Archive/File: imt/tgmwc/tgmwc-15/tgmwc-15-144.07
Last-Modified: 2000/03/28

Q. I will give you an example: complaints about labour
conditions.

A. In that case, one had to go first to the local labour
office which was competent in order to have detailed
inquiries made into the case, and to see about the general
conditions, or the actual conditions.

                                                  [Page 251]

Q. And if it was a matter of housing and nutrition, to whom
did one go?

A. First to the offices of the German Labour Front, which,
by a decree of the General Plenipotentiary for the
Employment of Labour - I believe it was Decree No. 4 - was
given the general task of looking after the foreign workers.

Q. And did the Labour Front report to you further?

A. Within the scope of their capacity they tried to put
matters right.

Q. Then the Labour Front itself, in fact, was the highest
authority for questions of complaints about the welfare of
workers?

A. If you put it like that, yes.

Q. Who supervised the treatment of prisoners of war? Did the
complaints come to Sauckel?

A. No.

Q. Who had charge of that?

A. The High Command of the Armed Forces.

Q. The Reich Central Inspection was also a control office.
What did Sauckel have to do with the Reich Central
Inspection?

A. That must be an incorrect expression. I do not know what
you mean by the Reich Central Inspection.

Q. I mean the inspectorate, the office of industrial
inspection, the Reich Central Industrial Inspection.

A. In Germany the offices for industrial inspection were
competent on principle for the protection of workers in
factories. As far as the protection of workmen in factories
was concerned, they had to see that the decrees which had
been issued and were in force, were carried out and obeyed.
Therefore, in case of complaints, they were competent in
that field.

Q. Was Sauckel accused by other offices of looking after the
workmen too well? And was there not, in some cases, even
envy of the situation of certain foreign workers?

A. Yes. Such accusations came from three places. First, from
the two offices that I have mentioned before, which offered
general objections and resistance to the exaggerated demands
of the General Plenipotentiary for the Employment of Labour.
Then Bormann's office and Himmler's objected too. It went so
far that the General Plenipotentiary for the Employment of
Labour was even suspected of being pro-Bolshevik.

DR. SERVATIUS: Then I have no further questions to put to
the witness.

THE PRESIDENT: Do any other defence counsel wish to ask any
questions?

(No response.)

THE PRESIDENT: Does the prosecution wish to?

(No response.)

THE PRESIDENT: The witness can retire.

DR. SERVATIUS: Mr. President, I do not know whether the
witness Jager has arrived yet.

THE PRESIDENT: I am told not.

DR. SERVATIUS: I assume that he will be here by Monday, and
I would suggest that I be permitted to submit some documents
now, or maybe an interrogation of the witness Gotz which is
in the Document Book. Perhaps I may refer to several
passages. It is a very long affidavit, and it throws some
light on the matter in this connection. It will make it more
easy to understand.

THE PRESIDENT: You probably have some remarks to make about
your documents, have you not, which will take you until one
o'clock?

DR. SERVATIUS: Yes.

Mr. President, the document books contain primarily the
decrees which Sauckel issued, and they cover what has been
said here by the witnesses and by

                                                  [Page 252]

the defendant himself as a witness. As far as possible, the
book is divided up into sections dealing with various
subjects, but since the decrees which were issued frequently
applied to several subjects at the same time, the separate
divisions overlap
in this book.

I refer principally to Volume I, to all the decrees included
there, which I do not want to read individually. I should
only like to emphasize the decrees about police matters.
That is Document 6, which is on Page 16, Document 10, on
Page 22, and Document 14, on Page 25. These documents -

THE PRESIDENT: You understand that you must offer in
evidence each
document or number of documents that you want to put in
evidence? It is not sufficient to put it in your document
book. So please state the document which you wish to put in
evidence.

DR. SERVATIUS: These documents are included in a collection
of laws which has already been submitted.

THE PRESIDENT: The whole thing you mean? The whole thing has
been submitted?

DR. SERVATIUS: It has as far as I know. That is Document
3044-PS, "Enactments and Decrees".

THE PRESIDENT: Well, probably only a small part of 3044-PS
has been read and, therefore, unless it is translated into
the four languages, it does not form part of the record. Dr.
Servatius, if you will go into the matter and offer what you
want to offer in evidence on Monday morning, that will be
quite satisfactory.

DR. SERVATIUS: Very well. But I may refer to them now and
then I will submit the documents on Monday?

THE PRESIDENT: Yes.

DR. SERVATIUS: These three decrees and enactments of the
Reichsfuehrer SS I have submitted in order to show how there
were efforts made at improvement in this difficult field.
Decree No. 6 was issued shortly before Sauckel came into
office and one has to consider that in order to show that it
was a fait accompli.

The next decree, Document No. 10, already shows an
improvement. It deals with the barbed wire and the. workers'
time off, and this becomes even more elastic in the next
document. Document No. 15, that is, Decree No. 4, which has
already been submitted, is probably the first and most
important decree, which describes the fundamental authority
and directives, as well as the recruiting methods,
transportation and treatment in Germany.

Decree No. 16 deals with the employment of Eastern workers
and gives the first and basic regulations, because until
then a definite legal regulation which was uniform did not
exist.

Then I come to Document No. 19, which is on Page 54 in the
English text. This is a decree and a letter from Sauckel to
the Gau Labour Offices and the Gauleiter of 14th October,
1942, concerning the good treatment of foreign workers. This
letter is an intervention on the part of Sauckel to remove
poor conditions and to correct certain misconceptions of
which he had been informed. I quote here in the German text
on Page 19 the following -

THE PRESIDENT: Well, that document has been quoted already I
think, has it not?

