Archive/File: imt/tgmwc/tgmwc-12/tgmwc-12-113.03
Last-Modified: 2000/01/25

DR. SEIDL: This concerns an entry dated 22 September, 1943,
a meeting of the War Economy Staff and the Defence
Committee. I quote only the first lines:-

  "In the course of the past few months, in the face of the
  most difficult and senseless struggles, I have had to
  work on the principle that the Poles should, at last, be
  given a sufficient quantity of food. You all know the
  foolish attitude of looking on the nations we have
  conquered as being inferior to us, and that at a moment
  when the labour potential of these peoples represents one
  of the most important factors in our fight for victory.
  By my opposition to this absurdity, which has caused most
  grievous harm to the German people, I personally - and
  many men of my Government and many of you - have incurred
  the charge of being friendly or soft towards the Poles.
  
  For years now people have not hesitated to attack my way
  of governing this area with the foulest arguments of this
  kind, and, behind my back, to hinder the fulfilment of
  these tasks. Now it has been proved as clear as day that
  it is insane to want to reconstruct Europe and at the
  same time to persecute the European nations with such
  unparalleled chicanery."

And then I turn to Page 34 of the document book, an entry
dated 20 April, 1943, concerning a government meeting. I ask
the Tribunal to note only the final words of the Governor
General's speech on Page 38 of the document book and Page 41
of the diary. Then I turn to Page 39 of the document book, a
meeting dated 22 July, 1943 ; I quote from the second
paragraph, the tenth line:-

  "The question of the resettlement was, in general,
  particularly difficult for us in this year. I can give
  you the good news that resettlement in general has been
  completely discontinued for the duration of the war. In
  regard to the restoration of industry, we have just
  started to work at full speed. As you know - I personally
  attach great importance to this - we have to satisfy the
  needs of the Reich, and in the coming months we shall
  install great industrial concerns of international renown
  in the Government General.
  
  However, in regard to this question we must consider the
  almost complete reconstruction of the Government General
  which has consequently been forced upon us. While until
  now, we have always figured as a country supplying the
  Reich with labourers, as an agricultural country and the
  granary of Europe, we shall within a very short time
  become one of the most important industrial centres of
  Europe. I remind you of such names as Krupp, Heinkel,
  Henschel, whose industries will be moved into the
  Government General."

I now ask the Tribunal to turn to Page 41 of the document
book. It is the

                                                  [Page 196]

statement which was made by the witness Dr. Buehler on 26
October, 1943, in which he states that this report dealt
with four years of reconstruction in the Government General
on the basis of reliable information, from the 13 chief
departments. The statement includes Pages 42 to 69 of the
document book. I do not propose to quote from this
statement, but I ask the Tribunal to take judicial notice of
it.

I turn at once to Page 70 of the document book, which
concerns a government meeting dated 16 February, 1944. I
quote the last paragraph, Page 4 of the document book:-

  "As opposed to this, the fact must be established that
  the developing, constructing and securing of those things
  which today make this territory important, were possible
  only because, in opposition to the ideology of brute
  force so utterly untimely in the midst of a world war, we
  were able to bring into the service of the German war
  effort the human and material resources of this area, and
  to do this in a constructive and sound manner."

The next quotation is from Page 75, Page 5 of the diary, an
entry dated 6 March, 1944. I quote the last paragraph:-

  "The Governor General does not, as a matter of principle,
  oppose the training of the younger generation for the
  priesthood, because, if courses for doctors and others
  are arranged, similar opportunities must also be created
  in the field of religion."

Page 77 deals with an order by the Governor General
prohibiting the evacuation of the population, or that part
of it which was in the fighting zone near Lublin. On Page 80
is an entry dated 12 April, 1944. I quote the second
paragraph:-

  "In this connection, President Gerteis spoke of the
  treatment of the Poles in the Reich. The result of this
  treatment, said to be still worse than that of any other
  foreign workers, was that practically no Pole would any
  longer voluntarily apply for work in Germany. There were
  21 points, Gerteis said, on which the Polish workers in
  the Reich were more badly treated than any other foreign
  workers. The Governor General requested President Gerteis
  to acquaint him with these 21 points, which he would
  certainly attempt to have abolished."

