From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug 1 06:10:24 PDT 1996 Article: 54747 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!portc01.blue.aol.com!chi-news.cic.net!cs.utexas.edu!newshost.convex.com!newsgate.duke.edu!zombie.ncsc.mil!nntp.coast.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Wetzel Writes Lohse About The 'Gassing Apparatuses' Message-ID:Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4tma1a$vpa@Vir.com> Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 22:07:24 GMT Lines: 33 Jean-Francois Beaulieu writes: [About the "gassing apparatuses" letter from Dr. Wetzel to Lohse] # Wetzel wasn't accused at any of the Nuremberg trials and the # timid attempts to judge him didn't get any results: the trials # never materialized. He was tried by the Germans. Gerald Fleming writes about it in "Hitler and the Final Solution". He never denied, of course, writing the letter. # Strange no? Duh. # Do you have any evidence that this letter was ever sent? Let me guess - you're going to say he wrote it because of his "morbid sense of humor"? This is what "leading revisionist scholar", Matt Giwer, wrote about the mention of "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar" in the Birkenau crematoriums. # Too bad that you hadn't a document for which the guy # wasn't capture. Too bad for you that you can only make very stupid arguments. -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug 1 06:10:25 PDT 1996 Article: 54748 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.alt.net!news1.alt.net!news.u.washington.edu!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: SS-Standartenfuehrer Jager Writes a Report Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4tms35$l08@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 21:16:17 GMT Lines: 20 ehrlich606@aol.com (Ehrlich606) writes: # 2) This implies a process that is gathering momentum as it # goes along. It also implies a process of brutalization for # the shooters. Certainly. One morbidly fascinating phenomena is that, during the initial Einsatzgruppen massacres, you see here and there attempts to give some "rational" reason for them. For instance, some state that Jews were shot because they were a health risk. # Documents of this sort are sufficient proof of the Jewish # genocide. But documents like this do not reference gas chambers. No; but others do. -Danny keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug 1 06:10:26 PDT 1996 Article: 54755 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Photographs from BELSEN Camp Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4to6pt$4n9@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 05:17:29 GMT Lines: 35 The following photos are in http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?camps/bergen-belsen/images They are all scanned from "The Belsen Trial" - Edited by R. Phillips, William Hodge and Company, 1949. Belsen01.jpg: A Mass grave in Belsen camp. Belsen02.jpg: A bulldozer being used to bury corpses in Belsen. Belsen03.jpg: Emaciated corpses in Belsen. Belsen04.jpg: Plump, overweight SS-women bury skeletal corpses in Belsen. Belsen05.jpg: The corpse of a child is thrown into a mass grave in Belsen. SS-Women.jpg: SS-women from Belsen camp. The following photos, of some of the SS staff in Belsen (and before that, in Auschwitz-Birkenau) are in: http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/b/bormann.juana/images/ Bormann.jpg: Juana Bormann, murderous SS-woman (served in Auschwitz and Belsen). http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/h/hoessler.franz/images/ Hoessler.jpg: SS-officer Franz Hoessler in front of a truckload of corpses in Belsen. http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/k/kramer.joseph/images/ Kramer.jpg: Joseph Kramer, who served as commandant of Auschwitz II (Birkenau) and later Belsen. -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug 1 06:10:26 PDT 1996 Article: 54800 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!news.math.psu.edu!news.iag.net!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Tom Moran's Forgery Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 22:24:43 GMT Lines: 130 This is the forgery posted to alt.revisionism by "revisionist" Tom Moran. Note that Moran quotes the original testimony, while also inserting questions that were not asked and answers which were not given - in exactly the same format as in the original article. >From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Mar 5 16:06:27 EST 1996 Article: 73393 of alt.revisionism Xref: world alt.revisionism:73393 Path: world!uunet!in2.uu.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Auschwitz Engineers, I Date: Sun, 03 Mar 1996 16:33:37 GMT Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc. Lines: 105 Message-ID: <3139c63e.6801197@news.pacificnet.net> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: pm1-0.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 Status: R dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote: > >Kurt Prufer, senior engineer of Topf and Sohne, testifying in Erfurt, >Germany, March 5, 1946 >[Quoted from the interrogation transcripts by Prof. Gerald Fleming >from the University of Surrey, in an NYT article, July 18 1993] >-------------------------------------------------------------------- >Q. Who apart from you participated in the construction of the furnaces? > >A. From 1941-2, I constructed the furnaces. The technical drawings were > done by Mr. Keller. The ventilation systems of the "Kremas" > [crematoriums] were constructed by senior engineer Karl Schultze. > >Q. How often and with what aim did you visit Auschwitz? > >A. Five times. The first time at the beginning of 1943, to receive orders > of the SS Command where the Kremas were to be built. The second time in > spring 1943 to inspect the building site. The third time was in autumn > 1943 to inspect a fault in the construction of a Krema chimney. The > forth time at the beginning of 1944, to inspect the repaired chimney. the > fifth time in September-October 1944, when I visited Auschwitz with the > intended relocation [from Auschwitz] of the crematoriums, since the > front was getting nearer. The crematoriums were not relocated, because > there were not enough workers. Q. When you say "a krema" which one exactly? A. Well I don't know which one exactly? It could have been II, III, IV or V. Q. When you say there weren't enough workers, are you saying you couldn't have gotten 100 or even 200 men, women and children out of the hundred thousand to dismantle the building. A. Well, ah, we ah ... Q. When you say "relocated" do you mean take the brick buildings apart piece by piece and rebuild them else where? A. Yes. Q. And where was the alternate site to be located? A. Well, since the front was getting closer, we were figuring on moving it further west, maybe even moving the whole operation to a ship in the North Sea. >Q. Were you the sole Topf engineer in Auschwitz in spring 1943? > >A. No, [senior engineer Karl] Schultze was with me in Auschwitz at the time. > I saw personally about 60 corpses of women and men of different ages, > which were being prepared for incineration. That was at 10 in the > morning. I witnessed the incineration of six corpses and and came to the > conclusion that the furnaces were working well. > >Q. Did you see a gas chamber next to the crematoriums? > >A. Yes, I did see one next to the crematorium. Between the gas chamber and > the crematorium there was a connecting structure. Q. By "connecting structure" do you mean they were not all one in the same? A. Well, yes. Q. And which Krema was this? A. Well I'm not sure. It could have been II,III, IV or V. > >Q. Did you know that in the gas chamber and in the crematoriums there took > place the liquidation of innocent human beings? > >A. I have known since spring 1943 that innocent human beings were being > liquidated in Auschwitz gas chambers and that their corpses were > subsequently incinerated in the crematoriums. > >Q. Who is the designer of the ventilation systems for the gas chambers? > >A. Schultze was the designer of the ventilation systems in the gas chambers; > and he installed them. > >Q. Why was the brick lining of the muffles so quickly damaged? > >A. The bricks were damaged after six months because the strain on the > furnaces was colossal. Q. So I take it you came up with a good solution to this failure since you had no more problems. Was this problem only at teh one particular Krema, due to some mistake at teat Krema alone, or did you have trouble with the rest? A. No. It was just this one. Evidentally the mortar wasn't mixed right. > > > > >-Danny Keren. > >-- >Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. > >-Lu Xun. From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug 1 06:27:29 PDT 1996 Article: 54806 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!inter2.interstice.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!ames!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Himmler Tries to Keep the 'German Blood' Clean Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 07:53:58 GMT Lines: 26 Extract from Himmler's address to party comrades, September 7 1940 [Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military Tribunals - Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., Vol. IV, p. 1140] ------------------------------------------------------------------ If any Pole has any sexual dealing with a German woman, and by this I mean sexual intercourse, then the man will be hanged right in front of his camp. Then the others will not do it. Besides, provisions will be made that a sufficient number of Polish women and girls will come along as well so that a necessity of this kind is out of the question. The women will be brought before the courts without mercy, and where the facts are not sufficiently proved - such borderline cases always happen - they will be sent to a concentration camp. This we must do, unless these one million Poles and those hundreds of thousands of workers of alien blood are to inflict untold damage on the German blood. Philosophizing is of no avail in this case. It would be better if we did not have them at all - we all know that - but we need them. -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug 1 06:27:31 PDT 1996 Article: 54808 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.ac.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: What is, and what ain't Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <31f78739.5257640@news.pacificnet.net> <31fe1d43.382058@news.pacificnet.net> <31ff7139.6646144@news.pacificnet.net> Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 21:22:12 GMT Lines: 26 tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes: # Why don't you just tell us about any flue system, Mr.Keren, # Professor Keren, former Professor Keren and/or former # impersonating Professor Keren? Are you suggesting I am an "impersonating Professor"? You're making a serious accusation here, which may well be criminal libel. Think about it. I know you have a big inferiority complex, which makes you throw these childish, infantile insults at me. But do try to control yourself, you senile twit. # "What floor?" Yes, what floor, you poor, mentally retarded clown. What floor. What floor do you claim the flues ran underneath? Can you answer a simple question? -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug 1 16:43:23 PDT 1996 Article: 54844 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: SS-Hauptsturmfuehrer Truehe Runs Into Technical Difficulties Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 05:45:08 GMT Lines: 17 Letter from SS-Hauptsturmfuehrer Truehe to Reich security office [Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression - Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1946, Vol. I, p. 1001] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ A transport of Jews, which has to be treated in a special way, arrives weekly at the office of the commandant of the Security Police and the Security Service of White Ruthenia. The three S-vans which are there are not sufficient for that purpose. I request assignment of another S-van (five tons). At the same time I request the shipment of twenty gas hoses for the three S-vans on hand since the ones on hand are leaky already. -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug 1 16:43:24 PDT 1996 Article: 54857 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!inter2.interstice.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!nntp04.primenet.com!news.shkoo.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Theodor Malzmueller Testifies About Chelmno Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 05:41:40 GMT Lines: 40 SS-man Theodor Malzmueller on the Chelmno extermination camp [Quoted in 'The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The Free Press, NY, 1988., p. 217-219] ----------------------------------------------------------------- When we arrived we had to report to the camp commandant, SS-Hauptsturmfuehrer Bothmann. The SS-Haupsturmfuehrer addressed us in his living quarters, in the presence of SS-Untersturmfuehrer Albert Plate. He explained that we had been dedicated to the Kulmhof [Chelmno] extermination camp as guards and added that in this camp the plague boils of humanity, the Jews, were exterminated. We were to keep quiet about everything we saw or heard, otherwise we would have to reckon with our families' imprisonment and the death penalty... The extermination camp was made up of the so-called "castle" and the camp in the woods. The castle was a fairly large stone building at the edge of the village of Kulmhof. It was there that the Jews who had been transported by lorry or railway were first brought... When a lorry arrived the following members of the SS-Sonderkommando addresses the Jews: (1) camp commandant Bothmann, (2) Untersturmfuehrer Albert Plate from North Germany, (3) Polizei-Meister Willy Lenz from Silesia, (4) Polizei-Meister Alois Haeberle from Wuerttenberg. They explained to the Jews that they would first of all be given a bath and deloused in Kulmhof and then sent to Germany to work. The Jews then went inside the castle. There they had to get undressed. After this they were sent through a passage-way on to a ramp to the castle yard where the so-called "gas-van" was parked. The back door of the van would be open. The Jews were made to get inside the van. This job was done by three Poles, who I believe were sentenced to death. The Poles hit the Jews with whips if they did not get into the gas vans fast enough. When all the Jews were inside the door was bolted. The driver then switched on the engine, crawled under the van and connected a pipe from the exhaust to the inside of the van. The exhaust fumes now poured into the inside of the truck so that the people inside were suffocated... -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug 1 16:43:25 PDT 1996 Article: 54903 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!overload.lbl.gov!agate!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: 'Bathing Installations For Special Actions' Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 22:41:01 GMT Lines: 30 Can someone please translate the following (see also http://www.nizkor.org/ Files ftp.cgi?people/p/prufer.kurt/images/Prufer1.jpg ftp.cgi?people/p/prufer.kurt/images/Prufer2.jpg full translation of these will be greatly appreciated). "Bezuglich Aufstellung von je 2 Dreimuffelofen bei den 'Badeanstalten fur Sonderaktionen' wurde von Ing. Prufer". This is one document which, I'm sure, our "revisionist scholars" will really stretch their imagination to explain. Expect some true flashes of "revisionist" brilliancy, which will put Giwer's previous record [*] to shame. [*] In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar" in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents. -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 3 07:03:19 PDT 1996 Article: 54918 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!psgrain!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: 'Subject: Solution of the Jewish question' Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 05:52:39 GMT Lines: 30 Possibly, the first document which explicitly mentions an extermination plan: Letter from Hoppner, higher SS and Police leader in the Warthegau, to SS-Obersturmbannfuehrer Eichmann, July 16 1941 [Documents of Destruction - R. Hilberg, Quadrangle Books, Chicago, 1971, p. 87] ------------------------------------------------------------------- Enclosed is a memorandum on the results of various discussions held locally in the office of the Reich Governor... Subject: Solution of the Jewish question . . 4) This winter there is a danger that not all of the Jews can be fed anymore. One might weigh honestly, if the most humane solution might not be to finish off those of the Jews who are not employable by means of some quick-working device. At any rate, that would be more pleasant than to let them starve to death. 5) For the rest, the proposal was made that in this camp all the Jewish women, from whom one could still expect children, should be sterilized so that the Jewish problem may actually be solved completely with this generation. -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 3 07:03:20 PDT 1996 Article: 54942 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: conflicting numbers Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4tlbh4$brl@news.icanect.net> Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 22:50:19 GMT Lines: 19 Right, these numbers conflict. The first two are certainly overestimates. But, we have estimates for the number of Dresden victims starting at 25,000 and going up to 500,000. We have estimates of the number of victims of Stalin's persecutions ranging from 0.5 million to 50 million. So, what in earth are we going to do? Do tell us, "revisionist scholars", what to do when confronted with conflicting numbers. -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 3 07:03:20 PDT 1996 Article: 54961 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!bug.rahul.net!rahul.net!a2i!samba.rahul.net!rahul.net!a2i!news.walltech.com!newsfeed1.aimnet.com!nntp04.primenet.com!news.shkoo.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp.coast.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Tom Moran's Forgery Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <32002e88.3393156@news.pacificnet.net> Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 20:30:51 GMT Lines: 27 Liar and forger Tom Moran, tm@pacificnet.net, writes: # Of course if it was an attempt at a "forgery" Moran # would have taken out the markers for the original text # to make it look like it was all one thing. That would probably be a criminal deed - because it would have made it seem as I posted something which I didn't; guess Moran wasn't ready to go that far. The fact is that Moran added forged Q&A's to the original ones, in exactly the same format, *without* specifying that these are his additions. # Poor Mr.Keren, he's so desperate. The poor one is Tom Moran, who is a cheap liar and forger. -Danny Keren. -- Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. -Lu Xun. From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 3 07:03:21 PDT 1996 Article: 54970 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!agate!ames!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Slithery Nizkor/Keren stuff Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <3200df2d.7152553@news.pacificnet.net> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 00:16:29 GMT Lines: 45 tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes: [Yet again repeating the old nonsense about Zyklon-B] Shrug. Either this person is mentally retarded, or he's trolling. I can only respond as I did in the past. It's an FAQ now, I guess. But it has been explained to you, over and over again, that what you write above is a lie. The HCN evaporates much faster than what you claim. You admit you have no technical source to support your claims re the evaporation rate; you *were* presented with technical material, written by Dr. Gerhard Peters and others, which proves you're lying. What do you hope to accomplish, by reposting your lies over and over again? A few days ago, you wrote about the outgassing time of HCN from Zyklon: # Maybe it is six hours. Maybe it could be days or even months. You simply have no idea what you're talking about. Look at the above. A range given from "six hours" to "months". Moreover, if there was some HCN residue in the Zyklon when the victims died, it was rather easy to handle: the sonderkommando used gas masks in some of the gas chambers, while in others a very simple mechanism was used, which allowed to extract the Zyklon from the chambers after the victims died, thus solving the alleged "problem" of dealing with the HCN the Zyklon may have continued to release. Can you *really* not understand all this? After so many times? -Danny Keren. -- Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. -Lu Xun. From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 3 07:03:22 PDT 1996 Article: 55003 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.reed.edu!camelot.ccs.neu.edu!nntp.neu.edu!grapevine.lcs.mit.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp.coast.net!zombie.ncsc.mil!newsgate.duke.edu!agate!ames!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: What is, and what ain't Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <31f78739.5257640@news.pacificnet.net> <31fcce16.2494748@news.pacificnet.net> <4tm6fi$h4p@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 08:32:29 GMT Lines: 33 mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes: # And of course, those "well designed" gas chambers were # missing a great source of heat free heat (for the cost # of a thermostat, a little ductwork and a fan) to keep # them warm all year round and make it better for HCN. And, of course, the paper by Dr. Peters and Rasch clearly states that the HCN evaporates from the Zyklon rather quickly even at very low temperatures - minus 10 Celsius and even lower. http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz/cyanide/zyklon/images peters-rasch-132.jpg (ref) peters-rasch-133.jpg (ref) peters-rasch-134.jpg (ref) peters-rasch-135.jpg (ref) peters-rasch-136.jpg (ref) peters-rasch-137.jpg (ref) But remember, it was Matt Giwer who claimed none would evaporate at 20 Celsius. One of the more incredible statements from the great engineer. -Danny Keren. -- Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. -Lu Xun. From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 3 07:03:22 PDT 1996 Article: 55010 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.reed.edu!camelot.ccs.neu.edu!news.dfci.harvard.edu!oitnews.harvard.edu!canopus.hbs.edu!news-in.tiac.net!imci5!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Himmler's War Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 07:56:35 GMT Lines: 24 Letter from Reichsfuehrer-SS Himmler to the Higher SS and Police Chief in the Ukraine, Kiev, September 7 1943 [Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression - Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1946, Supp. A, p. 1270] --------------------------------------------------------------------- Dear Pruetzmann, Infantry general staff has special orders with regard to the Donetz area. Get in touch with him immediately. I order you to cooperate as much as you can. The aim to be achieved is that when areas in the Ukraine are evacuated, not a human being, not a single head of cattle, not a hundredweight of cereals and not a railway line remain behind; that not a house remain standing, not a mine is available which is not destroyed for years to come, that there is not a well which is not poisoned. The enemy must really find completely burned and destroyed land. Discuss these things with Stampf straight away and do your absolute best. -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 3 07:03:23 PDT 1996 Article: 55027 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!news.shkoo.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: '... When 100 Corpses Are Lying Side By Side, Or 500, Or 1,000' Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 05:47:38 GMT Lines: 35 Speechs by Reichsfuehrer-SS Himmler before senior SS officers in Poznan, October 4 and 6, 1943 [Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military Tribunals - Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1949-1953, Vol. XIII, p. 323, and Himmler, Reichsfuehrer-SS - P. Padfield, Henry Holt and Co, NY, 1990, p. 469] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I mean the evacuation of the Jews, the extermination of the Jewish race. It's one of those things it is easy to talk about, "the Jewish race is being exterminated", says one party member, "that's quite clear, it's in our program, elimination of the Jews, and we're doing it, exterminating them". And then they come, 80 million worthy Germans, and each one has his decent Jew. Of course the others are vermin, but this one is an A-1 Jew. Not one of those who talk this way has watched it, not one of them has gone through it. Most of you know what it means when 100 corpses are lying side by side, or 500, or 1,000. To have stuck it out and at the same time - apart from exceptions caused by human weakness - to have remained decent fellows, that is what has made us hard. This is a page of glory in our history which has never been written and is never to be written. I ask of you that what I say in this circle you really only hear and never speak of. We come to the question: how is it with the women and the children? I have resolved even here on a completely clear solution. That is to say I do not consider myself justified in eradicating the men - so to speak killing or ordering them killed - and allowing the avengers in the shape of the children to grow up for our sons and grandsons. The difficult decision has to be taken, to cause this Volk [people] to disappear from the earth. -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 3 07:03:24 PDT 1996 Article: 55028 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!news.shkoo.