Archive/File: people/e/eichmann.adolf/transcripts/Sessions/Session-084-06
Last-Modified: 1999/06/09

Dr. Servatius:  In the first declaration, dated 12 June
1947, at the bottom, it says:

     "In December 1943, Veesenmayer came to see me at the
     legation and notified me that, by special order of the
     Reich Minister for Foreign Affairs, he was asked to
     visit the President of the Slovak State and negotiate
     with him on further deportations of Slovak Jews."

It then says that Tiso agreed.  On page 2, first paragraph
at the top, it says:

     "In the summer of 1944, as I remember - after having
     been reminded of it - Veesenmayer asked me in writing
     to make representations to the Slovak Government, in
     order to prevent Hungarian Jews from entering Slovak
     territory."

The second declaration is dated 6 October 1947.  On the
fifth page, in the middle, it says:

     "I can state that deportations of Jews in 1942 took
     place by order of the Foreign Ministry.  I myself
     received the relevant assignment in 1942.  I remember
     that in the relevant instructions it said that the
     Slovak Government was being required to deport the Jews
     found on its territory.  I transmitted this wish to
     Tuka.  At the beginning of 1942, some sixty thousand
     Jews were deported from Slovakia to Poland."

He continues:

     "After the 1944 revolt, a further, larger number of
     Jews was also deported.  At that time there were still
     some thirty thousand Jews here, as I discovered from
     statistics.  This latter expulsion of Jews went through
     the Commander of the Security Police."

Judge Raveh:   Perhaps the Accused can tell us what was his
reply to von Thadden's query in January 1945 about the
setting up of a refuge for children and the aged under the
protection of the Red Cross?

Accused:    Your Honour, I no longer remember what my reply
was.  I could not give an answer on my own initiative; I had
to obtain instructions from my Chief of Department.  But
since - as the text here says - the German legation in
Slovakia had already adopted a definitive position, I can
well imagine that the instructions I received said "no
action to be taken"; that is what today I would imagine to
have been the case.

Dr. Servatius:  I turn now to the chapter on Hungary.  I
would first like to submit another diagram.

Witness, was this diagram drawn up in accordance with the
information you supplied, and is it accurate?

Accused:    Yes, this diagram was also drawn up in
accordance with the information I supplied, and it is
accurate.

Presiding Judge: I mark this diagram exhibit N/68.

Dr. Servatius:  I would first submit document No. 563 - a
document not yet presented.  It is a communication from the
Foreign Ministry, Luther, to the German legation in
Budapest, dated August 1942.  Re: Treatment of Hungarian
Jews in the Reich and in the occupied territories.

Presiding Judge: I mark this exhibit N/69.

Dr. Servatius:  At the beginning it says:

     "On the basis of notification from your end to the
     effect that Hungary, according to a statement by an
     influential source, has shown itself to have no
     interest in Hungarian Jews living abroad, Jews of
     Hungarian nationality in the Reich and in the occupied
     territories are included in the anti-Jewish measures
     decreed in the meanwhile."

The Hungarian envoy makes a protest, and on page 2 it says:

     "I explained to the Hungarian envoy that I would find
     it difficult to accept his communication, since, in
     accordance with the wishes of the Fuehrer, it was
     crucial that we solve the Jewish Question in Europe as
     soon as possible.  I said that, as he no doubt knew, a
     number of states, such as Slovakia and Croatia, had
     indicated their agreement to the evacuation of all
     Jews, and even the French Ggovernment was considering
     implementation of appropriate measures in the
     unoccupied zone."

On page 2, point 3, in respect of a statement by Hungary, it
says:

     "If, however, Hungary were to create problems about
     including its Jews in the German anti-Jewish measures,
     it would thereby prevent the German authorities from
     cleaning up German or occupied areas from elements who,
     as things stand, must be considered to be wholly
     unreliable and possessing extremely hostile attitudes."

I shall skip the next passage; at the end it says:

     "In this respect the Reich Government, which has in any
     case accepted the entire burden of implementing all
     measures as well as their psychological repercussions
     in the areas concerned, considers that it is entitled
     to some co-operation."

Attorney General: Without wishing to detract from the guilt
of the Foreign Ministry in the annihilation of Jews, I must
nevertheless call the Court's attention to the fact that
this is a draft - at least, that is what it says on the
document - and there is no indication that the document was
ever dispatched or received.

Dr. Servatius:  That is quite correct.  It is true that it
bears Luther's signature, that is at the bottom, and there
is also an initial with a date, but whether the draft was
actually sent in this form is not clear to me.

