Archive/File: imt/nca/supp-b/nca-sb-02-kaltenbrunner.11
Last-Modified: 1997/11/24

         Nazi Conspiracy & Aggression, Supplement B
             Lynching of Enemy "Terror Aviators"
                              
     Excerpts from Testimony of Ernst Kaltenbrunner,
     taken at Nurnberg, Germany, 16 October 1945, 1030-
     1210, by Lt. Col. Smith W. Brookhart, IGD. Also
     present: Nancy M. Shields, BCV, Reporter; Captain
     H.W. Frank, Interpreter.
     
                                                 [Page 1311]

Q. I would like to have you tell us about the conference
that was held at the Fuehrer's headquarters on 6 June 1944
at Klessheim in the afternoon.

A. Yes.

Q. Do you recall that conference?

A. I don't know which conference you are talking about.

Q. (Referring to Doc. 735-ps) You were reported to the
Assistant Chief of the Command Staff of the Wehrmacht that a
discussion

                                                 [Page 1312]
                                                            
was held a short time before, between Goering, Ribbentrop
(as Foreign Secretary), Himmler (as Reichsfuehrer SS) on the
subject of the treatment of enemy "terror aviators."

A. I have never made such a report.

Q. Let me refresh you further. Whereas the Foreign Secretary
had wanted to include every type of "terror attack" against
the domestic population, agreement was reached at the
conference that only strafing committed directly against the
civilian population would be considered  a criminal act.

A. I have never participated in any such conference.

Q. I show you a photostatic copy of the secret summary of
Warlimont's conference with Kaltenbrunner on the lynching of
certain allied aviators, in its German text and ask you to
read it and tell us what you recall about the conference.

A. (Reading document) This is totally incorrect.

Q. Finish reading it, then tell us what you think you know
about it.

A. This must be a mix-up with the Reichsfuehrer SS or some
other person. I have never received an invitation to comment
on this question, but much later when I heard about it I
have spoken against it in reports.

Q. How much later?

A. That I cannot say but I assume it was in the summer of
1944.

Q. From whom did you hear about it?

A. These reports came from various districts of the Reich,
saying that the population intended to lynch these fliers
who had inflicted such punishment and caused so many
victims.

Q. But that was only after you had set up through your
organization a plan for going into and reporting on such
cases, isn't that right?

A. No. I have never made a plan but have summarized the
reports which I received and submitted the summary to a
higher authority, saying that such action was impossible.
You can see from one of the last paragraphs of this report
that the highest people in the Reich were occupied with this
question and I did not belong to that highest department.

Q. Without regard to what you belonged to, the fact is that
you conferred with Warlimont and you expressed views as
shown by this document?

A. No, I had no conference with Warlimont.

Q. Do you believe that this is not a correct copy of an
official document.

A. I don't know, but the contents are not correct.

                                                 [Page 1313]
                                                            
Q. You know that a very efficient German General Staff would
never write a top secret document without being sure of the
facts; isn't that right?

A. This can only be an error on the part of Warlimont
regarding the person.

Q. Another instance where everyone else is wrong but
Kaltenbrunner?

A. Permit me to suggest that you ask Warlimont. I have no
recollection of having had any discussion with him and under
the circumstances I do not believe that he would have said
it.

Q. What did you say when Warlimont asked whether cases
involving supposed criminal enemy fliers arose, of whether
the SD were in a position to investigate and construct such
cases in all details?

A. I have never discussed this subject with Warlimont.

Q. But you recall you told him that you were not in a
position to make such investigations or to prepare such
cases?

A. No.

INTERPRETER: He says it is necessary for him to say some
more on the subject. Do you want to hear it?

Q. As long as it is pertinent.

A. Warlimont says here: "To hand over to SD". Ask Warlimont
whether he considered the SD an executive department or not.

Q. Let us first ask Kaltenbrunner what he said when
Warlimont suggested that the procedure for the segregation
of such fliers should be handled through the SD?

A. He has never discussed that with me at all and I could
therefore have made no definition of my attitude. I am fully
convinced, however, that I know whom he has talked to about
this, but it was not me.

Q. Who was it?

A. It could only have been a person authorized by Himmler,
because this was a matter for the OKW [The OKW (Obercommando
der Wehrmacht) or Armed Forces High Command, headed by Field
Marshall Keitel.], the Foreign Minister and the
Reichsfuehrer SS office.

Q. It could have been anyone.

A. And it could only have been a person authorized in this
case by Himmler, who had continuous contact with him.

Q. It could have been anyone and this paper shows it was
Kaltenbrunner.

A. There is only one thing -- confront me with Warlimont and
see what he will say. He will say "No," because he cannot
say anything else.

                                                 [Page 1314]
                                                            
Q. There is only one Obergruppenfuehrer Kaltenbrunner, is
there not?

A. That is correct, and these matters were always handled by
one man in negotiations with the OKW and the Foreign
Ministry, who was authorized by Himmler, and that man was
Fegelein.

Q. Why do you persist in giving these answers which are
obviously in error and probably constitute perjury in the
face of established facts?

A. My punishment, I assume, will be the same in any case,
and I have therefore no cause to lie to you, but there is no
point in confirming someone's error in this case. I cannot
do that.

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