Archive/File: imt/tgmwc/tgmwc-12/tgmwc-12-116.03
Last-Modified: 2000/01/27

Q. The prosecution has stated that after 1 September, 1939,
the persecution of the Jews increased more and more. What
was that due to?

A. That question only the Fuehrer could answer; I cannot.

Q. But don't you think this had something to do with the
outbreak of war?

A. The Fuehrer always said so in public, yes.

Q. A proceeding was instituted against you before the
Supreme Party Court. How did that happen? What was the
development and the result of that trial?

A. I am grateful that I have an opportunity to state quite
briefly before the International Military Tribunal something
which I have had to keep silent about up to now because of a
Fuehrer order. I myself had introduced proceedings against
myself before the Supreme Party Court in order to defend
myself against people who were denouncing me. I was being
accused -

THE PRESIDENT: (Interposing) Is the defendant talking about
some order which Hitler gave that he was not to be allowed
to speak or is he talking about something else?

You remember, Dr. Marx, that certain allegations were struck
out of the record. If he is talking about those, it seems to
me that we have got nothing

                                                  [Page 316]

whatever to do with it. Am I right in recollecting that
something was struck out of the record?

DR. MARX: Yes, it was, Mr. President, but only certain
things from the Goering report were struck out, only the one
passage which concerned the affair with the three young
persons; but everything else was retained by the
prosecution. The defence, therefore, can take a stand in
regard to these points, if the prosecution do not say that
they are dropping the entire Goering report, and in that
connection this proceeding before the Supreme Party Court
also plays a role. He can make a brief statement about it.

THE PRESIDENT: All right.

BY DR. MARX:

Q. Be brief, witness, be brief.

A. Yes. It is important, then, that I instituted proceedings
against myself about ten points were involved which had been
raised against me, among them a matter referring to some
shares. An affidavit exists from the Goering report which
states that I had been found guilty. May I state here that
the trial was never completed and no sentence was passed.
That is the answer to the question which you have put to me.

Q. The matter referring to shares, does that have something
to do with the shares of the Marx works?

A. We will come to it later. It was not the main point.

Q. And then you were ordered to remain permanently at the
Pleickershof? Were you under the guard of the Gestapo there,
and was there also a control as far as visitors were
concerned?

A. It is not correct that I was ordered to stay at the
Pleickershof. What is true is that I retired voluntarily
with the intention of never again being active in the Party
Movement. It is correct that the Gestapo watched me, and
every visitor was called to the police station and
interrogated as to the conversations he had had. That is a
fact.

Q. During your stay at the Pleickershof did you have any
connections or correspondence with any leading personalities
of the Party or State?

A. No. As far as prominent persons in the Movement and in
the State are concerned, I had no correspondence whatsoever
with them; that is why the prosecution could hardly find any
letters. I never stated in letters my opinion on the Jewish
problem or on other matters. I shall have to state then - in
order to answer your question exactly - that I had no
correspondence with prominent persons in the Party or the
State.

Q. After the outbreak of the war, were you informed of or
consulted in any way on any measures intended against the
Jews?

A. No.

Q. What were your relations to Himmler? Did you know him at
all closely? Did you ever speak to him about measures
against the Jews or did he talk about intended mass
executions of the Jews?

A. I knew Himmler just as I knew the S.A. leaders, or other
S.S. leaders, I knew him as a result of meetings, Gauleiter
conferences, etc. I did not have a single political
discussion with Himmler, except when he may have touched on
this or that, in the presence of others in a group. The last
time I saw Himmler was in Nuremberg when he spoke to the
officers in their mess. When that was I cannot say exactly
but I think it was shortly before the war. I never had a
talk with him on the Jewish question. He himself was, of
course, well informed on this question. He had an organ of
his own called the "Black Corps." And what his inner
attitude toward me was is something that I did not discover
until my stay on the farm. There were denunciations against
me which reached him. It was stated that I was being too
humane with the French prisoners. Shortly after that I
received a letter in which he reproached me, made serious
charges against me. I gave no answer at all. Without having
made any

                                                  [Page 317]

previous inquiries of me as to whether these denunciations
were true, he made a serious charge against me; and I state
quite openly that it was actually my feeling at the time
that I might possibly lose my liberty through arrest. That
was my relationship with Himmler.