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Walter Burmeister Testifies About Chelmno Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 05:42:12 GMT Lines: 35 Testimony of gas-van driver Walter Burmeister [Quoted in 'The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The Free Press, NY, 1988., p. 219-220] ------------------------------------------------------------ As soon as the ramp had been erected in the castle, people started arriving in Kulmhof from Lizmannstadt in lorries... The people were told that they had to take a bath, that their clothes had to be disinfected and that they could hand in any valuable items beforehand to be registered... When they had undressed they were sent to the cellar of the castle and then along a passageway on to the ramp and from there into the gas-van. In the castle there were signs marked "to the baths". The gas vans were large vans, about 4-5 meters long, 2.2 meter wide and 2 meter high. The interior walls were lined with sheet metal. On the floor there was a wooden grille. The floor of the van had an opening which could be connected to the exhaust by means of a removable metal pipe. When the lorries were full of people the double doors at the back were closed and the exhaust connected to the interior of the van... The Kommando member detailed as driver would start the engine right away so that the people inside the lorry were suffocated by the exhaust gases. Once this had taken place, the union between the exhaust and the inside of the lorry was disconnected and the van was driven to the camp in the woods were the bodies were unloaded. In the early days they were initially burned in mass graves, later incinerated... I then drove the van back to the castle and parked it there. Here it would be cleaned of the excretions of the people that had died in it. Afterwards it would once again be used for gassing... I can no longer say what I thought at the time or whether I thought of anything at all. I can also no longer say today whether I was too influenced by the propaganda of the time to have refused to have carried out the orders I had been given. From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 3 07:03:25 PDT 1996 Article: 55034 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!news.shkoo.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Hitler Outlines His Plans For Jews Living In Arab Countries Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 05:49:13 GMT Lines: 30 Excerpts from the meeting between Hitler and the Mufti, Haj Amin Husseini, on 28 November 1941. The notes were taken by Dr. Paul Otto Schmidt and are quoted in Fleming's "Hitler and the Final Solution", p. 101-104. Also geheime Reichssache 57 a/41, Records Dept. Foreign and Commonwealth Office Pa/2. --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Fuehrer then made the following declaration, requesting the Mufti to lock it deep in his heart: 1) He (the Fuehrer) would carry on the fight until the last traces of the Jewish-Communist European hegemony had been obliterated. 2) In the course of this fight, the German army would - at a time that could not yet be specified, but in any case in the clearly foreseeable future - gain the southern exit of Caucasus. 3) As soon as this breakthrough was made, the Fuehrer would offer the Arab world his personal assurance that the hour of liberation had struck. Thereafter, Germany's only remaining objective in the region would be limited to the annihilation of the Jews living under British protection in Arab lands. -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 3 07:03:26 PDT 1996 Article: 55042 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Where's Baron? (Re: Absent without leave) Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <838757760snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 05:21:37 GMT Lines: 19 In alt.revisionism #109003, Alexander Baron asks Yale F. Edeiken: # By the way, you think a man who solicits a # prostitute is a criminal? And later, in alt.revisionism #109019 he writes # I'll be away for a few days and I won't have the # time to read 2,000+ messages when I get back. Hmm... just *where* is Alex going for a few days!? :-) -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 4 21:50:55 PDT 1996 Article: 55369 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!psgrain!iafrica.com!pipex-sa.net!plug.news.pipex.net!pipex!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!nntp.primenet.com!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!newspump.sol.net!news.inc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: auschwitz:myths and facts Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4t4nkl$f45@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> <31F66475.6B68@gryn.org> <4t6t68$74h@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com> Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 23:19:07 GMT Lines: 39 mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes: # Another former inmate [of Belsen], Moshe Peer, recalled # a miraculous escape from death as an eleven-year-old in the # camp. In a 1993 interview with a Canadian newspaper, the # French-born Peer claimed that he "was sent to the [Belsen] # camp gas chamber at least six times." The testimony is, indeed, incorrect. However: 1) He was 11-years-old when the war ended. The testimony of a child of that age has much less value than that of an adult. 2) If the fact that such incorrect testimony exists proves that the Holocaust is a "hoax", we will also have to conclude that the bombing of Dresden is a hoax, as we have totally ridiculous "evidence" about it, such as "puddles of melted human flesh, 4 foot deep", and of people turning into "an undulating layer of fine gray ash" (although the fire didn't even touch them), etc. But you know all this. We've been through it before. This is an FAQ now; easier, don't have to rewrite every time. There are, after all, advantages to confronting small minds like yours; one being their predictability. # And then there is Wiesel and his father who chose to be # evacuated from Auschwitz rather than liberated by the Russians. Only, so Wiesel writes, because the inmates were afraid that the SS was going to blow the camp up after they left, and kill all those who chose to remain. We've been through this also. But you must have forgot. You're senile. Nothing new here. -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 5 07:25:17 PDT 1996 Article: 85803 of control Control: cancel Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!psgrain!news.uoregon.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp.coast.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: cancel Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 20:22:23 GMT Lines: 5 was cancelled from within trn. -- Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. -Lu Xun. From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 5 15:23:15 PDT 1996 Article: 1369 of alt.bible.prophecy Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.christnet,alt.christnet.bible,alt.bible.prophecy,alt.religion.christian,talk.religion.misc Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!apollo.isisnet.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news.kth.se!solace!news.ecn.uoknor.edu!qns3.qns.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.fibr.net!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: 'Revisionist' Nonsense (Re: Anti-Fascist Organisation De Message-ID: Followup-To: alt.revisionism Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4snbm6$aj1@Networking.Stanford.EDU> Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 20:56:07 GMT Lines: 22 Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:51888 alt.christnet:82422 alt.christnet.bible:44291 alt.bible.prophecy:1369 alt.religion.christian:101885 talk.religion.misc:136748 [Followup = alt.revisionism] Two slight corrections/additions: 1) It is hardly accurate to claim that the gas chamber in Krema I (Auschwitz, main camp) was "built after the war". There are still cyanide compounds on its walls, as even the nutty "Holocaust revisionists" admit. 2) Re Dachau: photos of a letter from Rascher to Himmler, in which he states that gassing installations are being built in Dachau and suggests to use them to test combat gases on humans, are in http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/r/rascher.sigmund/images (note, especially, Rascher2.jpg (ref) ). -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 5 15:23:16 PDT 1996 Article: 1918 of alt.bible.prophecy Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.christnet,alt.religion.christian,alt.bible.prophecy Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Luther and the Jews Part 1 Message-ID: Followup-To: alt.revisionism Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4s9otl$1pt@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com> <4t8q77$reb@metroux.metrobbs.com> <31FA8259.1F50@mail.gte.net> Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 00:58:28 GMT Lines: 18 Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:53834 alt.christnet:85047 alt.religion.christian:104799 alt.bible.prophecy:1918 [Followup = alt.revisionism] bud writes: # Understand that I wanted to avoid beginning this, but since # Mr. Keren and others are now obviously beginning to attempt # to bring this issue into the Christian Newsgroup I can't speak for the others, but I am always setting the followup to alt.revisionism, and out of the Christian Newsgroup. -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 5 15:23:17 PDT 1996 Article: 1998 of alt.bible.prophecy Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.bible.prophecy,alt.christnet,alt.religion.christian Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Mr. Keren also ignores this aspect Message-ID: Followup-To: alt.revisionism Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4s9otl$1pt@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com> <31FA84DE.6949@mail.gte.net> <31fb7536.578470@news.pacificnet.net> Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 18:55:51 GMT Lines: 42 Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:54009 alt.bible.prophecy:1998 alt.christnet:85344 alt.religion.christian:105051 [Followup = alt.revisionism] tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes: # I personally don't know what Leuchter's qualifications are, He has none. He holds a BA in the arts. # but it is evident he did some test at Auschwitz. Keren # says here "Leuchter himself states very clearly ..." that # there were cyanide traces found at Auschwitz, seeming to # use Leuchter himself as a reliable source. Not Leuchter, but the lab that tested the samples he brought. I accept that Leuchter has enough qualifications to chop pieces off a wall. Moreover, there were other tests. # Keren did not add that the traces Leuchter found were # based on Prussian blue stains, This is a lie; he found traces in rooms which had no Prussian blue stains. # Thus we can assume that these HCNs from this source alone # where emitted into the atmosphere, converted to other cyanide # compounds and distributed to the ground by rain fall ("acid # rain") not to mention combinate possibilities for the # components of HCN that could form from natural processes. This is ridiculous. There are no cyanide traces in buildings in the camp in which cyanide gas was not used; this was confirmed in tests. Soon these people will claim that Hiroshima was never hit by an A-bomb, and that all radiation damage is from cosmic rays. -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Aug 6 08:45:56 PDT 1996 Article: 55516 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.reed.edu!camelot.ccs.neu.edu!nntp.neu.edu!grapevine.lcs.mit.edu!bone.think.com!cass.ma02.bull.com!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: auschwitz:myths and facts Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4t92ab$9o5@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com> <4tcpie$s2r@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 20:41:28 GMT Lines: 31 mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes: # dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote: ## And we have a specific reference, plus a photograph, ## of the Erco carrier. ## ## It existed. Do us a favor, don't claim it didn't. ## ## Why do you think it was manufactured? # Sorry, dummy. Do try to concentrate. I'm trying to help you here. I am aware of your severe limitations, which is why I'm taking this one step at a time. The Zyklon with the Erco carrier existed in 1933; we have the book and we even a photograph of it. Once again: Why do you think it was manufactured? Try to answer the question. -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Aug 7 13:26:51 PDT 1996 Article: 55565 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: What is, and what ain't Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <31f78739.5257640@news.pacificnet.net> <31ff7139.6646144@news.pacificnet.net> <3200da3a.5885543@news.pacificnet.net> Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 05:33:30 GMT Lines: 31 tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes: # Now it seems I have given Mr.Keren a tangent to go on. Any way, # Mr.Keren, isn't it true you touted yourself as a professor, and let # yourself be addressed as a professor many times, and never offered a # correction until one day you stated that you weren't really a # professor, but some sort of engineer? Since I cannot believe that even you are so stupid, I have to conclude you are acting out of malice, and a desire to slander me, which may well be libel in the legal sense. I have made it clear that I was a research associate in the Division of Engineering, Brown University, and that I currently teach in a different university. I also made it clear that being a researcher in the division of engineering in a university is not equivalent to being "some kind of engineer", and does not, of course, contradict the fact that I currently teach in a university. I cannot believe that even a "Holocaust revisionist" cannot understand something so simple. Even stupidity has its limits. -Danny Keren. -- Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. -Lu Xun. From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Aug 7 13:26:51 PDT 1996 Article: 55639 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!fury.berkshire.net!news.albany.net!news.sover.net!news.monad.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!news.inc.net!trellis.wwnet.com!News1.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!news.shkoo.com!nntp.primenet.com!winternet.com!mr.net!news.mid.net!newsfeeder.gi.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Slithery Nizkor/Keren stuff Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <3200df2d.7152553@news.pacificnet.net> <32020807.370304@news.pacificnet.net> Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 06:19:09 GMT Lines: 27 tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) # Of course I didn't make any issue about it being too dangerous to # handle. I made a point of it being a poor choice for the agent of mass # extermination. You gave no rational reason for this claim, nor any rational suggestion for a better choice. Zyklon was cheap, available at great quantities, and a small amount of it can kill thousands of people rather quickly. Moreover, the SS had a lot of experience using it. # Your a liar and a cheat. Your an evader, an omitter, dishonest, all # in the course of trouncing on anothers history. Your an anti-Teutonic. And I can still make you look like an idiot. But then, everybody can do that, I have to admit. -Danny Keren. -- Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. -Lu Xun. From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Aug 7 13:26:52 PDT 1996 Article: 55670 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.reed.edu!camelot.ccs.neu.edu!nntp.neu.edu!grapevine.lcs.mit.edu!bone.think.com!blanket.mitre.org!agate!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Photographs from BELSEN Camp Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4tqsa5$7dd@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 06:11:25 GMT Lines: 31 ehrlich606@aol.com (Ehrlich606) writes: # Wrong. The Zuendel trial was conducted according to completely different # rules to the Soviet Special commissions, of which we have negligible # evidence in the first place. And it also took place 40 years after the Holocaust, during which most of the witnesses died and the others became quite old. But you know that. Right? And, you cannot prove one single case of the Soviets "torturing" an SS-men to extract any testimony from him. Right? And we know that Hoess, in his memoirs, wrote things that obviously enraged the Soviets and the Poles, and that, obviously, they didn't tell him what to write. And that most of the trials of the SS-men from the death camps were held by the Germans, not by the Soviets, Poles, Americans. You *do* know all of this, I hope? -Danny Keren. -- Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. -Lu Xun. From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Aug 7 13:26:53 PDT 1996 Article: 55755 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Extermination or Sterilization Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4tuv3d$sc3@juliana.sprynet.com> <4u2kkc$256@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 19:19:38 GMT Lines: 18 ehrlich606@aol.com (Ehrlich606) writes: # The main advocate of sterilization was Dr. Brack. Could it # be that the Brack Method referred to _that_? Brack suggested to sterilize 2-3 million Jews who were "fit for work", while the rest will be killed immediately. The letter says it very clearly; the original poster "rblackmore@juno.com" must have missed it. -Danny Keren. -- Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. -Lu Xun. From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug 8 07:42:46 PDT 1996 Article: 55837 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!ames!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: What is, and what ain't Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <31f78739.5257640@news.pacificnet.net> <3200da43.5894331@news.pacificnet.net> <3208b9cc.3932904@news.pacificnet.net> Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 02:46:27 GMT Lines: 18 tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes: # It does not follow that the length of the flue would # create increasing draft proportionally. Even if it did, # Which it doesn't, we are talking about flues underground, # below the source point of the gases. So, have you finally decided that the flues were underground? Last time it was "I think". -Danny Keren. -- Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. -Lu Xun. From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug 8 07:42:47 PDT 1996 Article: 55842 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!News1.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!news.shkoo.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4i63p3$l5@axl02it.ntc.nokia.com> <4thvv0$8ln@hades.rz.uni-sb.de> <4tuv1p$df0@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com> Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 20:42:38 GMT Lines: 57 mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes: There again is Matt Giwer, big Holocaust expert, who claimed that Belsen camp was in Poland. He also claimed that the mention of "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar" in the Birkenau crematoriums means nothing, as it may only indicate "morbid humor" on behalf of the SS-men who wrote the documents. Let's see what smart things Giwer has to say this time. # You have to realize the Nazi mindset. When they wanted to # do something new, and as we know from the Auschwitz Museum # (below) Eichmann and Hoess had decided to use a gas but # they did not know which one. So rather than researching # gasses used for executions, they played around with anything # that came along until they found something at work. This is idiotic, of course, for two reasons: 1) The gas released from Zyklon-B (HCN) is the very same gas used before to execute people in US prisons. 2) It is a completely different matter, killing one person in a month or so, compared to killing thousands every day. This may well call for different means. 3) The SS had, in Birkenau, large amounts of Zyklon-B, which, they knew well, releases highly toxic gas. It's obvious that this would have been a natural gas to test, before looking for other types of gas. # And then, as all the holohuggers insist, LK I was resigned to # be a gas chamber but, according to the mindset, the designers # were permitted no access to any "foreign" technology nor were # they permitted to know even the slightest thing about the gas # that was going to be used. What is Giwer's evidence that the "designers were not permitted to know even the slightest thing about the gas that was going to be used", only God knows. Maybe he heard it from the same little birdie that told him Belsen camp was in Poland? # It all helps explain why they lost the war. They were just so # stupid. It all helps explain why you're losing the debate here. One reason: you are so stupid. -Danny Keren. -- Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. -Lu Xun. From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug 8 07:42:48 PDT 1996 Article: 55869 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Bahr testifies from a bar Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4u1f3p$a58@juliana.sprynet.com> Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 00:42:06 GMT Lines: 43 jbelling@sprynet.com writes: [About Bahr's testimony regarding gassing of Soviet POW's in Neuengamme] # He only had orders to pour in the gas? Yes. What's so odd about that? # At Neuengamme? Yes. What's so odd about that? # And he returned in 2 hours and marched in and # dragged out the corpses? Yes. What's so odd about that? # All on the orders of this doctor? Why not? # And we all know there was no gas chamber at # Neuengamme... How do we know that Dresden was bombed? Let's start with that. # Why did you bother posting this nonsense? Prove that it's nonsense. You people are like five-year-olds. You reject or accept something not based on any objective criteria, but based on your prior opinion whether it happened or not. -Danny Keren. -- Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. -Lu Xun. From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug 8 07:42:48 PDT 1996 Article: 55870 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: The Roman Empire was. Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <32057386.18750351@news.pacificnet.net> Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 00:58:38 GMT Lines: 33 tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes: # The Holocaust was. # # How do we know? Eye-witness testimony, And documents, population statistics, forensic examinations. # special interpretation of documents. Such as this one? The Goebbels [Reich propaganda Minister] diaries, March 27, 1942: [The Goebbels Diaries 1942-1943 - L.P. Lochner, Doubleday & Co., 1948, p. 147-148] ----------------------------------------------------------- Beginning with Lublin, the Jews in the General Government [Nazi occupied Poland] are now being evacuated eastward. The procedure is a pretty barbaric one and not to be described here more definitely. Not much will remain of the Jews. On the whole it can be said that about 60 per cent of them will have to be liquidated whereas only 40 percent can be used for forced labor. -Danny Keren. -- Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. -Lu Xun. From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug 8 07:42:49 PDT 1996 Article: 55876 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Zyklon B: Kieselguhr & Gypsum Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4u1duj$1n0@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com> <4u2gvo$ss@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <3204dfdc.490260@news.pacificnet.net> Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 20:50:55 GMT Lines: 22 tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes: # The Peters' report mentions 1 to 2 hours, by Mr.Keren/Nizkor # relating, which was for prussic acid, no mention of Zyklon B, # which the related material Mr.Keren/Nizkor gave included the # statement that grain size was unknown. Who knows? Maybe it # was liquid. No, it explicitly says Zyklon was used. Look it up. It's on the web. BTW, the conjecture made by "ehrlich" is irrelevant; the Paters-Rasch paper is from 1941. -Danny Keren. -- Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. -Lu Xun. From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug 8 07:42:50 PDT 1996 Article: 55878 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Lagace's testimony Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4u38ba$fq1@Vir.com> Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 01:13:29 GMT Lines: 36 Jean-Francois Beaulieu writes: Let's concentrate on this; it's the only possibly relevant part. # If an operator attempted to introduce a body into the retort # when temperatures were still excessive, a "flash ignition" # could occur whereby the body would ignite before it was # fully introduced into the retort. In such a case, the operator # would be engulfed in flames from the burning body and would # be unable to close the door to the retort. To put it simply, # he said, "you can basically walk away and watch your building # burn down." Is this the same guy who testified about the people in Dresden who, although the fire didn't touch them, have "glowed orange and melted into 4 foot deep puddles of melted flesh" (or turned a "layer of gray ashes")? Is there any evidence, any case, of this "flash ignition" ever taking place? More so as other "revisionists" are saying that corpses cannot burn at all? And this one is saying that they ignite like a bucket of gasoline? You people are amazing. -Danny Keren. -- Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. -Lu Xun. From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug 8 07:42:51 PDT 1996 Article: 55879 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Germar Rudolf Responds on Zyklon Outgassing Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4u5kqb$9qc@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 01:30:13 GMT Lines: 52 ehrlich606@aol.com (Ehrlich606) writes: [Quoting Germar Rudoplh] # Mr. Roessler It's Dr. Roessler, actually. # should weigh his words more carefully. If I # had lied in relation to the remarks of Dr. Peters in one # of his publications, that would mean that I had knowingly # stated a falsehood. he quoted "the larger part" as "half". One must assume he was intentionally lying. # Here Mr. Roessler is completely correct: the data which I # received from Detia Freyberg (Laudenbach/Bergstrasse) were # not exactly ample. Well that's good to hear. # As to the application of an exponential curve for outgassing, # I can scarcely understand what the problem might be, since # there is no function with a more rapid declination. This has to be one of the most idiotic things I read in my life. There are many functions which decrease faster. That's indeed one for the ZOG quote files. # Finally I would like to ask whether Mr. Roessler has ever # given any thought as to how the Zyklon B would be introduced # into the alleged gas chambers of Crematorium II and III # given the absence of any of the oft-cited holes in the roof. Now that's just great. Some "revisionists", like Andrew Allen, keep telling us there are three holes in the roof. And now another one tells us there are none. Never mind the photos in pressac's book which clearly show the holes. These people are amazing. -Danny Keren. -- Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. -Lu Xun. From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug 8 07:42:51 PDT 1996 Article: 55880 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Extermination or Sterilization Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4u6rmj$t3l@juliana.sprynet.com> Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 01:51:47 GMT Lines: 24 rblackmore@juno.com writes: # Why was SS doctor Clauberg at Auschwitz in 1943 allegedly doing #research on sterilization methods to be used in regard to the # Jews if the SS had orders to exterminate them? Documents such as the oft-quoted excerpt from Goebbels' diary, Jager's report, Brack's letter to Himmler etc, very explicitly state that Jews "unfit for work" will be killed immediately, while those "fit for work" will be sterilized. # So many stories.....so many lies. try not to be so stupid. Try to actually *learn* something before posting. -Danny Keren. -- Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. -Lu Xun. From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug 8 07:42:52 PDT 1996 Article: 55881 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Wetzel writes unconfirmed nonsense Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4u71mp$1ht@juliana.sprynet.com> Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 01:57:16 GMT Lines: 30 rblackmore@juno.com writes: # Wetzel Writes: Did Wetzel testify at Nuremberg or any # other court? Do you know? # Where are the mass graves at Riga where these people were # supposedly murdered? Where are the corpses of 2 million Germans who allegedly died after the war? # What happened to Kallmeyer? Where is he today? This question you keep bringing up is odd. This is a letter written in 1941 we're talking about. # Did he ever give testimony in a court of law? You tell us. Do you know? -Danny Keren. -- Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. -Lu Xun. From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug 8 07:42:52 PDT 1996 Article: 55885 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Giwer's way with women Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4t25lq$gs4@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com> <4t6j8m$ns0@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <4t <4u7md4$3mqs@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 01:59:38 GMT Lines: 16 Calling every female poster here "fat broad". Joking about a photograph showing women being shot to death. Posting it was "good to hear" that his wife died. That's Giwer's way with women. -Danny Keren. -- Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. -Lu Xun. From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug 8 07:42:53 PDT 1996 Article: 55886 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Mauving right along Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4tqqo6$6m5@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 02:19:09 GMT Lines: 19 ehrlich606@aol.com writes: # ...That is not proof. I have still not seen any proof that # the fans would kick in after 5 minutes other than the fact # that you and P are obviously committed to this notion. I'm reading Philip Mueller's book; he does say exactly this, as I recall. This is how the procedure makes sense: first, the Zyklon is taken out, then, the ventilation switched on, and, after a few minutes, the door opened. -Danny Keren. -- Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. -Lu Xun. From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug 8 07:42:54 PDT 1996 Article: 55889 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Slithery Nizkor/Keren stuff Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <3200df2d.7152553@news.pacificnet.net> <3201769c.45919277@news.pacificnet.net> <4ttbus$sju@lendl.cc.emory.edu> <4u69sc$qto@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 21:26:06 GMT Lines: 16 gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes: # You also have a brain, which is something little Tommy lacks. He # wonders why Dr. Keren would post a German source in German. Frankly, it's in (Talmudic) Hebrew. I just wanted to see if little Tommy can tell the difference :-). -Danny Keren. -- Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. -Lu Xun. From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug 8 07:42:55 PDT 1996 Article: 55890 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: An SS Court States: Almost like Lt. Calley Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4tuvg9$sc3@juliana.sprynet.com> <4u2kkd$257@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 21:20:20 GMT Lines: 42 ehrlich606@aol.com (Ehrlich606) writes: [About the Taubner case] # You will note that this massacre was rather similar to those # committed by Germans, particularly SS and their foreign # auxiliaries. The problem with this analogy is that the SS committed numerous such massacres, as a matter of policy. Moreover, I post the court's decision in the Taubner case not because of the light sentence handed by the court; this is not as important as the court's declaration. Since you people are obviously trying to divert the discussion from this, here we go again. Do make an effort to read it this time. Excerpts from Verdict of the SS Court in Munich, against SS-Untersturmfuehrer Max Taubner, 24 of May 1943 ['The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The Free Press, NY, 1988, p, 196-207] ----------------------------------------------------------------- 1. The accused shall not be punished because of the actions against the Jews as such. The Jews have to be exterminated and none of the Jews that were killed is any great loss. Although the accused should have recognized that the extermination of the Jews was the duty of Kommandos which were set up especially for this purpose, he should be excused for considering himself to have the authority to take part in the extermination of Jewry himself. -Danny Keren. -- Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. -Lu Xun. From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug 8 10:04:37 PDT 1996 Article: 124995 of control Control: cancel Newsgroups: soc.culture.german Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: cancel Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 03:26:20 GMT Lines: 5 was cancelled from within trn. -- Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. -Lu Xun. From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug 8 10:31:05 PDT 1996 Article: 55894 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Except from Rudolf Report -- Zyklon B Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4u7v5l$f7d@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <3208abcf.351080@news.pacificnet.net> Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 02:42:57 GMT Lines: 26 tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) # The Zyklon B/carbon monoxide connection. The conventional bombs/atomic bombs connection. # Millions exterminated with carbon monoxide, a wide # spread and proven method, Many cities destroyed with conventional bombs, a wide spread and proven method, # and yet suddenly at Auschwitz, it's Zyklon B. And yet suddenly at Hiroshima, it's an atomic bomb. Quite a hoax, eh? -Danny Keren. -- Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. -Lu Xun. From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug 8 11:20:18 PDT 1996 Article: 55914 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: The Roman Empire was. Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <32057386.18750351@news.pacificnet.net> <32075f74.2975452@news.pacificnet.net> <4ubh0q$afi@orion.cybercom.net> Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 04:35:45 GMT Lines: 23 tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote: # Fifty one years ago would have been the time to # to amass the physical evidence for the alleged Holocaust. The physical evidence is there. What makes this whole thread really odd, BTW, is the fact that you're willing to accept the authenticity of other events for which there is no physical evidence whatsoever. Why are you applying a double standard? Or are you going to claim you don't remember what I'm talking about, zeide? -Danny Keren. -- Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. -Lu Xun. From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug 8 15:51:43 PDT 1996 Article: 125074 of control Control: cancel Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.dacom.co.kr!news.postech.ac.kr!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!wilbur.ohww.norman.ok.us!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!news.thenet.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: cancel Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 03:24:57 GMT Lines: 5 was cancelled from within trn. -- Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. -Lu Xun. From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug 8 23:03:08 PDT 1996 Article: 55962 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: The Roman Empire was. Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <32057386.18750351@news.pacificnet.net> <4ubh0q$afi@orion.cybercom.net> <3209ef8c.2261427@news.pacificnet.net> Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 22:09:34 GMT Lines: 42 tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes: # dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote: ## The physical evidence is there. # Where? Large amounts of human remains, documents, some of the gas chambers, and cyanide traces in those of Auschwitz-Birkenau. ## Why are you applying a double standard? Or are you ## going to claim you don't remember what I'm talking ## about, zeide? # Instead of just claiming the above, which is your usual # practice in responding, why don't you just post the # particulars? In Xref: world alt.revisionism:88383, posted on May 11 09:02:45 EDT 1996, you claimed that African slaves were "thrown over board enmass from ships transporting them to the Americas". Regardless if this happened or not, you obviously have no physical proof whatsoever that it did. Which means that you're willing to accept that event A (for which there is no physical evidence) took place, while you refuse to accept that event B (for which there is physical evidence) took place. This is a typical double standard applied by Nazis who deny the Holocaust. There's really nothing new here. -Danny Keren. -- Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. -Lu Xun. From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug 8 23:03:09 PDT 1996 Article: 55963 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Nizkor's BELZEC - more goofy stuff Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <31fe1de3.541560@news.pacificnet.net> <3208ac02.402490@news.pacificnet.net> <3209f233.2940300@news.pacificnet.net> Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 22:14:05 GMT Lines: 35 tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes: # Mr.Keren says "...if one witness in one camp made one # numerical/other error in his/her testimony, than the # Holocaust is a hoax. I was saying, of course, that this is what "revisionists" claim. # I would agree that if it was just one discrepancy in # Holocaust eyewitness testimony there wouldn't be much # to go on. But when there is scores, even hundreds, we # have to start to 'look sideways'. Show us the "hundreds". There are about 3-4 testimonies which "revisionists" always bring up, which may have inaccuracies in them. # It is not a case of just "one" as Mr.Keren puts it. # # He's the one with the "one" with his lengthy discourse # on Faurisson. Faurisson is the one who's claiming that Gerstein's testimony is the only evidence about Belzec and Treblinka. This is a complete lie, and he must know that. -Danny Keren. -- Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. -Lu Xun. From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Aug 9 08:02:05 PDT 1996 Article: 56016 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci5!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Except from Rudolf Report -- Zyklon B Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4u7v5l$f7d@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <3208abcf.351080@news.pacificnet.net> <3209ea0c.853809@news.pacificnet.net> Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 00:17:28 GMT Lines: 50 tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes: # Whereas the atomic bomb was an improvement, as far as being # able to destroy, and wasn't developed until a certain # time, at which time they used it, Zyklon B was there # already. It is also evident, going by Holocaust facts, that # carbon monoxide was used with relative ease compared to what # the Germans had to go through with Zyklon B. Hardly. Bottled CO was rather expensive and difficult to ship around in large quantities. Engine exhaust caused problems (we have the report about an explosion taking place in Chelmno), engines would break down, and it is not clear how it would apply for the huge gas chambers of Birkenau. Zyklon-B was available at large quantities; it was cheap; a very small amount can kill thousands of people; and the SS had a great deal of experience with using it. # And as Ehrich's post shows, with more direct approach than # Mr.Keren and company's tactics of referring people to # some "images" written in German, Can you elaborate? # the product Zyklon B would have been a poor choice # since only 12.5%, at the most, of the product would have # been used with 87.5%, More than 12.5; but this is not really crucial. # at the least, being un-necessary, wasted, left over to # complicate the unloading of the chambers and disposing of # the left over 87.5%. As noted here dozens of times, these "complications" were trivial to solve, using a ventilation system (or natural ventilation), and gas masks. -Danny Keren. -- Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. -Lu Xun. From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Aug 9 08:02:06 PDT 1996 Article: 56045 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!imci2!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Zyklon B: Kieselguhr & Gypsum Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4u1duj$1n0@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com> <3204dfdc.490260@news.pacificnet.net> <3209e894.477902@news.pacificnet.net> Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 22:01:52 GMT Lines: 22 tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes: # dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote: ## No, it explicitly says Zyklon was used. Look it up. It's ## on the web. # "Look it up. It's on the web" Mr.Keren says. Does he offer exact # locations? No. http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz/cyanide/zyklon/images Files peters-rasch-135.jpg (bottom) and peters-rasch-136.jpg (section 2. of that page). -Danny Keren. -- Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. -Lu Xun. From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Aug 9 08:02:07 PDT 1996 Article: 56048 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Photographs from BELSEN Camp Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <838484554snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4tg59k$qfk@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <320a0c85.596821190@news.zilker.net> Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 00:32:07 GMT Lines: 39 Summary: "revisionist" lies about death in the "work camps" ---------------------------------------------------------- Regarding all this "revisionist" rubbish about the starvation in the camps allegedly caused by "collapse of the German infra-structure towards the end of the war", it is interesting to look at a letter from Oswald Pohl to Himmler, 30 Sep. 1943, about the mortality in some of the concentration camps (as opposed to death camps); it's in the "Trials Of War Criminals" (green) series, Vol. V, p. 379. In July 1942, the death rate was 8.5 percent. In August 1942, the death rate was 10.6 percent. In September 1942, the death rate was 10.2 percent. This is 10 percent dropping dead in ONE MONTH!! The TOTAL death rate for American and British POW's was about 3.5 percent! And this is long, long before the end of the war. These people didn't die because Kramer locked himself in the bread store, or because the water pump broke down, or because of any other "reason" our desperate Nazi apologists are trying to peddle. They died because the Nazis considered them to be "sub-humans". The people who continue to make lame excuses and lie about their death, are probably in agreement with the Nazis; there is no other clear reason to explain what they are doing. -Danny Keren. -- Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. -Lu Xun. From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Aug 9 08:02:07 PDT 1996 Article: 56049 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: What is, and what ain't Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <31f78739.5257640@news.pacificnet.net> <3208b9cc.3932904@news.pacificnet.net> <3209f422.3435613@news.pacificnet.net> Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 00:34:53 GMT Lines: 20 tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes: # Aren't you the one who was asking "What Floor?", "What # flues?"? You have still failed to answer my question. Are you finally claiming that the flues ran "under the floor"? If so, what floor? Why can't you answer? -Danny Keren. -- Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. -Lu Xun. From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Aug 9 08:02:08 PDT 1996 Article: 56053 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Lagace's testimony Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4u38ba$fq1@Vir.com> <3209fff2.6459674@news.pacificnet.net> Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 00:38:18 GMT Lines: 17 So, Moran, are you in agreement with Legace that a corpse, inserted into a hot cremation furnaces, may ignite like a can of gasoline and burn the whole building down? This is what he's saying (which is mighty fascinating, since other "revisionists" say corpses can't burn at all). Do you agree? YES OR NO? -Danny Keren. -- Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. -Lu Xun. From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Aug 9 08:02:09 PDT 1996 Article: 56054 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: A revisionist FAQ (1) (Repost) Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4u3b1k$hq2@Vir.com> <320a0185.6862549@news.pacificnet.net> <4udh1v$9l8@lendl.cc.emory.edu> Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 00:42:11 GMT Lines: 25 libwca@curly.cc.emory.edu (william c anderson) writes: # tom moran (tm@pacificnet.net) wrote: ## Ah yes the "images" for text, written in German, in ## large point, I tried to make it like the famous "Fuehrer typewriter" for you folks. ## light gray letters, requiring scrolling sideways. # I'm sorry it's so difficult to scroll sideways with your # rigii, Tommy. Perhaps if you tried using the arrow keys... Good advice there, Mr. Anderson. Tommy probably tried pushing the computer sideways... -Danny Keren. -- Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. -Lu Xun. From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 10 09:52:56 PDT 1996 Article: 56168 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!news.shkoo.com!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Shhh! Don't mention it Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <320b3e8f.548700@news.pacificnet.net> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 03:18:53 GMT Lines: 54 tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes: # How many people would think that the main gas said to have # been used for extermination, the gas that is at the center # of the Auschwitz story, was, in Holocaust reality, pellets # made for fumigation purposes. And how many Nazi "revisionists" know that these pellets release the very same gas that is used, up to this day, to execute condemned inmates in US prisons? Think about that, little Tommy. Think about that. Someone needs to kill many people with poison gas. He has large quantities of a substance which releases a very lethal form of cyanide gas. It's cheap. He can obtain large quantities of it. It also has an innocent use, which helps keep the operation secret. He has great experience with using it. So he used it. This is not hard to understand. # It's 'funny' that of all the talk about the Holocaust and # Auschwitz, which appears in myriads in and on our medias, # rarely are any details discussed. I have no idea what little Tommy means by "rarely". The Zyklon is described in most, or all, texts I've read about the Holocaust. Most people also have no idea about how an A-bomb works, yet they don't deny Hiroshima because of that. # is it ever said exactly what the gas agent(s) were? Yes. # The reason we don't see any discussion on what was the gas, But we do. You're a liar. Go to sleep, zeide. You're going down the tubes. God save you if your fuehrers ever get to power. You'll be off to the "T4 operation" before you can say "exterminationist". -Danny Keren. -- Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. -Lu Xun. From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 10 09:52:57 PDT 1996 Article: 56185 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!portc01.blue.aol.com!