalin's atrocities, then?

Well, we know the answer for that one.


-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Nov 25 06:23:30 PST 1996
Article: 81243 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Treblinka
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <575q09$gtk@Vir.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 14:05:38 GMT
Lines: 36

Jean-Francois Beaulieu  writes:

# Can anyone explain to this 'Phd' in mathematic

Computer science, actually, although my work could also
be classified as applied mathematics (and some, I
would like to think, as pure mathematics).

# the notion of empty space between solids?

That's easy. Just look between the bones which make up the
skull of any "revisionist scholar". Lots and lots of empty
space there.

# Can anyone explain him that in a cube of 2 meter by 2 meter
# by 2 meter we can put 8,000 kg of water but not 100 people
# of 80 kg? Can anyone?

Which is why I added a factor to account for the uneven
packing.

Your estimate gave a depth for the graves of 45 meters.
This translates to a factor of about 8, which is obviously
insane; you have actually claimed that only 1/8 of the
mass grave would be occupied by the corpses, and 7/8
will be empty space (!!).

You CANNOT handle basic arithmetic. Live with it.

I bet that you're a highschool dropout, like "leading
revisionists" David Cole and Al Baron, or an "engineer"
in the sense of Fred Leuchter.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Nov 25 06:23:31 PST 1996
Article: 81271 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!newsfeed.luth.se!news.luth.se!newsfeed.sunet.se!news01.sunet.se!sunic!surfnet.nl!howland.erols.net!newspump.sol.net!news.mindspring.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: 'One cannot protest when in the army'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <56th8u$fvh@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:23:17 GMT
Lines: 27

rblackmore@juno.com writes:

##  dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
##  Testimony of SS-Obersturmfuehrer Dr. Fritz Klein

[...]

# More nonsense from Mr. Keren as well  as from Klein.  

But of course. Everyone who was in the camps - EVERYONE - is
talking nonsense, and only our crazed "revisionists", who were
never in them, know the truth? 

I mean, is this a joke or what?

Everyone who was there is lying, and only you clowns know the 
truth?

# Now, as to the fate of Dr. Wirtz-perhaps
# Mr. Keren would care to enlighten us-or perhaps not?

He was hanged by the Poles. 


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Nov 25 06:23:32 PST 1996
Article: 81272 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!newsfeed.luth.se!news.luth.se!newsfeed.sunet.se!news01.sunet.se!sunic!surfnet.nl!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: 'Sometimes entire transports were gassed'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <56tibi$fvh@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:25:26 GMT
Lines: 19

rblackmore@juno.com writes:

## dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
## Testimony of SS-Hauptsturmfuehrer Hofmann, about his days
## at Auschwitz:

[...]

# And what happened to Mr. Hofmann?  

Sentenced by the German court to life in prison.

# Did he admit participating in the gassing of people? 
 
Yes. 


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Nov 25 06:23:32 PST 1996
Article: 81310 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!pumpkin.pangea.ca!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Nazi Mass Murder in the Ukraine
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 20:59:20 GMT
Lines: 64

This is a partial translation of the document that Dr. Ulrich 
Roessler posted some time ago. Like many other documents, it 
reports mass murder of civilians by the Nazi occupation forces 
in the USSR.

Note that the document states that Jews, on the whole, didn't pose
any danger to the German Army. Moreover, it looks as if the person 
who wrote it was not happy with the massacre of men, women, and 
children, and implicitly tried to protest it.

Letter from Inspector of Armaments in the Ukraine to General of
Infantry, Thomas, December 2 1941
[Quoted in "Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression", Vol V, pages 994-997]
----------------------------------------------------------------
The attitude of the Jewish population was anxious - obliging from
the beginning. They tried to avoid everything that might displease
the German administration. That they hated the German administration
and the army inwardly goes without saying and cannot be surprising.
However, there is no proof that Jewry as a whole or even to a
greater part was implicated in acts of sabotage. Surely, there 
were some terrorists or saboteurs among them just as among the
Ukrainians. But it cannot be said that the Jews as such represented
a danger to the German armed forces. The output produced by the
Jews who, of course, were prompted by nothing but the feeling of 
fear, was satisfactory to the troops and the German administration.

 .
 .
 .

The way these actions which included men and old men, women and
children of all ages were carried out was horrible. The great masses
executed make this action more gigantic than any similar measure
taken so far in the Soviet Union. So far about 150,000 to
200,000 Jews may have been executed in the part of the Ukraine 
belonging to the Reichskommissariat [RK]; no consideration was given 
to the interests of economy.

Summarizing it can be said that the kind of solution of the Jewish
problem applied in the Ukraine which obviously was based on the
ideological theories as a matter of principle had the following
results:

a. Elimination of a part of partly superfluous eaters in the cities.

b. Elimination of a part of the population which hated us
   undoubtedly.

c. Elimination of badly needed tradesmen who were in many instances
   indispensable even in the interests of the armed forces.

d. Consequences as to foreign policy - propaganda which are obvious.

e. Bad effects on the troops which in any case get indirect contact
   with the executions.

f. Brutalizing effect on the formations which carry out the 
   executions-regular police-(Ordnungspolizei).




-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Nov 25 06:23:33 PST 1996
Article: 81311 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Photographs from THEKLA Camp
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <574tur$7n8@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 13:01:45 GMT
Lines: 36

rblackmore@juno.com writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:

[web page with photos of inmates burned alive by the
Nazis in Thekla camp]

# Why don't you post the photos of mothers and
# infants burned alive at Dresden by the allies,

I actually posted such a photo; it's in Nizkor's
web site. BTW, another reason for which I post the
Thekla photos is because of the lie put forward by
the senile "revisionist scholar", Faurisson, that
the Nazis never burned people alive.

# BTW, perhaps you will advise us who the inmatews
# at Thekla were and why they were arrested.

You're suggesting they *deserved* to be burned alive?

These people are just incredible. I am sure Hoess would
have loved to have these "revisionist scholars" working
for him.

# Also, the crime of killing the inmates at Thekla was
# committed on the initiative of ONE man

It's always "one man", right?

# who was later punished for his crime.

By who?


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Nov 25 06:23:34 PST 1996
Article: 81335 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Attack on alt.revisionism
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <5739qj$13di$15@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 10:36:35 GMT
Lines: 26

gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:

# Giwer does not understand that he does not tell me,
# or anyone else what to do. 

It's this crazy frustration which is driving poor Giwer 
up the wall. The man actually claims to be a genius; he 
obviously thinks he is one. Yet he can't find a bleeding
job; he's been unemployed since he was 46-years-old (5
years ago), a fact which he never forgets to mention, for
some reason (as if it is a great achievement).

I used to play chess. Giwer reminds me of these crazies who 
cannot play a decent game, yet are absolutely convinced
that they can beat the world champion, if given a chance
(and, of course, there's always this big conspiracy against
them, ya know).

Or like those folks who hardly know high-school math, and
claim they solved some famous open mathematical problem. 
And, of course, there's always this big conspiracy against
them... 


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Nov 25 06:23:35 PST 1996
Article: 81353 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!out2.nntp.cais.net!in1.nntp.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: agressive
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <574qe4$6i1@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 12:30:09 GMT
Lines: 27

rblackmore@juno.com writes:

# Listen to poor Danny Keren, who whines and cries like a
# whimpering infant when people get pissed off at his
# continuous insults.

No, no, nazi-boy. You have, again, failed to see the point.

First, I am not "whining and crying". I brought up Giwer's
death threats against me, since he made them only
because my opinion on a certain historical event is
different from his.

This is especially fascinating because Giwer, like other
"revisionists", claims to support freedom of speech...

# You deserve all the sympathy of a rattlesnake poised and
# ready to strike,

You deserve less sympathy than every member of the SS.
He, at least, had the excuse: "I was brought up in a
society which made me like this". You don't have such an
excuse.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Nov 25 06:23:36 PST 1996
Article: 81354 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Jabotinsky to force Congress
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32939b5e.1025889@news.zippo.com>  <3295c636.3302091@news.zippo.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 12:42:50 GMT
Lines: 22

ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter), a lying Nazi
who posts "quotes" for which he has no source, writes:

# Did Hitler throw the first punch when he said Jews
# were vermin?

He wrote his book in 1925. In that book, he also expressed
his desire to see Jews killed with poison gas.

# I think it started before that.

You "think"? Wow. Hey, boys and girls, look! He "thinks
it started before that".

# I'd like to know_ when_ the Jew/German animus
# started and_ why.

Why? Ask Hitler when you meet him.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Nov 25 06:23:36 PST 1996
Article: 81355 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!tor.istar!east.istar!news.inforamp.net!winternet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Forgery (Re: Chief French Rabbi on War & Christians)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32939b7b.1055164@news.zippo.com>  <3295c749.3576441@news.zippo.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 12:38:49 GMT
Lines: 46

ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter) writes:

["quote" of "French Rabbi"]

# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

## Gee whiz. I suppose you have a source?

# Yes.

What is it?

## When did he say it?

# 1859

Proof, Nazi scumbag. Where is the proof?

## Where did he say it?

# France

Proof, Nazi scumbag. Where is the proof?

## Any evidence whatsoever he said it?

# Yes

Proof, Nazi scumbag. Where is the proof?

Am I getting through? Where is the proof? Where is this
"quote" recorded? You have to give us some kind of source.
The allegation by you, or some other Nazi scumbag, that
he said it, is not enough.

# I gave you names, dates, and places.

You're joking, right?

I repeat: do you have any evidence whatsoever that he
said this? I don't have to prove he didn't say it. You
have to prove he did say it. You're making the claim.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Nov 25 06:23:37 PST 1996
Article: 81456 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!pumpkin.pangea.ca!eru.mt.luth.se!newsfeed.luth.se!news.luth.se!newsfeed.sunet.se!news00.sunet.se!sunic!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Nazi Mass Murder of Insane and Mentally Retarded Germans, IV
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 22:05:16 GMT
Lines: 44

Letter from Dr. Hilfrich, Bishop of Limburg, to the Reich Minister of
Justice, August 13 1941 
[Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military Tribunals - 
Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1949-1953, Vol. I, p. 845-846]
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Regarding the report submitted on July 16 by the Chairman of the Fulda
Bishops' conference, Cardinal Dr. Bertram, I consider it my duty to
present the following as a concrete illustration of destruction of
so-called "useless life".

About 8 Kilometers from Limburg in the little town of Hadamar, on a
hill overlooking the town, there is an institution which had formerly
served various purposes and of late had been used as a nursing home.
This institution was renovated and furnished as a place in which, by
consensus of opinion, the above mentioned Euthanasia has been
systematically practiced for months- approximately since February
1941. This fact is, of course, known beyond the administrative
district of Wiesbaden...

Several times a week buses arrive in Hadamard with a considerable
number of such victims. School children of the vicinity know this
vehicle and say "here comes the murder-box again". After the arrival
of the vehicle, the citizens of Hadamar watch the smoke rise out of
the chimney...

The effect of the principles at work here that children call each
other names and say "you're crazy; you'll be sent to the baking oven
in Hadamar"...

All God-fearing man consider this destruction of helpless beings a
crass injustice...

Officials of the State Police, it is said, are trying to suppress
discussions of the Hadamar occurrences by means of severe threats...

I beg you most humbly, Herr Reich Minister, in the sense of the report
of the Episcopate of 16 July of this year, to prevent further
transgressions of the Fifth Commandment of God.




-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Nov 25 06:23:38 PST 1996
Article: 81468 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: 'However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32933FD3.7BF1@rio.com> <5758ge$igq@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 13:29:47 GMT
Lines: 19

rblackmore@juno.com writes:

# Let's see 80,000 civilians at Hiroshima, 60,000 at
# Nagasaki,130,000 at Dresden-

By your own standards, you have to show us the corpses
of the alleged 130,000 Dresden victims.

Fair is fair. You ask for this type of evidence for Nazi
crimes. You should, then, present it for crimes you
accuse the Allies of.

Can you show us the remains of these alleged 130,000
corpses?


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Nov 25 06:23:39 PST 1996
Article: 81476 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Dr. Wahlmann Makes a Decision
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 22:37:00 GMT
Lines: 16

Q. You mentioned to the commission that you were afraid of death.
   Did it ever occur to you that some of those Russians and Poles
   who were killed in your institution may have been afraid of
   death?

A. Yes, but my death comes closer to me.


(Quoted from the testimony of Dr. Adolf Wahlmann, chief physician
 in Hadamar; p. 170 in "The Hadamar Trial").


 -Danny Keren.





From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Nov 25 06:23:39 PST 1996
Article: 81477 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!howland.erols.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: agressive
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <3291860a.40274744@news.gte.net>  <3295709f.2635466@news.gte.net>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 10:45:22 GMT
Lines: 58

chief@rabbi.com (Nizkor's handler) (lying Nazi coward afraid to
post under his own name) writes:

## dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:
##
##        Giwer wants to kill people who disagree 
##           with him about historical facts

[...]

# We always expect lies from people who front for jews.

 From mgiwer@ix.netcom.com Tue Sep 17 09:07:00 EDT 1996
 Article: 121220 of alt.revisionism

[Giwer writes to me]

# Were you at my back in combat I would turn and kill you
# first as you can not be trusted to have loyalties to the
# US above all others.

