Archive/File: imt/tgmwc/tgmwc-12/tgmwc-12-116.08
Last-Modified: 2000/01/27

Q. No, I appreciate that and that is why we have quite a
number of them.

You see, we have an extract for practically every week or
month over the course of three years.

I would just like you to turn to Page 30 "A" of the "A"
bundle. I just want you to see what you were writing after
having heard, or after having read, or anyway ... after
those copies of the "Israelitisches Wochenblatt" had been
published. This is a leading article by yourself:-

"If the danger of the reproduction of that 'Curse of God' in
the Jewish blood is finally to come to an end, then there is
only one way open, the extermination of that people whose
father is the devil."

And is the word that you use for extermination there
"Ausrottung," rooting out, extirpation?

A. First of all, I would like to ask whether this issue is
known to my defence counsel, and if the translation is
correct?

Q. It does not matter. He has copies of all this and he will
be able to protect your interests. We are now just testing
the truth of the evidence that you have given.

Can you tell me, is that "extermination?" Does that mean
murder of Jews? What else can it mean?

A. It depends on the whole context. In that case I want you
to read the whole article.

Q. Well, if there is anything in the rest of the article
which can be helpful to you, your counsel will have an
opportunity to see the article and be able to put it before
the Tribunal. I can assure you that the remainder of your
articles, as a general rule, do not assist your case.

A. When that article appeared, mass killing had already
taken place a long time ago.

Q. Very well. Well now, we will not go through this at any
length.

If you will look at your "B" bundle, your bundle of extracts
from the "Israelitisches Wochenblatt" -

THE PRESIDENT: I think you should draw his attention to the
date on Page 30A.

LIEUTENANT COLONEL GRIFFITH-JONES: I am very much obliged to
your Lordship. 25 December, 1941.

BY LIEUTENANT COLONEL GRIFFITH-JONES:

Q. If you will glance at "B" bundle you will see a number of
extracts going from Page A to Page 21. Now, I would like you
to glance at Page 24 of that "B" bundle.

A. Page 24?

Q. Yes, Page 24. This is an article which appeared in the
"Israelitisches Wochenblatt" on 27 November, 1942. I just
wondered whether you read this:-

  "At the Zionist Congress in Switzerland the
  representative of the
  
                                                  [Page 337]
  
  'Jewish Agency' in Geneva gave a report on European
  Jewry. The number of victims goes into millions. If the
  present conditions continue and the German programme is
  carried out, it is to be reckoned that, instead of six or
  seven million Jews in Europe, only two million will still
  be left."

Then there are the three last lines of the extract:-

  "The Jews who were there had mostly been deported to the
  notorious unknown destination further to the East. At the
  end of this winter the number of victims will be four
  million."

Is that what you call a hint of disappearance of Jews from
the East?

A. I cannot recollect that I have ever read that, but I do
want to say that if I had read it I would not have believed
it.

Q. Well now, let us just turn to the "A" bundle again and
look at the article that you wrote on 17 December, 1942. It
is Page 34 "A." This is an article which is initialled "STR"
so I presume it was written by you:-

"The London newspaper, 'The Times' of 16 September, 1942,
published a ...

A. I have not got it yet.

Q. Page 34 "A."

A. Just a minute.

Q. Find it for him. It is headed:-

  "Eye for Eye, Tooth for Tooth."
  
  "The London newspaper, 'The Times,' of 16 September,
  1942, published a resolution which had been unanimously
  passed by the Board of Deputies of British Jews. This
  resolution expresses the grief and horror of the Anglo-
  Jewish community at the unspeakable atrocities committed
  by Germany and her allies, and vassals against the Jews
  of Europe which had only one aim, to exterminate the
  whole Jewish population of Europe in cold blood."

Now, you must have read of that in "The Times" because you
say so.

A. Yes.

Q. "Strange how the Jews of the Anglo-Jewish community
suddenly begin to prick up their ears! When the second World
War began the Fuehrer of the German nation warned the Jewish
warmongers against plunging the world into a blood bath
again. Since then the German Fuehrer has warned and
prophesied again and again that the second World War,
instigated by world Jewry, must necessarily lead to the
destruction of Jewry. In his last speech too, the Fuehrer
again referred to his prophecies.

