From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Jul  3 15:06:11 PDT 1996
Article: 48013 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: 'You see, they are bringing children now'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:    <4r4d4i$ki6@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 1996 16:33:34 GMT
Lines: 17

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com writes:

# I am certainly the good Dr. Keren can make a few comments
# upon such a packing factor ... without handwaving even if he
# chooses to.  But he will not do so with standing people.  

Let's start with a simple question(s):

1) What is the average volume of an adult person?

2) What is the average volume of a child (say, 10-year-old)?


-Danny Keren.





From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Jul  3 16:42:17 PDT 1996
Article: 48044 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Boger and Friends 'Evacuate' the Gypsy Camp in Auschwitz
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <836063980snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 1996 16:24:12 GMT
Lines: 53

Alexander Baron  writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com "Daniel Keren" writes:

[Testimony of Auschwitz survivors about the murder of the Gypsies
 in Auschwitz]

## "Did Boger also hit them?". 

# Much drivel deleted...

Of course. Good old Al Baron was never in Auschwitz, but trust him
to know better than everybody who was there.

"London was bombed by the Germans in WW2. I was there. Saw it...".

"This is drivel".

There, we have a "revisionist proof" that London was never bombed.

"Just say drivel". What "revisionist ingenuity".

# You seem to be forgetting Dan that some of these accused were held
# on remand for three years and more while the "evidence" against them
# was collected.

So what?

# Read what Hannah Arendt has to say about the testimony in the 
introduction. 

Read it.

# This was a show trial pure and simple.

Yawn. Prove it. It won't do just to repeat this like a lame-brained parrot.

# Staeglich has argued, convincingly, that its purpose was to "prove"
# the gassings to the world.

Let us see these "convincing" argument.

# The purpose of the defendants was, obviously, to achieve the lightest
# sentences possible for themselves by a plea of "Please sir, it wasn't
# me."

Rubbish. Why did Stark testify to personally gassing people in
Krema I? Moreover, why didn't *one* - just *one* - of the accused,
deny the gassings? *One*? Can you offer any explanation?


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Jul  3 19:42:26 PDT 1996
Article: 48070 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: No gas chamber in the old reich, sorry!
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4quqbi$dv6@Vir.com>  <836095557snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 1996 16:52:58 GMT
Lines: 35

# Translation of the Broszat letter: 

[Letter deleted]

# What Revisionist "lie", Dan?

The lie that there were no homicidal gas chambers in the "Old Reich".

Dr. Broszat does say that there was no gas chamber in Buchenwald,
and that the one in Dachau was never finished. 

Then, we have the famous "revisionist extrapolation" in action, 
extending Dachau and Buchenwald to mean "all camps in the 'Old Reich'".

There were homicidal gas chambers in other camps: Mauthausen, Neuengamme,
Natzweiler and others. It is true that they were not used for mass
murder on the scale of Treblinka, Auschwitz etc.; in Natzweiler, for
instance, only about 200 victims were gassed. In Mauthausen, as I recall,
a few thousands. For this reason mainly, these camps are often referred
to as "concentration camps", and not "extermination camps", a term often
reserved for the massive death camps the SS built in Nazi-occupied
Poland. In the "concentration camps", a far higher number of people
were murdered by intentional starvation and other means than by
gassing.

It is important to note the fact mentioned in Dr. Broszat's letter:
That from mid-1942 to mid-1943, 110,000 inmates died in these so-called
"concentration camps" alone. This is long before the alleged 
"difficulties in transportation towards the end of the war", that our 
lying "revisionists" blame for the deaths in these camps.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Jul  3 22:42:48 PDT 1996
Article: 48090 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Nazis NOT racist NOR antisemitic!
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4ravql$o2t@surz03fi.HRZ.Uni-Marburg.DE> <4rcira$c05@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 1996 21:33:44 GMT
Lines: 50

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com writes:

# Anyone want to explain this one? 

[Erroneous testimony about Belsec camp]

Anyone want to explain the testimonies about Dresden's bombing? 
"Puddles of melted human flesh"? People who turned into an
"undulating layer of fine gray ashes" although the fire
didn't even touch them? People "glowing red and orange" 
(also, although the fire didn't even touch them)?

If the fact that there are erroneous reports about the
Holocaust implies it never took place, so, by the same logic,
Dresden was never bombed, and WW2 never took place.

There are erroneous reports about the death camps; they were
authored by Poles who spied on them. As opposed to what Giwer
claims, these reports were indeed written by members of the 
Polish underground who spied on the camps. Some of these
reports contain errors about the methods used to kill the
victims. After all, these Polish spies were not given a guided 
tour of the camps and the gas chambers.

Giwer can only keep posting these reports, dozens of time a
day. Usually, he simply appends them to the end of an article
he is "responding" to, his only "response" being the report.
He cannot do anything else (save for calling people "pig",
"dumb fuck", "fat broad", "piece of shit", etc).

A rational person would realize that the more accurate testimony
on these camps is from the SS-men who built them and who ran
the death machinery with their own hands, as well as from the
surviving "sonderkommando" members. 

Giwer will keep posting the erroneous reports, dozens of times 
a day; this is all a person of his intelligence can do. But he
must realize that his position is equivalent to the position of
someone who claims that, because of such erroneous testimonies
about Dresden as mentioned above, the city was never bombed. 


-Danny Keren.


-- 
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.


From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Jul  3 22:42:49 PDT 1996
Article: 48101 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The Gas Chamber at Dachau
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4qvcje$iqr@news-e2b.gnn.com> <4r66aa$oe6@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 1996 17:03:16 GMT
Lines: 29

dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) writes:
# Dan Keren wrote:

## For a photograph of Dr. Rascher's letter to Himmler, suggesting
## to use the Dachau gassing facilities to test "combat gases"
## on humans, see the files

# This is weaseling, Dan.  The point is not things like the above, it is
# whether or not Dachau was a "death camp" with homicidal gas chambers that
# were used to kill a great many human beings.  

No, no. You missed the point. Racher's letter says far more than what
you suggest it says: it says that gassing facilities are being built
in Dachau, and it then offers to use them for testing combat gases
on people.

How many people were gassed in Dachau? We will probably never know.
As I recall, Dr. Rascher himself said that many were gassed. 

Possibly, was it claimed that more people were gassed than the number
for which there is strong evidence? Yes. Which means that people make
errors, and historians correct them.

Your point?


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Jul  4 07:43:19 PDT 1996
Article: 48124 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: No gas chamber in the old reich, sorry!
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4r4je8$p77@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com> <4r6arp$q1i@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 1996 17:11:29 GMT
Lines: 22

dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) writes:

# Exactly.  As Pinter alluded, despite the testimony from SS and
# others about the gassings at Dachau, and the American military
# propagation of that lie for ten or fifteen years, 

Name one SS-man who testified about gassings in Dachau. I have
never seen such testimony, and would be interested to see it.

# replete with the brainwashing of millions of our servicemen, the 
# accessibility of the locations allowed intelligent and inquiring
# people to quickly determine that the story was a complete fabrication

You're lying through your teeth, and you know it. A homicidal gas
chamber was built, and we have Dr. Rascher's letter suggesting to
use it for testing combat gases on people. I posted the location of a 
web page in which a photograph of this letter is present.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Jul  4 07:43:20 PDT 1996
Article: 48125 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: The Problem With 'Revisionism'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 1996 17:23:31 GMT
Lines: 17

We have seen that, using the type of "arguments" offered here
and elsewhere by "Holocaust revisionists", we can easily "prove"
that Dresden was never bombed, or that WW2 never took place,
whatever.

That is, if one accepts these type of "arguments" as legitimate,
he/she will have to agree that we can not prove that WW2 ever
took place.

This is the major problem of "Holocaust revisionism". This is the
very reason which makes it something totally devoid of any value,
except for its "value" as Nazi propaganda.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Jul  4 07:43:21 PDT 1996
Article: 48127 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: A question for revisionists re: defenses at N'burg
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4qsd4a$30k@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4qsjd2$5ho@newsbf02.news.aol.com>  <4r9lh8$15e@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 1996 18:58:17 GMT
Lines: 28

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com writes:

# We note here by AMERICAN troops, therefore we do not expect
# to find any mention of gas chambers or human skin as we now know
# those things did not exist.  

An outright lie, of course. As noted here many times, there were
homicidal gas chambers in some of the camps liberated by the
Americans, not only those liberated by the Soviets.

Tanned human skin and ornaments made from it were discovered and
presented in the trials; a pathological report confirming their
origin was posted here. One can see relevant photographs in
the IMT "Blue Series".

Do you have anything to offer but lies? Maybe *new* lies, for a
change?


-Danny Keren.



-- 
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.


From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Jul  4 07:43:21 PDT 1996
Article: 48179 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: No gas chamber in the old reich, sorry!
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4r4je8$p77@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com> <4r6arp$q1i@newsbf02.news.aol.com> 
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 1996 22:07:45 GMT
Lines: 18

Daniel Keren  wrote:

# I posted the location of a web page in which a photograph of
# this letter is present.

ftp://www.nizkor.eye.net/pub/nizkor/miscellany/dkeren-incoming/

Rascher1.jpg and Rascher2.jpg


-Danny Keren.


-- 
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.


From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Jul  4 11:53:17 PDT 1996
Article: 48240 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!overload.lbl.gov!agate!spool.mu.edu!caen!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: a new approach
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4r7ujb$1us@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com> <4ram58$s87@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com> <4rbm74$q0g@bell.maths.tcd.ie> <4rcbve$c05@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 1996 21:44:06 GMT
Lines: 27

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com writes:

# Just who do you think I work for?  

Nobody. Who would hire a person like you? Well, the IHR, maybe.

It's really quite obvious why you had to retire at such an early
age (46 was it?). You're stupid, you're ignorant, and you're
terribly obnoxious. People like you have trouble finding jobs.

BTW, I liked the excuse you presented for your early retirement
("nobody wants to kill Russians anymore", was it?). Giwer, you're 
such a pathetic joke. Surely, a genius like you (with an alleged
IQ of 163) would have no problem finding another job.

You're just a frustrated little zero trying to get even with the
world, aren't you, Giwer?


-Danny Keren.


-- 
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.


From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Jul  5 14:56:08 PDT 1996
Article: 48470 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'They probably thought they were being inoculated'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 19:47:46 GMT
Lines: 161

(Four Polish witnesses, three of them doctors, and two SS men, testify
about murder with phenol injections in Auschwitz. Among the murdered
were 120 children from the village of Zamosc).

All the following testimonies are excerpted from "Auschwitz: the
Proceedings Against Mulka and Others" by Bernd Nauman. The SS men
who usually did the killing were Hantl, Scherpe, and Klehr (who also
participated in the gassing operations).

Testimony of Professor Fejkiel from Cracow (Poland) who was arrested by 
the Nazis and imprisoned in Auschwitz between October 1940 and January
1945 (p. 153-4):
----------------------------------------------------------------------                                       
The witness reports that the experiments to kill prisoners with 
injections were begun in 1942.

"First they tried benzine, but that turned out to be impractical. I
know of a case where death did not occur for forty-five minutes. They
looked for a quicker method. The second medium was hydrogen; then came
phenolic acid".

First it was administered intravenously, then directly into the heart:
"I assume that the intravenous method took too long".

"Do you know who killed, where the murders took place, and how many
people were the victims of such injections?"

"I will begin with the number killed: I assume that about 30,000 people
were killed in this fashion".

First came infirm Jews, then other hospital patients, then people not
hospitalized, including prisoners "which the Gestapo sent in a round-
about way".

"Who did the killing?"

"At first Dr. Entress himself, then Klehr, and then - in this order - 
Scherpe and Hantl. Hantl did it rarely. We thought of Hantl as a decent
man and were surprised that he did it".


Testimony of SS men Klehr (p. 71):
------------------------------------------
"How did you kill these prisoners?"
"Well, like before. With a shot of phenol into the heart".


SS men Scherpe is asked about the murder of the Zamosc children (p. 79):
-----------------------------------------------------------------
According to testimony by numerous witnesses during the pretrial
hearing, at least 119 children were murdered with phenol injections
in the closing days of February, 1943. Force was used to get them into
the executioner's chair, and Scherpe himself gave them the lethal
injection into their hearts. It was so horrible that the "medic" ran
away in desperation. The next day his colleague Hantl, a co-defendant,
murdered the remaining 80 children.

"You broke down and couldn't go on?" the judge asks.
"That is exaggerated. It isn't true".

Scherpe no longer wants to admit what he himself said earlier, that the
children, panic-stricken, had screamed.

"That is not so. I didn't say that. It is also not true. They suspected
nothing. They probably thought they were being inoculated".

The last boy waiting outside began to cry and called for his companions
who didn't return. And that was the only indication the defendant had
that the children may have feared death.


Polish physician, Dr. Klodzinski, testifies about the murder of the 
Zamosc children (p. 152):
--------------------------------------------------------------------
"In the afternoon came the order to kill the children. They were led
into the washroom, and told to undress and line up. And then Scherpe
came; I still remember that".

Klodzinski speaks of the dead silence in Block 20 at that moment; 
nothing was heard except thumps "- it was a muffled sound" - as the
heads and bodies of the slain children fell to the floor of the 
washroom.

"Suddenly Scherpe came out of the room and said 'I can't anymore', and
left. After a while Hantl took his place and and murdered the remaining
children".


Warsaw physician Dr. Glowacki testifies (p. 137-8):
---------------------------------------------------
"How many in your opinion were selected by the defendant [Klehr] on his
own authority?"

"He certainly selected and killed more than 10,000".

[...]

But the witness saw how Scherpe "personally administered injections in
Block 20. It happened during the murder of children from the vicinity
of Zamosc. There were so many of them that they had to line them up
between the barracks. Some of the children wee led into the area of
Block 20, where Scherpe killed them while the others were still playing
outside. There were more than 100".

He remembers this case so well because Scherpe had suddenly paused. "We
thought he was conscience-stricken and that was the reason he broke off
in the middle of murdering the children. I clearly remember him 
stopping. He left, and we never saw him again after that. Hantl took 
over. Hantl finished the murder of the children".

Stanislaus Glowa testifies (p. 183-186):
----------------------------------------
Glowa, like many of the witnesses who preceded him, tells of the 
"experimental gassing" at the end of 1941 in Block 11, of the slayings
with phenol, first at Block 28 and then in Block 20 of the prisoner
hospital.

"Klehr, Scherpe and Hantl regularly took part in the killings with 
phenol. But I would like to point out at this time, for the sake of
justice, if I had to set up a scale of responsibility, that the last-
named behaved like saints compared to Klehr".

[...]

The court also hears this witness tell of the fate of 120 boys from the
Polish village of Zamosc. Their parents had been killed, and the
children were brought to Auschwitz, where, after a few weeks, it was
decided to kill them as well. Work-detail leader Palitzch brought them
into the courtyard of the hospital on a February morning in 1943, where
the played and were given food by older prisoners. 

"They were hungry and frightened and told of having been beaten. All of
us felt sorry for them. Again and again they asked: 'Will we be killed?
Why?'. They had to wait a few hours to the end".

Prisoner-clerk Glowa sat in the aisle of hospital building 20, where
almost daily he crossed of the names of patients "injected" by Klehr
>from  the list of inmates. Not far from where he sat was the curtain 
behind which the victims had to stand in the corridor until a prisoner 
took them into the "examination room" where Klehr was waiting for them 
with his phenol injection.

"Scherpe and Hantl came in that afternoon, and they worked for a long
time. In order to shorten the terrible torment of the children, I would
take them to the curtain and tell them they are going to be bathed. The
first ones had screamed with terror in the room".

"Do you have children"? Glowa asks in a breaking voice, and then 
continues: "It was horrible. Why did they kill us? That is why I 
helped, to shorten the torment. After it was over I saw Hantl in a 
state of complete collapse". 




The court at Frankfurt sentenced Klehr to life in prison, Scherpe to
4 years and 6 months, Hantl to 3 years and 6 months. Since Hantl had
served his sentence in confinement awaiting trial, he left the court a
free man.

-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Jul  5 15:24:43 PDT 1996
Article: 24653 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.usa.republican,talk.politics.european-union,uk.education.misc,uk.misc,uk.politics.misc,soc.culture.german
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Holocaust was: Re: Whopper of the Week: Race is "Cultural"
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: soc.culture.german
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <6C9OcqGH5bB@dingo.saar.de>  
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 18:02:44 GMT
Lines: 37
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.europe:46205 alt.politics.nationalism.white:24653 alt.politics.usa.republican:228106 talk.politics.european-union:4611 soc.culture.german:78923

[Followup = SCG]

After reading quite a lot of material, I came to the 
conclusion that most Germans were not aware of the extent
of the murder in the death camps built by the SS in Nazi-
occupied Poland, although they were well aware of the 
persecution of the Jews.

The SS took very strong measures to keep the mass murder
operation secret; this is well-known. The SS-men who served
in the death camps were not allowed to tell what they have
seen, nor to take photographs (in one case, SS-Untersturmfuehrer 
Max Taubner was tried by the SS for taking such photographs and 
showing them around). 

We have testimonies that I consider quite reliable, of some
of the SS-men (including some highly intelligent ones of
high ranks) who spoke of being utterly stunned by what they
saw when they reached the camps. I believe they were telling
the truth. I can post such testimonies, if there's interest.

Many of the relevant documents use camouflage terms, which is
another proof to the effort taken by the SS to keep the murders
as secret as possible.

Joel does make some good points, however one has to remember
that the very large portion of the Jewish victims were not
Germans, and that the massive death camps were all in Nazi-
occupied Poland. 

Posted; mailed to Messers. Rosenberg and Skok.


-Danny Keren.





From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Jul  5 17:49:27 PDT 1996
Article: 48495 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!psgrain!iafrica.com!pipex-sa.net!plug.news.pipex.net!pipex!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!usenet2.news.uk.psi.net!uknet!usenet1.news.uk.psi.net!uknet!EU.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: AN ADMISSION OF PERFIDIOUS GUILT
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4rc02l$kj9@tor-nn1-hb0.netcom.ca> <4rhbbi$oe4@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 16:48:19 GMT
Lines: 44

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com writes:

# Anyone want to explain this one? 

[Erroneous testimony about Belsec camp]

Anyone want to explain the testimonies about Dresden's bombing? 
"Puddles of melted human flesh"? People who turned into an
"undulating layer of fine gray ashes" although the fire
didn't even touch them? People "glowing red and orange" 
(also, although the fire didn't even touch them)?

If the fact that there are erroneous reports about the
Holocaust implies it never took place, so, by the same logic,
Dresden was never bombed, and WW2 never took place.

There are erroneous reports about the death camps; they were
authored by Poles who spied on them. As opposed to what Giwer
claims, these reports were indeed written by members of the 
Polish underground who spied on the camps. Some of these
reports contain errors about the methods used to kill the
victims. After all, these Polish spies were not given a guided 
tour of the camps and the gas chambers.

Giwer can only keep posting these reports, dozens of time a
day. Usually, he simply appends them to the end of an article
he is "responding" to, his only "response" being the report.
He cannot do anything else (save for calling people "pig",
"dumb fuck", "fat broad", "piece of shit", etc).

A rational person would realize that the more accurate testimony
on these camps is from the SS-men who built them and who ran
the death machinery with their own hands, as well as from the
surviving "sonderkommando" members. 

Giwer will keep posting the erroneous reports, dozens of times 
a day; this is all a person of his intelligence can do. But he
must realize that his position is equivalent to the position of
someone who claims that, because of such erroneous testimonies
about Dresden as mentioned above, the city was never bombed. 


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Jul  6 08:00:09 PDT 1996
Article: 48505 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!tezcat.com!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Now I'm *really* confused. . .
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <31d31a33.1226300@news.eden.com> <4r9q0p$15e@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> <4rcusf$etk@cnn.cc.biu.ac.il> <4rhbct$m1p@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 16:57:48 GMT
Lines: 14

I see that the mentally retarded Matt Giwer has now created
a new kind of spam: he posts the same article not only dozens
of times a day, but also a few times per article.

This does prove that mentally retarded people can spam 
newsgroups and, possibly, destroy them. Score one for the
great electronic democracy. He may be too stupid to find a 
job, but he can destroy a newsgroup.


-Danny Keren.





From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Jul  6 08:00:13 PDT 1996
Article: 48506 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!tezcat.com!imci5!pull-feed.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: TRANSIT CAMPS
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: 
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 17:06:39 GMT
Lines: 61

Jeffrey  wrote:

# Sobibor was also designated a transit camp [cf Hilberg] and
# [IMHO] so were Treblinka, Belzec, and Chelmno.

Willi Mentz testifies about his days in Treblinka
[Quoted in 'The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The 
Free Press, NY, 1988., p. 245-247]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
When I came to Treblinka the camp commandant was a doctor named Dr. Eberl.
He was very ambitious. It was said that he ordered more transports
than could be "processed" in the camp. That meant that trains had to
wait outside the camp because the occupants of the previous transport
had not yet all been killed. At the time it was very hot and as a
result of the long wait inside the transport trains in the intense
heat many people died. At the time whole mountains of bodies lay on
the platform. The Hauptsturmfuehrer Christian Wirth came to Treblinka
and kicked up a terrific row. And then one day Dr.  Eberl was no
longer there...

For about two months I worked in the upper section of the camp and
then after Eberl had gone everything in the camp was reorganized. The
two parts of the camp were separated by barbed wire fences. Pine
branches were used so that you could not see through the fences. The
same thing was done along the route from the "transfer" area to the
gas chambers...

Finally, new and larger gas chambers were built. I think that there
were now five or six larger gas chambers. I cannot say exactly how
many people these large gas chambers held. If the small gas chambers
could hold 80-100 people, the large ones could probably hold twice
that number...

Following the arrival of a transport, six to eight cars would be
shunted into the camp, coming to a halt at the platform there. The
commandant, his deputy Franz, Kuettner and Stadie or Maetzig would be
here waiting as the transport came in. Further SS members were also
present to supervise the unloading: for example, Genz and Belitz had
to make absolutely sure that there was no one left in the car after
the occupants had been ordered to get out.

When the Jews had got off, Stadie or Maetzig would have a short word
with them.  They were told something to the effect that they were a
resettlement transport, that they would be given a bath and that they
would receive new clothes. They were also instructed to maintain quiet
and discipline. They would continue their journey the following day.

Then the transports were taken off to the so-called "transfer" area.
The women had to undress in huts and the men out in the open. The
women were than led through a passageway, known as the "tube", to the
gas chambers. On the way they had to pass a hut where they had to hand
in their jewellery and valuables..




-Danny Keren.






From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Jul  6 08:00:16 PDT 1996
Article: 48507 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!tezcat.com!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-10.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news.ultranet.com!homer.alpha.net!daily-planet.execpc.com!news.sol.net!newspump.sol.net!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!news.iag.net!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Physical evidence
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4raotm$s87@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com> <4rcml1$12r@news.enter.net> <4rhbc7$m1p@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 16:47:24 GMT
Lines: 28

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com writes:

# There appears to have been no orders against taking
# the kinds of pictures that have been produced which are
# excludable as being nonspecific to the gassing issue.

There were orders against taking photographs in the "Operation
Reinhard" camps. There were also orders against taking 
photographs during the mass shootings by the "Einsatzgruppen". 

Now, the 163-IQ'ed Giwer will claim to a contradiction, because
there are actually some such photographs. That's true. At least
a few were taken in secrecy or in violation of the order, and
at least one SS-man (Max Taubner) stood trial for taking such
photographs.

# I have no idea what more to tell you folks about what
# constitutes physical evidence.  It appears quite obvious to me.  

The 163-IQ man has yet failed to provide any physical evidence
for WW2 of the type he demands for the Holocaust. Using his
"methods", one can "prove" that WW2 never took place.


-Danny Keren.





From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Jul  6 08:00:17 PDT 1996
Article: 48510 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!uunet!inXS.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: TEST [1/1]
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: 
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 17:03:27 GMT
Lines: 14

Any special reason for posting Irving's picture?

Is he still Roberts' hero, after he recently stated that
the Nazis killed four million Jews? This is lower than the
true figure, but still rather higher than what our neo-Nazi
"revisionists" have been claiming.

And, most important: what does Al Baron think of this? :-)


-Danny Keren.





From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Jul  6 08:00:17 PDT 1996
Article: 48511 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: BRADLEY SMITH'S WEBSITE IS SHUT DOWN
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4rj7ov$5sk@news-e2b.gnn.com> <31dd275c.844581@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 17:18:12 GMT
Lines: 22

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

# Looks like theres going to be a celebration party at
# Nizkor. 

I will not party. Smith is a truly repulsive person, but he
should be allowed to have his web site. To the best of my
knowledge, and from reading this group, everybody in "Nizkor"
disagrees with this kind of action. But one can expect Moran
to lie about this - we know who we're dealing with here: a liar
and forger.

Unlike "leading revisionist" Ernst Zundel, I do not believe
in silencing those who do not agree with me. As many people
have said - let the "revisionist" neo-Nazi scum be out here 
in the open, for all the world to see.


-Danny Keren.





From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Jul  6 08:00:18 PDT 1996
Article: 48534 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.structured.net!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Acronym or paupacy?  You decide.  (Or:  how to beat Giwer)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4r7ujb$1us@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com> <4ra3sm$qc6@dfw-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com> <4rdmlp$ld2@cnn.cc.biu.ac.il> <4rhbdb$m1p@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 16:53:46 GMT
Lines: 22

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com writes:

[Quote from Morgen's testimony]

# By means of a special procedure... they were burned in the 
# open air without the use of fuel."

Has it ever occurred to you that he meant "fuel", as in
"gasoline", and that he actually meant that wood was used
for the burning process?

Doesn't part of the original excerpt, which you seem to have 
intentionally deleted, credit Wirth with the method of burning, 
and therefore this supports the assumption that he really meant 
that wood was being used - because that's how corpses were burned
in the camps of which Wirth was in charge?


-Danny Keren.





From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Jul  6 08:00:19 PDT 1996
Article: 48535 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!news.erinet.com!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!news.iag.net!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!cdc2.cdc.net!news.texas.net!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!inXS.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Can Tom Moran Read? (Re: Racism in Holocaust books)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <31dd3267.3671351@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 19:06:26 GMT
Lines: 32

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

# V.                         Raul Hilberg,
#             "The Destruction of European Jews"
#
# "On October 30, 1941, Gebietskommissar Carl of Slutsk reported to
# Generalkommissar Kube of White Russia that the 11th Lithuanian Police
# Battalion had arrived in his city suddenly in order to wipe out the
# Jewish community. He had pleaded with the battalion commander for a
# postponement, pointing out that the Jews were working as skilled
# laborers and specialists and that White Russian mechanics were, '"so
# to speak, nonexistent'".
#        Stupid Russians.

Unless you misquoted the text, it's obvious that Hilberg is quoting
the German officer, not giving his opinion.

# Well it seems Hilberg gives the Poles more sense than the White
# Russians whose talents he claimed were for the most part "nonexistant"

See above. Who is making the claim? Hilberg? Or is he quoting the
German officer?

Have you considered the possibility that you are senile, and that
you cannot understand simple written text? Maybe it's time to join
Giwer and retire?


-Danny Keren.





From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Jul  6 08:00:20 PDT 1996
Article: 48537 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Perry Broad Testifies About Auschwitz
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 19:44:11 GMT
Lines: 16


Testimony of SS-Unterscharfuehrer Pery Broad, describing gassing in
Krema I in Auschwitz
[Quoted in "KL Auschwitz as Seen by the SS", p. 176]
-------------------------------------------------------------
 ... The "disinfectors" were at work. One of them was SS-Unterscharfuehrer
Teuer, decorated with the Cross of War Merit. With a chisel and a
hammer they opened a few innocuously looking tins which bore the
inscription "Cyclon, to be used against vermin. Attention, poison!
to be opened by trained personnel only!". The tins were filled to
the brim with blue granules the size of peas. Immediately after
opening the tins, their contents was thrown into the holes which
were then quickly covered. Meanwhile Grabner gave a sign to the driver
of a lorry, which had stopped close to the crematorium. The driver
started the motor and its deafening noise was louder than the
death cries of the hundreds of people inside, being gassed to death.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Jul  6 08:00:21 PDT 1996
Article: 48552 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!gatech!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!inXS.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Dr. Muench Testifies About Auschwitz
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 19:45:35 GMT
Lines: 94

Testimony of Dr. Hans W. Muench 
[Quoted in "Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military 
Tribunals" - Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1949-1953, Vol.
VIII, p. 313-321]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Q. What was your first impression of Auschwitz when you arrived?

A. I had already heard about extermination camps, and particularly
   extermination camps for Jews, through reports over the Swiss radio
   that I listened to regularly in the preceding years, but since I
   considered this news to be propaganda, I did not believe it at the
   time, because the facts that were being described seemed too 
   terribly outrageous to me. When I arrived in Auschwitz, and had to
   convince myself personally that these reports were not exaggerated, 
   I was very much shaken emotionally.
 
 .
 .
 .


Q. Mr. witness, you were informed about the fact that human beings were
   gassed at Auschwitz?

A. Yes.

 .
 .
 .

Q. Mr. witness, for what reason did you not spread the fact that human
   beings were being gassed and exterminated?

A. I was asked this very often and also before the Supreme Court of 
   Cracow, and I can say in answer to it that that would have been a 
   completely useless undertaking which would have very shortly caused 
   me and my family to be liquidated very quickly, because the Gestapo 
   was so well organized and the threats for nonobservance of the 
   secrecy that surrounded the Auschwitz exterminations were so clearly 
   worded for members of the SS that everybody avoided telling even his 
   closest friend about it, because experience taught us that anybody 
   who talked about it in any way was very quickly found because the 
   Gestapo sniffed out every rumor very consistently that spread about 
   Auschwitz.

 .
 .
 .

Q. Mr. witness, what would you say if someone visited a plant in
   Auschwitz twice or three times a year for a period of one or two
   days? Would he then have to gain knowledge about these things?

A. I repeatedly witnessed guided tours of civilians and also of
   commissions of the Red Cross and other parties within the camp,
   and I was able to ascertain that the camp leadership arranged it
   masterfully to conduct these guided tours in such a way that the 
   people being guided around did not see anything about inhuman
   treatment. The main camp was shown only and in this main camp there
   were so-called show blocks, particularly block 13, that were
   especially prepared for such guided tours and that were equipped 
   like a normal soldier's barracks with beds that had sheets on them, 
   and well-functioning washrooms. 

 .
 .
 .

Q. Mr. witness, did you personally ever witness the gassing of human
   beings?

A. Yes, I saw one gassing at one time.

 .
 .
 .

Q. Mr. witness, you testified a little earlier that those who were sick
   in the camps, like in concentration camp Monowitz, would be sent to
   Auschwitz-Birkenau, but I wasn't quite clear as to why they were 
   sent to Auschwitz-Birkenau. I'd like to put just a question or two 
   to you on that. Mr. witness, those people who were in the hospital 
   at Monowitz and were shipped to Auschwitz-Birkenau because of an
   edema or phlegmon, for what purpose were they shipped to Birkenau?

A. As far as these people were Jews, I must state that most of them
   were gassed.


Q. And, Mr. witness, if they were sent from the hospital in Monowitz to
   Auschwitz-Birkenau, and they were Jews; and they were sent because 
   of weakness and collapse, why were they sent to Birkenau?

A. Also to be gassed.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Jul  6 08:00:21 PDT 1996
Article: 48553 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!gatech!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Hofmann Testifies About Auschwitz
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 19:45:01 GMT
Lines: 12

Testimony of SS-Hauptsturmfuehrer Hofmann, about his days at Auschwitz
[Quoted from "Auschwitz: A Report on the Proceedings Against Robert 
Karl Ludwig Mulka and Others Before the Court at Frankfurt", By Bernd 
Naumann, 1966, published by Frederick A. Praeger, NY, p. 50-1]
---------------------------------------------------------------------
The Jews were asked to line up. It was my job to preserve calm and
order. The selection was carried out by doctors. The instructions
were issued by the commandants or by Grabner. Sometimes entire
transports were gassed. At times many able-bodied workers were
selected, at other times fewer. The percentage was specified in
advance. It was determined by the need for workers.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Jul  6 08:00:22 PDT 1996
Article: 48571 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!chi-news.cic.net!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!news.iag.net!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Construction in Auschwitz
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 19:54:42 GMT
Lines: 61

Letter from SS-Sturmbannfuehrer Bischoff, of the Auschwitz construction
department, to SS General Kammler, January 29, 1943
[The Final Solution: The Attempt to Exterminate the Jews of Europe,
1939-1945 - G. Reitlinger, South Brunswick, T. Yosellof, 1968, p. 158-159]
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Crematorium No. 2. The completed furnaces have been started up in
the presence of Engineer Prufer from Messers. Topf (of Erfurt). The
planks cannot yet be moved from the ceiling of the mortuary cellar
on account of frost, but this is not important, as the gassing
cellar can be used for that purpose. The ventilation plant has
been held up by restrictions on rail transport, but the installation
should be ready by February 20th.


Letter from SS-Sturmbannfuehrer Bischoff, March 6 1943
[Auschwitz: Technique and operation of the gas chambers - J.C Pressac,
the Beate Klarsfeld Foundation, NY, 1989, p. 434]
-----------------------------------------------------------------
 ... order of 6/3/1943 concerning the delivery of a gas tight door
100 x 192 cm for cellar I of Krematorium III, to be produced to
the identical pattern and dimensions as the cellar door of
Krematorium II which is situated opposite, with peephole of
double 8 mm glass, with rubber sealing strip and frame.


Letter from SS-Sturmbannfuehrer Jahrling to SS-General Kammler 
estimating the number of corpses that can be disposed off in 24 hours 
in the Auschwitz crematoriums, June 25 1943
[Auschwitz: Technique and operation of the gas chambers - J.C Pressac,
the Beate Klarsfeld Foundation, NY, 1989, p. 247]
-------------------------------------------------------------------
 1.) Crematorium I
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  3 x 2 muffles             340 persons

 2.) Crematorium II
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  5 x 3 muffles             1440 persons

 3.) Crematorium III
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  5 x 3 muffles             1440 persons 

 4.) Crematorium IV
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  8 muffles                  768 persons

 5.) Crematorium V
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  8 muffles                  768 persons


(See 

ftp://www.nizkor.eye.net/pub/nizkor/camps/auschwitz/images/Furn_cap.jpg

for a photo of this document).


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Jul  6 08:00:23 PDT 1996
Article: 48572 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!news-out.microserve.net!news-in.microserve.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!ipac.net!ossi.com!netserv.com!jolt.pagesat.net!news.clark.net!world1.bawave.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Open Gallon of Paint - paint one door - throw the rest away
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4cblcb$p1g@zippy.cais.net> <31090DAF.650@kaiwan.com>  <31dd2fc1.2993302@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 18:57:31 GMT
Lines: 46

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

#                 [repost]
#
# This post via simple mathematical recogning shows that only 15%
# or less of any Zyklon B pellets said to be the agent of mass
# extermiantion (gas) would have been used for the alleged mass
# extermination, leaving 85% or more as not used, thereby showing 
# that the product Zyklon B would have been an idiotic thing for 
# the Germans to have used, and an idiotic thing for anyone to 
# keep trying to push on hte world. 

But it has been explained to you, over and over again, that what
you write above is a lie. The HCN evaporates much faster than what
you claim. You admit you have no technical source to support your
claims re the evaporation rate; you *were* presented with technical
material, written by Dr. Gerhard Peters and others, which proves
you're lying.

What do you hope to accomplish, by reposting your lies over and
over again?

A few days ago, you wrote about the outgassing time of HCN from
Zyklon:

# Maybe it is six hours. Maybe it could be days or even months.

You simply have no idea what you're talking about. Look at the
above. A range given from "six hours" to "months". 

Moreover, if there was some HCN residue in the Zyklon when the
victims died, it was rather easy to handle: the sonderkommando
used gas masks in some of the gas chambers, while in others a
very simple mechanism was used, which allowed to extract the
Zyklon from the chambers after the victims died, thus solving
the alleged "problem" of dealing with the HCN the Zyklon may
have continued to release.

Can you *really* not understand all this? After so many times?


-Danny Keren.






From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Jul  6 08:00:23 PDT 1996
Article: 48573 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!tezcat.com!imci5!pull-feed.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: SS-Obersturmfuehrer Franz Hoessler Testifies About Auschwitz
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 19:47:04 GMT
Lines: 26



Testimony of SS-Obersturmfuehrer Franz Hoessler  
[Quoted in "The Belsen Trial" - Edited by R. Phillips, William Hodge
and Company, 1949, p. 714-715]
----------------------------------------------------------------
Everyone in the camp knew about the gas chamber at Auschwitz, but at 
no time did I take part in the selection of prisoners who were to go to
the gas chambers and then be cremated. Whilst I was there selection of
prisoners for the gas chambers was done by Dr. Klein, Dr. Mengele and
other young doctors whose names I do not know. I have attended these
parades, but my job was merely to keep order. Often women were paraded
naked in front of the doctors and persons selected by the doctors were
sent to the gas chamber.

 .
 .
 .

I made many complaints to Hoess about the way people were being sent to
the gas chamber, but I was told it was not my business.




-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Jul  6 08:00:24 PDT 1996
Article: 48575 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: BRADLEY SMITH'S WEBSITE IS SHUT DOWN
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4rj7ov$5sk@news-e2b.gnn.com> <31dd275c.844581@news.pacificnet.net>  <31dd5fb8.10396478@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 19:26:07 GMT
Lines: 41

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

## Unlike "leading revisionist" Ernst Zundel, I do not believe
## in silencing those who do not agree with me. As many people
## have said - let the "revisionist" neo-Nazi scum be out here 
## in the open, for all the world to see.

# We can only wait to see what action you or Nizkor will take to
# challenge this iniquous slashing of our 1st Amendment.

I have no idea who decided to shut down Smith's web page, and
for what reason. If this information will be supplied, I'll
look at it. If it turns out that the only reason for doing so
is indeed Smith's "revisionist" views, I will write the provider
who shut down his page, and tell them that, although I believe
"Holocaust revisionists" to be the scum of the Earth, I object
to this kind of action.

Are you happy now?

BTW, another proof to the true opinion of "revisionists" re 
free speech was recently given on soc.culture.german. One
"revisionist" posted a story of alleged crimes by Soviet
troops against German civilians during WW2. A poster from
Germany replied, by proving that it is impossible these crimes
took place (because the Soviets have not yet occupied the city
in which the alleged atrocities occurred, by the time they
allegedly did).

The response of the "revisionist", was that the fellow who
replied to him should be killed, by being hanged from a
meat hook.

Nazi scum is nazi scum is nazi scum... it doesn't change.


-Danny Keren.





From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Jul  6 08:00:25 PDT 1996
Article: 48587 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: a new approach, same old troll
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4r7ujb$1us@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com> <4rbn4p$rsi@bell.maths.tcd.ie> <4rc6h1$s20@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <4rk0s9$qh0@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 22:31:39 GMT
Lines: 50

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com writes:

# Anyone want to explain this one? 

[Erroneous testimony about Belsec camp]

Anyone want to explain the testimonies about Dresden's bombing? 
"Puddles of melted human flesh"? People who turned into an
"undulating layer of fine gray ashes" although the fire
didn't even touch them? People "glowing red and orange" 
(also, although the fire didn't even touch them)?

If the fact that there are erroneous reports about the
Holocaust implies it never took place, so, by the same logic,
Dresden was never bombed, and WW2 never took place.

There are erroneous reports about the death camps; they were
authored by Poles who spied on them. As opposed to what Giwer
claims, these reports were indeed written by members of the 
Polish underground who spied on the camps. Some of these
reports contain errors about the methods used to kill the
victims. After all, these Polish spies were not given a guided 
tour of the camps and the gas chambers.