This is a death threat, plain and simple.

 From mgiwer@ix.netcom.com Sat Sep 21 17:58:06 EDT 1996
 Article: 122260 of alt.revisionism

# Keren of course is an apologist liar for murdering jews and 
# a traitor because his loyalties are to Israel rather than to
# the US.
#
# The curse is upon him.
#
# He and everyone like him has been formally reported to the US
# Gov and they have no mroe chance of getting or retaining a
# security clearance than Pollard and for the same reason, they
# are no loyal Americans.
#
# They have all supported Isreali murders of Americans.
#
# Their fate should be death but the curse is now upon them.

Giwer clearly says I should be killed because my opinions
on history differ from his.

 From mgiwer@ix.netcom.com Sat Sep 21 18:10:17 EDT 1996
 Article: 122347 of alt.revisionism

[Giwer writes to me]

# May napalm burn you skin.  May cannon fire tear your
# apart.  May you know death from drowning.

Again, Giwer clearly says I should be killed because my 
opinions on history differ from his.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Nov 25 06:23:40 PST 1996
Article: 81504 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Flowers for David Irving
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: 
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 08:21:47 GMT
Lines: 19

 From David Irving's "Hitler's War", 1977:

p. 576

To SS Generals on October 4, 1943, Himmler praised the toughness
of those who had to carry out the massacare...

Even where women and children were concerned he, Himmler, opted
for a clear solution. "I did not consider myself justified in
exterminating the menfolk - that is to kill them or have them
killed - while leaving their children to grow up and take
vengeance on our sons and our grandsons. The hard decision had
to be taken to make this race disappear from earth".




-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Nov 25 06:23:41 PST 1996
Article: 81526 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-lond.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!btnet!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!usenet2.news.uk.psi.net!uknet!usenet1.news.uk.psi.net!uknet!EU.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!portc02.blue.aol.com!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Mass Murder in Belsen Camp, I
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <32946dcf.637569@199.0.216.204>
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 21:20:58 GMT
Lines: 43

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

# Did anyone ask Mr. Harold Le Druillence to take them
# to the scenes of the crimes? Did anyone care to dig up
# these mass graves?
#
#        Evidently not.

The following photos are in

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/bergen-belsen/images

They are all scanned from "The Belsen Trial" - Edited by R. Phillips,
William Hodge and Company, 1949.  

belsen01.jpg: A Mass grave in Belsen camp.
belsen02.jpg: A bulldozer being used to bury corpses in Belsen.
belsen03.jpg: Emaciated corpses in Belsen.
belsen04.jpg: Plump, overweight SS-women bury skeletal corpses in Belsen.
belsen05.jpg: The corpse of a child is thrown into a mass grave in Belsen.
         
The following photos, of some of the SS staff in Belsen (and before
that, in Auschwitz-Birkenau) are in:
       
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bormann.juana/images/

Bormann.jpg: Juana Bormann, murderous SS-woman (served in Auschwitz 
             and Belsen). 

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/h/hoessler.franz/images/

Hoessler.jpg: SS-officer Franz Hoessler in front of a truckload of
              corpses in Belsen.

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/k/kramer.joseph/images/

Kramer.jpg:   Joseph Kramer, who served as commandant of Auschwitz
              II (Birkenau) and later Belsen.                       


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Nov 25 06:23:42 PST 1996
Article: 81532 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!news.mindspring.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Treblinka
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <57820u$5h6@Vir.com>
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 07:43:58 GMT
Lines: 30

Jean-Francois Beaulieu  writes:
# John Morris wrote:

# Is it another invention from you or did Al really
# wrote such a thing a day? When?

He did write something about it being "impossible
to kill so many people in a place of that size".

He has the same problem you have, namely, he cannot
handle third-grade arithmetic. But I sort of like Al
Baron. Unlike most of the other "revisionists", I don't
believe he plans to build a new Auschwitz and a new
Treblinka. He really believes what he says; he really
is crazy.

## And have you no shame? Stealing Al Baron's lines
## while the poor dear rots in a jail cell.

So, any recent News about Al? If he's indeed in jail,
he's the third "revisionist scholar" to post here
who has done time (the others being Don Black, who,
it was posted, spent two years in jail for trying to
overthrow the government of some small country -
Dominican Republic was it - and Jason Smith, who posted
he was in jail for beating someone).


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Nov 25 06:23:42 PST 1996
Article: 81542 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Wither the ten million?
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <3293fcce.100670274@news.gte.net>  <3297bd00.33182719@news.gte.net>
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 09:21:20 GMT
Lines: 33

jimmy@jaimie.mcc (jimmy) [lying Nazi coward afraid to post
under his own name] writes:

# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

## If you will demand to see 6 million corpses as a proof
##  that the Holocaust took place, you should also demand
##  to see 10 million or so corpses as proof of Stalin's
##  atrocities, and 100,000 corpses or so as proof that
##  Dresden was bombed, etc.

# As for Stalin, we need some 20 million for the Ukraine
# alone but we know where they are

"We know where they are"? You can show us 20 million
corpses? Go ahead.

# So too are the Dresden burials marked.  There is no need
# to asked after them.

Huh? Where? Show us 130,000 corpses (or 250,000, or
500,000, whatever the "revisionist" version is this week).

# This differs from the holocaust in which there is no paper
# trail, no primary, secondary or tertiary orders and no
# indication of any organized activity.

Numerous documents are posted here daily, some with their
photographs. Stop being such an idiot.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Nov 25 06:23:43 PST 1996
Article: 81579 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!swrinde!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Flowers for David Irving
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: 
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 08:12:38 GMT
Lines: 33

Yeh, well, you forgot the story with Irving's book
about the PQ-17 convoy. You want to remind us what
was the verdict in the libel case against him?

Here's a little question about this "leading
revisionist scholar".

In his 1977 book, "Hitler's War", Irving wrote:

 For the time being Himmler reluctantly kept the able bodied
Jews alive for the work they could perform; but further east
the Gaulleiters had no intention of preserving the unemployable
Jews: a letter dated October 25 in SS files states that Adolf
Eichmann had now approved Gauleiter Lohse's proposal that
those arriving at Riga should be killed by mobile gas
trucks. This initial as hoc operation gathered momentum.
Soon the Jews from the Lodz gehtto and Greiser's territories
were being deported further east - to the extermination camp
at Chelmno.



A few years later, he said in Zundel's trial (according
to an article often posted to alt.revisionism by
Jeff Roberts), that he never saw any document about
the extermination of Jews.

Can any of you brilliant "revisionist scholars" explain
this?


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Nov 25 06:23:44 PST 1996
Article: 81581 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!swrinde!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Flowers for David Irving
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: 
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 08:17:28 GMT
Lines: 25

 From David Irving's "Hitler's War", 1977:

1) p. xiv:

 ...But the SS authorities, Gauleiters, and regional
commisars and governors in "the east" proved wholly unequal
to the problems caused by this mass uprooting in midwar.
The Jews were brought by trainloads to ghettos already
overcrowded and underprovisioned. Partly in collusion with
each other, partly independently, the Nazi agencies there
simply liquidated the deportees as their trains arrived, on
a scale increasingly more methodical and more regimented as
the months passed.

A subsidiary motive in the atrocity was the animal desire
of the murderes to loot and plunder the Jewish victims and
conceal their traces. (This hypothesis does not include the
methodical liquidation of Russian Jews during the "Barbarosa"
invasion of 1941..)




-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Nov 25 06:23:45 PST 1996
Article: 81587 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Squeezing People Into a Given Volume (Treblinka Graves)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 20:27:24 GMT
Lines: 44

As I am known by my two secret admirers on this group
for my excellent memory (har, har), this "debate" on how
many people can be buried in a given volume reminded me
that, quite a few years ago, I was looking at the
well-known collection of photographs from LIFE magazine,
which some of you may have.

(Unfortunately, the cover page is gone, so I don't know
how the collection is called, but it must be well-known;
can someone give its name and year of publication? I do
have the introduction, and it's supposed to have "the
best pictures that had appeared in LIFE over 36 years",
and it seems to have been published in 1972. I guess
it's called "The Best of LIFE").

Anyway, I recalled that it had a photo of some folks
trying to break the record of stuffing people into
a phone booth (an old American fad). Indeed, I found
it on page 225.

The photo shows a cheerful bunch of fellows crammed into
a rather small phone booth. They are, according to the
caption, "22 undergrads of St. Mary's College". The
caption also states that the record is 34 people.

The volume of the phone booth is not given; It seems,
though, rather small. Perhaps 1 x 1 x 2 meters (two
cubic meters - I know this calculation would be too
challenging for our "revisionist scholars").

I'll also add that the fellows crammed into the booth
don't seem short, or thin, but rather average.

If 22 (or 34) living adults can be squeezed into
this volume, how many dead people - many of whom are
children - can one squeeze into a similar volume?

Maybe our "revisionist mathematicians" want to answer?

BTW, this is also relevant to the question of how many
people can be squeezed into a gas chamber.


-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Nov 25 06:23:45 PST 1996
Article: 81599 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!hookup!swrinde!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Flowers for David Irving
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: 
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 08:20:23 GMT
Lines: 15

 From David Irving's "Hitler's War", 1977:

p. 391:

..the Jews set out eastward under the dircetion of one of the
crulest SS leaders, Brigadier Odilo Globonik, the Trieste-born
former Gauleiter of Vienna. Upon arrival at Auschwitz and
Treblinka, four in every ten were pronounced fit for work;
the rest were exterminated.




-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Nov 25 06:23:46 PST 1996
Article: 81602 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!uwm.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: 'However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32940ef2.520875884@news.zilker.net> <5758th$igq@juliana.sprynet.com> <32978219.140711354@news.txdirect.net>
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 07:51:54 GMT
Lines: 21

SS-Doctor Kremer about his days at Auschwitz: 
[Quoted in 'The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The 
Free Press, NY, 1988, p. 258].
-------------------------------------------------------------------
I remember I once took part in the gassing of one of these groups
of women [from the women's camp in Auschwitz]. I cannot say how
big the group was. when I got close to the bunker I saw them
sitting on the ground. They were still clothed. As they were
wearing worn-out camp clothing they were not left in the undressing
hut but made to undress in the open air. I concluded from the
behavior of these women that they had no doubt what fate awaited
them, as they begged and sobbed to the SS men to spare them their
lives. However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed.
As an anatomist I have seen a lot of terrible things: I had had
a lot of experience with dead bodies, and yet what I saw that
day was like nothing I had ever seen before. Still completely
shocked by what I had seen I wrote on my diary on 5 September 
1942: "The most dreadful of horrors. Hauptscharfuehrer Thilo was
right when he said to me today that this is the 'anus mundi', the
anal orifice of the world". I used this image because I could not
imagine anything more disgusting and horrific.


From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Nov 25 06:23:47 PST 1996
Article: 81613 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,alt.revisionism,aus.general,aus.politics
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.bc.net!nntp.portal.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!news.sgi.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Australian PM Revisionist Of The Year !!!!
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <564q05$694@jerry.loop.net> <329303e6.37566942@news.gte.net> <329c549e.677402@news.sydney.apana.org.au> <3297ae65.29442875@news.gte.net>
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 07:33:16 GMT
Lines: 24
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.jewish:94067 alt.revisionism:81613

[Followup = alt.revisionism]

jimmy@jaimie.mcc (jimmy) [lying Nazi coward afraid to post
under his own name] writes:

# But nothing approaching any such number of mass graves
# has ever been found.

Let's start with these. Just some photographs of what
your Nazi heroes have done.

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/bergen-belsen/images
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/buchenwald/images
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/dachau/images
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/natzweiler/images
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/nordhausen/images
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/ohrdruf/images
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/thekla/images
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/maidanek/images
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?orgs/german/einsatzgruppen/images


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Nov 25 06:23:47 PST 1996
Article: 81614 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!hookup!swrinde!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Flowers for David Irving
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: 
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 08:32:01 GMT
Lines: 55

      Summary: A "leading revisionist scholar" in action;
              David Irving Parades His Ignorance
      ---------------------------------------------------

In an article quoted a few times by "Jeff Roberts" on this
group, Irving is answering Pearson, during his appearance as
a witness in the Zundel trial; Roberts' text (and Irving's)
is preceded by "#".

# Pearson [prosecutor at the Zundel trial] mentioned a report
# number 51 dated December 1, 1942, which mentioned 363,211
# Soviet Jews executed over the past three months.
#
# I can only repeat what I said previously,  said [David] Irving,
# that this was such an extraordinary document, that the figure
# was so unusual [...].
#
# "This document is very much an orphan," said Irving.

Is that so? How about:

1) Letter from Generalkommisar for white Russia, Kube, to
   Reichkommisar for the Ostland, Lohse, 31 July 1942. Reports
   that 55,000 Jews were murdered in the last ten weeks.

2) Letter from Inspector of Armaments in the Ukraine to General of
   Infantry, Thomas, December 2 1941. Reports that so far up to
   200,000 Jews were murdered in the Nazi-occupied Ukraine.

3) Letter from SS Major-General Stahlecker to SS General Heydrich,
   January 31, 1942. Reports that, so far, 229,000 Jews were
   murdered in the "Eastern Territories".

