Archive/File: people/b/buchanan.pat buchanan.0695

From bzs@world.std.com Tue Jun 27 00:52:10 PDT 1995
Article: 22728 of alt.revisionism
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From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: Pat Buchanan
In-Reply-To: ph276sw@prism.gatech.edu's message of 26 Jun 1995 16:28:30 -0400
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From: ph276sw@prism.gatech.edu (Scott Wilhelm)
>What evidence do you people have that Buchanan is a racist or
>anti-semite?

I actually do not know if Mr Buchanan is a racist or an anti-semite,
per se.

I do believe he's a moron who makes outlandish statements and does
things which I'm not surprised some interpret as such.

For example, Buchanan's putting forth Fritz Berg's claims that it's
impossible to kill people with diesel gas fumes as is recorded to have
been done by the Nazis during WWII (and in reference to exactly that.)

In the first place, why does Mr Buchanan feel it necessary to comment
like that in his nationally syndicated news column on such an issue?
Is he some sort of expert in the matter? Did he believe he was
clearing something or other up for everyone? He's certainly free to
make such comments, but then again we're all free to conclude the man
is therefore a moron.

Second, why use Fredreich Berg as a source? Mr Berg is on the board of
directors (as it were) of the "Insitute for Historical Review", a
group whose sole purpose is to try to deny that the Holocaust ever
occurred at all. They claim no one was killed, purposely, in the Nazi
death camps during World War II. What a wonderful source Mr Buchanan
chose! Moron!

Mr Berg has been seen on these groups posting things like:

    From: bergf@iia.org (Friedrich Berg)
    Date: 17 Jul 1994 01:49:55 GMT

    After reading Shein, can anyone really be surprised that the Germans 
    would people like him in concentration camps during WW2.  That is 
    precisely where people like him belonged--that is the only thing his 
    talmudic logic, his filthy sophistry, is ever able to prove.

    FPBERG

and in response to someone else:

    From bergf@mary.iia.org Fri Jul  1 11:57:13 EDT 1994

    # Maybe some other engineer out there in cyberland will have the patience 
    # to teach this Jewish trash something about the real world.  I have lost 
    # my patience.  

    # FPBerg 

What a wonderful and erudite guy this Berg is. There's other stuff
like that.

BTW, the German Tourist Board a few weeks ago fired Berg's wife for
her involvement with Berg's "work".


The point being, Mr Berg is utterly wrong, has been pushing this
"diesel engines can't kill" theme as part of his refutation that the
Holocaust occurred at all, and Mr Buchanan is a moron for using Mr
Berg as a source, and his judgement seriously suspect for even
thinking Mr Berg's claims were true.

You would think something inside Mr Buchanan's dense head would have
said hmm, this seems to refute a rather basic claim regarding the
holocaust, maybe before publishing this as fact in my nationally
syndicated column I should check this out! No, too much to ask. Moron!

One could only imagine how Mr Buchanan proposes to handle information
and fact-finding were he president of the united states. I for one
would rather not have a president who is so gullible and likely to
send us all off on a bigfoot hunt because of something he read in the
Weekly World News...

Another question that's arisen about Mr Buchanan regarded his use of
the campaign slogan "America First" in his failed presidential bid in
1992.

Mr Buchanan's father was an active member of a group, "The America
First Committee", during World War II.

This group was a Nazi-sympathizer group, later associated with "The
German Bund", Hitler's "Fifth Column" (Nazi supporters inside the US
who Mr Hitler hoped would disrupt the US and thus help him win the
war.)

Mr Buchanan certainly knew of his father's involvement, he mentions it
in his own 1988 book, "Right From the Beginning" on page 30, published
four years before Mr Buchanan chose this as a campaign slogan.

It was certainly no secret what this group was up to. For example,
Shirer in his "Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" talks foully of them
(they're in the index.)

Why does Mr Buchanan do these things?

I don't know for certain.

But I do believe he's at best a moron, and I'm not surprised at all
that some associate foul and unsavory things with the man.

Personally I'd prefer not to see such a moron as president of the
united states, perhaps some feel otherwise. Free country. I suppose
we've elected morons before, but I can't quite think of one of quite
the moronic caliber of Mr Buchanan, and lord knows I've had low
opinions of a few of our past presidents.


-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


From aaron.g@ix.netcom.com Tue Jun 27 06:50:40 PDT 1995
Article: 22741 of alt.revisionism
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From: aaron.g@ix.netcom.com (Aaron Gross)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.guns,soc.culture.jewish,misc.legal,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.org.batf,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: Pat Buchanan
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In <3sn59e$c9g@acmex.gatech.edu> ph276sw@prism.gatech.edu (Scott
Wilhelm) writes: 
>
>What evidence do you people have that Buchanan is a racist or
>anti-semite?

Try the William F. Buckley treatise from The New Republic issue
dedicated to the issue of antisemitism.  Buckley's conclusion was that
he could not defend Buchanan from the charge.

Buchanan has consistantly chosen a narrow anti-Israel, anti-Jewish
focus.  He has no record of defending anyone other than those accused
of being Nazis.


From kebarnes@cc.memphis.edu Tue Jun 27 06:51:07 PDT 1995
Article: 22759 of alt.revisionism
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From: kebarnes@cc.memphis.edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.guns,soc.culture.jewish,misc.legal,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.org.batf,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: Pat Buchanan
Message-ID: <1995Jun26.184024.52757@msuvx1.memphis.edu>
Date: 26 Jun 95 18:40:24 -0500
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aaron.g@ix.netcom.com (Aaron Gross) writes:

> In <3sn59e$c9g@acmex.gatech.edu> ph276sw@prism.gatech.edu (Scott
> Wilhelm) writes: 
>>
>>What evidence do you people have that Buchanan is a racist or
>>anti-semite?
> 
> Try the William F. Buckley treatise from The New Republic issue
                                           ^^^ ^^^ ^^^^^^^^
> dedicated to the issue of antisemitism.  Buckley's conclusion was that
> he could not defend Buchanan from the charge.
> 
> Buchanan has consistantly chosen a narrow anti-Israel, anti-Jewish
> focus.  He has no record of defending anyone other than those accused
> of being Nazis.

Buckley writing for _The New Republic?_  Now_there's_a switch!  :)
(You no doubt intended to say "National Review"...)

-- 
**x*dna   Ken Barnes, LifeSci Bldg.  |       Life,       | NRA
*(==) *   The University Of Memphis  |      Liberty,     | JPFO
* \'  *   Memphis, TN                |  and the Pursuit  | GOP
*(=)***   kebarnes@cc.memphis.edu    |___of Happiness!___| U-U

"Everything we do looks sinister, even when it's innocent screw-ups."
    --unnamed White House official, _Washington Post,_ 1/7/94


From mstein@access5.digex.net Tue Jun 27 12:22:53 PDT 1995
Article: 22769 of alt.revisionism
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From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,soc.culture.jewish,misc.legal,alt.revisionism,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: Pat Buchanan
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In article <3smatk$6u2@worf.qntm.com>,
Wakko Warner  wrote:
>In article , 
>Adam Schneider  writes:
>
>>The description fits Buchanan to a T.  On March 17, 1990, Buchanan
>>wrote in his nationally syndicated column that the Nazi gas chambers
>>were a hoax and couldn't have really worked.
>
>	You're wrong. You must have seen the quote out of context.
>	He said no such thing.

    It is true he did not say anything about Auschwitz, which used
Zyklon-B (a pesticide whose active ingredient is cyanide).  However, here
is what he wrote about Treblinka: 

    "Finally, the death engine.  During the war, the underground 
government of the Warsaw Ghetto reported to London that the Jews of 
Treblinka were being electrocuted and steamed to death.
    The Israeli court, however, concluded [NB: actually, this was the
conclusion of historians and _German_ courts, based on eyewitness
testimony, including some by members of the SS who were at the Operation
Reinhard camps - mstein] the murder weapon for 850,000 was the diesel 
engine from a Soviet tank which drove its exhaust into the death 
chamber.  All died in 20 minutes, Finkelstein swore in 1945.
    The problem is: Diesel engines do not emit enough carbon monoxide to 
kill anybody.  In 1988, 97 kids, trapped 400 feet underground in a 
Washington, D.C. tunnel while two locomotives spewed diesel exhaust into 
the car, emerged unharmed after 45 minutes.
    Demjanjuk's weapon of mass murder cannot kill.[...]"

    Buchanan, Patrick: "'Ivan the Terrible' - More Doubts" [New York Post,
Saturday, March 17, 1990 - sorry, no page number legible on my photocopy]. 
That's the quote, with no cuts from the start of discussion to the start
of another subject.  Do please explain how it's out of context. 

    In case you're wondering, I don't hold Buchanan directly responsible
for this nonsense, only for repeating it without checking it out
sufficiently.  The original author is named Friedrich Berg.  He is correct
that _normally_ diesels do not give off high CO, but the technical paper
he cited on diesel exhaust composition clearly shows it's possible to tune
a diesel to give off high levels of carbon monoxide.  Berg says it's very
hard to do, but he cannot get around the fact that the authors of the
paper he cited were able to do it.  Nor can Berg explain why, if the
Americans he cited could do it, the Germans could not have done the same
thing. 

    Nevertheless, there is a very strong possibility that the actual cause
of death at Treblinka was asphyxiation caused by depletion of the
available oxygen in the chamber as it was replaced by diesel exhaust with
a low concentration of oxygen and a high level of NOx compounds.  Unlike
the train tunnel, the Treblinka chambers had low ceilings and were crammed
full of people - there are citations that the SS found that they worked
better the more they were filled.  This is fairly strong evidence that
asphyxiation was a major factor, as CO would work just as quickly with one
person in the chamber.  The students in the train tunnel had much more
oxygen available, and I don't think the engine was running for all 45
minutes, either. 

    Newsgroups trimmed and followups trimmed further.  (I know s.c.j isn't
supposed to be for Holocaust denial; I kept it for those who wanted to
know the refutation of the diesels-can't-kill argument.  I removed it from
the followups.)

    Posted/emailed.
-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.

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