Giwer can only keep posting these reports, dozens of time a
day. Usually, he simply appends them to the end of an article
he is "responding" to, his only "response" being the report.
He cannot do anything else (save for calling people "pig",
"dumb fuck", "fat broad", "piece of shit", etc).

A rational person would realize that the more accurate testimony
on these camps is from the SS-men who built them and who ran
the death machinery with their own hands, as well as from the
surviving "sonderkommando" members. 

Giwer will keep posting the erroneous reports, dozens of times 
a day; this is all a person of his intelligence can do. But he
must realize that his position is equivalent to the position of
someone who claims that, because of such erroneous testimonies
about Dresden as mentioned above, the city was never bombed. 


-Danny Keren.


-- 
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Jul  6 11:48:25 PDT 1996
Article: 78985 of soc.culture.german
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: I think Germans have an evil gene.[forwarded]
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4rg669$p7h@news.ios.com> <4rh8f8$aib@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com> <4rk2lg$9rk@cambridge.emi.net>
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 23:24:00 GMT
Lines: 8

This is apparently a troll, written by the neo-Nazi "Huber"
poster, who is posing as a Jew.


-Danny Keren.





From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Jul  6 12:20:44 PDT 1996
Article: 72130 of control
Control: cancel 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.dacom.co.kr!news.kigam.re.kr!news.postech.ac.kr!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!wilbur.ohww.norman.ok.us!news.cais.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.texas.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: cancel
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 23:23:00 GMT
Lines: 6

 was cancelled from within trn.
-- 
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.


From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Jul  8 08:50:00 PDT 1996
Article: 48893 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Perry Broad Testifies About Auschwitz
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <5JUL199610570486@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu> <4rjvdb$64t@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 1996 00:01:10 GMT
Lines: 27



ehrlich606@aol.com (Ehrlich606) writes:

# [The above is Keren's post.  *blue granules the size of peas* 
# contradicts Nyiszli's testimony of *mauve granulated substance*.  

Sigh. I expected more of you. 

The color of the Zyklon pellets is usually described as "bluish".
One person could describe it as "mauve", which is a shade of purple.

# It also contradicts the B&W photo in *Death Dealer* which shows 
# polygonal cat litter sized pellets.  

Which photo? There were a few kinds of HCN carriers.

# Finally *the size of peas* implies spheres -- it does not imply
# cubes, therefore, no ERCO.]

No, *size* does not imply *shape*.

Get a grip. You're starting to sound like Giwer.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Jul  8 08:50:01 PDT 1996
Article: 48895 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: 'They probably thought they were being inoculated'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <31de713b.996449@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 1996 00:16:03 GMT
Lines: 30


tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

[About Joseph Klehr]

# For a while, the testimony was getting to me. Then it 
# gets to exaggerated to handle. "10,000"? 

Klehr himself claimed he killed "only" about 500. All the other
witnesses gave a far higher number. 10,000 may sound a lot, but
divide it over 2 years or so, and it's not that much - per day,
that is.

# Well, this guy Klehr got his, but what about those other ones
# that got only 3 1/2 to 4 1/2 years. 

Which, indeed, reflects on the fact that many of the sentences
handed out by the German courts were rather short. The major
factor was whether the accused person was only following direct
orders, or was he killing "on a whim", out of sadistic pleasure.

Hans Stark killed many more people than, for instance, Stephane
Baretzki. But he was under direct orders, and under a threat of 
death, so he got 10 years; Baretzki got life, because he killed 
people without being ordered to.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Jul  8 08:50:01 PDT 1996
Article: 48917 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!fury.berkshire.net!news.albany.net!news.sover.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Revisionism Defined
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4rk1ov$74m@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 1996 00:55:55 GMT
Lines: 45


brlhagen@aol.com (Brlhagen) writes:

[A whole lot of empty rhetoric deleted]

# 5 - What is the basis for Revisionists asserting there was
# no attempted genocide of the Jews?  The linch-pin in this 
# argument is simply that there were no gas chambers, none, 
# zero, nada.  There is no evidence of gas chambers that an 
# objective person can find credible.

Yawn. Try to *prove* what you state. There's plenty of such
evidence, which a great many courts, for instance, including
a great many German courts, found very credible. 

Try to *prove* what you claim. Don't just make void statements.

# There are no documents, no orders, no planning, no blueprints

There you go. This is an outright lie; there are orders, there
are blueprints, there are documents. Some are routinely
posted here.

You're simply lying. Many times. Any reason I should go on reading
your article?

Ok, I did go on reading...

[Regarding testimonies of SS-men about gassings]

# Most are "coerced" confessions, as in "sign this or we'll pull 
# some more of your fingernails out.  Or we'll turn your wife and 
# children over to the Russians."

Another outright lie. There is no proof that *one* such testimony
was obtained by such means. Moreover, a great many such testimonies
were given to German courts, and I haven't yet seen one "revisionist"
who claimed the Germans tortured these German SS-men into confessing.

It seems you're a pathological liar; if not, why are you lying
so much? Please explain.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Jul  8 08:50:02 PDT 1996
Article: 48941 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!fury.berkshire.net!news.albany.net!news.sover.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.ultranet.com!bigboote.WPI.EDU!news3.near.net!cambridge-news.cygnus.com!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: AN ADMISSION OF PERFIDIOUS GUILT
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4rc02l$kj9@tor-nn1-hb0.netcom.ca> <4rhbbi$oe4@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>  <4rknkp$6a8@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 1996 00:06:36 GMT
Lines: 25


mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes:

# Save there is PHYSICAL evidence of a burned Dresden 

We are still waiting to see it. You have yet to provide such
"physical evidence" which would pass the "revisionist" standards
applied when evidence to the Holocaust is given.

Provide it, or shut up.

As long as you don't provide it, you are also "proving" (by
an extension of your "revisionist arguments") that Dresden was
not bombed.

# of mass extermination at Belsen.

I think you're confusing Belsen and Belzec. Please check this
before you're making further claims about Belsen (which are, of
course, irrelevant to Belzec).


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Jul  8 08:50:03 PDT 1996
Article: 48974 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: [Fwd: NO nerve gas?]
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <31DCE1FC.1AAA@buffnet.net> <4rl43t$6a8@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 1996 00:59:48 GMT
Lines: 25


mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes:

# It was precisely this matter that my skepticism about the gassing.  
# I had no idea what gas was used.  I had only heard about gassing.
#
# But I had heard of the times involved and nerve gas appeared to the
# likely agent.  

What "times involved"? What on earth are you talking about?

Back to your rubbish of the HCN "taking too long to evaporate"?

# When it turned out to be plain old cyanide the entire house of
# cards collapsed.  

So, no gassings in US prisons also? They also use cyanide, right?

Get a grip, Giwer.


-Danny Keren.





From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Jul  8 08:50:03 PDT 1996
Article: 48977 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Open Gallon of Paint - paint one door - throw the rest away
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4cblcb$p1g@zippy.cais.net> <31dd2fc1.2993302@news.pacificnet.net>  <31de6f67.528708@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 1996 01:04:43 GMT
Lines: 15


tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

# Using the "40" number supplied by the former professor, that
# would be evaporated in the first half hour, 

I *explicitly noted* that this was not my figure, but that it was
supplied by "revisionist" Germar Rudolph. The correct figure is
higher, and I gave very exact citations for it; I even scanned
the relevant technical information and posted it to a web site.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Jul  8 08:50:04 PDT 1996
Article: 48996 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!news.dgsys.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-4.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!uunet!inXS.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: No gas chamber in the old reich, sorry!
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4quqbi$dv6@Vir.com>  <4rp1c4$4d7@news-e2b.gnn.com>
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 1996 00:38:27 GMT
Lines: 16


Widmann@gnn.com (Richard Widmann) writes:

# Actually if you read the article below you will see that
# Broszat doesn't say that there were no gas chambers in the
# Old Reich but that there were no gassings.

No. He mentions three camps in which he says no gassing took
place. There were many other camps in the "Old Reich", and
gassing took place in some of them: Mauthuasen, Neuengamme,
Ravensbrueck and others.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Jul  9 07:36:43 PDT 1996
Article: 49141 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news1.io.org!winternet.com!n1ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!usenet2.news.uk.psi.net!uknet!usenet1.news.uk.psi.net!uknet!EU.net!Norway.EU.net!nntp.uio.no!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Phenol or Gas
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4rl3ln$ilv@juliana.sprynet.com>  <4rp4ht$2gq@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 1996 19:39:08 GMT
Lines: 20

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes:
# mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:

## Well, because the Nazis weren't "experimenting" with phenol 
## shots. The Nazis used phenol shots as a method of execution
## for the sick and invalided in the infirmaries. As to the time
## it took to kill- a phenol shot to the heart killed in a matter
## of seconds. 

# But where did they get the six inch needles to reach the heart? 

You need a needle six inches long to reach the heart? 

Even if so, is the Giwer really claiming that Nazi Germany could
not manufacture, or find, needles long enough to reach the heart?


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Jul  9 07:36:43 PDT 1996
Article: 49161 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!uunet!inXS.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: A 'Revisionist Engineer' Takes the Stand
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 1996 22:51:45 GMT
Lines: 62

This is a verbatim quote from the cross-examination of Fred 
Leuchter, "revisionist scholar, engineer and scientist":

[Pages 9196-9198 of the transcript in Zundel's trial. 
Cross-examination conducted by Mr. Pearson]:


Q: Now, Mr. Leuchter, Mr. Christie, when he was reviewing your
   qualifications, said that, if my note is correct, you graduated
   from from university in a field that entitles you to function as
   as engineer and you responded in the affirmative to that question?

A: Yes. I have a Bachelor of Arts degree.

Q: You graduated with a Bachelor of Arts degree?

A: Right.

Q: When?

A: You mean what year?

Q: What year?

A: 1964.

Q: 1964. And that's the only University degree you have?

A: That's correct.

Q: You don't have a Bachelor of Science degree?

A: No.

Q: You don't have a Master of Science degree; you don't have a 
   Ph.D in science?

A: Correct.

Q: You don't have a degree in engineering?

A: That's correct.

Q: Do you belong to any supervising disciplinary professional body?

A: I don't understand the question, counselor.

Q: Well, do you belong to a governing body of engineers?

A: I -- governing body? I do not understand. Are you saying do I
   belong to any scientific societies?

Q: No, is there any body of engineers that supervises you and
   disciplines you in your engineering function?

A: No. 




-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Jul  9 07:36:44 PDT 1996
Article: 49162 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!uunet!inXS.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: David 'Revisionist Scholar' Irving In Action
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 1996 22:55:18 GMT
Lines: 62

      Summary: A "leading revisionist scholar" in action;
        Irving's extreme dishonesty and deceitfulness
      ---------------------------------------------------
 
Together with Robert Faurisson, David Irving is considered by
Holocaust-deniers as a "leading revisionist" worldwide. It is not
absolutely clear how Irving is viewed by the deniers and other
neo-Nazis now, after he recently stated that the Nazis did kill
4 million Jews (a figure lower than the true one, however far 
higher than the one usually given by Holocaust-deniers).
 
Nontheless, it may be worthwhile to take a look at a typical
"Irving argument". Faurisson's "technique" of using outright lies 
and deceit was covered in a different article. 
 
In an article quoted a few times by "Jeff Roberts" on this 
group, Irving is answering Pearson, during his appearance as
a witness in the Zundel trial; Roberts' text (and Irving's)
is preceded by "#".
 
# Pearson [prosecutor at the Zundel trial] mentioned a report number
# 51 dated December 1, 1942, which mentioned 363,211 Soviet Jews
# executed over the past three months. 
#
# I can only repeat what I said previously,  said [David] Irving,
# that this was such an extraordinary document, that the figure
# was so unusual [...].
#
# "This document is very much an orphan," said Irving.
 
This is an outright lie; Irving cannot directly challenge the
document, so he tries to cast doubts by claiming it is an
"orphan document", not supported by other documents.
 
Being the "leading revisionist scholar" he is, Irving must have 
"forgotten" some other documents. His "orphan document" has,
in fact, many relatives; here are some.
 
1) Letter from Generalkommisar for white Russia, Kube, to Reichkommisar
   for the Ostland, Lohse, 31 July 1942. Reports that 55,000 Jews
   were murdered in the last ten weeks.
 
2) Letter from Inspector of Armaments in the Ukraine to General of
   Infantry, Thomas, December 2 1941. Reports that so far up to
   200,000 Jews were murdered in the Nazi-occupied Ukraine.
 
3) Letter from SS Major-General Stahlecker to SS General Heydrich, 
   January 31, 1942. Reports that, so far, 229,000 Jews were
   murdered in the "Eastern Territories".

4) Detailed report by SS-Standartenfuehrer Jager about mass killings
   in Nazi occupied USSR, July-November 1941. Reports that, so far,
    more than 130,000 Jews were murdered in Nazi-occupied Lithuania
 
Perhaps Irving never heard about these documents?
 
Perhaps he did, and he's lying through his teeth?
 
Either way, he's a "revisionist scholar".
 
 
-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Jul  9 07:36:45 PDT 1996
Article: 49163 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!gatech!paladin.american.edu!zombie.ncsc.mil!newsgate.duke.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!scramble.lm.com!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!nntp.coast.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Robert 'Revisionist Scholar' Faurisson In Action
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 1996 22:53:41 GMT
Lines: 61

      Summary: A "leading revisionist scholar" in action;
       Faurisson's extreme dishonesty and deceitfulness
      ---------------------------------------------------

Robert Faurisson is considered by Holocaust-deniers as, perhaps,
the "leading revisionist" worldwide (he used to share this title
with David Irving, but now that Irving stated that 4 million Jews
died in the Holocaust, his status in the "revisionist" community
is not that clear).

A truly astounding examples of Faurisson's tactic of lies and
deceit is demonstrated in his piece titled "The 'Problem of the 
Gas Chambers'", posted here by the tireless Marc Lemire.

In this piece, Faurisson "surveys" the gas chambers in the
various camps, and tries to "prove" there is not sufficient
evidence that they existed. 

On two of the worst death camps, Treblinka and Belzec, Faurisson
writes:

# For proof that the "gas chambers" in Belzec or Treblinka really
# existed, one is asked to rely essentially upon the statement of 
# Kurt Gerstein.

That's about it; Faurisson goes on to state that Gerstein's
testimony cannot be trusted. But that's not the point.

Who was Kurt Gerstein? He was an SS-officer, who saw Belzec and
Treblinka just one time. He wasn't stationed in them. He visited
them once, and saw a gassing operation. His testimony is accurate
on the whole, although it is definitely emotional; also, he 
overestimated the number of people who were pushed into a single 
gas chamber. 

So what does "leading revisionist" Faurisson do? Very simple. He
"forgets" all other evidence to what happened in these camps:
documents, physical remains, and numerous other testimonies, for
instance those given by SS-men who served in these camps for a
long time and, of course, provided a far more accurate and detailed
picture than Gerstein. SS-men like Stangl, who commanded Treblinka;
Franz, his deputy; and others (Mentz, Matthes, Lambert, Oberhauser,
Suchomel, Horn, etc).

By not mentioning all these witnesses, and focusing on Gerstein,
Faurisson is being extremely dishonest. First, he is lying when
he states that "one is asked to rely essentially upon the statement 
of Kurt Gerstein"; there is a far greater body of evidence. Second,
not only does Faurisson mention only one witness among many, he
also - intentionally, obviously - chooses one that saw the camps
only once and, as a result, gave a testimony which is less accurate
than the testimony of those who spent a lot of time in the camps.

Faurisson's work is not "historical research". It is a miserable
collection of outright lies, omissions, and misinterpretations,
of which the above is a spectacular, but in no way unique,
example.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Jul  9 09:55:23 PDT 1996
Article: 79125 of soc.culture.german
Newsgroups: talk.politics.european-union,soc.culture.nordic,soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: German hegemony over Europe through the European Union
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4i63p3$l5@axl02it.ntc.nokia.com>  <4r66a6$1l62@sol.caps.maine.edu> 
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 1996 19:17:17 GMT
Lines: 21
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca talk.politics.european-union:4670 soc.culture.nordic:46269 soc.culture.german:79125

olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg) writes:

# I have studied Daniel Keren's debating technique in alt.revisionism
# and he usually goes after some weak spots and flaws which he then
# exposes hoping that this will make people believe that all the rest
# is just as dubious. 

All the "revisionist" material I have seen so far has only weak spots.

# I have been debating the Lueftl report in details in
# alt.revisionism where this discussion belongs.

The "Lueftl report" is garbage. I have explained why. I have explained,
in considerable detail, why his claims re Zyklon-B and diesel exhaust
are totally false.


-Danny Keren.





From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Jul  9 12:46:16 PDT 1996
Article: 49218 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!fury.berkshire.net!news.albany.net!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: No gas chamber in the old reich, sorry!
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4quqbi$dv6@Vir.com> <836095557snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>  <836609732snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 1996 00:20:51 GMT
Lines: 29


Alexander Baron  writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com "Daniel Keren" writes:

# Dan, Dan, Dan, I did not say the Old Reich, I said Dachau. 

But I wasn't commenting on your article. I was commenting on an
article which spoke of the Old Reich.

# You admit then that he claimed there were no gassings in Dachau? 

Yes. But the opinion of most historians I've consulted is that 
gassing did take place there, on a small scale.

## Natzweiler and others. It is true that they were not used 
## for mass murder on the scale of Treblinka, Auschwitz etc.; 
## in Natzweiler, for instance, only about 200 victims were gassed.

# Pressac says 86 but what's 114 corpses between friends?

Pressac talks about the gassings with HCN. There were other
gassings, in which Gypsies were exposed to various other poison
gases; "Nazi Mass Murder", (Yale Uni. Press, 1993) has more
details.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Jul  9 12:46:17 PDT 1996
Article: 49219 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!fury.berkshire.net!news.albany.net!imci3!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Who would be Gannon?
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4cblcb$p1g@zippy.cais.net> <31DDD98A.3518@unb.ca> <4rm3i1$mr5@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <31deaac4.8665901@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 1996 00:24:40 GMT
Lines: 8


Ken, you forgot another Gannon:

11) Claim you have a "full-blooded Jewess" for a girlfriend.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Jul  9 12:46:18 PDT 1996
Article: 49220 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!fury.berkshire.net!news.albany.net!news.sover.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-4.sprintlink.net!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: BRADLEY SMITH'S WEBSITE SHUT DOWN
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <00002fc9+00008a90@msn.com>
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 1996 00:32:36 GMT
Lines: 20


CODOH@msn.com (Bradley Smith) writes:

# Even little Danny Keren 

Hmm. "Little"? In terms of body weight? Compared to you? Sure.

Hope I'm still "fit for work", nontheless? Can still do 'bout
50 push-ups and 15 pull-ups, on a good day.

# is against this sort of Stalinist move to harass and if possible 
# control an open debate on the Holocaust Controversy. 

As I said, I prefer to wait and see *exactly* why the site was
closed. Ok, big guy? As I said, if it's *only* because of the
so-called "revisionist" views, I strongly protest this action.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Jul  9 14:22:21 PDT 1996
Article: 49249 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: [Fwd: NO nerve gas?]
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <31DCE1FC.1AAA@buffnet.net> <4rl43t$6a8@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com>  <4rt1ug$51g@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 18:31:36 GMT
Lines: 31


mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes:

# Evidence of that was posted here in the "greater part of" 
# technical report on it, noting that "greater part of" is a 
# technical term for "half of" in english 

Excuse me? "Greater part" means "half"? Does the greater
part of English speakers agree to this?

# indicating an exponentially decaying release.  That
# post lead to 6-12 hours as the 99% release time.

No, the article specifically noted that, even at below zero
temperatures, there was no residue of HCN after "an hour, or
at most two".

Moreover, what does that have to do with the time it took for
the victims to die? Using a concentration similar to that used
for delousing would kill the victims very quickly, before all
the HCN evaporated. 

# Repeat after me, A computer scientist is an applied
# mathematician not a scientist save in title.  

Sob sob. At least we can find jobs, while early-retired-163-
IQ'ed-former-engineers apparently can't.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Jul  9 14:22:24 PDT 1996
Article: 49252 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!inXS.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: AN ADMISSION OF PERFIDIOUS GUILT
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4rc02l$kj9@tor-nn1-hb0.netcom.ca> <4ro3uv$ivb@access4.digex.net> <31E000D9.6947@unb.ca> <4rs723$nhe@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 18:40:16 GMT
Lines: 14

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes:

# Did god provide the bomb sight films?  

But "revisionists" always say "photographs can be faked". 
Surely, so can films. 

You have to accept that, using "revisionist methods", it
can also be "proved" that Dresden was never bombed.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Jul 10 06:53:02 PDT 1996
Article: 49335 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: BRADLEY SMITH'S WEBSITE SHUT DOWN
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <00002fc9+00008a90@msn.com>  <31e24b59.4583106@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 18:35:22 GMT
Lines: 21


tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

# It would be a tactical error for the likes of the former
# professor, or the former impersonating professor, whichever 
# the case may be, 

Ah, that old inferiority complex kicks in. Perhaps you'll
clarify your statement about me being an "impersonating professor"?

# to come out and downright endorse the censorship. Any
# statement he says in support of free speech I see as just 
# a tacit approval to give the illusion he is for free speech. 

So, nazi-boy, it doesn't matter what I say, it only matters
what you think I really mean? 


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Jul 10 06:53:03 PDT 1996
Article: 49338 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Another word on Dachau
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4rs84h$s9l@news-e2d.gnn.com> <4rsqsj$ag2@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 19:04:59 GMT
Lines: 25

ehrlich606@aol.com (Ehrlich606) writes:

# I am sure that the response you will receive will be along the
# lines of *some other room was used for such gassings*

No. The response is that there is indeed disagreement whether the
gas chamber was used, and if so, to what extent.

Both Prof. Israel Gutman and the historians in the "Institute
For Contemporary History" in Munich, for instance, believe it
was used on a small scale. So says Reitlinger, in "The Final
Solution". 

#  Actually, if what Mr. Wiesenthal says is true, it
# casts a dim light on the by now well known Rascher *combat 
# gases* letter -- which I seem to recall antedated the end of the
# war by some time.

Actually, no. The letter says that the gassing facilities are
being built, not that they were completed.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Jul 10 06:53:04 PDT 1996
Article: 49349 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!news.nd.edu!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-11.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!inXS.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The true revisionist theme
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4r21k7$c5a@panix2.panix.com> <4ra194$8tj@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4roq3u$nf3@access4.digex.net> <836784995snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 18:53:39 GMT
Lines: 38

Alexander Baron  writes:

[About SS-men tried by the German Legal System]

# Most of these guys had been on remand for three or more years. 

So what?

# A trial that lasts for 20 months, any sort of trial, is absolutely
# hopeless. 

Utter nonsense. Have you totally flipped?

Stop dodging the question.

Why, in all these trials - and there were many of them - did
not *one* SS-men deny the gassings?

Surely, you must realize that this poses *some* problem to the
"revisionists"?

# At the Auschwitz Trial most of the defendants used the same old 
# excuse please sir it wasn't me. 

So what? What does this holy mantra of yours supposed to prove?

# Baer didn't come to trial; he died in custody having denied 
# gassings. 

I have never seen any reference to this. Supply the proof that he
denied gassings or we'll have to conclude that you're lying on
this one also. I did see one quote of Baer, and all he said is that
the murders took place in Birkenau, while he was in charge of 
Auschwitz I.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Jul 10 06:53:05 PDT 1996
Article: 49363 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!uniserve!news.sol.net!newspump.sol.net!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!news.iag.net!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The Best of Nizkor
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <31d921ee.5817326@news.pacificnet.net> <31e02f2c.10612004@news.pacificnet.net> <31E0FE9C.708B@rio.com> <4rt1tm$51g@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 19:16:28 GMT
Lines: 46

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes:

# According to the Toronto Globe and Mail, Arnold Friedman swore
# under oath that he had seen "fourteen foot flames" shooting out
# of the chimneys of crematorium at Auschwitz,

Mike Stein had a long talk with a crematory operator. The guy
said that this is a known phenomena, which even has a name 
("candle").

# and that he was able to tell whether the Nazis were burning fat
# Jewish Hungarians or skinny Jewish Poles by looking at the different
# colors of the smoke and flames coming out of the crematorium. 

Yes. Can you prove to us, or convince us, that this is indeed 
impossible? Namely, that burning fat may result in a different
type of smoke and smell compared to burning flesh? I admit that
I don't know. But how do you know it's impossible?

# On cross-examination, however, Mr. Friedman reversed himself upon
# being presented with details of crematorium operation, and was
# forced to agree that perhaps Jews were not being burned in
# crematoria buildings.

This, my 163-IQ-man, is a *revisionist interpretation*. Quote the
whole, accurate text of his testimony. 

What do you think the crematoria was built for? Heck, even you
crazed "revisionists" don't deny Jews were cremated in the
crematorium furnaces.

# Mr. Friedman then made the startling confession that
# his entire testimony was based on what he had been told
# by others. 

Again, bring the *exact and complete* text of what he said.


-Danny Keren.


-- 
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.


From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Jul 11 07:22:02 PDT 1996
Article: 49530 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!news-w.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The Best of Nizkor
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <31d921ee.5817326@news.pacificnet.net> <4rt1tm$51g@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>  <4rvre4$djm@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 22:31:58 GMT
Lines: 18

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes:

#        He admitted he lied under oath.  
#
#        What more do you want?   

I said it very clearly: I want the full text of his testimony,
not what "revisionists" claim he said. Why should we believe
"revisionists", who have proven themselves - numerous times - 
to be pathological liars?

Ok?


-Danny Keren.





From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Jul 11 07:22:03 PDT 1996
Article: 49649 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!uniserve!news.sol.net!newspump.sol.net!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!news.iag.net!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!inXS.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Another word on Dachau
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4ru86b$210@d31sg0.Stanford.EDU> <4ruvv1$5kj@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 21:06:54 GMT
Lines: 27

ehrlich606@aol.com (Ehrlich606) writes:

# I will go along with that assertion.  But why *may*? In other
# words, why bring up Dachau at all?  My thinking is because there
# were assertions in 1945 or thereabouts that gassings took place
# but that these assertions have been dropped.  

No. As noted here many times, *all* historians believe gassing
facilities were being built in Dachau; the Rascher letter, BTW,
clearly proves this. 

Some historians believe there is not sufficient evidence to prove
beyond doubt that they were used; but many agree that gassings did
take place there, on a relatively small scale.

I suggest reading the relevant chapter in "Nazi Mass Murder", Yale
Uni. Press, 1993.


-Danny Keren.


-- 
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.


From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Jul 11 10:18:20 PDT 1996
Article: 49660 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!news.inforamp.net!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!scramble.lm.com!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-11.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-3.sprintlink.net!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!inXS.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: It was amazing
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4rvh9s$qef@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 21:24:39 GMT
Lines: 67

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes:

# Then came the asshole holohuggers playing their ancient games.

Get a job, punk. No nazihugger here willing to give this
person a job? The punk had to retire at the age of 46, 
apparently because no one wanted him anymore (not to mention
his other personal problems). That's one of the reasons for his
hostility.
 
# First they claimed with transparent falsity that Dresden
# was solely based upon testimony as is their holocaust.  

No one claimed that. The claim was made that "revisionist
arguments" can be easily applied to "prove" that Dresden was
never bombed.

Look at the Dresden story. We have

1) Preposterous "testimony" (of "puddles of melted flesh 4
   foot deep", people turning into an "undulating layer of fine
   gray ashes" although the fire didn't even touch them, etc).

(Inaccurate testimonies are routinely used by Nazis to "prove"
the Holocaust never took place).

2) A huge range of figures given for the number of victims - 
   between 35,000 and 500,000.

(Nazis routinely claim that, because of some differences in
estimates to the numbers of victims in some camps, "there was
no Holocaust").

In addition, we have Giwer's total lack of capability to supply
physical evidence for Dresden's firebombing, except for some
vague references to "mission films" or whatever. 

Not only has he failed to provide them, we all know that 
"revisionists" *never* accept documents as proof. They want
PHYSICAL EVIDENCE. Not documents, not photographs (they claim
these all can be faked).

Show us the PHYSICAL EVIDENCE, punk.

# Next they claimed that one document of questionable origin was

More than one, of course.

# equal to thousands of documents and press releases regarding
# the raid.

There are many thousands of documents and press releases regarding
the Holocaust.

You get another F. Sorry, punk, but if you continue with your
stupidity, no one will ever offer you a job (save for the IHR,
maybe).


-Danny Keren.


-- 
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.


From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Jul 11 11:10:30 PDT 1996
Article: 79404 of soc.culture.german
Newsgroups: talk.politics.european-union,soc.culture.nordic,soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: German pressure and hegemony
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4i63p3$l5@axl02it.ntc.nokia.com> <9607051630.AA26467@gonix.gonix.com> 
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 00:32:03 GMT
Lines: 18
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca talk.politics.european-union:4774 soc.culture.nordic:46303 soc.culture.german:79404

olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg) writes:

# You are lying. The IHR is unpolitical, although many members
# of the staff may privately be "rigth-winged" or patriots.

Greg Raven, who now runs the IHR and represents them on the
net, wrote on GEnie that Hitler was a "great man", and "the
best thing that could have happened to Germany".

Patriots, you say?

You really think you're fooling anyone with your repetitious
rubbish?


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Jul 11 11:10:32 PDT 1996
Article: 79407 of soc.culture.german
Newsgroups: talk.politics.european-union,soc.culture.nordic,soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: German hegemony over Europe through the European Union
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4i63p3$l5@axl02it.ntc.nokia.com>   
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 22:15:06 GMT
Lines: 48
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca talk.politics.european-union:4775 soc.culture.nordic:46304 soc.culture.german:79407

olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg) writes:

# I have found an article in an English pamphlet titled
# "Holocaust" News.

Kreiberg always finds these odd articles. Like the one about 
"difficulties" in cremating many corpses, because a corpse
may "explode" when inserted into a hot furnace. One wonders
where he goes to look for such things. Maybe, as a child, he
used to collect doggie-do, and the habit caught on?

# Any chemist will tell you - ask one! - that hydrogen cyanide
# gas clings to surfaces and persists in crevices and orifices
# to such an extent that it would be lethal for unprotected 
# persons to open and enter a gas chamber, let alone remove
# bodies and search them, for at least 20 hours after the chamber 
# and its contents had been thouroughly been ventilated.

Absolute rubbish. In some of the gas chambers, the "sonderkommando"
who had to remove the corpses were given gas masks. In others
(in Krema II and III) the air was replaced *after* the Zyklon
was taken out, hence no problem with residues of gas.

# Zyklon B is hydrogen cyanid gas absorbed in diatomite (a 
# porous powder). Gas is released slowly (hours) because of the
# nature of the absorbing substance. This slowness is another 
# reason for it's inadequacy as an agent mass gassing.

More rubbish. The release of the HCN from the Zyklon in its
Erco carrier is very fast. This is elaborated on in books and
papers on Zyklon, written, among others, by Dr. Gerhard Peters,
the general manager of Degesch, one of the major producers of
Zyklon before and during WW2.

I have yet to see a "revisionist" prove this assertion about the
"slow release" by standing in a closed chamber while Zyklon-B
is thrown into it. What would their Fuehrer say about this
cowardice?

Kreiberg, how long will you continue to post this tired old 
rubbish? Why don't you come up with something new? You're such 
a bore. 


-Danny Keren.





From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Jul 11 11:10:33 PDT 1996
Article: 79408 of soc.culture.german
Newsgroups: talk.politics.european-union,soc.culture.nordic,soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!news.texas.net!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!inXS.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Kreiberg's Nonsense, Again (Re: German hegemony over Euro
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4i63p3$l5@axl02it.ntc.nokia.com> <9607080808.AA11818@itwsn2.itw.uni-stuttgart.de> 
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 22:24:35 GMT
Lines: 30
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca talk.politics.european-union:4776 soc.culture.nordic:46305 soc.culture.german:79408

olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg) writes:

# Fred Leuchter was a total unpolitical person until he
# was hired by professor Robert Faurisson as a witness in 
# the Zundel case. Leuchter had built a gas chamber for
# execution for the American authorities.

That's a damned lie. Leuchter never, ever, built a gas
chamber for anyone. If you claim he did, name the prison
in which this gas chamber exists.

He's a little-time charlatan, who was taken to court in the
US for presenting himself as an engineer, while he really
only has a BA in the Arts.

One of Leuchter's claims was "the SS-men throwing the Zyklon in
would die when the gas would rise towards them". The miserable
fool didn't even hear of gas masks, a standard equipment for
people using Zyklon. 

And who's even a bigger idiot than Leuchter? Those who believe
his crap. Get a grip, Kreiberg. Even your fellow "revisionists"
have admitted that Leuchter's "report" is worthless. They must
be sorry, though, for having paid the twit a few tens-of-thousands
of dollars...


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Jul 11 15:38:02 PDT 1996
Article: 49715 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,alt.revisionism,talk.politics.european-union
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.fibr.net!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4i63p3$l5@axl02it.ntc.nokia.com>   
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 19:16:08 GMT
Lines: 33
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.german:79431 alt.revisionism:49715 talk.politics.european-union:4784

olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg) writes;

# Cyclon or Zyklon B as it was called in Germany (B stands for 
# Blausaeure) came in pellets. These pellets might have hit the 
# naked prisoners on the way down to the cold flor but I don't 
# think that they might have been long enough in contact with 
# the alleged human bodies to have an influence on the temperature 
# of the absorbed liquid.

Irrelevant. As I have posted, a paper published in 1941 by Dr.
Gerhard Peters (general manager of Degesch, major manufacturer
of Zyklon-B before and during the war), studies the evaporation
of the cyanide gas from the HCN at rather low temperatures (as
low as -12 Celsius). It explicitly notes that the evaporation
is still quite fast, and states that "Hence, the evaporation 
of the prussic acid [HCN] did not slow down considerably 
because of low temperatures".

Anyway, "revisionists" may try and prove their claims, by
standing in a relatively cold chamber and having Zyklon-B
thrown into it. Oddly enough, they haven't suggested doing
that.


-Danny Keren.



-- 
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.


From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Jul 11 15:38:03 PDT 1996
Article: 49725 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: BRADLEY SMITH'S WEBSITE SHUT DOWN
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <00002fc9+00008a90@msn.com> <31e24b59.4583106@news.pacificnet.net>  <31e3a58c.628506@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 16:44:02 GMT
Lines: 35

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

# The worm went out and you bit. By "impersonating professor" I
# mean that for months I referred to you as "professor" or "the
# professor", and suddenly, after my addressing you as that
# scores of times,  you informed me you weren't really a professor
# but some kind of engineer.

No. Learn to read. I said that I spent three years as a research
associate at Brown University, in the Division of Engineering, and
that now I teach at a different university.

It's a pity that you cannot understand the difference between 
someone who's a member of the division of engineering in a 
university, and an engineer. For instance, people who teach 
in electrical engineering departments in universities are 
professors, not engineers. Is this clear, or is it too hard 
for you to grasp? I suggest you be careful before making 
accusations you cannot support.

# I only think what you mean by putting all my experiences
# with your stuff ahead of your statement that you support
# free speech. Many people say something, then when you look at
# their whole, it implies something else. Look, you have called
# me a Nazi again.

There is no contradiction between saying that "revisionists" are
Nazis, and between saying that they are entitled to voice their
opinions. 


-Danny Keren.





From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Jul 11 17:28:26 PDT 1996
Article: 79429 of soc.culture.german
Newsgroups: talk.politics.european-union,soc.culture.nordic,soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.intersurf.net!hunter.premier.net!insync!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: German hegemony over Europe through the European Union
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4i63p3$l5@axl02it.ntc.nokia.com>  <4rvtse$lv4@raffles.technet.sg> 
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 19:28:28 GMT
Lines: 26
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca talk.politics.european-union:4783 soc.culture.nordic:46311 soc.culture.german:79429

[Followup = alt.revisionism]

olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg) writes:

# The conditions grew steadily worse in the concentrationcamps
# as well as in the rest of Germany toward the end of the war. 

This is utter rubbish. There was no food lacking for the 
SS staff in the camps. One of the more "memorable" photos
taken after the liberation of Belsen, shown the SS-women, who
were forced to bury the tens-of-thousands of emaciated 
corpses of the inmates. Incredibly enough, all the SS-women
are quite fat.

Moreover, there was a tremendous death rate in these
"work camps" long before the end of the war; a letter from
the SS Economic Division mentions that, during the second
half of 1942, 80,000 out of 130,000 inmates who were sent
to various camps died; and these were not the massive
death camps, but so-called "concentration camps".


-Danny Keren.





From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Jul 11 17:39:34 PDT 1996
Article: 75770 of talk.politics.mideast
Newsgroups: soc.culture.israel,talk.politics.mideast
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!solaris.cc.vt.edu!homer.alpha.net!daily-planet.execpc.com!news.sol.net!spool.mu.edu!sgigate.sgi.com!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!uunet!inXS.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: SHEKETZ MESHUKATZ!
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <31e4e531.5263832@news.netvision.net.il>
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 20:13:42 GMT
Lines: 21
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.israel:38292 talk.politics.mideast:75770

In article <31e4e531.5263832@news.netvision.net.il>,
Assaf Amit  wrote:

[...]

Ah, the good old days...

Yossi Sharid called Eliezer Schostak "EFES MEOOPAS", and Schostak
responded "SHEKETZ MESHUKATZ". As I recall, Schostak was then
Minister of Health ("SHAR HA'BRIUT").

I can't recall when exactly this took place. My guess - 1985
or so. Neither can I recall exactly why; I think Schostak
severly criticized Labor's handling of the Health Ministry.

Now, another riddle: Who said to who "MA ATA ASHITA BESHVIL
MEDINA! IDIOIT!" (well, that's an easy one :-) ).


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Jul 11 17:47:38 PDT 1996
Article: 49734 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Nazi Plunder Of the Victims, IV
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 22:46:27 GMT
Lines: 47


Report by SS-Obergruppenfuehrer Pohl to Himmler's office, February
6 1943, listing items plundered from Jewish victims and delivered
to various Nazi organizations
[Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military Tribunals - 
Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1949-1953, Vol. V, p. 699-703]
-----------------------------------------------------------------
 
1. Reich ministry of economics
 
Men's old clothing without underwear       97,000 sets
Women's old clothing without underwear     76,000 sets
women's silk underwear                     89,000 sets
                                         Total 34 cars
Rags -           400 cars, 2,700,000 Kg
Bed feathers -   130 cars, 270,000 Kg
Women's hair -   1 car, 3,000 Kg
Scrap material - 5 cars, 19,000 Kg
 
2. Office for Germanization
 
Men's clothing:
 
Pants -        62,000
Shirts -       132,000
 .
 .
Shoes -        31,000 pairs
 
Women's clothing:
 
Coats -        155,000
Dresses -      119,000
 .
 .
Panties -      60,000
Brassiers -    25,000
Underwear -    22,000
Kerchiefs -    85,000
Shoes -        111,000
 .
 .
                                               211 cars
[Many more organizations and items cited]
 
                                    Grand Total 825 cars
 


From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Jul 11 17:47:39 PDT 1996
Article: 49735 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Nazi Plunder Of the Victims, III
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 22:45:59 GMT
Lines: 21


Letter from SS-Gruppenfuehrer Katzmann to SS-Obergruppenfuehrer Kruger,
regarding the "solution of the Jewish problem in Galicia", and giving
a breakdown of property taken from the Jews, June 30, 1943
[Documents on the Holocaust - Edited by Y. Arad, Y. Gutman, A. Margaliot,
NY, Ktav Pub. House in Association with Yad-Vashem, 1981, p. 335-341]
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Valuables were secured and handed over to the special staff 
"Reinhard". Apart from furniture and large quantities of textile,
etc., the following were confiscated and delivered to special staff
"Reinhard":
 
As of June 30, 1943:
 .
 .
20.952 Kg - wedding rings - gold
22.740 Kg - pearls
11.730 Kg - gold teeth
 .
 .