4) Detailed report by SS-Standartenfuehrer Jager about mass killings
   in Nazi occupied USSR, July-November 1941. Reports that, so far,
    more than 130,000 Jews were murdered in Nazi-occupied Lithuania

Perhaps Irving never heard about these documents?

Some "historian", indeed. The study of this part of history
is, for me, a hobby. I've been doing it for 5 years or so. Irving
is 58 years old, and has been allegedly studying the Holocaust
for many years. How come I know about these documents, and
he doesn't?

Any "revisionist" out there wants to explain this?

[BTW, there are the recently declassified British intercepts
 of Nazi transmissions from that period, also mentioning mass
 murder of Jews in Nazi-occupied USSR. I am not including
 these here as Irving may have not known about them in 1985].


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Nov 25 06:23:48 PST 1996
Article: 81637 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,fl.general,alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Attack on Alt.Revisionism -- Gate.Net Refuses to Help
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <558uaj$38a@panix2.panix.com>  <3293d728.2391231 
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 10:26:03 GMT
Lines: 31
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.jewish:94081 alt.revisionism:81637

schwartz@infinet.com (Sara aka Perrrfect) writes:

# Mr. Giwer....
#
# please knock it off.
# 
# You're not even amusing anymore, just plain pathetic.
# 
# Go away, little man.

He would, if he could find a job. He claims to have an IQ
of 163, remember, yet he also posted that he's unemployed
since he was 46-years-old. Strange. Very strange. 163 IQ,
and he can't find a job?

However, it's fine if he stays. We need Giwer; he serves
as a superb example to the intelligence, and mental state,
of "Holocaust revisionists". Just see his classic argument,
quoted below.


-Danny Keren.

 ---
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.





From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Nov 25 06:23:49 PST 1996
Article: 81675 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news.algonet.se!eua.ericsson.se!erinews.ericsson.se!cnn.exu.ericsson.se!newshost.convex.com!newsgate.duke.edu!news.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!portc02.blue.aol.com!howland.erols.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Wither the ten million?
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <576a7h$kof@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 06:00:35 GMT
Lines: 36

rblackmore@juno.com writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:

## 1) If you will demand to see 6 million corpses as a proof
##    that the Holocaust took place, you should also demand
##    to see 10 million or so corpses as proof of Stalin's
##    atrocities, and 100,000 corpses or so as proof that
##    Dresden was bombed, etc.

# This is no answer.

Sure it is, and even a lame-brained Nazi like you
should realize it. You cannot apply a double standard
and demand to see the corpses of genocide A as proof
it took place, while not demanding this for genocide B.

# Your figures are much greater

It is claimed that million of Germans died in Allied
bombings, plus at Soviet captivity, plus in starvation
and deportations after the war. You cannot show us one
single corpse of one such victim. According to
"revisionist" standards, these crimes never took place.

# and we also have the exact locations where
# you claim these crimes occurred.

Same for the crimes you claim took place.

# Show us one mass grave.

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/bergen-belsen/images


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Nov 25 06:23:49 PST 1996
Article: 81695 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.idt.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Elie Wiesel
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32940275.3DA1@worldnet.att.net>  <3297c62b.35529664@news.gte.net>
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 13:16:17 GMT
Lines: 27

jimmy@jaimie.mcc (jimmy) writes [to me]:

# But look what happened because of McVay.  You spent so
# much time seeking his approval that you slacked off on
# your degree work and did not get the job you really wanted.  
# You are not even in the field you really wanted.

Heck, that's true - I always really wanted to play center 
in the NBA. Since I was five-years-old, that's what I
dreamed about.

# And can McVay fix that?  

No. I'm too short. I'm so short I can't even be a cheerleader.

# Is he really approving of what you sacrificed for him?  

Sheesh. You can look at all I have and still ask that? Heck,
even us small guys can enjoy life... hey, Finstein, you
fat broad! Watch it there with the submarine... darn, you
almost scratched my yacht again.

Why don't you join us, Matt(?). You know you want to.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Nov 25 06:23:50 PST 1996
Article: 81731 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.immigration,alt.discrimination,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pull.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Holocaust-Denial Nonsense (Re: blood sucking  BRIAN SM
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <54o0mu$2j5@news1.panix.com> <56vsfn$d97@is05.micron.net>  <57949k$cds@is05.micron.net>
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 16:35:23 GMT
Lines: 65
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:81731 alt.discrimination:56857 alt.politics.white-power:50286 alt.politics.nationalism.white:36824

[Followup = alt.revisionism]

sbrian@micron.net (Brian Smith) writes:

# Which indicate nothing more than that Zyklon B was used
# for delousing to save lives, exactly as it was manufactured
# for.

Letter from Dr. Erhard Wetzel to Reichskommissar Lohse, October 25, 1941
[Hitler and the Final Solution - G. Fleming, University of California
Press, 1984, p. 70]
------------------------------------------------------------------------
With regard to my letter of 18 October 1941, please be informed that
Oberdiensleiter [Chief Executive Officer] Brack from the Fuehrer's
Chancellory has stated his readiness to assist in the construction of
the necessary accommodations and gassing apparatuses, so they must
first be constructed. Brack's view is that, since construction of the
apparatuses within the Reich would present far greater difficulties
than on-site production, the most expedient course of action is to
send his people directly to Riga, in particular his chemist Dr.
Kallmeyer, who will take the necessary steps from there.
Oberdiensleiter Brack further points out that the procedure in
question is not without its hazards, and that therefore special safety
precautions are needed. Under these circumstances, I ask you to
contact Oberdiensleiter Brack in the Fuehrer's Chancellory through
your higher SS and Police leader. Please request from him the
dispatching of the chemist Dr. Kallmeyer and any further assistants
that are needed. I might further point out that Sturmbannfuehrer
Eichmann, the adviser on Jewish affairs in the Reich main security
office, is in complete accord with this procedure. According to the
information received here from Sturmbannfuehrer Eichmann, camps for
Jews will be set up in Riga and Minsk, where Jews from the Altreich
[Germany proper] might also be sent. Jews are currently being
evacuated from the Altreich to Lodz and other camps, from which those
fit for work will be transferred to work forces in the east. Given the
present situation, Jews who are not fit for work can be eliminated
without qualms through use of the Brack device. Incidents such as
those that took place during the shootings of Jews in Vilna, according
to a report I have on my desk, can hardly be sanctioned, keeping in
mind that the executions were undertaken openly, and the new
procedures assure that such incidents will no longer be possible. Jews
fit for work, on the other hand, will be transported to work forces in
the east. That the men and women in this latter group must be kept
apart from each other goes without saying. Please keep me informed as
to any further measures you take.



(A scan of this document is in the web pages

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/w/wetzel.erhard/images/
wetzel-lohse-01.jpg

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/w/wetzel.erhard/images/
wetzel-lohse-02.jpg)

# Why do you persist in the gassing lie?

Why do you persist in denying what you obviously consider
the greatest achievement of your Fuehrer? How odd.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Nov 25 06:23:51 PST 1996
Article: 81809 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.eznet.net!news-out.internetmci.com!peerfeed.internetmci.com!dciteleport.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Szlama Dragon Testifies About Auschwitz
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 12:05:07 GMT
Lines: 28

Testimony of member of the Auschwitz sonderkommando, Szlama Dragon
[Quoted in "Nazi Mass Murder: A Documentary History of the
Use of Poison Gas", edited by E. Kogon, H. Langbein, and
A. Rueckerl, Yale University Press, 1993, p. 167]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
It [crematorium V] had been built on the same model as IV. Both had
four ovens on each of two sides. Three corpses could fit into each
oven. The undressing room and the gas chambers were at ground level.
The gassing operations themselves were carried out in the same way
as in bunkers 1 and 2.

 .
 .
 .

After a little while, Mengele announced that the people were dead; he
said "it's finished". And he left with [SS-man] Scheinmetz in the
Red Cross car. Then [SS-Hauptscharfuehrer] Moll opened the door of
the gas chamber; we put on our masks and dragged the corpses from
the different gas chambers through the corridor into the undressing 
room, then from there through the neighboring corridor to the crematory
ovens. 




-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Nov 25 06:23:52 PST 1996
Article: 81810 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!news.akorn.net!news.his.com!news.walltech.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: More 'Revisionist Math' (Re: Treblinka mass graves)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <579q7e$c8d@Vir.com>
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 19:30:52 GMT
Lines: 54

   Summary: Jean-Francois Beaulieu proves, yet again,
        that he cannot handle third-grade math
   -------------------------------------------------

Jean-Francois Beaulieu  writes:

# The number of people that could be burried in Treblinka can
# be estimate by a simple way:

IF you can handle third-grade arithmetic, which you can't;
see below.

# we have to imagine is a cofin of 1 meter square area, and 2
# meter long: how many people can be put there? I'm saying no
# more than 5.

I disagree; but let's look at how you continue your calculation,
using your estimate.

# with a 5,000 meter square surface, 10 meters depht we have
                                     ^^
# about 120,000 corpses. Keren's claim would require 25 persons
        ^^^^^^^
# in this coffin, and the proportion of childrens in the
# population is around 20%.(1) The minimum depht would be thus
# about 500 meters, althought we must add to that the sand
        ^^^^^^^^^^
# between the layers.

You poor, poor fellow.

You're saying that 120,000 corpses would require a depth
of 10 meters.

This means that 500 meters would be enough for

120,000*(500/10) = 120,000*50 = 6,000,000

But the higher estimates for the number of victims in
Treblinka are about 800,000, as you know well.

I said already: YOU CANNOT HANDLE BASIC ARITHMETIC. Neither
BTW, can other "revisionists": Faurisson, Tommy Moran,
Matt Giwer...

Sorry about that, old chap. Here's a friendly suggestion:
go back to school, master these topics (addition,
multiplication, division), and then come back to us.

Ok?


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Nov 25 06:23:53 PST 1996
Article: 81811 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.interactive.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Death in Mauthausen
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 11:53:44 GMT
Lines: 108

Affidavit of SS member Alois Hoellriegl, a guard in Mauthausen
[Quoted in "Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression" - Washington, U.S Govt. 
Print.  Off., 1946, Vol. VIII, p. 630]
------------------------------------------------------------------
Executions were carried out almost daily at Mauthausen. In the 
years preceding 1942 they were carried out by firing squads and
the bodies were burned in the camp incinerator which operated
almost daily. SS-guards made up the firing squads and were detailed
for the work in a routine manner the same as for other work details.
Victims executed by a firing squad were always shot singly by six
men using rifles. The number of executions varied daily. Sometimes 
they included persons brought by the Gestapo who were executed
immediately.

In 1942 a gas chamber resembling a shower room was built next to
the incinerator. Gas executions were carried out in the gas chamber
approximately three times a week and the bodies were burned in the
adjoining incinerator. From my guard post I could hear the sound of
the victims pounding on the door when the gas was turned on.




Testimony of Albert Tiefenbacher, political prisoner in Mauthausen
[Quoted in "Trial of the Major War Criminals Before the
International Military Tribunal", Vol. XXXIII, p. 226]
--------------------------------------------------------------
Q. Did you hear Kaltenbrunner say anything to Ziereis?

A. No, I was never so close to him. The carriers of the dead had to
   disappear when visitors were there, only the two firemen were
   allowed to stay in the crematorium.

Q. Do you remember Wolfram?

A. He was a medic.

Q. What do you know about him?

A. Wolfram gave many of the deadly injections to people.

Q. Do you remember Eckermann?

A. I know a block-leader Ecker.

Q. Do you remember the gas chamber camouflaged as a bath house?

A. Yes, we always helped to carry the dead from the gas chamber.




Testimony of Johann Kanduth, political prisoner in Mauthausen
[Quoted in "Trial of the Major War Criminals Before the
International Military Tribunal", Vol. XXXIII]
------------------------------------------------------------------
p. 232:

Q. Describe your work.

A. At first my occupation consisted of removing the bodies, then
   I served the heating and had to learn to put in the corpses,
   then I had to stir up and take out the ashes. This was my occupation
   during 4.5 years.

 .
 .
 .

p. 233:

Q. What kinds of execution preceded your cremation?

A. They were shot in the back of the neck. There were also women.
   Some were killed in the gas chamber. Other were killed by
   springes of gasoline or Efamedem, which were given by a certain
   Klein Guenther.

 .
 .
 .

p. 242:

Q. Do you remember the executions of the English and American
   military personnel in the year 1945?

A. Yes.

Q. Tell us something about it.

A. The staff went downstairs, Ziereis, Bachmaier, Streitwieser,
   Niedermayer led them. I do not remember if Altfuldich was
   present too. Ohrenstein must know it. Schulz was always
   present. Proksch and Rommel led them up from the bunker.

Q. Were you employed at the moment of the execution?

A. No.

Q. Do you know who was employed?

A. Ohrenstein, the only survivor. I came later. Hauptscharfuehrer
   Roth fetched me when the execution was over. The 14 bodies of
   the Americans lay separately.





From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Nov 25 06:54:14 PST 1996
Article: 81825 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!dciteleport.com!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Treblinka mass graves
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <57b4s6$s5e@Vir.com>
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 13:45:51 GMT
Lines: 57

Jean-Francois Beaulieu  writes:
# Daniel Keren wrote:
 
## First, note the source I posted. It shows a photo of
## 22 undergrads squeezed into a phone booth about 2 cubic
## meters in volume (same to the volume you give). The text
## says that a number of 34 was reached. You obviously have
## a serious problem with your estimate of 5 people in that
## volume, more so since the photo shows undergrads (that is,
## people at least 18-years-old), and in Treblinka etc there
## were many infants and children present.
 