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Except from Rudolf Report -- Zyklon B Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4u7v5l$f7d@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <3209ea0c.853809@news.pacificnet.net> <4uf3k7$36d@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com> Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 18:05:34 GMT Lines: 36 mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes: # What an asshole. It is not nice that Giwer repeats here the language he took up at home. # You have been the strongest supporter of CO at Treblinka It is hard to understand what this sentence means. I said that CO was one of the reasons people died in the Treblinka gas chambers. I also said that this method of gassing had its problems, which is why Hoess decided, eventually, to continue using Zyklon-B for the Birkenau gas chambers, and not use engine exhaust. # and suddenly when it is not the hottest thing since sex # in another place you are all over it. See above. # This is the usual holohugging crap. Used Russian and German # for that matter tank engines were as available at A-B as at # Treblinka. And there was plenty of Zyklon-B available in Auschwitz as well. -Danny Keren. -- Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. -Lu Xun. From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 10 09:52:58 PDT 1996 Article: 56193 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Death in Mauthausen Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 22:36:19 GMT Lines: 112 Affidavit of SS member Alois Hoellriegl, a guard in Mauthausen [Quoted in "Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression" - Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1946, Vol. VIII, p. 630] ------------------------------------------------------------------ Executions were carried out almost daily at Mauthausen. In the years preceding 1942 they were carried out by firing squads and the bodies were burned in the camp incinerator which operated almost daily. SS-guards made up the firing squads and were detailed for the work in a routine manner the same as for other work details. Victims executed by a firing squad were always shot singly by six men using rifles. The number of executions varied daily. Sometimes they included persons brought by the Gestapo who were executed immediately. In 1942 a gas chamber resembling a shower room was built next to the incinerator. Gas executions were carried out in the gas chamber approximately three times a week and the bodies were burned in the adjoining incinerator. From my guard post I could hear the sound of the victims pounding on the door when the gas was turned on. Testimony of Albert Tiefenbacher, political prisoner in Mauthausen [Quoted in "Trial of the Major War Criminals Before the International Military Tribunal", Vol. XXXIII, p. 226] -------------------------------------------------------------- Q. Did you hear Kaltenbrunner say anything to Ziereis? A. No, I was never so close to him. The carriers of the dead had to disappear when visitors were there, only the two firemen were allowed to stay in the crematorium. Q. Do you remember Wolfram? A. He was a medic. Q. What do you know about him? A. Wolfram gave many of the deadly injections to people. Q. Do you remember Eckermann? A. I know a block-leader Ecker. Q. Do you remember the gas chamber camouflaged as a bath house? A. Yes, we always helped to carry the dead from the gas chamber. Testimony of Johann Kanduth, political prisoner in Mauthausen [Quoted in "Trial of the Major War Criminals Before the International Military Tribunal", Vol. XXXIII] ------------------------------------------------------------------ p. 232: Q. Describe your work. A. At first my occupation consisted of removing the bodies, then I served the heating and had to learn to put in the corpses, then I had to stir up and take out the ashes. This was my occupation during 4.5 years. . . . p. 233: Q. What kinds of execution preceded your cremation? A. They were shot in the back of the neck. There were also women. Some were killed in the gas chamber. Other were killed by springes of gasoline or Efamedem, which were given by a certain Klein Guenther. . . . p. 242: Q. Do you remember the executions of the English and American military personnel in the year 1945? A. Yes. Q. Tell us something about it. A. The staff went downstairs, Ziereis, Bachmaier, Streitwieser, Niedermayer led them. I do not remember if Altfuldich was present too. Ohrenstein must know it. Schulz was always present. Proksch and Rommel led them up from the bunker. Q. Were you employed at the moment of the execution? A. No. Q. Do you know who was employed? A. Ohrenstein, the only survivor. I came later. Hauptscharfuehrer Roth fetched me when the execution was over. The 14 bodies of the Americans lay separately. -- Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. -Lu Xun. From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 10 09:52:58 PDT 1996 Article: 56194 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4u72nf$46t@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com> <4ue4vc$ati@news.enter.net> <4uf0ea$kno@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 20:36:05 GMT Lines: 36 mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes: [To yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)] # When you ask for my daughter's number you are ready # for the grave. It's interesting to see how protective and caring (apparently, at least), this person is towards his own family, while being such a sadist wherever other people are considered. Giwer's "joke" about the photograph of women being shot to death is but one example. It is obvious from his writing that he couldn't care less about the lives of others. It is clearly obvious that his major (possibly, only) goal in posting, is to inflict emotional pain on others. And in the most vulgar way possible; he's not even trying to hide his intentions. I guess this is what characterizes an animal, as compared to a human being: an animal cares only about its immediate family, its offsprings in particular. It has no emotions nor concerns about other animals, not even of its own kind. Relax, Giwer. I'm not going to try and call your father, or son, or daughter. I just feel sorry for them for having someone like you for a son or a father. -Danny Keren. -- Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. -Lu Xun. From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 10 09:52:59 PDT 1996 Article: 56253 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci5!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism Message-ID: Followup-To: alt.revisionism Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4i63p3$l5@axl02it.ntc.nokia.com> <4tsci6$s7@hades.rz.uni-sb.de> Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 18:30:20 GMT Lines: 44 Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.german:82337 alt.revisionism:56253 olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg) writes: # Ventilation # # Depending on concentration, outdoor temperature and weather # conditions, ventilation will take at least 10 hours. Its # duration also depends on the type of building, number, # size, and situation of windows and other apertures. This is a standard claim made by Nazi propagandists who deny the Holocaust: they suggest that since the Degesch manual says that it takes 10 hours to ventilate a room, or building, from HCN gas, it is impossible that the "sonderkommando" could enter the gas chambers 20-30 minutes after the gassing to take the corpses out. To understand how dumb this argument is, look at execution gas chambers in the US, which have used HCN gas since 1920. Are our "revisionists" suggesting that the corpses of those executed in these gas chambers remain strapped to their seats for 10 hours after being executed? To elaborate, the 10 hours period is irrelevant because: 1) In the large, underground gas chambers of Kremas II and III, mechanical ventilation was used to replace the air. This took a few minutes. 2) In other gas chambers, the sonderkommando used gas masks. 3) It is much easier to ventilate a big room, with no furniture, curtains etc, than to ventilate an ordinary building. -Danny Keren. -- Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. -Lu Xun. From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 10 09:53:00 PDT 1996 Article: 56269 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.fan.ernst-zundel,alt.revisionism,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.jewish,talk.politics.guns,talk.politics.libertarian,talk.abortion,alt.christnet,alt.usenet.kooks,alt.bonehead.matt-giwer Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!unixg.ubc.ca!info.ucla.edu!agate!howland.erols.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!nntp04.primenet.com!news.shkoo.com!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Trolls Message-ID: Followup-To: alt.revisionism Keywords: giwer Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4tngc2$ilv@news1.panix <4udfqh$41d4@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <4ug94k$9bu@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 03:49:47 GMT Lines: 36 Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.fan.ernst-zundel:2448 alt.revisionism:56269 alt.conspiracy:76447 alt.politics.white-power:38802 soc.culture.jewish:67374 talk.politics.guns:297063 talk.politics.libertarian:110256 talk.abortion:180969 alt.christnet:90330 alt.usenet.kooks:28031 alt.bonehead.matt-giwer:432 kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca (Ken McVay OBC) writes: # Mr. Giwer is all mouth, no proof (perhaps all of his proof # resides in bottles labled "Cherry Jack" - one cannot say). # That is not because Mr. Giwer is stupid (although a case # might be made), And a rather strong case, old son. Smart "revisionist scholars" don't claim that documents about "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar" in the Auschwitz crematoriums may mean nothing, as they are possibly due to "a morbid sense of humor" on part of the SS-men who authored the documents... But this is what Giwer claimed (in Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>). He also claimed, BTW, that Belsen camp was in Poland. (But then, who *has* seen a smart "revisionist scholar"?). # the ZOG Telephone Transmitted Golem Bomb does not transmit # h.pylori, To carry on Marty Kelley's observation, there is no doubt that Giwer has reached the "Golem Heights"! -Danny Keren. -- Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. -Lu Xun. From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 10 09:53:01 PDT 1996 Article: 56274 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: auschwitz:myths and facts Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4u5keo$lqu@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com> <4uer5l$ndi@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 17:58:24 GMT Lines: 23 mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes: # dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote: ## Listen, you senile piece of dreck. If you're accusing me ## of posting something, you better have the proof. # Is that another threat? This is not a threat, and I've never made any threats against anyone. It's just a statement: you're a lying piece of trash who accuses people of posting things they never posted. -Danny Keren. -- Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. -Lu Xun. From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 10 15:58:12 PDT 1996 Article: 56320 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!newspump.sol.net!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Except from Rudolf Report -- Zyklon B Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4u7v5l$f7d@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <3209ea0c.853809@news.pacificnet.net> <320c8ca2.563475@news.pacificnet.net> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 20:51:58 GMT Lines: 72 tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes: # Nizkor > Ftp > camps > "majdanek .004". A Soviet report # states they found gas tanks that were said to hold CO. True, and I believe this gas bottle is still in Maidanek. Bottled CO was also used for some time in Belzec, but it was obviously easier to use an engine than to transport these large, heavy bottles, in great quantities, to the death camps. # The Zyklon B would be made after a number of steps and # transportations. The manufacture of the materials for the # carrier and shipping to Degesch, the manufacture of the # HCN and shipping, the making of the product (under # specialized conditions one would think), packaging in # the cans, crating, shipping. Not to mention all the other # little expenses, man hours, clerical, worker, etc. # Printing that had to be put on the side of the cans. # Training teams, and a slue of other expense considerations. This ignores the fact that it was already being manufactured in great quantities, and that all of what you talk about already existed. The point is moot. There were two main methods used to gas people: engine exhaust and Zyklon. Both were cheap and easy. Wirth chose method A, Hoess chose method B. Not much more to it. Different people will choose different methods. Like generals using a different strategy during a war. Or chess players using a different strategy during a game. # Anyway, here you have just offered up the proposal that the # Germans may have chosen Zyklon B over carbon monoxide because of # expense considerations With regard to bottled CO, yes. # SS having to go around from one window to another with a step # ladder, doing a "balancing act" while dumping in the Zyklon B, # cutting holes in roofs through iron reinforced concrete, # construction of special pillars and wire mesh introduction # cages. Picking up the remaining Zyklon B which would by then # still have about 50% of the HCN, getting rid of and/or # recycling the expended Zyklon B pellets to something else. # Gas masks. Sigh. All this effort together would amount to, say, tenth of a percent of the effort needed to build one U-boat. If one's going to kill such a huge number of people with poison gas, he'll have to put some effort into this. Gas masks. Big problem. They had them and used them anyway for delousing. Climbing a few steps on a ladder. Wow. You're really trying to say that cutting a few holes through the roof would have been a major undertaking for Germany... You people are simply amazing. -Danny Keren. -- Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. -Lu Xun. From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 10 15:58:17 PDT 1996 Article: 56324 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!news.shkoo.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.nap.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: The Roman Empire was. Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <32057386.18750351@news.pacificnet.net> <320b3dbe.339381@news.pacificnet.net> <320ca1c4.5972983@news.pacificnet.net> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 21:24:19 GMT Lines: 29 tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes: # Anyone wanting to see Mr.Keren's racist denial analogy, # see his stuff, this thread. This is, of course, a desperate lie by notorious liar and forger, Tom Moran. We all remember his forgery of Kurt Prufer's testimony; and now he lies and slanders again. I was pointing out that Moran uses a double standard: he accepts the story of the African slaves thrown, in large numbers, into the sea, while he has no physical proof whatsoever for this. Now, I'm not denying this story; I'm pointing out that Moran (as well as other "revisionists"), applies a double standard when evaluating the authenticity of the Holocaust vs. other historical events. He cannot deny this. -Danny Keren. -- Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. -Lu Xun. From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 10 16:58:34 PDT 1996 Article: 56338 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Moran Can't Answer a Simple Question (Re: Lagace's testimony) Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4u38ba$fq1@Vir.com> <3209fff2.6459674@news.pacificnet.net> <320b4d42.4311173@news.pacificnet.net> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 01:26:38 GMT Lines: 67 tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes: # Poor Mr.Keren, he has singled out something from the # report which he thinks he can ridicule and evidently # he thinks this should make the reader think that is # all there is to denying the whole report. Answer the question, you tiresome clown. Why can't you answer it already? Do you agree with Legace's claim that a corpse may ignite like a can of gasoline when inserted into a hot cremation furnace? YES OR NO? Has any such case been recorded? # What it really shows is that Mr.Keren shys away from # commenting on the main gist of the report, This *is* the main gist of the report; Legace uses this argument to try and prove that cremation of many corpses will take a lot of time, because, so he claims, there would have to be a long cool-down period between cremations. # What about it Mr.Keren, the report states it takes 1 1/2 to 2 # hours to cremate a body to the fullest, I just posted a section from the cremation society's FAQ. They say less than an hour for some furnaces. They also say that when the furnace is warm, it takes about half the time to cremate a corpse. The 1951 Topf patent gives 30-45 minutes. # whereas the Holocaust story says they could cremate four # bodies in 15 minutes, 15 minutes is not true, probably, but this is not what most accounts give. The real question is, could they cremate the number of corpses comparable to reasonable estimates of the number of people who died in the camp? Obviously, they could. A simple calculation proves this. And a simple calculation proves the SS would never build so many crematoriums and cremation furnaces unless they were planning to carry out mass murder. # The testimony given by the expert witness was that of # only one man, "Expert"? This "expert" talks about corpses exploding and igniting like a napalm bomb, burning the whole building down (!!) - this is what he says. Some "expert" indeed. Sounds like Fred Leuchter's claim about Bischoff ordering to store corpses in a warm room, so they "will not freeze". You people are insane. Seek medical help. Corpses igniting like a can of gasoline. Corpses stored in warm rooms, so they "will not freeze". Crazy "revisionists" meatheads... -Danny Keren. -- Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. -Lu Xun. From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 10 16:58:35 PDT 1996 Article: 56339 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: The Roman Empire was. Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <32057386.18750351@news.pacificnet.net> <3209ef8c.2261427@news.pacificnet.net> <320b3dbe.339381@news.pacificnet.net> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 01:36:31 GMT Lines: 48 tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes: # Your right. I don't have the proof. I recall reading # about it in school, when I was a kid. There are no # photographs I presume, only stories. That's about it. Moran admits that he accepts the stories of African slaves being "thrown over board enmass from ships transporting them to the Americas", although he has no physical evidence whatsoever to support these stories. # But I'll let you be the one to post a denial of this # Afro-American history. I'm not denying it, zeide. YOU'RE the one in trouble here. You admit that you're applying a double standard when evaluating the authenticity of historical events. You demand standards for the Holocaust which you do not demand for other events. You're up the creek, zeide. # Ninety nine percent (99%) of the Holocaust story is founded # on eyewitness testimonies A lie. # that contradict each other. Another lie. # You Mr.Keren, continue to trash Afro-American history # and I'll continue to trash the Holocaust story. I am not trashing Afro-American history; I am not a sadistic, hateful Nazi like our "Holocaust revisionists", whose pleasure in life is to spit on the graves of innocent men, women, and children, murdered because of hate and barbarism. -Danny Keren. -- Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. -Lu Xun. From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 10 16:58:36 PDT 1996 Article: 56340 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!inquo!nebo.vii.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: A revisionist FAQ (1) (Repost) Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4u3b1k$hq2@Vir.com> Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 01:05:33 GMT Lines: 21 I suggest looking at the image files of the Topf patent submitted shortly after the war. Topf, remember, is the firm that built the Auschwitz- Birkenau furnaces. This is for someone interested in the facts, not in "revisionist conjectures". http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?orgs/german/topf-und-soehne/images tp4907-lrg-1b.gif (ref) tp4907-lrg-2.gif (ref) tp4907-lrg-3.gif (ref) -Danny Keren. -- Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. -Lu Xun. From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 10 16:58:37 PDT 1996 Article: 56341 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!howland.erols.net!news1.erols.com!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: gassing evidence bears interest Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4u3gqb$f9d@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> <4ueu6p$kcd@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 18:58:47 GMT Lines: 50 You see Giwer - you stupid, lying slob - this is what we call research. Going and checking something, before shooting off your mouth and accusing others of lying. I take the chance to thank Mr. Van Alstine for posting the appropriate text; I am rather far from home and don't have Pressac's book here. mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes: # dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes: ### the ventilation grills of Krema III were tested in ### 1945 and cyanide compounds were discovered on them. ## It is interesting that you felt compelled to make that up. # I didn't make it up. I am not a worthless liar like you. From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) Document 54; _Technique_, p.233. The caption to the photo reads: "Rear view of one of the 145 galvenized plates, perforated by hand, which were set into and nailed to the wooden fresh air ducts in the upper part of Leichenkeller 1 of Krematorien II and III, now kept in PMO < > Block 25. Toxicological analyses were carried out in 1945 by the Cracow Forensic Institute (7 Copernicus Street) on 4 complete plates and 2 damaged ventilation orifices found in the ruins of Kremtorium II. After scraping the white substance that covered these objects back to the metal, 7.2 grammes of scrapings were collected and subjected to two qualitative analyses, which established the presence of cyanide compounds. The report, signed by Dr. Jan Z Robel, was written on 15th December 1945 and transmitted to the Examining Judge, Jan Sehn." -Danny Keren. -- Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. -Lu Xun. From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 10 18:49:33 PDT 1996 Article: 56355 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!news1.erols.com!howland.erols.net!usc!newshub.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Lagace's testimony Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4u38ba$fq1@Vir.com> <3209fff2.6459674@news.pacificnet.net> <320b47e2.2935741@news.pacificnet.net> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 19:23:03 GMT Lines: 22 tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes: # In such an event, the # burning body fats dripped into the waterproof ash pan and # continued to burn there. If the ash pan wasn't there, # however, the fluid would leak outside of the retort and # cause a fire outside the crematory. This is amazing. This is probably the best validation of the physical possibility of collecting burning fat (using large pans) in the "cremation ditches", and pouring it back on the corpses, to help the burning process. And who do we have to thank for posting it? -Danny Keren. -- Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. -Lu Xun. From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 10 18:49:34 PDT 1996 Article: 56356 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!news1.erols.com!howland.erols.net!usc!newshub.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Germar Rudolf Responds on Zyklon Outgassing Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4ugtd1$1qi@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 19:38:51 GMT Lines: 29 ehrlich606@aol.com (Ehrlich606) writes: # No one disputes that there are _holes_ the fact is that # they are not in the locations where they could conceivably # be induction holes, according to both of your photographs. I have not seen any proof for this. I know this is what "revisionists" claim, but I have not seen any proof for that. "Revisionists" also claim that Bischoff ordered corpses stored in a hot room, "so they will not freeze". My experience, after 5 years, is that "revisionists" are not only dumb, but pathological liars as well. I do not accept *anything* a "revisionist" says, before checking it. # Moreover, they have the rebar sticking out and so on. This is in other holes, created when the roof collapsed and where the supporting pillar went through it, as I understand. -Danny Keren. -- Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. -Lu Xun. From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 10 18:49:34 PDT 1996 Article: 56369 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: A revisionist FAQ (1) (Repost) Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4u3b1k$hq2@Vir.com> <4uh1n8$1le@Vir.com> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 20:29:43 GMT Lines: 38 Jean-Francois Beaulieu writes: # It is a fact that nowhere the cremation take less than 1 # our 1/4 to 1 hour 1/2 for a normal body. Nowhere in the # world to my knowledge. Excerpted from http://www.cremation.org: "A. The temperature at which cremations are done vary based upon the retort manufacturer, but most machines operate between 1,500 to 1,900 degrees F. The actual cremation time again varies depending upon the type of machine. Low capacity retorts take approximately 3 hours to complete a cremation while high capacity machines take less than one hour. In addition to the ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ type of retort, the size of the individual and the number of cremations conducted during the day also affect the time. For example, in the retort we operate, the first cremation of the day takes about two hours and the second takes about an hour. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Now bear in mind that this is current, commercial cremation, where great care is taken. In Auschwitz it was a different story. Re the Topf patent, I won't bother responding to your claims. As you people get more and more desperate, you start using arguments which are simply not worth replying to. One has to put the limit somewhere. -Danny Keren. -- Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. -Lu Xun. From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 10 19:40:02 PDT 1996 Article: 56382 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!news1.erols.com!howland.erols.net!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!newshub.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: gassing evidence bears interest Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4u3gqb$f9d@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> <4ueu6p$kcd@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> <4uheoq$gfa@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 20:16:52 GMT Lines: 16 mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes: # As Alec would say, the URL? Mr. Van Alstine already posted the text from Pressac. Learn to read, you fool. -Danny Keren. -- Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. -Lu Xun. From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 10 23:36:52 PDT 1996 Article: 56398 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!news1.erols.com!howland.erols.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: 'Finally, new and larger gas chambers were built' Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 22:37:44 GMT Lines: 51 Willi Mentz testifies about his days in Treblinka [Quoted in 'The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The Free Press, NY, 1988., p. 245-247] ----------------------------------------------------------------------- When I came to Treblinka the camp commandant was a doctor named Dr. Eberl. He was very ambitious. It was said that he ordered more transports than could be "processed" in the camp. That meant that trains had to wait outside the camp because the occupants of the previous transport had not yet all been killed. At the time it was very hot and as a result of the long wait inside the transport trains in the intense heat many people died. At the time whole mountains of bodies lay on the platform. The Hauptsturmfuehrer Christian Wirth came to Treblinka and kicked up a terrific row. And then one day Dr. Eberl was no longer there... For about two months I worked in the upper section of the camp and then after Eberl had gone everything in the camp was reorganized. The two parts of the camp were separated by barbed wire fences. Pine branches were used so that you could not see through the fences. The same thing was done along the route from the "transfer" area to the gas chambers... Finally, new and larger gas chambers were built. I think that there were now five or six larger gas chambers. I cannot say exactly how many people these large gas chambers held. If the small gas chambers could hold 80-100 people, the large ones could probably hold twice that number... Following the arrival of a transport, six to eight cars would be shunted into the camp, coming to a halt at the platform there. The commandant, his deputy Franz, Kuettner and Stadie or Maetzig would be here waiting as the transport came in. Further SS members were also present to supervise the unloading: for example, Genz and Belitz had to make absolutely sure that there was no one left in the car after the occupants had been ordered to get out. When the Jews had got off, Stadie or Maetzig would have a short word with them. They were told something to the effect that they were a resettlement transport, that they would be given a bath and that they would receive new clothes. They were also instructed to maintain quiet and discipline. They would continue their journey the following day. Then the transports were taken off to the so-called "transfer" area. The women had to undress in huts and the men out in the open. The women were than led through a passageway, known as the "tube", to the gas chambers. On the way they had to pass a hut where they had to hand in their jewellery and valuables.. -- Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. -Lu Xun. From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 11 01:33:39 PDT 1996 Article: 56409 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!news1.erols.com!howland.erols.net!agate!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Zyklon B: Kieselguhr & Gypsum Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4uie94$ibm@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 22:16:29 GMT Lines: 19 ehrlich606@aol.com (Ehrlich606) writes: # Why do you continue to neglect the fact that the 1933 # text was written at precisely the time when the diatomite # component was being replaced with gypsum to slow down the # evaporation time? Enough with this rubbish already. It has been pointed out to you a few times already that the Peters-Rasch paper is from 1941. Get a grip, Mr. Kennady. -Danny Keren. -- Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. -Lu Xun. From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 11 02:11:14 PDT 1996 Article: 3705 of alt.bible.prophecy Newsgroups: alt.christnet,alt.christnet.bible,alt.bible.prophecy,alt.religion.christian,talk.religion.misc,soc.culture.israel Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!freenet.unbc.edu!news.scn.org!news.abs.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!news.shkoo.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: 'Holocaust Revisionism' Nonsense (Re: Noah & other bible myths) Message-ID: Followup-To: alt.revisionism Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4t7glq$s7l@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> <4tkmh4$i0v@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com> <32086826.655900565@news.ezo.net> <4ubuk8$3fh@metroux.metrobbs.com> Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 23:41:10 GMT Lines: 23 Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.christnet:90273 alt.christnet.bible:47747 alt.bible.prophecy:3705 alt.religion.christian:110996 talk.religion.misc:140665 soc.culture.israel:40916 [Followup = alt.revisionism] goth@big10.metrobbs.com (paul goddard) writes: # The curater in charge of the alleged gas chamber at # Auschwitz who shows this to tourists admitted in private # and on video tape that the "gas chamber" was built after # the war and is a fraud. This is an outright lie; even "revisionists" admit that there are cyanide traces on the walls of the gas chamber. People were killed with cyanide gas in this room, although not as many as were killed in the gas chambers of Birkenau (Auschwitz II). -Danny Keren. -- Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. -Lu Xun. From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 11 02:11:17 PDT 1996 Article: 3712 of alt.bible.prophecy Newsgroups: alt.christnet,alt.christnet.bible,alt.bible.prophecy,alt.religion.christian,talk.religion.misc,soc.culture.israel Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!freenet.unbc.edu!news.scn.org!news.abs.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!news.shkoo.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.texas.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: 'Holocaust Revisionism' Nonsense (Re: Noah & other bible myths) Message-ID: Followup-To: alt.revisionism Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4t7glq$s7l@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> <4tkmh4$i0v@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com> <01bb7e8b$aaf5a5c0$29f612c7@jrjohn.cannet.com> <4toq3n$ef8@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com> Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 23:22:14 GMT Lines: 47 Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.christnet:90284 alt.christnet.bible:47751 alt.bible.prophecy:3712 alt.religion.christian:111004 talk.religion.misc:140671 soc.culture.israel:40925 [Followup = alt.revisionism] mario4@ix.netcom.com(Mario Martinez) writes: # In trying to prove this nonsense by being "objective" You're most probably referring to "revisionist" David Cole, of CA. He's a 25-year-old highschool dropout. I've read his stuff; it's rather silly. # He proceeds to indicate that if there was a holocaust it would # have been well known throught the following means: # # 1) Allied intelligence would have known about the holocaust # through the broken German codes(Enigma) The Brits certainly knew about the mass murder before the end of the war. # 2)Aerial photos from bombers would have photos of bodies in # the camp Well, there were plenty of bodies in the camps when the Allied soldiers got there! Moreover, there are no aerial photos of any massive death camp I know of but for Auschwitz; but you won't see any bodies there, as they were usually burned inside the crematorium buildings, in the numerous cremation furnaces. There's one photo, taken in the camp, showing a pile of bodies burned in the open (this was during a period in which the crematoriums couldn't handle the number of people being murdered). There's also the question of identifying corpses from such a distance. # 3) There would have been accounts from eyewitnesses. There most definitely are many such accounts. -Danny Keren. -- Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. -Lu Xun. From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 11 02:16:44 PDT 1996 Article: 56428 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.cloud9.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Them lovely "chimneys" - kr2a.jpg (0/1) Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4uhi8c$gfa@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> <4uie8k$ibj@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 22:11:12 GMT Lines: 44 ehrlich606@aol.com (Ehrlich606) writes: # The problem I have here is twofold: The aerial @ photographs show no indication of the Krema roofs # being covered with dirt. The photograph - at least the copy we have - is not of high enough quality to determine this. My feeling is that some kind of contrast stretching was applied to it (histogram equalization, maybe). # Second, neither a height of 23 inches or 6 inches # (with the dirt) would conceivably cast the kind of # *shadow* we see in the picture. There is no shadow. It's just a dark region, which looks larger than it really was, because of the strong blurring. One can easily verify this by examining the gray levels in a cross-section of the region. I tried to explain this to Giwer, but it is hopeless. His estimate of their size is off by a factor of about 3, which, well, is not too bad for him. The dark region is most probably due to a cover - tarpaulin, perhaps - on the covers of the chimneys. # Such dimensions also have nothing to do with the 3 x 4 # foot crates of roofing material in the by now famous # photograph. You have no idea and no proof whatsoever that they are crates of roofing material. You're simply inventing this. Let me offer an advice: don't try to comment on anything technical. This seems to be way out of your element. -Danny Keren. -- Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. -Lu Xun. From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 11 07:34:33 PDT 1996 Article: 56434 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!news1.erols.com!howland.erols.net!usc!newshub.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Lagace's testimony Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4u38ba$fq1@Vir.com> <3209fff2.6459674@news.pacificnet.net> <320b47e2.2935741@news.pacificnet.net> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 19:15:15 GMT Lines: 57 tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes: # Do I agree, "Yes or no?" Still waiting for an answer. # How can I agree with expert testimony if I'm not an expert? In other words, you're quite sure that Legace's theory about the corpses possibly igniting like a can of gasoline and burning the building down is a load of crap, but you're not honest enough to say so, right? You'll go with any load of crap and insanity that your fuehrers will put forward, now ain't that right? Is it standard conduct to heat up cremation furnaces before introducing new corpses? Yes or no? You're not going to answer this one as well, right? I am reposting yet again the excerpt from the www.cremation.org home page: "For example, in the retort we operate, the first cremation of the day takes about two hours and the second takes about an hour. That is because the retort already has a high internal temperature at the beginning of the second cremation". So? # I take it your angle is that this should support Holocaust # lies about people piled up in pits, on top of each other, in # the open air, that will continue to burn after the introduction # (splashing) of a flammable substance over the bodies. First, there's a difference between "burning" and "igniting and burning the building down". Corpses will burn; this is not the point. The point is whether they'll explode like a can of gasoline, which is what Legace claims. Large amounts of wood were also used. BTW, I have a photograph of large pyres of Germans, who died in the bombing of Dresden, and who were being burned in a manner strikingly similar to the way in which corpses were sometimes burned in the death camps. So now what? Now you people will *really* have to start claiming Dreseden's bombing is a hoax, right? -Danny Keren. -- Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. -Lu Xun. From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 11 07:34:34 PDT 1996 Article: 56435 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!nntp04.primenet.com!news.shkoo.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Giwer Reaches new Heights Of Insanity (Re: the Zyklon B Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4uegil$cra@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com> <4uhhvo$gfa@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 20:06:06 GMT Lines: 65 Summary: Giwer reflects on the strength of the SS-men, and reaches some amazing conclusions ----------------------------------------------------- mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes: # I have no idea what you are talking about. Both an # exponential and a polynomial curve fit are given. Extrapolated from one single (erroneous) data point. Didn't Rudolph himself agree in his e-mail to "ehrlich" that his conclusions were false? # As everyone should know, any curve can be represented by # any other curve with only quality of fit being of interest. I have a great deal of interest in fitting data. Perhaps you can explain what you wrote above. It has no mathematical meaning whatsoever. # If there is MORE accurate information in that paper, POST # THE GRAPH given in that paper. Post the paper at least. The paper is posted on the web for about 2 months now, as you know well. The most relevant and important piece of information there is that, even at very low temp., the whole HCN outgassed in "an hour, or at most two". And this is from 1941, so we're talking about WW2 era Zyklon, not some other product manufactured 50 years later. # Go take another look at it and note the amount released in # the 10-15 minute time frame which is the most common # description of the time frame. THEN calculate backwards # to find the amount that had to be dumped in to achieve # lethality in that time frame. # # And then, when you discover that two people could not carry # enough to do it, This is somewhat sad. Giwer, you're insane. Let's take a look at the Peters-Rasch paper (page 136). The second experiment they're discussing deals with a place with a volume of 4,311 cubic meters. That's more than 10 times the volume of the largest gas chambers. They used 43.2 Kg. But, remember, this is for a room more than 10 times larger than the gas chambers, plus you're talking about delousing, which requires a far higher concentration than homicidal gassing. So you're talking about 4 Kg or so. The SS-men could carry that up the ladder, I assume. Get a grip. You're going down the tubes. -Danny Keren. -- Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. -Lu Xun. From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 11 07:34:34 PDT 1996 Article: 56460 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!nntp04.primenet.com!news.shkoo.com!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: 'We are German citizens! You can't do this to us!' Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 04:08:16 GMT Lines: 35 Philip Mueller writes about the murder of the Gypsies in Birkenau [Quoted from "Auschwitz Inferno", p. 151] ----------------------------------------------------------------- One could see that most of the SS-men had a bad conscience. They hadn't shown any scruples about annihilating Jews, the killing of whom was now a daily routine for all of them, yet they clearly found it unpleasant and distressing to help exterminate people with whom they had been on quite good terms up to now. But in this dismal place there was no room for sentiment. The extermination routine took its usual course. [Hauptscharfuehrer] Moll and his helpers cocked their pistols and rifles and, in a way that allowed no misunderstanding, asked the people, who in the meanwhile had undressed, to leave the changing room at once and go into those rooms in which they were to be gassed. As they took their last walk, many wept in despair, others crossed themselves and prayed to God, and yet others, who even now were unwilling to come to terms with their inevitable fate, turned to the SS-men and, gesticulating wildly, shouted without stopping: "We are German citizens! You can't do this to us!". For a while desperate shouts and cries could be heard coming from the gas chambers until the gas had done its deadly work and chocked the last voice. -Danny Keren. -- Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. -Lu Xun. From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 11 07:34:35 PDT 1996 Article: 56475 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!portc01.blue.aol.com!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!news1.erols.com!howland.erols.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: SS-Obersturmfuehrer Franz Hoessler Testifies About Auschwitz Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 22:35:40 GMT Lines: 30 Testimony of SS-Obersturmfuehrer Franz Hoessler [Quoted in "The Belsen Trial" - Edited by R. Phillips, William Hodge and Company, 1949, p. 714-715] ---------------------------------------------------------------- Everyone in the camp knew about the gas chamber at Auschwitz, but at no time did I take part in the selection of prisoners who were to go to the gas chambers and then be cremated. Whilst I was there selection of prisoners for the gas chambers was done by Dr. Klein, Dr. Mengele and other young doctors whose names I do not know. I have attended these parades, but my job was merely to keep order. Often women were paraded naked in front of the doctors and persons selected by the doctors were sent to the gas chamber. . . . I made many complaints to Hoess about the way people were being sent to the gas chamber, but I was told it was not my business. -Danny Keren. -- Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. -Lu Xun. From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 11 07:34:36 PDT 1996 Article: 56477 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!portc01.blue.aol.com!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!news1.erols.com!howland.erols.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: 'Hitler's Army' Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 22:44:08 GMT Lines: 15 Did anyone read Omer Bartov's book "Hitler's Army"? Also, does anyone have exact statistics about the number of German soldiers executed by the German Army? Thanks, -Danny Keren. -- Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. -Lu Xun. From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 11 11:33:30 PDT 1996 Article: 56499 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news.ironhorse.com!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.dacom.co.kr!news.kreonet.re.kr!usenet.etri.re.kr!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!ames!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Them lovely "chimneys" - kr2a.jpg (1/1) Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4uhi9k$gfa@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 20:20:43 GMT Lines: 10 Your point being? -Danny Keren. -- Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. -Lu Xun. From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 11 12:13:57 PDT 1996 Article: 56535 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Shhh! Don't mention it Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <320b3e8f.548700@news.pacificnet.net> <320c94a9.2618604@news.pacificnet.net> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 21:14:20 GMT Lines: 18 tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes: # Gas chambers employing HCN may be fact, but doing it with # pellets is not part of the fact. It's the same gas, zeide. It will kill people never mind what its source was. Get a grip. -Danny Keren. -- Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. -Lu Xun. From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 11 13:25:18 PDT 1996 Article: 56557 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: auschwitz:myths and facts Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4t92d2$9o5@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com> <4u5keo$lqu@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com> Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 21:30:38 GMT Lines: 23 mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes: Giwer claimed I posted something. When asked to present it, he writes: # Your memory gets very short when you want it to be # short. Do you really think I keep copies of everything # you post? Listen, you senile piece of dreck. If you're accusing me of posting something, you better have the proof. You bloody idiot. Look up dejanews, if you can't recall where I posted it. -Danny Keren. -- Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. -Lu Xun. From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 11 15:52:41 PDT 1996 Article: 56583 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!news.shkoo.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Legace and His Exploding Corpses Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 21:04:31 GMT Lines: 44 This is from the Internet Cremation Society FAQ: Q. At what temperature is the cremation done and is this a standard or do some facilities vary? How long does the actual cremation process take and does this also vary with temperature? A. The temperature at which cremations are done vary based upon the retort manufacturer, but most machines operate between 1,500 to 1,900 degrees F. The actual cremation time again varies depending upon the type of machine. Low capacity retorts take approximately 3 hours to complete a cremation while high capacity machines take less than one hour. In addition to the type of retort, the size of the individual and the number of cremations conducted during the day also affect the time. For example, in the retort we operate, the first cremation of the day takes about two hours and the second takes about an hour. That is because the retort already has a high internal temperature at the beginning of the second cremation. I guess these folks never heard about the "brilliant" theory offered by "revisionist scholar", Ivan Legace: namely, that corpses may ignite like a can of gasoline when inserted into a hot cremation furnace, hence making it difficult to cremate many corpses one after the other (as was done in Auschwitz-Birkenau). My question still stands: can Legace present any evidence whatsoever to his "theory"? Any such case of a corpse inserted into a hot cremation furnace igniting in such a manner? What do our local "revisionist scholars" say? This is, after all, Legace's "strongest" argument. Comment? Ole Kreiberg may want to respond; he brought this matter up. -Danny Keren. -- Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. -Lu Xun. From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 11 17:24:26 PDT 1996 Article: 56647 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,alt.revisionism,talk.politics.european-union Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: The Holocaust Cult and the EU Message-ID: Followup-To: alt.revisionism Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <8b7cc$8321b.3aa@news.comet.net> Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 22:41:17 GMT Lines: 17 Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.german:82461 alt.revisionism:56647 talk.politics.european-union:5458 georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy) writes: # According to German records, slightly more non Jewish # Poles died in Auschwitz than Jewish. This is absolutely ridiculous. About 100,000 non-Jewish Poles were murdered in Auschwitz-Birkenau, as compared to about 1 million Jews. Unless you're referring to Polish Jews only; many of the Jewish victims were from Hungary, Greece, Holland and other countries. -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 11 17:35:18 PDT 1996 Article: 39025 of alt.politics.white-power Newsgroups: alt.fan.ernst-zundel,alt.revisionism,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.jewish,talk.politics.guns,talk.politics.libertarian,talk.abortion,alt.christnet Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!gatech!