From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Jul 11 19:33:51 PDT 1996
Article: 49758 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!uniserve!news.sol.net!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.fibr.net!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!inXS.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: [Fwd: NO nerve gas?]
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <31DCE1FC.1AAA@buffnet.net> <4rt1ug$51g@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>  <4rvr9m$djm@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 17:50:50 GMT
Lines: 22

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

## No, the article specifically noted that, even at below zero
## temperatures, there was no residue of HCN after "an hour, or
## at most two".

# Not only was it your post, but you are lying about it.

No, this is what the article says, and this is what I posted.
The article is on the web for you to take a look at it.


-Danny Keren.



-- 
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.


From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Jul 11 19:33:53 PDT 1996
Article: 49760 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!insync!uunet!inXS.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: He's a Crazed Liar Indeed (Re: Msgic ERCO)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4rvvuk$kka@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 20:29:06 GMT
Lines: 25

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes:

# And in all of that, the holohuggers can NOT produce one 
# document as to what ERCO is or what its color might be.

You're lying again, as such documents were produced, including
the book by Dr. Gerhard Peters, the general manager of Degesch,
which was a major manufacturer of Zyklon-B before and during 
the war. His book even has a photograph of the Erco pellets.

I even took the trouble of scanning the relevant pages
and posting them to the Nizkor site. And I told you were
these scans are. And, as I recall, you looked at them.

Giwer: You're a crazed, senile liar. Sorry about that, but 
you're really a very poor and very pathetic human being. 

I feel so sorry for you I even took out the old .sig this
time. See what a nice guy I really am?


-Danny Keren.





From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Jul 12 07:00:16 PDT 1996
Article: 49767 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uunet!inXS.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Nazi Plunder Of the Victims, II
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 22:45:31 GMT
Lines: 16

Letter from prison warden Guenther to the general commissar of white
Ruthenia, Minsk, 31 May 1943
[Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression - Washington, U.S Govt. Print. 
Off., 1946, Vol. VIII, p. 208]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Since that time all German and Russian Jews who were turned to us,
had their golden bridgework, crowns and fillings pulled or broken
out. This happens 1 to 2 hours before the respective action.
 
Since April 13 1943, 516 German and Russian Jews have been finished
off. On the basis of a definitive investigation, gold was taken
only in two actions, on 14 April 1943 from 172, and on 27 April
1943 from 164 Jews. About 50% of the Jews had gold teeth, bridgework
or fillings. Hauptscharfuehrer Ruebe of the security police was always 
personally present and he took the gold along too.
 


From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Jul 12 07:00:17 PDT 1996
Article: 49768 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uunet!inXS.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Nazi Plunder Of the Victims, V
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 22:46:54 GMT
Lines: 79

Report by SS-Grupenfuehrer Globocnik listing items plundered
>from  the Jewish victims of "Operation Reinhard" and delivered to
various Nazi organizations. Attached is a detailed list, prepared
by SS-Sturmbannfuehrer Wippern on February 27, 1943.
[Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military Tribunals - 
Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1949-1953, Vol. V, p. 704-709]
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Valuation of Jewish belongings delivered up to 3 February 1943
 
1. cash -                     RM 15,931,722.01
   Delivery SS Econ. Krakow - RM 31,500,000.00
   SS WVHA Berlin -           RM  5,581,411.50
                              ----------------
                              RM 53,013,133.51
 
[At that time, 2.5 RM were equal to 1 US Dollar].
 
2. Foreign currency, notes
   
   [Long list]             total RM 1,452,904.65
 .
 .
 .
 
5. Other Valuables
 .
 .
2,894  gold gentlemen's pocket watches
 .
 .
7,313  gold ladies' wrist watches
 .
 .
13,455 gentlemen's pocket watches
 .
 .
22,324 spectacles
 .
 .
7,000  fountain pens
 .
 .
51,370 watches to be repaired
 .
 .
230    clinical thermometers
 
[many items deleted]

 
                         Total  RM 26,089,800.00
 
6. Textiles
 
462 boxcars rags
253 boxcars feathers for bedding
317 boxcars clothes and linen
 
                         Total  RM 13,294,400.00
 
               Summary
 
1. Delivered cash and cash on hand         RM  53,013,133.51
2. Foreign currency, notes                 RM   1,452,904.65
3. Foreign currency, minted gold           RM     843,802.75
4. Precious metals                         RM   5,353,943.00
5. Other items                             RM  26,089,800.00
6. Textiles                                RM  13,294,400.00
 
Total                                      RM 100,047,983.91
 
 
[In April 8, 1945, an immense amount of SS loot was discovered hidden in
 a salt mine in Merkers, Germany. Among other items, it contained 
 369.6. lbs of rings and 385 lbs of gold and silver teeth feeling. This
 is reported in Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military 
 Tribunals - Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1949-1953, Vol. XIII, 
 p. 376].
 


From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Jul 12 07:00:17 PDT 1996
Article: 49814 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Nazi Plunder Of the Victims, I
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 22:45:04 GMT
Lines: 23

Letter from SS-Brigadefuehrer Frank to chief of administration of 
Auschwitz, concerning the utilization and distribution of "evacuated" 
Jews, 26 September 1942
[Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military Tribunals - 
Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1949-1953, Vol. XIII, p. 256-258]
---------------------------------------------------------------------
e) Women's clothing and women underwear including footwear, children's
clothing and children's underwear including footwear have to be handed 
over to the Volksdeutsche Mittelstelle against payment...
 
f) Featherbeads, quilts, woolen blankets, cloth for suits, shawls,
umbrellas, walking sticks, thermos flasks, earflaps, baby carriages,
combs, handbags, leather belts, shopping baskets, tobacco pipes,
sun glasses, mirrors, table knives, forks and spoons, knapsacks, and
suitcases made from leather or artificial material are to be delivered
to the Volksdeutsche Mittelstelle. The question of payment will be
decided later...
 
h) Spectacles and eyeglasses of every kind are to be handed in to
the medical office for utilization. (Spectacles with golden frames
have to be handed in without glasses together with the rare metals).
 
 


From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Jul 12 07:00:18 PDT 1996
Article: 49829 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!news.math.psu.edu!news.cac.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!nntp.coast.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!cdc2.cdc.net!news.texas.net!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Genocide
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4rvkro$9gj@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 18:47:19 GMT
Lines: 36

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes:

# It is amusing to note that so few have read their bibles to
# realize that the Israelites have the first written record of 
# genocide in human history.  

So, now you're saying that documents do count as evidence?

I can't understand these nazi-boys.

They reject each and every documentary evidence to the
Holocaust, saying that documents don't count, as they can
be forgeries, and they want the "physical evidence".

And then, one of them suddenly says that the Bible does,
indeed, count as documentary evidence! We don't even know
who wrote it, but they consider it "evidence"!

Does this mean Giwer accepts, say, the stories of the parting
of the Red Sea, etc, as well?

What gives here? Surely, even the dumbest nazi-boy would realize
the obvious double standard here.

Giwer, get a grip! 


-Danny Keren.



-- 
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.


From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Jul 12 07:00:19 PDT 1996
Article: 49833 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!uniserve!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!inXS.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: AN ADMISSION OF PERFIDIOUS GUILT
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4rc02l$kj9@tor-nn1-hb0.netcom.ca> <4rt1tg$51g@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>  <4rvhm6$qef@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 17:47:47 GMT
Lines: 60

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)

## Such physical evidence exists for the Holocaust as well.
## But you must know that.

# You know it does not.  
#
# There is not one picture of anyone on the roof of any building 
# much less pouring in anything.  But you know that. 

There is at least one photograph taken during a gassing action,
which was verified by the people who participated in this gassing.
But this is hardly the point; the point is that you seem to be
saying that the only proof you can offer to Dresden's bombing
are the photographs of it.

Before we continue, let us clarify this. "Revisionists" have, again
and again, stated that documents and photographs don't count, as
they can be forgeries, and that they demand "physical evidence".
If this opinion holds no longer, the whole stupid game you're
playing has changed.

# There is not one picture of any result from any "gas chamber" 
# when opened but you know that.

Not accurate - there's a photograph showing the corpses 
outside of the gas chamber, in front of the smoking "burning
ditch" in Birkenau. BTW, what would the equivalent picture be
in the case of Dresden?

# There is sworn testimony of flesh and clothing forming 
# gelatinous masses after exposure to HCN but you know that.  

I know that you're lying through your teeth, as the testimony
says that this happened because the corpses of the gassed
people (in the first gassing, in Block 11), were left there
for a few days, which resulted in them starting to decompose.
The testimony does not say that this happened because of the
HCN. But you're a pathological liar; you know that. We know
that.

# Your fucking mass gassing is a sham and you DO know that.  

Sorry, but all I know is that you're a first-class intellectual
zero, who is frustrated because of his failures in life, and
who spreads lies and Nazi propaganda. You have not provided any
evidence and any arguments as to the credibility of the 
history of the Holocaust. 


-Danny Keren.



-- 
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.


From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Jul 12 07:44:59 PDT 1996
Article: 61753 of soc.culture.jewish
Newsgroups: soc.culture.israel,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.palestine,talk.politics.mideast
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!imci3!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: PREMATURE BURIAL
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4rrlan$7al$1@mhadf.production.compuserve.com> <31E246EA.38E2@cs.anu.edu.au> <4s1m4m$igd@zot.io.org>
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 20:05:25 GMT
Lines: 13
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.israel:38370 soc.culture.jewish:61753 soc.culture.palestine:17731 talk.politics.mideast:75799

In article <4s1m4m$igd@zot.io.org>, ken  wrote:

# Let me start off by telling people who don't know Mckay that he is 
# a liar, charlatan and lover of half-truths. 

Let me respond by telling people who don't know that Prof. McKay 
is probably the most intelligent and accurate poster on this
newsgroup, and has been so for a few years.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Jul 12 08:22:12 PDT 1996
Article: 75799 of talk.politics.mideast
Newsgroups: soc.culture.israel,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.palestine,talk.politics.mideast
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!imci3!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: PREMATURE BURIAL
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4rrlan$7al$1@mhadf.production.compuserve.com> <31E246EA.38E2@cs.anu.edu.au> <4s1m4m$igd@zot.io.org>
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 20:05:25 GMT
Lines: 13
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.israel:38370 soc.culture.jewish:61753 soc.culture.palestine:17731 talk.politics.mideast:75799

In article <4s1m4m$igd@zot.io.org>, ken  wrote:

# Let me start off by telling people who don't know Mckay that he is 
# a liar, charlatan and lover of half-truths. 

Let me respond by telling people who don't know that Prof. McKay 
is probably the most intelligent and accurate poster on this
newsgroup, and has been so for a few years.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Jul 12 12:40:28 PDT 1996
Article: 49898 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-9.sprintlink.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!sgigate.sgi.com!nntp.coast.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!inXS.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: AN ADMISSION OF PERFIDIOUS GUILT
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4rc02l$kj9@tor-nn1-hb0.netcom.ca> <4rvhm6$qef@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>  <4s440a$so8@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 16:47:39 GMT
Lines: 66

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# If there is that one picture the holohuggers are doing a
# great job of keeping it a secret.  Where is it hidden?  

The source is in Germany; it was taken during a gassing
in Mogilev, supervised by Nebe and Dr. Widmann. Nebe was
executed by the Nazis (he was suspected of taking part in
the plot to kill Hitler). Dr. Widmann and other people
who participated in the gassing survived the war and
were tried or appeared as witnesses in a trial held by
the Germans.

I have only a rather poor xerox copy of the photo (there
are actually a few photos, as a movie was taken during
the gassing - this is mentioned in Reitlinger's book). I
hope to obtain better quality photos and/or a copy of
the film itself.

# But in fact the subject is that I can provide physical
# EVIDENCE of the Dresden bombing that does not require one
# bit of eyewitness testimony.

Yawn. We've been through this. This is the type of evidence
commonly rejected by "revisionists" when presented as
evidence to the Holocaust (photos and documents). 

# There a pictures of bodies outside a morgue?

This is exactly the point, isn't it?

There's a picture of a city burning? Maybe it just caught
fire? What about that? Cities do catch fire and burn, we
know that, right?

You see how the game goes? You see how easy it is to be a 
"revisionist scholar"?

# But, as you know, that is not a description of decomposing 
# bodies at any stage and nothing but a bit a bloating occurs 
# in two days.
 
Excerpts from the testimony of Dr. Czeslaw Glowakci:

 "The victims were kept in the bunker for about two days, so the 
bodies were already in a state of decomposition. The skin of 
the dead stuck to our hands".

You're claiming this is impossible? Have you also handled
corpses, in addition to being a mathematician, historian,
engineer, whatever?

# And again, we are only talking about gassing at this point.  
# It is rather clear save to the diehard holohuggers the gassing 
# stories are nonsense.

It's also clear that, by the same logic, the Dresden stories
and the WW2 stories are nonsense. 

Who are the "diehard holohuggers", BTW? How many "diehard 
holohuggers" do you believe are in the US, for instance?


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Jul 13 11:00:50 PDT 1996
Article: 49953 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Genocide
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4rvkro$9gj@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> <31e3b336.4126954@news.pacificnet.net> <31e3b38b.4211868@news.pacificnet.net> <4s2968$m02@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 00:37:44 GMT
Lines: 22

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# That was Yahweh God, one of their seven gods, one for each 
# day of their week.  

Pity; if it was six gods, he could claim that's the
explanation for the Nizkor six, not to mention the
six million.

# That was the horned god, the blood thirsty one.  

Gewalt! He had horns, too?

# No wonder his followers won and wiped out most of the 
# records of the others.  

Where is the documentary and physical evidence for this?


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Jul 13 16:31:31 PDT 1996
Article: 50064 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!inter2.interstice.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4i63p3$l5@axl02it.ntc.nokia.com>   <4s4t66$h6e@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 16:55:28 GMT
Lines: 25

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# As you know, non-scientist, the mentions of the time 
# support 6-12 hour outgassing as you have posted.  

As you know, non-employed, the German source explicitly
says that after an hour, or at most two, there was no
detectable residue of HCN in the Zyklon carrier. And
this, at a very low temperature.

So, you erred in your estimation of the outgassing
time, by a factor of 16. See why you can't get a job?
Who would hire a klutz like you?

There is no debate here. The text is there, for all to
see, on the web.

# But you know that.  

To quote Peggy Bundy, "my God, you *are* an idiot". 


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Jul 13 16:31:32 PDT 1996
Article: 50066 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!portc01.blue.aol.com!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp.coast.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!inXS.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Why don't historians deny the Holocaust? (Was Re: Revisionism Defined)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4s2fqq$agu@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> <4s3i74$jk@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 17:22:54 GMT
Lines: 19

dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) writes:

# A great problem with the orthodox gas chamber story and
# alleged history is that is has not been exposed to the rigors
# of academic examination and review.

This is a totally ridiculous claim. Prove it, if you can.

There have been a rather large number of historians who
studied the Holocaust. You're just throwing words around,
which have no meaning and no relation whatsoever to the
truth. So, do not whine when people refer to "revisionists"
as Nazi propagandists. When you lie, and refuse to back your
lies, people will call you that. It's really simple.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Jul 13 18:18:23 PDT 1996
Article: 50085 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!inter2.interstice.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Genocide
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4rvkro$9gj@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> <4s2968$m02@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com>  <4s52mt$qpu@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 17:04:32 GMT
Lines: 25

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# Get with the program, boy.  His altars have been found,
# many of them. They are adorned with horns.

Where? What? When? Maybe these were just oddly shaped
tables? Remember the gas chamber - morgue analogy? Can you 
PROVE these were altars?

# As I have been told, do your own research.  You might as
# Alec where to start.  

No go. You're claiming a genocide by the early Israelites
took place? You have to prove this, according to *your*
standards of proof, that *you* demand for the Holocaust.

Otherwise, it will be clear you're a bloody coward and that
you apply a double standard when judging historical events.

You're unemployed. You got lots of time. Get a move-on, 
chump, and show us the PHYSICAL EVIDENCE.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Jul 13 18:18:25 PDT 1996
Article: 50086 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!inter2.interstice.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Genocide
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4rvkro$9gj@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>  <4s4jie$pon@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 17:07:14 GMT
Lines: 15

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# I said they were the first written records as you can plainly
# read.  It is still up in the air as to what if anything in those 
# writing actually occurred.  

I take it, then, that you *do not* claim that the early
Israelites, or whoever, committed "genocide"?

Haven't you repeatedly stated that they did? And now you're
saying that you don't know? What is this?


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Jul 14 10:24:51 PDT 1996
Article: 79541 of soc.culture.german
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.wildstar.net!imci5!pull-feed.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.coast.net!news.kei.com!news.texas.net!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: GERMAN HISTORY
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4s1lec$118o@usenetz1.news.prodigy.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 19:35:56 GMT
Lines: 12

Maria Egorov  wrote:
>Can someone comment about the following statement:

# Tacitus described different Germanic tribes like Fenni who are 
# characterised as "astonishingly WILD AND HORRIBLY POOR. THEY EAT 
# GRASS,DRESS IN SKINS,AND SLEEP ON THE GROUND"

Yet, they make BMW's now! So what gives? :-) 


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Jul 14 10:24:52 PDT 1996
Article: 79548 of soc.culture.german
Newsgroups: talk.politics.european-union,soc.culture.nordic,soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: German hegemony over Europe through the European Union
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4i63p3$l5@axl02it.ntc.nokia.com>   
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 23:04:01 GMT
Lines: 26
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca talk.politics.european-union:4834 soc.culture.nordic:46331 soc.culture.german:79548

[Followup = alt.revisionism]

Ole Kreiberg  wrote:

[About Fred Leuchter]

# But he was still able to make a living out of manufacturing execution
# equipment. And you claim that he never had made any gaschambers.

This is tiring.

If you claim he built a gas chamber, tell us where it is.

Is this too hard for you to undertstand?

You claim he built a gas chamber for execution.

This gas chamber must have been built somewhere.

Tell us where.

Very simple. What do you fail to understand about my request?


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Jul 14 10:24:53 PDT 1996
Article: 79549 of soc.culture.german
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.wildstar.net!serv.hinet.net!news.uoregon.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.fibr.net!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: LICK MY CLIT
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <31E46D3A.35EA@gnn.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 19:40:28 GMT
Lines: 9

Cripes! I've heard of aggressive women, but isn't this 
pushing it a bit too far? This one doesn't even bother
to invite a guy to a movie before!  :-)


-Danny Keren.





From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Jul 14 10:24:54 PDT 1996
Article: 79550 of soc.culture.german
Newsgroups: talk.politics.european-union,soc.culture.nordic,soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.wildstar.net!serv.hinet.net!news.uoregon.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.fibr.net!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: German hegemony over Europe through the European Union
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4i63p3$l5@axl02it.ntc.nokia.com>   
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 19:21:20 GMT
Lines: 19
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca talk.politics.european-union:4835 soc.culture.nordic:46332 soc.culture.german:79550

Kreiberg, I repeat my question:

You claimed that Leuchter built a gas chamber for executing
people for US prisons. 

Which gas chamber is this? Where?

The letter from the warden probably proves what a US Court
has already confirmed: Leuchter is a liar and a charlatan,
who lied about his credentials. He may have fooled the
warden as well, by presenting him with these false
credentials.

But, again: *Where* is this gas chamber you claim he built?


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Jul 14 10:24:55 PDT 1996
Article: 79626 of soc.culture.german
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!portc01.blue.aol.com!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp.coast.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: 66questions.html
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <95dccfd3&199607120952.EAA12434@chicagokent.kentlaw.edu>
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 17:49:45 GMT
Lines: 10

Yawn. There go the nazi-boys again.

There's a reply to these 66 Q&A on the Nizkor web site,
which is also mirrored in Germany. I'm sending a copy to
Mr. Jamie McCarthy; Jamie, can you please post the location
of the response to this Nazi propaganda?


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Jul 15 13:33:07 PDT 1996
Article: 50428 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!world1.bawave.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: BRADLEY SMITH'S WEBSITE SHUT DOWN
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <00002fc9+00008a90@msn.com>  <31e7968c.213768@news.pacificnet.net> <4s9lua$20u@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 17:14:24 GMT
Lines: 24

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# What is even more interesting is claiming the Engineering
# Department and not showing the slightest comprehension of 
# engineering.  

As noted, I spent 3 years at the Division of Engineering,
Brown University, as a research associate.

Currently, I teach at a different university, in the
department of computer science.

Currently, I am also a consultant to Hewlett-Packard.

Are you, and/or Tom Moran, suggesting that I'm lying
about my professional record? Yes or no?

As to "comprehension of engineering": I will be judged by
my colleagues, not by a senile loser who can't even find a 
bloody job.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Jul 15 13:33:07 PDT 1996
Article: 50447 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,alt.revisionism,talk.politics.european-union
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4i63p3$l5@axl02it.ntc.nokia.com> <4s5qon$pgc@hades.rz.uni-sb.de> <2bwvnOev1yrK065yn@login.dknet.dk>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 18:16:00 GMT
Lines: 37
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.german:79732 alt.revisionism:50447 talk.politics.european-union:4904

[Followup = alt.revisionism]

olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg) writes:

# Hm. I should like to hear your professor's commentary on 
# the following excerpt from the Lueftl report:

You really can do nothing but repost this load of crap, right?

# What is the evidence against such a procedure? Zyklon B!
#   
# Holocaust writers have overlooked the fact that, during the
# ventilation process, Zyklon B would still have retained 92 
# percent of its hydrocyanic acid content, and would thus 
# continue merrily on its way, releasing hydrocyanic acid gas. 
# At 25 degrees Celsius, it would continue to do so for fully 
# 15 1/2 hours, and even longer yet at lower temperatures.

An outright lie; the evaporation is much faster. The paper
by Peters and Rasch explicitly states that, even at far
lower temperatures, there was no detectable residue of
HCN in the Zyklon-B after an "hour, or at most two".

Moreover, in Kremas II and III, the Zyklon was taken out from 
the chambers (by the same device which was used to insert it), 
before the doors were opened. So, there was no problem of
continued evaporation of HCN.

Moreover, in other gas chambers, gas masks were used by
the "sonderkommando", who had to take the corpses out.

I guess you'll respond by reposting this whole load of
garbage once again, won't you?


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Jul 15 19:31:55 PDT 1996
Article: 50489 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!scramble.lm.com!news.math.psu.edu!news.ems.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!inXS.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: freedom of speech
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4sabnf$h5h@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 18:39:18 GMT
Lines: 23

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# There is no freedom when the people do not believe in it.

Get a job. It will be good for you, and make you less hostile
to the world.

# Here is the problem, unless everyone supports this freedom 
# it will be lost.  That anyone excuses censorship of ideas is 
# a person who does not belong on the internet.

Get a job. It will be good for you, and make you less hostile
to the world.

# Fuck them and the keyboard they rode in on.

Get a job. It will be good for you, and make you less hostile
to the world.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Jul 15 19:31:56 PDT 1996
Article: 50491 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!uniserve!news.sol.net!newspump.sol.net!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Nizkor Roller Coaster, Wacky - Corrupt
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <31e90cca.8929322@news.pacificnet.net> <31e915cc.11235458@news.pacificnet.net> <4sd0sj$mm1@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 19:40:00 GMT
Lines: 17

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
# tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

## Nizkor list a line of pages from this Peters book, 
## totaling maybe 15 pages. 

8 pages actually, including the cover and the table
of content.

# Not to mention that 15 pages goes far beyond fair use ... 

You pathetic little zero. This is the best you can do?
How about a comment on the scientific content?


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Jul 15 19:31:56 PDT 1996
Article: 50495 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!newspump.sol.net!news.mindspring.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Genocide
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4rvkro$9gj@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> <4s52mt$qpu@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>  <4s7hpg$nqc@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 16:54:14 GMT
Lines: 17

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

[Re physical evidence of early Israelite culture]

# The physical evidence is so well known it has been
# incorporated into a TV series.  

Yep folks, you heard it here.

"A TV series is proof", so says the Giwer.

Where is the evidence?


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Jul 15 19:31:57 PDT 1996
Article: 50505 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!nic.ott.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!news.akorn.net!news.his.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4i63p3$l5@axl02it.ntc.nokia.com>   <4s7mbr$erk@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 17:49:56 GMT
Lines: 28

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# You are making it up, but you know that.  There has been 
# not one post documenting what ERCO is much less that it 
# is silica gel.  That is still a fabrication of you 
# holohuggers.  

I am seriously starting to wonder whether Giwer is not 
really an "anti-revisionist" who's trying to make 
"revisionists" look as bad as possible.

At least two documents - one a book by Dr. Gerhard Peters,
general manager of Degesch (major manufacturer of Zyklon-B
before and during the war), mention the Erco carrier.

I even scanned and posted the relevant material from his
book; it even has a photo of the Erco carrier.

Yet Giwer goes on and on, like a lame-brained parrot, 
with this "you presented no document about Erco" stuff.

Surely, such idiotic behavior is only damaging "revisionism",
which is hardly doing that great anyway.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Jul 15 19:31:58 PDT 1996
Article: 50507 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!news.ysu.edu!news.cps.udayton.edu!news.conterra.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: "Any day now"?
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <31e6497a.1895296@news.pacificnet.net> <31e65fca.7607002@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 16:35:33 GMT
Lines: 18

It is true that we have not yet found the original Zyklon-B
patent. However, other technical information, including a book
and article coauthored by Dr. Gerhard Peters, were posted.

These prove that the "revisionists" have been, all along,
lying through their teeth with regard to the evaporation
rate of the HCN from Zyklon. The rate is much faster than
what you, Greg "Hitler was a great man" Raven, and Giwer,
have all given.

The material was even posted on the web.

But you must have realized this already.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Jul 15 20:00:30 PDT 1996
Article: 77193 of control
Control: cancel 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.israel,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.palestine,talk.politics.mideast
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!uniserve!oronet!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!dsinc!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news.alt.net!news1.alt.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!inXS.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: cancel
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 19:43:27 GMT
Lines: 1

 was cancelled from within trn.


From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Jul 15 21:10:06 PDT 1996
Article: 50538 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.cloud9.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!world1.bawave.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The true revisionist theme
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4r21k7$c5a@panix2.panix.com> <836784995snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>  <837210647snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 16:46:27 GMT
Lines: 49

Alexander Baron  writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com "Daniel Keren" writes:

## Why, in all these trials - and there were many of 
## them - did not *one* SS-men deny the gassings?

# Well, Baer denied the gassings, but on the other hand he 
# died in custody. 

Still no citation to him denying the gassings?

# Perhaps the others felt it was safer not to deny them?

Rubbish, plain and simple.

All these people, in all these many trials, and not *one*
of them denying the gassings?

I mean, don't you find it a little odd that *all* of them
(who were there) say the opposite of what you crackpots
(who were never there) say?

All these people, accused of this terrible crime, which you
claim never took place, and not *one* of them says it?

Insanity.

# On the other hand, they all denied personal involvement. 

This is a lie, of course. Many admitted to their personal
involvement, although they said - and it's true - that
they were under orders.

# Read Butz's comments on this, especially Kramer's story.

Joseph Kramer? He admitted to personally gassing people
in Naztweiler. Maybe it's a typo and you mean Dr. Kremer?

# Have I repeated myself? Ah, so what did Baer say? They
# happened elsewhere.

So, he did not deny the gassings after all, is that what
you're saying? He said they took place in Auschwitz II
(Birkenau) which is true; during the period he ran Auschwitz I,
there were no gassings there.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Jul 15 21:10:07 PDT 1996
Article: 50541 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.reed.edu!camelot.ccs.neu.edu!nntp.neu.edu!grapevine.lcs.mit.edu!bone.think.com!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!spool.mu.edu!news.nd.edu!chi-news.cic.net!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!news.iag.net!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!nntp.coast.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-22.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-12.sprintlink.net!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: No gas chamber in the old reich, sorry!
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4quqbi$dv6@Vir.com>  <31E26F1B.5712@rio.com> <837211161snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 16:22:59 GMT
Lines: 17

Alexander Baron  writes:

# No Chuck, the "gas chamber" you were shown was a delousing 
# chamber.

There was a homicidal gas chamber in Dachau, period. The letter
sent by Dr. Rascher to Himmler mentions that it is being built,
and suggests to use it to test "combat gases" on humans. A jpeg
file of this letter is on the web, BTW,

You can keep repeating your rubbish for 50 more years. It
won't change the facts, though.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Jul 15 23:48:03 PDT 1996
Article: 50570 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!uniserve!news.sol.net!news.inc.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-12.sprintlink.net!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!inXS.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4i63p3$l5@axl02it.ntc.nokia.com> <4s4t66$h6e@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>  <4s7lr8$m0v@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 16:50:54 GMT
Lines: 32

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# You may post that again if you wish. 



In all cases, the most substantial part of the development of the
gas had taken place/been effected after one or at most two hours.
(A control of the remainders [Rueckstaende] after these corresponding 
times proved that the gas had evaporated from them without any residues 
[deren restlose Entgasung].) Hence, the evaporation of the prussic 
acid/HCN did not slow down considerably because of low temperatures. 



# Do you see why you are a) stuck in a university 

But I have a job, at least.

# and b) in a world which considered Baysian statistics a 
# running joke?  

Please elaborate:

1) What do you think "Baysian statistics" is?

2) What is your evidence that the world considers it a
   "running joke"?


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Jul 15 23:48:05 PDT 1996
Article: 50572 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!uniserve!news.sol.net!news.inc.net!newspump.sol.net!news.mindspring.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: BRADLEY SMITH'S WEBSITE SHUT DOWN
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <00002fc9+00008a90@msn.com> <31e3a58c.628506@news.pacificnet.net>  <31e7968c.213768@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 16:58:26 GMT
Lines: 12

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

# Where did you say that, former impersonating professor?

I said it in an earlier post. 

Your continuing use of "former impersonating professor"
may well be libel. Take note of that.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Jul 16 02:18:44 PDT 1996
Article: 50577 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!scramble.lm.com!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: German hegemony over Europe through the European Union
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4i63p3$l5@axl02it.ntc.nokia.com>   
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 17:03:34 GMT
Lines: 25

olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg) writes:
# In article , Daniel Keren wrote:

[About Fred Leuchter]

## If you claim he built a gas chamber, tell us where it is.

# Why don't you ask him yourself? 

You made the claim, you supply the proof. 

Tell us where this gas chamber is.

I have no idea how to contact the old nut. You do it.

# it would be likely that he has constructed or at least 
# maintained gaschambers too.

"it would be likely", in the pig's arse. Tell us where this
gas chamber is.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Jul 16 02:18:44 PDT 1996
Article: 50614 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: class action lawsuit
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4s7u12$31t@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com> <13JUL199608210750@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> <4s952b$2s0@Networking.Stanford.EDU> <13JUL199615193896@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 18:03:16 GMT
Lines: 9

Why not put all this effort into finding a job?

There must be some Nazi out there who needs a
bathroom attendant. Go for it, oh 163-IQ man.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Jul 16 08:46:31 PDT 1996
Article: 50678 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.fan.ernst-zundel,alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!tezcat.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-12.sprintlink.net!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: 960712: Animal Farm Revisited
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <199607127203.ABA1823@infinity.c2.org> <4s63fr$56a@Networking.Stanford.EDU>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 17:39:20 GMT
Lines: 18
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.fan.ernst-zundel:1707 alt.revisionism:50678

rich@c2.org (Rich Graves) writes:

[About George Lincoln Rockwell]

# By "martyred" I assume you mean "Killed by another Nazi, 
# George Patler, outside a laundromat in Arlington on 
# August 25, 1967."

They always start by killing off each other. 

BTW, didn't Rockwell suggest - in a rather old Playboy
interview (circa 1965?) - that gas chambers be built in
the US for mass execution of Jews? Does anyone have that
interview? Also, was Rockwell a "Holocaust revisionist"?


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Jul 16 08:46:32 PDT 1996
Article: 50686 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: AN ADMISSION OF PERFIDIOUS GUILT
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <31E6690C.3F78@gryn.org> <4s726g$cqj@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 17:43:35 GMT
Lines: 13

ehrlich606@aol.com (Ehrlich606) writes:

# Sorry, this just doesn't work.  Where are the three million 
# who were gassed?  Completely disappeared.  

You're wrong right off the bat. There are numerous human
remains in Treblinka and other camps. You must know this, 
as in the past you responded to this point in another article.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Jul 16 10:52:03 PDT 1996
Article: 50714 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'Let Them Die, Why Should You Care?'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 21:43:33 GMT
Lines: 69

All excerpted from "The Belsen Trial":

Testimony of Mr. Harold Le Druillence from Jersey, former prisoner 
in Belsen, who was "employed" as corpse carrier there:

(p. 60-61)

We made our way along the central road towards the burial pit. Along
this road, stationed at intervals, were orderlies to see that the
flow of dead to the pits carried on smoothly; they were particulalry
numerous near the kitchen and the resevoir water. One of the most
cruel things in this particular work was the fact that we passed
this water regularly on every trip, and although we were dying
of thirst we were not allowed to touch it or get anywhere near.

[...]

I would like you to picture what this endless chain of dead going
to the pits must have looked like for about five days from sunrise
to sunset. How many were buried I have no idea. It must have been
vast numbers - certainly five figures. 

You didn't dare to fall out, but many collapsed on the way - just
lay dead by the roadside, or died. They in turn were lifted by a
team of four and taken to the pits. People died like flies on the
way to these pits. They did not have the necessary energy to drag
even those very light bodies. A man who faltered was usually hit
on the head.

(p. 62)

I saw plenty of shooting, usually for no reason at all. Sometimes
there was a hidden reason which we learned of only after many
dozen had been killed; for example, at the north entrance of
the mortuary yard many people had been killed before we realized
that the particular guard in charge of that gateway wanted to
see people go through at the double dragging the dead body
behind. He was a member of the Hungarian guard [1], but the
shooting was not confined to Hungarians; it was simply terrible,
hundreds were shot per day.

Testimony of SS-doctor, Obersturmfuherer Fritz Klein (p. 717):
------------------------------------------------------------
Whilst at Belsen I made several complaints to Kommandant Kramer
about the conditions there. I was told that I was only a doctor
and that it was nothing to do with me. Three days before the
British came, when I took over the camp, I had a talk with
Kramer about the conditions. I told Kramer that the corpses
should be removed, and that water should be supplied to 
prisoners as many were dying from thirst. Kramer said he did
not take orders from me.

Testimony of Herta Ehlert, a member of the SS unit at Belsen (p. 709):
---------------------------------------------------------------------
The conditions in Belsen were a shame and a disgrace. I consider
that the people chiefly responsible were Kramer the Kommandant,
Dr. Horstmann, Untersturmfuehrer Klipp, who was for some time
Kramer's second in command, and Haupsturfuehrer Vogler, who 
worked in Kramer's office and was responsible for food supply.
I say that Kramer was responsible for the conditions, among
other reasons, because on one occasion when I complained of the
increasing death rate to Kramer he replied, "let them die, why
should you care?".








From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Jul 16 14:01:33 PDT 1996
Article: 50762 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,alt.revisionism,talk.politics.european-union
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.cloud9.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Attention all Nazis (Re: Attention all Stasis!)
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4i63p3$l5@axl02it.ntc.nokia.com> <4s5qon$pgc@hades.rz.uni-sb.de> <2bwvnOev1yrK065yn@login.dknet.dk> 
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 18:26:26 GMT
Lines: 19
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.german:79850 alt.revisionism:50762 talk.politics.european-union:4934

[Followup = alt.revisionism]

olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg) writes:

# Earlier in this thread I posted an excerpt from Lueftl 
# report. I can inform you that Vienna's District Criminal 
# Court has dropped all charges against Lueftl in 1994. 

As I said, I do not support prosecuting Nazi propagandists 
for publishing this kind of stuff; my only interest is its
scientific value.

Lueftl's "report" has no value; it's a piece of rubbish,
plain and simple. This can be easily verified, by using
common sense and scientific data.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Jul 17 07:35:57 PDT 1996
Article: 50900 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4i63p3$l5@axl02it.ntc.nokia.com> <4s7lr8$m0v@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>  <4sflr3$8ph@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 16:26:16 GMT
Lines: 41

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:

## 1) What do you think "Bayesian statistics" is?

# We have been over this and had a modest discussion 
# on the subject. 

We have indeed said something. But do tell us again.

What do you think "Bayesian statistics" is? If you don't
know, just say so.

## 2) What is your evidence that the world considers it a
##    "running joke"?

# Assume in the next moment that Bayesian statistics apply.  
#
# I gave it a fair test in reliability and failure rate 
# predictions. Didn't work.  

Well, assuming that you know what it is, and assuming
it didn't work for you, so what? 

# Its loudest exponent in the Navy for that use dropped 
# it after the test. What is the problem?  

It is a major, very successful, tool for signal processing.

ARPA just decided to use the Bayesian approach for detecting
roads in aerial images. Just one recent application. It is
a major, very major, tool in many other applications. 

But, back to basics. Give us a short ('bout 5 sentences will
do) summary of what you think Bayesian analysis is.


-Danny Keren.





From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Jul 17 07:35:58 PDT 1996
Article: 50910 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: "Any day now"?
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <31e6497a.1895296@news.pacificnet.net> <31e65fca.7607002@news.pacificnet.net>  <4sfqln$aj4@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 16:31:11 GMT
Lines: 30

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# Unfortunately you have not done what you have claimed.  
# You have not addressed what the company says about the 
# pesticide form.  You have posted excepts that support 6-12 
# hours as the outgassing time.  

No, it explicitly gives a much shorter time. 



In all cases, the most substantial part of the development of the
gas had taken place/been effected after one or at most two hours.
(A control of the remainders [Rueckstaende] after these 
corresponding 
times proved that the gas had evaporated from them without any 
residues 
[deren restlose Entgasung].) Hence, the evaporation of the prussic 
acid/HCN did not slow down considerably because of low temperatures. 



Note that this is for below zero temperatures.

You gave 32 hours; so, you were off by a factor of 16.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Jul 17 07:35:59 PDT 1996
Article: 50949 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Mauving right along
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4rs72o$nhe@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> <31E4F970.6F9D@rio.com> <4se9dk$9ck@elaine24.Stanford.EDU> <4sfgno$q15@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 18:26:11 GMT
Lines: 16

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# But we know from the Degesh document on the formulation 
# used for fumigation that the carrier was wood pulp.  

But we know that they also manufactured Zyklon with an
Erco carrier, which has a bluish color.

# It is not relevent.

Get a job.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Jul 17 16:02:48 PDT 1996
Article: 51073 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: AN ADMISSION OF PERFIDIOUS GUILT
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <31E6690C.3F78@gryn.org> <4s726g$cqj@newsbf02.news.aol.com>  <4sfgir$q15@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 18:23:51 GMT
Lines: 21

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

## You're wrong right off the bat. There are numerous human
## remains in Treblinka and other camps. You must know this, 
## as in the past you responded to this point in another article.

# I have posted the minimum volume and weight of such remains 
# that ne ed to be found to support 3 million.  

The number of Treblinka victims is estimated at 700,000. Many
of them were children and infants.

One has to wonder why a "transit camp" has human remains and
ashes up to a depth of 7.5 meters, over a large area.


-Danny Keren.





