Archive/File: imt/tgmwc/tgmwc-11/tgmwc-11-107.02
Last-Modified: 2000/01/13

THE INTERPRETER: On the right-hand side the document bears
the initials in ink SCH and then several symbols: Z-RV-K
4030-519/41 g. And below that 13AOC. At the left on top:

  "The Higher S.S. and Police Leader attached to the Reich
  Governor at Vienna and in the Upper and Lower Danube
  districts within the Armed Forces District XVII. To the
  Inspector of the Public Order Police."

Below that there are several file numbers.

The document bears the heading "Secret."

                                                  [Page 331]

It is dated "Vienna, 14th October, 1941."

   "Subject: Technical Report on the battles in the East."

THE PRESIDENT: Is that right - 14th October, 1941?

THE INTERPRETER: Yes, 14th October, 1941.

THE PRESIDENT: The previous date that was given was January,
1942. What is the explanation of that?

COLONEL AMEN: It covers the month - I think there are two
different documents. You are giving the date on one. There
is a different date on the other. Is that not correct?

THE INTERPRETER: That is correct.

COLONEL AMEN: Well, give us the date on the other document
so that the record will be clear.

THE PRESIDENT: Colonel Amen, we shall be able to understand
when we see the document.

COLONEL AMEN: Yes, your Lordship. Go right ahead.

THE INTERPRETER: The date of the second document is 23rd
April, 1942.

COLONEL AMEN: Go ahead.

THE INTERPRETER: I continue: "Subject: Technical Report on
the battles in the East. - Reference:" and then come series
file numbers.

  "The above decree of the Reich Fuehrer S.S. and Chief of
  the German Police in the Ministry of the Interior, and
  also one copy each of the technical reports of the Army
  Command North and the S.S. Police Division, are herewith
  forwarded to you for your information and use." The order
  is signed "Miegel."

COLONEL AMEN: Now, will you just go on to the distribution
list and read, if you find it on the list, this defendant's
name.

THE INTERPRETER: The name of the defendant is not on this
distribution. I am coming to the next document.

COLONEL AMEN: Well, it is!

THE INTERPRETER: No, it is not contained in this document
and I am now reading the second document.

  "Berlin, 27th February, 1942. The Chief of the Security
  Police and the S.D., IVA-1" and then several different
  file references. "Top Secret. Subject: Activity and
  situation report No. 9 of the Special Operation Groups of
  the Security Police and the S.D. in the U.S.S.R. Attached
  hereto - "

COLONEL AMEN: Just a minute. He is reading the wrong
document, your Lordship. We will have it straight in a
minute.

THE INTERPRETER: I am told I am reading the right document,
It is the right document. I continue.

  "Herewith attached, I submit to you the ninth
  comprehensive report on the state of the activities of
  the Special Operation Groups of the Security Police and
  of the S.D. in the U.S.S.R. Similar reports in the future
  will be sent to you currently as they appear.
  
  (Signed) Heydrich."

Then there is a stamp: "The Reich Defence Commissar of the
Armed Forces, District XVII, received 5th March, 1942," and
then follows the distribution and number 13 reads: "To the
Higher S.S. and Police Leader, S.S. Gruppenfuehrer Dr.
Kaltenbrunner."

COLONEL AMEN: His name is on the list, isn't it? Now, if you
will pass to "C" on that document -

THE INTERPRETER: I now read from Page 9 of the document, an
extract under the heading "C. Jews."

  "The attitude of the Jews is still clearly hostile to the
  Germans and criminal. It is our aim to cleanse the
  Eastern countries of Jews as completely as possible.

                                                  [Page 332]
   
   The executions are everywhere to be carried out in such
   a manner that they are hardly noticeable to the public.
   Among the population, and even among the remaining Jews,
   the conviction that the Jews have merely been resettled
   is widespread. Esthonia has already been cleared of
   Jews. In Latvia, the number Of 29,500 Jews, who remained
   in Riga, has been reduced to 2,500. In Duenaburg there
   are still 962 Jews living, who are urgently needed for
   labour purposes."

I am now omitting several paragraphs and I continue:

   "In Lithuania there are now in Kauen still 15,000, in
   Schaulen 4,500 and in Wilna another 15,000 Jews who are
   also needed for labour purposes. In White Ruthenia the
   Jews are in the process of being cleaned out. The number
   of Jews in the part of the country which has been turned
   over to the civilian administration amounts to 139,000.
   In the meantime, 33,210 Jews have been shot by the
   Special Operation Group of the Security Police and the
   S.D."

