Archive/File: people/e/eichmann.adolf/transcripts/Sessions/Session-084-05
Last-Modified: 1999/06/09

Accused:  However, since on page 2, the last paragraph, in exhibit
N/65, on 25 September 1940 - that is at a time when I
believe Wisliceny was not yet in Slovakia - Killinger makes
a reference to this question of total Jewish assets, I would
tend to assume that Wisliceny received the relevant
instructions from his head of mission.

Dr. Servatius:  Next exhibit, T/1078, document No. 837.
This is a communication from the Foreign Ministry - Luther -
to the German legation in Pressburg, dated 16 February 1942.
It deals with the evacuation of Jews.  It reads: "As part of
the measures for the Final Solution of the European Jewish
Question, the German Government is prepared immediately to
take over twenty thousand young, strong Slovak Jews and to
transport them to the East, where there is need for labour."
Below there is a handwritten note: "Telegram to Slovak
Government: Proposal eagerly accepted.  Preliminary work can
be initiated."

Witness, can you say who made this comment?  Do you
recognize the handwriting?

Accused:    No, I do not recognize it.  I do not know.

Dr. Servatius:  Next exhibit, T/1079, document No. 1270 -
communication from Ambassador Garben, Foreign Ministry, to
the legation in Pressburg.  It contains information about
visits - under point 2, about Eichmann's visit.  It says
there: "Eichmann, by order of the Chief of the Security
Police and the Security Service, for preliminary discussions
on the evacuation of twenty thousand Jews from Slovakia."

The next exhibit is T/1080, document No. 1271 - this is a
communication from the Foreign Ministry - Luther - to the
legation in Pressburg, dated 20 March 1942.  It discusses
the evacuation - the deportations - and then it says: "As
part of this action it is intended that Slovakia should pay
the Reich an amount of five hundred Marks for each Jew taken
over."  Signed, Luther.

The next exhibit is T/1081, document No. 1015.  This is a
minute by Luther of the Foreign Ministry, dated 29 March
1942.  It reads:

"Ambassador Ludin called me from Pressburg, in order to
inform me that a positive decision has been taken by the
Slovak Council of State on the question of evacuating Jews
from Slovakia."

It continues:

     "In the first discussion there was opposition by one
     member of the Council of State, to which Bishop Waiczek
     replied with a very positive speech."

There would be exceptions for baptised Jews.  Then it says:

     "Envoy Ludin informed me that three evacuation trains
     with six hundred to one thousand Jews had already left.
     Others would follow without delay.  As soon as the
     twenty thousand Jews initially demanded for labour
     purposes had been evacuated, a start could be made with
     evacuating the remaining seventy thousand Jews.  The
     Pressburg legation will send a detailed written
     report."  Signed, Luther.

Judge Halevi:  I have a question to the Accused in respect
of the last exhibits.  In the telegram dated 13 March, it
says that you are coming to Slovakia in order to hold
preparatory talks about expelling twenty thousand Jews from
Slovakia.  On 29 March it says that the first three trains
have already left with six hundred to one thousand Jews in
each train.

If that is so, did you make these preparations during those
days, from 13 March onwards?  Were you in Slovakia, and did
you prepare this evacuation or not?

Accused:    I prepared the evacuation in Berlin.  I was also
in Slovakia.  However, as to whether at the time referred to
in the telegram of 13 March I was in Slovakia, I do not
remember, because I heard that Heydrich himself went to Tuka
and personally cleared up matters with Tuka.  What I do
remember very clearly is that on the day that
Heydrich...that the attack on Heydrich took place, I was in
Slovakia.

Judge Halevi:  That was later.  Thank you very much.

Dr. Servatius:  Next exhibit - T/1085, document No. 838.
This is a communication from Wisliceny to the German
legation in Pressburg, Ministerialrat Dr. Grueninger, dated
28 April 1942, saying that an ordinance from the Central
Office for the Economy has secured Jewish movable property.
In the last sentence but one of the communication it says:
"A legal ordinance currently being prepared provides for all
Jewish property to be confiscated by the Slovak State."

