Archive/File: people/e/eichmann.adolf/transcripts/Sessions/Session-020-04
Last-Modified: 1999/10/10


Judge Halevi:  On the way from Nisko to Lublin did you come
across Poles?

Witness Kratky: Yes.

Q. And they conveyed you by cart, on payment of money, to
Lublin, or how was it? Was there a Polish cart driver?

A. Yes, a Polish cart driver, from Lublin to the East.

Q. You related, previously, that SS took you off the cart
and struck you; were you riding on a cart belonging to a
Pole, or what was it?

A. No - a little, for a short time.

Q. And you also went back on a cart?

A. Not all the time.

Q. I want to ask you how you were treated by the Poles whom
you encountered on your way?

A. The Pole who took us on his cart was an excellent person,
very good. But the Poles who we met us when we stopped in
some forest - they suddenly appeared before us - perhaps
fifty kilometres along the road to Lublin - suddenly men
appeared there and detained us, they wanted to take away our
money and watches. We had already decided to give them
whatever was possible, it was not worthwhile to start a
quarrel with them, we did not know if they had a gun or
something. We suddenly heard a cart approaching. They saw
the cart and disappeared, and the driver took us.

Q. Generally speaking, what was the attitude of the Poles to
the Jews, when you were in Poland?

A. I had no contacts with Poles - there was only one who
received money from us and travelled to Moravska Ostrava to
convey all the news. He also visited people in Moravska
Ostrava and also my own family, and at the time also brought
things to us. He was all right. I didn't meet many Poles.

Q. After that you spent another two years in Moravska
Ostrava. What was the attitude of the Czech population to
the Jews?

A. We did not have any contacts with them. People did not
want to have any contact with us. I must say that it was
very risky to go out of the house, but not because of the
Czechs; there were many Germans there, and I remember one
incident: A friend of mine, Goldberger, who was blond and
actually looked like an Aryan, went out of his house after
7.30 in the evening and some acquaintance of his from the
town saw him; he immediately reported this to the SS, and he
was taken off to his death. They seized him right away and
took him to Konitzia, Brno, a concentration camp.

Q. His Czech acquaintance betrayed him to the SS?

A. No, it was a German acquaintance.

Q. Were German civilians also living there?

A. Yes, there were lots of Germans - the centre of Maehrisch-
Ostrau was completely German.

Judge Raveh:   Do you remember how many Jews from Stettin
arrived at Lublin?

Witness Kratky: I don't remember how many, but it was a very
long train.

Q. Approximately?

A. Several hundred, certainly.

Presiding Judge: Thank you very much - you have completed
your testimony.

Attorney General: This brings to an end the evidence of the
present stage and, with the permission of the Court, we
shall proceed to the next stage. The Prosecution now intends
to present thirty-five documents which, we submit,
constitute proof of the decision for the physical
destruction of the Jews. We also intend to prove the guilt
of the Accused in this connection. After submission of the
documents we shall present the witnesses. Because of the
importance of each of the documents I ask the Court in
advance to allow me to draw its attention to several
selected passages.

The first document is our No. 983, the minutes of a meeting
which took place in Berlin on 21 September 1939 under
Heydrich's chairmanship with the participation of a number
of high SS officers. Last on the list of participants is
Hauptsturmfehrer Eichmann, Juedische Auswanderungszentrale
Authentication of the document: It belongs to the Alexandria
document and was submitted with the statement of the Accused
No. T/37-264.

Presiding Judge: This will be T/164.

Attorney General: In this document Heydrich is designated C
- Chef (Chief). Following a general review of the German
plans regarding occupied Poland, Heydrich decrees that the
Jews shall be deported to the Gau @3(district) where alien
languages are spoken and will be moved away from the
demarcation line approved by the Fuehrer and that this
process will take one year. Heydrich says already at the
beginning of the meeting that the Jews shall be moved to the
towns as fast as possible, that 30,000 Gypsies are to be
transferred from the Reich to Poland and that a systematic
railway transport of Jews away from the German areas is to
begin. I shall read one sentence: "The Jews have to be
concentrated in the towns within the Ghetto area in order to
provide a better possibility of control and of later
deportation. It is of urgent importance that the Jew as
smallholder should disappear from the countryside."

Judge Halevi:  03What page was that?

Attorney General: Page 4 in the original, Your Honour:
"Hierbei vordringlich ist, dass der Jude als Kleinsiedler
vom Lande verschwindet."

Dr. Servatius:  I have to point out that there is no
signature on document No. 983.

Attorney General: I shall come to the remarks of the Accused
concerning these documents presently. I shall only mention
our document No. 775 first.

Presiding Judge: Still on this question, No. 983: At the end
here I see the marking II, III. What does that mean?

Attorney General: You will see, Your Honour, that it says
"Stabskanzlei III" at the top of the document and I think
this is the number used in the Stabskanzlei (Staff
Secretariat).