# I suspect however that it concern a group of students who
# wanted to establish a guiness record, so a group of people
# where individual who where not enough small were reject in
# advance. 
 
As I said, they seem rather normal in size. Surely far larger
than the average Polish Jew (including infants and children).
 
# A first remark, there's not 'many' infants in the
# Treblinka sample, but 21 or 22% of childrens of less than
# 15 year's old in the jewish population according to the
# source I posted yesterday.
 
What source? 22% doesn't seem reasonable.
 
# Second remark, this example is a guiness record that most of 
# the people couldn't reach.

Sorry, pal, this is utter garbage. The photo shows 22 people,
the text says that 34 was achieved. You give a (revised) number
of 8 or 9, which means a difference by a factor of more than 3,
which is clearly ridiculous.
 
# and I underestimated the number, it
# would be probably around 8 or 9 rather than 5.
 
I posted the calculations already. 9 people, with an average weight
of 40 Kg (allowing for infants and children), is 360 Kg. That's
0.36 cubic meters. Thus, you're saying they would occupy 18% of
the 2 cubic meters. This is preposterous, and if you really
believe this, you're stupid beyond words.
 
Look at the photos buchenwald01.jpg, buchenwald03.jpg, in
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/buchenwald/images
 
One can obviously see that the corpses occupy far more than 18%
of the volume. Relatively little is lost due to inefficient
packing.
 
Why can't you understand basic arithmetic?
 
 
-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Nov 25 06:56:25 PST 1996
Article: 36502 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.clinton,alt.discrimination,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.immigration,alt.skinheads,alt.con
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!peerfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: blood sucking J E W S
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <55l7ct$6d1@noc.van.hookup.net> <56l2dn$1r1@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <56mg48$6l3@is05.micron.net> <56rbtn$55g@transend.com.tw>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 08:34:51 GMT
Lines: 29
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.clinton:334297 alt.discrimination:56614 alt.politics.white-power:49992 alt.politics.nationalism.white:36502 alt.skinheads:43348

[Folloup = alt.revisionism]

Brian Smith (sbrian@micron.net) wrote:

# Interesting you brought it up because lIberation
# photos of Dachau show healthy and even cheerful inmates.

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/dachau/images

dachau01.jpg: Corpses of the inmates.
dachau02.jpg, dachau03.jpg: Mass graves of murdered inmates 
near Dachau.


http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/buchenwald/images

buchenwald01.jpg, buchenwald03.jpg: emaciated corpses of the inmates.

buchenwald02.jpg: artifacts made from corpses of inmates.

buchenwald04.jpg: German civilians living near the camp, after the 
American troops have taken them to Buchenwald to witness the horrors. 
Notice how well-dressed and well-fed they are, and contrast this with
the lie put forward by Nazi-apologists: "the inmates died because
there was shortage of food in Germany".


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Nov 25 06:56:26 PST 1996
Article: 36638 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.clinton,alt.discrimination,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.immigration,alt.skinheads,alt.conspiracy,alt.religion.islam
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.bc.net!unixg.ubc.ca!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Holocaust-Denial Nonsense (Re: blood sucking  BRIAN SM
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <54o0mu$2j5@news1.panix.com>  <32917022.46EC@se-iowa.net> <56vsfn$d97@is05.micron.net>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 08:22:25 GMT
Lines: 54
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.clinton:334642 alt.discrimination:56724 alt.politics.white-power:50106 alt.politics.nationalism.white:36638 alt.skinheads:43460 alt.conspiracy:112891 alt.religion.islam:33848

[Followup = alt.revisionism]

sbrian@micron.net (Brian Smith) writes:

# Interesting.  Even mainstream Holocaust proponents now admit
# there were no gas chambers at Dachau and have shifted the
# primarily debate to Auschwitz.

How odd. The "Institute for Contemporary History" in Munich, 
Germany, has this to say about Dachau (from a summary they 
published in 1992):

 "Dachau (Upper Bavaria, northeast of Munich): During the 
establishment of a new house of cremation in 1942 also a gas chamber 
was established in it in which in connection with the medical 
experiments of the chief company commander of SS Dr. Rascher also 
a few experimental gassings were undertaken".

It is true that the extent of gassing in Dachau was much smaller
than in Auschwitz, Treblinka etc.

See also 

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/r/rascher.sigmund/
images/Rascher1.jpg

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/r/rascher.sigmund/
images/Rascher2.jpg

Two pages of letter from Dr. Rascher to Reichsfuehrer Himmler, 
suggesting to use the Dachau gassing facilities to test "combat 
gases" on inmates. Page 2 contains the following:


 "As you know, the very same equipment is in the concentration
  camp at Dachau as was used at Linz [Hartheim]. Whereas the
  "invalid transports" end up in certain chambers [at Linz]
  anyway, I ask whether we cannot test some of our various
  combat gases on specific persons who are involved in the 
  action. Up till now there have only been animal tests
  or accounts of accidental deaths in the manufacture of these
  gases. Because of this paragraph, I have sent this letter
  marked 'secret'."

# The only problem is that there is no more physical evidence
# for gas chambers at Auschwitz then there was for Dachau.

Kindly stop with this nonsense. Even "revisionists" agree that
there are cyanide compounds on the walls of the Auschwitz gas
chambers.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Nov 25 06:56:27 PST 1996
Article: 36814 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.clinton,alt.discrimination,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.immigration,alt.skinheads,alt.conspiracy,alt.religion.islam
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!freenet.unbc.edu!news.scn.org!news.abs.net!in1.nntp.cais.net!news.misty.com!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: blood sucking  BRIAN SMITH, and other idiots
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <54o0mu$2j5@news1.panix.com> <56vsfn$d97@is05.micron.net> < <5792f4$cds@is05.micron.net>
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 17:03:24 GMT
Lines: 55
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.clinton:335313 alt.discrimination:56845 alt.politics.white-power:50273 alt.politics.nationalism.white:36814 alt.skinheads:43691 alt.conspiracy:113534 alt.religion.islam:33996

[Followup = alt.revisionism]

sbrian@micron.net (Brian Smith) writes:

# Nuremberg was a kangaroo court if there ever was one.
# The witnesses were never even cross-examined.

That's odd. I have here the book "The Belsen Trial". It
was a major trial of Nazi criminals; some of the highest-
ranking SS-men from Auschwitz-Birkenau and Belsen camps
were among the 45 accused.

All witnesses, with no exception, were cross-examined.

Look at the book and see for yourself. But, I forgot;
your type burns books, doesn't read them - right?

# The German witnesses submitted to threats and brutal
# torture.

Not only is this a lie, but, moreover, numerous SS-men
who ran the death camps were tried after the war by
the German Government. Are you suggesting the Germans
also "tortured" these SS-men, who gave long and detailed
testimonies about the mass murder in these camps?

# The SS executed German officers for mistreating inmates.

On the contrary; SS-men were awarded medals for murdering
inmates. See

Letter from SS-Obersturmbannfuehrer Rodl to the inspector of
concentration camps, SS-Obersturmbannfuehrer Liebehenschel, 14
November 1941
[Hitler and the Final Solution - G. Fleming, University of
California Press, 1984, p. 99]
------------------------------------------------------------------
The Commandant's office has submitted to date two lists recommending
the conferment of the Kreigverdienstkreuz [war service cross]. In
both of these appear SS personnel who participated in executions. We
herewith request confirmation as to whether these names should be
listed once again in the roll currently under preparation. Further
requested is information as to whether in the recommendation lists
under "reasons and comments of immediate superior" there should be
specified "execution, i.e., special action" or whether a general,
routine reason should be given.



Your ignorance is simply overwhelming. You have absolutely
no idea what you're talking about.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Nov 25 06:56:28 PST 1996
Article: 36824 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.immigration,alt.discrimination,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pull.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Holocaust-Denial Nonsense (Re: blood sucking  BRIAN SM
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <54o0mu$2j5@news1.panix.com> <56vsfn$d97@is05.micron.net>  <57949k$cds@is05.micron.net>
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 16:35:23 GMT
Lines: 65
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:81731 alt.discrimination:56857 alt.politics.white-power:50286 alt.politics.nationalism.white:36824

[Followup = alt.revisionism]

sbrian@micron.net (Brian Smith) writes:

# Which indicate nothing more than that Zyklon B was used
# for delousing to save lives, exactly as it was manufactured
# for.

Letter from Dr. Erhard Wetzel to Reichskommissar Lohse, October 25, 1941
[Hitler and the Final Solution - G. Fleming, University of California
Press, 1984, p. 70]
------------------------------------------------------------------------
With regard to my letter of 18 October 1941, please be informed that
Oberdiensleiter [Chief Executive Officer] Brack from the Fuehrer's
Chancellory has stated his readiness to assist in the construction of
the necessary accommodations and gassing apparatuses, so they must
first be constructed. Brack's view is that, since construction of the
apparatuses within the Reich would present far greater difficulties
than on-site production, the most expedient course of action is to
send his people directly to Riga, in particular his chemist Dr.
Kallmeyer, who will take the necessary steps from there.
Oberdiensleiter Brack further points out that the procedure in
question is not without its hazards, and that therefore special safety
precautions are needed. Under these circumstances, I ask you to
contact Oberdiensleiter Brack in the Fuehrer's Chancellory through
your higher SS and Police leader. Please request from him the
dispatching of the chemist Dr. Kallmeyer and any further assistants
that are needed. I might further point out that Sturmbannfuehrer
Eichmann, the adviser on Jewish affairs in the Reich main security
office, is in complete accord with this procedure. According to the
information received here from Sturmbannfuehrer Eichmann, camps for
Jews will be set up in Riga and Minsk, where Jews from the Altreich
[Germany proper] might also be sent. Jews are currently being
evacuated from the Altreich to Lodz and other camps, from which those
fit for work will be transferred to work forces in the east. Given the
present situation, Jews who are not fit for work can be eliminated
without qualms through use of the Brack device. Incidents such as
those that took place during the shootings of Jews in Vilna, according
to a report I have on my desk, can hardly be sanctioned, keeping in
mind that the executions were undertaken openly, and the new
procedures assure that such incidents will no longer be possible. Jews
fit for work, on the other hand, will be transported to work forces in
the east. That the men and women in this latter group must be kept
apart from each other goes without saying. Please keep me informed as
to any further measures you take.



(A scan of this document is in the web pages

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/w/wetzel.erhard/images/
wetzel-lohse-01.jpg

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/w/wetzel.erhard/images/
wetzel-lohse-02.jpg)

# Why do you persist in the gassing lie?

Why do you persist in denying what you obviously consider
the greatest achievement of your Fuehrer? How odd.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Nov 25 07:02:40 PST 1996
Article: 50286 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.immigration,alt.discrimination,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pull.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Holocaust-Denial Nonsense (Re: blood sucking  BRIAN SM
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <54o0mu$2j5@news1.panix.com> <56vsfn$d97@is05.micron.net>  <57949k$cds@is05.micron.net>
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 16:35:23 GMT
Lines: 65
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:81731 alt.discrimination:56857 alt.politics.white-power:50286 alt.politics.nationalism.white:36824

[Followup = alt.revisionism]

sbrian@micron.net (Brian Smith) writes:

# Which indicate nothing more than that Zyklon B was used
# for delousing to save lives, exactly as it was manufactured
# for.

Letter from Dr. Erhard Wetzel to Reichskommissar Lohse, October 25, 1941
[Hitler and the Final Solution - G. Fleming, University of California
Press, 1984, p. 70]
------------------------------------------------------------------------
With regard to my letter of 18 October 1941, please be informed that
Oberdiensleiter [Chief Executive Officer] Brack from the Fuehrer's
Chancellory has stated his readiness to assist in the construction of
the necessary accommodations and gassing apparatuses, so they must
first be constructed. Brack's view is that, since construction of the
apparatuses within the Reich would present far greater difficulties
than on-site production, the most expedient course of action is to
send his people directly to Riga, in particular his chemist Dr.
Kallmeyer, who will take the necessary steps from there.
Oberdiensleiter Brack further points out that the procedure in
question is not without its hazards, and that therefore special safety
precautions are needed. Under these circumstances, I ask you to
contact Oberdiensleiter Brack in the Fuehrer's Chancellory through
your higher SS and Police leader. Please request from him the
dispatching of the chemist Dr. Kallmeyer and any further assistants
that are needed. I might further point out that Sturmbannfuehrer
Eichmann, the adviser on Jewish affairs in the Reich main security
office, is in complete accord with this procedure. According to the
information received here from Sturmbannfuehrer Eichmann, camps for
Jews will be set up in Riga and Minsk, where Jews from the Altreich
[Germany proper] might also be sent. Jews are currently being
evacuated from the Altreich to Lodz and other camps, from which those
fit for work will be transferred to work forces in the east. Given the
present situation, Jews who are not fit for work can be eliminated
without qualms through use of the Brack device. Incidents such as
those that took place during the shootings of Jews in Vilna, according
to a report I have on my desk, can hardly be sanctioned, keeping in
mind that the executions were undertaken openly, and the new
procedures assure that such incidents will no longer be possible. Jews
fit for work, on the other hand, will be transported to work forces in
the east. That the men and women in this latter group must be kept
apart from each other goes without saying. Please keep me informed as
to any further measures you take.