Q. That is enough.

During this trial you have heard mentioned the names of a
great number of Senior S.S. and Police leaders, who played a
leading part in the Jewish persecutions, as for instance,
Heydrich, Eichmann, Ohlendorf and so on. Were there any
connections between you and one of these Senior S.S. and
Police leaders?

A. I heard the names you have mentioned for the first time
during an interrogation here. I did not know these men; they
may well have seen me, but there was never a discussion
involving me and the Senior S.S. or S.A. leaders.
Furthermore, I never was in any of Himmler's offices in
Berlin, or any ministry in Berlin. Thus no conference ever
took place.

Q. The prosecution have drawn the conclusion from numerous
articles in "Der Sturmer," that as early as 1942 and 1943
you must have had knowledge of the mass executions of Jews
which had taken place.

What statement can you make on this, and when and in what
way did you hear of the mass executions of Jews which took
place in the East?

A. I had subscribed to the Jewish weekly that appeared in
Switzerland. Sometimes in that weekly there were intimations
that something was not quite in order; and I think it was at
the end of 1943 or 1944 - I believe 1944 - that an article
appeared in the Jewish weekly, in which it was said that in
the East, I think it was in Poland, Jews were disappearing
in masses. I then made reference to this in an article which
perhaps will be presented to me later. But I state quite
frankly that the Jewish weekly in Switzerland did not
represent for me an authoritative source, that I did not
believe everything in it. This article did not quote
figures; it did not mention mass executions, but only
disappearances.

Q. Have you finished?

A. Yes.

Q. Did you make proposals in "Der Sturmer" for the solution
of the Jewish question - even during the war?

A. Yes.

Q. And in what sense?

A. As I said yesterday, I represented the point of view that
the Jewish question could be solved only internationally,
since there were Jews in all countries. For that reason we
published articles in my weekly journal referring to the
Zionist demand for the creation of a Jewish State, such as
had also been provided for or indicated in the Balfour
declaration. There were, therefore, two possibilities for a
solution, a preliminary solution within the countries
through appropriate laws, and then the creation of a Jewish
State.

During the war, I think it was in 1941 or 1942, we had
written another  article - we were subject to the Berlin
censorship - and the censorship office sent back the proof
submitted with the remark that the article must not be
published since we had proposed Madagascar as the place in
which to establish a Jewish State. The political relations
with France were given as the reason why that article should
not be published.

Q. If you had expected that question to be solved by mass
executions, would you then have written this article?

A. In that case, at any rate, it would have been nonsensical
to publish it.

Q. Did you not feel uneasy in dealing with the Jewish
question in a biased way - in a way which left completely
out of sight those qualities of the Jews which can be
described as great?

A. I did not understand that question fully, perhaps I did
not hear it correctly.

Q. You can be accused of treating, in a biased way, only
those qualities of

                                                  [Page 318]

the Jews that appear respectable to you, whereas the other
qualities of the Jewish people you ignored. What is your
explanation?

A. I think that this question is really superfluous here. It
is perfectly natural that I, as an anti-Semitic person and
as I saw the Jewish question, was in no way interested in
that. Perhaps I did not see the good traits which you or
some others see in the Jews. That is possible. But at any
rate I was not interested in investigating as to what
particular good qualities might be recognised here.

Q. Thank you.

THE PRESIDENT: This would seem a good time to break off.

(A recess was taken.)

Q. Did you visit concentration camps?

A. Yes. I visited the concentration camp at Dachau.

Q. When was that?

A. I believe the first time was when all the Gauleiter were
called together. I believe 1935, I don't know definitely -
1934 or 1935 - I don't know.

Q. At what intervals did you then visit this camp. It is
said that you were in Dachau every four weeks.

Herr Streicher, will you make a short pause after each of my
questions before you begin with your answer?