From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Jul 17 19:34:34 PDT 1996
Article: 51076 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: AN ADMISSION OF PERFIDIOUS GUILT
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4rc02l$kj9@tor-nn1-hb0.netcom.ca> <4rknkp$6a8@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com>  <4rt1tg$51g@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 18:15:02 GMT
Lines: 19

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes:

# I have pointed to the available physical evidence that
# does not need one word of testimony to support the event.  

Such physical evidence exists for the Holocaust as well.
But you must know that.

# You are attempting to SUBSTITUTE Belzec for Belsen, Belsen
# being what has been under discussion.  

No. I suspect that the original source did refer to Belzec,
and that either you or whoever you took this from erred and
wrote "Belsen" instead. Perhaps someone can check this out
in the "Blue Series".


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Jul 17 19:34:36 PDT 1996
Article: 51088 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: SS-Oberscharfuehrer Bolender Testifies About Sobibor
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 21:55:45 GMT
Lines: 18

Testimony of SS-Oberscharfuehrer Kurt Bolender, In the 
Belzec-Oberhauser trial:
[Quoted in "BELZEC, SOBIBOR, TREBLINKA - the Operation Reinhard 
Death Camps", Indiana University Press - Yitzhak Arad, 1987, p. 76]. 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Before the Jews undressed, Oberscharfuehrer Michel made a speech
to them. On these occasions, he used to wear a white coat to
give the impression that he was a physician. Michel announced to
the Jews that they would be sent to work, but before this they
would have to take baths and undergo disinfection so as to
prevent the spread of diseases... After undressing, the Jews
were taken through the so-called Schlauch. They were led to the
gas chambers not by the Germans but by the Ukrainians...After
the Jews entered the gas chambers, the Ukrainians closed the
doors. The motor which supplied the gas was switched on by
a Ukrainian named Emil and by a German driver called Erich
Bauer from Berlin. After the gassing, the door were opened
and the corpses removed....


From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Jul 17 19:34:37 PDT 1996
Article: 51091 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Dr. Bendel Testifies About Auschwitz
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 21:56:23 GMT
Lines: 20

Testimony of Doctor Charles Bendel 
[Quoted in "The Belsen Trial" - Edited by R. Phillips, William Hodge
and Company, 1949, p. 132-133]
----------------------------------------------------------------
Now it is proper hell which is starting. The sonderkommando tries to
work as fast as possible. They drag the corpses by their wrists in
furious haste. People who had human faces before, I cannot recognize
again. They are like devils. A barrister from Salonica, an electrical
engineer from Budapest - they are no longer human beings because, 
even during the work, blows from sticks and rubber truncheons are being
showered over them. During the time this is going on they continue to
shoot people in front of these ditches, people who could not be got 
into the gas chambers because they were over-crowded. After an hour
and a half the whole work has been done and a new transport has been
dealt with in Crematorium No. 4.




-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Jul 17 23:20:22 PDT 1996
Article: 51122 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Dr. Leidig Testifies About Sachsenhausen
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 21:54:37 GMT
Lines: 16

Dr. Theodor Friedrich Leidig, testifying about one of the first 
gassings in Sachsenhausen, in which Soviet POW's were murdered
[Quoted in "Nazi Mass Murder: A Documentary History of the
Use of Poison Gas", edited by E. Kogon, H. Langbein, and
A. Rueckerl, Yale University Press, 1993, p. 54]
-------------------------------------------------------------------
I was told that the people who had climbed into the truck were
Russians who would otherwise have had to be shot. They were looking
for a different way of killing them. We then went to another place,
where we met the truck again. It was near the crematory oven. I can
still remember that one could see through a peephole or a small
window into the inside of the truck, which was lit up. One could see
that the people were dead.  The van was opened. Some bodies fell
out; the others were unloaded by prisoners. Those of us who were
chemists could ascertain that the bodies had that pinkish look which
is typical of victims of carbon monoxide poisoning.


From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Jul 17 23:20:24 PDT 1996
Article: 51123 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp.coast.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!inXS.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Photos make Holocaust story rediculous
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4sdb5i$54n@news1.io.org> <4sjeab$q15@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 21:51:59 GMT
Lines: 33

ehrlich606@aol.com (Ehrlich606) writes:

[My article quoted]

# This is Keren's response.  Comment:  But many contend 
# that the cyanide traces are totally inadequate to the
# daily gassings that are supposed to have occurred there.

Who are these "many", Mr. Kennady? You mean "revisionists"?

The same people who claim that people can protect 
themselves from cyanide poisoning by holding their
breath?

The same people who claim that corpses will "explode"
when inserted into a hot cremation furnace?

The same people who claim that closing people in a chamber,
and pumping into it the exhaust of a 500 BHP engine, will
do them no harm?

It has been repeatedly mentioned that a far shorter period
of time is necessary for homicidal gassing than for delousing,
which explains why there are relatively less traces in
the homicidal gas chambers than in the delousing chambers;
the HCN was not present long enough to form a large
amount of compounds with the walls.


-Danny Keren.





From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Jul 17 23:20:24 PDT 1996
Article: 51126 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Hans-Heintz Schutt Testifies About Sobibor
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 21:57:20 GMT
Lines: 17

Testimony of Hans-Heintz Schutt, SS-officer at Sobibor
[Quoted in "'The Good Old Days'" - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The 
Free Press, NY, 1988, p. 240]
-------------------------------------------------------------
Getting the detainees into the gas chambers did not always proceed
smoothly. The detainees would shout and weep and they often refused to 
get inside. The guards helped them on by violence. These guards were
Ukrainian volunteers who were under the authority of members of
the SS Kommando. Members of the SS held key positions in the camp, i.e.
one SS man oversaw the unloading, a further SS man led the detainees
into the reception camp, a further SS man was responsible for leading
the detainees to the undressing area, a further SS man oversaw the
confiscation of valuables and a further member of the Kommando had
to drive the detainees into the so-called tube which led to the
extermination camp. Once they were inside the so-called tube, which
led them from the hut to the extermination camp, there was no longer
any escape.


From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Jul 18 11:16:21 PDT 1996
Article: 51228 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Wilhelm Findeisen Testifies About Murder in Kiev
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 22:01:58 GMT
Lines: 15

Wilhelm Findeisen testifies about a gassing in Kiev
[Quoted in "Nazi Mass Murder: A Documentary History of the
Use of Poison Gas", edited by E. Kogon, H. Langbein, and
A. Rueckerl, Yale University Press, 1993, p. 62]
------------------------------------------------------------------
The gas van was deployed for the first time in Kiev. My job was just
to drive the vehicle. The van was loaded by the local staff. About
forty people were loaded inside. There were men, women, and children.
I was supposed to tell the people they were going to be put to work.
The people were pushed up a short ladder and into the van...
 
I drove through the town to the antitank ditches. There the doors of
the vehicle were opened. Prisoners had to do this. The bodies were
thrown into the antitank ditches. I am sure that it was in Kiev; I
myself took part in this operation.


From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Jul 19 16:19:50 PDT 1996
Article: 51427 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!inXS.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: BRADLEY SMITH'S WEBSITE SHUT DOWN
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4s5oct$pc7@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4sftet$2tok@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <4sg99t$2dg@lendl.cc.emory.edu> <16JUL199623161320@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 17:10:40 GMT
Lines: 14

## In my MY generation, we had schools, but we didn't have wood, 
## and we had to burn our legs to stay warm.  

# In MY generation, we had to burn our legs to stay warm and THEN
# we had to walk home.

Ha! in MY generation, we couldn't even burn our legs - didn't
have fire yet!


-Danny Keren.





From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Jul 19 16:19:51 PDT 1996
Article: 51429 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!newspump.sol.net!news.inc.net!trellis.wwnet.com!nntp.coast.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!inXS.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Mauving right along
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4skfu8$c9v@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 17:21:14 GMT
Lines: 22

ehrlich606@aol.com (Ehrlich606) writes:

# Yes.  Matt has argued, and I don't see a hole in his 
# argument, that the document he quotes on ZB specifically 
# references wood snippets and NOT Erco cubes.

The book by Dr. Gerhard Peters, General Manager of Degesch,
was published in 1933. It not only mentions the Erco carrier,
it even has a photograph of the Erco pellets.

One simply despairs of you people. We have gone to the trouble
not only of finding the book, but even scanned the relevant
material and posted it to the web.

But even this doesn't help. Nothing helps with you people. It's
like talking to a wall.


-Danny Keren.





From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Jul 19 16:19:52 PDT 1996
Article: 51437 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: 3,000,000 Prewar Polish Jews?
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <31dfcc8b.4344732@news.pacificnet.net> <31ebcd72.17530302@news.pacificnet.net> <4sme9j$rf4@shiva.usa.net>
Distribution: World
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 17:43:23 GMT
Lines: 41

Speech by Frank [Governor of occupied Poland], December 16 1941
[Documents on the Holocaust - Edited by Y. Arad, Y. Gutman, A. Margaliot,
NY, Ktav Pub. House in Association with Yad-Vashem, 1981, p. 247, Nazi 
Conspiracy and Aggression - Washington, U.S Govt. Print. 
Off., 1946 Vol. II p. 634]
---------------------------------------------------------------
One way or another -- I will tell you quite openly -- we must finish 
off the Jews. The Fuehrer put it into words once: should united Jewry
again succeed in setting off a world war, then the blood sacrifice
shall not be made only by the peoples driven into war, but then the
Jew of Europe will have met his end....

But what should be done with the Jews? Can you believe that they will
be accommodated in settlements in the Ostland? In Berlin we were told:
why are you making all this trouble? We don't want them either, not in
Ostland nor in the Reichskommissariat; liquidate them yourselves!
Gentlemen, I must ask you to steel yourselves against all
considerations of compassion. We must destroy the Jews wherever we
find them, and wherever it is at all possible, in order to maintain
the whole structure of the Reich...

The Jews represent for us also extraordinary malignant gluttons. We
have now approximately 2,500,000 of them in the General Government
[part of Nazi occupied Poland], perhaps with the Jewish mixtures and
everything that goes with it, 3,500,000 Jews. We cannot shoot or
poison those 3,500,000 Jews, but we shall nevertheless be able to take
measures which will lead somehow to their annihilation, and this in
connection with the gigantic measures to be determined in discussions
with the Reich.




-Danny Keren.


-- 
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.


From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Jul 19 16:19:53 PDT 1996
Article: 51484 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Thinking About the Numbers
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4snlhg$n9u@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 20:33:47 GMT
Lines: 125

ehrlich606@aol.com (Ehrlich606) writes:

# it follows that the vast majority of all victims of gassings 
# were Jews.  

That's true. About 95% of the people killed by the Nazis in
gas chambers (as opposed to killed by any means whatsoever)
were indeed Jews.

# We can accept this thinking by arguing that the Nazis had a 
# plan to physically exterminate every Jew,

We don't have to argue that. The Nazis said it, very clearly.

Hitler. Himmler. Frank. They said it.

# But if the Nazis had a plan to exterminate every Jew, but 
# not other people, why would they have murdered millions of 
# non-Jews at all?

First, if you are discussing Nazi plans for non-Jews, you should 
put the Gypsies in a separate category; most of them (save for 
two tribes, as I recall) were indeed marked for annihilation.

Why did the Nazis kill the others? They killed them during
a ruthless and brutal war, they killed them in numerous 
"retaliation" actions (the policy was to kill a hundred
hostages for every German killed), they starved many of
them, etc. But, apparently, they didn't have a plan to
kill *all*, say, Poles.

A truly striking document is the following:

Excerpted from a memorandum dated 27 April, 1942 by Dr. Erhard 
Wetzel  (a lawyer), who was serving as desk officer in the Reich 
Ministry for  the Eastern Territories
["Nazism:  A History in Documents and Eyewitness Accounts, 1919-1945", 
Volume II, J.Noakes and G.Pridham, editors. Schocken Books, New York, 
(c)1988 by the Dept. of History and Archeology, University of Exeter.  
ISBN 0-8053-0973-5 (vol. 1), 0-8052-0972-7 (vol. 2). Document #690 on 
p.979]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
 ...It should be obvious that one cannot solve the Polish problem by 
liquidating the Poles in the same way as the Jews.  Such a solution 
to the Polish problem would burden the German people with guilt for 
years to come and lose us the sympathies of people everywhere, 
particularly since our neighbors would be bound to reckon that 
they would be treated in the same way when the time came. 



# I conclude therefore that there _was_ no extermination program
# for Slavs, and it follows that the Polish and Soviet death tolls 
# are inflated.

Tough question. There was no plan, apparently, to kill all Slavs,
that is true. Does this mean that the Nazis didn't kill numerous
numbers of them? No.

You may have seen my articles from yesterday, about Nazi terror
in Poland, and starvation of the Polish population. Consider the
following document as well:

 Letter from Reichsfuehrer-SS Himmler to the Higher SS and Police 
Chief in the Ukraine, Kiev, September 7 1943
[Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression - Washington, U.S Govt. Print. 
Off., 1946, Supp. A, p. 1270]
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Pruetzmann,

Infantry general staff has special orders with regard to the Donetz
area. Get in touch with him immediately. I order you to cooperate as
much as you can. The aim to be achieved is that when areas in the 
Ukraine are evacuated, not a human being, not a single head of cattle, 
not a hundredweight of cereals and not a railway line remain behind; 
that not a house remain standing, not a mine is available which is 
not destroyed for years to come, that there is not a well which is 
not poisoned. The enemy must really find completely burned and destroyed
land. Discuss these things with Stampf straight away and do your
absolute best.



And:

 From the speech of Reichsfuehrer-SS Himmler, speaking to SS
Major-Generals, Poznan, October 4 1943
[Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression - Washington, U.S Govt. Print. 
Off., 1946, Vol. IV, p. 559]
-------------------------------------------------------------------
One basic principal must be the absolute rule for the SS man: we
must be honest, decent, loyal, and comradely to members of our own
blood and to nobody else. What happens to a Russian, to a Czech,
does not interest me in the slightest. What the nations can offer
in good blood of our type, we will take, if necessary by kidnapping
their children and raising them with us. Whether nations live in
prosperity or starve to death interests me only in so far as we
need them as slaves for our culture; otherwise, it is of no interest
to me. Whether 10,000 Russian females fall down from exhaustion
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
while digging an anti-tank ditch interests me only in so far as
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
the anti-tank ditch for Germany is finished. We shall never be rough
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
and heartless when it is not necessary, that is clear. We Germans,
who are the only people in the world who have a decent attitude
towards animals, will also assume a decent attitude towards these
human animals. But it is a crime against our own blood to worry
about them and give them ideals, thus causing our sons and
grandsons to have a more difficult time with them. When someone
comes to me and says, "I cannot dig the anti-tank ditch with women
and children, it is inhuman, for it will kill them", then I
would have to say, "you are a murderer of your own blood because
if the anti-tank ditch is not dug, German soldiers will die, and
they are the sons of German mothers. They are our own blood".



You can kill many people without an extermination plan.

Especially if you regard and treat them as sub-human animals.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Jul 19 20:20:03 PDT 1996
Article: 51513 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Photographs from BELSEN Camp
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 19:48:33 GMT
Lines: 35


The following photos are in

http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?camps/bergen-belsen/images

They are all scanned from "The Belsen Trial" - Edited by R. Phillips,
William Hodge and Company, 1949.  

Belsen01.jpg: A Mass grave in Belsen camp.
Belsen02.jpg: A bulldozer being used to bury corpses in Belsen.
Belsen03.jpg: Emaciated corpses in Belsen.
Belsen04.jpg: Plump, overweight SS-women bury skeletal corpses in Belsen.
Belsen05.jpg: The corpse of a child is thrown into a mass grave in Belsen.
         
The following photos, of some of the SS staff in Belsen (and before
that, in Auschwitz-Birkenau) are in:
       
http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/b/bormann.juana/images/

Bormann.jpg: Juana Bormann, murderous SS-woman (served in Auschwitz 
             and Belsen). 

http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/h/hoessler.franz/images/:

Hoessler.jpg: SS-officer Franz Hoessler in front of a truckload of
              corpses in Belsen.

http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/k/kramer.joseph/images/

Kramer.jpg:   Joseph Kramer, who served as commandant of Auschwitz
              II (Birkenau) and later Belsen.                       


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Jul 19 21:37:18 PDT 1996
Article: 51521 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Brack Offers to Kill 'Only' 80% Of Jews, Spare Others for Forced Labor Summary: 
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 22:18:54 GMT
Lines: 54

(A photograph of the letter can be seen in
http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/b/brack.victor/images)

Letter from SS-Oberfuehrer Brack to Reichsfuehrer-SS Himmler, June 23, 1942
[Documents on the Holocaust - Edited by Y. Arad, Y. Gutman, A. Margaliot,
NY, Ktav Pub. House in Association with Yad-Vashem, 1981, p. 272]
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Honorable Mr. Reichsfuehrer!

On instruction from Reichsleiter Bouhler I placed a part of my men at
the disposal of Brigadefuehrer Globocnik some considerable time ago
for his special task. Following a further request from him, I have
now made available more personnel. On this occasion Brigadefuehrer 
Globocnik pressed the view that the whole action against the Jews 
should be carried out as quickly as it is in any way possible, so
that we will not some day be stuck in the middle should any kind
of difficulty make it necessary to stop the action. you yourself,
Mr. Reichsfuehrer, expressed the view to me at an earlier time that
one must work as fast as possible, if only for reasons of concealment.
Both views are more than justified according to my own experience,
and basically they produce the same results. Nevertheless I beg to
be permitted to present the following consideration of my own in
this connection:

According to my impression there are at least 2-3 million men and
women well fit for work among the approx. 10 million European
Jews. In consideration of the exceptional difficulties posed for
us by the question of labor, I am of the opinion that these 2-3
million should in any case be taken out and kept alive. Of course
this can only be done if they are in the same time rendered
incapable of reproduction. I reported to you about a year ago that
persons under my instruction have completed the necessary experiments
for this purpose. I wish to bring up these facts again. The type
of sterilization which is normally carried out on persons with
genetic disease is out of the question in this case, as it takes
too much time and is expensive. Castration by means of X-rays, 
however, is not only relatively cheap, but can be carried out on
many thousands in a very short time. I believe that it has become
unimportant at the present time whether those affected will then
in the course of a few weeks or months realize by the effects that
they are castrated.

In the event, Mr. Reichsfuehrer, that you decide to choose these
means in the interest of maintaining labor-material, Reichsleiter
Bouhler will be ready to provide the doctors and other personnel
needed to carry out this work. He also instructed me to inform you
that I should then order the required equipment as quickly as
possible.




-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Jul 20 09:15:10 PDT 1996
Article: 51625 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Photos make Holocaust story rediculous
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <31e662f6.8418958@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 17:27:22 GMT
Lines: 21

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

# Now lets get this straight, thousands of people are 
# gassed in the building, and then the poisonous residue 
# is ventilated into the immediate area of the Germans 
# facilities?

We've been through this before.

There *are* cyanide traces in the building, which proves
cyanide gas *was indeed used there*. 

This means that your claim - that it would have been too
dangerous to use it there - is false.

What can't you understand? 


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Jul 20 13:06:34 PDT 1996
Article: 78553 of control
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: cancel
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 18:33:06 GMT
Lines: 1

 was cancelled from within trn.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Jul 20 21:45:56 PDT 1996
Article: 51738 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Szlama Dragon Testifies About Auschwitz
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 21:53:31 GMT
Lines: 28

Testimony of member of the Auschwitz sonderkommando, Szlama Dragon
[Quoted in "Nazi Mass Murder: A Documentary History of the
Use of Poison Gas", edited by E. Kogon, H. Langbein, and
A. Rueckerl, Yale University Press, 1993, p. 167]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
It [crematorium V] had been built on the same model as IV. Both had
four ovens on each of two sides. Three corpses could fit into each
oven. The undressing room and the gas chambers were at ground level.
The gassing operations themselves were carried out in the same way
as in bunkers 1 and 2.

 .
 .
 .

After a little while, Mengele announced that the people were dead; he
said "it's finished". And he left with [SS-man] Scheinmetz in the
Red Cross car. Then [SS-Hauptscharfuehrer] Moll opened the door of
the gas chamber; we put on our masks and dragged the corpses from
the different gas chambers through the corridor into the undressing 
room, then from there through the neighboring corridor to the crematory
ovens. 




-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Jul 20 21:45:57 PDT 1996
Article: 51743 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: It was amazing
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4rvh9s$qef@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>  <4s2kvp$d80@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 16:27:45 GMT
Lines: 18

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

## Get a job, punk. No nazihugger here willing to give this
## person a job? The punk had to retire at the age of 46, 

# Chose to, youngster.  
#
# There was not much call for clever ways to kill Russians.  

Force them to read all your articles? Nah, too cruel I guess.

So why did you retire? Your text above is self-contradicting.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Jul 20 23:30:50 PDT 1996
Article: 78716 of control
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: cancel
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 18:33:14 GMT
Lines: 1

 was cancelled from within trn.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Jul 21 17:07:29 PDT 1996
Article: 51888 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.christnet,alt.christnet.bible,alt.bible.prophecy,alt.religion.christian,talk.religion.misc
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'Revisionist' Nonsense (Re: Anti-Fascist Organisation De
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4snbm6$aj1@Networking.Stanford.EDU>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 20:56:07 GMT
Lines: 22
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:51888 alt.christnet:82422 alt.christnet.bible:44291 alt.bible.prophecy:1369 alt.religion.christian:101885 talk.religion.misc:136748

[Followup = alt.revisionism]

Two slight corrections/additions:

1) It is hardly accurate to claim that the gas chamber
   in Krema I (Auschwitz, main camp) was "built after the
   war". There are still cyanide compounds on its walls, as
   even the nutty "Holocaust revisionists" admit.

2) Re Dachau: photos of a letter from Rascher to Himmler,
   in which he states that gassing installations are being
   built in Dachau and suggests to use them to test combat
   gases on humans, are in

http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/r/rascher.sigmund/images

(note, especially, Rascher2.jpg (ref) ).


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Jul 21 18:35:50 PDT 1996
Article: 51930 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The true revisionist theme
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4r21k7$c5a@panix2.panix.com> <837210647snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>  <837646630snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 22:45:24 GMT
Lines: 38

Alexander Baron  writes:

dkeren@world.std.com "Daniel Keren" writes:

## I mean, don't you find it a little odd that *all* of them
## (who were there) say the opposite of what you crackpots
## (who were never there) say?

# They all denied involvement in the gassings.

An outright lie. I thought that you would try and stop lying
so much?

Stark, Hofmann, Fuchs and quite a few others admitted to
operating the gassing installations with their own hands.

Moreover, what's the difference? Take those who only witnessed
the gassings, and didn't actively take part.

They're all lying, and only you know the truth? Although you
were never there?

This is a joke, right?

# No Dan. Kramer made two statements; in the first he denied
# gassings, in the second he claimed to have gassed people in
# Natzweiler. Pressac says that because of his poor grasp of
# physics he described a method of gassing that was physically
# impossible. 

Can you elaborate? What was "physically impossible" is the
gassings in Natzweiler? 

Where in the book is this? 


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Jul 21 18:35:52 PDT 1996
Article: 51931 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars...
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4sn4ci$gap@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4snj1f$o24@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 20:01:11 GMT
Lines: 32

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

[About the Zyklon insertion devices in Kremas II & III]

# Beyond all of this, we are truly back to the "supid 
# Germans" if we accept this idea.  

No, we are truly back to the "stupid 'revisionists'".

# Why does anyone need more than one when one will do?

Because the gas chambers were rather large; inserting the
Zyklon in a few, evenly spaced locations, resulted in 
faster death. Hoess wrote this.

# Why does anyone need fancy wire mesh things when the 
# entire room has to be hosed down to get rid of the shit?  

"Fancy"? What was "fancy" about them? They were rather
simple and cheap. 

As was noted quite a few times, the wiremesh columns allowed
to extract the Zyklon after the victims died, hence the
problem of it continuing to release the cyanide gas when
the door was opened was solved. This would have been more
of a problem in these gas chambers, as they were underground,
hence more difficult to ventilate.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Jul 22 13:03:49 PDT 1996
Article: 52211 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Photographs from BELSEN Camp
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4spuva$po0@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 17:38:42 GMT
Lines: 29


mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# And all of these photos taken by the British to document
# the actions they ordered to deal with the deaths from disease
# and starvation that resulted from the Allied destruction of
# supply lines.  

This is a common "revisionist" lie: to blame the Allies for
the mass starvation and death in the camps. One has to
note that:

1) There was a huge amount of food at and near the camps;
   it wasn't given to the inmates. They were not even given
   water to drink, and there was no water shortage in Germany.

2) There was a very high death rate in these camps long
   before the end of the war. For instance, a letter from
   the SS Economic Division notes that, in the second half
   of 1942, 80,000 out of 130,000 inmates sent to various
   "work camps" (as opposed to death camps) died. This is
   long before the "destruction of the supply lines" which,
   according to the "revisionists", was the cause for 
   numerous deaths at the end of the war.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Jul 22 14:41:43 PDT 1996
Article: 52257 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Jamie, down by the school yard
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <31f0cb03.20170052@netnews.worldnet.att.net> <4srk7r$cnu@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 20:15:34 GMT
Lines: 12


### You mean the "context" between "Bwahahaha" and "Bwahaha"?

## uaha!

# BWAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH1

At last, some intelligent discussion on this group.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Jul 22 15:21:54 PDT 1996
Article: 52266 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: No historian has ever
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4sptl9$p7q@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> <4ssbgk$bj1@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> <4ssjbo$pne@atlas.uniserve.com> <4ssoha$erp@dfw-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 21:02:47 GMT
Lines: 14


mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

[To Hilary Ostrov]

# Dear Fatbroad,

Remember folks, he says his IQ is 163. Moreover, I recall
that he claims to have taken a few IQ tests and that 163
was his lowest score.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Jul 22 15:56:29 PDT 1996
Article: 52278 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Brack Offers to Kill 'Only' 80% Of Jews, Spare Others for Forced Labor Summary:
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4sq2j7$7f9@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 17:01:06 GMT
Lines: 39


mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

[Letter from Oberfuherer Victor Brack to Reichsfuehrer-SS 
Himmler, suggesting to kill "only" 80 percent of the Jews, 
and keep the others alive for forced labor, while "rendering 
them incapable of reproduction"]

# Strangely, but not surprisingly, we know today that
# sterilization by radiation is one of the hardest things to do.

Interesting! The Nazis have arrived at the same conclusion; they
first tried using X-rays, and then reached the conclusion
that it is, actually, not a very efficient method.

Letter from Blankenburg to Reichsfuehrer-SS Himmler, 29 April 1944
[Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military Tribunals - 
Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1949-1953, Vol. I, 723]
------------------------------------------------------------------------
By order of Reichsleiter Bouhler I submit to you as an enclosure a work
of Dr. Horst Schumann on the influence of X-rays on human genital glands.

Previously you have asked Oberfuehrer Brack to perform this work, and
you supported it by providing the adequate material in the concentration
camp Auschwitz. I point especially to the second part of this work,
which shows that by those means castration of males is almost impossible
or requires an effort which does not pay. As I have convinced myself,
operative castration requires not more than 6 to 7 minutes, and therefore
can be performed more reliably and quicker than castration by X-rays.

Soon I will be able to submit a continuation of this work to you.



Thank you for your (correct this time) observation.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Jul 22 16:24:35 PDT 1996
Article: 52291 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Just for fun
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4sssrv$b6e@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 21:31:09 GMT
Lines: 15


Well, maybe someone will find this funny.

But nothing is as funny as Giwer's suggestion that 
the mention of a "gas chamber" and a "gassing cellar" 
in the construction documents of the Birkenau kremas 
is due to a "morbid sense of humor" on the side of 
some SS-man.

Like most kooks, Giwer is funny when he's trying
to be serious.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Jul 22 16:24:37 PDT 1996
Article: 52292 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: for the last 4 days, there has been no delivery of food
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: 
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 22:39:47 GMT
Lines: 19


Testimony of Herta Ehlert, a member of the SS unit at Belsen (p. 709):
---------------------------------------------------------------------
The conditions in Belsen were a shame and a disgrace. I consider
that the people chiefly responsible were Kramer the Kommandant,
Dr. Horstmann, Untersturmfuehrer Klipp, who was for some time
Kramer's second in command, and Haupsturfuehrer Vogler, who 
worked in Kramer's office and was responsible for food supply.
I say that Kramer was responsible for the conditions, among
other reasons, because on one occasion when I complained of the
increasing death rate to Kramer he replied, "let them die, why
should you care?".




-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Jul 22 18:36:00 PDT 1996
Article: 52308 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4i63p3$l5@axl02it.ntc.nokia.com> <4skpl8$3be@hades.rz.uni-sb.de> 
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 20:27:52 GMT
Lines: 25
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.german:80304 alt.revisionism:52308


olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)

# Another thing is that I do not really understand why it is
# not received as good news for the Jews and the humanity that
# fewer Jews may have died in the concentration camps than
# generally believed. The fewer that died the better, don't you 
# agree? How can anyone regard this as defamation? 

Because they did die.

And "revisionists" spit on their graves.

# I do not owe these victims anything.

That's right. And we don't owe you anything.

# I have the right to express what I want in public about how they
# may or may not have died.

And we have the right to think that you are a revolting person.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Jul 23 07:04:17 PDT 1996
Article: 52374 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: what is the physical evidence for the holocaust pt 2?
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4ssp8j$pe0@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 22:12:32 GMT
Lines: 69


mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# the 40 acre complex at Treblinka is supposed to have 
# gassed and burned 2 million in a space of hardly two years 
# where A-B took nearly four years for its lesser number.
#
# I will point out that the current claim is that the number
# was 800,000 or so.

This was always the claim, as far as I know. This is the
figure that, for instance, was decided upon by a German
court in 1965.

It is true that an Ukrainian wachman gave a higher figure,
but I am not aware of it ever being accepted by historians.

# The executions at Treblinka were originally testified to
# have been done by electrocution, being steamed alive, and by
# being put into vacuum chambers. 

This was part of the material the prosecution presented; to
the best of my knowledge, these methods were mentioned as
*possibilities* by members of the Polish underground, who
spied on the camps from a distance. 

The more accurate testimonies were, of course, given by the
SS-men, who ran the camp and its gassing facilities; but
cheap propagandists like the "revisionists" will always
fail to mention this.

# At Treblinka the currently popular means of extermination is
# the engine exhaust from abandoned Russian tanks.  Death 
# by carbon monoxide poisoning.  What is interesting about 
# the testimony zregarding this is that it occurred in roughly 
# the same time frame as cyanide poisoning even though they 
# are not equivalently deadly nor did they have the same 
# release mechanisms.

I guess that one can kill someone quickly either by shooting
him, or beating him on the head with a heavy piece of metal.

What is your point? 

Why do you *have* to be so stupid?

# Not descriptions of the engines per se but everything 
# else that would have been needed to make them work.  For 
# example, the engine mounts.  Without engine mounts 
# anything connected to the engine will quickly fail 
# from the vibration.  

Big problem. Engine mounts.

A country that built submarines, jet planes, and rockets that
flew all the way to London, and Giwer is babbling about
engine mounts. 

Why would anyone elaborate on something as trivial as this, 
unless specifically asked to? It is a trivial technical
detail. Moreover, have you read all the testimonies given
in the Treblinka trials, and then decided that no one
spoke of the engine mounts?

Seek help. You're going down the tubes.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Jul 23 07:04:18 PDT 1996
Article: 52394 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Would even Jerry Rivers let this happen?
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4sspn5$pe0@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 20:58:09 GMT
Lines: 32


mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# Questions that are not asked are, for example, can you
# identify any of the people who did the gassing?  

Are you claiming that no witness gave the name of the
person who did the gassing?

# Can you identify the building?

Are you claiming the buildings were not identified?

# After the war they were only found in territories controlled
# by the Russians.

You have been told, many times, that this is an outright
lie; gas chambers were also found in the "Old Reich",
not only in Nazi-occupied Poland.

You talk about trials held by the Russians, while the 
Germans themselves have tried numerous former SS-men from 
the death camps.

If your IQ is reall 163 as you claim, why can't you
think a little - just a little - before posting such
rubbish? Why do you *have* to be such an idiot?


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Jul 23 07:04:19 PDT 1996
Article: 52395 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Blah-blah, Blaha
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4ssptk$ede@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 21:43:26 GMT
Lines: 24


jbelling@sprynet.com writes:

# Simply because he makes accusations does not mean that we
# ought to believe him-we need physical proof as well. 

As this is brought up: can you supply some "physical proof"
that Dresden was bombed?

There was a debate here, in which "revisionists" were asked
to provide such proof. They could not offer anything but
documents (of which they didn't present one) and eyewitness
testimonies.

Perhaps you can help your fellow "revisionists"? Then, we will
finally be able to understand what you people mean by "physical 
proof".

BTW, clever title! Giwer will probably say your IQ is 153.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Jul 23 07:04:19 PDT 1996
Article: 52428 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Note the date, 16 months ago.
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4sspvv$pe0@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 21:37:53 GMT
Lines: 28


mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

[A whole load of rubbish deleted]

# Part of this may be due to the scientific illiteracy of the
# holocaust supporters.  To them the fifty year old memories 
# of a demented 70 year old person are just as likely to be 
# true as the boiling point of cyanide is different from what 
# it has been measured to be.

This is fascinating. 

Giwer, in the past, claimed that Zyklon would not release any
HCN (cyanide gas) in a temperature of 20 degrees.

This is totally idiotic, of course; it will release the HCN,
and it will release it quite fast, as even Giwer seems to
agree now.

Yet, he accuses others of erring about the chemical properties
of Zyklon and HCN!

Incredible. 


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Jul 23 07:04:20 PDT 1996
Article: 52435 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Brack Offers to Kill 'Only' 80% Of Jews, Spare Others for Forced Labor Summary:
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4ssd9e$on4@access5.digex.net> <4sshda$er6@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> <4ste0n$3p9@access5.digex.net>
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 17:59:22 GMT
Lines: 13


What Giwer said is actually in accord with the results of
Nazi science; castration with X-rays did not prove itself
efficient, as the (later) letter from Blankenburg to 
Reichsfuehrer-SS Himmler states.

Poor old Giwer... for once he says something which is 
correct, only to shoot himself in the foot.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Jul 23 09:39:33 PDT 1996
Article: 52484 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: What is the physical evidence for the holocaust, pt 1?
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4ssp1o$pe0@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 22:31:33 GMT
Lines: 25


mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# For example, for years there was a hunt for a building at
# Auschwitz that would permit gassing of people

This person is hallucinating. There was never a "search"
for that building; it was well-known at what buildings
the gassings took place.

# Although the partially underground construction can be
# explained as means of providing a cooler environment for 
# its use as a morgue that works against the use as a gas 
# chamber as it makes the evaporation of the gas slower.

Garbage! The gas evaporates pretty fast at low temperatures,
even way below zero, as the Peters & Rasch paper clearly
states.

[Rest of Giwer's rubbish deleted - it's as worthless as what
 he wrote above]


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Jul 23 11:29:06 PDT 1996
Article: 52505 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: for the last 4 days, there has been no delivery of food
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: 
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 22:38:47 GMT
Lines: 12


The Nazis also ran out of water?

SS-Obersturmfuehrer Dr. Fritz Klein, said that numerous
died from thirst.

Re food, there were 800 tons of food in the stores of the
Panzer training school, about a mile away.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Jul 23 13:15:07 PDT 1996
Article: 52522 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!inXS.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Goering's Remarks
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4sso1g$ede@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 22:18:36 GMT
Lines: 25


jbelling@sprynet.com writes:

# Goering often used dour sarcasm to make a point.  It is 
# obvious that Speer did not understand Goering's intent.  

To quote, "bawahahah".

These "revisionist scholars". They know everything. Mind
readers. If a top Nazi said that there was a genocide of Jews, 
they claim it was "a sarcastic remark".

Do you realize what a sad joke you people are? 

# Goering was in no position to know what had happened to the 
# Jews of Hungary.

Sigh. This is just unbelievable.

Do you know who Goering was? 


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Jul 23 13:15:08 PDT 1996
Article: 52539 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!inXS.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: What was the basis for the stories about the holocaust?
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4ssovn$pe0@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 22:26:59 GMT
Lines: 46


mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# Again, there is surprisingly little.  

This is from our "Holocaust expert", who claimed that
Belsen camp was in Poland, and numerous other nonsense.

I mean, he knows nothing - nothing. But that doesn't 
stop him from making all this "deep" analysis. Heck, his 
IQ is 163, ain't it? So why should he bother with the facts?

A man who claims that "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the construction documents of the Birkenau kremas, are
due to a "morbid sense of humor" of the SS-men writing the
documents.

But, hell, it's a free country, ignorants and imbeciles
are allowed to present their opinions; I'm for it.

# Almost all of the information we have comes from eyewitnesses.  

A lie.

# Unfortunately these witnesses are not particularly credible in 
# that they tell stories that are contrary to science, conflict 
# with each other and otherwise offer fanciful elements that are 
# curious at best.  

A lie.

# And interesting sidebar to this is that Auschwitz had an
# extensive underground organization and tens of thousands of
# letters were sent in and out over the years.  Not one has been
# found that mentions gassing.  Hundreds of diaries were kept by
# inmates.  Not one of them mentions gassing.

A lie.

Stop lying so much. It may be the first step on a long way
to recovery.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Jul 23 13:15:08 PDT 1996
Article: 52540 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!inXS.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: for the last 4 days, there has been no delivery of food
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: 
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 22:34:11 GMT
Lines: 38


So, whay are the SS-women who bury the skeletal corpses so fat?

The following photos are in

http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?camps/bergen-belsen/images

They are all scanned from "The Belsen Trial" - Edited by R. Phillips,
William Hodge and Company, 1949.  

Belsen01.jpg: A Mass grave in Belsen camp.
Belsen02.jpg: A bulldozer being used to bury corpses in Belsen.
Belsen03.jpg: Emaciated corpses in Belsen.
Belsen04.jpg: Plump, overweight SS-women bury skeletal corpses in Belsen.
Belsen05.jpg: The corpse of a child is thrown into a mass grave in 
Belsen.
         
The following photos, of some of the SS staff in Belsen (and before
that, in Auschwitz-Birkenau) are in:
       
http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/b/bormann.juana/images/

Bormann.jpg: Juana Bormann, murderous SS-woman (served in Auschwitz 
             and Belsen). 

http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/h/hoessler.franz/images/:

Hoessler.jpg: SS-officer Franz Hoessler in front of a truckload of
              corpses in Belsen.

http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/k/kramer.joseph/images/

Kramer.jpg:   Joseph Kramer, who served as commandant of Auschwitz
              II (Birkenau) and later Belsen.         


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Jul 23 18:20:39 PDT 1996
Article: 52580 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: FREE SPEECH - A Matter of Philosophy, Not Law.
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4ss385$2f2@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com> <4suu16$rjm@news.enter.net> <4svfcc$8a1@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 19:16:05 GMT
Lines: 13

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

[To Yale F. Edeiken]

# Straight from the Library of Congress to you, jerkoff Jew.

I already told you that you're going down the tubes.

Seek medical help, maybe it's not too late.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Jul 23 18:20:40 PDT 1996
Article: 52607 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-9.sprintlink.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!usenet2.news.uk.psi.net!uknet!usenet1.news.uk.psi.net!uknet!EU.net!sun4nl!wirehub!news.euro.net!venus.euro.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: German hegemony over Europe through the European Union
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4sb1gt$kun@news.enter.net>  
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 19:27:09 GMT
Lines: 26

olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg) writes:

# Well much of what he wrote in that report has been 
# confirmed by the Walther Lueftl report 

Damn... this is like talking to a bloody brick wall.

We've been through this a thousand times.

