From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Apr 13 10:53:40 PDT 1996
Article: 30781 of alt.revisionism
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "10,000" extermination camps - "documented"
Date: 12 Apr 1996 14:06:46 GMT
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Yale F. Eideken wrote:

   	It might also vary with how you define "camps."  Many of the "camps" 
    were actually a complex of different camps.  One source I recently read 
    (Sacher; "Redemption of the Unwanted") states that Malthusan was actually 
    a compelx of 150 sub-camps.

Tom Moran replied:
  
    Okay, now we have "how you define 'camps'". In this case a
    place unto itself, within it's own, not part of another such as a camp
    site at at a camp ground. Not a "sub-camp".

Yale F. Eideken responded:  

    No the question is how Goldhagen defined "camps."  You have yet to 
    give us a quotation which would accurately reflect what he wrote.  Given your 
    history of fraud, lies, and misrepresentations about what you have "read" I have 
    yet to read a convincing explanation that he said what you claim that he has said.  
    Would you please provide it?


I bought Goldhagen's book yesterday (I splurged and used up all my bookcredits).
Of course I haven't read the entire thing, but in an effort to move this debate
forward, I offer the following direct quotations from "Hitler's Willing Executioners":

"A recent study of *all varieties* of German "camps" (including ghettos) has
identified a total of 10,005 positively, with the full knowledge that many more
existed which have not yet been uncovered.<15>  Among the ten thousand camps
(not all of which housed Jews), 941 forced labor camps designated specially for
Jews were within the borders of just (today's) Poland.  And additional 230
special camps for Hungarian Jews were set up on the Austrian border.  The 
Germans created 399 ghettos in Poland, 34 in East Galicia, 16 in small Lithuania.
So just the known forced labor camps and ghettos reserved for Jews totaled over
1,600.  In addition to these, there were 52 main concentration camps, which had 
a total of 1,202 satellite camps (aussenlager).<16>" p.167  [my emphasis,
parentheses and footnotes in original]

Goldhagen's footnotes:

"<15> Gudrun Schwarz, "Die nationalsozialistischen Lager" (Frankfurt/M: Campus
Verlag, 1990), p.221.  For example, it is not known how many ghettos existed in
Belorussia or in Ukraine (p.132).  It should be noted that the camps varied
enormously in size, from the vast Auschwitz complex to those in which Germans
incarcerated but a few dozen people." p.526

"<16> See Schwarz, "Die nationalsozialistischen Lager", pp.221-222, 
for a summary of the number of camps in each of the categories." p.526

I haven't actually got to the stuff about camps and camp personnel, 
but Goldhagen's analysis of antisemitism in Germany before and during 
the Nazi era is really interesting.  Mr. Moran, you might be interested 
to know that Goldhagen describes his research as "revisionist history".   

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