DR. SERVATIUS: A part of the document has already been
mentioned.

THE PRESIDENT: Which part has not been quoted?

DR. SERVATIUS: It is Page 59 in my book; in the English
text, Page 54.

THE PRESIDENT: Page 54 is only the heading.

                                                  [Page 253]

DR. SERVATIUS: Heading: "Decree and letter of Sauckel dated
14th October, 1942," and on the next page the text begins.
The first page contains only the title of the decree.

THE PRESIDENT: But Page 55 in the English text, the
beginning of the document, has already been read.

DR. SERVATIUS: The beginning has already been read.

THE PRESIDENT: Then what did you want to read?

DR. SERVATIUS: I should like to read the whole thing in
order to show how far Sauckel -

THE PRESIDENT: Well, you see, beginning with the words "If
in a Gau district the statement was recently still made",
that has been read already, down to the bottom of that
paragraph.

DR. SERVATIUS: I have here only a short note. If it has
already been read, then I do not have to read it again. I
will dispense with the reading.

Document No. 20 on Page 56 in the English Document Book
deals with compulsory labour service for foreign female
domestic helpers and shows the regulations in force at that
time -

THE PRESIDENT: Which document?

DR. SERVATIUS: Document No. 20.

THE PRESIDENT: Continue.

DR. SERVATIUS: - whereby it is pointed out particularly that
a forced transfer of foreign women for domestic help would
not be carried out; and the statement made by Sauckel
emphasises that only voluntary workers should be taken for
domestic employment.

Decree No. 21 introduces the Labour Book. That is in the
English text on Page 57. The purpose of the Labour Book was,
as Sauckel has stated here, to facilitate a regulation of
manpower so that one had a survey of it and did not lose
control, supervision and above all, in connection with this,
there was to be an allocation of land to the Eastern workers
as the defendant Sauckel has explained; a central file was
to be established and with the help of this, the regular
transportation of the workers back home again was to be
arranged at a later date. That was the work of the Labour
Book.

Then we come to Document No. 22 of 23rd July, 1943, which
deals with the limitation of the length of employment of
Eastern workers. It is said in this connection that the
duration of employment should be for two years, with certain
modifications to the effect that there should be facilities
for leave, and premiums should be given for the work done.
There was to be leave in Germany and under certain
conditions, a home leave. For vacations in Germany, as can
be seen here, special leave camps were set up for Eastern
workers. The reason was that, on account of transport
conditions and other circumstances, these workers could not
go home, especially if they came from territories which, in
the meantime, were no longer occupied by Germans.

Then there follows Decree No. 13. That is document No. 23,
Page 62 in the English Document Book. This decree deals with
the safeguarding of order in industrial plants. It is the
decree on the basis of which measures could be taken for the
maintenance of discipline. I have submitted it in order to
show that it was valid both for German and for foreign
workers, and is not a decree which discriminates against
Eastern workers.

Now I will refer to Document No. 26. That is Page 66 in the
English Document Book. This is a decree of 25th July, 1944,
according to which the position of domestic workers from the
East should, on principle, be put on the same footing

                                                  [Page 254]

as that of the German domestic helpers. Working hours are
regulated and also time off. It reads:

  "Every week the female worker from the East is to have a
  certain amount of free time."

The question of vacations is regulated in paragraph 7, to
the effect that they will be granted a leave after twelve
months' work in the territories of the Reich.

THE PRESIDENT: Are those figures right in Document 26, Page
67, in the English Document Book? Working hours to fall
between 6.00 o'clock in the morning and 9.00 o'clock at
night?

DR. SERVATIUS: It says there: "The regular working hours,
including rest periods and preparation for work, are to fall
between 0600 and 2100 hours, unless  special conditions call
for other arrangements." That does not mean that the work is
to be done from 6.00 o'clock in the morning until 9.00
o'clock at night. It means that between these two time
limits these people have to work. They cannot work before
6.00 in the morning. "This girl cannot work after 9.00 at
night. It cannot - "

THE PRESIDENT: I am only asking if the figures are correct?

DR. SERVATIUS: The figures are correct.

Document 27 deals with the position of foreign workers in
industrial plants. It is a decree of the German Labour Front
and there are one or two basic statements made in it. Here
for example:

  "The pleasure they take in their work and the willingness
  of German workers must in no circumstances be impaired by
  a material improvement in the position of foreign
  workers. As regards the treatment of foreign workers, it
  must be taken into consideration that they came to
  Germany voluntarily, and are giving us their services for
  the carrying out of tasks of military importance. In
  order to maintain this pleasure in their work, a primary
  condition is respect of their contract conditions, an
  absolutely fair treatment and comprehensive care and
  attention."

Document 28 is the agreement between Ley and Sauckel about
the arrangement of supervision in the Central Inspection. It
has already been submitted by the prosecution.

Document 30 deals with the tasks in detail, and states:

  "In the fields of the employment of labour and the Reich
  Trustee offices and administration, the Central Reich
  Inspection has the following tasks:
  
  The supervision of the execution of my regulations and
  decrees. On the basis of the practical knowledge gained,
  the Central Reich Inspection is to make suggestions,
  propose improvements and foster mutual exchange of
  experiences."

The last document in this book deals with the establishment
of French offices. It is in the English Document Book on
Page 79, and is entitled "French Agencies for the Care of
the French Workers Employed in the Reich."

I believe I have already read the document here. With that,
I have finished Document Book One.

THE PRESIDENT: Very well, we will adjourn.

(The Tribunal adjourned until 3rd June, 1946, at 1000 hours.)

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