I now omit the rest of this extract and continue by reading
another document. This is dated "Berlin, 23rd April, 1942,"
and shows an illegible initial in ink. It bears the heading
"The Chief of the Security Police and the S.D., IVA-1," and
several file numbers. It bears the designation: "Top
Secret." This document, which is signed by Heydrich and
which shows as the date of receipt 28th April, 1942, lists
in the distribution in the fourteenth place: "To the Higher
S.S. and Police Leader, S.S. Obergruppenfuehrer, S.S.
Gruppenfuehrer, Dr. Kaltenbrunner, Vienna."

I now read from Page II of the report and I read an extract
headed "C. Jews."

  "Different methods were used in solving the Jewish
  problem in the various front sectors. Since the greater
  part of the Eastern Territory is free of Jews, and since
  the few remaining Jews, who are required for most urgent
  purposes, have been put into ghettos, it was the task of
  the Security Police and the S.D. to round up those Jews
  who were hiding mainly in the country. Jews, who had left
  the ghetto without permission or who were not wearing the
  Jewish Star, were arrested repeatedly. For example, among
  others, three Jews, who had been sent from the Reich to
  the ghetto in Riga and who had escaped, were captured and
  publicly hanged in the ghetto. During large-scale anti-
  Jewish operations 3412 Jews in Minsk, 302 in Wilejka, and
  2,007 in Baranowitschi were shot."

I now pass three paragraphs and continue:

  "In addition to taking action against individual Jews who
  were known for their political or criminal activity, it
  was the task of the Security Police and the S.D. to clean
  up generally the larger towns in the remaining
  territories of the Eastern Front. Thus in Rakow alone
  15,000, and in Artenowsk 1,224 Jews were shot, so that
  now there are no more Jews there.
  
  In the Crimea 1,000 Jews and Gypsies were executed."

That is all.

BY COLONEL AMEN:

Q. Defendant, do you still have the temerity to tell this
Tribunal that you knew nothing about the operations of these
Einsatz groups until after you took over as Chief of the
R.S.H.A.?

A. At the top left-hand corner of the document can clearly
be read:

  "The Higher S.S. and Police Leader - "


THE PRESIDENT: Answer the question and then you can look at
the document afterwards. Do you still say that you knew
nothing about these Einsatzgruppen?

THE WITNESS: I have no knowledge of the contents of this
document. I want to point out that the Office of the
Inspector of the Public Police dispatched this letter

                                                  [Page 333]

on 22nd October, 1941. Technical reports on the fighting on
the Eastern Front and on the operations of the Security
Police and S.D., which were drafted at that time, are based
on orders issued by Himmler or Heydrich and not on my
orders. In no way can this document show how I regarded the
entire question. If the distribution lists indicate that
these technical reports were sent to all the Higher S.S. and
Police Leaders and all the offices, I do not regard that as
proof that these offices - that is to say, all the men who
were working in these offices - must necessarily have known
of them. You cannot assume that cognisance was actually
taken of reports concerning territories over which the
officials in question had no jurisdiction nor influence
whatsoever. There is no doubt at all today that these crimes
were committed in the East. But it is to be proved whether
they are in any way due to my influence either
intellectually, legislatively or actively and whether I
approved of them and whether I could have stopped them; all
this I must absolutely deny.

BY COLONEL AMEN:

Q. Defendant, that was just one of a regular series of
monthly reports, a copy of which went to you every single
month; isn't that a fact? Yes or no?

A. I do not know how often such reports came. Of course, it
cannot be denied that such technical reports from all battle
zones concerning either the activities of the Security
Police, or of the Public Order Police, or the operations of
the Wehrmacht, were issued and distributed all over the
Reich.

Q. All right, that is enough for me.

Did you know about a letter written by your attorney,
seeking evidence on your behalf at this trial?

A. I have not yet discussed such a letter with my defence
counsel. Please ask him if he has informed me of this
letter.

Q. Well, are you not familiar with the fact that he wrote a
letter to the Mayor's office in Oranienburg near Berlin and
received a reply to that letter to be used on your behalf?

A. No. Please ask him; he has not told me anything about it.

Q. Now, then I will refer you to document number -

THE PRESIDENT: Colonel Amen, are you entitled to go into
professional matters between the defendant and his counsel?

COLONEL AMEN: I believe so in this instance, your Lordship,
because the letter was sent to us directly by the recipient
of the letter with the expectation that it would be used by
us. This is no confidential communication. It was a letter -

THE PRESIDENT: Will you let the Tribunal see the letter?