Next exhibit - T/1086, document No. 835.  This is a draft
for a note verbale, and it reads: "The German legation,"
etc. advises that "the German Reich Government will in
principle no longer transport back to Slovakia the Jews who
have been transported, and those who are to be transported
from Slovak territory to Reich territory."  This note
verbale is to be handed over to the Foreign Ministry of the
Slovak Republic in Pressburg.  I cannot make out the
signature; it would appear to be "Ludin."

Next exhibit - T/1087, document No. 836.  This is a
communication from the Foreign Ministry, signed Luther, to
the legation in Pressburg.  It states as follows:

     "Please inform Slovak Government of the following: The
     Reich Government agrees to guarantee that the Jews
     accepted as part of the dejudaization of Slovakia, will
     remain definitely in the Eastern territories and will
     not be offered any possibility of re-immigrating into
     Slovakia."

It then says:

     "The Reich Government is prepared to accept another
     twenty thousand Jews capable of labour from Slovakia
     during May of this year, and to send them to the East.
     Details to be settled as previously."

Next exhibit - T/1089, document No. 839.  This is from
Department IVB4, signed Guenther, to the Foreign Ministry.
This reports that twenty thousand have been deported and
that the deportation of another twenty thousand has
commenced.  In the last paragraph it reads: "The rolling
stock made available by the Slovak Government facilitates
considerably the technical implementation of the
evacuation."

Next exhibit - T/1101, document No. 369.  This is a minute
from Wisliceny about consultations on 30 June 1942.  It
reads: "Adviser on Jewish Questions Wisliceny stated" in his
introductory report in the presence of Tuka and Ludin that
"the action against Jews was in its closing phase.  Fifty-
two thousand Jews have been deported.  Thirty-five thousand
remain for the time being.  These persons possess Letters of
Protection which are now being checked."  At the end of the
minute it says: "Wisliceny is in favour of Moravek
continuing with the work, because he is a worker of
integrity who makes no compromises."  It concludes: "Envoy
Ludin recommends a one hundred per cent solution of the
Jewish Question."

Next exhibit - T/1106, document No. 1016.  This is a
communication from Ambassador Ludin to the Foreign Ministry,
dated 13 April 1943.  It is about the pastoral letters of
the Slovak bishops.  At the bottom of page 3 it says:

     "Recently, Premier Dr. Tuka told me that the Papal
     Nuncio, Monsignor Burzio, had come to see him in order
     to protest verbally, by order of the Holy See, against
     the continuation of Jewish deportations.  However, he
     did not even accept the protest, going immediately into
     the purely political nature of the matter."

The last sentence of the communication reads:

     "In principle, I obviously maintain my opinion that it
     is a matter of urgent necessity that the Jews be
     deported from Slovakia as quickly and completely as
     possible."  Signed, Ludin.

The last page says: "Sent to Eichmann for his information
and with request for his views." Witness, what were your
views on this communication?

Accused:    I am not able to reply to the question; eighteen
years have gone by since then.

Dr. Servatius:  The next exhibit is T/1120, document No.
513.  This is a communication from Veesenmayer in Budapest
to the Foreign Ministry, dated 13 June 1944. It is about
Slovak Jews in Hungary, and the efforts of these Slovaks to
return home.  At the end it says:

     "I would suggest that influence be exerted on the
     Slovak Government to adopt a basically disinterested
     attitude to Slovak Jews in Hungary, which will make
     action at this end far easier and will also make things
     quite clear vis-a-vis the Hungarian Government."

Next exhibit - T/1121, document No. 902.  Ambassador Ludin
in Pressburg to the Foreign Ministry, dated 23 June 1944.
It is about a consultation with Dr. Veesenmayer concerning
the question of what is to happen to the Slovak Jews in
Hungary.  It says: "No objections to the consultation.  He
is awaiting a visit, until the Adviser on Jewish Affairs is
present again on a permanent basis."  Wisliceny's presence
may therefore be dispensed with.

Presiding Judge: Dr. Servatius, it does not say that; he is
insisting on Wisliceny's presence.  And he repeats that at
the end.

Dr. Servatius:  That is what I was trying to say; at that
time Wisliceny was away, in Greece or somewhere, and here
what it says is that if he does not return, things will not
progress.  He is indispensable.