Next exhibit - T/1137, document No. 1242.  This is a
communication from the Foreign Ministry to the envoy in
Budapest, dated 14 October 1942.  It concerns the Jewish
Question in Hungary.  In the introduction it reads:

     "In the meanwhile, I have made an oral presentation to
     the Hungarian envoy of the points of view contained in
     the communication of 8 October.  The envoy asked that
     we outline our wishes and proposals in this area
     without delay, as he was leaving for Budapest on 18
     October."

Further down it says:

     "I announced that an official demarche would be
     instituted by us with his government, and for this
     purpose I would ask for the Hungarian Government to be
     notified that it is no longer possible to treat
     Hungarian Jews in the Reich by way of exception."

In the middle of page 2 it says:

     "The problem of treatment of the Jews in Hungary itself
     appears to be more difficult, but also more urgent.  I
     therefore request that the Hungarian Government be
     informed of the reasons which motivate us, in
     accordance with the wishes of the Fuehrer, to strive
     towards an early and complete solution of the Jewish
     Question in Europe, and that the Hungarian Government
     be asked to proceed, for its part, with the requisite
     measures."

On page 3 it says: "The goal in Hungary must therefore be:
1. To exclude Jews from economic life; 2. Marking; 3. To
prepare the expulsion and the deportation to the East."

Next exhibit - T/1139, document No. 972.  The Foreign
Ministry - Klingenfuss - informs Eichmann on 7 December 1942
on the situation of Jewish affairs in Hungary: legislation
and current status.

The next exhibit I would like to discuss is T/1145, document
No. 1021.  This is a communication from Ambassador
Veesenmayer to the Foreign Ministry, dated 19 March 1944.
In it he reports that he has been instructed to replace
Ambassador von Jagow in Budapest.  Jagow has been recalled,
and has taken his leave of the Regent "after informing him
of my appointment as Reich Plenipotentiary and Ambassador."

Under 3 it says:

     "I subsequently spent three quarters of an hour on my
     own with the Regent, to whom I introduced myself and
     whom I informed, that I had been instructed to set up
     the new government with him.  The general atmosphere of
     this conversation with the Regent was a positive one."

Next exhibit - T/1155, document No. 813, dated 20 March
1944.  This is headed "Attendance List"; it is the outcome
of a consultation, and the names of those present are not
given.  It says here "that Security Police IVB4 is
provisionally installed in the Hotel Astoria," and then at
the end it says, "for reassurance it had been stated to the
Central Jewish Council in Budapest - everything is to remain
calm," and at the end, there is the main point which leads
me to refer to this document: "Authority over the Jewish
Religious Community of Pest is to be wielded exclusively by
the Commander of Security Police IVB4, SS Sturmbannfuehrer
and Oberregierungsrat Trenker."  Before that it says: "In
case of complaints, refer to Krumey and Wisliceny."

Witness, can you explain why you are not listed in this
document?

Accused:    The Senior Commander of the Security Police and
the Security Service had under his authority various
Commanders of the Security Police and the Security Service.
In the case of Budapest, the responsible commander was the
Commander of the Security Police and the Security Service,
Obersturmbannfuehrer and Oberregierungsrat Trenker.  I was
not a commander in Hungary; I had a operations unit, and so
I had no authority in the various areas of command, unless
authorization was granted by the Commander of the Security
Police and the Security Service.

Presiding Judge: And why is this reference made here to IVB4
for Trenker?

Accused:    Because both the Commanders of the State Police
and the regional headquarters of the State Police had a
section with a corresponding department, or Section IVB4.
It all corresponded.  That is to say, the Head Office for
Reich Security and the subordinate institutions.  These
sections were not directly under the control of the Head
Office for Reich Security: They were under the independent
chiefs of the departments - in this case, the Commander of
the Security Police and the Security Service.

Presiding Judge: Was that also true of Hungary, that after
you made your appearance there, in addition to your
operations unit, there was another department there - a
Section IVB4 under the Commander of the Security Service?

Accused:    Yes, indeed.  This IVB4 existed not only under
the Commander, making it his office, his, but also under the
Commander of the Security Police and the Security Service in
Budapest.

Dr. Servatius:  I submit as evidence document No. 1124 -
communication from the office of the Reich Minister for
Foreign Affairs, signed by Envoy Ritter - or Ambassador
Ritter - to Reich Plenipotentiary Veesenmayer, dated 31
March 1944.

Presiding Judge: I mark this exhibit N/70.