Lueftl also claims that exhaust from a 500 BHP diesel
engine will harm nobody, while experiments proved that
animals exposed to the exhaust of a 6 BHP diesel engine
will die (the time it took them to die depended on
the tuning of the engine).

This is but one example of the rubbish his "report"
consists of.

In short, if you'll excuse my language, Lueftl is full
of kaka, and so are the idiots who continue to quote
him, after his gross errors and lies have been pointed
out so many times.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Jul 23 18:20:41 PDT 1996
Article: 52624 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The THE himself
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4ssdcq$9gu@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com> <4suq4e$cn1@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <4svivi$c0v@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com> <4t043k$itl@access5.digex.net>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 20:39:07 GMT
Lines: 15

Matt  Giwer  wrote:

# But upon the last post on this subject, you do no have tax
# exempt status and therefore such solicitation is criminal.

This seems like a totally idiotic statement.

Can someone who knows something about these matters confirm?

It is clear that Giwer is going down the tubes. 


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Jul 23 18:20:42 PDT 1996
Article: 52625 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: 3,000,000 Prewar Polish Jews?
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <31dfcc8b.4344732@news.pacificnet.net> <4sme9j$rf4@shiva.usa.net> <31ef84d2.894783@news.pacificnet.net> <4t0hr0$a4v@shiva.usa.net>
Distribution: World
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 20:45:28 GMT
Lines: 41

tom moran (tm@pacificnet.net) wrote:

# So far a lot of snarling and foaming at the mouth in
# response to this post, but nothing of substance to undo it.

Speech by Frank [Governor of occupied Poland], December 16 1941
[Documents on the Holocaust - Edited by Y. Arad, Y. Gutman, A. Margaliot,
NY, Ktav Pub. House in Association with Yad-Vashem, 1981, p. 247, Nazi 
Conspiracy and Aggression - Washington, U.S Govt. Print. 
Off., 1946 Vol. II p. 634]
---------------------------------------------------------------
One way or another -- I will tell you quite openly -- we must finish 
off the Jews. The Fuehrer put it into words once: should united Jewry
again succeed in setting off a world war, then the blood sacrifice
shall not be made only by the peoples driven into war, but then the
Jew of Europe will have met his end....

But what should be done with the Jews? Can you believe that they will
be accommodated in settlements in the Ostland? In Berlin we were told:
why are you making all this trouble? We don't want them either, not in
Ostland nor in the Reichskommissariat; liquidate them yourselves!
Gentlemen, I must ask you to steel yourselves against all
considerations of compassion. We must destroy the Jews wherever we
find them, and wherever it is at all possible, in order to maintain
the whole structure of the Reich...

The Jews represent for us also extraordinary malignant gluttons. We
have now approximately 2,500,000 of them in the General Government
[part of Nazi occupied Poland], perhaps with the Jewish mixtures and
everything that goes with it, 3,500,000 Jews. We cannot shoot or
poison those 3,500,000 Jews, but we shall nevertheless be able to take
measures which will lead somehow to their annihilation, and this in
connection with the gigantic measures to be determined in discussions
with the Reich.




-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Jul 23 18:20:42 PDT 1996
Article: 52629 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!arclight.uoregon.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Blah-blah, Blaha
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4ssptk$ede@juliana.sprynet.com> <837951148snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 17:28:49 GMT
Lines: 27

Alexander Baron  writes:

# Blaha's testimony is complete junk.

This, according to the Baron rule: 

Al Baron, who was never in a Nazi camp, knows more about
what happened in these camps than everybody who was actually
in them.

That's it. Once you accept the Baron rule, the rest of
"revisionism" follows. It's that simple.

One can only marvel at the results of applying the Baron
rule to other historical events.

It's marvelous; true intellectual democracy. You see, folks,
everyone will have his/her very own version of history. Instead
of this tired old method of having to rely on evidence, we
will be able to let our imagination soar, and rewrite the
history of any event which we like. 

The mind boggles. 


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Jul 23 18:20:43 PDT 1996
Article: 52630 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: auschwitz:myths and facts
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: 
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 19:57:35 GMT
Lines: 16

Testimony of SS-Obersturmfuehrer Dr. Fritz Klein 
[Quoted in "The Belsen Trial" - Edited by R. Phillips, William Hodge and
Company, 1949.p. 717]
----------------------------------------------------------------
When transports arrived at Auschwitz it was the doctor's job to pick
out those who were unfit or unable to work. These included children, 
old people and the sick. I have seen the gas chambers and crematoria 
at Auschwitz, and I knew that those I selected were to go to the gas
chamber. But I only acted on orders given to me by Dr. Wirtz.

 .
 .
 .

I never protested against people being sent to the gas chambers, 
although I never agreed. One cannot protest when in the army.


From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Jul 23 18:20:44 PDT 1996
Article: 52631 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: auschwitz:myths and facts
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: 
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 20:01:24 GMT
Lines: 94

Testimony of Dr. Hans W. Muench 
[Quoted in "Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military 
Tribunals" - Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1949-1953, Vol.
VIII, p. 313-321]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Q. What was your first impression of Auschwitz when you arrived?

A. I had already heard about extermination camps, and particularly
   extermination camps for Jews, through reports over the Swiss radio
   that I listened to regularly in the preceding years, but since I
   considered this news to be propaganda, I did not believe it at the
   time, because the facts that were being described seemed too 
   terribly outrageous to me. When I arrived in Auschwitz, and had to
   convince myself personally that these reports were not exaggerated, 
   I was very much shaken emotionally.
 
 .
 .
 .


Q. Mr. witness, you were informed about the fact that human beings were
   gassed at Auschwitz?

A. Yes.

 .
 .
 .

Q. Mr. witness, for what reason did you not spread the fact that human
   beings were being gassed and exterminated?

A. I was asked this very often and also before the Supreme Court of 
   Cracow, and I can say in answer to it that that would have been a 
   completely useless undertaking which would have very shortly caused 
   me and my family to be liquidated very quickly, because the Gestapo 
   was so well organized and the threats for nonobservance of the 
   secrecy that surrounded the Auschwitz exterminations were so clearly 
   worded for members of the SS that everybody avoided telling even his 
   closest friend about it, because experience taught us that anybody 
   who talked about it in any way was very quickly found because the 
   Gestapo sniffed out every rumor very consistently that spread about 
   Auschwitz.

 .
 .
 .

Q. Mr. witness, what would you say if someone visited a plant in
   Auschwitz twice or three times a year for a period of one or two
   days? Would he then have to gain knowledge about these things?

A. I repeatedly witnessed guided tours of civilians and also of
   commissions of the Red Cross and other parties within the camp,
   and I was able to ascertain that the camp leadership arranged it
   masterfully to conduct these guided tours in such a way that the 
   people being guided around did not see anything about inhuman
   treatment. The main camp was shown only and in this main camp there
   were so-called show blocks, particularly block 13, that were
   especially prepared for such guided tours and that were equipped 
   like a normal soldier's barracks with beds that had sheets on them, 
   and well-functioning washrooms. 

 .
 .
 .

Q. Mr. witness, did you personally ever witness the gassing of human
   beings?

A. Yes, I saw one gassing at one time.

 .
 .
 .

Q. Mr. witness, you testified a little earlier that those who were sick
   in the camps, like in concentration camp Monowitz, would be sent to
   Auschwitz-Birkenau, but I wasn't quite clear as to why they were 
   sent to Auschwitz-Birkenau. I'd like to put just a question or two 
   to you on that. Mr. witness, those people who were in the hospital 
   at Monowitz and were shipped to Auschwitz-Birkenau because of an
   edema or phlegmon, for what purpose were they shipped to Birkenau?

A. As far as these people were Jews, I must state that most of them
   were gassed.


Q. And, Mr. witness, if they were sent from the hospital in Monowitz to
   Auschwitz-Birkenau, and they were Jews; and they were sent because 
   of weakness and collapse, why were they sent to Birkenau?

A. Also to be gassed.


From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Jul 23 20:23:34 PDT 1996
Article: 52580 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: FREE SPEECH - A Matter of Philosophy, Not Law.
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4ss385$2f2@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com> <4suu16$rjm@news.enter.net> <4svfcc$8a1@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 19:16:05 GMT
Lines: 13

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

[To Yale F. Edeiken]

# Straight from the Library of Congress to you, jerkoff Jew.

I already told you that you're going down the tubes.

Seek medical help, maybe it's not too late.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Jul 23 20:23:35 PDT 1996
Article: 52607 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-9.sprintlink.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!usenet2.news.uk.psi.net!uknet!usenet1.news.uk.psi.net!uknet!EU.net!sun4nl!wirehub!news.euro.net!venus.euro.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: German hegemony over Europe through the European Union
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4sb1gt$kun@news.enter.net>  
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 19:27:09 GMT
Lines: 26

olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg) writes:

# Well much of what he wrote in that report has been 
# confirmed by the Walther Lueftl report 

Damn... this is like talking to a bloody brick wall.

We've been through this a thousand times.

Lueftl also claims that exhaust from a 500 BHP diesel
engine will harm nobody, while experiments proved that
animals exposed to the exhaust of a 6 BHP diesel engine
will die (the time it took them to die depended on
the tuning of the engine).

This is but one example of the rubbish his "report"
consists of.

In short, if you'll excuse my language, Lueftl is full
of kaka, and so are the idiots who continue to quote
him, after his gross errors and lies have been pointed
out so many times.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Jul 23 20:23:36 PDT 1996
Article: 52625 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: 3,000,000 Prewar Polish Jews?
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <31dfcc8b.4344732@news.pacificnet.net> <4sme9j$rf4@shiva.usa.net> <31ef84d2.894783@news.pacificnet.net> <4t0hr0$a4v@shiva.usa.net>
Distribution: World
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 20:45:28 GMT
Lines: 41

tom moran (tm@pacificnet.net) wrote:

# So far a lot of snarling and foaming at the mouth in
# response to this post, but nothing of substance to undo it.

Speech by Frank [Governor of occupied Poland], December 16 1941
[Documents on the Holocaust - Edited by Y. Arad, Y. Gutman, A. Margaliot,
NY, Ktav Pub. House in Association with Yad-Vashem, 1981, p. 247, Nazi 
Conspiracy and Aggression - Washington, U.S Govt. Print. 
Off., 1946 Vol. II p. 634]
---------------------------------------------------------------
One way or another -- I will tell you quite openly -- we must finish 
off the Jews. The Fuehrer put it into words once: should united Jewry
again succeed in setting off a world war, then the blood sacrifice
shall not be made only by the peoples driven into war, but then the
Jew of Europe will have met his end....

But what should be done with the Jews? Can you believe that they will
be accommodated in settlements in the Ostland? In Berlin we were told:
why are you making all this trouble? We don't want them either, not in
Ostland nor in the Reichskommissariat; liquidate them yourselves!
Gentlemen, I must ask you to steel yourselves against all
considerations of compassion. We must destroy the Jews wherever we
find them, and wherever it is at all possible, in order to maintain
the whole structure of the Reich...

The Jews represent for us also extraordinary malignant gluttons. We
have now approximately 2,500,000 of them in the General Government
[part of Nazi occupied Poland], perhaps with the Jewish mixtures and
everything that goes with it, 3,500,000 Jews. We cannot shoot or
poison those 3,500,000 Jews, but we shall nevertheless be able to take
measures which will lead somehow to their annihilation, and this in
connection with the gigantic measures to be determined in discussions
with the Reich.




-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Jul 23 20:23:36 PDT 1996
Article: 52629 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!arclight.uoregon.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Blah-blah, Blaha
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4ssptk$ede@juliana.sprynet.com> <837951148snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 17:28:49 GMT
Lines: 27

Alexander Baron  writes:

# Blaha's testimony is complete junk.

This, according to the Baron rule: 

Al Baron, who was never in a Nazi camp, knows more about
what happened in these camps than everybody who was actually
in them.

That's it. Once you accept the Baron rule, the rest of
"revisionism" follows. It's that simple.

One can only marvel at the results of applying the Baron
rule to other historical events.

It's marvelous; true intellectual democracy. You see, folks,
everyone will have his/her very own version of history. Instead
of this tired old method of having to rely on evidence, we
will be able to let our imagination soar, and rewrite the
history of any event which we like. 

The mind boggles. 


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Jul 23 20:23:37 PDT 1996
Article: 52630 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: auschwitz:myths and facts
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: 
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 19:57:35 GMT
Lines: 16

Testimony of SS-Obersturmfuehrer Dr. Fritz Klein 
[Quoted in "The Belsen Trial" - Edited by R. Phillips, William Hodge and
Company, 1949.p. 717]
----------------------------------------------------------------
When transports arrived at Auschwitz it was the doctor's job to pick
out those who were unfit or unable to work. These included children, 
old people and the sick. I have seen the gas chambers and crematoria 
at Auschwitz, and I knew that those I selected were to go to the gas
chamber. But I only acted on orders given to me by Dr. Wirtz.

 .
 .
 .

I never protested against people being sent to the gas chambers, 
although I never agreed. One cannot protest when in the army.


From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Jul 23 20:23:38 PDT 1996
Article: 52631 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: auschwitz:myths and facts
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: 
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 20:01:24 GMT
Lines: 94

Testimony of Dr. Hans W. Muench 
[Quoted in "Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military 
Tribunals" - Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1949-1953, Vol.
VIII, p. 313-321]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Q. What was your first impression of Auschwitz when you arrived?

A. I had already heard about extermination camps, and particularly
   extermination camps for Jews, through reports over the Swiss radio
   that I listened to regularly in the preceding years, but since I
   considered this news to be propaganda, I did not believe it at the
   time, because the facts that were being described seemed too 
   terribly outrageous to me. When I arrived in Auschwitz, and had to
   convince myself personally that these reports were not exaggerated, 
   I was very much shaken emotionally.
 
 .
 .
 .


Q. Mr. witness, you were informed about the fact that human beings were
   gassed at Auschwitz?

A. Yes.

 .
 .
 .

Q. Mr. witness, for what reason did you not spread the fact that human
   beings were being gassed and exterminated?

A. I was asked this very often and also before the Supreme Court of 
   Cracow, and I can say in answer to it that that would have been a 
   completely useless undertaking which would have very shortly caused 
   me and my family to be liquidated very quickly, because the Gestapo 
   was so well organized and the threats for nonobservance of the 
   secrecy that surrounded the Auschwitz exterminations were so clearly 
   worded for members of the SS that everybody avoided telling even his 
   closest friend about it, because experience taught us that anybody 
   who talked about it in any way was very quickly found because the 
   Gestapo sniffed out every rumor very consistently that spread about 
   Auschwitz.

 .
 .
 .

Q. Mr. witness, what would you say if someone visited a plant in
   Auschwitz twice or three times a year for a period of one or two
   days? Would he then have to gain knowledge about these things?

A. I repeatedly witnessed guided tours of civilians and also of
   commissions of the Red Cross and other parties within the camp,
   and I was able to ascertain that the camp leadership arranged it
   masterfully to conduct these guided tours in such a way that the 
   people being guided around did not see anything about inhuman
   treatment. The main camp was shown only and in this main camp there
   were so-called show blocks, particularly block 13, that were
   especially prepared for such guided tours and that were equipped 
   like a normal soldier's barracks with beds that had sheets on them, 
   and well-functioning washrooms. 

 .
 .
 .

Q. Mr. witness, did you personally ever witness the gassing of human
   beings?

A. Yes, I saw one gassing at one time.

 .
 .
 .

Q. Mr. witness, you testified a little earlier that those who were sick
   in the camps, like in concentration camp Monowitz, would be sent to
   Auschwitz-Birkenau, but I wasn't quite clear as to why they were 
   sent to Auschwitz-Birkenau. I'd like to put just a question or two 
   to you on that. Mr. witness, those people who were in the hospital 
   at Monowitz and were shipped to Auschwitz-Birkenau because of an
   edema or phlegmon, for what purpose were they shipped to Birkenau?

A. As far as these people were Jews, I must state that most of them
   were gassed.


Q. And, Mr. witness, if they were sent from the hospital in Monowitz to
   Auschwitz-Birkenau, and they were Jews; and they were sent because 
   of weakness and collapse, why were they sent to Birkenau?

A. Also to be gassed.


From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Jul 24 07:09:30 PDT 1996
Article: 52792 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!nic.ott.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Brack Offers to Kill 'Only' 80% Of Jews, Spare Others for Forced Labor Summary:
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4ste0n$3p9@access5.digex.net>  <4t1olk$711@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 18:18:55 GMT
Lines: 24

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# What I said, equally deficient in English fool, is that 
# there is not one documented case of it ever having happened.

Of WHAT ever having happened?

# NOT ONE VICTIM!  

Not one victim of WHAT?

Your anger is understood - you sought to undermine the evidence
for the sterilization program, by (correctly) claiming that
castration by X-rays is not efficient; but you only supported
the evidence, because a later document shows that the Nazis
who ran the program reached the same conclusion!

But have no fear. ZOG will remember your help and reward you
generously. Hello, Ken! Please set up a condo for Giwer. With
a T1 attached.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Jul 24 07:09:30 PDT 1996
Article: 52822 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: auschwitz:myths and facts
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: 
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 19:59:10 GMT
Lines: 26



Testimony of SS-Obersturmfuehrer Franz Hoessler  
[Quoted in "The Belsen Trial" - Edited by R. Phillips, William Hodge
and Company, 1949, p. 714-715]
----------------------------------------------------------------
Everyone in the camp knew about the gas chamber at Auschwitz, but at 
no time did I take part in the selection of prisoners who were to go to
the gas chambers and then be cremated. Whilst I was there selection of
prisoners for the gas chambers was done by Dr. Klein, Dr. Mengele and
other young doctors whose names I do not know. I have attended these
parades, but my job was merely to keep order. Often women were paraded
naked in front of the doctors and persons selected by the doctors were
sent to the gas chamber.

 .
 .
 .

I made many complaints to Hoess about the way people were being sent to
the gas chamber, but I was told it was not my business.




-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Jul 24 07:09:31 PDT 1996
Article: 52823 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: auschwitz:myths and facts
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: 
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 20:01:02 GMT
Lines: 16


Testimony of SS-Unterscharfuehrer Pery Broad, describing gassing in
Krema I in Auschwitz
[Quoted in "KL Auschwitz as Seen by the SS", p. 176]
-------------------------------------------------------------
 ... The "disinfectors" were at work. One of them was SS-Unterscharfuehrer
Teuer, decorated with the Cross of War Merit. With a chisel and a
hammer they opened a few innocuously looking tins which bore the
inscription "Cyclon, to be used against vermin. Attention, poison!
to be opened by trained personnel only!". The tins were filled to
the brim with blue granules the size of peas. Immediately after
opening the tins, their contents was thrown into the holes which
were then quickly covered. Meanwhile Grabner gave a sign to the driver
of a lorry, which had stopped close to the crematorium. The driver
started the motor and its deafening noise was louder than the
death cries of the hundreds of people inside, being gassed to death.


From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Jul 24 07:09:32 PDT 1996
Article: 52824 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,berlin.general,fido.contakt-ger,chemnitz.talk
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!overload.lbl.gov!agate!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news.ultranet.com!homer.alpha.net!daily-planet.execpc.com!news.sol.net!news.inc.net!newspump.sol.net!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Allies Murdered German POW's
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <31F1800A.1C43@concentric.net>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 17:50:46 GMT
Lines: 20

echte Wahrheit  writes:

# In the documentary book EISENHOWER 7 THE GERMAN POW'S, by 
# Gunter Bischoff and Steven Ambrose,published in 1992, is 
# detailed the story of the deliberate murder of German POW's 
# at the end of WW II.

No. The false accusations of murder of German POW's appeared
in a book by someone named Bacque. The book you mention above
was written as a response.

While there was some mistreatment of German POW's, there was
absolutely no mass murder of them. Bacque's "missing" POW's were
members of the "Volksturm", who were released by the Americans.

I can post more, if there's interest.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Jul 24 07:41:06 PDT 1996
Article: 52837 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!gatech!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: NO VENTS [SEPT 13 1944]
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: 
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 17:41:04 GMT
Lines: 47

Jeffrey  writes:

# Notice there are NO "mushroom-like concrete objects" on
# the morgue next to the Crematorium.

This is mid-September 1944, that is, a short time before
the SS fled from the camp, other having destroyed the Kremas.

Earlier photos clearly show the vents. Wasn't this one taken
after the dismantling of the Kremas began? There are other
(I recall later) photographs, which show the roof collapsed
and the Kremas destroyed. I don't have Pressac's book handy;
perhaps someone can check when the dismantling of these
Kremas began.

# The photo is quite clear, there were NO "concrete 
# mushroom-like objects" on the top of the morgue. 

Perhaps, in mid-September. What about the earlier photographs?

# So lets amend the paragraph by the holocaust hate propagandist
# Reitlinger.

You're starting to sound like some Communist propagandist
>from  the 1930's, with these endless repeats of "holocaust 
hate propagandist".

# "The ground over the DELOUSING cellar was converted into 
# well-kept lawn.

This is bloody incredible. First, our whacky "revisionists"
claim it was a morgue, now they claim it was a delousing
chamber. They also used to claim it was a room in which
gases for the furnaces were mixed (!!).

Most interestingly, they claimed that it would have been
impossible to use cyanide gas in these rooms, and now they
claim they were really delousing chambers, which use high
concentrations of cyanide gas for a long time...

These "revisionists" are very strange people.


-Danny Keren.





From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Jul 24 11:16:58 PDT 1996
Article: 52851 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Another word on Dachau
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4smuvt$52o@d31sg0.Stanford.EDU> <4sn3dl$ftf@newsbf02.news.aol.com> 
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 18:47:48 GMT
Lines: 29

Actually, the story with Dr. Spanner is quite odd.

The "Institute for Contemporary History" sent me, at
my request, material which indicates that the German
authorities studied the case after the war, and reached
the conclusion that the soap-like material is something
which is created when corpses are subject to a "mazeration"
process, and that the Nurnberg prosecution erred in
thinking that there was intentional manufacture of soap.

This is why Spanner was let off the hook.

This process is probably what the corpses in the well-known
"soap factory" photos were subjected too (one can see a few
large vats filled with disfigured corpses, which look as
though they had been submerged in acid; this was discovered
after the liberation, in Danzig, where Spanner was in charge).

Odd story, indeed; it definitely could use some further
investigation.

Posted, and e-mailed to Charles Power and Ehrlich606.


-Danny Keren.






From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Jul 24 11:16:59 PDT 1996
Article: 52859 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.cloud9.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars...
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4t3g3r$ad@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 23:46:31 GMT
Lines: 28

ehrlich606@aol.com (Ehrlich606) writes:

[To Jamie McCarthy]

# Maybe it's just you.  

No, it's not just him.

The fact that Mr. McCarthy commented upon - that Giwer, after
all this time, continues to confuse the support pillars with
the wiremesh introduction devices, does prove that Giwer is
not a "skeptic".

It proves that he's either brain damaged, senile, a masochist
who wants as many people as possible to think that he's 
mentally retarded, or a combination of these attributes.

It's also possible that he's simply trying to confuse, and
wear people out, by repeating his idiotic lies over and
over and over again.

But he ain't no skeptic. 


-Danny Keren.





From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Jul 24 11:17:00 PDT 1996
Article: 52869 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.cloud9.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: for the last 4 days, there has been no delivery of food
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:   <31f4e040.2730431@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 23:55:51 GMT
Lines: 20

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

[About photographs of corpses in Belsen]

# None of which says it was the result of a mass extermination
# process. 

You should have defended Kramer and Hoessler in their
trial, Moran. Maybe, then, they wouldn't have ended
up at the end of a rope.

But, most probably, they would hang themselves, just to
spare the torture of hearing you talk.

Go ahead, Bawawawawaw me.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Jul 24 11:17:00 PDT 1996
Article: 52870 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.cloud9.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Moran's Scientific Breakthrough Saves World! (Re: for th
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:   <31f4e044.2734001@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 00:12:57 GMT
Lines: 29

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

## Re food, there were 800 tons of food in the stores of the
## Panzer training school, about a mile away.

# "800 tons"? What was it stored for? The students? Enough to 
# keep 6 or 7 thousand people alive for a hundred years?

Let's do a little calculation here:

(800*1000)/(6000*100*360) = 0.0037

That is, 800 tons of food, distributed over 6-7 thousand people
over a 100 years, gives, as far as I can see, 0.0037 kilograms,
or 3.7 grams, per person per day.

I see that you're now claiming that a person can live on 3.7
grams of food per day.

Heck, this is even better than your previous, very famous,
example of "Moranic mathematics".

Go to sleep, zeide. There. There. That's more like it.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Jul 24 11:17:01 PDT 1996
Article: 52871 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.cloud9.net!news.stealth.net!demos!news1.relcom.ru!EU.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Moving right along
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4svjr1$83m@dfw-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com> <31F3DB01.7B5A@gryn.org> <4t1vh7$dd7@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 21:11:10 GMT
Lines: 16

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# Now that we have clearly established there was no gassing
# any place at any time can we move on with this conference?

Does anyone remember that fellow from Iraq, who was interviewed 
(by CNN I think), right after the Gulf War ended?

The guy kept screaming "we won! That's it! We won!".

How pathetic. How sad and pathetic.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Jul 24 13:29:57 PDT 1996
Article: 52873 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!BellSouth!news.service.emory.edu!cssun.mathcs.emory.edu!swrinde!news.sgi.com!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'Revisionist' Insanity Reaches New Heights... (Re: KREMA II)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: 
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 19:56:20 GMT
Lines: 47

Jeffrey  writes:

# THE GIF FILE in this thread is a picture of Krematorium 
# no II at Birkenau, in January 1943 [cf Pressac Auschwitz..pg 335]. 

January 1943. Before it was completed, of course.

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz/images/Krema3.jpg

shows a photo taken after Krema III was complete. It does
show the four introduction devices.

# The concrete structure in the foreground is a morgue, 
# the so-called "vegasungskeller", which also serves as a  
# delousing cellar, a "Entlausingkammer". 

Do you have any proof whatsoever that this room was used
for delousing?

Do you know of any delousing chambers of this size?

Moreover, we know that delousing leaves a high amount
of cyanide residues, as the exposure to the gas is very long,
and a high amount of compounds will be formed.

Do you even understand what kind of idiots you people are?

You claimed that mass gassing could not have taken place 
in this chamber, as there are not enough cyanide traces. And
now you claim it was used for delousing, which, because
of the much longer exposure involved, would leave far more
traces than homicidal gassing!!

# There are no "mushroom-like concrete objects". 

Again, see 

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz/images/Krema3.jpg

# THIS is because the canard of "homicidal gas chambers" is 
# PROPAGANDA FICTION. IT'S JUST DRIVEL.

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz/images/Krema3.jpg


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Jul 24 13:29:59 PDT 1996
Article: 52882 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Moran's Scientific Breakthrough Saves World! (Re: for th
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4t48de$bvu@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 18:01:34 GMT
Lines: 27

ehrlich606@aol.com (Ehrlich606) writes:

# Dan, I like your posts, but your attempt at a remorseless 
# putdown of Tom would have been better if you got your 
# magnitudes right.  A ton is either 2,000 lbs. or 2,240, 
# long or short.  So everyone gets 7.4 grams a day, which 
# is _twice_ as much as you calculated.

Hmm. I assumed a ton to mean 1,000 kilograms, or 1,000,000
grams, is that correct?

So, we have 800 tons, over 6,000 people for 100 years,
approximating by 360 days a year gives:

(800*1000000)/(6000*100*360) = 3.7

Where's the mistake? Possibly, you're assuming a gram to
mean 1/1000 of 1 lbs.? I went by the European system.

Posted/e-mailed.


-Danny Keren.






From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Jul 24 14:51:57 PDT 1996
Article: 52894 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.inc.net!newspump.sol.net!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Another word on Dachau
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4smuvt$52o@d31sg0.Stanford.EDU>   
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 17:37:53 GMT
Lines: 27

karlpov@access5.digex.net (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:

## The "Institute for Contemporary History" sent me, at
## my request, material which indicates that the German
## authorities studied the case after the war, and reached
## the conclusion that the soap-like material is something
## which is created when corpses are subject to a "mazeration"
## process, and that the Nurnberg prosecution erred in
## thinking that there was intentional manufacture of soap.

# OK, I have to admit I don't get it. Why was Spanner being
# supplied with beheaded corpses? 

I don't know.

# Was there some reason beside the bruited soap experiments 
# to, er, mazerate all this tissue?

Probably, to have the skeleton. Why? I don't know. This
is something that needs to be studied; the place to start
would be the trial (or investigation) record. I can't
believe, though, that it is in any language but German.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Jul 24 18:18:55 PDT 1996
Article: 52914 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!portc01.blue.aol.com!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.texas.net!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Brack Offers to Kill 'Only' 80% Of Jews, Spare Others for Forced Labor Summary:
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4sq2j7$7f9@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>  <4t1oo2$711@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 18:10:53 GMT
Lines: 16

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# NOT ONE SUCH PERSON EVER FOUND.

What does "SUCH PERSON" mean? Please explain.

# Unless maybe your father.

Surely, with 163 IQ pts. you claim to have, you can think
of more mature and intelligent jokes?

You're going down the tubes. Seek medical help.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Jul 24 18:18:56 PDT 1996
Article: 52930 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: for the last 4 days, there has been no delivery of food
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:   <31f4e044.2734001@news.pacificnet.net> <4t4oc4$aql@dfw-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 21:03:51 GMT
Lines: 27


mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
# tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

## "800 tons"? What was it stored for? The students? Enough 
## to keep 6 or 7 thousand people alive for a hundred years?

# The usual librarian fantasy from Keren.  

Giwer apparently agrees with Moran's statement that 800
tons of food are enough for 6-7 thousand people to
survive on, for a 100 years.

# It is only surprising that he did not claim millions of
# tons of food.

Why do you think that 800 tons of food in the barracks of
an army base is unbelievable?

Why don't you just claim that the Nazis couldn't feed the 
Belsen inmates because they lost the key to the food store? 
That would be a far stronger argument than those you have 
presented so far.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Jul 24 21:55:46 PDT 1996
Article: 52941 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Photographs from BELSEN Camp
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4spuva$po0@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>  <4t1oaq$711@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 18:33:06 GMT
Lines: 36

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# Fact: anything that moved was attacked and destroyed by 
# Allied fighters.  

And the most amazing thing is, apparently, that they hit
*only* food that was delivered to the inmates, is that
what you're claiming?

If not, how come there was no starvation among the local
Germans?

Heck, maybe these "revisionists" are claiming that the
ever-so-good Nazis were giving the inmates kosher food,
and that the wicked Allies had smart bombs that hit
only trucks and trains carrying kosher food, who knows.

And, don't tell me - the Allied fighters also sucked out
all the water from the river nearby, and that's why the
inmated were not given any water to drink? Is this what
you're claiming?

Why was there no mass starvation among Allied POW's? The 
death rate among them was rather low; 3.6 percent of the
American and British POW's died in Nazi captivity.

You know why, Giwer? Not because the Allies someone
missed hitting the trucks which delivered the food for
them; but because the Nazis didn't place them in the
"sub-human not worth wasting good food on" category.

Do you get it, Giwer?


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Jul 24 21:55:47 PDT 1996
Article: 52958 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: 3,000,000 Prewar Polish Jews?
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <31dfcc8b.4344732@news.pacificnet.net> <4t0hr0$a4v@shiva.usa.net>  <4t436h$h7@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 17:46:09 GMT
Lines: 36

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

[About the Entry from the diary of Frank, Governor of 
 Nazi-occupied Poland]

## The Fuehrer put it into words once: should united Jewry
## again succeed in setting off a world war, then the blood 
## sacrifice shall not be made only by the peoples driven 
## into war, but then the Jew of Europe will have met his end....

# For example, given the date, Germany had already declared
# war on the US.  It is unclear what future world war he is
# talking about.  

It is unclear to someone who is mentally retarded, and/or
cannot read English. Which of the two attributes fit you?

Frank is referring to the well-known threat made by 
Hitler *before* the war. Note "once" in the quote.

# And here the "liquidate them yourselves" is completely 
# contrary to the usual claims of the SS running the entire 
# operation. 

It may come as a shock to you, but the SS was not above
Hitler. He told them what to do.

# And of course these discussions, if they occurred, are
# completely contrary to the usual form of the story.  

Why is that?


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Jul 25 06:39:00 PDT 1996
Article: 53065 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: McFly
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4t26c5$pml@dfw-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 21:15:36 GMT
Lines: 17

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# Now we have McFly wasting all his creating ignoed messages.
#
# What s tool.  

Huh?

What on earth is this sick man babbling about? And in what
language?

He needs help.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Jul 25 09:10:15 PDT 1996
Article: 53104 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news.ironhorse.com!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!mr.net!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Khazars
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4rvsis$e4e@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com> <4sve5e$abj@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com> <4t2vrv$hd@bell.maths.tcd.ie> <4t4236$p45@dfw-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 18:47:39 GMT
Lines: 18


mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
# dbell@maths.tcd.ie (Derek Bell) wrote:

## What is this "post 1492 Passover fair" crap? Oh, I 
## forgot - you're talking through your arse again.

Yes, and it's hard to talk and think at the same time,
so do excuse Giwer.

# Where do you think potatoes came from?  

What bloody potatoes? We're supposed to eat potatoes
in the seder? Uh-Oh :-).


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Jul 25 11:43:52 PDT 1996
Article: 53118 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!mr.net!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Giwer is over
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4svhci$68g@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>  <4t2mgh$581@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <4t4r3k$9pl@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 21:40:53 GMT
Lines: 28

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# It makes the sadist in him feel good.  

This from Matt Giwer, who:

1) Continuously calls posters here "dumb fuck", "piece of
   shit", "fat broad", etc.

2) Jokes about photographs showing women being shot to death.

3) Jokes about testimonies describing mass murder of innocent
   people by the Nazis.

4) Posted, if memory serves my right, that it was "good" that
   his wife died.

5) States that the US should have responded to the erroneous
   attack on the USS Liberty (during the 1967 Arab-Israeli War),
   by killing hundreds-of-thousands of Israeli civilians.
   
And this maniac is calling other people "sadists". Now that's
a joke.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Jul 25 11:43:54 PDT 1996
Article: 53119 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Photographs from BUCHENWALD Camp
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 01:27:18 GMT
Lines: 5

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/buchenwald/images


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Jul 25 12:36:16 PDT 1996
Article: 53140 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!spool.mu.edu!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Holocaust
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4i63p3$l5@axl02it.ntc.nokia.com> <4ss7b4$9o3 <6b4_9607231741@tor250.org> <7187cc$b1531.ff@NEWS>
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 17:12:40 GMT
Lines: 34
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.german:80525 alt.revisionism:53140

georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy) writes:

# Has there been an accurate count of the number?  6,000,000 
# Jews was claimed early, the number sort of picked out of the air.

Sigh. And your evidence that it was "sort of picked out of the air"?

You have absolutely, positively, and totally no idea of how
the figure was arrived at, right?

So why do you claim it was "picked out of the air"?

Do you think it's right to make statements about matters on
which you know nothing whatsoever?

# I have seen the following list:
# 6,000,000    Jews
# 5,000,000    Russians  (non-Jewish)
# 2,000,000    Poles  (non-Jewish)
# 500,000    Gypsies
# 500,000    others.
#
# Is this close to correct?  

Yes.

# It seems to count all deaths in various detention camps.

Not only in the camps. They were not detention camps, BTW.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Jul 25 15:09:03 PDT 1996
Article: 53167 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Photographs from BELSEN Camp
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4t1oaq$711@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com>  <4t4e6p$5gq@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 18:27:52 GMT
Lines: 45

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

## If not, how come there was no starvation among the local
## Germans?

# Your only "evidence" of that is one picture of prostitutes.  

Not prostitutes, but women who were employed by the SS.

Name one SS-man or one SS-woman in the camps who starved
to death. One. 

## And, don't tell me - the Allied fighters also sucked out
## all the water from the river nearby, and that's why the
## inmated were not given any water to drink? Is this what
## you're claiming?

# In fact they bombed the power plant that ran the water 
# pumps for the purification plant.  

You really think these lame-brained excuses are convincing
anyone but nazi-boys?

The Brits set up, very quickly, a system to bring water
into the camp. They used only equipment they found there.

Are you seriously claiming that, for such a long time,
the Nazis couldn't have water brought to the camp?

The Brits used the river's water. They were fit to drink.

The question remains, why, in *all* these camps, not just
Belsen, did so many people die, while either Germans nor
other prisoners - such as Allied POW's - didn't die?

Even Kramer didn't resort to such insane excuses. He said
that he was not allowed to get food from the Whermacht
barracks. 


-Danny Keren.





From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Jul 25 15:15:20 PDT 1996
Article: 53168 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Brack Offers to Kill 'Only' 80% Of Jews, Spare Others for Forced Labor Summary:
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4t1olk$711@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com>  <4t4f0o$o9v@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 18:15:42 GMT
Lines: 34

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# Not ONE person ever found deliberately sterilized by 
# X-Rays by the Nazis.  

Just for the record, how do you know this? I will try
and consult some sources to see if, indeed, no such
person was found.

Considering that the experiments took place in Auschwitz,
it is very possible that no one was found; I don't know,
and I will try to find out.

Moreover, the Nazi doctors arrived at the conclusion
that the method didn't work that well, and that surgical
castration is better.

But this is not the major issue; the major issue is that
a leading Nazi official, Oberfuehrer Victor Brack, asked
that not *all* Jews be killed, but that 20-30 percent will
be spared and used for slave labor, after being sterilized.

This is the main point, and it's a document, which, 
apparently, "revisionists" now acknowledge to fall within 
the realm of physical evidence.

# It is just one more example of zero physical evidence. 

Just as "revisionists" can provide no physical evidence
that Dresden was ever bombed.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Jul 25 20:01:59 PDT 1996
Article: 53205 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!psgrain!iafrica.com!pipex-sa.net!plug.news.pipex.net!pipex!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Photographs from BELSEN Camp
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4t4e6p$5gq@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>  <4t6jrc$im@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 16:55:11 GMT
Lines: 65

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

# When I first asked about this there was a claim there were
# women in the SS. It was explained they were hired low life 
# women from the town and one of the descriptions that was
# given of them was prostitute.  

They were indeed low-life scum, most of them, but they
were not prostitutes, to the best of my knowledge.

## Name one SS-man or one SS-woman in the camps who starved
## to death. One. 

# If that is to be the game, name some inmates who did.  

Bad, bad analogy. None of you nazi-boys denies that the
inmates died, in Belsen alone, by the tens-of-thousands.

Give any evidence whatsoever that one SS-men or SS-woman
died of starvation in any camp.

# It was explained they were hired low life women from the town

They were not from the town; most of them had also been
in Auschwitz, and were transferred to Belsen together with
the SS-men like Kramer, Hoessler, Dr. Klein etc.

## The Brits used the river's water. They were fit to drink.

# And who told you that one?  Or did you make it up yourself?  

It's mentioned in "The Belsen Trial".

# You mean the encyclopedia got the 14,000 wrong?  Were the
# Brits that bad?

The Brits were not bad; these people were in such bad shape that
it was impossible to save them.

The testimony you quote from 1944 is not relevant to the mass
murder that took place in Belsen in 1945.

All your lame-brained excuses cannot cover up the fact that
over 50,000 people died there. 

# You apparently have a very limited knowledge of the subject
# and of the conditions of war in general and this war in particular.

No excuses can cover up for over 50,000 who died there. This is
the bottom line: over 50,000 people, whose only crime was that
they were Jews, died in Belsen, because the Nazis didn't think
it was worthy to waste good food - and water - on them.

There was no such death among the Germans, or among Allied
POW's. They were not regarded as "sub-humans", and so they were
fed and given water to drink.