(A scan of this document is in the web pages

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/w/wetzel.erhard/images/
wetzel-lohse-01.jpg

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/w/wetzel.erhard/images/
wetzel-lohse-02.jpg)

# Why do you persist in the gassing lie?

Why do you persist in denying what you obviously consider
the greatest achievement of your Fuehrer? How odd.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Nov 25 07:35:00 PST 1996
Article: 81827 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Forgery (Re: We Jews regard our race as superior . . . .)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <5769nl$kof@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 06:05:52 GMT
Lines: 19

rblackmore@juno.com writes:

[Alleged "quote" from "French Rabbi"]

# Why don't you simply PROVE that this quote
# is a forgery

Sigh. Suppose someone claims that you said that you
like to sexually molest children. You may well take
him to court, and the court will, obviously, ask him
to prove that you said it. If he responds by claiming
that you have to prove you didn't say it, the court
will, obviously, reject this line of defense.

So stop being such a damned idiot, will you?


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Nov 25 07:35:01 PST 1996
Article: 81838 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!news.ac.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Photograph: Hirt's Letter Regarding the Gassings in Natzweiler
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <574tq2$7n8@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 21:27:30 GMT
Lines: 35

rblackmore@juno.com writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:

[Web page with a letter from Dr. Hirt, regarding the gassing
 in Natzweiler]

# Without even bothering to respond to the nonsense above,

But of course. Why bother? They ask for documents. When
the document is given, they don't have what to say. So
they ignore it. They say it's not worth responding to.

What a bunch of desperate, lame-brained Nazis...

The Natzweiler gassing is so well documented that even
David Cole, "leading revisionist scholar", agrees it
took place, as I recall.

# Isn't it curious how all the most damaging documents are
# signed by people alleged to be suicides or MIA's?

Hirt indeed killed himself. But you're lying again; many
documents were written by people who were captured after
the war and have testified about them.

Kramer testified about he personally gassed the people
in Natzweiler. And you have great admiration for Kramer;
you posted that he is a truthful and reliable witness.

You shot yourself in the foot again, you poor, silly,
lying Nazi apologist.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Nov 26 06:24:39 PST 1996
Article: 81891 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!dragonfly.wolfram.com!feeder.chicago.cic.net!wolverine.hq.cic.net!news.cic.net!newsrelay.netins.net!newsfeed.dacom.co.kr!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!news.interpia.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Forgery (Re: We Jews regard our race as superior . . . .)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32947206.6900502@news.zippo.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 07:09:20 GMT
Lines: 22

ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter) writes:

# "We Jews regard our race as superior to all humanity, and look
# forward, not to its  ultimate union with other races, but to its
# triumph over them."
#
# (Goldwin Smith, Jewish Professor of Modern History at Oxford
# University, October, 1981)

I strongly suspect that this "quote" is a forgery, as are 
practically all the other "quotes" you're posting.

If there is/was such a person, and if he said what you allege he
said, this must be written or recorded somewhere. Can you tell
us where? 

Nazi-boy, this is a fair and simple question. When did he say
it? Where did he say it? Where is it recorded?


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Nov 26 06:24:40 PST 1996
Article: 81897 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.society.conservatism,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.usa,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!dciteleport.com!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The Fuhrer's Gaze (Thank You, ourhero!)
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:   <329a255a.12252890@news.micron.net>
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 23:07:32 GMT
Lines: 33
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.society.conservatism:62314 alt.politics.nationalism.white:36915 alt.revisionism:81897 alt.politics.white-power:50371 soc.culture.usa:99567 alt.conspiracy:113844 alt.politics.correct:158702

[Followup = alt.revisionism]

kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt Stele) writes:

# Oh yes.  The OSS.  The same guys who brought us the
# "Dachau gas chambers."  Right.

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/r/rascher.sigmund/
images/Rascher1.jpg

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/r/rascher.sigmund/
images/Rascher2.jpg

Two pages of letter from Dr. Rascher to Reichsfuehrer Himmler,
suggesting to use the Dachau gassing facilities to test "combat
gases" on inmates. Page 2 contains the following: translation
courtesy of John Morris.

   "As you know, the very same equipment is in the concentration
  camp at Dachau as was used at Linz [Hartheim]. Whereas the
  'invalid transports' end up in certain chambers anyway,
  I ask whether we cannot test some of our various
  combat gases on specific persons who are involved in the
  action. Up till now there have only been animal tests
  or accounts of accidental deaths in the manufacture of these
  gases. Because of this paragraph, I have sent this letter
  marked  'Secret'".




-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Nov 26 06:24:41 PST 1996
Article: 81935 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars...
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <56hatd$hqb@news3.gte.net> <19961120043800.XAA09140@ladder01.news.aol.com>  <3293c75a.235077178@news.micron.net>
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 07:44:17 GMT
Lines: 17

kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt Stele) writes:

# These are the Sonderkommando who Holofraud witness Numero
# Uno (Ho'ss) said were eating and smoking upon removing the
# bodies "immediately after gassing.

For the record, that would have been possible in the
gas chambers that were forcibly ventilated (in Kremas II
and III). However, I can't recall reading the "immediately
after gassing" in Hoess' autobiography. Can you give us
a page number, and prove that you are not, again, lying
through your teeth?


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Nov 26 06:24:41 PST 1996
Article: 81987 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Treblinka mass graves
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <579q7e$c8d@Vir.com>
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 23:04:27 GMT
Lines: 34

Jean-Francois Beaulieu  writes:

# we have to imagine is a cofin of 1 meter square area,
# and 2 meter long: how many people can be put there? I'm
# saying no more than 5.

First, note the source I posted. It shows a photo of
22 undergrads squeezed into a phone booth about 2 cubic
meters in volume (same to the volume you give). The text
says that a number of 34 was reached. You obviously have
a serious problem with your estimate of 5 people in that
volume, more so since the photo shows undergrads (that is,
people at least 18-years-old), and in Treblinka etc there
were many infants and children present.

Just look at how ridiculous your figures are, and try to
think before posting such nonsense.

5 people you say. That's about 200 Kg on the average,
accounting for infants and children. Since the density
of humans is about as that of water, you're talking
about a volume of approximately 0.2 cubic meter.

Hence, you're suggesting that the corpses only occupied
*** 1/10 *** of the grave. A packing inefficiency of
*** 90 percent ***.

In case you have some sanity left in you, can't you see
how stupid your claim is, and admit you made a gross
error?


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Nov 26 06:46:32 PST 1996
Article: 94067 of soc.culture.jewish
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,alt.revisionism,aus.general,aus.politics
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.bc.net!nntp.portal.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!news.sgi.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Australian PM Revisionist Of The Year !!!!
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <564q05$694@jerry.loop.net> <329303e6.37566942@news.gte.net> <329c549e.677402@news.sydney.apana.org.au> <3297ae65.29442875@news.gte.net>
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 07:33:16 GMT
Lines: 24
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.jewish:94067 alt.revisionism:81613

[Followup = alt.revisionism]

jimmy@jaimie.mcc (jimmy) [lying Nazi coward afraid to post
under his own name] writes:

# But nothing approaching any such number of mass graves
# has ever been found.

Let's start with these. Just some photographs of what
your Nazi heroes have done.

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/bergen-belsen/images
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/buchenwald/images
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/dachau/images
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/natzweiler/images
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/nordhausen/images
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/ohrdruf/images
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/thekla/images
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/maidanek/images
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?orgs/german/einsatzgruppen/images


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Nov 26 06:46:33 PST 1996
Article: 94081 of soc.culture.jewish
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,fl.general,alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Attack on Alt.Revisionism -- Gate.Net Refuses to Help
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <558uaj$38a@panix2.panix.com>  <3293d728.2391231 
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 10:26:03 GMT
Lines: 31
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.jewish:94081 alt.revisionism:81637

schwartz@infinet.com (Sara aka Perrrfect) writes:

# Mr. Giwer....
#
# please knock it off.
# 
# You're not even amusing anymore, just plain pathetic.
# 
# Go away, little man.

He would, if he could find a job. He claims to have an IQ
of 163, remember, yet he also posted that he's unemployed
since he was 46-years-old. Strange. Very strange. 163 IQ,
and he can't find a job?

However, it's fine if he stays. We need Giwer; he serves
as a superb example to the intelligence, and mental state,
of "Holocaust revisionists". Just see his classic argument,
quoted below.


-Danny Keren.

 ---
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.





From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Nov 26 07:44:22 PST 1996
Article: 56857 of alt.discrimination
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.immigration,alt.discrimination,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pull.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Holocaust-Denial Nonsense (Re: blood sucking  BRIAN SM
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <54o0mu$2j5@news1.panix.com> <56vsfn$d97@is05.micron.net>  <57949k$cds@is05.micron.net>
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 16:35:23 GMT
Lines: 65
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:81731 alt.discrimination:56857 alt.politics.white-power:50286 alt.politics.nationalism.white:36824

[Followup = alt.revisionism]

sbrian@micron.net (Brian Smith) writes:

# Which indicate nothing more than that Zyklon B was used
# for delousing to save lives, exactly as it was manufactured
# for.

Letter from Dr. Erhard Wetzel to Reichskommissar Lohse, October 25, 1941
[Hitler and the Final Solution - G. Fleming, University of California
Press, 1984, p. 70]
------------------------------------------------------------------------
With regard to my letter of 18 October 1941, please be informed that
Oberdiensleiter [Chief Executive Officer] Brack from the Fuehrer's
Chancellory has stated his readiness to assist in the construction of
the necessary accommodations and gassing apparatuses, so they must
first be constructed. Brack's view is that, since construction of the
apparatuses within the Reich would present far greater difficulties
than on-site production, the most expedient course of action is to
send his people directly to Riga, in particular his chemist Dr.
Kallmeyer, who will take the necessary steps from there.
Oberdiensleiter Brack further points out that the procedure in
question is not without its hazards, and that therefore special safety
precautions are needed. Under these circumstances, I ask you to
contact Oberdiensleiter Brack in the Fuehrer's Chancellory through
your higher SS and Police leader. Please request from him the
dispatching of the chemist Dr. Kallmeyer and any further assistants
that are needed. I might further point out that Sturmbannfuehrer
Eichmann, the adviser on Jewish affairs in the Reich main security
office, is in complete accord with this procedure. According to the
information received here from Sturmbannfuehrer Eichmann, camps for
Jews will be set up in Riga and Minsk, where Jews from the Altreich
[Germany proper] might also be sent. Jews are currently being
evacuated from the Altreich to Lodz and other camps, from which those
fit for work will be transferred to work forces in the east. Given the
present situation, Jews who are not fit for work can be eliminated
without qualms through use of the Brack device. Incidents such as
those that took place during the shootings of Jews in Vilna, according
to a report I have on my desk, can hardly be sanctioned, keeping in
mind that the executions were undertaken openly, and the new
procedures assure that such incidents will no longer be possible. Jews
fit for work, on the other hand, will be transported to work forces in
the east. That the men and women in this latter group must be kept
apart from each other goes without saying. Please keep me informed as
to any further measures you take.



(A scan of this document is in the web pages

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/w/wetzel.erhard/images/
wetzel-lohse-01.jpg

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/w/wetzel.erhard/images/
wetzel-lohse-02.jpg)

# Why do you persist in the gassing lie?

Why do you persist in denying what you obviously consider
the greatest achievement of your Fuehrer? How odd.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Nov 28 07:01:28 PST 1996
Article: 82064 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!pumpkin.pangea.ca!news.mira.net.au!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!nntp.coast.net!howland.erols.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Nazi Mass Murder in the Ukraine
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <5757e6$igq@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 13:09:50 GMT
Lines: 18

rblackmore@juno.com writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:

[Quote from a report written by a Nazi official about
mass murder of Jews in the Nazi-occupied Ukraine]

# And where may we find the alleged author of this
# report today?

I don't know. He's either dead, or very old. Heck, now
you can claim he never existed. Go ahead.

Has it ever occurred to you to check with the appropriate
German authorities where these people are?


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Nov 28 07:01:29 PST 1996
Article: 82137 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!pumpkin.pangea.ca!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'rblackmore' Lies About Goeth, etc
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 07:02:47 GMT
Lines: 33

"rblackmore" lies about Nazis allegedly "executing
camp commanders for killing Jews".

 Subject:      Re: Another Holocaust Peculiarity
 From:         rblackmore@juno.com
 Date:         1996/10/21
 Message-Id:   <54eopf$d8c@juliana.sprynet.com>

# Hmmmm.  Not at all, the SS themselves executed Goeth,
# Koch, and other camp commanders who abused the prisoners
# under their charge.  Rascher was also executed by the SS.

Goeth was tried and executed by the Poles, after the war,
and not by the SS. "rblackmore" is lying through his teeth.

Koch, as far as I know, was executed mainly for stealing
state property. I'll appreciate full and exact details
on his trial and execution by the SS.