Dr. Servatius:  This reads:

     "For the Reich Plenipotentiary only: The Reich Minister
     has learned that Obergruppenfuehrer Kaltenbrunner
     intends to be in Budapest within the next two weeks.
     The Reich Minister would ask you in this connection to
     report confidentially to the Reich Minister personally
     on the assignments which Mr. Kaltenbrunner has been
     given and carries out, apart from General Winkelmann
     who is subordinate to you." (General Winkelmann is the
     Higher SS and Police Leader.)  "Is he personally
     dealing with arrangements for the Jewish Question, or
     with other special matters?  As previously, the Reich
     Minister is still concerned that the Security Service
     might try to interfere with the duties for which you
     are responsible and with your authority, and would ask
     you to pay particular attention to ensuring that this
     does not happen." Signed: Ritter.
     
I would like to submit another exhibit - document No. 372.
This is a communication from Veesenmayer to Ambassador
Ritter, that is, for the Reich Minister for Foreign Affairs,
dated 14 April 1944.  In the introduction it says:

     "In a discussion yesterday, Sztojay gave me a firm
     promise that by the end of April Hungary would make at
     least fifty thousand able-bodied Jews available to the
     Reich.  Practical measures have already been started by
     the action initiated on the part of the Security
     Service and the Hungarian police."

In the last sentence it says:

     "As a result of these arrangements and other actions
     already planned, it should be possible in May to make a
     further fifty thousand labour Jews available to the
     Reich, and at the same time to increase to 100,000, up
     to 150,000, the number of Jews concentrated in labour
     batallions in Hungary."  Signed: Veesenmayer.

Presiding Judge: I mark this exhibit N/71.

Dr. Servatius:  I submit a further exhibit, document No.
216, not yet submitted.  This is a notification by the
Foreign Ministry, von Thadden, to Veesenmayer, dated 20
April 1944.  Contents: "Ordering of railway carriages and
timetable to be arranged by Eichmann's Section - as soon as
final instructions are received from Obergruppenfuehrer
Kaltenbrunner."

Presiding Judge: I mark this exhibit N/72.

Accused:    May I add some additional clarification?

Dr. Servatius:  Please do.

Accused:    This exhibit N/72 is dated 20 April 1944.  It is
preceded by a communication from Veesenmayer to Ambassador
Ritter, to Ribbentrop's office, document No. 675, dated 15
April 1944.  There, in the last paragraph, it says:

     "Shall agree on deportation details with
     Obergruppenfuehrer Winkelmann, and may make another
     report on this.  However, request immdediatly urgent
     instructions as to where in the Reich transport is to
     be sent.  Veesenmayer."

Dr. Servatius:  The exhibit to which the Accused is
referring is document No. 675.  I now submit it as evidence.
It is a communication from Veesenmayer, dated 15 April, to
Ambassador Ritter, that is, to Ribbentrop's office.

The next section reads:

     "In reply to my demand made to Premier Sztojay, and
     accepted by him, that by the end of this month fifty
     thousand Jews be made available for labour in Germany,
     today I received notification from the Honved Ministry
     that five thousand Jews will be made available
     immediately, and then every three to four days a
     further five thousand will be provided, until the
     figure of fifty thousand is attained."

The last paragraph reads:

     "Shall agree on deportation details with
     Obergruppenfuehrer Winkelmann, and may make another
     report on this.  However, request as of now urgent
     instructions as to where in the Reich transport is to
     be sent."  Signed: Veesenmayer.

Presiding Judge: This exhibit is marked N/73.

Dr. Servatius:  Next exhibit - T/1182, document No. 366.  A
communication from the Foreign Ministry, von Thadden, to the
office of Reich Minister for Foreign Affairs, Ribbentrop,
dated 22 April 1944.  It reads as follows:

     "Finalized information from the Head Office for Reich
     Security to the effect that the fifty thousand Jews
     will be deported from Hungary for labour in closed
     camps.  Deportation, particularly timetable and
     ordering of railway carriages, will be dealt with by
     the Head Office for Reich Security.
     Obersturmbannfuehrer Eichmann, who is himself in
     Hungary, is receiving all the necessary instructions
     today from the Head Office for Reich Security.  Written
     notification to the Foreign Ministry will be dispatched
     today."

The next exhibit...

Presiding Judge: Dr. Servatius, could we interrupt the
proceedings here and adjourn?

Dr. Servatius:  Yes.

Presiding Judge: Tomorrow the Session will start with the
submission of the depositions received from abroad, insofar
as these are testimonies of witnesses who are to be
considered as Prosecution witnesses.  We shall then continue
with the examination-in-chief of the Accused.

The next Session will be tomorrow morning at 8.30.

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