That's it; that's the story. You can stand on the graves and
make your excuses as long as you want, but the silence of the
dead speaks louder than you.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Jul 26 05:07:54 PDT 1996
Article: 53331 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!psgrain!iafrica.com!pipex-sa.net!plug.news.pipex.net!pipex!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Real mass extermination, this.
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4t6aeh$3r8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 16:39:20 GMT
Lines: 16


mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# Closer to the truth is the Encyclopaedia Judaica, which
# maintains that 37,000 perished in the camp before the
# British takeover, and another 14,000 afterwards. 

Ok. So tell us, why did the 14,000 die?

During what period of time did they die? Days? Weeks? Months?

Go ahead, tell us.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Jul 26 05:07:54 PDT 1996
Article: 53334 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.cloud9.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: auschwitz:myths and facts
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:   <4t4nkl$f45@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> <31F66475.6B68@gryn.org>
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 16:18:42 GMT
Lines: 21


Matt Giwer wrote:

# In the previous post Librarian Keren has posted that EVERYONE
# KNEW about the extermination.  In this post he states that it
# was a secret.  Why is it that no one gives a rat's ass about
# Keren's posts?

If you could read, you would have noticed that Hoessler said
that everyone *in the camp (Auschwitz)* knew about the gas 
chambers.

Not *everyone* in Europe, or in the world.

Since you're unemployed, and, evidently, have a lot of free
time, why don't you go back to school? Second grade may be
a good place to start. 


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Jul 26 05:07:55 PDT 1996
Article: 53337 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.fan.ernst-zundel
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Star Jewish pop. source goes bye, bye
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <31f3cfd4.19888507@news.pacificnet.net> <035314Z24071996@anon.penet.fi> <31f61a8b.2957491@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 00:17:11 GMT
Lines: 28
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:53337 alt.fan.ernst-zundel:1962

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

# The Holocaust dedicated have some things to say about the
# claim that there were 3,000,000+ Polish Jews. For their
# methods of responding to the challenge of these numbers, 
# see alt.revisionism, "3,000,000 Prewar Polish Jews?"  

I have posted the excerpt from Hans Frank's speech, in
which he mentions that, after Poland was under Nazi
control, there were at least 2.5 million Jews in the
"General Government" (part of Nazi-occupied Poland), who
were marked for "annihilation" by the Nazis.

I posted this two times already, as a response to this
thread.

You have proved again, yesterday, that you cannot handle
basic arithmetic (with your claim about the amount of
food near Belsen camp). Apparently, you also cannot read.

I have yet to see a bunch of bloody idiots like you 
"revisionists". To the last, you are a bunch of mentally
retarded imbeciles. This is just incredible; I've never
seen such fools in my life.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Jul 26 05:07:56 PDT 1996
Article: 53347 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: auschwitz:myths and facts
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4t4nkl$f45@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> <4t6icb$a03@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 16:29:12 GMT
Lines: 11

ehrlich606@aol.com (Ehrlich606) writes:

# More than that, this testimony contradicts the testimony
# that Muench gave to Swedish TV decades later.  I am surprised
# at this. 

How does it contradict?


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Jul 27 11:56:56 PDT 1996
Article: 53399 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: auschwitz:myths and facts
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:   <4t4m57$ak3@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 16:36:31 GMT
Lines: 33

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

[Testimony of SS-Unterscharfuehrer Pery Broad, describing
 gassing in Krema I in Auschwitz]

# Pea sized blue granules of wood pulp as the carrier
# used against vermin.  

But the 1933 book by Dr. Gerhard Peters, general manager
of Degesch, shows photographs of the Erco carrier, and
it is indeed composed of small pellets.

Since you're mentally retarded, I thought that reading
may pose too much of a difficulty for you, so I even
scanned the photograph and posted it on the web. 

But even that doesn't help. Nothing helps. You're a lost
case.

As you know well, the Erco carrier is also mentioned in
other documents written at the time, and it is described
as small blue pellets.

We have been through this dozens of times already, yet
you continue with this nonsense.

You are mentally retarded. It's the only conclusion I can
make. There is no way that a normal person wouldn't have
understood such a thing, after so many times.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Jul 27 11:56:57 PDT 1996
Article: 53407 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Khazars
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4t427c$p45@dfw-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com> <4t471a$4to@news.enter.net>
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 17:05:03 GMT
Lines: 18

yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
# mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

## Why would not deny hospitality to a traveler?  Why would not
## not use that as an opportunity to attempt to convert me?  

# Yup.  Nothing like a horseradish sandwich to convince somebody
# to convert.

Not to mention that he'll consume all the wine in Eliyahu's cup!

 :-)


-Danny Keren.





From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Jul 27 11:56:58 PDT 1996
Article: 53408 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Giwer is a moron beyond words... (was McVay, never a Marine...)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4t6hgo$o2u@news.enter.net>
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 17:58:02 GMT
Lines: 23

schwartz@infinet.com writes:

# And honestly, Mr. Giwer, don't you think demeaning comments 
# like "fatbroad" only make you look even more childish and 
# petulant? 

He's mentally retarded. That's what he can do. Call every female
poster here "fatbroad".

His life is a failure; he can still realize this, and it makes
him angry. So, he lashes out in desperation, trying to get
even with the world.

# Why make yourself a laughing stock? Not getting enough at home?

As I recall, he wrote that it was "good" that his second wife
died. Can someone grep for that on this deja-news thing or
whatever? Search for "wife" in his articles?


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Jul 27 11:56:58 PDT 1996
Article: 53451 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!psgrain!iafrica.com!pipex-sa.net!plug.news.pipex.net!pipex!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!nntp.primenet.com!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!newspump.sol.net!news.inc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Flying south for a few days...
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4t0o4c$k45@bell.maths.tcd.ie>  <4t5re9$o89@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <4t75jn$2cd@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 23:33:08 GMT
Lines: 35

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# Another former inmate [of Belsen], Moshe Peer, recalled
# a miraculous escape from death as an eleven-year-old in the
# camp. In a 1993 interview with a Canadian newspaper, the 
# French-born Peer claimed that he "was sent to the [Belsen] 
# camp gas chamber at least six times."

The testimony is, indeed, incorrect. However:

1) He was 11-years-old when the war ended. The testimony of a
   child of that age has much less value than that of an adult.

2) If the fact that such incorrect testimony exists proves that
   the Holocaust is a "hoax", we will also have to conclude that
   the bombing of Dresden is a hoax, as we have totally ridiculous
   "evidence" about it, such as "puddles of melted human flesh,
   4 foot deep", and of people turning into "an undulating layer
   of fine gray ash" (although the fire didn't even touch them),
   etc. 

But you know all this. We've been through it before. This is
an FAQ now; easier, don't have to rewrite every time. There
are, after all, advantages to confronting small minds like
yours; one being their predictability.


-Danny Keren.


-- 
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Jul 27 11:56:59 PDT 1996
Article: 53456 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Moran's Scientific Breakthrough Saves World! (Re: for th
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <31f614a6.1448866@news.pacificnet.net> <4t5qb2$t8c@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 16:27:42 GMT
Lines: 30

ehrlich606@aol.com (Ehrlich606) writes:

# What I don't understand about that is that I have a graph
# of Zyklon out-gassing from the German firm that took over
# the production from Degesch, and it shows a straight 37%
# per half hour outgassing of the remaining volume.  

It's different material. You're talking about something
which is manufactured today. It's not the WW2 Zyklon-B;
we've been through this. Doesn't Germar Rudolph say so
himself?

We have technical material, written by, among others,
Dr. Gerhard Peters, the general manager of Degesch during WW2.

It gives a much faster evaporation rate than 37% per 
half-hour. And it's relevant, because it was written
in the 1930's and 1940's, not 50 years later.

Any special reason that you continue to ignore it?

# Maybe the censors in Germany haven't caught up with it yet.  

It's a pity to see you write stuff like this.

Poste/e-mailed.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Jul 27 11:57:00 PDT 1996
Article: 53467 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.ac.net!news1.erols.com!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp.coast.net!chi-news.cic.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: for the last 4 days, there has been no delivery of food
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:   <838253922snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 23:43:06 GMT
Lines: 37

Alexander Baron  writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com "Daniel Keren" writes:

## Belsen01.jpg: A Mass grave in Belsen camp.
## Belsen02.jpg: A bulldozer being used to bury corpses in Belsen.
## Belsen03.jpg: Emaciated corpses in Belsen.

# A typical Exterminationist tactic is to use the above as 
# "proof" that the Nazis gassed Jews in Auschwitz. 

I never claimed this. The photos do demonstrate, however, 
that the Nazis regarded the inmates as "sub-humans", and did 
not find it necessary to move a finger in order to keep them
alive. They simply let them die.

You sorry clowns can make all the excuses in the world, but
just looking at the photo of the fat SS-women throwing the
skeletal corpses into the mass grave, makes clear what
Nazism, and what the Holocaust, were about.

We can discuss the mass gassing in Auschwitz in a different
thread.

# I've seen many examples of this but unlike Keren I don't
# think with my stomach.

Nor, unfortunately, with any other part of you anatomy.


-Danny Keren.


-- 
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Jul 27 11:57:00 PDT 1996
Article: 53471 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Giwer is a moron beyond words... (was McVay, never a Marine...)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4t6hgo$o2u@news.enter.net> 
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 23:29:56 GMT
Lines: 26

I wrote:

[About Matt Giwer, the 163-IQ man]

# As I recall, he wrote that it was "good" that his 
# second wife died. Can someone grep for that on this 
# deja-news thing or whatever? Search for "wife" in 
# his articles?

Ok, I did it myself. He did write this; more accurately, he
wrote that it was "good to hear" that his second wife died.
He refuses to explain what was so good about it.

This is a very sick person, who has had a very bad life.
He hates everybody, and he's trying to get even with those
he considers to be his enemies.

It's a sad story, but it ain't the fault of Nizkor that
Giwer has had such a terrible life. 

Medical help is what he needs. Not this endless search
for imaginary enemies.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Jul 27 11:57:01 PDT 1996
Article: 53501 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: A Silence You Almost Can Hear
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <838254657snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4t6iob$o2u@news.enter.net>
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 18:02:37 GMT
Lines: 13

Alexander Baron  writes:

[To Yale F. Edeiken]

# It never ceases to amaze me that a piece of Semitic
# slime like you

Have no worry, folks, he'll continue to claim he's not a
racist.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Jul 27 11:57:02 PDT 1996
Article: 53521 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Holocaust
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4i63p3$l5@axl02it.ntc.nokia.com> <7187cc$b1531.ff@NEWS>  <7197cc$102e15.159@NEWS>
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 18:28:44 GMT
Lines: 211
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.german:80625 alt.revisionism:53521

georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy) writes:

[To me]

# So you tell me how it was arrived at.  I believe that I heard 
# the number many decades ago.  It was current when I was 
# at Cornell (Class of 58).  Frankly I do not think there was 
# any accurate count at that time.  

Not accurate to the last person, but accurate on the whole.

# IMHO, it was a guess, 

Most certainly, not a guess. The actual number arrived at by
that time was 5.7 million Jewish victims. Some current estimates
are somewhat lower; the "Institute for Contemporary History"
in Munich gives 5.3 million as a definite lower bound. 

Another point: does one count *all* Jews who died during WW2,
or only those who died directly from Nazi persecution of the
Jews? You see, some Jews died not because they were Jews; this
includes Soviet soldiers and citizens, etc, who were Jewish
and who died in the war and in Soviet cities under Nazi attack.

As I recall, Prof. Hilberg does not count such Jewish victims
as Holocaust victims, which results in his figure being 5.1
million. However, recent findings in the ex-USSR point that
the figure is higher.

# I have heard explanations based on "subtraction" (estimate 
# Jewish population in the effected areas before and after 
# the Nazi era).

That is one method. The other is to add losses in various
camps, and the numbers of those executed by the "Einsatzgruppen"
in Nazi-occupied USSR.

# If you have any source (not just repetition of the number)
# please post it.

See end of article.

# BTW, in my opinion the number is not all that important.  

It's very important.

# Would three million be significantly less horrible than
# six million?

Yes. 


-Danny Keren.


This file contains a short survey on the dimensions of the Holocaust,
published by the Institut Fuer Zeitgeschicthe (Institute for Contemporary 
History) in Munich, Germany, at 1992. 

The Institut Fuer Zeitgeschicthe is considered an authority on this
issue in Germany, and has been used as a source of information on the
Holocaust in various trials of Nazi war criminals there.

Feel free to quote from this letter, under the following conditions:

1) Verbatim quotes only.  
2) The Institut Fuer Zeitgeschicthe has to be cited as the source.

-Daniel Keren (dk@lems.brown.edu).

**********************************************************************
Concerns: The killing of people through gas in the extermination and
concentrations camps under the Nazi power

The systematic murdering of humans through gas during the Nazi rule
was introduced for the first time from January 1940 on in the area of
the "Euthanasia", the extermination of the "lives not worthy to live"
of the handicapped, mental patients and the terminally ill, and from
fall 1941 on was continued to a much larger extent by the pogroms of
the operation groups of the security police and the SD in the seized
eastern areas with the help of mobile gas vans.

Beginning December of 1941 one proceeded in the camp Kulmhof (Polish
Chelmno) to use stationary gas vans for the killing of Jews, and from
the beginning of 1942 in different camps fixed gas chambers were
built, or already existing buildings were restructured for this
purpose.

One needs to differentiate by the furnishing of such gas chambers and
the gassing actions carried out within them between the mass gassings
of Jews in the extermination camps build for that purpose and the
gassings of smaller scale in individual, already existing
concentration camps (whereby patients, seized forced laborers, war
prisoners, and political prisoners among others were also victims)

The following extermination camps existed:


Kulmhof i.e. Chelmno (in the then Wartheland), where between December
1941 and fall 1942 and again from May until August 1944 gassings by
means of carbon monoxide from motor exhaust gas took place. Altogether
more than 150,000 Jews as well as 5000 gypsies have hereby been
killed.


Belzec (in the district Lublin of the then general governments): from
march to December 1942 in the beginning in three, later in six large
gas chambers by means of carbon monoxide from motor exhaust gas
altogether about 600,000 Jews were killed here.


Sobibor (district Lublin, general government) received in April 1942
three, later in September 1942 six gas chambers and until October 1943
it was "in operation". During this period at least 200,000 Jews have
been murdered through carbon monoxide gas.


Treblinka (district Warschau, general government) from the end of July
1942 on had three gas chambers and received at the start of September
1942 furthermore ten larger gas chambers. Up to the dissolution of the
camp in November 1943 altogether 700,000 Jews were killed here by
carbon monoxide.


Majdanek (district Lublin, general government): The concentration camp
existing since September 1941 turned into an extermination camp when
between April 1942 and November 1943 mass shootings took place to
which 24,000 Jews fell victim. In October 1942 also two, later three
gas chambers were built.  In the beginning the killings in these were
done by means of carbon monoxide, soon however one was using Zyklon B
(a highly poisonous insecticide made from cyan hydrogen). Up until the
dissolution of the camp in March 1944 about 50,000 Jews have been
gassed.


Auschwitz-Birkenau (in the formerly polish, in 1939 adjoined to the
"Reich" upper eastern Silesian area, south eastern of Kattowitz): The
extermination camp in Birkenau, established in the second half of
1941, was joined to the concentration camp Auschwitz, existing since
May 1940. From January 1942 on in five gas chambers and from the end
of June 1943 in four additional large gassing-rooms gassings with
Zyklon B have been undertaken. Up until November 1944 more than one
million Jews and at least 4000 gypsies have been murdered by gas.


In the following concentration camps gas chambers were established and
have gone into operation:


Mauthausen (upper Austria): From fall 1941 on one gas chamber existed
which was operated with Zyklon B. In addition, gassings with carbon
monoxide took place through gas vans which were driven between
Mauthausen and it's side-camp Gusen. Altogether more than 4000 have
been killed here through gas.

Neuengamme (southeastern of Hamburg): From fall of 1942 on gassings
with Zyklon B were undertaken here in a "Bunker" prepared for that,
about 450 victims.
 
Sachsenhausen (Province Brandenburg, north of Berlin) received mid
March 1943 a gas chamber which was operated with Zyklon B. Several
thousand people fell victim to the gassings, a more specific number
cannot be determined.

Natzweiler (by Struthof, Elsass): From August 1943 to August 1944 a
gas chamber existed here in which between 120 and 200 people were
killed through Zyklon B in order to be able to dissect their skeletons
for the Anatomica Institute of University of Strassburg.  Back then
this institute was managed by a chief company commander of SS Prof.
Dr. August Hirt.

Stutthof (east of Danzig) had from June 1944 on one gas chamber in
which more than 1000 were killed by Zyklon B.

Ravensbruck (Bradenburg, north of Berlin): Here still in January 1945
a gas chamber was established; the number of the people killed in it
was at least 2300.

Dachau (Upper Bavaria, northeast of Munich): During the establishment
of a new house of cremation in 1942 also a gas chamber was established
in it in which in connection with the medical experiments of the chief
company commander of SS Dr. Rascher also a few experimental gassings
were undertaken, as more recent research has confirmed. (On that see
Gunther Kimmel: The Concentration Camp Dachau. A study of the Nazi
crimes of violence in Bavaria in the NS-time II, edited by Martin
Broszat and Elke Froehlich, Munich, R. Oldenburg Press, 1979, P. 391.)
Larger gassing operations have not taken place in Dachau.



The victims of the operation groups of the security service and the SD
behind the German frontier in the Russia-campaign were to the by far
largest part Jews. Their number is estimated to be at least 900,000.

The difference between the total of the victims of the gassings cited
in the above mentioned composition and the number of victims of the
operation groups and the total of roughly 6 million victims of the
Nazi persecution of the Jews results from the fact that a very high
percentage of the victims have lost their lives through indirect
extermination actions such as the method "destruction through work",
bad treatment, under nourishment, epidemics, exhaustion during forced
transportations etc.

About 120,000 people were killed through the Nazi
"Euthanasia"-actions.








From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Jul 27 11:57:02 PDT 1996
Article: 53522 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Flying south for a few days...
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4t0o4c$k45@bell.maths.tcd.ie> <4t75jn$2cd@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>  <4t9rgo$j1b@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 18:43:22 GMT
Lines: 30

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

[About Peer's testimony]

## The testimony is, indeed, incorrect. However:
##
## 1) He was 11-years-old when the war ended. The testimony of a
##  child of that age has much less value than that of an adult.

# Elie Wiesel is of cours unreliable.  

I recall he was 15 when the war ended. But, I agree, that
also the testimony of a 15-year-old is, on the average, less
reliable than that of an adult.

# But of course it is testimony llike that which constitutes
# the only basis for the gassing stories.  

No, most testimony is not like this. Moreover, it is definitely
not the "only basis".

The point about the insane "testimonies" about Dresden's
bombing is that one can have untrue testimonies about true
events.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Jul 27 11:57:03 PDT 1996
Article: 53565 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.tufts.edu!blanket.mitre.org!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Post your forensic studies here
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4seelj$ff@d31sg0.Stanford.EDU> <4sn0ql$57a@d31sg0.Stanford.EDU> <31f0ccc5.321695@news.pacificnet.net> <4sr7ij$89m@d31sg0.Stanford.EDU>
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 20:02:26 GMT
Lines: 20


tom moran  wrote:

# There are no extant ruins associated with any Cremas III, 
# IV and V. If there are any ruins at all, they have never 
# been, or will they ever be presented, via photographs, 
# in the Holocaust promotional sales package.

More rubbish from Tom Moran, who yet again proves he has
absolutely, totally, and completely no idea what he's
talking about.

There are most certainly ruins associated with these
Kremas, and samples can be taken from them. Heck, even
our "revisionist" loonies took samples from these ruins,
but Moran doesn't even seem to know this.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Jul 27 11:57:04 PDT 1996
Article: 53580 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Numbers Racket one day, next day boolean
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <31f79659.9129523@news.pacificnet.net> <25JUL199622415813@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu>
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 20:17:31 GMT
Lines: 19

dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) writes:

[To Tom Moran]

# If you find boolean logic terrifying you might consider
# making an appointment with Dr. Keren for some therapy.  

Now, what have I ever done to you? 

 :-)


-Danny Keren.


-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Jul 27 11:57:04 PDT 1996
Article: 53589 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.alt.net!news1.alt.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!hunter.premier.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Photographs from BELSEN Camp
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4t4e6p$5gq@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>  <838312498snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 16:57:31 GMT
Lines: 44

Alexander Baron  writes:

# Schmitz, alias Schmeditz - a former prisoner who ended up
# in the dock by mistake and was acquitted - said in his 
# testimony that at least one lorry load of bread had not 
# been permitted in because of the typhus. 

There was plenty of food for everybody, except the inmates.

Look at the photo of these fat SS-women, throwing the skeletal 
corpses into the mass grave. They didn't have any bread to 
eat, right?

Damn you and damn your excuses for this mass murder of
innocent people. You are disgusting.

# You are also
# forgetting - wilfully - that countless thousands were 
# being sent to the camp, many of them arriving dead, and 
# that Kramer had tried to shut it but had been ordered to 
# keep it open. After the British arrived Kramer was still too
# afraid to do anything without express authority from Berlin.

All this is bloody rubbish.

There were about 230,000 British and American POW's captured
by the Germans, during WW2. About 8,000 of them died, during
the entire war. 

In Belsen alone, more than 50,000 inmates died.

All the lame-brained excuses put forth by Nazi-apologists
cannot cover this up: those who the Nazis considered human
beings, survived. Those who were not considered human beings,
did not survive. They were not given food. They were not
given water. They were starved or put to death by other means.

And don't start again with "the water pump broke down". Don't
attempt to insult the intelligence of the readers of this
group even more than you have so far.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Jul 27 11:57:05 PDT 1996
Article: 53596 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Moran's Scientific Breakthrough Saves World! (Re: for th
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <31f614a6.1448866@news.pacificnet.net> <4t5qb2$t8c@newsbf02.news.aol.com>  <4t94qr$mok@dfw-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 17:50:08 GMT
Lines: 30

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# It is good see physical law was different in those years.

They were not different. But different carriers release the
HCN at different speeds. The speed also depends on the
thickness of the carrier.

# Perhaps when there a translation of the complete document 
# available there will be something to ignore.  

The relevant part was translated. It states that after an 
hour, or at most two, there was no detectable residue of HCN 
in the carrier, and this at very low temperatures.

Which proves you erred by a factor of 16 when estimating
the evaporation rate.

It's on dejanews, you know. Want me to repost it?

Tom Moran, at least, was honest enough to admit that he 
doesn't have a clue as to what the time frame for 
outgassing is; he said it could be hours, but also months.

But you know all this. I posted this dozens of time. You're 
simply trying to wear me out. Very clever.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Jul 27 11:57:06 PDT 1996
Article: 53612 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: CODOH (Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust) is alive & well with VITRUAL DOMAIN!
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4rfdaf$io3@tribune.concentric.net> <4sscj0$t1p@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom  <31f73e4a.366514@nntp.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 18:54:09 GMT
Lines: 33
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:37277 alt.politics.nationalism.white:26250 alt.revisionism:53612 alt.skinheads:32999


ursus_m@ix.netcom.com (Ursus Major) writes:

# Chemical analysis totally vindicates the Leutner Report!

a) the name's Leuchter, not Leutner.

b) He's a stupid little liar, who was taken to court in the
   US for falsely presenting himself as an engineer, while
   he only has a BA in the Arts. His "report" is such a 
   piece of dreck that even "revisionists" have given up
   on it.

c) Chemical analysis only reaffirmed the facts of the 
   Holocaust, as it proved that there are cyanide traces
   in the Auschwitz-Birkenau gas chambers.

# Articles in English, French, Italian, Spanish, Swedish, 
# German, and Norweign make CODOH truly the uncensored 
# International Forum for open debate on what some call 
# "The Hoax of the 20th Century"!

Translation does not make lies and nonsense written by
dumb Nazis any better.

# "Ursus Major"

"Anus Mundi" would be more like it.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Jul 27 11:57:07 PDT 1996
Article: 53624 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.reed.edu!camelot.ccs.neu.edu!nntp.neu.edu!grapevine.lcs.mit.edu!bone.think.com!blanket.mitre.org!agate!newsgate.duke.edu!zombie.ncsc.mil!nntp.coast.net!chi-news.cic.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.texas.net!news1.best.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Photographs from BELSEN Camp
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4t6jrc$im@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com>  <4t8uvm$rcd@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 17:16:31 GMT
Lines: 45

As I said in a previous article, our Nazi-lovers still have
to explain how come all these unfortunate "accidents" - the 
water pump breaking down, the transportation breaking down, 
bla-bla, all happened only in the concentration camps.

A few numbers tell the story.

The Germans captured 230,000 British and American POW's during
WW2; about 8,000 of them died. Presumably, some were captured
after already being injured, and some were executed for trying
to escape. That means that no more than 3 percent or so died
>from  hard conditions, lack of food, water pumps breaking down,
and other reasons of this kind.

In Belsen alone - one camp, with far less than 230,000 inmates,
over 50,000 died. It is true that many died after the liberation,
but this was only because they were already dying when the
camp was liberated.

Moreover, this mass death from starvation began long before
the war ended; a document which even our "revisionist scholars"
agree is genuine, states that during the second half of 1942,
80,000 out of 130,000 inmates transported to various 
"concentration camps" died. Note that these were not
death camps, but so-called "work camps"! Nontheless, there
was a tremendous death rate.

Our Nazi-lovers cannot give evidence of *one* SS-man or woman, 
nor of any German soldier, who starved to death in the camps.

There is no amount of hand-waving and lame-brained excuse
forwarding by the Nazi lovers which can hide the truth.

The truth is that those who were considered by the Nazis to be
human beings, survived. Those who were not, died, or were saved
because the war ended. Some, of course, died from disease; they
were starved to such an extent and kept in such conditions
that they couldn't resist typhus and other disease.

That's the story. Mass murder of innocent people by the Nazis,
because they were classified as "sub-humans". No more, no less.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Jul 27 11:57:07 PDT 1996
Article: 53639 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!mr.net!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: McFlea
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4t25lq$gs4@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com> <4t3099$r83@lendl.cc.emory.edu> <4tadus$oss@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 20:32:17 GMT
Lines: 21

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

[About him erring, by a factor of about 100, the amount
 of food necessary to keep people alive]

# Moran's calculations took into consideration, the
# Mercurian year and feeding dwarfs.

Heck, I thought he was using one of these Pentium 90 
processors :-).

But, really, it's nice when a person can admit to his
incapabilities. Score one for Moran.


-Danny Keren.

-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Jul 27 11:57:08 PDT 1996
Article: 53679 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.reed.edu!camelot.ccs.neu.edu!nntp.neu.edu!grapevine.lcs.mit.edu!bone.think.com!blanket.mitre.org!agate!newsgate.duke.edu!zombie.ncsc.mil!nntp.coast.net!chi-news.cic.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.texas.net!news1.best.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: auschwitz:myths and facts
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4t4m57$ak3@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>  <4t92ab$9o5@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 18:01:15 GMT
Lines: 21

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

## But the 1933 book by Dr. Gerhard Peters, general manager
## of Degesch, shows photographs of the Erco carrier, and
## it is indeed composed of small pellets.

# It does not matter.  We have a specific reference to the
# specific type that is supposed to have been used.  

And we have a specific reference, plus a photograph, of the
Erco carrier.

It existed. Do us a favor, don't claim it didn't.

Why do you think it was manufactured?


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Jul 27 11:57:09 PDT 1996
Article: 53699 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.reed.edu!camelot.ccs.neu.edu!nntp.neu.edu!grapevine.lcs.mit.edu!bone.think.com!blanket.mitre.org!agate!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!portc01.blue.aol.com!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: auschwitz:myths and facts
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <31F66475.6B68@gryn.org>  <4t92d2$9o5@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 18:35:34 GMT
Lines: 33

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

## If you could read, you would have noticed that Hoessler said
## that everyone *in the camp (Auschwitz)* knew about the gas 
## chambers.
##
## Not *everyone* in Europe, or in the world.

# I was referring to the camp.  As you know there are plenty
# of claims from people who were at Auschwitz they never heard
# of such a thing.  

I am not aware of this. There may have been a few, who were
there for a very short time, or during the end of the war, who
said they didn't know of the gas chambers.

Can you post plenty such claims? 

# You have certainly posted more than a few of them.  

Not a single one, as I recall.

You're saying I posted this, you better present my articles.

If not, you're lying and slandering.

Post these articles, or retract your claim.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Jul 27 11:57:10 PDT 1996
Article: 53705 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The THE himself
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4ssdcq$9gu@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com> <4t4h34$63r@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> <4t8c11$e9u@bell.maths.tcd.ie> <4t910c$sk3@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 19:11:06 GMT
Lines: 35

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# Another former inmate [of Belsen], Moshe Peer, recalled
# a miraculous escape from death as an eleven-year-old in the
# camp. In a 1993 interview with a Canadian newspaper, the 
# French-born Peer claimed that he "was sent to the [Belsen] 
# camp gas chamber at least six times."

The testimony is, indeed, incorrect. However:

1) He was 11-years-old when the war ended. The testimony of a
   child of that age has much less value than that of an adult.

2) If the fact that such incorrect testimony exists proves that
   the Holocaust is a "hoax", we will also have to conclude that
   the bombing of Dresden is a hoax, as we have totally ridiculous
   "evidence" about it, such as "puddles of melted human flesh,
   4 foot deep", and of people turning into "an undulating layer
   of fine gray ash" (although the fire didn't even touch them),
   etc. 

But you know all this. We've been through it before. This is
an FAQ now; easier, don't have to rewrite every time. There
are, after all, advantages to confronting small minds like
yours; one being their predictability.


-Danny Keren.


-- 
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Jul 27 11:57:10 PDT 1996
Article: 53707 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.cloud9.net!news.stealth.net!demos!news1.relcom.ru!EU.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!mr.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The latest hysterical eyewitness testimony
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4t71sr$lm1@dfw-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 23:31:38 GMT
Lines: 35

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# Another former inmate [of Belsen], Moshe Peer, recalled
# a miraculous escape from death as an eleven-year-old in the
# camp. In a 1993 interview with a Canadian newspaper, the 
# French-born Peer claimed that he "was sent to the [Belsen] 
# camp gas chamber at least six times."

The testimony is, indeed, incorrect. However:

1) He was 11-years-old when the war ended. The testimony of a
   child of that age has much less value than that of an adult.

2) If the fact that such incorrect testimony exists proves that
   the Holocaust is a "hoax", we will also have to conclude that
   the bombing of Dresden is a hoax, as we have totally ridiculous
   "evidence" about it, such as "puddles of melted human flesh,
   4 foot deep", and of people turning into "an undulating layer
   of fine gray ash" (although the fire didn't even touch them),
   etc. 

But you know all this. We've been through it before. This is
an FAQ now; easier, don't have to rewrite every time. There
are, after all, advantages to confronting small minds like
yours; one being their predictability.


-Danny Keren.


-- 
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Jul 27 11:57:11 PDT 1996
Article: 53732 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!overload.lbl.gov!agate!newsgate.duke.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!newsflash.concordia.ca!news.nstn.ca!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!news.inforamp.net!winternet.com!mr.net!news.mid.net!newsfeeder.gi.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: for the last 4 days, there has been no delivery of food
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <838253922snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>  <4t9da3$g0u@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 18:14:11 GMT
Lines: 28

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# Quite strange that Himmler would give a "spare no 
# effort" order to save them when he heard of the epidemics 
# if he considered them "sub-human."

Himmler definitely regarded the Jews, and the Slavs too,
as "sub-human". Nizkor actually has now as a recording of 
the part of his Posen speech, in which he declares that 
the Slavs are "human animals" to be used for forced labor,
regardless if it kills them (including women and children)
in the process.

Funny thing, you know, if it were not for the Nazi-loving
pieces of "revisionist" filth, there would probably be
no Nizkor, and no such easily accessible, hard-core
documentation of Nazi barbarism. Makes you think, right?
(Well, not you, but in general it makes people think).

The truth is usually more complicated than what you can
understand. It does seem that, towards the very end of the
war, Himmler was trying to save his fat little neck; he
knew very well what awaited him when the war was over, and 
he made a last minute effort to stop the killing. Too late.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Jul 27 11:57:12 PDT 1996
Article: 53734 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!overload.lbl.gov!agate!newsgate.duke.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!newsflash.concordia.ca!news.nstn.ca!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!news1.hotstar.net!winternet.com!mr.net!news.mid.net!newsfeeder.gi.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism (was :Re: German hegemony )
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4t31ln$nqp@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU> <4t85go$oln@access5.digex.net> <4t8oag$9gd@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 18:30:39 GMT
Lines: 19


mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

##  That is exactly what I meant, yes - the lachrymogen 
## used as an indicator to warn people to clear the area in 
## case of a leak, not a humidity indicator.

# And don't forget that Keren swears it caused a 
# hacking cough also.

I never posted any such thing.

It's ok. I'm not angry. You have problems. We know.


-Danny Keren.





From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Jul 27 12:51:13 PDT 1996
Article: 1962 of alt.fan.ernst-zundel
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.fan.ernst-zundel
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Star Jewish pop. source goes bye, bye
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <31f3cfd4.19888507@news.pacificnet.net> <035314Z24071996@anon.penet.fi> <31f61a8b.2957491@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 00:17:11 GMT
Lines: 28
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:53337 alt.fan.ernst-zundel:1962

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

# The Holocaust dedicated have some things to say about the
# claim that there were 3,000,000+ Polish Jews. For their
# methods of responding to the challenge of these numbers, 
# see alt.revisionism, "3,000,000 Prewar Polish Jews?"  

I have posted the excerpt from Hans Frank's speech, in
which he mentions that, after Poland was under Nazi
control, there were at least 2.5 million Jews in the
"General Government" (part of Nazi-occupied Poland), who
were marked for "annihilation" by the Nazis.

I posted this two times already, as a response to this
thread.

You have proved again, yesterday, that you cannot handle
basic arithmetic (with your claim about the amount of
food near Belsen camp). Apparently, you also cannot read.

I have yet to see a bunch of bloody idiots like you 
"revisionists". To the last, you are a bunch of mentally
retarded imbeciles. This is just incredible; I've never
seen such fools in my life.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Jul 27 12:57:51 PDT 1996
Article: 80625 of soc.culture.german
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!mr.net!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Holocaust
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4i63p3$l5@axl02it.ntc.nokia.com> <7187cc$b1531.ff@NEWS>  <7197cc$102e15.159@NEWS>
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 18:28:44 GMT
Lines: 211
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.german:80625 alt.revisionism:53521

georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy) writes:

[To me]

# So you tell me how it was arrived at.  I believe that I heard 
# the number many decades ago.  It was current when I was 
# at Cornell (Class of 58).  Frankly I do not think there was 
# any accurate count at that time.  

Not accurate to the last person, but accurate on the whole.

# IMHO, it was a guess, 

Most certainly, not a guess. The actual number arrived at by
that time was 5.7 million Jewish victims. Some current estimates
are somewhat lower; the "Institute for Contemporary History"
in Munich gives 5.3 million as a definite lower bound. 

Another point: does one count *all* Jews who died during WW2,
or only those who died directly from Nazi persecution of the
Jews? You see, some Jews died not because they were Jews; this
includes Soviet soldiers and citizens, etc, who were Jewish
and who died in the war and in Soviet cities under Nazi attack.

As I recall, Prof. Hilberg does not count such Jewish victims
as Holocaust victims, which results in his figure being 5.1
million. However, recent findings in the ex-USSR point that
the figure is higher.

# I have heard explanations based on "subtraction" (estimate 
# Jewish population in the effected areas before and after 
# the Nazi era).

That is one method. The other is to add losses in various
camps, and the numbers of those executed by the "Einsatzgruppen"
in Nazi-occupied USSR.

# If you have any source (not just repetition of the number)
# please post it.

See end of article.

# BTW, in my opinion the number is not all that important.  

It's very important.

# Would three million be significantly less horrible than
# six million?

Yes. 


-Danny Keren.


This file contains a short survey on the dimensions of the Holocaust,
published by the Institut Fuer Zeitgeschicthe (Institute for Contemporary 
History) in Munich, Germany, at 1992. 

The Institut Fuer Zeitgeschicthe is considered an authority on this
issue in Germany, and has been used as a source of information on the
Holocaust in various trials of Nazi war criminals there.

Feel free to quote from this letter, under the following conditions:

1) Verbatim quotes only.  
2) The Institut Fuer Zeitgeschicthe has to be cited as the source.

-Daniel Keren (dk@lems.brown.edu).

**********************************************************************
Concerns: The killing of people through gas in the extermination and
concentrations camps under the Nazi power

The systematic murdering of humans through gas during the Nazi rule
was introduced for the first time from January 1940 on in the area of
the "Euthanasia", the extermination of the "lives not worthy to live"
of the handicapped, mental patients and the terminally ill, and from
fall 1941 on was continued to a much larger extent by the pogroms of
the operation groups of the security police and the SD in the seized
eastern areas with the help of mobile gas vans.

Beginning December of 1941 one proceeded in the camp Kulmhof (Polish
Chelmno) to use stationary gas vans for the killing of Jews, and from
the beginning of 1942 in different camps fixed gas chambers were
built, or already existing buildings were restructured for this
purpose.

One needs to differentiate by the furnishing of such gas chambers and
the gassing actions carried out within them between the mass gassings
of Jews in the extermination camps build for that purpose and the
gassings of smaller scale in individual, already existing
concentration camps (whereby patients, seized forced laborers, war
prisoners, and political prisoners among others were also victims)

The following extermination camps existed:


Kulmhof i.e. Chelmno (in the then Wartheland), where between December
1941 and fall 1942 and again from May until August 1944 gassings by
means of carbon monoxide from motor exhaust gas took place. Altogether
more than 150,000 Jews as well as 5000 gypsies have hereby been
killed.


Belzec (in the district Lublin of the then general governments): from
march to December 1942 in the beginning in three, later in six large
gas chambers by means of carbon monoxide from motor exhaust gas
altogether about 600,000 Jews were killed here.


Sobibor (district Lublin, general government) received in April 1942
three, later in September 1942 six gas chambers and until October 1943
it was "in operation". During this period at least 200,000 Jews have
been murdered through carbon monoxide gas.


Treblinka (district Warschau, general government) from the end of July
1942 on had three gas chambers and received at the start of September
1942 furthermore ten larger gas chambers. Up to the dissolution of the
camp in November 1943 altogether 700,000 Jews were killed here by
carbon monoxide.


Majdanek (district Lublin, general government): The concentration camp
existing since September 1941 turned into an extermination camp when
between April 1942 and November 1943 mass shootings took place to
which 24,000 Jews fell victim. In October 1942 also two, later three
gas chambers were built.  In the beginning the killings in these were
done by means of carbon monoxide, soon however one was using Zyklon B
(a highly poisonous insecticide made from cyan hydrogen). Up until the
dissolution of the camp in March 1944 about 50,000 Jews have been
gassed.


Auschwitz-Birkenau (in the formerly polish, in 1939 adjoined to the
"Reich" upper eastern Silesian area, south eastern of Kattowitz): The
extermination camp in Birkenau, established in the second half of
1941, was joined to the concentration camp Auschwitz, existing since
May 1940. From January 1942 on in five gas chambers and from the end
of June 1943 in four additional large gassing-rooms gassings with
Zyklon B have been undertaken. Up until November 1944 more than one
million Jews and at least 4000 gypsies have been murdered by gas.


In the following concentration camps gas chambers were established and
have gone into operation:


Mauthausen (upper Austria): From fall 1941 on one gas chamber existed
which was operated with Zyklon B. In addition, gassings with carbon
monoxide took place through gas vans which were driven between
Mauthausen and it's side-camp Gusen. Altogether more than 4000 have
been killed here through gas.