As for "other camp commanders", "rblackmore" doesn't tell
us anything about them. Most probably, this cheap,
lying Nazi apologist invented this part.

As for Rascher, he killed a great many people during his
ghastly "medical experiments", but these were done with
the full support of the SS, including Himmler. Rascher,
as even "rblackmore" admitted, was executed for a totally
different reason - illegal adoption. Why does "rblackmore"
mention him, then? Because he's a liar.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Nov 28 07:01:29 PST 1996
Article: 82146 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!pumpkin.pangea.ca!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Suchomel and Shoah
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <565v2j$ohh@Vir.com>  <56u0if$ot8@Vir.com> <32977e23.139697414@news.txdirect.net>
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 07:50:59 GMT
Lines: 22

These crazies are really trying to argue that it's
not Suchomel, but someone else, who is interviewed
in "Shoa".

Think about it. They pull such a trick, and no one
discovers it. No one who knows the "real Suchomel"
comes forward to say that it's not him.

Amazing, I'm telling you, these people are amazing.

And, in his trial in 1966, it was also not the
real Suchomel, maybe?

And it's not the real Hitler in the famous filmed
speech, saying that if a war breaks out, this will
mean the "annihilation of the Jews in Europe"?

Amazing. What can I say. Bloody amazing.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Nov 28 07:01:30 PST 1996
Article: 82162 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-paris.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: 'Let them die, why should you care?'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <572sa3$los@juliana.sprynet.com>  <3297ceaf.37709417@news.gte.net>
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 13:30:50 GMT
Lines: 12

jimmy@jaimie.mcc (jimmy) writes [to me]:

# Unlike you, little Danny, when there are no more nazis there
# is no one from whom to obtain praise and self worth.  When
# one apologizes for Jews, there are still many of them to 
# imagine will praise you and give you self worth.

Ok boys, who forgot to run PGP on this?


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Nov 28 07:01:31 PST 1996
Article: 82165 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-paris.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The game is called, smear to win
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32982e27.62149340@news.gte.net>
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 16:23:00 GMT
Lines: 59

        Giwer wants to kill people who disagree 
            with him about historical facts
        ---------------------------------------

Since my opinion about the attack on the USS Liberty,
in the midst of the 1967 Arab-Israeli War, differs from 
his (I believe the attack was an accident), Matt Giwer
says I deserve to die, and he adds an explicit threat to 
kill me himself.

Score one for "revisionist support for freedom of speech".

Needless to say, no "revisionist" has denounced Giwer
for all of this.


 From mgiwer@ix.netcom.com Tue Sep 17 09:07:00 EDT 1996
 Article: 121220 of alt.revisionism

[Giwer writes to me]

# Were you at my back in combat I would turn and kill you
# first as you can not be trusted to have loyalties to the
# US above all others.  

 From mgiwer@ix.netcom.com Sat Sep 21 17:58:06 EDT 1996
 Article: 122260 of alt.revisionism

# Keren of course is an apologist liar for murdering jews and 
# a traitor because his loyalties are to Israel rather than to
# the US.
#
# The curse is upon him.
#
# He and everyone like him has been formally reported to the US
# Gov and they have no mroe chance of getting or retaining a
# security clearance than Pollard and for the same reason, they
# are no loyal Americans.
#
# They have all supported Isreali murders of Americans.
#
# Their fate should be death but the curse is now upon them.  

 From mgiwer@ix.netcom.com Sat Sep 21 18:10:17 EDT 1996
 Article: 122347 of alt.revisionism

[Giwer writes to me]

# May napalm burn you skin.  May cannon fire tear your
# apart.  May you know death from drowning.

# And may you live to suffer all again and again until the 
# end of time and from then into eternity.  




-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Nov 28 07:01:32 PST 1996
Article: 82166 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The game is called, smear to win
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32982e27.62149340@news.gte.net>
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 16:23:44 GMT
Lines: 39

            Giwer the Liar Posts a Testimony
	          Which Does Not Exist
                  -------------------- 

Note that Giwer has nothing with which to respond to the
fake testimony he posted here just a few days ago.

Giwer posted a non-existing testimony. Period. He did it in
order to "prove" that testimonies of survivors are a "lie".

The tactic is simple; "revisionists" use it all the time. They 
invent a non-existing testimony, or distort an existing one, 
and then post it as if it was an actual testimony. Al Baron 
did it. Tom Moran did it. And now Giwer does it.



# In Lueneburg, Germany, a Jewish physician, testifying at the
# trial of 45 men and women for war crimes at the Belsen and
# Oswiecim [Auschwitz] concentration camps, said that 80,000
# Jews,  representing the entire ghetto of Lodz, Poland, had been
# gassed or burned to death in one night at the Belsen camp.



Since there was no such mass gassing in Belsen, Giwer is 
trying to make it appear as if a witness said there was such 
gassing, in order to "prove" that this witness was lying.

Giwer has yet to provide the name of this witness. But
he can't. Note that his only response to this reasonable
request is to spam the group by reposting something totally 
unrelated. 

But this is what you can expect from a senile, pathetic,
miserable liar like Giwer.


-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Nov 28 07:01:33 PST 1996
Article: 82237 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!hunter.premier.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Australian PM Revisionist Of The Year !!!!
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <564q05$694@jerry.loop.net> <3297ae65.29442875@news.gte.net>  
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 11:43:22 GMT
Lines: 25

andrew brady  writes [to me]:

# Do you lable everbody that disagrees with you a Nazi?

No. Most "revisionists", though, are indeed die-hard Nazis.

One possible exception I can think about, in this group, is
Al Baron. He may actually not be a Nazi.

# Is that not what a potential facist would do?

No. I label people according to their opinions, not their 
religion, ethnic group, etc. 

# Are you willing to learn the lesson from this very sad event
# (the holocaust)? - That the hate must stop!

The lesson, my friend, is that we need to identify the Nazi scum 
and fight it, with all means necessary, before they do again what 
they did in Europe during 1933-45.

Best,

-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Nov 28 07:01:33 PST 1996
Article: 82293 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.axionet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Fabian Testifies About Auschwitz
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 11:57:52 GMT
Lines: 28

The testimony of former Auschwitz prisoner Fabian
[Quoted in "Auschwitz: the Proceedings Against Mulka and Others" by 
Bernd Nauman, p. 292-3]:
-----------------------------------------------------------------
The Pole Stachik rode into Block 28 on a bicycle and called out: 
"Stretcher bearers! Two stretchers! One box! Two boxes!". If he said
"one box", we knew it would be a small execution: one family with
child. If he said "stretcher", then there was a big execution.
Sometimes when we got there they had already been shot; but that
only happened in small executions. When there were big executions
we lined up in a corner of Block 11. Those who were selected were
chased into the washroom and had to undress. The window was covered
over with a blanket. In the yard under the window stood the staff
of the SS. Everything went in double time. A certain Jakob took two
prisoners by their arms and marched them over to the Black Wall. 
Then we had to come running with the stretcher and stand behind the
SS men who were doing the firing. When the prisoners were shot -
they were shot in the head with a fairly silent Flobert gun - they
fell over. I grabbed their hands or legs and put them on the
stretcher. Then we ran to the canal in Block 10 and the stretcher
as tilted so the bodies could fall off. While this was going on
the two next ones were already being shot.




-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Nov 28 07:01:34 PST 1996
Article: 82295 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!howland.erols.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Survivor never saw actual gassing deaths
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:    
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 16:57:38 GMT
Lines: 27

slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura) writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

## Why did your "revisionist" source claim that there are
## no Nazi documents regarding gas chambers, while everyone
## who bothered to do just a little reading about the
## Holocaust knows that such documents exist?

# I don't know.

Do you care? Do you find the fact that this person made
a grossly inaccurate statement (to put it mildly), relevant?

# Perhaps he lacked your intellectual acumen, your
# competence as a scholar.

Perhaps. On the other hand, maybe he was just lying
through his teeth?

# Perhaps he was umimpressed by what documents there were.

Why would he be "unimpressed" with them? Because they
contradict "revisionist" insanity?


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Nov 28 07:01:35 PST 1996
Article: 82324 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!spool.mu.edu!newspump.sol.net!iag.net!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!uucp5.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Survivor never saw actual gassing deaths
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:   <329c7d97.27239888@news.gte.net>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 23:25:10 GMT
Lines: 23

rbs@arches.ogre (RBS) [Nazi coward afraid to post under
his own name] writes:

# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

## He did see SS-men pour the Zyklon into the gas chambers.

# He did not say that.

Yes he did.

# Where did you get it?

He said it in Zundel's trial. This is mentioned in the post
by Orest Slepokura, which I responded to. Can you read?


-Danny Keren.

PS - Are you Matt Giwer? If so, why did you write to my
     ISP and ask that he close my account? Why did you
     threaten him that if he doesn't, he will be mail-bombed?



From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Nov 28 07:01:35 PST 1996
Article: 82355 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!pumpkin.pangea.ca!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: R. Blackmore, public library
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <55qv5m$bfn$1@gruvel.une.edu.au> <57d3u2$9k6@bell.maths.tcd.ie> <329c9c40.60942729@news.srv.ualberta.ca> 
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 22:17:14 GMT
Lines: 19

gandhi@bc.sympatico.ca (Rajiv K. Gandhi) writes:

# With that in mind, the lying-troll-bellinger would
# necessarily have to rent space in a warehouse
# to store his alleged collection of books.

Or -

1) He stores them all in Dan Gannon's 25th dimension (this
   one will be appreciated only by us alt.revisionism
   veterans).

2) Like Kin, hero of the great novel "Auto Da-Fe", he stores
   all the books in his head (that is the least probable
   option among the two).


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Nov 28 07:01:36 PST 1996
Article: 82356 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!pumpkin.pangea.ca!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Survivor never saw actual gassing deaths
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:   
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 22:23:03 GMT
Lines: 19

slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura) writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

## Why can't you people read? Are you *all* mentally retarded?

# Here Dr. Keren has afforded us a most egregious example of
# ableism. I don't suppose he cares, though, so long as his
# own pet ox has not been gored.
#
# But that is human nature, after all.

Why did your "revisionist" source claim that there are
no Nazi documents regarding gas chambers, while everyone
who bothered to do just a little reading about the
Holocaust knows that such documents exist?


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Nov 28 07:01:37 PST 1996
Article: 82371 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!uucp3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Another 'Revisionist' Effort Against Free Speech
Message-ID: 
Keywords: false accusations
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <329bba38.9626300@news.micron.net> <57hflg$1556@itssrv1.ucsf.edu>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 22:09:56 GMT
Lines: 33

As expected, no "revisionist" is protesting the attempt by
Matt Giwer to throw me off the net by writing to my ISP.

Remember that Giwer also threatened my ISP that he will
be mail-bombed if I continue to post.

This is not the first time something like this happens.
"Revisionists" have posted that both Dr. Erhard Sanio and
myself deserve to die, because our opinions on history
are different from the "revisionist" version. The
"revisionist" Horst Kleinsorg posted that Dr. Sanio
should be hanged from a meat-hook. The "revisionist"
Matt Giwer made an explicit threat to kill me.

And there was not one word of condemnation from any
other "revisionist".

Not one word of condemnation from any "revisionist"
when the world's "most famous revisionist", Ernst
Zundel, tried to have "Schindler's List" and the
TV series "Holocaust" banned.

Now, I surely don't need the sympathy of these Nazi
scumbags; that's not the issue. The issue is that
these people, who constantly screech and whine about
"free speech", obviously don't give a damn about free
speech for someone who opposes their opinions.

Let us not forget just what we're dealing with here.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Nov 28 08:26:18 PST 1996
Article: 82441 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.axionet.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Survivor never saw actual gassing deaths
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: 
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 07:34:43 GMT
Lines: 81

slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura) writes:

# A concentration camp survivor yesterday admitted he never
# witnessed anybody being gassed to death

He would have to be inside the gas chamber to witness
that, as the SS-men didn't install TV cameras inside
the gas chambers and show the movies around.

He did see SS-men pour the Zyklon into the gas chambers.

# When Christie pointed out that ("Nazi government")
# documents say nothing about gas chambers,

Why can't you people read? Are you *all* mentally retarded?

Letter from SS-Sturmbannfuehrer Bischoff, of the Auschwitz
construction department, to SS General Kammler, January 29, 1943
[The Final Solution: The Attempt to Exterminate the Jews of Europe,
1939-1945 - G. Reitlinger, South Brunswick, T. Yosellof, 1968,
p. 158-159]
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Crematorium No. 2. The completed furnaces have been started up
in the presence of Engineer Prufer from Messers. Topf (of Erfurt).
The planks cannot yet be moved from the ceiling of the mortuary
cellar on account of frost, but this is not important, as the
gassing cellar can be used for that purpose. The ventilation
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
plant has been held up by restrictions on rail transport, but
the installation should be ready by February 20th.