Presiding Judge: In the original it is in handwriting. Is
this a kind of signature at the end or does it also appear
in print?

Attorney General: I have it in print. It is true that the
document carries no signature but I shall immediately get to
the reaction of the Accused regarding this point. We have
here one of the American documents which we received from
the Alexandria Documentation Centre.

Presiding Judge: Yes, Alexandria near Washington.

Attorney General: Following this meeting instructions were
given to those operational units which existed in 1939 -
called "Einsatzgruppen"; and this is a document
authenticated as No. P.S. 3363 and submitted to the Court as
document T/37 (263). It contains the instructions which were
issued on 21 September 1939 following that meeting.

Presiding Judge: This will be T/165.

Attorney General: In a so-called "Urgent Letter"
(Schnellbrief) in German, to all the chiefs of operational
units, the Einsatzgruppen of the Security Police concerned
with the Jewish question in the occupation zones, Heydrich
decrees, first of all, that the planned overall measures
(i.e. the final aim) are to be kept strictly secret and that
a differentiation has to be made between the final aim which
will demand a longer period of time and the stages for the
attainment of this final aim which are carried out within
short time spans. The measures planned demand thorough
preparations, technically as well as economically. It is
self-evident that all the tasks on the agenda cannot be
determined in detail. The instructions and guidelines which
follow also serve to enable the heads of the Einsatzgruppen
to use their own practical judgment. The concentration of
the Jews from the rural areas in larger towns is to be
considered (gilt) as the first condition for the achievement
of the final aim. This must be implemented with all possible
speed.

There now follow more detailed instructions for
implementation in the various areas, how to concentrate the
Jews near the railway junctions, instructions regarding the
establishments of Councils of Jewish Elders, and, in
paragraph 1 it says with reference to the Councils of
Elders: The Council will be responsible in the fullest sense
for the exact implementation, within the time limit set, of
all instructions given or still to be given.

At the end of paragraph 4 concerning the Councils of Elders:
The argument that the Jews played a prominent part in
partisan attacks and looting will serve as justification for
their concentration in the towns.

In paragraph 6 of the same passage: There is no objection to
the Jews taking their movable possessions, to the extent
that it is possible at all.

Paragraph 7 of the passage provides that the Jews who do not
obey the order to move to the towns will be granted a short
extension in justified cases. They are to be warned that
severest punishment will ensue, if they do not keep to this
extended time limit.

The following paragraphs deal with the economic liquidation
of the Jews, with Aryanization of enterprises and with the
seizing of the Jewish economy in Poland.

Now, with the permission of the Court, I shall state the
following in reply to Counsel for the Defence. The second
document from which I have just quoted, was shown to the
Accused during his interrogation, before the first, at a
time when he did not yet know, at any rate not from us, that
we knew the list of participants in the meeting of 21
September. The Court will see his reaction to the document
on page 3141, where he says that this actually clarifies
many things for him and that it becomes clear to him that on
21 September 1939 Heydrich actually already planned the
whole ghettoization, that he already spoke of the "final
solution." He does not know anything about this. And this is
what he says on page 3142: "I did not do this...I know
nothing about it. When I came everything was already...I
found to a certain extent...if I may put it this way...a
ready-made structure."

After this Inspector Less put before him the list of those
present at the meeting and the Court will kindly note his
stammered reaction on page 3175 and following pages when he
says: "Yes, today it is easy to say what can be understood
by 'Final Aim.' In those days, what had to be understood as
'Final Aim,' especially if one was not active in the
Executive - was of course not to be understood in this way,
as for instance the sentence that was thrown at me, so to
speak, when I was ordered before Heydrich...yes, yes, of
course, this is quite possible," and all the rest of his
reactions to this document.

Dr. Servatius:  May I ask in regard to document No. 775 that
was quoted just now, to state what is the heading of this
document.

Attorney General: The document is before Counsel for the
Defence, and he can see as well as I that it is from the
Chef der Sicherheitspolizei (Chief of the Security Police).
The document was submitted to him. I am prepared to give him
a copy.

Dr. Servatius:  I only wanted to point out that it did not
come from the Accused's Department.

Attorney General: I did not say so.

Presiding Judge: The argument was that these instructions
were given as a result of a consultation in which the
Accused took part.

Attorney General: The next document is our No. 468. It was
shown to the Accused and you have it as T/37 (121). It is
the minutes of a meeting in which Heydrich participated as
well as Reichsminister Seyss-Inquart and a long list of
officers from which I shall only mention those of importance
to us: Krueger, Streckenbach, Rasch, Albromeit, Globocnik,
Katzmann, Hahn, Huppenkothen, Best, Mueller, Ohlendorf,
Eichmann, Guenther, Dannecker and Rajakowitsch.

Presiding Judge: This document will be numbered T/166.

Attorney General: This meeting was called for the purpose of
implementing a decision which we shall present at once, and
Heydrich announced that it was being held by order of the
Reichsfuehrer-SS in order to lay down with all the
authorities involved a uniform guideline for the
implementation of the resettlement as ordered by the
Fuehrer. The matter in question was the expulsion of the
Jews, Poles and Gypsies from the areas incorporated in the
Reich (eingegliederte Gebiete) to other areas. At that time
the Department IVD4 was mentioned, which was to supervise
and direct the expulsions.

Presiding Judge: This is the end of the first page?

Attorney General: Yes. Heydrich said that complaints had
been received that at previous evacuations the numbers
originally fixed had not been adhered to, but the quota had
been exceeded. With the establishment of Department IVD4 for
the central direction of the tasks of evacuation those
reservations would no longer be relevant.

First priority would be given to the transfer of 40,000 Jews
and Poles from the Warthegau to the Generalgouvernement in
order to make room for Baltic Germans. On page 6 two mass
movements are mentioned: (a) 40,000 Poles and Jews in order
to make room for the Baltic Germans; (b) 120,000 Poles for
the benefit of the Volhynian Germans. Further on: the
transfer of all the Jews from the new Eastern district, and
of 30,000 Gypsies from the Reich to the Generalgouvernement
should be carried out as the last mass movement.

Since it was stipulated that the evacuation of 120,000 Poles
would start around March 1940, the clearing of Jews and
Gypsies was to cease until the completion of those
operations.

Furthermore there was mention of deporting 1,000 Jews from
Stettin to the Generalgouvernement in 1940 in order to take
over their apartments which were needed for military
purposes.

Seyss-Inquart recapitulated the numbers as follows (page 7):
40,000 Jews and Poles, another 120,000 Poles as well as all
the Jews in the new Eastern provinces plus 30,000 Gypsies
from the old Reich and the Ostmark (Eastern Border Province)
would be transferred. If the Court is interested to know
already at this stage - the document is mentioned in the
statement of the Accused on page 1566 and following pages.

What is the purpose of all this? In our document 1396 the
Court will find an order from Heinrich Himmler addressed to
two SS Officers, Weichsel and Hildebrandt, dated 7 November
1939.* {* The document is in fact addressed to SS
Gruppenfuehrer Hildebrandt as Higher SS, and Police Leader
of the Weichsel (Vistula) District.} The source of
authentication is Bulletin No. 12 of the Polish Governmental
Committee.

Presiding Judge: This document is numbered T/167.

Attorney General: I submit the official Bulletin because we
shall need it for further authentication. The Law under
which that Committee, an official body, was established, has
already been submitted to this Court. In the Bulletin the
original German documents appear in photocopy form.

Presiding Judge: The document is numbered T/168.

Attorney General: Himmler announced that for the
implementation of the decree for strengthening of the German
people (Festigung des Deutschen Volkstums) he ordered that
the attached instructions are to be followed. What are the
attached instructions? It is Hitler's instruction which also
carries the signature of Goering and Keitel.

Presiding Judge: And Lammers.

State Attorney Bar-Or:  Lammers, that is only for
authentication.

Presiding Judge: His name also appears on top.

State Attorney Bar-Or:  Yes. Thank you very much.

Attorney General: The document is dated 9 November. What are
the contents of the document? - Hitler decrees: "The results
of Versailles in Europe have been done away with. Therefore
the Great German Reich is able to absorb and settle more
Germans." And he charges the Reichsfuehrer SS with the
following tasks: To bring back these citizens of the German
Reich and those persons belonging to the German people
('Volksdeutsche' in the original) from abroad for definite
return to the Reich and do away with the harmful influence
of foreign sectors of the population, which constitute a
danger to the Reich and to the German people. Wider powers
were given to the Reichsfuehrer SS to take the
administrative measures necessary for the implementation of
these tasks. In the end it says that the Reich Finance
Minister will put all the necessary means for the
implementation of these activities at the disposal of the
Reichsfuehrer. That was the order from Hitler under which
the Jewish and Polish populations were uprooted from those
areas and transferred to the Generalgouvernement.

Our next document is No. 1397. Its authentication is also to
be found in Bulletin No. 12. Its date is 4 November 1939.

Presiding Judge: This document will be T/169.

Attorney General: It is intended in the first instance for
the Head office for Reich Security. Signed by Himmler. Will
the Court please note all the many localities to which it
was sent: Berlin, Koenigsberg, Breslau, Danzig, Posen
Warsaw, and for information to various offices including the
Oberkommando der Wehrmacht (High Command of the Army). It
opens with Himmler's order that the transfer of the
population from the former Polish, now German, areas and of
all the Jews ("Alle Juden") has to be carried out in January
and February 1940. Responsible: Senior SS and Police
Officers. The document was sent to all those to whom it was
addressed for information and further action.

Attorney General: Our next document is No. 1398 of 21
December  1939. Will the Court please note the abbreviations
at the top. The document originated with the Head of the
Security Police and SD. After this there appear a number of
letters. The author of the document is Eichmann, although
the signature is of Heydrich.

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