I now ask the Tribunal to turn to Page 100 of the document
book. It concerns a conference on 6 June regarding a large-
scale action against the partisans in the Bilgoraje Forest.
I quote Page 101, Page 4 of the diary:-

  "The Governor General wants to be quite sure that
  protection is given to the harmless population, which is
  itself suffering under the partisan terror."

Page 102 deals with the views of the Governor General on
concentration camps. It is an entry dated 6 June, 1944. I
quote the last paragraph:-

  "The Governor General declared that he would never sign
  such a decree, since it meant sending the person
  concerned to a concentration camp. He stated that he had
  always protested with the utmost vigour against the
  system of the concentration camps, for he saw in it the
  greatest offence against the sense of justice. He had
  thought there would be no concentration camps for such
  matters, but they had apparently been secretly put into
  operation. It could only be handled in such a manner that
  the persons condemned would be 'pardoned to jail or
  prison for a certain number of years.' He pointed out
  that prison sentences, for instance, were imposed and
  examined by State institutions. He therefore requests
  that State Secretary Dr. Buehler should be informed that
  he, the Governor General, would not sign such a decree,
  since he did not wish the concentration camps to be
  officially sanctioned. He went on to say that there was
  no reprieve which could send anybody into a concentration
  camp. The courts-martial
  
                                                  [Page 197]
  
  are State organs of a special character and consist of
  police units; actually they should normally be staffed by
  members of the Armed Forces."

THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Seidl, can you explain the translation of
the words at the bottom of Page 202 which are in English,
"It only could be handled in a manner that the persons would
be pardoned to jail or prison for a certain number of
years." Can you explain that from the point of view of
meaning?

DR. SEIDL: The meaning of the words becomes clear from the
statement made by President Wille in the previous paragraph
where, among others, you will find the following. It is the
tenth line from the top:-

  "The Reprieve Commission had asked the representative of
  the Security Police Chief, in which form this pardon was
  to be carried out. As far as he knew, the sentence had
  been imposed in one case only. In all other cases it was
  customary to adopt security police measures once the
  sentence had been remitted. It was feared, otherwise,
  that these people might disappear."

Now the Governor General was of the opinion that, for
example, a reprieve from the death sentence to a term in
prison or penitentiary, was possible, but that he would have
to refuse commutation of a death penalty into an indefinite
prison sentence (Freiheitsstrafe) if the police in that
event wore to adopt security measures.

THE PRESIDENT: You mean that it meant that pardon from a
death sentence might be made by a reprieve for a sentence in
prison for a certain number of years, but not by sending to
a concentration camp, which would be for an indefinite
period and under police methods?

DR. SEIDL: Yes, that is the sense of it.

I now turn to Page 104 of the document book. This question
also deals with the general question of treatment of the
population in the Government General.

THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Seidl, you have been very much longer
than you said you would, and the Tribunal thinks you might
be able to cut down a great deal of this. It is all very
much on the same lines.

DR. SEIDL: Yes. In that case, I ask the Tribunal to turn to
Page 112 of the document book; an entry dated 10 July, 1944.
This entry deals with the official control of art treasures.
I quote the second paragraph:-

  "The Governor General issues orders to President
  Palizieux to establish a complete index of these art
  treasures."

THE PRESIDENT: You have already told us and given us some
evidence to support the view that the defendant Frank was
preserving the art treasures and was wishing them to be
preserved in Poland, and it is not necessary under those
circumstances to go reading passages about it.

DR. SEIDL: Yes, I ask the Tribunal to take notice of that
entry and, if the Tribunal agrees, I shall merely give the
pages of the documents in the document book which appear to
me important. That is page ...

(There was a breakdown in the sound recording system.)