[photo of this document available in
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz/
images/Vergasungskeller.jpg]

Letter from Dr. Erhard Wetzel to Reichskommissar Lohse, October 25, 1941
[Hitler and the Final Solution - G. Fleming, University of California
Press, 1984, p. 70]
------------------------------------------------------------------------
With regard to my letter of 18 October 1941, please be informed that
Oberdiensleiter [Chief Executive Officer] Brack from the Fuehrer's
Chancellory has stated his readiness to assist in the construction of
the necessary accommodations and gassing apparatuses, so they must
                                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
first be constructed. Brack's view is that, since construction of the
apparatuses within the Reich would present far greater difficulties
than on-site production, the most expedient course of action is to
send his people directly to Riga, in particular his chemist Dr.
Kallmeyer, who will take the necessary steps from there.
Oberdiensleiter Brack further points out that the procedure in
question is not without its hazards, and that therefore special safety
precautions are needed. Under these circumstances, I ask you to
contact Oberdiensleiter Brack in the Fuehrer's Chancellory through
your higher SS and Police leader. Please request from him the
dispatching of the chemist Dr. Kallmeyer and any further assistants
that are needed. I might further point out that Sturmbannfuehrer
Eichmann, the adviser on Jewish affairs in the Reich main security
office, is in complete accord with this procedure. According to the
information received here from Sturmbannfuehrer Eichmann, camps for
Jews will be set up in Riga and Minsk, where Jews from the Altreich
[Germany proper] might also be sent. Jews are currently being
evacuated from the Altreich to Lodz and other camps, from which those
fit for work will be transferred to work forces in the east. Given the
present situation, Jews who are not fit for work can be eliminated
without qualms through use of the Brack device. Incidents such as
those that took place during the shootings of Jews in Vilna, according
to a report I have on my desk, can hardly be sanctioned, keeping in
mind that the executions were undertaken openly, and the new
procedures assure that such incidents will no longer be possible. Jews
fit for work, on the other hand, will be transported to work forces in
the east. That the men and women in this latter group must be kept
apart from each other goes without saying. Please keep me informed as
to any further measures you take.

[photo of this document available in
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/w/wetzel.erhard/images/
wetzel-lohse-01.jpg, wetzel-lohse-02.jpg]


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Nov 28 11:46:56 PST 1996
Article: 82474 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.axionet.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Giwer Agrees Nazis Planned to Kill All Jews 'Fit For Work'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 17:30:01 GMT
Lines: 47

As one can see very clearly here, Matt "leading
revisionist" Giwer agrees that the Nazis planned
to kill all Jews classified as "fit for work".

1) What does he think they planned to do with the rest?

2) Since the document in question, the Wannsee Protocols,
   states that the remnant of working Jews that may survive
   the forced labor plan has to be exterminated in order
   to prevent "a germ cell of a new Jewish development",
   doesn't this prove beyond doubt a plan to kill all
   Jews?

If Giwer is reading this, and he's not too drunk, is he
willing to respond?



 From mgiwer@ix.netcom.com Sun Sep 29 06:16:40 EDT 1996
 Article: 124936 of alt.revisionism
 Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
 Subject: Re: the four pieces of physical evidence
 Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 04:44:40 GMT
 Message-ID: <52kv22$o07@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>

# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

## The document states that Jews "fit for work" will all be
## killed, in order to prevent a "germ cell of a new Jewish
## development". This is clearly a genocidal statement, which
## can only be interpreted as an intention to kill all Jews.
##
## The earlier Wetzel-to-Lohse document states that the Jews
## "unfit for work" will be killed with poison gas.
##
## You seem to agree that the Wannsee Protocol states that
## the Jews "fit for work" will be killed?

#       Agreed.  It has nothing to do with 12 million.  Next?




-Danny Keren.





From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Nov 30 11:27:28 PST 1996
Article: 82589 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!uucp3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: He started shouting, and raised his whip
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32a2c86e.3040378@news.spry.com> <57m7mc$a4p@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 11:08:56 GMT
Lines: 30

rblackmore@juno.com writes:

## klewis@awinc.com (Ken Lewis) writes:
## Testimony of Richard Glazer

# More lies from the same people who brought you black
# SS uniforms years after they were discontinued

See previous post. The Ukrainian guards wore black uniform
and were called "the blacks".

# If you can't believe the messengers, how can you believe
# the message?

Very good. This is exactly why we should not believe anything
posted by the lying Nazi apologist, "rblackmore", after he
brazenly lied about Amon Goeth, claiming he was "executed by
the SS for mistreating Jews", while in reality he was tried
and executed by the Poles after the war.

It is incredible to see to what lengths this lying Nazi 
apologist will go, in order to whitewash the crimes of his
Nazi heroes - he does not even hesitate to invent such
incredible lies, which are, after all, easy to refute.

But then, Nazi apologists are usually rather stupid.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Nov 30 11:27:29 PST 1996
Article: 82594 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ingr.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!news.sgi.com!howland.erols.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!uucp6.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Get undressed. You're to be disinfected!
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32a1c60c.2430448@news.spry.com> <57m7ie$a4p@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 11:01:08 GMT
Lines: 32

rblackmore@juno.com writes:
# klewis@awinc.com (Ken Lewis) writes:

## Testimony of Richard Glazer
##  
## And suddenly it started: the yelling and screaming. "All out,
## everybody out!" All those shouts, the uproar, the tumult! "Out!
## Get out! Leave the baggage!" We got out stepping on each other.
## We saw men waering blue armbands. Some carried whips. We saw 
## some SS men, Green uniforms, black uniforms...

# I have news for you.  The black SS uniform was completely
# discontinued at the beginning of the war.  

He's possibly referring to the uniform of the Ukrainian guards,
which were black (which is why these guards were called "the
blacks").

# Lanzmann has obviously seen too many Hollywood movies.

You're obviously an arrogant, lying, and stupid Nazi apologist.

Maybe you want to tell us why you claimed that Amon Goeth was
"executed by the SS" for mistreating Jews, while in reality
he was tried and executed for his crimes by the Poles, after
the war?

What a stupid, lying Nazi-apologist you are...


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Nov 30 11:27:30 PST 1996
Article: 82704 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!newsfeed.luth.se!news.luth.se!newsfeed.sunet.se!news00.sunet.se!sunic!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!uucp6.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: another minor problem
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <329c8f9e.31283577@news.gte.net>   <329d9142.95812378@news.gte.net>
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 07:24:44 GMT
Lines: 36

PS:

rbs@arches.ogre (RBS) [senile Nazi coward afraid to post under his
own name] wrote to me:

## I know multiplication is beyond you but if you ask a friend to
## go through his numbers for you, you will find he reported some
## three million Hungarian Jews being shipped to Auschwitz.

To which I responded:

# This may be true. But that is not the opinion of any historian
# I know of. 

After posting this, I saw Mike Stein's article which indicates
that the senile, unemployed Nazi drunkard from Tampa, FL, reached
the three million figure because (like other "revisionist
scholars"), he cannot handle basic arithmetic. I didn't know
that, because I didn't have access to the original article. 

Is it any wonder the senile Nazi drunkard can't find a job? In
addition to his charming personality, and in addition to being
a Nazi pig, he is also mentally retarded.

All of which does not prevent him from being a "leading revisionist
scholar", of course.


-Danny Keren.

 ---
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Nov 30 11:27:30 PST 1996
Article: 82706 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!dciteleport.com!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!199.172.62.14!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Gassing arithmetic
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <329d8aa8.94225485@news.gte.net>
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 07:29:55 GMT
Lines: 19

rbs@arches.ogre (RBS) [senile Nazi drunkard afraid to post under
his own name] writes:

# Out of the 2.5 (two and a half) million jews gassed (from the
# latest official holocaust estimates) 3 (three) million of them were
# Hungarian Jews and 4 (four) million of them were Polish Jews.  

No historian claims that 3 million Hungarian Jews were gassed,
and no historian claims that 4 million Polish Jews were gassed.

On the whole, about 3 million Polish Jews were murdered, but
not all of them in the death camps; many starved to death in
the ghettos or were shot. 400,000 Hungarian Jews were murdered,
most of them in Auschwitz-Birkenau.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Nov 30 11:27:31 PST 1996
Article: 82715 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!wolverine.hq.cic.net!news.worldpath.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!uucp3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Photograph: Medical 'Experiments' in NATZWEILER (Strasbourg)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 11:11:15 GMT
Lines: 16

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/natzweiler/images

MedExp03.jpg:

The horror in Natzweiler (Strasbourg): the dissected 
corpses of victims used for Dr. Hirt's "anthropological 
research".


See photographs of relevant documents in
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/h/hirt.august/images

(Translation to be added soon).


-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Nov 30 11:27:32 PST 1996
Article: 82721 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!199.172.62.14!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: another minor problem
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <329c8f9e.31283577@news.gte.net> 
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 22:57:58 GMT
Lines: 34

RBS@arches.ogre [Nazi coward afraid to post under
his own name] wrote:

# Lets see, even after we have the gassed Jews at A-B
# down under a million (be grateful for small progress)
#  we still have millions of Jews having been shipped
# to A-B but not gassed there.

No, we don't. You're simply hallucinating.

# Ah, oh, the pain.  Now all of those stories of the
# hundreds of thousands of jews from all over easter
# europe that for decades added up to millions, suddenly
# WERE NOT SHIPPED to A-B in the first place.

No one claimed they ever were. The rest of the Jewish
victims died in the other death camps (such as Treblinka),
in the Einsatzgruppen massacres in Nazi-occupied USSR,
and in numerous smaller camps and ghettos.

Are you familiar with "leading revisionist" Matt Giwer,
and his arguments (one of which is quoted below)? You
sure sound like him.


-Danny Keren.

 ---
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.




From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Nov 30 11:27:33 PST 1996
Article: 82723 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!hookup!nic.ott.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!solace!news.stealth.net!news.idt.net!feed1.news.erols.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!uucp1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Goebbels Talks About the Jews, I
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <32a13c89.8156631@news.redshift.com> <32b7d0e5.9113692@personalnews.germany.eu.net> <57k0fe$4h9$5@gruvel.une.edu.au>
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 07:43:40 GMT
Lines: 17

The Goebbels [Reich propaganda Minister] diaries, March 27, 1942: 
[The Goebbels Diaries 1942-1943 - L.P. Lochner, Doubleday & Co., 1948, 
p. 147-148]
-----------------------------------------------------------
Beginning with Lublin, the Jews in the General Government 
[Nazi occupied Poland] are now being evacuated eastward. The procedure 
is a pretty barbaric one and not to be described here more definitely. 
Not much will remain of the Jews. On the whole it can be said that about 
60 per cent of them will have to be liquidated whereas only 40 per cent 
can be used for forced labor.
 

 
 
-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Dec  1 16:05:40 PST 1996
Article: 82895 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!mr.net!news-out.microserve.net!news-in.microserve.net!news.sgi.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!uucp3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: another minor problem
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <329c8f9e.31283577@news.gte.net>   <329d9142.95812378@news.gte.net>
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 07:14:36 GMT
Lines: 59

rbs@arches.ogre (RBS) [senile Nazi coward afraid to post under his
own name] writes to me:

# You posted the letter written by Dov Wiessmandel where he
# gave the numbers and rates of jews being shipped in from Hungary.

I didn't post anything like that, senile Nazi. If you claim
I did, post my article. Maybe you should lay off the cheap
wine, senile Nazi drunkard?

# I know multiplication is beyond you but if you ask a friend to
# go through his numbers for you, you will find he reported some
# three million Hungarian Jews being shipped to Auschwitz.

This may be true. But that is not the opinion of any historian
I know of. You're expecting a man who had no access to any
document, who was in hiding, to give accurate numbers. This
is not realistic. That is the job of the historians: to collect
and fuse all these individual reports, and to use documents
and statistics to determine the numbers. A single person, even
though he was a participant in these events, simply cannot
do that. Certainly not a person who had no access to documents
and statistics.

# If you wish to talk EG, we are still looking for around 10,000 (ten
# thousand) mass graves that hold their bodies.  And there is still no
# sign of even a small fraction of that number. 

Some of the mass graves were discovered. A few years ago, a team
of Australian experts went to look for a certain mass grave, as
part of an investigation in the trial of a suspected war criminal
who lived in Australia. They did find the grave; a long article
about it was posted here. Other graves can possibly be found.

However, on the whole, it can be said that there is no hope in
finding all the corpses of the victims of a given mass murder.
One can try and look for the 10 million corpses of Stalin's
persecutions. He will simply not find them.

# But there is no need for shipping them to shoot them and in fact
# there are no reports of shipping just to shoot.

Yes there are; many German and Austrian Jews were deported to
the Nazi-occupied USSR and shot there.

But how would a senile Nazi like you know that? Or anything
else, for that matter?


-Danny Keren.


 ---
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.




From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Dec  1 16:05:40 PST 1996
Article: 82921 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: 'The Jews from two of these transports were gassed'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <5742hn$kmh@itssrv1.ucsf.edu> <57nm5q$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 21:52:40 GMT
Lines: 50

SS-Untersturmfuehrer Oberhauser on the death camp at Belzec
[Quoted in 'The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The 
Free Press, NY, 1988., p. 228-230]
----------------------------------------------------------------
The camp of Belzec was situated north-east of the Tomaszo'w to Lemberg
[Lvov] road beyond the village of Belzec. As the camp needed a siding
for the arriving transports the camp was built about 400 meters from
Belzec station. The camp itself was divided into two sections: section
1 and section 2. The siding led directly from Belzec station into
section 2 of the camp, in which the undressing barracks as well as the
gas installations and the burial field were situated...