A. Will you please repeat that?

Q. It is asserted that you were in Dachau every four weeks.
At what intervals were you there?

A. Altogether I was at Dachau four times.

Q. It is asserted that after each of your visits in Dachau,
Jews disappeared there.

A. That I don't know - whether Jews disappeared.

Q. What caused you to visit the Dachau camp repeatedly?

A. I went to the Dachau camp to visit Social Democratic and
Communist functionaires from my Gau who were in prison there
- to have them introduced to me. I looked up - I don't know
how many hundreds of them there were - but every time I was
in Dachau I looked up ten or twenty of those of whom it had
been ascertained by the police that they had no criminal
record; I had them picked out of the camp population, and at
Christmas every year I had them brought to Nuremberg to the
Hotel Deutscher Hof, where I brought them together with
their wives and children and had dinner with them.

I should like to ask the Tribunal, for the benefit of the
Nuremberg public, to permit me to make a very short
statement as to why I took these Communists out. Party
proceedings were initiated against me because I did this.
There were rumours which were not true. May I make a very
short statement as to why I did it?

DR. MARX: I should like to ask the Tribunal to approve this,
Mr. President, so that the reasons why the defendant did
this may be ascertained.

THE PRESIDENT: Yes, as long as it is brief.

Q. Be brief.

A. When I walked through the streets of Nuremberg children
approached me and said, "My father is in Dachau." Women came
to me and asked to get their husbands back. I knew many of
these officials from the time when I spoke at revolutionary
meetings, and I could vouch for these people. I know of only
one case where I was wrong in the selection of those people.
All the others behaved impeccably. They kept the word which
they had given me. Thus, perhaps my Party associates, who
sit here in the dock, see now that I did not want to harm my
country but that I wanted to do, and did do, something
humanely good.

                                                  [Page 319]

Q. Now I come to the picture books which appeared in "Der
Sturmer" publishing house. You know that two picture books
were published, one with the title "Trust no Fox in the
Field," and the other one with the title "The Poisonous
Toadstool. " Do you assume responsibility for these picture
books?

A. Yes. May I say, by way of summary, that I assume
responsibility for everything which was written by my
assistants or which came in to my publishing house.

Q. Who was the author of these picture books?

A. The book "Trust no Fox in the Field and No Jew under His
Oath" was done by a young woman artist, and she also wrote
the text. The title which appears on the picture book is by
Dr. Martin Luther.

The second picture book was done by the editor-in-chief of
"Der Sturmer," who was a former schoolteacher. Two criminal
cases in Nuremberg, which were tried here in this courtroom,
as far as I know, were the occasion for my publishing these
two books. There was a manufacturer, Louis Schloss, a Jew,
who with young Nuremberg girls had ...

Q. Herr Streicher, we do not want to hear that now. My
question was only as to who was the author of these books
and whether you assumed the responsibility for them?

A. It is important for the Tribunal, in fact, right for them
to know how it came about that all of a sudden two picture
books for young people appeared in my publishing house. I am
making this statement absolutely objectively. I am speaking
here of legal cases. There are gentlemen here who are
witnesses, who were here in this court and were present
during the proceedings. Only thus can one understand why
these books were published. They were the answer to deeds
that had occurred.

Q. Yes, but we are concerned here only with the accusation
made against you, that you exerted an influence on the minds
of young people which was not beneficial, and which could be
considered designed to have a poisonous effect.

A. And I should like to prove by my statement that we wanted
to protect youth, because things had, in fact, occurred.

Q. Yes, but young persons could hardly understand the
Schloss case, or any such case, could they?

A. It was a matter of public discussion in Nuremberg and all
over Germany.

Q. As far as I am concerned, this question is answered, Mr.
President.

A. But not for me as defendant.

THE PRESIDENT: You told us that the books were published to
answer things which had occurred here. That is sufficient.

Q. Witness, another serious accusation made by the
prosecution against you is that a special issue concerning
ritual murders was published in the publishing house of "Der
Sturmer" and appeared in one number of "Der Sturmer." How
did this special issue come about and what was the cause for
it. Were you the author of that special issue?

A. No.

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