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism Message-ID: Followup-To: alt.revisionism Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4ubqq0$ndv@news1.panix.com> <4ubti0$pkf@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com> <4ujjeu$8k1@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com> Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 22:15:07 GMT Lines: 41 Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.fan.ernst-zundel:2505 alt.revisionism:56658 alt.conspiracy:77036 alt.politics.white-power:39025 soc.culture.jewish:67585 talk.politics.guns:297599 talk.politics.libertarian:110745 talk.abortion:181147 alt.christnet:90785 mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes: # You mean like the name who was gassed six times and lived # to tell about it? Giwer applies the oldest "revisionist" trick in the book - use one (most probably false) testimony to argue that all the events of the Holocaust never took place. Never mind that, as he knows well, the person who made this testimony was only 11-years-old when the war ended, which obviously makes him a far less reliable witness. But Giwer will not mention this, of course. As has been posted here in the past, every event of such kind will produce some erroneous testimonies. Like these crazy testimonies about Dresden's bombing: people melting into "puddles of melted human flesh", or turning into a "fine layer of ash", although the fire didn't even touch them! So now what? Dresden's bombing is a "hoax" too? # Be the first provide physical evidence that the subject # happened. There's plenty of evidence, including the cyanide traces on the walls of the Auschwitz-Birkenau gas chambers. And Giwer knows this. For a typical "Giwerian argument" about the Holocaust, see below. And bear in mind that Giwer claims to have an IQ of 163. -Danny Keren. -- In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar" in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents. From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 11 17:58:51 PDT 1996 Article: 56656 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: A revisionist FAQ (1) (Repost) Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4u3b1k$hq2@Vir.com> <4uh1n8$1le@Vir.com> <320e0f94.5338270@news.pacificnet.net> Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 21:04:13 GMT Lines: 37 tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes: # 16 to 1, Mr.Keren. Not really. The 15 minutes for 4 corpses is probably an underestimate, and most estimates I've seen give a longer time. What you apparently cannot realize is that, today, a few corpses aren't burned in the same furnace, but this is out of respect for the dead, and the need to collect the ashes of each individual. There were no such considerations in Auschwitz. Plus, in Auschwitz-Birkenau, a high percentage of the victims were children and infants, who weigh very little and take up a very little space. The question is, were the 52 cremation furnaces enough to burn a great number of corpses daily? The answer is, obviously, yes; even if one assumes 12 hours per day per furnace, and 2 corpses per hour, that still gives 52*12*2 = 1,248 corpses per day; and this is a conservative estimate, much lower than what the SS had estimated. No one builds so many crematoriums and so many cremation furnaces unless he is planning mass murder. -Danny Keren. -- In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar" in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents. From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 11 17:58:52 PDT 1996 Article: 56658 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.fan.ernst-zundel,alt.revisionism,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.jewish,talk.politics.guns,talk.politics.libertarian,talk.abortion,alt.christnet Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!gatech!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism Message-ID: Followup-To: alt.revisionism Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4ubqq0$ndv@news1.panix.com> <4ubti0$pkf@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com> <4ujjeu$8k1@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com> Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 22:15:07 GMT Lines: 41 Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.fan.ernst-zundel:2505 alt.revisionism:56658 alt.conspiracy:77036 alt.politics.white-power:39025 soc.culture.jewish:67585 talk.politics.guns:297599 talk.politics.libertarian:110745 talk.abortion:181147 alt.christnet:90785 mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes: # You mean like the name who was gassed six times and lived # to tell about it? Giwer applies the oldest "revisionist" trick in the book - use one (most probably false) testimony to argue that all the events of the Holocaust never took place. Never mind that, as he knows well, the person who made this testimony was only 11-years-old when the war ended, which obviously makes him a far less reliable witness. But Giwer will not mention this, of course. As has been posted here in the past, every event of such kind will produce some erroneous testimonies. Like these crazy testimonies about Dresden's bombing: people melting into "puddles of melted human flesh", or turning into a "fine layer of ash", although the fire didn't even touch them! So now what? Dresden's bombing is a "hoax" too? # Be the first provide physical evidence that the subject # happened. There's plenty of evidence, including the cyanide traces on the walls of the Auschwitz-Birkenau gas chambers. And Giwer knows this. For a typical "Giwerian argument" about the Holocaust, see below. And bear in mind that Giwer claims to have an IQ of 163. -Danny Keren. -- In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar" in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents. From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 11 17:58:53 PDT 1996 Article: 56673 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.society.conservatism,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.usa,alt.conspiracy,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.equality Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: THE HYPOCRISY OF THE JEW Message-ID: Followup-To: alt.revisionism Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <31F2BDE2.447C@ix.netcom.com> <01bb8647.1c6fa760$5fa11dcb@peasant> <4ui345$21j@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <4ujc08$qco@opera.iinet.net.au> Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 22:21:30 GMT Lines: 18 Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.society.conservatism:49236 alt.politics.usa.constitution:80627 alt.politics.nationalism.white:27076 alt.revisionism:56673 alt.politics.white-power:39037 soc.culture.usa:90390 alt.conspiracy:77058 talk.politics.misc:428308 reverend@iinet.net.au (peter wheeler) writes: # When those Jew Boys saw Jacko moonwalking towards their # holy grail they went beserk and tries to lynch him. I think you're confusing Michael Jackson with Ciciolina... but that is somewhat understandable :-). -Danny Keren. -- In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar" in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents. From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 11 21:46:56 PDT 1996 Article: 56684 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.cloud9.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Wir scheissen auf die Freiheit der Judenrepublik Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4uil7o$gbi@epimetheus.algonet.se> Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 21:12:04 GMT Lines: 18 hebe@algonet.se writes: # I don't know if my english is the best but, I ask all # revisionists a question: how do you pinheads dismiss texts # like this, when you're denying the Holocaust? The Holocaust # happened! They know that. And they want it to happen again. -Danny Keren. -- In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar" in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents. From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 11 21:46:57 PDT 1996 Article: 56686 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.fan.ernst-zundel,alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4ubqq0$ndv@news1.panix.com> <4ubti0$pkf@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com> <4ujmcm$8k1@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com> Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 22:30:01 GMT Lines: 35 Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.fan.ernst-zundel:2511 alt.revisionism:56686 mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes: # A quick suggestion is that they were guerilla fighters and # died in a reprisal. The rules of warfare at the time # prohibited guerilla fighters and resistance movements. No, no, Giwer. That won't do. 1) Jager's report explicitly mentions a huge number of Jewish women and children executed by his Einsatzkommando. 2) Himmler's report to Hitler includes a breakdown of the different categories of victims. Partisans etc. are listed in a separate category. But 363,000 Jews are also listed as being executed, during the four months covered by the report. 3) Letter from Inspector of Armaments in the Ukraine to General of Infantry, Thomas, December 2 1941: clearly states that the Jews did not represent a danger to the German Army. You're a very stupid, very evil, very sick person, Matt Giwer. I only pray that your children (if you have any) are better than you. -Danny Keren. -- In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar" in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents. From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 11 21:46:58 PDT 1996 Article: 56701 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.umbc.edu!haven.umd.edu!news5.digex.net!news2.digex.net!howland.erols.net!swrinde!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Auschwitz Myths and Facts Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <320D0765.3492@kaiwan.com> Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 21:33:54 GMT Lines: 48 Notes From Diary of SS-Doctor Kremer, while in Auschwitz ['The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The Free Press, NY, 1988, p. 256-268] ---------------------------------------------------------------- 2 September 1942 3.00 a.m. attended my first Sonderaktion. Dante's Inferno seems to me almost a comedy compared to this. They don't call Auschwitz the extermination camp for nothing! 5 September 1942 In the morning attended a Sonderaktion from the women's concentration camp (Muslims); the most dreadful of horrors. Hschf. Thilo -- army doctor -- was right when he said to me this is the 'anus mundi'. In the evening towards 8.00 attended another Sonderaktion from Holland. ['Muslims' does not mean "practicing Islam"; this is the way the SS referred to emaciated people]. 10 October 1942 Extracted and fixed fresh live material from liver, spleen and pancreas... 11 October 1942 Today, Sunday, there was roast hare for lunch -- a real fat leg -- with dumplings and red cabbage for 1.25 RM. 12 October 1942 Second inoculation against typhus, later on in the evening severe generalized reaction (fever). Despite this in the night attended a further Sonderaktion from Holland (1,600 persons). Ghastly scenes in front of the last bunker! That was the 10th Sonderaktion. 13 November 1942 Extracted fresh live material (liver, spleen and pancreas) from a previously photographed, severely atrophied Jewish prisoner aged eighteen. Fixed as always, liver and spleen in Carnoy and pancreas in Zenker (Prisoner No. 68,030). From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 11 21:46:59 PDT 1996 Article: 56702 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.umbc.edu!haven.umd.edu!news5.digex.net!news2.digex.net!howland.erols.net!swrinde!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Auschwitz Myths and Facts Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <320D0765.3492@kaiwan.com> Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 21:34:36 GMT Lines: 26 Letter from SS-Sturmbannfuehrer Bischoff, of the Auschwitz construction department, to SS General Kammler, January 29, 1943 [The Final Solution: The Attempt to Exterminate the Jews of Europe, 1939-1945 - G. Reitlinger, South Brunswick, T. Yosellof, 1968, p. 158-159] -------------------------------------------------------------------- Crematorium No. 2. The completed furnaces have been started up in the presence of Engineer Prufer from Messers. Topf (of Erfurt). The planks cannot yet be moved from the ceiling of the mortuary cellar on account of frost, but this is not important, as the gassing cellar can be used for that purpose. The ventilation plant has been held up by restrictions on rail transport, but the installation should be ready by February 20th. Letter from SS-Sturmbannfuehrer Bischoff, March 6 1943 [Auschwitz: Technique and operation of the gas chambers - J.C Pressac, the Beate Klarsfeld Foundation, NY, 1989, p. 434] ----------------------------------------------------------------- ... order of 6/3/1943 concerning the delivery of a gas tight door 100 x 192 cm for cellar I of Krematorium III, to be produced to the identical pattern and dimensions as the cellar door of Krematorium II which is situated opposite, with peephole of double 8 mm glass, with rubber sealing strip and frame. From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 11 21:46:59 PDT 1996 Article: 56706 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Death in Mauthausen Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <839684926snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 22:48:56 GMT Lines: 47 Alexander Baron writes: # page 54: in the 1950s and 60s there was "a regrettable # confusion...which often resulted in the shower room [at # Maidanek] being presented as a gas chamber..." Possible, although I wouldn't take Pressac as a 100 percent accurate source. As I've said many times in the past, the main value of his work is the large collection of documents in it. And if someone made such a mistake, so what? # page 55: "The assistant director of the museum, in speaking # to me affirms that this gas chamber was hardly used, hardly # used in the slightest, which means that it was not really # used at all. This fiction is maintained in order not to # undermine the popular belief that a crematorium needs to # have a homicidal gas chamber to go with it..." Before I respond, what camp and what gas chamber is being discusses here? I agree that a cremation furnace does not have to have a gas chamber attached to it. Your point? # Are you sure a similar thing didn't happen at Mauthausen, # Dan? Shrug. Prove it. # Hasn't the immediate post-war death toll of 4 million for this # one camp been drastically reduced? I was not aware of this figure. If it was indeed given, it is absurd. This is what we have historians for, to correct such errors. Like the number of victims in Dresden, ranging from 25,000 to 500,000. This is what we have historians for. This is why we do research. To find the truth. Not to claim that because someone made some error, the whole story is a hoax. -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 11 21:47:00 PDT 1996 Article: 56708 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news.ironhorse.com!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!nntp04.primenet.com!news.shkoo.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: auschwitz:myths and facts Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4uer5l$ndi@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> <4uhad7$si7@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 20:15:28 GMT Lines: 43 I wrote to Giwer: ## It's just a statement: you're a lying piece of trash who ## accuses people of posting things they never posted. Giwer knows it's true; he can't deny it or defend himself, so he resorts to posting Morgen's testimony. Is there any psychologist in the audience? This man is obviously insane. I was also wondering if Giwer's lies about me having posted this-and-that (which I never posted), are considered libel, or, at the least, a violation of internet ethics? I'm not talking about censorship here; I'm talking about a filthy liar who accuses me of posting things I never posted. I do not mean to censor Giwer, but should lies like this be tolerated? # "MORGEN: These places were faked cloakrooms, and the person # was given a check at each one so that the people believed # that they would get their things back ... When the last # one was in, the doors were shut and the gas was let # into the room. As soon as death had set in, the ventilators # were started. When the air could be breathed again, the # doors were opened, and the Jewish workers removed the bodies. # By means of a special procedure... they were burned in the # open air without the use of fuel." Has it occurred to you that he's talking about fuel as in gasoline etc, and not wood? More so since your quotation is truncated, and the original includes Morgen's reference to Wirth having invented the method, and Wirth's men did use large amounts of wood to burn corpses in the death camps? -Danny Keren. -- Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. -Lu Xun. From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 11 21:47:01 PDT 1996 Article: 56709 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: the Zyklon B graph - zb.jpg (1/1) Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4ugtcu$1qe@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 19:34:03 GMT Lines: 57 ehrlich606@aol.com (Ehrlich606) writes: # dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) # OK, then list some functions that decrease faster which will # still have 80% to 90% of the product remaining after two # hours. I gather that is what he is getting at. But Peters-Rasch say there was no residue after an hour or at most two. # What is the *much more accurate* numbers from the # Peters-Rasch paper? See above; plus other numbers about the density of the HCN in the air. # There are, as I recall, without alleged functions, graphs, # or specificity in the matter of outgassing. Better no graphs than graphs extrapolated from one (erroneous) point of data. ## It also contradicts the information in Dr. Peter's book ## that the large part evaporates in half-an-hour. # Yes, and that information was provided in 1933, # at _precisely_ the time when gypsum was being added to # the diatomite to slow down the evaporation rate. We're talking about the Erco carrier, aren't we? Moreover, the Peters-Rasch paper is from 1941, as noted already. Your claim is irrelevant. # Given your prior dismissals to the other posts along these # lines (lies, irrelevant, contradicted by, etc.), I have to # say that I consider the guarded concession above as # hysterically funny. Sigh. I'm just trying to be accurate. The "revisionists" used to claim it would take "days" for the HCN to outgas. Now they dropped this, and the "debate" is about 37% in half-hour vs. say, 70-80% in half hour. There's no "guarded concession" on my part, but for in your hallucinations. All I'm saying is that even if the 37% figure was correct, the Zyklon would still kill the people fast enough. I don't suppose you disagree? -Danny Keren. -- Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. -Lu Xun. From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 11 21:47:02 PDT 1996 Article: 56711 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.cloud9.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Except from Rudolf Report -- Zyklon B Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4u7v5l$f7d@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <320c8ca2.563475@news.pacificnet.net> <4uju8p$8k1@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com> Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 21:25:56 GMT Lines: 51 mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes: # The self proclaimed PhD mathematician My Ph.D is in computer science, as I have said a few times. # has not posted one # calculation since I have been here this time. Yes I did. # I would think by now it is clear this person has not the # slightest concept of math. I understand your anger and frustration. I understand your inferiority complex. I realize that you are a loser; your life is behind you. Why would a genius such as yourself retire at the age of 46. One really wonders at that. You take pride at being an engineer, as I recall. I have a (rather subjective, I admit) definition of what a good engineer is: someone who really understands the concept of a derivative. Most engineers don't. I don't believe you do. So, you seek revenge by saying that I don't know anything about math. Fine. That's your right. Since what we're discussing here is fitting data, you may want to look at my paper about this, presented at the 1995 conference on maximum entropy and Bayesian methods, before you pass judgement on my mathematical skills. I guess that computing integrals over infinite-dimensional Hilbert spaces and stuff like that is child's play for you, so there should be no difficulties? I'd be happy to send you a postscript file of the paper. Just let me know. -Danny Keren. -- In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar" in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents. From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 11 21:47:02 PDT 1996 Article: 56716 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Wir scheissen auf die Freiheit der Judenrepublik Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4uil7o$gbi@epimetheus.algonet.se> <320D09E3.69F4@kaiwan.com> Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 21:51:04 GMT Lines: 27 Greg Raven writes: # Finally, people from all walks of live, of all religious faiths, # and all racial backgrounds, agree with the revisionist view of # the Holocaust. Category 15, Topic 4 Message 33 Fri Mar 13, 1992 G.RAVEN at 03:02 EST My only concern is in going after the facts. As such, I am not interested in defending Adolf Hitler to my dying breath. I will say, however, that he was a great man ... certainly greater than Churchill and FDR put together, and possibly the greatest leader of our century, if not longer. This is not to say that he was perfect, but he about the best thing that could have happened to Germany. -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 11 21:47:03 PDT 1996 Article: 56722 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Let's Hear Both Sides of the Holocaust story Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <320D0B4A.73C7@kaiwan.com> Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 21:48:17 GMT Lines: 54 Greg Raven writes: There are so many lies in this old piece of garbage. Let's address a few: # We now also know that the postwar "confession" of Auschwitz # commandant Rudolf Hoess, which is a crucial part of the # Holocaust extermination story, is a false statement that # was obtained by torture. (note 2) There's no evidence - repeat, no evidence whatsoever - that Hoess, or any other SS-men or women, whose testimony is posted here, was tortured during his/her trial. Moreover, most of those who testified about the death camps did so in German courts. Not even the craziest "revisionist" suggests they were "tortured" by the Germans. Re Hoess, looking at his memoirs, it is obvious that they were not dictated to him by the Soviets or the Poles; I can elaborate more if there's interest. # These unfortunate people were victims, not of an extermination # program, but of disease and malnutrition brought on by the # complete collapse of Germany in the final months of the war. We've been through this. The death rate was 10 percent per month in July, August, September 1942, in the "work camps". Long before the final months of the war. The SS-men and women didn't starve in the final months of the war. Nor did the German civilians near the camps. # At the end of the Second World War, the Allies confiscated # a tremendous quantity of German documents dealing with Germany's # wartime Jewish policy, which was sometimes officially referred # to as the "final solution." But not a single German document # has ever been found which even refers to an extermination program. How odd. A document stating that Jews "unfit for work" will be killed with poison gas, is not evidence for an extermination program? A report about one Nazi unit executing over 130,000 Jews, third of them children, during 5 months, is not evidence for an extermination program? Sigh. Raven, you're such a stupid little liar. All you can do is repost this old dreck, over and over again. Moran and Giwer are semi-retarded, but they at least *try* to debate. -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 11 21:47:04 PDT 1996 Article: 56729 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!nic.wat.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!news.shkoo.com!