The gassing of Jews which took place in Belzec camp up till 1 August
1942 can be divided into two phases. During the first series of
experiments there were two to three transports consisting of four to
six freight cars each holding twenty to forty persons. On the average
150 Jews were delivered and killed per transport. At that stage the
gassings were not yet part of a systematic eradication action but were
carried out to test and study closely the camp's capacity and the
technical problems involved in carrying out a gassing...

At the beginning of May 1942 SS-Oberfuehrer Brack from the Fuehrer's
chancellery suddenly came to Lublin. With Globocnik he discussed
resuming the extermination of the Jews. Globocnik said he had too few
people to carry out this programme. Brack stated that the euthanasia
programme had stopped and that the people from T4 would from now on be
detailed to him on a regular basis so that the decisions taken at the
Wannsee conference could be implemented. As it appeared that it would
not be possible for the Einsatzgruppen to clear individual areas of
Jews and the people in the large ghettos of Warsaw and Lemberg by
shooting them, the decision had been taken to set up two further
extermination camps which would be ready by 1 August 1942, namely
Treblinka and Sobibor. The large-scale extermination programme 
[Vernichtungsaktion] was due to start on 1 August 1942.

About a week after Brack had come to Globocnik, Wirth and his staff
returned to Belzec. The second series of experiments went on until
1 August 1942. During this period a total of five to six transports
(as far as I am aware) consisting of five to seven freight cars
containing thirty to forty people came to Belzec. The Jews from two
of these transports were gassed in the small chamber, but then Wirth
had the gas huts pulled down and built a massive new building with a 
much larger capacity. It was here that the Jews from the rest of the
transport were gassed.

During the first experiments and the first set of transports in the
second series of experiments bottled gas was still used for gassing;
however, for the last transports of the second series of experiments
the Jews were killed with the exhaust gases from a tank or lorry
engine which was operated by Hackenholt.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Dec  1 16:05:41 PST 1996
Article: 82922 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: clearing up some confusion on CO poisoning
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32a02079.60452212@news.gte.net>
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 22:26:34 GMT
Lines: 34

PJO@is.back (Leprechan) writes:

# If these chambers are pressurized to increase the
# amount of carbon monoxide then that would be a
# backpressure to the engines and shut them down as
# engines can not run with such backpressure.

The oft-quoted letter from Just to Rauff indeed suggests
a simple mechanism to release the extra pressure caused
by the exhaust during the gassing.

# In addition, a diesel engine only puts out about one tenth
# the amount of carbon monoxide as a gasoline engine.

The paper "The Toxicity of Fumes from a Diesel Engine Under
Four Different Running Conditions", by Pattle et al., British
Journal of Industrial Medicine, 1957, Vol 14, p.  47-55,
details a long series of experiments in which animals were
exposed to the exhaust of a diesel engine inside a chamber.
The animals died; death was faster when the air intake was
restricted, as this results in more CO in the exhaust.

Also, let us note that a paper in the Trans. of the ASME, vol.
63, 1941, p. 97-105 (Holtz & Elliot, "The Significance of Diesel
Exhaust Gas Analysis"), mentions that by tuning diesel engines
to a high fuel-air ratio, an exhaust was obtained which contained
6 percent CO - much higher than the lethal concentration.

How many times do we have to point this out? Pardon my
French, but can't you stupid Nazi bastards read?


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Dec  1 16:05:42 PST 1996
Article: 82926 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Frank Talks About the Jews, II
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <57dsl8$mvp$1@gruvel.une.edu.au> <57nnt5$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 21:22:18 GMT
Lines: 25

Speech by Frank [Governor of occupied Poland], December 16 1941
[Documents on the Holocaust - Edited by Y. Arad, Y. Gutman, A. Margaliot,
NY, Ktav Pub. House in Association with Yad-Vashem, 1981, p. 247, Nazi 
Conspiracy and Aggression - Washington, U.S Govt. Print. 
Off., 1946 Vol. II p. 634]
---------------------------------------------------------------
One way or another -- I will tell you quite openly -- we must finish 
off the Jews. The Fuehrer put it into words once: should united Jewry
again succeed in setting off a world war, then the blood sacrifice
shall not be made only by the peoples driven into war, but then the
Jew of Europe will have met his end....
 
But what should be done with the Jews? Can you believe that they will
be accommodated in settlements in the Ostland? In Berlin we were told:
why are you making all this trouble? We don't want them either, not in
Ostland nor in the Reichskommissariat; liquidate them yourselves!
Gentlemen, I must ask you to steel yourselves against all
considerations of compassion. We must destroy the Jews wherever we
find them, and wherever it is at all possible, in order to maintain
the whole structure of the Reich...
 



-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Dec  1 16:05:43 PST 1996
Article: 82930 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Photographs from BUCHENWALD Camp
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <57ncqt$3ed@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 20:30:32 GMT
Lines: 20

rblackmore@juno.com writes:

## http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/buchenwald/images
##
## shrunken.jpg:
## The shrunken head of an inmate.

# This "shrunken head" was obtained from a museum in
# South America.

I guess our lying Nazi apologist can tell us which
museum this was, and supply a proof for his assertion?

Or explain the correspondence between Nazi officials posted
here, which mentions the shrunken heads "manufactured" in
the camp?


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Dec  1 16:05:44 PST 1996
Article: 82995 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Twelve Questions Matt Giwer won't Answer (Month 11)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <56uksf$778@viper.txdirect.net>  <57kaiu$a3d@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <329dd003.111877007@news.gte.net>
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 07:41:11 GMT
Lines: 32

Leprechan@is.back (PJO) writes:

# Nice dodge but very foolish.  Please explain the following...
#
# On my way back to Toronto, I was told by one of my office
# associates that Harry Abrams, the Jewish hyper-activist of B'nai
# Brith, Victoria, had sent a threatening type e-mail, demanding
# that, in the future, if I wanted to reach Ken McVay, I should
# only contact him (!) or the R.C.M.P. (!!)

Let's be very careful here. This was written, as I recall, by
the world's "most well-known revisionist", Ernst Zundel, right?

But Zundel also claims that the Nazi leadership built "secret
UFO's", and used them to fly into the inner earth.

The poor, crazy fellow actually claimed that he met some of
the "German scientists" who planned and built these "UFO's"...

See 

http://www.almanac.bc.ca/hweb/people/z/zundel-ernst/flying-saucers/

for more details, as well as scans of fliers authored by Zundel.
Truly amusing stuff. He even has a photograph allegedly taken
inside a "German UFO control bunker" (!!).

So, let's be careful when evaluating what this madman says, ok?


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Dec  1 16:05:45 PST 1996
Article: 83100 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: He started shouting, and raised his whip
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <57nace$3ed@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 19:14:04 GMT
Lines: 41

rblackmore@juno.com writes:

# By the way, I already dealt with the Goeth business
# in another post.

Look at your own post... you stupid, lying Nazi.

 Subject:      Re: Another Holocaust Peculiarity
 From:         rblackmore@juno.com
 Date:         1996/10/21
 Message-Id:   <54eopf$d8c@juliana.sprynet.com>

 # Hmmmm.  Not at all, the SS themselves executed Goeth,
 # Koch, and other camp commanders who abused the prisoners
 # under their charge.



This is what you wrote, stupid Nazi. "the SS themselves
executed Goeth", while he was actually tried and executed
by the Poles after the war.

BTW, stupid Nazi liar: who are the "other camp commanders"
you referred to, except Koch and Goeth?

# I received the info from a Jewish researcher.

The stupid, lying Nazi now blames a mysterious "Jewish
researcher" for the lies he posted. Just who is that
"Jewish researcher"? David Cole, maybe? Do tell us.

# And your hero Glazer never mentions Ukrainian SS
# guards.  Only SS in Green and Black uniforms.

No, lying Nazi. Learn to read. According to what was
quoted, he said he saw SS-men AND black uniforms AND
green uniforms.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Dec  1 16:05:46 PST 1996
Article: 83107 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Matt Giwer Uses Abuse and Threats in His War Against Free Speech
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 19:25:00 GMT
Lines: 34

On Nov 18 1996, "leading revisionist scholar", Matt
Giwer, sent the following e-mail to my ISP, demanding 
to limit my postings.

Note also the threat to mailbomb my ISP if he doesn't
agree to meet this demand.



# Would you please ask your user to stop spamming the 
# alt.revisionism conference with holocaust material?  
# It would be much appreciated.  Although this is clearly 
# an unmoderated conference, his spams are making it unusable
# for its intended purpose.  This is but one of many examples.  
#
# This has gone on for over a year now since I first started 
# objecting to his spamming.  I have previously limited it to 
# public posting in the newsgroup.  At this point I know that 
# the patience of many of the users of the conference are losing 
# patience with his spamming and have suggested returning his 
# spams to his provider also.  
#
# Why not save yourself some hassle and try to slow him down?  
# Just an attempt to help out here.  
#
#       Thank you for your time.  
#
# [copy of one of my articles deleted]




-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Dec  1 16:05:47 PST 1996
Article: 83152 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: No SS Man Was Ever Punished?
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <57o4mm$hc@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 21:20:54 GMT
Lines: 41

Since the Nazi apologist, posting under the "rblackmore"
alias, keeps claiming that the SS had a policy to "punish
its members who mistreated Jews", I will once again post
an excerpt from the best source possible: the trial of
SS-man Max Taubner in an SS-court.

Maybe the lame Nazi apologist will bother to read this
verdict, before posting his lies yet again? To make it easy
for him, I have underlined the most important and relevant
portions.

Excerpt from Verdict of the SS Court in Munich, against
SS-Untersturmfuehrer Max Taubner, 24 of May 1943
['The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The Free
Press, NY, 1988, p, 196-207]
--------------------------------------------------------------
1. The accused shall not be punished because of the actions
against the Jews as such. The Jews have to be exterminated
                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
and none of the Jews that were killed is any great loss.
Although the accused should have recognized that the
extermination of the Jews was the duty of Kommandos which were
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
set up especially for this purpose, he should be excused for
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
considering himself to have the authority to take part in the
extermination of Jewry himself.



What can be more clear than this, I don't know.

An SS-court, stating that the Jews "have to be exterminated",
and that certain Kommandos have been assigned to this "task".

And yet, this crazed Nazi, "rblackmore", tells us that the SS
had a policy of punishing its members who killed Jews.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Dec  1 16:05:47 PST 1996
Article: 83166 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Chief French Rabbi on War & Christians
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <3295c749.3576441@news.zippo.com> <57nngb$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 22:04:05 GMT
Lines: 26

rblackmore@juno.com writes:

# we also may have seen forgeries with Himmler's
# alleged Posen speech,

"Forgeries"? Amazing. The speech was recorded. Some
excerpts are in Nizkor's ftp site.

"Leading revisionists", such as Irving and Faurisson,
agree that the speech is authentic. Faurisson claims
"Himmler indulged in a bit of braggadocio" when he said
such things. Irving, as I recall, said something to the
affect of "Himmler didn't say which Jews were to be killed",
or something of that sort (I recall Mr. Jamie McCarthy
quoted Irving on this, so I'm mailing him a copy of this
article).

It seems that our crazed "revisionists" have realized such
explanations are preposterous, and have therefore decided
to "revise" themselves, and to claim the speech to be a
forgery. The next stage is, no doubt, to claim Himmler
never existed.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Dec  1 16:05:48 PST 1996
Article: 83174 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Good Old Days-the "Death Dealer"
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <57o6gq$hc@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 22:38:01 GMT
Lines: 20

rblackmore@juno.com writes:

# Conclusion:  It is clear that this was an internal
# Lithuanian affair, in spite of the allegation that the
# Security Police was whipping the populace up against
# the jews and the Communists.

True, to some extent. The report by SS-Standartenfuehrer
Jager, about the mass murder of Jews by Einsatzkommndo
3, does mention that four thousand Jews were murdered
during pogroms "prior to EK 3 taking over security police
duties". It also mentions that, during July-November 1941,
the men of EK 3 murdered over 130,000 Jews.

I hope to soon add a scan of Jager's report to the Nizkor
ftp site.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Dec  1 16:05:49 PST 1996
Article: 83182 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: 'However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <57b1dl$1ag@panix2.panix.com> <57nien$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 21:46:35 GMT
Lines: 38

rblackmore@juno.com writes:

# In any case, why accept an allegation of gas chambers
# when there is absolutely no forensic evidence to prove
# the same?

Incredible. Even the "revisionists" agree that there are
still cyanide compounds on the walls of the gas chambers
in Auschwitz-Birkenau.

Now, do tell us: why accept an allegation of the bombing
of Dresden when there is absolutely no forensic evidence
to prove the same?

None. Zero. Zilch. Nada.

Not one bit of forensic evidence that the city was bombed,
not one corpse, nothing.

According to the "standards" of "Holocaust revisionists",
the city was never bombed.

# Why don't we examine the death rate of germans in
# Russian POW camps. Take the captured at Stalingrad,
# for example.  Out of 90,000 prisoners taken, only
# 5,000 ever returned home.

According to "revisionist standards", if you're going
to accuse the Soviets of murdering the remaining
85,000, you have to show us their corpses.

Don't blame me, nazi-boy. I'm only applying "revisionist
standards for verifying historical events". Since you're
a "revisionist", you have no right to complain.


-Danny Keren.

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