Presiding Judge: Precisely.

Attorney General: He was in Budapest.

Dr. Servatius:  Next exhibit - T/1122, document No. 903.
Another communication from Ambassador Ludin in Pressburg to
the Foreign Ministry, dated 11 August 1944.  This is a
summary of his review of the situation in Slovakia.  At the
bottom of page 6 it deals with carrying out the activities
for which Wisliceny is required:

     "His absence, resulting from his appointment to Greece
     and Hungary, has most definitely facilitated a more lax
     application of the regulations, and also" - it is
     difficult to make out the words here - "shows that it
     is vital to have the local participation of a well-
     versed specialist officer for the controls necessary,
     in view of local circumstances, and for continuing
     pressure in individual cases."

At the bottom of page 7, before the last paragraph, it says:

     "This example should, however, make the point most
     forcibly that ongoing expert monitoring is necessary.
     I would therefore request that the appointment of the
     Adviser on Jewish Affairs, Hauptsturmbannfuehrer
     Wisliceny, to Hungary, be revoked, and that
     arrangements be made for his immediate return to
     Slovakia to continue with his activities here."

Exhibit T/1125, document No. 895.* {*Document 895 was marked
T/1127}

Presiding Judge: Letter from Budapest, dated 2 August 1944?

Dr. Servatius:  No, it is a communication from Ludin to the
Foreign Ministry, dated 4 October 1944.  Ludin writes on 4
October 1944, to the Foreign Ministry about discussions he
has had with Tiso about solving the Jewish Question.  At the
end of the communication it says:

     "I indicated to the Premier that in my opinion there
     must at all costs be a radical solution applied now to
     the Jewish Question, and if there were foreign
     protests, he should simply indicate that the Reich was
     demanding a radical solution from the Slovak State.  In
     that case, we would be prepared to take responsibility
     for the measures against the Jews.  Request approval of
     this manner of speech."

Next exhibit - T/1128, document No. 896.  Memorandum by von
Thadden for submission via the State Secretary to the Reich
Minister for Foreign Affairs.  In his opinion, for
propaganda purposes such assumption of responsibility is not
particularly clever.  The text continues:

     "The insurrections in Slovakia, as was stressed also by
     the new Slovak envoy in Berlin, were marked by an
     exceptionally high participation on the part of Jews,
     including those with exemption permits.  This fact
     should be used to urge the Slovaks to reply to any
     claims that the high level of participation by Jews in
     insurrections by the partisan movement, makes it
     absolutely essential to apply a radical solution to the
     Jewish Question, in the security interests of the
     Slovak state."

Next exhibit - T/1132, document No. 217.  This is a
communication from von Thadden of the Foreign Ministry to
Eichmann.  It is a proposal for setting up a refuge for
children and old people, the sick, and at the bottom it
indicates that it was rejected.  Dunant - that is the Red
Cross representative - was given to understand "by the
German legation that, in view of the participation of Jews
in the Slovak uprising, there was no possibility of
complying with his wish, since any refuge would immediately
become a new centre for Jewish resistance.  Dunant
nevertheless requested that his wish be transmitted to the
competent Reich authorities."

I submit as evidence document No. 515, not yet submitted.
This is a first declaration by Ambassador Ludin, dated 12
June 1947, Bratislava - obviously in prison.

Presiding Judge: What happened to Ludin?

Dr. Servatius:  I do not know what happened to him.

Presiding Judge: Do you know?

Attorney General: No, Sir.

Dr. Servatius:  Perhaps I could at the same time submit the
next document; it is another declaration by Ludin - No.514.

Presiding Judge: Mr. Hausner, does the Prosecution have any
objections to the submission of these exhibits?

Attorney General: No, Your Honour.  I gather that Ludin was
executed; so, since he is no longer alive, I have no
objections to his two declarations being submitted.

Presiding Judge:

Decision No. 87

We authorize the submission of the two declarations by Ludin
as evidence.  The Attorney General has no objections.  We
shall mark them N/66 (Prosecution No. 515), and N/67
(Prosecution No. 514).

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