Neuengamme (southeastern of Hamburg): From fall of 1942 on gassings
with Zyklon B were undertaken here in a "Bunker" prepared for that,
about 450 victims.
 
Sachsenhausen (Province Brandenburg, north of Berlin) received mid
March 1943 a gas chamber which was operated with Zyklon B. Several
thousand people fell victim to the gassings, a more specific number
cannot be determined.

Natzweiler (by Struthof, Elsass): From August 1943 to August 1944 a
gas chamber existed here in which between 120 and 200 people were
killed through Zyklon B in order to be able to dissect their skeletons
for the Anatomica Institute of University of Strassburg.  Back then
this institute was managed by a chief company commander of SS Prof.
Dr. August Hirt.

Stutthof (east of Danzig) had from June 1944 on one gas chamber in
which more than 1000 were killed by Zyklon B.

Ravensbruck (Bradenburg, north of Berlin): Here still in January 1945
a gas chamber was established; the number of the people killed in it
was at least 2300.

Dachau (Upper Bavaria, northeast of Munich): During the establishment
of a new house of cremation in 1942 also a gas chamber was established
in it in which in connection with the medical experiments of the chief
company commander of SS Dr. Rascher also a few experimental gassings
were undertaken, as more recent research has confirmed. (On that see
Gunther Kimmel: The Concentration Camp Dachau. A study of the Nazi
crimes of violence in Bavaria in the NS-time II, edited by Martin
Broszat and Elke Froehlich, Munich, R. Oldenburg Press, 1979, P. 391.)
Larger gassing operations have not taken place in Dachau.



The victims of the operation groups of the security service and the SD
behind the German frontier in the Russia-campaign were to the by far
largest part Jews. Their number is estimated to be at least 900,000.

The difference between the total of the victims of the gassings cited
in the above mentioned composition and the number of victims of the
operation groups and the total of roughly 6 million victims of the
Nazi persecution of the Jews results from the fact that a very high
percentage of the victims have lost their lives through indirect
extermination actions such as the method "destruction through work",
bad treatment, under nourishment, epidemics, exhaustion during forced
transportations etc.

About 120,000 people were killed through the Nazi
"Euthanasia"-actions.








From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Jul 28 07:10:23 PDT 1996
Article: 53786 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Post your forensic studies here
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4t4aa6$2nc@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> <4t5grs$pou@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <31f776e0.1073344@news.pacificnet.net> <31f77aff.2127794@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 18:57:38 GMT
Lines: 41

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

# Since using Zyklon B under these circumstances 
# still only used 15% or less of the HCN content, 
# leaving the other 85% or more as wasted, un-necessary, 
# complicating the ventilation process and removal
# of bodies, we wonder why the Germans wouldn't have 
# used the hot air introduction over the Zyklon B pellets 
# to ease this inefficiency.

But it has been explained to you, over and over again, that what
you write above is a lie. The HCN evaporates much faster than what
you claim. You admit you have no technical source to support your
claims re the evaporation rate; you *were* presented with technical
material, written by Dr. Gerhard Peters and others, which proves
you're lying.

What do you hope to accomplish, by reposting your lies over and
over again?

A short time ago, you wrote about the outgassing time of HCN from
Zyklon:

# Maybe it is six hours. Maybe it could be days or even months.

You simply have no idea what you're talking about. Look at the
above. A range given from "six hours" to "months". 

Moreover, if there was some HCN residue in the Zyklon when the
victims died, it was rather easy to handle: the sonderkommando
used gas masks in some of the gas chambers, while in others a
very simple mechanism was used, which allowed to extract the
Zyklon from the chambers after the victims died, thus solving
the alleged "problem" of dealing with the HCN the Zyklon may
have continued to release.

Can you *really* not understand all this? After so many times?


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Jul 28 07:10:23 PDT 1996
Article: 53798 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Post your forensic studies here
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4t4aa6$2nc@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> <31f77aff.2127794@news.pacificnet.net>  <31fa12fa.88374@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 22:26:40 GMT
Lines: 76

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

# This drives Keren crazy. He's the one who posted the
# evaporation rates I used. When he responds to this he
# always says something like, "The HCN evaporates much
# faster than what you claim", as he has done here. Has 
# he ever come back with anything quantitative? No.

To repeat:

The material from Dr. Peters' book - including the
mention, with a photograph, of the Erco carrier, which our
mentally retarded Nazis claim didn't exist - is in

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz/cyanide/zyklon/images

peters-03.jpg (ref)
peters-04.jpg (ref)
peters-58.jpg (ref)
peters-59.jpg (ref)
peters-60.jpg (ref)                      
peters-61.jpg (ref)                      
peters-62.jpg (ref)                      
peters-63.jpg (ref) 
peters-64.jpg (ref) 
peters-65.jpg (ref)      

The material from the Peters-Rach paper, which discusses the
outgassing time of the HCN (which our mentally retarded Nazis
over-estimated by a factor of 16) is in the same directory:

peters-rasch-132.jpg (ref)
peters-rasch-133.jpg (ref)
peters-rasch-134.jpg (ref)
peters-rasch-135.jpg (ref)
peters-rasch-136.jpg (ref)
peters-rasch-137.jpg (ref)

# Mr. Keren says he has cited Dr.Gerhard Peters "and others" to
# prove the "lies". Does he direct anyone to the material? No. 
# Does he include it here? No.

To repeat:

The material from Dr. Peters' book - including the
mention, with a photograph, of the Erco carrier, which our
mentally retarded Nazis claim didn't exist - is in

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz/cyanide/zyklon/images

peters-03.jpg (ref)
peters-04.jpg (ref)
peters-58.jpg (ref)
peters-59.jpg (ref)
peters-60.jpg (ref)                      
peters-61.jpg (ref)                      
peters-62.jpg (ref)                      
peters-63.jpg (ref) 
peters-64.jpg (ref) 
peters-65.jpg (ref)      

The material from the Peters-Rach paper, which discusses the
outgassing time of the HCN (which our mentally retarded Nazis
over-estimated by a factor of 16) is in the same directory:

peters-rasch-132.jpg (ref)
peters-rasch-133.jpg (ref)
peters-rasch-134.jpg (ref)
peters-rasch-135.jpg (ref)
peters-rasch-136.jpg (ref)
peters-rasch-137.jpg (ref)


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Jul 28 07:10:24 PDT 1996
Article: 53810 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: 'Holocaust Revisionism' Nonsense (Re: Noah & other bible myths)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4s9otl$1pt@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com> <4t6903$hgp@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com> <4t96re$2ns@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU> <4tbdqv$ibh@metroux.metrobbs.com>
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 20:56:12 GMT
Lines: 26

goth@big10.metrobbs.com (paul goddard) writes:

# You gave your interpretation of what was written. 

Sigh. These people are simply incredible.

The text in one of the documents I quoted mentions over
360,000 Jews who were executed during four months in 1942.

See 

http://www.nizkor.org/

ftp.cgi?orgs/german/einsatzgruppen/images/Report01.jpg

What does my interpretation have to do with it?

# But the reality is that the final solution reffered to
# deporting the Jews out of Germany.

Why were more than 360,000 executed during four months in 1942?


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Jul 28 07:10:25 PDT 1996
Article: 53813 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4i63p3$l5@axl02it.ntc.nokia.com>   
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 21:26:19 GMT
Lines: 23
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.german:80759 alt.revisionism:53813

olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg) writes:
# , Daniel Keren wrote:

## And "revisionists" spit on their graves.

# But there are no graves to spit on literally. Even 
# according to the established historiography all the 
# ashes from the alleged corpses have disappeared.

Even this is a lie; there are numerous human remains,
including ashes, in some of the camps, as Treblinka
and Maidanek.

## And we have the right to think that you are a 
## revolting person.

# Gee !  Dear me!

Dear me, indeed. 


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Jul 28 07:10:25 PDT 1996
Article: 53816 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.texas.net!cdc2.cdc.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Moran's Scientific Breakthrough Saves World! (Re: for th
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <31f614a6.1448866@news.pacificnet.net>  <4tcs0j$l5n@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com> <31fa164d.938668@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 21:18:21 GMT
Lines: 57

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

# Oh, I see your having the same problem with Keren over
# here as to these referred to reports, patents and manuals
# that he keeps alluding to without actually posting the
# stuff itself.

The material from Dr. Peters' book - including the
mention, with a photograph, of the Erco carrier, which our
mentally retarded Nazis claim didn't exist - is in

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz/cyanide/zyklon/images

peters-03.jpg (ref)
peters-04.jpg (ref)
peters-58.jpg (ref)
peters-59.jpg (ref)
peters-60.jpg (ref)                      
peters-61.jpg (ref)                      
peters-62.jpg (ref)                      
peters-63.jpg (ref) 
peters-64.jpg (ref) 
peters-65.jpg (ref)      

The material from the Peters-Rach paper, which discusses the
outgassing time of the HCN (which our mentally retarded Nazis
over-estimated by a factor of 16) is in the same directory:

peters-rasch-132.jpg (ref)
peters-rasch-133.jpg (ref)
peters-rasch-134.jpg (ref)
peters-rasch-135.jpg (ref)
peters-rasch-136.jpg (ref)
peters-rasch-137.jpg (ref)

The Topf patent - which refutes other rubbish put forward by
our mentally retarded Nazis - is in

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?orgs/german/topf-und-soehne/images

tp4907-lrg-1b.gif (ref)
tp4907-lrg-2.gif (ref) 
tp4907-lrg-3.gif (ref) 

The connection's pretty fast now; I just tried it and it's about
8K per second.

I thank Dr. Ulrich Roessler for sending me Dr. Peter's book
and the Peters-Rach paper, and the German Patent Office for
sending me, upon my request, the Topf patent. I also thank
Jamie McCarthy for his help in organizing the material on
the Nizkor web site.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Jul 28 07:10:26 PDT 1996
Article: 53834 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.christnet,alt.religion.christian,alt.bible.prophecy
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Luther and the Jews Part 1
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4s9otl$1pt@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com> <4t8q77$reb@metroux.metrobbs.com>  <31FA8259.1F50@mail.gte.net>
Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 00:58:28 GMT
Lines: 18
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:53834 alt.christnet:85047 alt.religion.christian:104799 alt.bible.prophecy:1918

[Followup = alt.revisionism]

bud  writes:

# Understand that I wanted to avoid beginning this, but since
# Mr. Keren and others are now obviously beginning to attempt
# to bring this issue into the Christian Newsgroup

I can't speak for the others, but I am always setting the
followup to alt.revisionism, and out of the Christian 
Newsgroup.


-Danny Keren.






From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Jul 28 07:10:27 PDT 1996
Article: 53848 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.wildstar.net!cancer.vividnet.com!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!agate!info.ucla.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4i63p3$l5@axl02it.ntc.nokia.com>  <4tajct$ljp@hades.rz.uni-sb.de> 
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 23:55:12 GMT
Lines: 74
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.german:80776 alt.revisionism:53848

[Followup = alt.revisionism]

olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg) writes:

# Why did the nazis chose Zyklon B for the killing of
# humans in the concentration camps? 

Because it was simple and cheap. Two very good reasons.

# Why didn't they chose sodium-cyanid crystals poured 
# down in sulphuric acid like they have done in execution
# gaschambers in the USA since the twenties and still do 
# today? 

Why bother? There was plenty of Zyklon-B around, and simply
throwing it into the chambers, via the openings, was good enough.

Why bother with a more complicated procedure?

# In this case they could have saved themselves all the
# trouble of inventing fancyfull "wiremesh columns". 

Are you quoting Giwer's rubbish now? 

The wiremesh columns were a very simple, very cheap thing
to build. 

# The temperature of the gas chambers would not have been
# so important 

It was not that important anyway; the Zyklon evaporates rather
quickly in low temperatures. See

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz/cyanide/zyklon/images

(the material from the Peters-Rach paper, which discusses the
outgassing time of the HCN).

peters-rasch-132.jpg (ref)
peters-rasch-133.jpg (ref)
peters-rasch-134.jpg (ref)
peters-rasch-135.jpg (ref)
peters-rasch-136.jpg (ref)
peters-rasch-137.jpg (ref)

# and there would not have been any danger of unevaporated HCN
# when removing the alleged corpses. 

No big problem. It was overcome by using gas masks or by
removing the Zyklon via the same device used to introduce
it into the chambers (this, at Kremas II and III). 

# Furthermore it would have been much cheaper. 

Prove it. Zyklon-B was manufactured in huge quantities before
and during the war. If what you say about its cost was true,
it would also have been too expensive to use as a fumigant.

Moreover, a rather small amount is needed to kill many people.
A few small cans suffice to kill thousands of people. And we
know that many tons of Zyklon were manufactured on a continuous
basis.

You have no idea what you're babbling about. Why you don't
just stick to your plans to "cleanse" Denmark... or maybe 
you want to tell us again about corpses "violently exploding" 
in crematorium furnaces? 


-Danny Keren.






From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Jul 28 07:44:10 PDT 1996
Article: 64824 of soc.culture.jewish
Newsgroups: soc.culture.israel,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.palestine,talk.politics.mideast
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.wildstar.net!serv.hinet.net!news.uoregon.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!chi-news.cic.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: THERE ARE NO INNOCENT ARABS (more nonsense from Brendan Mckay)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4sbbh1$rmf$1@mhafc.production.compuserve.com>  <31F5B8C2.6A6A@cs.anu.edu.au> 
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 21:16:43 GMT
Lines: 21
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.israel:39811 soc.culture.jewish:64824 soc.culture.palestine:18193 talk.politics.mideast:76581

jkorn@bbn.com (Jonathan Korn) writes:
#  wrote:
## jkorn@bbn.com (Jonathan Korn) writes:

### I can understand an Israeli or an Arab to be biased. But
### you Brendan, why are you biased?

## Because bias is part of the human condition, Jonathan.

# Brandan, c'mon, why are you biased the _way_ you are?

Hmm. If someone could answer such a question, he wouldn't
be biased, right? :-)


-Danny Keren.







From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Jul 28 12:40:50 PDT 1996
Article: 53978 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!news.shkoo.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!world1.bawave.com!news.clark.net!mr.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: I HAVE NO ROOT, SO I MUST SCREAM
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4tej0b$mi@tor-nn1-hb0.netcom.ca> <4teptg$f40@access5.digex.net>
Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 18:24:45 GMT
Lines: 14

mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein) writes:

# All the headers point to Marduk.  However, Marduk can
# usually spell, and "attorneys" is misspelled. 

When you play the Giwer, some Giwer rubs onto you. In the
words of George Orwell: "he wears a mask, and his face grow
to fit it".


-Danny Keren.





From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Jul 28 16:30:34 PDT 1996
Article: 54009 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.bible.prophecy,alt.christnet,alt.religion.christian
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Mr. Keren also ignores this aspect
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4s9otl$1pt@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com>  <31FA84DE.6949@mail.gte.net> <31fb7536.578470@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 18:55:51 GMT
Lines: 42
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:54009 alt.bible.prophecy:1998 alt.christnet:85344 alt.religion.christian:105051

[Followup = alt.revisionism]

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

# I personally don't know what Leuchter's qualifications are, 

He has none. He holds a BA in the arts.

# but it is evident he did some test at Auschwitz. Keren 
# says here "Leuchter himself states very clearly ..." that 
# there were cyanide traces found at Auschwitz, seeming to 
# use Leuchter himself as a reliable source. 

Not Leuchter, but the lab that tested the samples he brought.
I accept that Leuchter has enough qualifications to chop
pieces off a wall. Moreover, there were other tests.

# Keren did not add that the traces Leuchter found were
# based on Prussian blue stains, 

This is a lie; he found traces in rooms which had no Prussian
blue stains.

# Thus we can assume that these HCNs from this source alone
# where emitted into the atmosphere, converted to other cyanide
# compounds and distributed to the ground by rain fall ("acid 
# rain") not to mention combinate possibilities for the 
# components of HCN that could form from natural processes.

This is ridiculous. There are no cyanide traces in buildings
in the camp in which cyanide gas was not used; this was
confirmed in tests.

Soon these people will claim that Hiroshima was never hit
by an A-bomb, and that all radiation damage is from cosmic
rays.


-Danny Keren.





From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Jul 28 16:30:35 PDT 1996
Article: 54010 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.fan.ernst-zundel,alt.revisionism,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.jewish,talk.politics.guns,talk.politics.libertarian,talk.abortion,alt.christnet
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newshub.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!nntp04.primenet.com!news.shkoo.com!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <070700Z28071996@anon.penet.fi>
Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 18:18:59 GMT
Lines: 47
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.fan.ernst-zundel:2083 alt.revisionism:54010 alt.conspiracy:71883 alt.politics.white-power:37456 soc.culture.jewish:65031 talk.politics.guns:290129 talk.politics.libertarian:105797 talk.abortion:178847 alt.christnet:85351

[Followup = alt.revisionism]

an572010@anon.penet.fi (Vyshinsky) writes:

# The Leuchter Report came out of a highly dramatic secret
# expedition in the middle of the Second Great Holocaust
# Trial in 1988 in Toronto where the Holocaust Lobby, working
# through the government while helping themselves to tax payer
# money, had put Ernst on trial for "spreading false news."

This is starting to bore. We've been through this dozens of
times already.

Ernst Zundel is a crazy Nazi, who not only believes the 
Holocaust never happened, he also believes that the Nazi
leadership used "secret UFO's" to flee to a "secret base"
in the South Pole. He also claimed that the base is still
there, and tried to organize an expedition to look for it;
he also claimed that there is a hole in the South Pole,
via which the "Nazi UFO's" enter the inner earth.

See some of Zundel's fliers on this, and other related
UFO insanity: check out http://www.nizkor.org/, in the
directory ftp.cgi?people/z/zundel.ernst/flying-saucers.

This is really hilarious stuff; look it up.

And now, Fred Leuchter, who was hired by Zundel to give a 
"scientific proof" the Holocaust never took place. Leuchter's
a liar and a charlatan, who was taken to court in the US
for falsely claiming to be an engineer, while he only has
a BA in the arts. His "report" about the gas chambers is
so ridiculous that even Nazis who deny the Holocaust have
stopped using it (more so, as they admit that there are
indeed cyanide traces in the Auschwitz-Birkenau gas chambers).

All that being said, I repeat that I am against censoring
these Nazi morons. 

# the honourable Vyshinsky

What do you say about Zundel's UFO's base, oh "honourable" one?


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Jul 29 14:06:30 PDT 1996
Article: 54041 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!news.shkoo.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Photographs from BELSEN Camp
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4t8uvm$rcd@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>  <838484554snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 17:40:23 GMT
Lines: 29

Alexander Baron  writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com "Daniel Keren" writes:

## Our Nazi-lovers cannot give evidence of *one* SS-man or woman, 
## nor of any German soldier, who starved to death in the camps.

# I found a report in a medical journal from c1946 which reported
# some deaths from malnutrition alone after the war; 

Name one SS-man, SS-woman, or soldier from Belsen who was
starving, while more than 50,000 inmates died.

Explain the fact that all these unfortunate accidents of the
water pump breaking down, the bread truck not being allowed
in, bla-bla, happened only in the concentration camps.

Explain the fact that, out of all the British and American
POW's captured by the Nazis, 3 percent died in captivity,
while in Belsen the death rate was more than 50 (and, clearly,
if the British Army would not have arrived there, it would
have been a 100).

There is a very simple explanation, but you refuse to accept
it; just like any other fanatic, you refuse to accept reality.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Jul 29 14:06:31 PDT 1996
Article: 54050 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.alt.net!news1.alt.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!hunter.premier.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Wetzel Writes Lohse About The 'Gassing Apparatuses'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 23:50:26 GMT
Lines: 37

Letter from Dr. Erhard Wetzel to Reichskommissar Lohse, October 25, 1941
[Hitler and the Final Solution - G. Fleming, University of California
Press, 1984, p. 70]
------------------------------------------------------------------------
With regard to my letter of 18 October 1941, please be informed that
Oberdiensleiter [Chief Executive Officer] Brack from the Fuehrer's
Chancellory has stated his readiness to assist in the construction of
the necessary accommodations and gassing apparatuses, so they must
first be constructed. Brack's view is that, since construction of the
apparatuses within the Reich would present far greater difficulties
than on-site production, the most expedient course of action is to
send his people directly to Riga, in particular his chemist Dr.
Kallmeyer, who will take the necessary steps from there.
Oberdiensleiter Brack further points out that the procedure in
question is not without its hazards, and that therefore special safety
precautions are needed. Under these circumstances, I ask you to
contact Oberdiensleiter Brack in the Fuehrer's Chancellory through
your higher SS and Police leader. Please request from him the
dispatching of the chemist Dr. Kallmeyer and any further assistants
that are needed. I might further point out that Sturmbannfuehrer
Eichmann, the adviser on Jewish affairs in the Reich main security
office, is in complete accord with this procedure. According to the
information received here from Sturmbannfuehrer Eichmann, camps for
Jews will be set up in Riga and Minsk, where Jews from the Altreich
[Germany proper] might also be sent. Jews are currently being
evacuated from the Altreich to Lodz and other camps, from which those
fit for work will be transferred to work forces in the east. Given the
present situation, Jews who are not fit for work can be eliminated
without qualms through use of the Brack device. Incidents such as
those that took place during the shootings of Jews in Vilna, according
to a report I have on my desk, can hardly be sanctioned, keeping in
mind that the executions were undertaken openly, and the new
procedures assure that such incidents will no longer be possible. Jews
fit for work, on the other hand, will be transported to work forces in
the east. That the men and women in this latter group must be kept
apart from each other goes without saying. Please keep me informed as
to any further measures you take.


From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Jul 29 14:06:32 PDT 1996
Article: 54061 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: An SS-Court States: 'The Jews Have To Be Exterminated'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 23:49:10 GMT
Lines: 55

Excerpts from Verdict of the SS Court in Munich, against 
SS-Untersturmfuehrer Max Taubner, 24 of May 1943
['The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The Free Press, 
NY, 1988, p, 196-207]
-----------------------------------------------------------------

1. The accused shall not be punished because of the actions against
the Jews as such. The Jews have to be exterminated and none of the 
Jews that were killed is any great loss. Although the accused should
have recognized that the extermination of the Jews was the duty of
Kommandos which were set up especially for this purpose, he should
be excused for considering himself to have the authority to take
part in the extermination of Jewry himself. Real hatred of the Jews
was the driving motivation for the accused. In the process he let
himself be drawn into committing cruel actions in Alexandriya which
are unworthy of a German man and an SS-officer. These excesses cannot
be justified, either, as the accused would like to, as retaliation
for the pain that the Jews have caused the German people. It is not
the German way to apply Bolshevic methods during the necessary
extermination of the worst enemy of our people. In so doing the
conduct of the accused gives rise to considerable concern. The
accused allowed his men to act with such vicious brutality that
they conducted themselves under his command like a savage horde...

2. By taking photographs of the incidents or having photographs
taken, by having these developed in photographic shops and showing
them to his wife and friends, the accused is guilty of disobedience.
Such pictures could pose the gravest risks to the security of the
Reich if they fell into the wrong hands...


Dismissal of the case against the remaining parties, 1 June 1943

The following has been established on the basis of the main trial
of SS-Untersturmfuehrer Max Taubner...
The following men were party to the punishable acts committed or
ordered by SS-Untersturmfuehrer Max Taubner:

1. SS-Unterscharfuehrer Walter Muller particularly stood out during
the shootings of Jews with the brutality with which he tore small
Jewish children from their mothers. He held these children in
front of him with his left hand and then, with his right hand,
shot them with a pistol.

 .
 . [three more SS-personnel accused]
 .

Allowances have been made for the fact that the accused were, without
exception, acting on the orders of and under the responsibility
of Untersturmfuehrer Max Taubner. In this respect, their own 
culpability may be described as slight...

The cases against these accused have therefore been dismissed.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Jul 29 14:06:32 PDT 1996
Article: 54074 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Mauving right along
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4tfqf4$nlh@access5.digex.net> <4tgek6$tm@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 22:04:02 GMT
Lines: 73

ehrlich606@aol.com (Ehrlich606) writes:

# Now this was the point of Lueftl's calculations.  He claimed
# that if the ZB was put in, someone would have to clean it up.  
# The *wastefulness* argument, IMHO, is not really relevant.  

Try to explain this to Tom Moran. Maybe you'll be lucky.

# All right.  But since the argument now goes that there are
# gas masks as well as induction tubes (actually, I gather
# prisms that contain the pellets, lowered by wire into the tube), 
# and that the prisms are removed, we don't have an problem here 
# anymore.

Yes. Note that Kremas IV and V didn't have such introduction
devices; the Zyklon was simply thrown in through small openings
in the side walls (which were then closed with shutters). In
these kremas, we do have testimony of gas masks being used
by the sonderkommando.

I still wouldn't be surprised if nearly all the HCN would
have evaporated - from certain carriers - within 10 minutes;
but this has to be verified. I base my conjecture on some
testimonies, plus the Zyklon patent.

# Therefore I conclude that the outgassing time of ZB is not
# really an issue anymore, 

Tell it to Giwer.

# The only other problem here is that Nyiszli, for example, 
# claims that the fans were not turned on for 30 minutes.

Pressac comments on Hoess making (possibly) the same error.
The ventilation was, of course, switched on *before* the
doors were opened; Hoess may have heard them when the doors
were opened, and concluded that they were just switched on.

# The other reason why this becomes an issue is because of 
# the relatively low (top out at 7.9 mg/kg) of cyanide compounds 
# in Krema II, especially when compared to the delousing chambers.  

The following is from the report by the Institute  
of Forensic Research, Cracow:

TABLE III. CONCENTRATIONS OF CYANIDE IONS IN SAMPLES TAKEN
           FROM THE CREMATORIUM CHAMBERS (OR THEIR RUINS)
           IN WHICH THE VICTIMS WERE GASSED.

A - Sample No;
B - Concentration of CN~ (ug/kg).

Crematorium II
------------------------------------------------------------
A       25      26      27      28      29      30      31
------------------------------------------------------------
B       640     28      0       8       20      168     296
        592     28      0       8       16      156     288
        620     28      0       8       16      168     292



Note higher concentrations in some of the samples.

However, as you point out, one cannot expect the same amount
of compounds in the gas chambers as in the delousing chambers,
the exposure time being much shorter.


-Danny Keren.





From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Jul 29 14:06:33 PDT 1996
Article: 54093 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Bahr Testifies About a Gassing in Neuengamme
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 23:51:43 GMT
Lines: 53

 From the testimony of SS-Unterscharfuehrer Wilhelm Bahr:
[Quoted in "Truth Prevails", ISBN 1-879437-00-7, p. 99].
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Q: Is it correct that you have gassed 200 Russian POW's with Zyklon-B?

A: Yes, on orders.

Q: Where did you do that?

A: In Neuengamme [concentration camp].

Q: On whose order?

A: The local doctor, Dr. Von Bergmann.

Q: With what gas?

A: With Prussic acid [another name for Zyklon-B].

Q: How long did the Russians take to die?

A: I do not know. I only obeyed orders.

Q: How long did it take to gas the Russians?

A: I returned after two hours and they were all dead.

Q: For what purpose did you go away?

A: That was during lunch hour.

Q: You left for your lunch and came back afterwards?

A: Yes.

Q: Were they dead when you came back?

A: Yes.

Q: Did you look at their bodies?

A: Yes, because I had to load them.

Q: Why did you apply the gas to the Russians?

A: I only had orders to pour in the gas and I do not know anything
   about it.




-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Jul 29 14:06:34 PDT 1996
Article: 54227 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!imci5!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Photographs from BELSEN Camp
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4th17c$83b@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 17:57:03 GMT
Lines: 102

ehrlich606@aol.com (Ehrlich606) writes:

# But this is a strawman, or red herring, or whatever you
# want to call it. First of all, be accurate.  50,000 people 
# did not die in Belsen in the last weeks of the war or
# thereafter. 

Yes they did. What do you suggest the number is?

# Now as to the point.  How many SS personnel were at the camp?  
# Maybe a few hundred.  Obviously, there was enough food to feed 
# them.  But food for a few hundred does not multiply into food 
# for tens of thousands.

There was plenty of food nearby; 800 tons in the Panzer 
training school nearby. There was also plenty of water, 
I assume, yet many died of thirst. 

German civilians may have starved after the war - I have not
seen any documentation of this; in the many photos of the 
German civilians brought to the camps to see the results 
of Nazi barbarism, they seem very well-fed, as do the SS-men 
and women and the German POW's.

But you're not going to claim that, if German civilians did
die of starvation, it was in a percentage anywhere close
to that of the inmates who died?

Or the British and American POW's? 3 percent of whom died?

You can dance on the graves as much as you want, but you
cannot hide the truth.

# Dan is under a misapprehension that nothing like this
# happened elsewhere. It did.  Allied POW's ran out of food
# that Spring

How many of them died? 3 percent, during the entire war. What
do you suggest was the percentage at Belsen?

# Then, go on and compare the photographs of several inmates
# like Buchenwald, Auschwitz, and other locations where 
# several of the inmates, although not in the peak of health, 
# are not emaciated either.

Yes, do look at the photos of the Gypsie children in Auschwitz.

http://www.nizkor.org/

File

ftp.cgi?people/m/mengele.josef/images/Mengele.jpg

Look at the photos from Belsen, Buchenwald, Ohrdruf. 

Tell us how those lovely Nazis took care of the people in
these photos. Go ahead, tell us.

# There was a typhus epidemic in Belsen,

When you treat people like animals, and don't supply them
with basic means of survival, when they are starved, you
will have typhus epidemics.

Unless you support Giwer's rant of "lice infected Jews".

And you know that there was massive death from starvation
and disease long before the end of the war.

# The simple explanation is that the Nazis didn't care whether
# these people lived or died. OK, the Allies obviously didn't
# care if the German civilian population lived or died either, 
# when they bombed 600,000 of them to smithereens during the 
# strategic bombing offensive.  But neither case proves an 
# extermination program.

Bad analogy. Part of the aims of the bombing offensive was to
kill people. This does not mean that the Allies desired to
kill all German civilians. But you're making a silly analogy,
between war and between mass murder of helpless civilians
that was *not* part of a war, although it did take place
during the war.

When the Germans surrendered, the Allies didn't take them
and lock them in camps, to die of starvation and illness.

# OK, so why don't you start by explaining why Kramer would
# allow his camp to be taken over with thousands of corpses
# laying around, knowing full well that it would be a public
# relations disaster, but nevertheless he did it on purpose?

Who the hell cares? The corpses were there, this is what
counts. Why do we have to bother with what this dimwitted
brute had in mind when he surrendered the camp? Anyway,
what else could he do?


-Danny Keren.






From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Jul 29 21:05:26 PDT 1996
Article: 54232 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: auschwitz:myths and facts
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4tcpie$s2r@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>  <4thuh8$feu@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 16:57:40 GMT
Lines: 35

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

## The Zyklon with the Erco carrier existed in 1933; we have
## the book and we even a photograph of it.
##
## Once again:
##
## Why do you think it was manufactured?

# As in the last, I do not know why it was manufactured.  

You don't know? Want to make a guess? Hint: look up the
name of the book.

# In the mean time, deal with the "at least ten hours" 
# in the publication you folks claimed supported your 
# position but refused to post. 

"Refused to post"? What on earth are you babbling about?

The ventilation period of 10 hours or so becomes irrelevant,
of course, if one uses gas masks, as were used by the
sonderkommando, or if the room is forcibly ventilated,
as in Kremas II and III. 

Look at US gas chambers, in which people are executed
using HCN gas since 1920. Are you suggesting the corpse
of the executed person remains strapped to the chair
for 10 hours after he dies?


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Jul 29 21:05:28 PDT 1996
Article: 54254 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: for the last 4 days, there has been no delivery of food
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4t9da3$g0u@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com>  <838542643snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 21:38:34 GMT
Lines: 62

Alexander Baron  writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com "Daniel Keren" writes:

## Himmler definitely regarded the Jews, and the Slavs too,
## as "sub-human".

# Is this why Slavs who signed the "Volkslist" and renounced 
# their citizenship were given German nationality? 

There were actually a few Slavs, including Czechs, who
were regarded by the Nazis as "racially valuable". Again,
the Himmler speech - now on Nizkor's web site as an
audio file - says it best.

Read carefully now, Alex:

 From the speech of Reichsfuehrer-SS Himmler, speaking to SS
Major-Generals, Poznan, October 4 1943
[Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression - Washington, U.S Govt. Print. 
Off., 1946, Vol. IV, p. 559]
-------------------------------------------------------------------
One basic principal must be the absolute rule for the SS man: we
must be honest, decent, loyal, and comradely to members of our own
blood and to nobody else. What happens to a Russian, to a Czech,
does not interest me in the slightest. What the nations can offer
in good blood of our type, we will take, if necessary by kidnapping
their children and raising them with us. Whether nations live in
prosperity or starve to death interests me only in so far as we
need them as slaves for our culture; otherwise, it is of no interest
to me. Whether 10,000 Russian females fall down from exhaustion
while digging an anti-tank ditch interest me only in so far as
the anti-tank ditch for Germany is finished. We shall never be rough
and heartless when it is not necessary, that is clear. We Germans,
who are the only people in the world who have a decent attitude
towards animals, will also assume a decent attitude towards these
human animals. But it is a crime against our own blood to worry
about them and give them ideals, thus causing our sons and
grandsons to have a more difficult time with them. When someone
comes to me and says, "I cannot dig the anti-tank ditch with women
and children, it is inhuman, for it will kill them", then I
would have to say, "you are a murderer of your own blood because
if the anti-tank ditch is not dug, German soldiers will die, and
they are the sons of German mothers. They are our own blood".



# There were even a few Jews who became honorary Aryans, 

Such as who? When was that?

# unlike you, who are simply an honorary arsehole.

Why do you have to repeat in this forum words you picked
up at home?

And whatever happened to "dumb Jew", "semitic slime", and
other favorite expressions of yours? 


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Jul 29 21:05:28 PDT 1996
Article: 54255 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: What is, and what ain't
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <31f78739.5257640@news.pacificnet.net> <31fcce16.2494748@news.pacificnet.net>  <31fd1528.12385477@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 21:42:25 GMT
Lines: 21

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

# Incredible, Keren ask for clarification on something
# that is right there, "... flues running below the floors".

What floors? 

I repeat my question: are you suggesting the cremation
furnaces were underground?

Yes or no? 

# Now what?

I don't know. You refuse to answer? You forge another testimony
and post it, like you did with Prufer's testimony? Who knows?


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Jul 30 07:34:19 PDT 1996
Article: 54272 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news1.erols.com!imci5!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: War vs. Genocide (Re: Photographs from BELSEN Camp)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4tcm81$hbd@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> <31FA1DB5.C88@rio.com> <838543117snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 21:29:13 GMT
Lines: 37

Alexander Baron  writes:

# This guy is one dumb fuck. War is legalised murder you
# meathead, there are no rules. You think the Nazis were 
# guilty of mass murder in the camps by - in your 
# opinion - 

And the opinion of everyone who was there.

But don't forget the ever-so-famous Baron rule:

AL BARON, WHO WAS NEVER IN A NAZI CAMP, KNOWS MORE ABOUT
WHAT HAPPENED IN THEM THAN EVERYONE WHO WAS IN THEM.

# starving, working and "gassing" Jews to death and your
# buddies on Enola Gay were not?

There's a very big difference. The A-bomb, and the mass 
killing of German civilians by the British, were part
of the war. I do not support such actions, but they
were done *as a part of the war*, and once the Germans
and the Japanese surrendered, these actions stopped.

What you stupid "revisionist" bastards don't understand - 
or pretend not to understand - is that the murder of
the Jews and the Gypsies had *nothing* to do with the
war; it simply happened during the war. It was mass
murder plain and simple, and the people who were being
murdered were not, of course, given the option of
surrendering and saving their lives.

It was NOT part of the war. It was mass murder with no 
military goal or military meaning whatsoever. 


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Jul 30 07:34:20 PDT 1996
Article: 54302 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: TWA Flt 800
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4tcnbh$7er@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com> <31FA7270.3044@unb.ca> <28JUL199608015953@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu>
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 18:37:58 GMT
Lines: 16

Keith Morrison  writes:

# Please demonstrate the theoretical basis for claiming that
# a meteorite strike is an absolute impossibility *if* no other
# more ordinary reason is identified.  Please note that 
# meteorites and their effects on the planet are one of my
# interests so try not to stick your foot in your mouth again.

Have no fear, old son. Even if it will be discovered a 
meteorite brought the plane down, the nazi-boys will
find a way to blame it on da jooooooos.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Jul 30 07:34:20 PDT 1996
Article: 54305 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Photographs from BELSEN Camp
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <838312498snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>  <838542968snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 18:10:34 GMT
Lines: 39

Alexander Baron  writes:

# I think Kramer has been thoroughly demonised - the
# Beast of Belsen.

A more objective evaluation of Kramer is given by the
gentleman who wrote the introduction to "The Belsen
Trial": not necessarily a sadist who enjoyed killing
people, but more of a dimwitted brute who blindly 
followed the orders of his superiors.

Unlike Kurt Franz, Wilhelm Boger, Oswald Kaduk and
others, who were - or were turned into - sadists.

# Ironically I read a story in the Guardian last week about
# a man in San Francisco who was gaoled for feeding the
# homeless without a permit. Yes, I kid you not.

Were they starving to death when he fed them?

# I don't know if anybody is starving in America but if you
# consider that we are fifty years on in technology and not
# in the middle of the bloodiest war in history, Kramer comes
# out rather well in comparison.

This is Baron at his finest.

Heck, anyone recently see piles of tens-of-thousands of
emaciated corpses in San Francisco? Funny coincidence is
that I'm in California right now; been to SF a week ago,
ain't seen no piles of emaciated corpses.

Pity for Kramer you were not in his trial to defend him,
Al. They would probably have given him a medal.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Jul 30 07:34:21 PDT 1996
Article: 54308 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4i63p3$l5@axl02it.ntc.nokia.com>   <1wz-nOev1m$O065yn@login.dknet.dk>
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 17:07:03 GMT
Lines: 33

olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg) writes:

# The American way of executing people with HCN was 
# well tested, very quick and efficient. It was also a 
# much more simple way of producing HCN gas.

Certainly not much more simple. A solid carrier like
Zyklon-B is obviously much easier to handle than liquid
acid. Think before you write.

# The fumigant was specially developed for killing insects, 
# while the above mentioned American way was specially 
# developed for killing humans.

It doesn't matter. It was simpler and cheaper to use Zyklon,
and that's why it was used.

When you're executing one person by a firing squad,
there's also a different procedure than for shooting
hundreds of people.

You're making an idiotic comparison between executing 
perhaps one person in a few months to executing 
thousands per day. Different goals call for different 
methods, and there was no reason in the world for the 
SS to start looking for more complicated methods when 
they had numerous quantities of easy-to-use Zyklon,
which did the job for them.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Jul 30 09:08:07 PDT 1996
Article: 54359 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.inc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: What is, and what ain't
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <31f78739.5257640@news.pacificnet.net> <31fcce16.2494748@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 18:13:45 GMT
Lines: 12

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

# Imagine, with these hot underground flues running below
# the floors of the crematoria, it must have been some 
# pretty hot walking.

Are you claiming the furnaces, or flues, were underground?


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Jul 30 20:36:17 PDT 1996
Article: 54479 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!portc01.blue.aol.com!chi-news.cic.net!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Moran's Scientific Breakthrough Saves World! (Re: for th
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <31f614a6.1448866@news.pacificnet.net> <4tcs0j$l5n@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com> <31fa164d.938668@news.pacificnet.net> <4ti5f0$l3l@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 19:01:02 GMT
Lines: 64


mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
# tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:
 
## Oh, I see your having the same problem with Keren
## over here as to these referred to reports, patents
## and manuals that he keeps alluding to without actually
## posting the stuff itself.

