The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

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Q. In connection with this, do you admit that participation
of German youth in similar atrocities was the effect of the
special education and preparation of the Hitler Youth?

A. No, I do not admit that.

Q. I have two more questions, and that will he all. Up to
what time did you hold the post of Reichsstatthalter of
Vienna and Reichsleiter of Youth Education?

A. I was head of Youth Education from 1931 and Reich
Governor of the city of Vienna since 1940.

Q. I am interested in knowing to what date, to what moment?

A. I held both of these offices until the collapse.

Q. You were explaining here in detail about your break with
Hitler in 1943. You stated that from that time on you were
politically dead. However, you continued to hold your posts
to the very end. Therefore your break with Hitler was only
theoretical, and in effect entailed no consequences for you.
Is that correct?

                                                   [Page 28]

A. That is wrong. I described the consequences which it had
for me in my statement either on Thursday or Friday, and I
also mentioned at that time that up to the very last moment
I kept my oath which I had given to Hitler as Youth Leader,
as an official, and as an officer.

GENERAL ALEXANDROV: I have no more questions, Mr. President.


DR. SAUTER: Mr. President, in order to expedite the
proceedings, I should like to put two brief questions to
Defendant von Schirach.


The first question, witness.

In the course of the cross-examination you were asked
whether you gave the order to hold Vienna until the very
last moment and to defend the city to the last man. As far
as I remember, you answered that question in the negative.
Now, I am interested in knowing in this connection what
orders you gave to your subordinates during the last days in
Vienna. I mean to the deputy Gauleiter Scharizer and

A. The order for the defence of Vienna originated from
Hitler. The defence of Vienna was a matter for the military
authorities, that is the Commandant of the city of Vienna,
the military commander who was in charge of the 6th SS
Panzer Division ...

Q. What was his name?

A. Sepp Dietrich, and the officer commanding the Army Group
South, General Randulic.

Q. Did they give the orders?

A. In carrying out the order which Hitler had given them
regarding the defence of Vienna, they defended Vienna.

Q. What orders did you, witness, give your subordinates in
this connection?

A. For the defence of Vienna I gave only such orders as
related to the Volkssturm, or those dealing with the food
supply of the city and similar matters with which I was
charged. I personally had nothing to do with the actual
defence of the city. For even the work of destruction which
was necessary in the course of the military defence of the
city, is to be traced back to orders which originated from
the Fuehrer's headquarters and had been transmitted to the
officer commanding the Army group, and to the City

Q. My second question, witness:

In your cross-examination you were questioned about Document
3763-PS. This is a document which deals with the songs of
Youth, into which the prosecution seems to read a different
attitude from the one you set forth. Do you wish to
supplement your testimony on this point?

A. Yes, I must supplement it briefly.

Q. Please do.

A. The prosecution accuses me concerning a certain song, a
song which begins "We are the black swarms of Geyer, hey,
ho?" the chorus of which goes: "Spear them, spike them, put
the red cock on the cloister roof," and one verse runs "We
will cry to Him on high, that we want to kill the priest."

This is a Christian song.

Q. How is that?

A. This can be seen from the fourth and fifth verses. It is
the song of the Protestant peasants under the leadership of
Florian Geyer.

The fourth verse goes: "No castle, abbey and monastery are
what matters - Nothing but the Holy Scriptures is of value
to us." The next verse goes: "We want the same law from
prince down to peasant."

Protestantism too was once a revolution. The peasants who
revolted sang this song, and it may serve as an example,
this song of the sixteenth century, like some

                                                   [Page 29]

of the songs of the French revolution. This song may be used
as an example to show how, in the beginning, revolutions are
radical rather than tolerant.

DR. SAUTER: Mr. President, with this point I should like to
conclude my direct examination of the defendant von
Schirach. Thank you very much. I have no further questions.


Q. Who were your principal assistants in your office at

A. First of all, the chief of my central office, Hopken;
secondly, the District President (Regierungsprasident) Dr.
Dellbruegge; thirdly, the Mayor, Blaschke; and fourthly, the
Deputy Gauleiter Scharitzer. They were my chief

Q. That makes four, does it?

A. Yes.

Q. And did they occupy the whole of their time working for
you in your office?

A. Not all of them. The Deputy Gauleiter had already been in
office under my predecessor, Burckel. The Mayor, Blaschke,
as far as I recall, first became
Mayor in 1943. His predecessor as Mayor was a Herr Jung. The
President, Dr. Dellbruegge, assumed his office in 1940,
after my arrival in Vienna. He was sent to me from the

Q. Well then, from the time that you took over the office in
Vienna these four men were working for you, is that right?

A. Yes. I should like to mention also that the head of the
central office, Hopken, was first of all active under me as
adjutant and assumed his position as Chief only when the
former chief of this office, Obergebitsfuehrer Miller, lost
his life in an air raid.