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: gassing evidence bears interest Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4u3gqb$f9d@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> <4uheoq$gfa@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> <4ujifm$8k1@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 03:39:36 GMT Lines: 26 mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes: # Yes, I read it. It is of no value to this discussion. # # I have already stipulated that cyanide is useful in # fumigating morgues. One only wonders why only one "morgue" had a gas-tight door. Moreover, some of your fuehrers now say it was really a delousing chamber, while others say it was an air-raid shelter. They don't seem to be able to decide. And you lied when you said no such forensic examinations were undertaken. But you're a pathological liar. We know that. -Danny Keren. -- In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar" in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents. From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 11 22:28:48 PDT 1996 Article: 2511 of alt.fan.ernst-zundel Newsgroups: alt.fan.ernst-zundel,alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4ubqq0$ndv@news1.panix.com> <4ubti0$pkf@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com> <4ujmcm$8k1@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com> Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 22:30:01 GMT Lines: 35 Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.fan.ernst-zundel:2511 alt.revisionism:56686 mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes: # A quick suggestion is that they were guerilla fighters and # died in a reprisal. The rules of warfare at the time # prohibited guerilla fighters and resistance movements. No, no, Giwer. That won't do. 1) Jager's report explicitly mentions a huge number of Jewish women and children executed by his Einsatzkommando. 2) Himmler's report to Hitler includes a breakdown of the different categories of victims. Partisans etc. are listed in a separate category. But 363,000 Jews are also listed as being executed, during the four months covered by the report. 3) Letter from Inspector of Armaments in the Ukraine to General of Infantry, Thomas, December 2 1941: clearly states that the Jews did not represent a danger to the German Army. You're a very stupid, very evil, very sick person, Matt Giwer. I only pray that your children (if you have any) are better than you. -Danny Keren. -- In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar" in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents. From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 12 07:53:48 PDT 1996 Article: 56735 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Giwer's Lies About My Articles (Re: A revisionist FA Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4u3b1k$hq2@Vir.com> <4uh1n8$1le@Vir.com> <320e06f7.13579837@news.inetport.com> <4uld7l$p2k@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 00:39:30 GMT Lines: 40 mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes: # Of course we all agree, now that Keren has sworn to it, # that modern methods are 16 times slower than the method that # used Nazi physics. I haven't. You're a liar. One can accept when a blatant misquote like this happens once, or twice. With you, it's a rule. The only conclusion: you're lying intentionally. You're a lying piece of scum. Don't ever believe what this person writes. He's a pathological liar. When confronted with this fact, he doesn't even try to defend himself, or deny it. Anyone willing to believe his crap about his father being ill after the phone call allegedly made to him? Anyone willing to believe one single thing this piece of dreck is posting? He probably invented this crap, to gather sympathy. Show us the tube that was allegedly shoved up your dad's nose, Giwer. Then we may believe you. Maybe. Didn't the piece of dreck claim to have a daughter, and later posted that he doesn't have one at all? Who can believe anything the dreck posts? -Danny Keren. -- In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar" in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents. From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 12 07:53:49 PDT 1996 Article: 56751 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.fan.ernst-zundel,alt.revisionism,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.jewish,talk.politics.guns,talk.politics.libertarian,talk.abortion,alt.christnet Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!lll-winken.llnl.gov!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism Message-ID: Followup-To: alt.revisionism Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4ubqq0$ndv@news1.panix.com> <4ubti0$pkf@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com> <4umgee$rtl@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 07:07:37 GMT Lines: 49 Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.fan.ernst-zundel:2522 alt.revisionism:56751 alt.conspiracy:77139 alt.politics.white-power:39081 soc.culture.jewish:67643 talk.politics.guns:297718 talk.politics.libertarian:110878 talk.abortion:181170 alt.christnet:90897 mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes: # So you agree there is no physical evidence of gassing. # Very good. At least you are honest. He didn't admit anything of the sort. As usual, you are lying and attributing to people things they never said. All this "forensic evidence" is a lame joke and you know it. You cannot supply any such "forensic evidence" to any event in WW2. You were asked to provide such evidence to the fact that Dresden was bombed, and you could not produce anything. Zero. Zilch. The funny thing is that, for the gassings at Auschwitz- Birkenau, there's *more* of this type of evidence than for your average historical event: the cyanide compounds on the walls of the gas chambers. # Take a random sampling of camp inmates and ask of # gassing is happening. 70% say yes. And your source for the 70% is? None. You've invented it. # Take a random samply of US Blacks and ask if AIDS was # created by the government to exterminate Blacks. # 70% say yes. Source? Not that this is really relevant, I'm just curious to know if it's true. Now, is this some kind of a new Giwerian argument? If more than 50% of the population believe something is true, this means it's not true? Heck, there goes WW2. After all, more than 50% of the population think it took place. You're stupid beyond words. See below. -Danny Keren. -- In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar" in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents. From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 12 07:53:49 PDT 1996 Article: 56755 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Giwer's Science Hour Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 02:40:03 GMT Lines: 56 More "scientific hilites" from Matt "dreck" Giwer: From: mgiwer@combase.com (Matt Giwer) Message-Id: <4kru6f$k88@wi.combase.com> dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote: >According to an excerpt from the patent mailed to me (this >is from the original, 1922 patent), most of the HCN is released >within 10 minutes. According to "revisionist" Germar Rudoplh, >in a temperature of 20 degrees, Zyklon-B releases 40 percent >in the first half-hour. He seems to rely on information sent >to him from experts in Germany; I'll try to contact them myself. >There is more information to support the faster release rates; >I'll post it soon. Contact them quickly. It not clear how there could be any release at a 20 degrees where HCN is still a liquid. And keep in mind that it will be an exponential release if it is warm enough. That is, the second half hour would be another 40% of the remaining 60% and so forth each half hour. The stupid piece of dreck claims that, at a temperature of 20 degrees, no HCN will be released from the Zyklon. Can anyone believe how stupid the dreck is? Even at far lower temperatures, we know that the HCN evaporates pretty fast. Zyklon-B was routinely used at far lower temperatures than 20 degrees. The dreck knows this. The piece of dreck is not only a pathological liar who routinely slanders people, he's also very stupid. And the dreck is probably going to reply to this by posting something totally irrelevant. That's what he does when he has no answer. Yo, dreck, post Morgen's testimony again. You know, the one with the important part carefully edited out. -Danny Keren. -- In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar" in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents. From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 12 07:53:50 PDT 1996 Article: 56781 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!imci2!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Giwer Reaches new Heights Of Insanity (Re: the Zyklon B Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4uegil$cra@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com> <4uhhvo$gfa@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> <4uk2df$8k1@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com> Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 20:45:43 GMT Lines: 41 mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes: # If you do not understand the r value of a curve fit then # you do not understand a thing. You have never heard of # the deviance of the data from the chosen curve fit? Do # you wish to continue with your claim? Do believe me: I know much more about fitting data with curves, or surfaces, than you. If you have a coherent claim of some kind, present it. # From a PhD in math who never heard of the rms # "r"esidual values of deviation from the chosen curve # fit model, I am hardly impressed. To quote, "BAWAWA"! Do tell me about the residual. Do tell me about the reliability of fitting a data set with a curve. Go ahead, amuse us. # So where is what you were challenged to present? I presented it. Are you still claiming the four SS-men together couldn't carry 4 Kg of Zyklon up the ladder? Why don't you show us your calculations? That should be a riot. -Danny Keren. -- Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. -Lu Xun. From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 12 07:53:51 PDT 1996 Article: 56807 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!overload.lbl.gov!agate!howland.erols.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: All Roads Lead to Zero Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <320b3feb.896046@news.pacificnet.net> <4uk421$8k1@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com> <4ukoat$9hr@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com> <4uldnj$p2k@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com> Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 21:10:01 GMT Lines: 41 mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) wrote: # 16 times faster than the best of modern technology # according to Keren. Yet another lie from our pathological liar. I can only repeat my response to Moran: Not really. The 15 minutes for 4 corpses is probably an underestimate, and most estimates I've seen give a longer time. What you apparently cannot realize is that, today, a few corpses aren't burned in the same furnace, but this is out of respect for the dead, and the need to collect the ashes of each individual. There were no such considerations in Auschwitz. Plus, in Auschwitz-Birkenau, a high percentage of the victims were children and infants, who weigh very little and take up a very little space. The question is, were the 52 cremation furnaces enough to burn a great number of corpses daily? The answer is, obviously, yes; even if one assumes 12 hours per day per furnace, and 2 corpses per hour, that still gives 52*12*2 = 1,248 corpses per day; and this is a conservative estimate, much lower than what the SS had estimated. No one builds so many crematoriums and so many cremation furnaces unless he is planning mass murder. -Danny Keren. -- In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar" in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents. From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 12 07:53:52 PDT 1996 Article: 56813 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.fan.ernst-zundel,alt.revisionism,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.jewish,talk.politics.guns,talk.politics.libertarian,talk.abortion,alt.christnet Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!tribune.usask.ca!decwrl!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: The Giwer Science Hour (Re: The Department Of Defense Wan Message-ID: Followup-To: alt.revisionism Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4ubqq0$ndv@news1.panix.com> <4ueopt$lf3@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.co <4umhht$rtl@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 08:48:27 GMT Lines: 61 Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.fan.ernst-zundel:2540 alt.revisionism:56813 alt.conspiracy:77207 alt.politics.white-power:39117 soc.culture.jewish:67685 talk.politics.guns:297832 talk.politics.libertarian:110933 talk.abortion:181199 alt.christnet:90953 mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes: # But as you are completely ignorant of any science, including # chemisty, you have no way of judging the matter. The following proves that highschool chemistry is way beyond Giwer: From: mgiwer@combase.com (Matt Giwer) Message-Id: <4kru6f$k88@wi.combase.com> dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote: >According to an excerpt from the patent mailed to me (this >is from the original, 1922 patent), most of the HCN is released >within 10 minutes. According to "revisionist" Germar Rudoplh, >in a temperature of 20 degrees, Zyklon-B releases 40 percent >in the first half-hour. He seems to rely on information sent >to him from experts in Germany; I'll try to contact them myself. >There is more information to support the faster release rates; >I'll post it soon. Contact them quickly. It not clear how there could be any release at a 20 degrees where HCN is still a liquid. And keep in mind that it will be an exponential release if it is warm enough. That is, the second half hour would be another 40% of the remaining 60% and so forth each half hour. Giwer claims that, at a temperature of 20 degrees, no HCN will be released from the Zyklon. Can anyone believe how stupid Giwer is? Even at far lower temperatures, we know that the HCN evaporates pretty fast. Zyklon-B was routinely used at far lower temperatures than 20 degrees. Giwer knows this. Giwer is not only a pathological liar who routinely slanders people, he's also very stupid. And he's is probably going to reply to this by posting something totally irrelevant. That's what he does when he has no answer. Yo, Giwer, post Morgen's testimony again. You know, the one with the important part carefully edited out. -Danny Keren. -- In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar" in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents. From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 12 07:53:52 PDT 1996 Article: 56822 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.fan.ernst-zundel,alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4ujmcm$8k1@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com> <4umg8f$rtl@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 09:33:57 GMT Lines: 66 Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.fan.ernst-zundel:2542 alt.revisionism:56822 mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes: # dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes: ## 1) Jager's report explicitly mentions a huge number of ## Jewish women and children executed by his Einsatzkommando. # That is called a reprisal. The same thing was done in France. You stupid dreck. Jager's unit - ONE unit - killed over 130,000 Jews, a third of them children, during five months, in one area. This is "reprisal"? Against what? When did the Nazis do anything like this in France? # Perhaps you could post that some day in your copious free time? Report No. 51 of Reichsfuehrer-SS Himmler to Hitler about mass executions in the east, 1942 [Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military Tribunals - Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1949-1953, Vol. XIII, p. 269-272] ---------------------------------------------------------------- August September October November Prisoners executed after interrogation 2,100 1,400 1,596 2,731 . . Accomplices of guerrilla and guerrilla suspects executed 1,198 3,020 6,333 3,706 . . Jews executed 31,246 165,282 95,735 70,948 . . Villages and localities Burned down or destroyed 35 12 20 92 # I do not have to pray, I know. His shooting skills simply # are not as good as mine as yet. It is just a matter of time. # He is also slower to anger than I, perhaps due to his weighing # near 300 lbs and built like Alley Oop. But then, it is the # dark alley of your oop. Don't try to scare me, dreck. I still hope that he's not a useless piece of dreck like you. But then, that's most probably the case. After all, what is the probability of two piece of dreck like you forming at the same 50 years? Nature doesn't make such a mistake too often, let us hope. -Danny Keren. -- In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar" in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents. From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 12 13:05:32 PDT 1996 Article: 56892 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: A revisionist FAQ (1) (Repost) Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4u3b1k$hq2@Vir.com> <4uh1n8$1le@Vir.com> <4ulbaj$p2k@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 08:15:47 GMT Lines: 35 mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes: # A little factor of 16 to 1 never did bother a holohugger. # The world would be wise to use the Topf design to reduce # cremation times by a factor of 16. I never claimed such a factor. And, in the world today, more than one corpse would not be cremated in the same muffle, out of respect for the dead. And, in today's typical crematoria, there are not many infants and children among the victims. But such was the case in Birkenau. But you know this. You're just waging a war of attrition. That's all a little zero like you can do; lie and try to exhaust the opposition by endlessly repeating the same lies. However, dreck, I'm here to stay. This is a promise, dreck. It's even easier when you're unemployed, due to reasons which are becoming quite clear. Who will want to hire an imbecile and a pathological liar? Even if his IQ is 163 (he-he). -Danny Keren. -- In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar" in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents. From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 12 13:05:34 PDT 1996 Article: 56893 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Germar Rudolf Responds on Zyklon Outgassing Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4ugtd1$1qi@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4un0r2$a46@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 17:51:51 GMT Lines: 31 ehrlich606@aol.com (Ehrlich606) writes: # Why do you insist on changing the subject especially # when I don't even know what you are referring to? The subject is the reliability and intelligence of Nazi apologists. # Rudolf and Caecaa have both been to the location, and # say the holes aren't there. I don't believe liars. I don't believe Nazis. Pressac's book does show a photo of what appears to be a rather neat, square hole. # It seems to me the only way we can # check is to go and see for ourselves. This will be done. -Danny Keren. -- In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar" in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents. From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 12 13:05:35 PDT 1996 Article: 56894 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!news.thenet.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: the Zyklon B graph - zb.jpg (1/1) Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4un0g6$a27@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 18:00:36 GMT Lines: 43 ehrlich606@aol.com (Ehrlich606) writes: # But what I saw were indications about the behavior of # Zyklon at below zero temps over 48 and 24 hour periods. I am somewhat surprised to see this. You know very well that the issue was the amount of HCN in the air during 24-48 hours, and that the paper explicitly said it had completely evaporated from the Zyklon after at most two hours. # No, Rudolf is clearly describing diagreiss (gypsum and # diatomite) and nothing else. But WE are talking about the Erco carrier which was used for gassing! So you're saying nothing was added to it, to slow the release of the HCN from it. # Indeed, neither Rudolf nor Lueftl has ever claimed that # 10 minutes was not a sufficient time for a sufficient # outgassing to kill everyone. No, only Matt "dreck" Giwer is stupid enough to claim this. The others are stupid, but not *that* stupid. As I recall, Rudolph claims the victims could catch the pellets *and throw them back out* at the SS-men. He does say that, right? Is there no limit to human stupidity? How stupid can these Nazi apologists be? -Danny Keren. -- In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar" in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents. From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 12 14:38:39 PDT 1996 Article: 56906 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Keren, the latter day Einstein Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4umujo$94q@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 18:47:45 GMT Lines: 33 mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) wrote: # refuses to apply his great math talents explaining the # eyewitness reports of death by HCN in 10-15 minutes and # by CO in 15-20 minutes. # # Why does he refuse to do this? I explained it, dreck. A high concentration of CO can kill people in the same duration of time a lower concentration of HCN will kill them. Moreover, engine exhaust contains other lethal gases, such as NO2. Also, it's easy to tune the engine so that its exhaust hardly contains any oxygen (see Holtz-Elliot paper, often quoted here). We've been through this. Mike Stein explained this to you a few times. Why are you so stupid? -Danny Keren. -- In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar" in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents. From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 12 16:35:54 PDT 1996 Article: 56922 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.alt.net!news1.alt.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Except from Rudolf Report -- Zyklon B Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4u7v5l$f7d@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <320c8ca2.563475@news.pacificnet.net> <320e0f7b.5312785@news.pacificnet.net> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 19:00:53 GMT Lines: 50 tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes: # The only place I saw mention of "bottled gas" was at Majdanek. # The document mentions a few bottles. Maybe you can show some # of your pet testimony to show where it says bottled gas was # used first someplace, as your personal testimony implies. Oberhauser's testimony about Belzec and Brack's testimony about the Euthanasia gas chambers. I posted these quite a few times during the past two years. It seems you "revisionist scholars" don't even bother to read all the testimonies you claim are untrue. Why am I not surprised? # But we were talking about the cost effectiveness of # it compared to CO from engines. Mark Van-Alstine posted the price for Zyklon-B. Look at his article again before making an idiot out of yourself. You have demonstrated here, a few times, that you cannot handle basic arithmetic. You tried to make calculations, and, two times, you were off by a factor of 500 or so. Maybe this is your problem? # Did you forget the other methods? Getting on the roofs and # opening the hatch, pulling up the wire cage, putting on the # gas masks, opening the cans, pouring them in, lowering the # cage, closing the hatch? Getting out of bed, walking to the bathroom, opening the tap, washing the face, stretching the hand, picking up the towel, wiping the face, stretching out the hand, putting towel back in place, stretching out the hand, picking up the toothbrush... I mean, Tom, can you *really* be that stupid? It's sad to read this, it's really sad. Have mercy on us will you? -Danny Keren. -- In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar" in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents. From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 12 16:35:55 PDT 1996 Article: 56935 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Ashholes was Re: "Ash Gets In Your Eyes" - Giwer's New Theme Song Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4uicps$jqg@news.iglobal.net> <4ulc5p$ir0@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 21:26:51 GMT Lines: 21 ehrlich606@aol.com (Ehrlich606) writes: [About Reitlinger] # and gave overall death totals for the Final Solution (as he # termed it) of between 2 and 4 million, based on his conclusion # that Soviet pop stats were inaccurate. I read the book, and I'm quite sure his lower bound was 4.2 million, which, while lower than what every other historian claims, is by no means "between 2 and 4 million". -Danny Keren. -- In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar" in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents. From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 12 16:35:56 PDT 1996 Article: 56936 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Tom Moran Does His Little Goebbels Schtick Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 21:12:02 GMT Lines: 29 From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Apr 13 16:26:10 EDT 1996 Article: 81079 of alt.revisionism Xref: world alt.revisionism:81079 From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Hebrew Huggems Date: Sat, 13 Apr 1996 14:26:28 GMT Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc. Lines: 7 NNTP-Posting-Host: pm1-17.