Archive/File: imt/tgmwc/tgmwc-12/tgmwc-12-113.02
Last-Modified: 2000/01/25

THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Seidl, if you will give us the pages in
your document book now, that will be sufficient for the
present, because they seem to correspond.

DR. SEIDL: Very well. May I continue, Mr. President?

THE PRESIDENT: I think so, yes.

DR. SEIDL: I then come to Page 38 in the document book. This
entry deals with a draft submitted by Himmler, which has
already been mentioned, regarding the treatment of aliens in
the community. I quote:-

  "The Governor General orders the following letter to be
  sent to Landgerichtsrat Taschner:-
  
  'Please inform Reichminister Dr. Lammers of my opinion as
  follows with my signature, certified by yourself: I am
  opposed to the law on the treatment of non-German people
  - Gemeinschaftsfremder - and I request that a date be
  set, as early as possible, for a meeting of the leading
  officials in regard to the draft, so that it will be
  possible to set, forth the principal legal viewpoints
  which today still emphatically contradict this proposal
  in detail. I shall personally attend this meeting. In my
  opinion it is entirely impossible to circumvent the
  regular courts and to transfer such far-reaching
  authority exclusively to the police organisations. The
  intended 'Spruchstelle,' or Court, with the
  Reichssicherheitshauptamt - Reich Security Headquarters -
  cannot take the place of a regular court in the eyes of
  the people.'"

On Page 39 I quote the last paragraph but one of this
letter:-

  "For that reason I object to this draft in its present
  form, especially with regard to paragraph I of the
  decree, concerning its execution.'"

Page 40 is an entry dated 7 June, 1942, which also deals
with that question of denationalisation so emphatically
denied by the Governor General. I ask the Tribunal to take
judicial notice of this document. The next quotation is on
Page 47 and deals with the acquisition of Chopin's
compositions. I quote paragraph 2:-

  "President Dr. Watzke reports that it would be possible
  to procure in Paris the major part of Chopin's
  compositions, for the State Library in Cracow. The
  Governor General approves of the purchase of Chopin's
  compositions by the Administration of the Government
  General."

Page 50 deals with an entry in the diary which concerns the
securing of agricultural property. I quote Page 767 of the
diary, paragraph 2:-

  "It is my aim to bring about agricultural reform in
  Galicia by every  possible, means, even during the war. I
  have thus kept the promises which I made one year ago in
  my proclamation to the population of this territory.
  Further progress of a beneficial nature can therefore
  result through the loyal co-operation of the population
  with the German authorities. The

                                                  [Page 192]
  
  German administration in this area is willing, and has
  also been given orders to help the population. It will
  protect the loyal population of this area with the same
  decisive and fundamental firmness with which it will
  suppress any attempt of resistance against the order
  established by the Greater German Reich. For this purpose
  I have issued an additional decree concerning the duties
  of the German Administration for Food and Agriculture in
  Galicia, for the protection of the individual farmer."

I turn to Page 55 of the document book. This concerns a
speech made by the Governor General before the leaders of a
Polish Delegation, and I quote the last paragraph on Page
56, line 6:-

  "I hope that the new harvest will place us in a position
  to assist the Polish Aid Committee. In any event we will
  do whatever we can to check the crisis. It is also in our
  interests that the Polish population enjoy their work and
  co-operate. We do not want to exterminate or annihilate
  anybody."

Page 61 of the document book deals with a conference which
the Governor General held with the General Plenipotentiary
for Labour. I quote the last paragraph on. Page 919 of the
diary:-

  "I would also like to take this opportunity of expressing
  to you, Party Comrade Sauckel, our willingness to do
  everything that is humanly possible. However, I should
  like to add one request: it concerns the treatment of
  Polish workers in the Reich, who are still subject to
  certain degrading restrictions."

I turn to Page 62 and quote line 10:-

  "I can assure you, Party Comrade Sauckel, that it would
  be a tremendous help in recruiting workers if at least
  part of the degrading restrictions against the Poles in
  the Reich could be abolished. I believe this could be
  effected."

