The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

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Last-Modified: 1997/12/08

Q. I will now show you the issue of Der Stuermer of the 19th
of March 1942, and call your special attention to the
editorial appearing on the first page, which runs over to
the second page over your signature, and ask you to pay
particular attention to that part which is marked with a red
pencil, and I will ask you to explain what you meant by
those passages. This article has to do with the prophecy of
the Fuehrer. It goes on to say that the "Jewish penetration
of Europe, especially of Germany, began under the protection
of the Roman Empire, and that the solution of the Jewish
problem became a question of life for Europe."

A. Yes, that is my conviction.

Q. "There are two ways which might have led to the
redemption of Europe from the Jews, expulsion or

A. Yes. I have written that purposely, but it is not stated
here that killing should be the way.

Q. What do you mean by "extermination"?

A. This is the most radical and an impossible solution. Had
I wanted the solution of extermination, I wouldn't have
mentioned both of these ways.

Q. But you go on to say, "Just as the expulsion of Jews had
led to temporary and partial results by virtue of the
disunity in action of the European peoples, so also the
attempt at extermination

                                                 [Page 1432]
could not attain the desired purpose, as extermination was
only carried out on a petty scale and within a few nations."

A. Yes, this is a historical fact. This is the reason why I
say that extermination is not the way to the solution of the
Jewish problem.

Q. But later on in the article, you say, "Fate has decreed
that the 20th century would see the total solution of the
Jewish question. In a proclamation of 24 February 1942, to
the peoples of Europe, the Fuehrer of the German Reich has
indicated how this solution will be achieved."

A. At that time I did not know that the Fuehrer had Jews
killed in camps. The Fuehrer has repeatedly said --
unfortunately, I was not able to quote it word for word - he
said that finally the Jews will approach an extermination in
England and America, internationally in every country, and I
think that then he referred to the political power of the

Q. Don't you point out in this article that expulsion in
itself is ineffective?

A. Expulsion alone would not be sufficient. There has to be
some order. They must have to have some place to go to.

Q. How do you explain the part in this article that reads,
"My prophecy will find its fulfillment that the Aryan race
is not annihilated by this war. On the contrary, the Jew
will be exterminated. Whatever else this struggle leads to
or however long it may endure, this will be the final
result, and then for the first time after the elimination of
these parasites, a true peace will arise in a suffering
world, and thereby mutual understanding between peoples will
remain for a long time."

A. The elimination of the parasites means taking them out of
the people.

Q. I know it means that, but what do you mean by the
statement that "the Aryan race is not annihilated by this
war. On the contrary, the Jew will be exterminated"?

A. I meant that the power of the Jews was being broken.

Q. Show me any place in that article where it says that.

A. The word is not said right here, but I have written it in
other articles. If extermination was to be understood by
that, I would have written the word "extermination."

Q. When you wrote that "the Aryan race is not annihilated by
this war," what did you mean by that?

A. What I meant was that if it is managed to take the Jews
out of the different countries and place them into a state
of their own, then the Aryan peoples can continue to live.
If, however,

                                                 [Page 1433]
the condition carries on as it was up to then, that the Jews
were allowed to mix freely sexually with other nations, then
the whole world will go down to destruction.

Q. Why didn't you say that?

A. There were a number of editions of "Der Stuermer" where I
wrote that the peoples are going towards their destruction
by sexual intercourse.

Q. Do you want the record to be changed that you have never
used the word "extermination"?

A. Extermination has not the meaning, as I said before, of
killing, but merely excluding. As I said before, during
wartime, in the German wartime language, it was often used
that such and such a company was exterminated with so many
people dead and so many people wounded.

Q. I will now quote to you an article that appeared in Der
Stuermer on the 7th day of May 1942, [Document referred to
did not form part of the prosecution case as finally
prepared and hence is not published in this series.]
appearing over the signature of Ernst Hiemer, and which you
say was printed with your approval. This article reads as
follows, as it appears in the last three or four paragraphs:
"today Europe is about to carry out the final solution of
the Jewish question. Precisely on that account, it is well
to learn from past errors and to recall again in this matter
what history teaches; and what does history teach? It
teaches, "the Jewish question is not only a German affair.
It is also not only a European problem. The Jewish question
is a world question. Not only is Germany not safe in face of
the Jews as long as one Jew lives in Europe, but also the
Jewish question is hardly solved in Europe so long as Jews
live in the rest of the world. Jewry is organized
criminality. The Jewish menace will thus only be eliminated
if Jewry in the whole world has ceased to exist." Give me
your explanation of that.

A. I explain this, as I explained it before, that this
question has to be internationally solved; that is, the Jews
have to be taken out of all countries and an international
solution created. It is proof that we always wanted the
international solution of the Jewish problem by always being
against any individual proceedings in Germany.