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 Keep an eye out for these Hebrew characteristics. Hebrews have a problem with controlling their body language. They either jam their hands deep into their pockets or fold their arms in front of them in a self hugging stance, to keep their hands from flailing about. They also shuffle in place. Ah yes the huggems, the Larry King syndrome. -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 12 17:09:53 PDT 1996 Article: 56946 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.reed.edu!news.lava.net!news.pixi.com!news.zeitgeist.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-11.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-3.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!news.voicenet.com!news2.noc.netcom.net!noc.netcom.net!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!news.thenet.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4ubqq0$ndv@news1.panix.com> <4ubti0$pkf@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 18:41:49 GMT Lines: 25 schwartz@infinet.com writes: # I do NOT believe your father was harassed. I believe he was # asked a simple question on the telephone. Nobody harassed the dreck's father. This has as much reliability as the story of the dreck's daughter. Didn't he state that if someone asks for her number than he would be "ready for the grave", (Message-Id: <4uf0ea$kno@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>), and later said that he has no daughter (<4uk7dg$8k1@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>)? And he expects us to believe him? -Danny Keren. -- In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar" in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents. From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 12 20:56:31 PDT 1996 Article: 56967 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,alt.revisionism,talk.politics.european-union Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!news-w.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!chi-news.cic.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!news.shkoo.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.texas.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Provide the "records," Mr. Hardy! Message-ID: Followup-To: alt.revisionism Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4ula04$ekg@nizkor. <8c7cc$9203.16@news.comet.net> <8c7cc$e182a.1b0@news.comet.net> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 22:31:47 GMT Lines: 47 Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.german:82605 alt.revisionism:56967 talk.politics.european-union:5505 [Followup = alt.revisionism] georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy) writes: # Camp Jews Poles # Auschwitz 205,000 137,000 Perhaps you'll explain where you dug these figures from. What's especially fascinating here, is that a report written by SS-Sturmbannfuehrer Franke-Gricksch for SS-Col. von Herff and Reichsfuehrer-SS Himmler, after inspection of Auschwitz camp on 14-16 May 1943, mentions 500,000 Jewish victims in the camp (see: "Hitler and the Final Solution" - Prof. G. Fleming, University of California Press, 1984, p. 142-143). Are you suggesting the SS had regrets and began bringing these Jewish victims back to life, to arrive at a figure of 205,000 at the war's end? This will be yet another astounding breakthrough in the field of "Holocaust revisionism". This is even better than Kreiberg's stuff. # Please understand my point. I'm really trying, but I can't understand how the number of total deaths decreased from 1943 to 1945. # I am not challenging 6,000,000 Jews, # I am pointing out the disparity between the attention # given one group of 6,000,000 and a second groups of 500,000, # while virtually ignoring two other groups of 5,000,000 # and 2,000,000. I always hear this claim, and it's always coming from Nazis and Nazi-apologists. Are you a Nazi or a Nazi- apologist? If not, explain what exactly your problem is. Posted/e-mailed. -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 12 20:56:32 PDT 1996 Article: 56971 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!fury.berkshire.net!news.albany.net!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Them lovely "chimneys" - kr2a.jpg (0/1) Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4uhi8c$gfa@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> <4un03j$9vn@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 18:22:50 GMT Lines: 61 ehrlich606@aol.com (Ehrlich606) writes: # Now I do not understand you. There are _several_ aerial # photographs of Auschwitz in the summer of 1944. All of # these show the Kremas as clearly outlined. Now, what does that have to do with my speculation that contrast stretching was applied to the August 1944 photo, I really don't know. Perhaps you don't know what contrast stretching is - no sweat, ask and I'll explain. # I have only studied in detail one of the several # photographs. But the argument for strong blurring # doesn't explain why the shadow of the chimney is # quite distinct. Use any viewer that can tell you the gray levels of individual pixels (I'm using xv on a workstation, but every decent viewer can do this). Look at cross-sections passing through bright and dark areas (say, the shadow of the Krema and bright area next to it, or the dark patches on the roof and the bright roof). You'll see that the transition from bright to dark areas is rather gradual. For instance, for one of the dark spots we have the following gray level sequence (all y coordinates are 291): Pixel Gray Level ----- ---------- 316 147 317 130 318 114 319 105 320 110 321 111 322 119 323 137 324 158 325 175 This indicates a strong blur. Naturally, it has a larger affect on the apparent size of small objects (such as the covers on the vents) than large objects (Krema's shadow). This is what's causing you to err in estimating the true size of the covers. -Danny Keren. -- In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar" in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents. From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 12 20:56:33 PDT 1996 Article: 56980 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.cloud9.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Giwer's Lies About My Articles (Re: A revisionist FA Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4u3b1k$hq2@Vir.com> <4uld7l$p2k@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com> <4umt5r$94q@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 21:18:51 GMT Lines: 28 mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes: # My apologies. Apology rejected. You continuously and deliberately lie and quote me as saying things I've never said. # I was unaware that you agreed that the cremation time # for an average body is 1.5-2.0 hours as a minimum. Here's another example. I never said this. There's no use to continue. You apologize for lying, and you lie again in the next line. Do you understand why I consider you to be a lying piece of dreck? It is telling to see that you're continuing to do your best to justify this title. -Danny Keren. -- In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar" in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents. From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Aug 13 08:05:03 PDT 1996 Article: 57015 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4i63p3$l5@axl02it.ntc.nokia.com> <4ujfcl$8k1@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com> <4umktd$rtl@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 17:45:23 GMT Lines: 44 The dreck writes: # Post them. Testimony of SS Oberscharfuehrer Heinrich Matthes about Treblinka [Quoted in "BELZEC, SOBIBOR, TREBLINKA - the Operation Reinhard Death Camps", Indiana University Press - Yitzhak Arad, 1987, p. 121] ------------------------------------------------------------------ During the entire time I was in Treblinka, I served in the upper camp. The upper camp was that part of Treblinka with the gas chambers, where the Jews were killed and their corpses laid in large pits and later burned. About fourteen Germans carried out services in the upper camp. There were two Ukrainians permanently in the upper camp. One of them was called Nikolai, the other was a short man, I don't remember his name... These two Ukrainians who lived in the upper camp served in the gas chambers. They also took care of the engine room when Fritz Schmidt was absent. Usually this Schmidt was in charge of the engine room. In my opinion, as a civilian he was either a mechanic or a driver... All together, six gas chambers were active. According to my estimate, about 300 people could enter each gas chamber. The people went into the gas chamber without resistance. Those who were at the end, the Ukrainian guards had to push inside. I personally saw how the Ukrainians pushed the people with their rifle butts... The gas chambers were closed for about thirty minutes. Then Schmidt stopped the gassing, and the two Ukrainians who were in the engine room opened the gas chambers from the other side. -Danny Keren. -- In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar" in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents. From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Aug 13 08:05:04 PDT 1996 Article: 57019 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!psgrain!iafrica.com!peacenjoy.mikom.csir.co.za!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.dacom.co.kr!news.postech.ac.kr!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!ames!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!swrinde!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: the Zyklon B graph - zb.jpg (1/1) Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4uegil$cra@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com> Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 18:51:52 GMT Lines: 34 Rudolph himself seems to agree this graph isn't worth much; he apparently reconstructed it from *one* data point. He chose an exponential function because, so he said, it's the "fastest decreasing mathematical function", which must be one of the stupidest things I heard in my life. The graph presented here cannot be true, as it contradicts the much more accurate information from the Peters-Rasch paper: in far lower temperatures, there was no residue detected in the Zyklon after an hour, or at most two. It also contradicts the information in Dr. Peter's book that the large part evaporates in half-an-hour. The simplest explanation is that we're talking about two different products: one manufactured today vs. the wartime Zyklon. Other possibility is that Rudolph is lying through his teeth, as he did when misquoting Dr. Peters' book. All that being said: this is a matter not of crucial importance. Even if the graph was indeed as Rudolph claims it to be, there would be no problems with using it to kill people in the Auschwitz gas chambers. -Danny Keren. -- Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. -Lu Xun. From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Aug 13 08:05:05 PDT 1996 Article: 57025 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: A revisionist FAQ (1) (Repost) Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4u3b1k$hq2@Vir.com> <320e0f94.5338270@news.pacificnet.net> <320f3257.330154@news.pacificnet.net> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 19:07:40 GMT Lines: 28 tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes: # Not all the ovens were documented, this is only an # unfounded figure 52 cremation furnaces. No "revisionist scholar" questions these figures. # and not all would be used for cremating humans. Tell us, zeide: what were the cremation furnaces intended for, then? These people are just unbelievable. Now he's telling us that the cremation furnaces weren't used to cremate corpses. -Danny Keren. -- In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar" in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents. From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Aug 13 08:05:05 PDT 1996 Article: 57058 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!bug.rahul.net!rahul.net!a2i!samba.rahul.net!rahul.net!a2i!news.walltech.com!news.ecis.com!news.zeitgeist.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-11.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-3.sprintlink.net!news.megalink.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Auschwitz Myths and Facts Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <320D0765.3492@kaiwan.com> <4umv8b$94q@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 17:41:55 GMT Lines: 36 mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes: # Danny boy, the pipes are callin you. Throwing in # children, a terrible cry. Is this "physically impossible"? # Heat given off when there is no source of heat. In winter, when you crowd a large number of people into a small room, are you saying that this room will not be considerably hotter than the surrounding? # How can I thank you for another example of holohuggers # idiocy? I never can. How can I thank you for proving, yet again, that Nazi apologists are as dumb as they go? Want to go back to the SS-men not being able to carry 4 Kg of Zyklon up the ladder? As you claimed? As it would be "too heavy"? You're a stupid piece of dreck. Didn't I tell you this already? -Danny Keren. -- In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar" in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents. From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Aug 13 08:05:06 PDT 1996 Article: 57060 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.fan.ernst-zundel,alt.revisionism,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.white-power Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news.abs.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!news.shkoo.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!news2.digex.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism Message-ID: Followup-To: alt.revisionism Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4ubqq0$ndv@news1.panix.com> <4ubti0$pkf@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com> <4umddo$rtl@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 05:49:16 GMT Lines: 40 Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.fan.ernst-zundel:2577 alt.revisionism:57060 alt.conspiracy:77504 alt.politics.white-power:39263 mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes: # As I said, it is only fifty years. I also said the # thousands of tons of bone fragments were not found # in 1945. I made the point that no one looked for them. As was pointed out here numerous times, large amounts of human remains were found in some of the camps, such as Treblinka and Maidanek. Not to mention the corpses found in camps such as Belsen. The British had to use bulldozers to bury them; there were simply too many. But you know this. http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/bergen-belsen/images/belsen02.jpg http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/bergen-belsen/images/belsen01.jpg http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/nordhausen/images/nordhausen.jpg http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/maidanek/images/Maidan02.jpg http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/dachau/images/Dachau01.jpg # So where are you going with all of this? You tell us. -Danny Keren. -- In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar" in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents. From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Aug 13 08:05:07 PDT 1996 Article: 57070 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!op.net!en.com!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-ana-7.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4ujjeu$8k1@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com> <4umeu1$rtl@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 09:22:06 GMT Lines: 47 mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes: # So how do you tell the true from the false testimony? How do you tell the testimonies about the puddles of melted human flesh in Dresden from the correct testimonies? # I have a very successful test of true from false. If they # mention only gassing it is true. If they go into any detail # about gassing it is false. And that is because not one # testimony that goes into any detail about gassing contains # nonsense. Prove it. Give examples. # And Wiesel was only 14 yet he was given the grand tour of all the # gassing camps in Europe and miraculously avoided being gassed in all # of them. He is hardly less incredible in his story. He just doesn't # know why he was not gassed. "All the gassing camps"? What garbage. You hear only the survivors. True, most of them were lucky. The rest aren't here to speak. # And of course we have already been told in the Anne Frank story that # she would have been gassed if she were younger. Yet Wiesel was # younger in all but A-B so he should have been gassed based upon age. This was the end of the war. Some people were lucky. Some survived. What the hell is your point? # But how do you explain ALL the "testimonies" being false # in most aspects? I don't have to explain it, because it's not true. -Danny Keren. -- In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar" in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents. From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Aug 13 08:05:08 PDT 1996 Article: 57093 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.reed.edu!camelot.ccs.neu.edu!nntp.neu.edu!grapevine.lcs.mit.edu!bone.think.com!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Photographs from BELSEN Camp Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4ulnfr$n26@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 09:15:02 GMT Lines: 58 ehrlich606@aol.com (Ehrlich606) writes: It would be *extremely* helpful if you use a standard piece of software which puts a ">" before the text you're replying to. # E606: Once more you are omitting the fact that the death # rate during this period was seriously aggravated by the # typhus epidemic of that summer. It continued afterwards. But this is a diversion. WHY were they having all these epidemics? Because they were treated like animals. That's why. You know that. # Moreover, you are not referencing the fact that this # death rate elicited a command from Himmler that it be # lowered, not for humanitarian purposes, # mind you, but explicitly due to economic considerations. This is true. But it doesn't change the number of those who died. # E606: As to why this affects the KZ population rather # than Allied POW's, my guess is that is has something to # do with the admixture of East Europeans (Soviets, Poles) # who came from the region where typhus and related diseases # were chronic. We're talking 10 PERCENT DYING EVERY MONTH. And this is for WORK CAMPS. Strong men, who were selected and kept because they could work. Are you suggesting that such a death rate existed in Poland? Or the USSR? Even after the Nazis robbed them of their food supplies? # E606: I for one don't think autopsy reports are relevant. # The real issue that is going on here is the extent to which # the mounds of corpses found at Belsen at the end of the war # were the result of deliberate starvation. There is no other explanation. Don't start again with the water pump breaking down. Please. Even Kramer said he just couldn't get food because the Whermacht wouldn't spare any. Nor water. "Sub-humans" were not worth wasting water on, apparently. Typhus may have been a factor, but - again - starvation was, by far, the major factor. -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Aug 13 09:53:12 PDT 1996 Article: 82605 of soc.culture.german Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,alt.revisionism,talk.politics.european-union Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!news-w.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!chi-news.cic.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!news.shkoo.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.texas.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Provide the "records," Mr. Hardy! Message-ID: Followup-To: alt.revisionism Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4ula04$ekg@nizkor. <8c7cc$9203.16@news.comet.net> <8c7cc$e182a.1b0@news.comet.net> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 22:31:47 GMT Lines: 47 Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.german:82605 alt.revisionism:56967 talk.politics.european-union:5505 [Followup = alt.revisionism] georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy) writes: # Camp Jews Poles # Auschwitz 205,000 137,000 Perhaps you'll explain where you dug these figures from. What's especially fascinating here, is that a report written by SS-Sturmbannfuehrer Franke-Gricksch for SS-Col. von Herff and Reichsfuehrer-SS Himmler, after inspection of Auschwitz camp on 14-16 May 1943, mentions 500,000 Jewish victims in the camp (see: "Hitler and the Final Solution" - Prof. G. Fleming, University of California Press, 1984, p. 142-143). Are you suggesting the SS had regrets and began bringing these Jewish victims back to life, to arrive at a figure of 205,000 at the war's end? This will be yet another astounding breakthrough in the field of "Holocaust revisionism". This is even better than Kreiberg's stuff. # Please understand my point. I'm really trying, but I can't understand how the number of total deaths decreased from 1943 to 1945. # I am not challenging 6,000,000 Jews, # I am pointing out the disparity between the attention # given one group of 6,000,000 and a second groups of 500,000, # while virtually ignoring two other groups of 5,000,000 # and 2,000,000. I always hear this claim, and it's always coming from Nazis and Nazi-apologists. Are you a Nazi or a Nazi- apologist? If not, explain what exactly your problem is. Posted/e-mailed. -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Aug 13 09:53:15 PDT 1996 Article: 82608 of soc.culture.german Newsgroups: soc.culture.german Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.wildstar.net!cancer.vividnet.com!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: The Evil Nature of German Legislation Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 21:59:58 GMT Lines: 38 I have read some of Rudolph's stuff. It's about as stupid as Leuchter's. As I recall, he writes that the victims inside the gas chambers could catch the Zyklon pellets and throw them back at the SS-men outside (!!). Imagine that. Someone opens a trapdoor, dumps in these pellets (which very quickly release a highly lethal cyanide gas), and immediately closes the trap door. And, in the second or two while this is happening, the victims, allegedly, understand what is going on, capture these small pellets (which keep releasing this highly lethal gas), and throw them out before the trapdoor is shut. I mean, Kreiberg, if you believe this crap, it's no wonder you believed that corpses can explode like napalm bombs if the furnace gets too hot. You're such a sorry-assed bunch of damned idiots... Doesn't Rudolph have an e-mail? Get the stupid clown on the net and let's debate. # We at CODOH hope that freedom will never be extinguished. CODOH. An organization run by a 70-year-old former construction worker and a 26-year-old highschool dropout. No offense towards construction workers intended... most of them are far smarter than Bradley Smith. -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Aug 13 09:53:16 PDT 1996 Article: 82646 of soc.culture.german Newsgroups: de.soc.politik,soc.culture.german Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!mr.net!news.sgi.com!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.erols.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Ingrids Liste Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <31f7dcd6.10604706@news.europeonline.com> <4tntk9$kfv@fstgal00.tu-graz.ac.at> <320fc10a.13919917@news.crosslink.net> Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 02:11:47 GMT Lines: 15 HaKa@infreiheit.net (Horst Kleinsorg) writes: # Das hier sooft gepriesene sogenannte Nizkor Archiv # durchforstet saemtliche Newsgruppen nach potentiellen # Kritikern des Holocausts und legt ueber jede kritische # Person ein Dossier an. Was ist wohl der Grund dafuer? "Archive this, Dano!" :-) (With credit to "Hawaii-5-0", of course). -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Aug 13 11:40:44 PDT 1996 Article: 57108 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!mr.net!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Zyklon B: Kieselguhr & Gypsum Message-ID: