Archive/File: imt/tgmwc/tgmwc-15/tgmwc-15-145.03
Last-Modified: 2000/03/29

Q. Is it known to you that the foreign workers were cared
for by the German Labour Front?

A. Yes.

Q. Also with respect to their health?

A. On only one occasion did I meet a commission from the
Labour Front in my camp.

Q. Do you know of the institution of the Gau camp doctors?

A. It was planned to create an institution of that kind in
Essen, but it did not succeed. At that time, when we had
just had a typhus epidemic, I suggested to the Health Leader
- at that time it was Dr. Heinz Buehler, in Muhlheim - to
institute something of the sort. Then, also, at a meeting I
spoke about my aims, but I did not hear anything more about
it from this Gau office of camp doctors.

Q. That is enough. How many camps did you supervise?

A. That varied. First, there may have been five or six, then
later, maybe seventeen or eighteen; then later the figure
became smaller. But I am not able at this moment to give you
the exact figure.

Q. What was the nature of your task?

A. Above all, I was supposed to assure the medical care of
foreign workers.

Q. Did you have anything to do with the treatment of sick
workers?

A. Only when they were brought to me and when I was in the
camps. I personally always concerned myself with the
individual cases in the camps whenever I inspected them.

Q. You had not only a supervisory capacity but you also
treated them yourself?

A. When I was in a camp I was consulted by the camp doctors
and I advised them.

Q. What was the duty of the camp doctors?

A. The camp physicians had their daily duty in the infirmary
and the treatment of the patients in general.

Q. So your activity was a supervisory one?

                                                  [Page 264]

A. Yes.

Q. Witness, the Prosecutor has repeatedly interrogated you
outside this court room?

A. Yes.

Q. You have been in Nuremberg before, in this building here?
That was when the proceeding started?

A. Yes.

Q. Did you make an affidavit about the conditions in the
Krupp camps?

A. Yes.

Q. I will put this affidavit to you. This is an affidavit of
15th October, 1945. Did you give that affidavit as a witness
for the prosecution?

A. As far as I can remember, yes.

Q. Now I ask you to state whether you still stand on the
statements which you made at that time?

A. Yes.

Q. I shall read the statements to you: "My name is Dr.
Wilhelm Jager. I am a general practitioner in Essen ...."

THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Servatius, we cannot have the whole
document read to him. You can put to him anything you want
to challenge him upon.

DR. SERVATIUS: Very well.

BY DR. SERVATIUS:

Q. You say, at about the middle of the first page:

  "My first official act as senior camp doctor was to make
  a thorough inspection of the various camps. At that time,
  in October, 1942, I found the following conditions ...."
  - and you go on to say - "The Eastern workers and Poles
  who worked in the Krupp works at Essen were kept at camps
  at Seumannstrasse, Grieperstrasse, Spendlerstrasse,
  Hogstrasse, Germaniastrasse, Dechenschule...."

THE PRESIDENT: Are you challenging that?

DR. SERVATIUS: Yes.

THE PRESIDENT: Where were these camps?

DR. SERVATIUS: Yes, that is what I want to ask him.

BY DR. SERVATIUS:

Q. Did these camps exist at the time and were they occupied?

A. As far as I can remember. One has to take into
consideration that, until I started my work, I did not know
at all what camps existed. In a meeting which had been
called where there were physicians of the most various
nationalities I asked first of all what kind of camps these
were. One did not know. Then, for the first time, a list was
provided in which the camps were listed. Then ...

Q. Witness, you have mentioned the camps here by name and
you are not certain that these camps existed at that time,
in October, 1942?

A. As far as I could remember, I listed the camps which
existed at the beginning of my work. I had to go to each one
of these camps personally and I had to depend entirely upon
myself.

Q. Furthermore, you state concerning the food of the Eastern
workers - if you will look at the second page of the
document - the following:

  "The diet prescribed for the Eastern workers was
  altogether insufficient. They were given 1,000 calories a
  day less than the minimum prescribed for any German ...."

THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Servatius, below the names of the camps,
he says:

  "All of the camps were surrounded by barbed wire and were
  closely guarded."

I understand you are challenging that?

                                                  [Page 265]

BY DR. SERVATIUS:

Q. Were the camps surrounded by barbed wire and closely
guarded as it says here?

A. In the beginning, yes.

Q. But you do not know whether that was the same in the case
of all camps, do you?

A. The camps which I visited where they did not know me, for
instance, Kramerplatz and Dechenschule, were closely guarded
and I had to show my credentials in order to get in.

Q. I repeat the question concerning the food. You said the
Eastern workers received 1,000 calories per day less than
the minimum for Germans; whereas German workers who did hard
work received 5,000 calories per day, the Eastern workers
who performed the same kind of work received only 2,000
calories per day. Is that true?

A. That was true at the beginning of my duties. The food for
Eastern workers, as could be seen from the list, had been
determined as to quantity, and there was a difference
between that for Eastern workers and that for German
workers. The 5000 calories mentioned here were given to
specific categories of German workers who did the hardest
type of work. They were not given to everybody.

Q. Witness, I shall put to you a chart of the categories.

DR. SERVATIUS: I submit to the Tribunal a copy of this
chart. It is an exact table of the calories to which the
individual categories of workers were entitled. It begins
with 9th February, 1942, and it shows the individual quotas
for the various types of workers, and on the last page there
is a summary of the average quotas of calories which were
assigned.

It is shown there in the summary Group 1, Eastern workers
and Soviet prisoners of war, average workers 2,156 calories;
heavy workers, 2,615; heaviest workers, 2,909; long time and
night workers, 2,244. Are you familiar with these figures?

A. Approximately.

Q. Will you compare that with what the German workers
received; the normal workers, 2,846 calories; heavy workers,
3,159; heaviest workers, 3,839; long time and night workers,
2,846. Is that in accord with your statement, according to
which you said that German workers received five thousand
calories whereas the Eastern workers received only two
thousand?

THE PRESIDENT: It is very hard to follow these figures
unless you give us the exact page. Are you on the last page?

DR. SERVATIUS: This is a summary ....

THE PRESIDENT: Well, on which page are you?

DR. SERVATIUS: On the last page, the last sheet on the right
side. First, there are the food groups 1, 2, 3, on various
pages, and then on the last page on the right side, next to
Group 3, concerning the Poles there is a summary of calories
for Eastern workers, for Germans and for Poles; and if you
compare here the columns, the amount of calories, then that
should tally with what the witness has stated here. He
singled out the heaviest workers and said that the Germans
received five thousand calories. The table shows that they
received only 3,839. And he says the Eastern workers
received 2,000 calories, whereas according to the table,
they received 2,900 That is, instead of a proportion of
5,000 to 2,000, it is from 2,900 to 3,800, in round figures
a difference of about 1,000 calories, and not, as the
witness has said here, of three thousand calories. Is that
correct? Do you stand on your statement? A distinction has
to be made ....

THE PRESIDENT: I did not hear the witness' answer.

MR. DODD: I think it would be more helpful to the Tribunal
and certainly to the prosecution if it were established who
made up this chart and whether or

                                                  [Page 266]

not the figures given here cover the camps where this
witness had jurisdiction. From looking it over I cannot tell
where it was made up, except on the front page it says:

  "According to the food table by Dr. Hermann Schall,
  Medical Superintendent of the Sanatorium 'West End.'
  Calculations of controlled food supplies for the
  community camps of the firm Krupp ...." And so on.

But these tables can be made up ad lib. and presented to
witnesses. Unless there is some foundation laid, I think it
is an improper way to cross-examine.

DR. SERVATIUS: I have an affidavit which can prove where
that chart comes from.

THE PRESIDENT: Have you ever seen this chart before?

DR. SERVATIUS: It is the affidavit of the witness Hahn.

THE WITNESS: Was a question put to me, please?

DR. SERVATIUS: The witness has the original. It is attached.
May I ask the witness to return the document to me?

THE WITNESS: I wanted to make a statement. At the beginning
of my duties the Eastern workers' food definitely differed
from that of the German people and also from that of the
so-called Western workers, the French and Belgians and so
on. It can be seen from the figures that, even though it may
not be stated exactly, at least there is a difference of 700
to 800 calories. In the beginning until, I believe, February
or March, 1943, the Eastern workers received no additional
rations for long work, heavy work or very heavy work. These
additional quotas were given only when Sauckel had ordered
it, and that was, if I remember correctly, at the beginning
of 1943.

At that time, if I remember correctly, the Eastern workers
were put on an equal footing with the German workers, as far
as food was concerned, and they received special rations for
long work, for heavy work and for very heavy work, which
they had not received before.

BY DR. SERVATIUS:

Q. Witness, if I understand you correctly, you want to say
that this chart may be right but that in reality the workers
did not receive what is listed on the chart. Did I
understand you correctly?

A. Even from this chart you can see the difference.

Q. It was a difference of 3,000 which you mentioned, whereas
the table shows a difference of about 1,000.

A. I said before that there were individual categories of
workers doing the heaviest type of work, such as stokers and
miners, and that they received up to 5,200 calories. But
that was not general. Those were only special workers who
received up to 5,200 calories.

Q. Then what you say here is not correct because you do not
mention that. You say generally that, whereas the German
worker who did the heaviest type of work received 5,000
calories, the Eastern workers who did the same type of work
received only 2,000 calories per day. But that is a general
statement, and it cannot be seen from this that you are
referring to exceptional cases of individual groups of
workers. Is that correct?

A. That is the way I saw it, and I believe that you
understand it as it appears here.

THE PRESIDENT: Now, where does this chart come from, and are
you putting it in? Will you put it in?

DR. SERVATIUS: In the affidavit this assertion is made, and
the witness said clearly at that time that the workers doing
the heaviest type of work, if they were German, received
5,000 calories, and if they were Eastern workers, received
only 2,000 That is a very clear statement in the affidavit,
which is not according to the chart.

                                                  [Page 267]

THE PRESIDENT: Are you offering it in evidence?

DR. SERVATIUS: Yes.

THE PRESIDENT: What will it be? What number will it be?

DR. SERVATIUS: That will be Exhibit No. 11.

THE PRESIDENT: Does the affidavit refer to the chart?

DR. SERVATIUS: I asked whether the affidavit is correct.

THE PRESIDENT: No, I asked whether the affidavit refers to
and identifies the chart, which the witness has just had in
his hand.

DR. SERVATIUS: Yes.

THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Servatius, you have put in an affidavit
by Walter Hahn. Does that affidavit mention the chart and
say where the chart comes from and by whom it was made up,
to what it refers?

DR. SERVATIUS: The affidavit which is here as Document D-228
does not mention the chart, but only the affidavit which I
have submitted - now I understand; it is the affidavit by
the witness Hahn, and the chart is attached and it is
covered by the affidavit made by the witness. That document
I submit in evidence.

THE PRESIDENT: I said the affidavit by Walter Hahn - does it
identify and is it attached to the chart? What page? There
are seven pages, you know. We cannot find it unless you tell
us.

DR. SERVATIUS: In the German text on page four.

THE PRESIDENT: Well, do you mean where it says:

  "The amount of calories contained in this food can be
  seen from the calory table made by me which covers the
  whole period of the war"?

Is that what you mean? That is on page four of our copy. It
is under the heading "C," "Food Supply of French Prisoners
of War and Italian Military Internees."

DR. SERVATIUS: It is there, as I have said before, on page
four of the German text, which says that the nutrition
quotas are shown according to calories, and the calory
amounts can be seen from the calculations which I have made
and which cover the entire duration of the war. That is the
document attached.

THE PRESIDENT: But it is all right to say that the document
is attached, but it does not refer to it by any name.

DR. SERVATIUS: But the document is attached, so that it can
be seen that it must belong to it.

THE PRESIDENT: Very well.

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