Q. How do you explain the following: "but also the Jewish
question is hardly solved in Europe as long as Jews live in
the rest of the world"?

A. Did I write this article?

Q. Hiemer wrote it.

A. This has been written rather illogically: This can happen
very often; if you just take one sentence out of an article,

                                                 [Page 1434]
might happen. You have to read the article as a whole. May I
hear it again? I want to be sure.

Q. "Not only is Germany not safe in face of the Jews as long
as one Jew lives in Europe, but also the Jewish question is
hardly solved in Europe so long as Jews live in the rest of
the world."

A. This has not been expressed very cleverly, but what he
wanted to say --

Q. Never mind what he wanted to say. We are only interested
in what was said.

Now, when you consider that and also consider the following:
"Jewry is organized criminality," what do you say to that?

A. We can prove that. With organized criminality we mean
that the Jews were organized among all peoples in order to
get all the wealth into their hands. The Old Testament is
still looked upon as the whole history of Jews. In the Old
Testament it is written, "The gates of the world are open
for you and you should devour the people." The Jews are
living in all the countries as Jews. For instance, the Jews
in England are living there as English citizens, but they
remain Jews. It says at the association between God and
Abraham, it is said that God has made an association with
Abraham, and the sign of this association is the
circumcision, and this is how every Jew is part of this big
organization by this mark of circumcision.

Q. If you believe that it is organized criminality, how
could you honestly advocate the erection of a national

A. Why not?

Q. How could such a state exist without having some
relations with other nations?

A. I have said that it should have relations with other
nations, with ambassadors.

Q. Had you considered whether or not other nations would
have any relations with an organized criminal nation?

A. If you take apart every one of my sentences that I have
written during my past 25 years, of course.

Q. Of course what?

A. Of course, if you take out every single word, take it out
of the substance, of course you can weigh it one way or the
other, but what I meant by "world criminality of Jews" I
made reference to the political side of it.

Q. I am not trying to trap you with any of my questions. I
am merely trying to get the basic philosophy that you have
been teaching. Now you say that you at all times advocated a
peaceful solution of this question?

A. Yes.

                                                 [Page 1435]
Q. And that your peaceful solution was to move the Jews out
of Germany and out of Europe, and to create a national

A. The Zionist leader, Theodore Herzl, requested that.

Q. Now you have advocated that you are able to prove that
Jewry is organized criminality?

A. Yes, that I can prove.

Q. I want to put those two things together and want you to
tell me what your solution is for the existence of such a
national state.

A. Let us remain with the word "criminals." In France,
criminals are being sent to Devil's Island. If I know that
people are distributed in every country with the aim of the
acquisition of the wealth that is in every country, and have
as their aim to spoil every country racially, I have the
right to speak about criminality.

Q. Do you take the position that every individual Jew
belongs to that class?

A. No. Politically, yes. As a member of the whole community
that has as their aim to enslave other nations.

Q. Did you advocate a selection?

A. International solution of the Jewish problem by the
elimination of the Jews into other countries.

Q. And by that you mean all Jews?

A. With that I mean all Jews in all the countries.

Q. Without any selection as to whether they are criminals or

A. Yes.

Q. then you had in mind the creation of a national state
that would be something similar to Devil's Island?

A. I have said already before that Theodore Herzl and most
of the Jews wanted a creation of the Jewish state. When I
said "Devil's Island," I merely meant it in an illustrative
fashion. I wanted to say that in France, criminals are not
being killed by merely being sent to Devil's Island.

Q. What do you mean by the word "Jewry"?

A. Jewry is the conception for the whole of the Jews. You
say, for instance, the world Jewry. The political aims of
the Jews in the world is world Jewry.

Q. Well, would you consider that Jewry would be eliminated
if this national state was created?

A. Yes. This program has started already. Cities have been
built in Palestine. Agricultural schools have been set up in
Switzerland, and many people have emigrated to Palestine and
worked on the land.

                                                 [Page 1436]
Q. In this article you state, "The Jewish menace will thus
only be eliminated if Jewry in the whole world has ceased to

A. That means as soon as they have stopped to exercise any
influence among the peoples.

Q. But you call it a Jewish menace.

A. I meant it as a menace when people in different countries
cannot assimilate themselves to the countries, but remain a
united block, economically and politically.

Q. In the last few questions, I made a mistake by referring
to you as the author of this article, but the article we
have been discussing is the one by Ernst Hiemer.

A. I am ready to answer the question just the same.

Q. Well, I just didn't want to mislead you with those
questions. However, do you accept this article as if it was
your own?

A. Being as a whole, yes.

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