I now turn to Page 66 of the document book. This is the only
entry in the diary of the defendant Dr. Frank which he has
signed personally. It is a memorandum on the development in
the Government General after he (the Governor General) had
been relieved of all his positions in the Party and had
repeatedly stated that he was resigning and hoped that now
at last his resignation would be accepted.

I ask the Tribunal to take judicial notice of this final
survey, dated September, 1942. It consists of five pages: 66
to 71.

The next quotation is on Page 77 and deals with the safe-
guarding of art treasures. I quote the fifth and last line.
It is a statement made by the Governor General:-

  "Art treasures were carefully restored and cleaned, so
  that approximately ninety per cent. of all the art
  treasures of the former State of Poland in the territory
  of the Government General could be secured. These art
  treasures are entirely the property of the Government
  General."

I ask the Tribunal to turn to Page 92 of this volume. It is
an entry dated 8 December, 1942, which was made on the
occasion of a meeting of departmental chiefs and which deals
with the supply situation. I ask the Tribunal to take
judicial notice of that entry.

The same is true of the entry on Page 93, in which the
Governor General speaks of the question of recruiting
workers and severely condemns all forcible measures.

The next entry, which appears important to me and which
should be read into the record, begins on Page 108. It
concerns a Press conference, and I ask the Tribunal to turn
directly to Page 110. I quote the third paragraph:-

  "The Governor General sums up the result of the
  conference and states that with the participation of the
  President of the Main Propaganda

                                                  [Page 193]
  
  Department and the Press Chief of the Government, all
  points will be comprised in a directive to be issued to
  all leading editors of the Polish papers. Instructions
  for the handling of foreign affairs in the Press and in
  the cultural field will be included in this directive.
  The conciliatory spirit of the Reich will serve as a rule
  for future conduct."

I now ask the Tribunal to turn to Page 127 of the document
book, a labour meeting of 26 May, 1943, which deals with the
question of food. I quote the sixth line:-

  "We must understand that the first problem is the feeding
  of the Polish population, but I would like to say, with
  complete authority, that whatever happens with the coming
  rationing period in the Government General, I shall, in
  any case, allot to the largest possible number of the
  population such food rations as we can justifiably afford
  in view of our commitments toward the Reich. Nothing and
  nobody will divert me from this goal."

Page 131 of the document book deals with a committee of the
Governor General for supplies for the non-German working
population. I ask the Tribunal to take judicial notice of
these statements and I now turn to Page 141. This entry also
deals with the food situation. I quote the tenth line from
the bottom:-

  "After examining all possibilities I have now ordered
  that from 1 September of this year, in regard to the food
  situation, the Polish population of this territory shall
  also be granted a generous allotment. By September I of
  this year we shall introduce, for the population of this
  territory, the rations which are the so-called 'Warthegau
  rations'."

I ask permission to quote a few sentences from Page 142:-

  "I should like to make a statement to you now. From the
  seriousness with which I utter these words, you can judge
  what I have in mind. I myself, and the men of my
  Government, are fully aware of the needs of the Polish
  population in this district. We are not here to
  exterminate or, annihilate it, nor to torment these
  people beyond the measure of suffering bestowed upon them
  by fate. I hope that we shall come to satisfactory terms
  in all matters that sometimes keep us apart. I personally
  have nothing against the Poles."

I turn to Page 148. This is a conference which deals with
young medical students and on the next page, paragraph 2, is
a statement by the Governor General:-

  "First, we can safely say that this Ministry of Health,
  though not known by this name, is something entirely new.
  This main department in matters of health will have to
  deal with important problems. There is, among the
  physicians in this territory - "

Mr. President, I have just discovered that an error may
possibly have occurred, since this statement was perhaps not
made by the Governor General himself but by the head of the
Main Health Department. I shall examine this question again
and then submit the result to the Tribunal in writing.

I now turn to Page 155 of the document book. This entry
seems to me to be vital. It is dated 14 July, 1943, and
deals with the establishment of a Secretary of State on
security matters.

THE PRESIDENT: It is not in our book, apparently. We haven't
got a Page 155 and we haven't got a date, I think, of 14
July.

DR. SEIDL: It is July, 1943. It has probably been omitted.
With the approval of the Tribunal, I shall read the
sentences in question into the record. There are only three.