Did you write that?

A. Yes, that is merely a quotation. It refers to a forecast
from the Fuehrer, of which nobody could possibly tell what
is really meant.

Q. Very well.

If you had not even read that or the "Israelitisches
Wochenblatt," did you ever hear of the declaration of the
United Nations which was made on 17 December, 1942?

(Witness is handed a document.)

Do you remember hearing of that? You appear to have been
reading "The Times," you appear to have been reading some
copies of the "Israelitisches Wochenblatt." Maybe that you
heard of this declaration which was published in London,
Washington and Moscow at the same time with the assent and
support of all Allied nations and dominions. I will just
read it to you and see if you remember it:-

  "The attention of the Belgian, Czechoslovak, Luxembourg,
  Netherlands, Norwegian, Polish, Soviet, United Kingdom,
  United States, and Yugoslav Governments and also the
  French National Committee, has been drawn to numerous
  reports from Europe that the German authorities, not
  content with denying to persons of Jewish race in all the
  territories over which their
  
                                                  [Page 338]
  
  barbarous rule has been extended the most elementary
  human rights, are now carrying into effect Hitler's oft
  repeated intention to exterminate the Jewish people in
  Europe.
  
  From all the occupied countries Jews are being
  transported in conditions of appalling horror and
  brutality to Eastern Europe. In Poland, which has been
  made the principal Nazi slaughterhouse, the ghettos
  established by the German invaders are being
  systematically emptied of all Jews except a few highly
  skilled workers required for war industries. None of
  those taken away are ever heard of again. The able-bodied
  are slowly worked to death in labour camps. The infirm
  are left to die of exposure and starvation, or are
  deliberately massacred in mass executions.
  
  The number of victims of these bloody cruelties is
  reckoned in many hundreds of thousands of entirely
  innocent men, women and children.
  
  The above-mentioned governments and the French National
  Committee condemn, in the strongest possible terms, this
  bestial policy of cold-blooded extermination. They
  declare that such events can only strengthen the resolve
  of all freedom-loving peoples to overthrow the barbarous
  Hitlerite tyranny. They reaffirm their solemn resolution
  to ensure that those responsible for the crimes shall not
  escape retribution, and to press on with the necessary
  practical measures to this end."

Did you never hear of this declaration?

A. I don't know, but if I should have heard of it, then I
would have to say the following:-

After the seizure of power the foreign Press published so
many atrocity stories which turned out to be rumours, that I
would have had no reason to believe anything like this; nor
is there any mention here that millions of Jews were killed.

Q. Well, you see, it isn't altogether uncorroborated. You
say you had no reason to believe it, but your
"Israelitisches Wochenblatt," which you were subscribing to,
was saying exactly the same thing.

Would you look at Page 26-b of the "B" bundle? That is the
declaration of the United Nations of 17 December. Just see
what the "Israelitisches Wochenblatt" says on the 18th. And
there I quote the second paragraph:-

  "At that time the Polish Government in London gave the
  number of Jews executed as 700,000. The Berlin radio
  hereupon declared that these reports were untrue, but
  admitted that in Poland Jews 'had had to be executed'
  because they carried out acts of sabotage."

Then the last paragraph quoted:-

  "'Up to the end of September, 1942,' writes the 'Daily
  Telegraph,' 'two million Jews have lost their lives in
  Germany and in the countries occupied by the Axis, and it
  is to be feared that the number of victims will be
  doubled by the end of this year.'"

Did you happen to read that article?

A. I can't remember having read it, but I would not have
believed it if I had.

Q. You see, there is another article in that same paper on
23 December, in the same terms; another on 30 December; and
another on 8 January. Look at what it says on 8 January:-

  "The Polish Government in London has issued a new
  declaration which states that all the information
  received agrees that a third of the three million odd
  Jews have lost their lives."

Did you read that?