My Lord, there is a breakdown on channel which causes so
much interruption that we cannot hear the speaker I am
afraid.

THE PRESIDENT: Very well, the Tribunal will adjourn.

(A recess was taken.)


DR. SEIDL: Gentlemen of the Tribunal, if the Tribunal is
agreeable I should like to give only the numbers of the
pages of Volume 4 of the document book which seem to me
particularly important. These are the Pages 115, 121, 123,
134, 139, 152 and 182. That concludes Volume 4 of the
document book and I come to the last volume of the document
book which will be finished in much less time. Volume 5
deals exclusively with the accusations made by the
prosecution

                                                  [Page 198]

of the United States against the defendant Frank concerning
his activity as President of the Academy for German Law, as
President of the National Socialist Organisation, and
similar positions. Volume 1, Page 1, is a document which has
already been submitted by the prosecution, 1391-PS. It still
has no USA number and will be Exhibit Frank-11. It is the
law regarding the Academy for German Law with the necessary
statutes and the tasks resulting therefrom.

I turn to Page 25 of the document book. This quotation
becomes Exhibit Frank-12. It deals with a sentence which has
been ascribed to the defendant: "Right is that which serves
the people." This quotation should prove only that the
defendant Dr. Frank only wanted to express what is implied
in the Roman sentence: "Salus publica suprema lex," "The
supreme law is what serves the people." I shall ask the
Tribunal to take cognisance of this and turn to Page 26 of
the document book; an excerpt from the magazine of the
Academy for German Law of 1938. That will be the Exhibit
Frank-13. This quotation also deals with the aforementioned
sentence: "Right is that which serves the people."

Page 30 is an excerpt from Exhibit USA-670 and deals with
the closing celebration on the "Day of German Law 1939" at
Leipzig, where the defendant Dr. Frank made the concluding
speech before 25,000 lawyers. I quote from Page 31, line 10
from the bottom:-

  "Only by applying legal security methods, by
  administering true justice, and by clearly following the
  legislative ideal of law can the community continue to
  exist. This legal method, which permanently ensures the
  fulfilment of the tasks of the community has been
  assigned to you, fellow guardians of the law, as your
  mission. Ancient Germanic principles have come down to us
  through the centuries.
  
  (1) No one who has not had the opportunity of defending
  himself shall be judged.
  
  (2) No one shall lose the rights which he enjoys in
  accordance with national standards, except by decision of
  the judge. Honour, liberty, life, profits of labour are
  among those rights.
  
  (3) Regardless of the nature of the proceedings, the
  reasons for the indictment or the law which applies,
  everyone who is under indictment must be given the
  opportunity to take a defence counsel who can make legal
  statements for him; be must obtain a hearing which is
  legal and objective."

I turn to Page 35 of the document book, which deals with a
speech, an address by the defendant Dr. Frank, made at a
meeting of the heads of the main departments of the National
Socialist Lawyers' Organisation, on 19 November, 1941. The
speech becomes Exhibit Frank-14. I quote only a few
sentences at the top of Page 37:-

  "Therefore, it is a very serious task which we have
  imposed upon ourselves, and we must always bear in mind
  that it can be fulfilled only with courage and self-
  sacrifice. I observe the developments with great
  attention. I watch every anti-juridical tendency. I know
  only too well from history - as do you all - of the
  attempts to obtain ever more power because one has
  weapons with which to shoot, and because one has some
  authority on the basis of which one can cause people who
  have been arrested to disappear. I mean by this not only
  the attempts undertaken by the S.S., the S.D. and by the
  Central Police Office, but the attempts of many other
  agencies of the State and the Reich to exclude themselves
  from general jurisdiction."

I turn to ... I would like to quote the last five lines on
Page 41. These were the last words spoken during that
session:-

  "One cannot debase law to a commercial item; one cannot
  sell it; it
  
                                                  [Page 199]
  
  exists or it does not exist. Law is not an exchange
  commodity. If Justice is not supported, the State loses
  its moral foundation; it sinks into the abyss of darkness
  and horror."