Q. Which of the four was it who initialled those weekly
reports which were received in your office?

A. That was the District President, Dr. Dellbruegge.

Q. Dellbruegge?

A. Yes.

Q. And at the time that he received them he was working in
your office as one of your principal assistants?

A. He was my deputy in the State Administration.

Q. That was your office?

A. That was one of my offices.

Q. Yes, one department in your office?

A. Yes. May I add, by way of explanation, that there were
various branches: The State Administration, the Municipal
Administration, the Party Management and the Reich Defence
Commissariat. The Reich Defence Commissariat and the State
Administration were connected so far as personnel were
concerned, as far as their representation was concerned.
Everything was co-ordinated in the central office.

Q. Well, in which department was this principal assistant
who initialled these documents? Which department was he head

A. He held a key position in the office of the Reich
Governor (Reichsstatthalter), as Chief of the State

Q. Civil administration?

A. Yes, Civil State Administration.

Q. Was he the Deputy Reich Defence Commissioner?

A. Yes.

Q. And you were the Reich Defence Commissioner for the
Military District No. 17, were you not?

A. Yes.

Q. And he was your deputy in that military district?

A. Yes.

Q. He received and initialled those reports in that office,
did he not?

A. Yes.

                                                   [Page 30]

THE PRESIDENT: The Defendant can return to the dock.

DR. SAUTER: Mr. President, with your permission I should
like to call to the witness box the witness Lauterbacher.

HARTMANN LAUTERBACHER, a witness, took the stand and
testified as follows


Q. Will you state your full name?

A. Hartmann Lauterbacher.

Q. Is that your full name?

A. Lauterbacher.

Q. Will you repeat this oath after me:

I swear by God, the Almighty and Omniscient, that I will
speak the pure truth
and will withhold and add nothing.

(The witness repeated the oath.)

THE PRESIDENT: Will you sit down.



Q. Herr Lauterbacher.

A. Yes?

Q. I have already discussed this matter with you in the
prison; is that right?

A. Yes.

Q. Please pause after each question before you answer so
that the interpreters may keep up.

A. Yes.

Q. When were you born?

A. On the 24th of May, 1909.

Q. 1909?

A. Yes, 1909.

Q. Are you married?

A. Yes.

Q. You have three children?

A. Yes.

Q. What is your profession?

A. Druggist.

Q. Retail druggist.

A. Yes.

Q. You are in an American prison?

A. In an English prison.

Q. Since when?

A. Since the 29th of May, 1945.

Q. Have you been interrogated by the prosecution on this

A. No.

Q. When did you become an official, that is to say, a paid
employee of the Hitler Youth?

A. I became a paid employee of the Hitler Youth on being
appointed District Leader (Gebietsfuehrer) of the
Westphalia-Lower Rhine area.

Q. And when was that?

A. In April 1932.

Q. April, 1932. That was at the age of 23?

A. Yes, at the age of 23.

Q. Before then had you been a member of the H.J.?

A. Yes. I was

                                                   [Page 31]

Q. Slowly, please, and always wait until the question has
been completed before you answer.

A. Yes.

Q. I was asking you if you were already a member of the
Hitler Youth when you took up your paid appointment in the
year 1932.

A. Yes. When I was 13 years old, in the year 1922, 1 joined
what was then known as the National Socialist Youth
Organization. Then, when I was eighteen years old, in the
year 1927, I accepted the duties of an Unterfuehrer in my
home province of Tyrol -

Q. And officially were you - ?

A.  - Then I worked in an honorary capacity in Brunswick
from 1929 until 1932; and later on I had a paid appointment.

Q. That is to say from 1932?

A. Yes.

Q. What was your status in the year 1932? What position did
you obtain then?

A. In the year 1932 I was entrusted with the leadership of
the area then known as Westphalia-Lower Rhine.

Q. When were you assigned to the defendant van Schirach?

A. On 22nd of May, 1934.

Q. What was your position under him?

A. Stabsfuehrer.

Q. How long did you remain a Stabsfuehrer?

A. Until August, 1940.

Q. I suppose until the time he resigned his office as Reich
Youth Leader?

A. Yes.

Q. When you took up your paid appointment with the HJ, had
you already served with the Army?

A. No.

Q. Then you had not been an officer?

A. No.

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