A. I don't know, but I have to repeat, I would not have
believed it.

Q. Well now, let's see just what you were writing on 28
January. Look at 35-a of your own bundle; 35-a. Now just see
what your chief editor, the witness you are going to call, I
understand, Hiemer - see what he has got to say first of
all:-

                                                  [Page 339]

  "But the ghetto too, which has today been re-established
  in nearly all European countries, is only an interim
  solution; for humanity, once awakened, will not merely
  solve the ghetto question but the Jewish question in its
  totality. A time will come when the present demands of
  the Jews will be fulfilled. The ghetto will have
  disappeared ... and with it, Jewry."

What is he referring to, if he isn't referring to the mass
killing, murder, of the Jewish race?

A. That was a statement of his opinion, his conviction. That
conviction must be understood in the same way as something
which a Jewish author wrote in his book in America. Erich
Kauffmann wrote that German people capable of having
children should be sterilised, and in that manner the German
people should be exterminated. It was at the same time that
Hiemer wrote his article, and I want to say that the very
severe tone is due to that book from America.

The interrogating officers realise and know that I have
repeatedly pointed out - and so does my defence counsel -
that I wanted that book to be produced. It was in the
"Volkischer Beobachter."

If in America an author, called Erich Kauffmann, can
publicly demand that all men in Germany capable of having
children should be sterilised, for the purpose of
exterminating the German people, then I say, "an eye for an
eye" and "a tooth for a tooth." This is a theoretical
matter.

Q. Very well. I am sure we have heard your explanation.
Let's see what you have to say about your own article on the
same date. I quote from the middle of the next paragraph:-

  "But now, in the fourth year of this war, world Jewry is
  beginning to understand that the destiny of Jewry is
  finding its fulfilment at the hands of German National
  Socialism."

What did you mean by that? Perhaps I should have quoted a
little earlier,
going back to the beginning:-

  "When, with the outbreak of the second World War, world
  Jewry again began to manifest themselves as warmongers,
  Adolf Hitler announced to the world from the platform of
  the German Reichstag that the World War conjured up by
  world Jewry would result in the self-destruction of
  Jewry. This prophecy was the first big warning. It was
  met with derision from the Jews, as were all the
  subsequent warnings."

And then you go on to say:-

   "But now, in the fourth year of this war, world Jewry is
   beginning to understand that the destiny of Jewry is
   finding its fulfilment at the hands of National
   Socialism."

What did you mean by that?

A. Pardon me?

Q. What did you mean by saying "World Jewry is finding its
fulfilment at the hands of National Socialism?" How did you
mean that National Socialism was finding the fulfilment of
Jewry's destiny?

A. National Socialism could not fulfil the fate, that is to
say, find the solution, since the Fuehrer intervened. That
wasn't a solution.

During an interrogation I pointed out that I who personally
wanted a total solution, was, right from the beginning,
against trying to solve the Jewish problem by means of
pogroms. If I said that the destiny of Jewry was to be
fulfilled by National Socialism, then I wanted to say that
through National Socialism the world would gain the
knowledge and the realisation that the Jewish problem must
be solved internationally.

Q. Let us proceed:-

   "That which the Fuehrer of the German people announced
   to the world as a prophecy at the beginning of this
   second World War is now being fulfilled with unrelenting
   inevitability. World Jewry, which wanted to
   
                                                  [Page 340]
   
   reap big dividends from the blood of the warring
   nations, is rushing with gigantic steps towards its
   extirpation."

And again you use the word "Ausrottung."

Does that mean, just as it sounds, as though the fulfilment
that you were aiming at was warning the world about Jewry?
What did you mean by it? "Rushing with gigantic steps
towards its extirpation" - Ausrottung? What did you mean by
it?

A. This is a warning. The Fuehrer made a prophecy; nobody
could interpret that prophecy properly. The prophecy wasn't
quoted only in this article, but in ten others. Again and
again we referred to these prophecies, for the first time in
1929. Today we know what the Fuehrer wanted to say; at that
time we didn't. And I confess quite openly that with this
quotation we wanted to warn world Jewry.

To defend myself, I might mention in this connection that
the author, Dr. Emil Ludwig Kohn, who had left Germany and
emigrated to France, had written in the paper "Le Fanal," in
1934, "Hitler does not want war, but he is being forced into
it. Britain has the last word." Thus -

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