The next document is on Page 42. It is the first address
which the defendant Dr. Frank made in Berlin at the
University on 8 July, 1942. It will be Exhibit Frank-15. I
quote from Page 44, second paragraph, seventh line:

  "On the other hand, however, a member of the community
  cannot be deprived of honour, liberty, life and property,
  he cannot be expelled and condemned without first being
  able to defend himself against the charges brought
  against him. The Armed Forces can serve us as a model in
  this respect. In the Wehrmacht every one is a free,
  honoured member with equal rights, until a judge -
  standing independently above him - has weighed and judged
  between indictment and defence."

I then turn to Page 49 of the document book, the second of
these four long speeches. It was held in Vienna, and will
become Exhibit Frank-15.

THE PRESIDENT: We have already had Exhibit Frank-15 on Page
41.

DR. SEIDL: No, I beg your pardon, Mr. President; it will be
16. I quote only one sentence, from Page 51:

  "I shall continue to repeat with all the strength of my
  convictions that it would be a shame if ideals advocating
  a police State were to be presented as distinctly
  National Socialist ideals, while old Germanic ideals of
  law fell entirely into the background."

Now I ask the Tribunal to turn to Page 57 of the document
book, to the speech made by the defendant Dr. Frank at the
University of Munich, on 20 July, 1942. This will be Exhibit
Frank-17. I quote from Page 58, line 16:

  "It is, however, impossible to talk about a national
  community and still to regard the servants of the Law as
  excluded therefrom and to pull them into the mire in the
  midst of the war. The Fuehrer has transferred the tasks
  of the Reich leader of the Reich Legal Office and that of
  the leader of the National Socialistic Lawyers'
  Association to me, and therefore it is my duty to state
  that it is detrimental to German national community if,
  in the 'Black Corps', lawyers are called 'sewer-rats.'"

I ask the Tribunal to turn to Page 67 of the document book.
That is the speech which he made at Heidelberg on 21 July,
1942, and will be Exhibit Frank-18. I ask the Tribunal to
take judicial notice of that speech. From Page 69 I quote
only one sentence: "But never should there be a police
State, never. That I oppose."

I now come to the last document, which the prosecution of
the United States has already submitted as Exhibit USA 607,
an excerpt from the diary: "Concluding reflections on the
events of the last three months." In these reflections, Dr.
Frank once more definitely states his position toward the
concept of the legal State, and I ask the Tribunal to take
particular cognisance of his basic postulates on Pages 74
and 75 of the document book. Here, Dr. Frank again
formulated the prerequisites which he considered necessary
for the existence of any legal State.

I only quote a few lines from Page 74:

  "(1) No fellow German can be convicted without regular
  court procedure, and on the basis of a law in effect
  before the act was committed.
  
  (2) The proceedings must carry full guarantee that the
  accused will be interrogated on all matters pertaining to
  the indictment and that he will be able to speak freely.
  
  (3) The accused must have the opportunity, at all stages
  of the trial, to avail himself of the services of a
  defence counsel acquainted with the law.
  
  (4) The defence counsel must have complete freedom of
  action and
  
                                                  [Page 200]
  
  independence in carrying out his office in order to
  strike an even balance between the State Prosecutor and
  the defendant.
  
  (5) The judge or the court must make his or its decision
  quite independently - that is, the verdict must not be
  influenced by any irrelevant factors - in logical
  consideration of the subject matter and in just
  application of the content of the law.
  
  (6) When the penalty meted out by the sentence has been
  paid, then the act has been atoned for.
  
  (7) Measures for protective custody and security custody
  may not be undertaken or carried out by police organs,
  any more than measures for the punishment of
  concentration camp inmates, except from this same point
  of view, that is, upon approval of the intended action by
  the regular, independent judges.
  
  (8) In the same manner, the administration of justice for
  fellow Germans must guarantee full safeguarding of
  individual interests in all relations pertaining to civil
  suits proper."

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