COLONEL AMEN: Yes, sir.

DR. KAUFFMANN: Mr. President, this is the first time that I
have heard of this matter. If the document is addressed to
me may I perhaps have a look at it before it becomes an item
in this trial?

COLONEL AMEN: Yes.

THE PRESIDENT: Yes, certainly, let him look at it first.

COLONEL AMEN: If your Lordship please -

DR. KAUFFMANN: May I explain it, Mr. President?

THE PRESIDENT: Well, we had better hear from Colonel Amen
first because he is wanting to introduce the document.

DR. KAUFFMANN: May I say something first?

THE PRESIDENT: Yes, Dr. Kauffmann, what do you want to say
now?

DR. KAUFFMANN: Perhaps the Tribunal has already noticed that
I -

THE PRESIDENT: We have not seen the document.

DR. KAUFFMANN: I have seen the document.

THE PRESIDENT: I said we have not seen it yet. We have
allowed you to see it first in order that you can make any
objection to it that you want to make before we see it and
then we will look at it.

DR. KAUFFMANN: Yes, I see.

Mr. President, I am of the opinion that this is an unfair
infringement on the

                                                  [Page 334]

rights and duties of the German defence. The whole world may
read this document. It is an inquiry which is addressed to
the mayor's office at Oranienburg. Oranienburg was a large
concentration camp. Since, according to an agreement with my
colleagues, I had the task of clarifying these questions
"for the benefit of the German people," I sent this letter,
containing questions which everybody may read, to the
mayor's office and requested that these questions be
answered. It was my intention to submit these answers, if
the occasion arose, to the Tribunal. The same questions have
been sent out to other towns and I have already submitted
these documents for translation and shall later submit them
to the Tribunal. But it is an impossible state of affairs
that a letter of a defence counsel and the reply given to
that defence counsel should be disclosed here by the
prosecution.

THE PRESIDENT: Wait a minute, Dr. Kauffmann. But the
document that Colonel Amen was offering in evidence was not
your letter to the Mayor of Oranienburg nor his answer to
you.

COLONEL AMEN: Yes, it was.

THE PRESIDENT: I beg your pardon, I thought you said it was
a letter that has been sent to the prosecution.

COLONEL AMEN: I said that a copy was sent to the
prosecution, as I understand it, not only by the person who
received it - there was no covering letter - but also turned
over to the British Prosecution in a letter dated 2nd April,
1946, from Major Wurmser.

THE PRESIDENT: I understand now. I do not think you said
before it was a copy. What I understood was it might have
been sent to you by mistake. If it were a copy of a letter
which was sent to Dr. Kauffmann, then the position is clear
as to what it was.

COLONEL AMEN: That is my understanding of it, sir, and, of
course, it is a copy of his letter, but I know of no
privilege whatsoever of a confidential -

THE PRESIDENT: What do you mean by "a copy of his letter," a
copy of the letter sent to Dr. Kauffmann?

COLONEL AMEN: Sent by Dr. Kauffmann to the Mayor of
Oranienburg and a copy of the reply made by the mayor to Dr.
Kauffmann, and I think you will see, if your Lordship reads
the reply, how it is that it came directly to our attention.

DR. KAUFFMANN: May I add one more thing, only two or three
sentences, please? I consider the presentation of these two
documents a particularly severe infringement of the rights
of the defence. The defence has had no opportunity to look
at the documents of the prosecution, and it would never have
occurred to us to submit to the Tribunal documents of the
prosecution which are to our advantage. This is exclusively
a matter between me, the sender of the letter and the office
answering it; how is it possible for the prosecution to be
allowed to interfere in such entirely personal matters? I do
not think that is fair.

COLONEL AMEN: Now, if your Lordship pleases, I think I can
clear the whole thing up. This is a letter dated 2nd April,
1946, from Major Wurmser to the British Prosecution, and it
reads as follows:

  "Attached please find the original correspondence
  regarding Oranienburg. In accordance with your request I
  have ascertained that this correspondence was received in
  the following way: It came addressed to the prosecution
  and was delivered to the General Secretary. The original
  was apparently sent directly to Dr. Kauffmann and the
  sender, the Mayor of Oranienburg, Herr Klaussmann,
  dispatched a carbon copy to the prosecution at the same
  time, not only of his answer but also of the letter which
  was sent to him by Dr. Kauffmann."

THE PRESIDENT: Yes, I think we understand the circumstances
now.

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