  "The Governor General points out the disastrous effect
  exercised by the establishment of a Secretary of State
  for Security on the authority of the Governor General. He
  said that a new police and S.S. government had tried to
  establish itself in opposition to the Governor General
  and that
  
                                                  [Page 194]
  
  this could only be suppressed with the expenditure of a
  great deal of energy at the very last moment."

I then ask the Tribunal to turn to Page 166 of the document
book. This entry deals with general questions regarding the
policy in Poland. I ask the Tribunal to take judicial notice
of this document.

Page 193 deals with the establishment of the Chopin Museum
which was created by the Governor General. I quote Page 1154
of the Diary, which is an extract from the Governor
General's speech:-

  "Today I have inaugurated the Chopin Museum in Cracow. We
  have saved and brought to Cracow, under most difficult
  circumstances, the most valuable memorial pieces of the
  greatest of Polish musicians. I merely wanted to say this
  in order to show you that I want to make a personal
  effort to put things in order in this country as far as
  possible."

The last quotation is on Page 199 of Volume 2 of the
document book. It is an extract from a speech which
Reichsfuehrer S. S. Himmler made on the occasion of the
installation of the new S.S. and Police Leader in Cracow,
before the members of the Government and the higher S.S. and
Police Leaders. This is the speech which the defendant Dr.
Frank mentioned when he was examined. I quote the eighth
line from the bottom:-

  "You are all very familiar with the situation. Sixteen
  million aliens and about two hundred thousand - if we
  include the members of the police and Wehrmacht, perhaps
  three hundred thousand - Germans live here. These sixteen
  million aliens, augmented in the past by a large number
  of Jews, who have now emigrated or have been sent to the
  East, consist largely of Poles and to a lesser decree of
  Ukrainians."

I turn to the last document of this volume, Page 200, an
entry dated 14 December, 1943. It concerns a speech which
the Governor General made before officers of the Air Force.
I quote the second paragraph:-

  "Therefore, everything should be done to keep the
  population quiet, peaceful and in order. Nothing should
  be done to create unnecessary agitation among them. I
  mention only one example here:-
  
  It would be wrong if now, during the war, we were to
  undertake the establishment of large German settlements
  among the alien peasantry in this territory. This attempt
  at colonising, mostly through force, would lead to
  tremendous unrest among the unified peasant population.
  This, in turn, from the point of view of production,
  would result in a grave reduction of the harvest, the
  curtailment of cultivation, etc. It would also be wrong
  forcibly to deprive the population of its churches or of
  any possibility of leading a simple, cultural life."

I turn to Page 201, and I quote the last paragraph:-

   "We needs must take care of these territories and their
   population, I have found, to my pleasure and that of ail
   my colleagues, that this point of view has prevailed and
   that everything t1hat was formerly said against the
   alleged friendship with the Poles or against the
   softness of this point of view, has sunk into oblivion
   in face of the facts."

That completes Volume II of the document book - I beg your
pardon; I meant Volume III. Now I come to Volume IV.

Page 1 deals with a conversation which took place on 25
January, 1943, with the S.S. Obergruppenfuehrer Kruger. I
quote the last paragraph:-

  "The Governor General states that he had not been
  previously informed about the large-scale action to seize
  anti-social elements and that this procedure was in
  opposition to the Fuehrer's decree of 7 May, 1942,
  according to which the Secretary of State for Security
  must obtain the
  
                                                  [Page 195]
  
  approval of the Governor General before carrying out
  instructions by the Reichsfuehrer S.S. and Chief of the
  German Police. State Secretary Kruger states that this
  concerned a secret order which was to be carried out very
  suddenly."

I ask the Tribunal to take cognisance of the fact that this
is merely an example of many similar discussions and
differences of opinion.

I now turn to Page 24 of the document book. This concerns a
meeting of the War Economy Staff and the Defence Committee
on 22 September, 1943. I hope that the pages tally again.

THE PRESIDENT: You said Page 24, didn't you?

DR. SEIDL: Page 24, an entry of 22 September, 1943.

THE PRESIDENT: It looks as though the paging is right. Our
book has Page 24 at the top, so perhaps you will continue to
quote the page for a moment or two. We will see whether it
goes on right.

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