# Having a problem is hardly the word for it.  He keeps
# making it up as he goes along. 

yet again, for the benefit of mentally-retarded Nazis:

The material from Dr. Peters' book - including the
mention, with a photograph, of the Erco carrier, which our
mentally retarded Nazis claim didn't exist - is in

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz/cyanide/zyklon/images

peters-03.jpg (ref)
peters-04.jpg (ref)
peters-58.jpg (ref)
peters-59.jpg (ref)
peters-60.jpg (ref)                      
peters-61.jpg (ref)                      
peters-62.jpg (ref)                      
peters-63.jpg (ref) 
peters-64.jpg (ref) 
peters-65.jpg (ref)      

The material from the Peters-Rach paper, which discusses the
outgassing time of the HCN (which our mentally retarded Nazis
over-estimated by a factor of 16) is in the same directory:

peters-rasch-132.jpg (ref)
peters-rasch-133.jpg (ref)
peters-rasch-134.jpg (ref)
peters-rasch-135.jpg (ref)
peters-rasch-136.jpg (ref)
peters-rasch-137.jpg (ref)

The Topf patent - which refutes other rubbish put forward by
our mentally retarded Nazis - is in

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?orgs/german/topf-und-soehne/images

tp4907-lrg-1b.gif (ref)
tp4907-lrg-2.gif (ref) 
tp4907-lrg-3.gif (ref) 

The connection's pretty fast now; I just tried it and it's about
8K per second.

I thank Dr. Ulrich Roessler for sending me Dr. Peter's book
and the Peters-Rach paper, and the German Patent Office for
sending me, upon my request, the Topf patent. I also thank
Jamie McCarthy for his help in organizing the material on
the Nizkor web site.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Jul 30 20:36:18 PDT 1996
Article: 54485 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-6.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Nazi Mass Murder of mental Patients, IV
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 20:59:15 GMT
Lines: 44

Letter from Dr. Hilfrich, Bishop of Limburg, to the Reich Minister of
Justice, August 13 1941 
[Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military Tribunals - 
Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1949-1953, Vol. I, p. 845-846]
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Regarding the report submitted on July 16 by the Chairman of the Fulda
Bishops' conference, Cardinal Dr. Bertram, I consider it my duty to
present the following as a concrete illustration of destruction of
so-called "useless life".

About 8 Kilometers from Limburg in the little town of Hadamar, on a
hill overlooking the town, there is an institution which had formerly
served various purposes and of late had been used as a nursing home.
This institution was renovated and furnished as a place in which, by
consensus of opinion, the above mentioned Euthanasia has been
systematically practiced for months- approximately since February
1941. This fact is, of course, known beyond the administrative
district of Wiesbaden...

Several times a week buses arrive in Hadamard with a considerable
number of such victims. School children of the vicinity know this
vehicle and say "here comes the murder-box again". After the arrival
of the vehicle, the citizens of Hadamar watch the smoke rise out of
the chimney...

The effect of the principles at work here that children call each
other names and say "you're crazy; you'll be sent to the baking oven
in Hadamar"...

All God-fearing man consider this destruction of helpless beings a
crass injustice...

Officials of the State Police, it is said, are trying to suppress
discussions of the Hadamar occurrences by means of severe threats...

I beg you most humbly, Herr Reich Minister, in the sense of the report
of the Episcopate of 16 July of this year, to prevent further
transgressions of the Fifth Commandment of God.




-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Jul 30 20:36:19 PDT 1996
Article: 54489 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-6.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Nazi Mass Murder of mental Patients, V
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 20:59:44 GMT
Lines: 15

Extract from the Diary of General Halder, September-November 1941
[Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military Tribunals - 
Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1949-1953, Vol. X, p. 1195-1196]
-----------------------------------------------------------------
26 September 1941:
 .
 .
h. Mental institutions in Army Group North. Russians regards the
   feebleminded as sacred beings. Killing them is necessary,
   nontheless.




-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Jul 31 13:58:00 PDT 1996
Article: 54500 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.cloud9.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Photographs from BELSEN Camp
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4th17c$83b@newsbf02.news.aol.com>  <4tkk3j$8v7@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 18:34:29 GMT
Lines: 48

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# Have you some how missed my posts from the Encylopedia
# Judaica on the numbers?

My question was addressed to "ehrlich", not you.

# Beyond all of that, you claim there was plenty of water
# but you have no claim to unpolluted water even though you 
# pretend to claim you have such information.  

The Brits used the river water. They were fit to drink.

Only a "revisionist" would claim that the Germans could
not get water to the inmates. 

# Yes, you are amusing, but not very bright. 

Much brighter than you, nontheless. 

# And the Russian in the same impossible
# circumstances?  50% that is.

Irrelevant to the point of the death rate under Nazi
captivity: 3 percent for the Allied POW's vs. 50,000
at Belsen alone for the inmates.

# Now which pictures prove gypsies?  Please be specific
# in your response.  

You're claiming the photo is a forgery?

## Unless you support Giwer's rant of "lice infected Jews".

# That is what all of the evidence indicates exceptt it
# was Eastern European Jews. 

What evidence? Pre-war, not after they were under Nazi
rule which deprived them of elementary living conditions?

These "revisionists" are no better than Goebbels and
Streicher. Nazi scum is Nazi scum, in 1996 as well as
in 1939. And senile, frustarted, hateful, unemployed 
Nazi scum is the worst of the lot.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Jul 31 13:58:01 PDT 1996
Article: 54501 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!portc01.blue.aol.com!chi-news.cic.net!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Photographs from BELSEN Camp
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <838542968snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>  <4tkmte$a6b@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 19:08:17 GMT
Lines: 32

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

[About Joseph Kramer]

# Right again.  The best organized military organization
# in the world fucked up again.  

The SS was not the "best organized military organization
in the world". Possibly, the German Army was, but not
the SS. 

# A "dimwitted brute" rose threw the ranks to become Kommandant.  

Well, I didn't mean that he was mentally retarded, or 
something of the sort. But, indeed, most of the SS-men,
including those at high positions, were not especially
bright, or well-educated. Neither were they from the
elite of German society.

As far as I've read, one of the exceptions was Franz
Stangl, who commanded Treblinka. He seems to have been
far more intelligent than most of the lot.

# It continues to be amazing what you folks will believe.  

It continues to be amazing that you simply don't know
anything about the historical events discussed here. 


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Jul 31 13:58:02 PDT 1996
Article: 54502 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!portc01.blue.aol.com!chi-news.cic.net!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: What is, and what ain't
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <31f78739.5257640@news.pacificnet.net> <31fd1528.12385477@news.pacificnet.net>  <31fe1d43.382058@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 19:11:19 GMT
Lines: 19

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

## I repeat my question: are you suggesting the cremation
## furnaces were underground?
##
## Yes or no? 

# No. 

Ok. Now, are you claiming the flues ran under the floor?

What floor? 

Are you saying the flues were lower than the furnaces? 


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Jul 31 13:58:03 PDT 1996
Article: 54530 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!news.shkoo.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.fibr.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Nazi Mass Murder of mental Patients, III
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 20:58:46 GMT
Lines: 24

Letter from Reichsfuehrer-SS Himmler to SS-Oberfuehrer Brack, 
19 December 1940
[Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military Tribunals - 
Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1949-1953, Vol. I, p. 856]
-----------------------------------------------------------------               
Dear Brack,

I hear there is great excitement on the Alb because of the Grafeneck
Institution. 
The population recognizes the gray automobiles of the SS and think they
know what is going on at the constantly smoking crematory.  What happens
there is a secret and yet is no longer one.  Thus the worst feeling has
arisen there, and in my opinion there remains only one thing, to
discontinue the use of the institution in this place and in any event
disseminate information in a clever and sensible manner by showing motion
pictures on the subject of inherited and mental diseases in just that
locality. 

May I ask for a report as to how the difficult problem is solved?




-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Jul 31 13:58:04 PDT 1996
Article: 54574 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!overload.lbl.gov!agate!ames!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: SS-Standartenfuehrer Jager Writes a Report
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 22:43:24 GMT
Lines: 374

Among all the Nazi documents detailing dastardly acts of mass
murder and other forms of barbarism, the "Jager Report" is
perhaps one of the most horrifying.

Written by SS-Standartenfuehrer (Colonel) Jager, commander of one 
of the "Einsatzkommandos" (EK 3), it provides a very detailed,
blood-curling account of the murderous rampage of this "special
squad" in Nazi-occupied USSR. Usually, the figures for Jews who were
murdered by EK 3 are broken into "Jewish men", "Jewish women", and
"Jewish children".

To understand the magnitude of the massacres, note the total number 
of victims - 137,346. This is for one Einsatkommando, in a five month
period, in one area. This report reflects very clearly on the plan
to kill all the Jews, except those who were needed for working
purposes; those were, as the report notes, "only" to be sterilized;
Jager goes on to state that "if despite sterilization a Jewess
becomes pregnant she will be liquidated".


Detailed report by SS-Standartenfuehrer Jager about mass killings
in Nazi occupied USSR, July-November 1941
['The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The Free Press, 
NY, 1988, p. 46-58].
------------------------------------------------------------------

The Commander of
the security police and
the SD
Einsatzkommando 3     Kauen [Kaunas], 1 December 1941

--------------------------
|Secret Reich Business!  |             5 copies
--------------------------             4th copy

      Complete list of executions carried out in the EK 3 area
      up to 1 December 1941

Security police duties in Lithuania taken over by Einsatzkommando 3 on
2 July 1941.
(The Wilna [Vilnius] area was taken over by EK 3 on 9 Aug. 1941, the
Schaulen area on 2 Oct. 1941. Up until these dates EK 9 operated in
Wilna and EK 2 in Schaulen.)
On my instructions and orders the following executions were conducted by
Lithuanian partisans:

4.7.41       Kauen-Fort VII    416 Jews, 47  Jewesses                463
6.7.41       Kauen-Fort VII    Jews                                  2,514

Following the formation of a raiding squad under the command of
SS-Obersturmfuherer Hamman and 8-10 reliable men from the
Einsatzkommando. the following actions were conducted in cooperation
with Lithuanian partisans:

7.7.41       Mariampole        Jews                                  32
8.7.41       Mariampole        14 Jews, 5 Comm. officials            19
8.7.41       Girkalinei        Comm. officials                       6
9.7.41       Wendziogala       32 Jews, 2 Jewesses, 1 Lithuanian
                               (f.), 2 Lithuanian Comm., 1
                               Russian Comm.                         38
9.7.41       Kauen-Fort VII    21 Jews, 3 Jewesses                   24
14.7.41      Mariampole        21 Jews, 1 Russ., 9 Lith. Comm.       31
17.7.41      Babtei            8 Comm. officials (incl. 6 Jews)       8
18.7.41      Mariampole        39 Jews, 14 Jewesses                  53
19.7.41      Kauen-Fort VII    17 Jews, 2 Jewesses, 4 Lith.
                               Comm., 2 Comm. Lithuanians (f.),
                               1 German Comm.                        26
21.7.41      Panevezys         59 Jews, 11 Jewesses, 1
                               Lithuanian (f.), 1 Pole, 22 Lith.
                               Comm., 9 Russ. Comm.                  103
22.7.41      Panevezys         1 Jew                                 1
23.7.41      Kedainiai         83 Jews, 12 Jewesses, 14 Russ.
                               Comm., 15 Lith. Comm., 1 Russ.
                               O-Politruk                            125
25.7.41      Mariampole        90 Jews, 13 Jewesses                  103
28.7.41      Panevezys         234 Jews, 15 Jewesses, 19 Russ.
                               Comm., 20 Lith. Comm.                 288

                                      Total carried forward        3,384


Sheet 2
                                      Total carried over           3,384

29.7.41      Rasainiai         254 Jews, 3 Lith. Comm.               257
30.7.41      Agriogala         27 Jews, 11 Lith. Comm.               38
31.7.41      Utena             235 Jews, 16 Jewesses, 4 Lith.
                               Comm., 1 robber/murderer              256
31.7.41      Wendziogala       13 Jews, 2 murderers                  15
1.8.41       Ukmerge           254 Jews, 42 Jewesses, 1 Pol.
                               Comm., 2 Lith. NKVD agents, 1
                               mayor of Jonava who gave order
                               to set fire to Jonava                 300
2.8.41       Kauen-Fort IV     170 Jews, 1 US Jewess, 33 Jewesses,
                               4 Lith. Comm.                         209
4.8.41       Panevezys         362 Jews, 41 Jewesses, 5 Russ. Comm.,
                               14 Lith. Comm.                        422
5.8.41       Rasainiai         213 Jews, 66  Jewesses                279
7.8.41       Utena             483 Jews, 87 Jewesses, 1 Lithuanian
                               (robber of corpses of German soldiers)571
8.8.41       Ukmerge           620 Jews, 82 Jewesses                 702
9.8.41       Kauen-Fort IV     484 Jews, 50 Jewesses                 534
11.8.41      Panevezys         450 Jews, 48 Jewesses, 1 Lith. 1 Russ.500
13.8.41      Alytus            617 Jews, 100 Jewesses, 1 criminal    719
14.8.41      Jonava            497 Jews, 55 Jewesses                 552
15-16.8.41   Rokiskis          3,200 Jews, Jewesses, and J. Children,
                               5 Lith. Comm., 1 Pole, 1 partisan     3207
9-16.8.41    Rasainiai        294 Jewesses, 4 Jewish children       298
27.6-14.8.41 Rokiskis          493 Jews, 432 Russians, 56 Lithuanians
                               (all active communists)               981
18.8.41      Kauen-Fort IV     689  Jews, 402 Jewesses, 1 Pole (f.),
                               711 Jewish intellectuals from Ghetto
                               in reprisal for sabotage action       1,812
19.8.41      Ukmerge           298 Jews, 255 Jewesses, 1 Politruk,
                               88 Jewish children, 1 Russ. Comm.     645
22.8.41      Dunanburg          3 Russ. Comm., 5 Latvian, incl. 1
                               murderer, 1 Russ. Guardsman, 3 Poles,
                               3 gypsies (m.), 1 gypsy (f.), 1 gypsy
                               child, 1 Jew, 1 Jewess, 1 Armenian
                               (m.), 2 Politruks (prison inspection
                               in Dunanburg                          21


                                      Total carried forward        16,152


Sheet 3
                                      Total carried forward        16,152

22.8.41      Aglona            Mentally sick: 269 men, 227 women,
                               48 children                           544
23.8.41      Panevezys         1,312 Jews, 4,602 Jewesses, 1,609
                               Jewish children                       7,523
18-22.8.41   Kreis Rasainiai   466 Jews, 440 Jewesses, 1,020
                               Jewish children                       1,926
25.8.41      Obeliai           112 Jews, 627 Jewesses, 421
                               Jewish children                       1,160
25-26.8.41   Seduva            230 Jews, 275 Jewesses, 159
                               Jewish children                       664
26.8.41      Zarasai           767 Jews, 1,113 Jewesses, 1 Lith.
                               Comm., 687 Jewish children, 1 Russ.
                               Comm. (f.)                            2,569
28.8.41      Pasvalys          402 Jews, 738 Jewesses, 209
                               Jewish children                       1,349
26.8.41      Kaisiadorys       All Jews, Jewesses, and Jewish
                               children                              1,911
27.8.41      Prienai           All Jews, Jewesses, and Jewish
                               Children                              1,078
27.8.41      Dagda and         212 Jews, 4 Russ. POW's               216
             Kraslawa
27.8.41      Joniskia          47 Jews, 165 Jewesses, 143
                               Jewish children                       355
28.8.41      Wilkia            76 Jews, 192 Jewesses, 134
                               Jewish children                       402
28.8.41      Kedainiai         710 Jews, 767 Jewesses, 599
                               Jewish children                       2,076
29.8.41      Rumsiskis and     20 Jews, 567 Jewesses, 197
             Ziezmariai        Jewish children                       784
29.8.41      Utena and         582 Jews, 1,731 Jewesses, 1,469
             Moletai           Jewish children                       3,782
13-31.8.41   Alytus and
             environs          233 Jews                              233

1.9.41       Mariampole        1,763 Jews, 1,812 Jewesses, 1,404
                               Jewish children, 109 mentally sick,
                               1 German subject (f.), married to a
                               Jew, 1 Russian (f.)                   5090

                                      Total carried over           47,814


Sheet 4
                                      Total carried over           47,814

28.8-2.9.41  Darsuniskis       10 Jews, 69 Jewesses, 20
                               Jewish children                       99
             Carliava          73 Jews, 113 Jewesses, 61
                               Jewish children                       247
             Jonava            112 Jews, 1,200 Jewesses, 244
                               Jewish children                       1,556
             Petrasiunai       30 Jews, 72 Jewesses, 23
                               Jewish children                       125
             Jesuas            26 Jews, 72 Jewesses, 46
                               Jewish children                       144
             Agriogala          207 Jews, 260 Jewesses, 195
                               Jewish children                       662
             Jasvainai         86 Jews, 110 Jewesses, 86
                               Jewish children                       282
             Babtei            20 Jews, 41 Jewesses, 22
                               Jewish children                       83
             Wendziogala        42 Jews, 113 Jewesses, 97
                               Jewish children                       252
             Krakes            448 Jews, 476 Jewesses, 97
                               Jewish children                       1,125
4.9.41       Pravenischkis     247 Jews, 6 Jewesses                  253
             Cekiske           22 Jews, 64 Jewesses, 60
                               Jewish children                       146
             Seredsius         6 Jews, 61 Jewesses, 126
                               Jewish children                       193
             Velinona          2 Jews, 71 Jewesses, 86
                               Jewish children                       159
             Zapiskis          47 Jews, 118 Jewesses, 13
                               Jewish children                       178
5.9.41       Ukmerge           1,123 Jews, 1,849 Jewesses, 1,737
                               Jewish children                       4,709
25.8-6.9.41  Mopping up in:    16 Jews, 412 Jewesses, 415
             Rasainiai         Jewish children                       843
             Georgenburg       all Jews, all Jewesses, all
                               Jewish children                       412
9.9.41       Alytus            287 Jews, 640 Jewesses, 352
                               Jewish children                       1,279
9.9.41       Butrimonys        67 Jews, 370 Jewesses, 303
                               Jewish children                       740
10.9.41      Merkine           223 Jews, 640 Jewesses, 276
                               Jewish children                       854
10.9.41      Varena            541 Jews, 141 Jewesses, 149
                               Jewish children                       831
11.9.41      Leipalingis       60 Jews, 70 Jewesses, 25
                               Jewish children                       155
11.9.41      Seirijai          229 Jews, 384 Jewesses, 340
                               Jewish children                       953
12.9.41      Simnas            68 Jews, 197 Jewesses, 149
                               Jewish children                       414
11-12.9.41   Uzusalis          Reprisal against inhabitants who
                               fed Russ. partisans; some in
                               possession of weapons                  43
26.9.41      Kauen-F.IV        412 Jews, 615 Jewesses, 581
                               Jewish children (sick and
                               suspected epidemic cases)             1,608

                                      Total carries over           66,159


Sheet 5
                                      Total carried over           66,159

2.10.41      Zagare            633 Jews, 1,107 Jewesses, 496
                               Jewish children (as these Jews were
                               being led away a mutiny rose, which
                               was however immediately put down;
                               150 Jews were shot immediately; 7
                               partisans wounded)                    2,236
4.10.41      Kauen-F.IX        315 Jews, 712 Jewesses, 818
                               Jewish children (reprisal after
                               German police officer shot in ghetto) 1,845
29.10.41     Kauen-F.IX        2,007 Jews, 2,920 Jewesses, 4,273
                               Jewish children (mopping up ghetto
                               of superfluous Jews)                  9,200
3.11.41      Lazdijai          485 Jews, 511 Jewesses, 539
                               Jewish children                       1,535
15.11.41     Wilkowiski        36 Jews, 48 Jewesses, 31
                               Jewish children                       115
25.11.41     Kauen-F.IX        1,159 Jews, 1,600 Jewesses, 175
                               Jewish children (resettlers from
                               Berlin, Munich and Frankfurt am main) 2,934
29.11.41     Kauen-F.IX        693 Jews, 1,155 Jewesses, 152
                               Jewish children (resettlers from
                               from Vienna and Breslau)              2,000
29.11.41     Kauen-F.IX        17 Jews, 1 Jewess, for contravention
                               of ghetto law, 1 Reichs German who
                               converted to the Jewish faith and
                               attended rabbinical school, then 15
                               terrorists from the Kalinin group     34

EK 3 detachment in Dunanburg
in the period 13.7-21.8.41:    9,012 Jews, Jewesses and Jewish
                               children, 573 active Comm.            9,585

EK 3 detachment in Wilna:
12.8-1.9.41  City of Wilna     425 Jews, 19 Jewesses, 8 Comm. (m.),
                               9 Comm. (f.)                          461
2.9.41       City of Wilna     864 Jews, 2,019 Jewesses, 817
                               Jewish children (sonderaktion because
                               German soldiers shot at by Jews)      3,700

                                      Total carried forward        99,084


sheet 6

                                      Total carried forward        99,804

12.9.41      City of Wilna     993 Jews, 1,670 Jewesses, 771
                               Jewish children                       3,334
17.9.41      City of Wilna     337 Jews, 687 Jewesses, 247
                               Jewish children and 4 Lith. Comm.     1,271
20.9.41      Nemencing         128 Jews, 176 Jewesses, 99
                               Jewish children                       403
22.9.41      Novo-Wilejka      468 Jews, 495 Jewesses, 196
                               Jewish children                       1,159
24.9.41      Riess             512 Jews, 744 Jewesses, 511
                               Jewish children                       1,767
25.9.41      Jahiunai          215 Jews, 229 Jewesses, 131
                               Jewish children                       575
27.9.41      Eysisky           989 Jews, 1,636 Jewesses, 821
                               Jewish children                       3,446
30.9.41      Trakai            366 Jews, 483 Jewesses, 597
                               Jewish children                       1,446
4.10.41      City of Wilna     432 Jews, 1,115 Jewesses, 436
                               Jewish children                       1,983
6.10.41      Semiliski         213 Jews, 359 Jewesses, 390
                               Jewish children                       962
9.10.41      Svenciany         1,169 Jews, 1,840 Jewesses, 717
                               Jewish children                       3,726
16.10.41     City of Wilna     382 Jews, 507 Jewesses, 257
                               Jewish children                       1,146
21.10.41     City of Wilna     718 Jews, 1,063 Jewesses, 586
                               Jewish children                       2,367
25.10.41     City of Wilna     1,776 Jewesses, 812 Jewish children   2,578
27.10.41     City of Wilna     946 Jews, 184 Jewesses, 73
                               Jewish children                       1,203
30.10.41     City of Wilna     382 Jews, 789 Jewesses, 362
                               Jewish children                       1,553
6.11.41      City of Wilna     340 Jews, 749 Jewesses, 252
                               Jewish children                       1,341
19.11.41     City of Wilna     76 Jews, 77 Jewesses, 18
                               Jewish children                       171
19.11.41     City of Wilna     6 POW's, 8 Poles                      14
20.11.41     City of Wilna     3 POW's                               3
25.11.41     City of Wilna     9 Jews, 46 Jewesses, 8 Jewish
                               children, 1 Pole for possession of arms
                               and other military equipment          64

EK 3 detachment in Minsk from
28.9-17.10.41:

             Pleschnitza       620 Jews, 1,285 Jewesses,
             Bischolin         1,126 Jewish children and 19
             Scak              Comm.
             Bober
             Uzda                                                    3,050
                                                                     --------
                                                                     133,346
Prior to EK 3 taking over security police duties, Jews liquidated
by pogroms and executions (including partisans)                      4,000
                                                                  -----------
                                                             Total 137,346


Today I can confirm that our objective, to solve the Jewish problem for
Lithuania, has been achieved by EK 3. In Lithuania there are no more
Jews, apart from Jewish workers and their families.

 .
 .
 .

The distance between from the assembly point to the graves was on average
4 to 5 Km.

 .
 .
 .

I consider the Jewish action more or less terminated as far as
Einsatzkommando 3 is concerned. Those working Jews and Jewesses still
available are needed urgently and I can envisage that after the winter
this workforce will be required even more urgently. I am of the view
that the sterilization program of the male worker Jews should be
started immediately so that reproduction is prevented. If despite
sterilization a Jewess becomes pregnant she will be liquidated.

 .
 .
 .

(signed) Jager
SS-Standartenfuehrer




-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Jul 31 13:58:05 PDT 1996
Article: 54597 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp.coast.net!zombie.ncsc.mil!newsgate.duke.edu!agate!ames!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Nazi Mass Murder of mental Patients, II
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 20:58:08 GMT
Lines: 23

Letter from Dr. Wurm, of the Wuerttemberg Evangelical Provincial Church,
to Reich Minister of interior Dr. Frick, September 5 1940
[Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression - Washington, U.S Govt. Print. 
Off., 1946, Supp. A, p. 1223]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Reich Minister,

On July 19th I sent you a letter about the systematic extermination
of lunatics, feeble-minded and epileptic persons. Since then this
practice has reached tremendous proportions: recently the inmates of
old-age homes have also been included. The basis for this practice
seems to be that in an efficient nation there should be no room
for weak and frail people. It is evident from the many reports which
we are receiving that the people's feelings are being badly hurt
by the measures ordered and that the feeling of legal insecurity
is spreading which is regrettable from the point of view of national
and state interest.




-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Jul 31 13:58:06 PDT 1996
Article: 54600 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Nizkor's BELZEC - more goofy stuff
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <31fe1de3.541560@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 05:09:12 GMT
Lines: 67

Professor Wilhelm Pfannenstiel, Waffen-SS hygienist, on a gassing 
at Belzec
[Quoted in 'The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The 
Free Press, NY, 1988., p. 238-244]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
When I am asked about executions of Jews I must confirm that on 19 August
1942 I witnessed an execution of Jews at Belzec extermination camp. I
would like to describe how I came to be there. During my conversations
with SS-Brigadefuehrer Globocnik, he told me about the large
spinning-mills that he had set up in Belzec. He also mentioned that
work at this camp would considerably outstrip German production. When
I asked him where the spinning materials came from, he told me proudly
that they had come from the Jews. At this point he also mentioned the
extermination actions against the Jews, who for the most part were
killed at the the camp at Belzec...

During this first visit I was taken to around by a certain
Polizieihauptmann named Wirth, who also showed and explained to me the
extermination installations at the camp. He told me that the following
morning a new transport of about 500 Jews would be arriving at the
camp who would be channeled through these extermination chambers. He
asked me whether I would like to watch one of these extermination
actions, to which, after a great deal of reflection, I consented. I
planned to submit a report to the Reichsarzt-SS about the
extermination actions. In order to write a report I had, however,
first to observe an action with my own eyes. I remained in the camp,
spent the night there and was witness to the following events the next
morning.

A goods train traveled directly into the camp of Belzec, the freight
cars were opened and Jews whom I believe were from the area of Romania
or Hungary were unloaded. The cars were crammed fairly full. There
were men, women and children of every age. They were ordered to get
into line and then had to proceed to an assembly area and take off
their shoes...

After the Jews had removed their shoes they were separated by sex. The
women went together with the children into a hut. There their hair was
shorn and they had to get undressed... The men went into another hut,
where they received the same treatment. I saw what happened in the
women's hut with my own eyes. After they had undressed, the whole
procedure went fairly quickly. They ran naked from the hut through a
hedge into the actual extermination centre. The whole extermination
centre looked just like a normal delousing institution. In front of
the building there were pots of geraniums and a sign saying "Hackenholt
Foundation", above which there was a star of David. The building was
brightly and pleasantly painted so as not to suggest people would be
killed here...

Inside the buildings, the Jews had to enter chambers into which was
channeled the exhaust of a [100(?)]-HP engine, located in the same
building. In it there were six such extermination chambers. They were
windowless, had electric lights and two doors. One door led outside so
that the bodies could be removed.  People were led from a corridor
into the chambers through an ordinary air-tight door with bolts. There
was a glass peep-hole, as I recall, next to the door in the wall.
Through this window one could watch what was happening inside the room
but only when it was not too full of people. After a short time the
glass became steamed up. When the people had been locked in the room
the motor was switched on and then I suppose the stop-valves or vents
to the chambers opened.  Whether they were stop-valves or vents I
would not like to say. It is possible that the pipe led led directly
to the chambers. Once the engine was running, the light in the
chambers was switched off. This was followed by palpable disquiet in
the chamber. In my view it was only then that the people sensed
something else was in store for them. It seemed to me that behind the
thick walls and door they were praying and shouting for help.


From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Jul 31 13:58:07 PDT 1996
Article: 54625 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Nizkor's BELZEC - more goofy stuff
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <31fe1de3.541560@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 05:09:56 GMT
Lines: 52

SS-Untersturmfuehrer Oberhauser on the death camp at Belzec
[Quoted in 'The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The 
Free Press, NY, 1988., p. 228-230]
----------------------------------------------------------------
The camp of Belzec was situated north-east of the Tomaszo'w to Lemberg
[Lvov] road beyond the village of Belzec. As the camp needed a siding
for the arriving transports the camp was built about 400 meters from
Belzec station. The camp itself was divided into two sections: section
1 and section 2. The siding led directly from Belzec station into
section 2 of the camp, in which the undressing barracks as well as the
gas installations and the burial field were situated...

The gassing of Jews which took place in Belzec camp up till 1 August
1942 can be divided into two phases. During the first series of
experiments there were two to three transports consisting of four to
six freight cars each holding twenty to forty persons. On the average
150 Jews were delivered and killed per transport. At that stage the
gassings were not yet part of a systematic eradication action but were
carried out to test and study closely the camp's capacity and the
technical problems involved in carrying out a gassing...

At the beginning of May 1942 SS-Oberfuehrer Brack from the Fuehrer's
chancellery suddenly came to Lublin. With Globocnik he discussed
resuming the extermination of the Jews. Globocnik said he had too few
people to carry out this programme. Brack stated that the euthanasia
programme had stopped and that the people from T4 would from now on be
detailed to him on a regular basis so that the decisions taken at the
Wannsee conference could be implemented. As it appeared that it would
not be possible for the Einsatzgruppen to clear individual areas of
Jews and the people in the large ghettos of Warsaw and Lemberg by
shooting them, the decision had been taken to set up two further
extermination camps which would be ready by 1 August 1942, namely
Treblinka and Sobibor. The large-scale extermination programme 
[Vernichtungsaktion] was due to start on 1 August 1942.

About a week after Brack had come to Globocnik, Wirth and his staff
returned to Belzec. The second series of experiments went on until
1 August 1942. During this period a total of five to six transports
(as far as I am aware) consisting of five to seven freight cars
containing thirty to forty people came to Belzec. The Jews from two
of these transports were gassed in the small chamber, but then Wirth
had the gas huts pulled down and built a massive new building with a 
much larger capacity. It was here that the Jews from the rest of the
transport were gassed.

During the first experiments and the first set of transports in the
second series of experiments bottled gas was still used for gassing;
however, for the last transports of the second series of experiments
the Jews were killed with the exhaust gases from a tank or lorry
engine which was operated by Hackenholt.




From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Jul 31 13:58:08 PDT 1996
Article: 54649 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.total.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n2ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!nntp04.primenet.com!news.shkoo.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!ames!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Some Children Were Considered 'Racially Valuable'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 07:52:20 GMT
Lines: 35

One wonders if the time in which this letter was written
(towards the end of the war, after the Germans have suffered
heavy losses already) - may have affected its content.

Letter from the Minister of State for the Protectorate of Bohemia
and Moravia to Rudolph Brandt, June 13 1944, Concerning Children
of Executed Czechs
[Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military Tribunals - 
Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1949-1953, Vol. IV, p. 1030-1032]
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Dear comarade Brandt,

Concerning the matter "children of executed Czechs" I wish to
reply to your letter as directed to SS-Lieutenant General Frank,
date 6 February of this year, diary index No. 26/2/44 g Bra/H,
that the conversation between SS-Lieutenant General Frank and
SS Colonel Sollmann took place on 2 July of last year in Prague.
Colonel Sollmann stated during this conversation that racially
valuable children up to six years would be considered eligible
by the "Lebensborn"...

It was intended, to have children up to six years and suitable 
for Germanization brought into German families through the
"Lebensborn"...

It is intended to have the racially acceptable elements of the
collectively housed children transferred through the "Lebensborn"
to German families or to a children's home whereas the
children over 16 years are to be sent to a concentration camp.




-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Jul 31 13:58:09 PDT 1996
Article: 54650 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.total.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n2ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!nntp04.primenet.com!news.shkoo.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!ames!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Nothing New Under the Rock
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 07:47:23 GMT
Lines: 84

As we can see, our nazi-boys here didn't invent the
kind of hate propaganda they keep posting. Here are
some excerpts from the writings of their ideological
fathers.

Various excerpts from anti-semitic publications
[All taken from Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression - Washington, 
U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1946, Vol. VIII]
--------------------------------------------------------------
p. 4: 
[Speech by Julius Streicher, September 5 1937, reported in the
Fraenkische Tageszeitung]

The Jew no longer shows himself among us openly as he used to. But it would
be wrong to say that victory is ours. Full and final victory will have
been achieved only when the whole world has been rid of the Jews.

p. 7:
[Leading article by Streicher from "Der Stuermer" No. 39, September 1936]

The continued work of the "Stuermer" will help to ensure that every German
down to the last man will, with heart and hand, join the ranks of those
whose aim is to crush the head of the serpent Pan-Juda beneath their
heels. He who helps to bring this about helps to eliminate the devil.
And this devil is the Jew.

p. 11:
[Streicher's speech in Nuernberg, April 3 1925, taken from "Kampf dem
Weltfeind", p. 42]

Let us make a new beginning today so that we can annihilate the Jew.

p. 12:
[Deutche Volksgesundheit aus Blut und Boden, New Year's issue 1935]

One single cohabitation of a Jew with an Aryan woman is sufficient to 
poison her blood forever. Together with the alien albumen she has
absorbed the alien soul. Never again will she be able to bear purely
Aryan children, even when married to an Aryan. They will all be
bastards, with a dual soul and the body of a mixed breed.

p. 19: 
[Article signed by Streicher in "Der Stuermer", No, 12, March 19
1942, pages 1 and 2]

There were two ways which might have led to a liberation of Europe
>from  the Jews: Expulsion or extermination! Both methods have been
tried in the course of the centuries, but they were never carried
to a conclusion...

The teaching of Christianity has stood in the way of a radical
solution of the Jewish problem in Europe...

Fate has decreed that it was finally left to the 20th century to see
the total solution of the Jewish problem. Just how this solution
will be achieved has been made known to the European nations and
to entire non-Jewish humanity in a proclamation read out by the
Fuehrer of the German people on the 24th February 1942:

Today the ideas of our Nationalsocialists and those of the Fascist
revolution have conquered large and mighty nations and my
prophecy will find its fulfillment, that in this war not the
Aryan race will be destroyed, but the Jew will be exterminated.
What ever else this struggle may lead to, or however long it
may endure, this will be the final result.

p. 29:

      Report of Streicher's address to 2,000 children at Nuernberg,
        Christmas 1936, from Fraenkische Tegeszeitung, 22nd
                            December 1936

Two thousand children rejoiced with Julius Streicher...

The Gauleiter [Streicher] told the little ones about the terrible times
after the war, when the Devil dominated mankind. "Do you know who the
Devil is", he asked his breathlessly listening audience. "The Jew, the
Jew", resounded from a thousand children's voices.




-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Jul 31 13:58:10 PDT 1996
Article: 54674 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.fibr.net!imci2!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Death to the 'Race Defiler'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 07:44:35 GMT
Lines: 43

Excerpts from Opinion and Sentence of the Nuernberg Special Court in
the Katzenberger Case
[Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military Tribunals - 
Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1949-1953, Vol. III, 653-663]
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Findings:

1. The defendant Katzenberger is fully Jewish and a German national; he
   is a member of the Jewish religious community...

2. Irene Seiler is a German citizen of German blood...

[Testimonies about the relationship between Katzenberger and Seiler deleted]

The court is therefore convinced that Katzenberger, after the Nuernberg laws
had come into effect, had repeated sexual intercourse with Seiler, up to
March 1940...

The conduct to which the defendants admitted and which in the case of
Katzenberger and consisted in drawing Seiler close to him, kissing
her, patting and caressing her thighs over her clothes, makes it clear
that in a crude manner Katzenberger did to Seiler what is popularly
called "Abschmieren" [petting]. It is obvious that such actions
are motivated only by sexual impulses. Even if the Jew had only done
these so-called "Ersatzhandlungen" [sexual acts in lieu of actual
intercourse] to Seiler, it would have been sufficient to charge him
with racial pollution in the full sense of the law...

He is therefore guilty of a continuous crime of racial pollution
according to sections 2 and 5, paragraph 11 of the Law for
Protection of German Blood and German Honor of 15 September 1935...

As the only feasible answer to the frivolous conduct of the defendant,
the court therefore deems it necessary to pronounce the death sentence
as the heaviest punishment provided by section 4 of the decree
against public enemies...




-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Jul 31 15:06:28 PDT 1996
Article: 80851 of soc.culture.german
Newsgroups: de.soc.politik,soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!hunter.premier.net!news.nl.innet.net!INnl.net!news.be.innet.net!INbe.net!news.belnet.be!jussieu.fr!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!cdc2.cdc.net!news.texas.net!nntp04.primenet.com!news.shkoo.com!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Ingrids Liste
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <31f7dcd6.10604706@news.europeonline.com> <31fa163e.6203795@news.crosslink.net> <31FA67D3.7A8E@wave.co.nz> <4te4fm$48t@unlisys.unlisys.net>
Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 19:27:02 GMT
Lines: 25

For the amusing side of this discussion, one may look at

ftp://nizkor.iam.uni-bonn.de/pub/nizkor

in the directory

/people/z/zundel.ernst/flying-saucers/

For examples of the "UFO research" by "leading revisionist"
Ernst Zundel. This directory contains some GIF files showing
various fliers published by Zundel, in which he claims that
the Nazi leadership escaped to the inner Earth, using secret
UFO's, no less. He's also offering an "Official UFO 
Investigator Pass", with a list of questions (in German),
to ask the crew of a UFO.

In North America, check out http://www.nizkor.org/, in 
the directory ftp.cgi?people/z/zundel.ernst/flying-saucers.

The man's crazy. He needs medical help. So does Ingrid Rimland. 


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Jul 31 16:12:33 PDT 1996
Article: 76870 of talk.politics.mideast
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.portal.ca!van-bc!unixg.ubc.ca!info.ucla.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: M Huber, Idiot or Schmuck
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4tikj2$9ad@netnews.upenn.edu>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 08:16:59 GMT
Lines: 16

"M Huber" is the lowest among the Nazi trash that
invaded the net. He regularly posts to some Nazi-
oriented or White power groups.       

The Untermench, however, is too much of a coward to
post under his own name.

It's trash. It was born that way. It will live
that way. And it will die that way. Nothing anyone
can do; nature has its misses.


-Danny Keren.





From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Jul 31 17:41:30 PDT 1996
Article: 54700 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!news.apk.net!hyperion.nitco.com!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: SHOULD KHAZAR REALLY BE KHAZIR?
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4tlcdb$kg9@lendl.cc.emory.edu>
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 22:56:04 GMT
Lines: 14

New nazikid on the block writes:

[bla bla bla]

# or those who suffered under Louis Dzerzhinski the Jew
# who led the secret police for Stalin!!

Is this true, BTW? The naziboys often claim Beria was a
Jew, although he most certainly was not.


-Danny Keren.

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