From mala!UICVM.UIC.EDU!LISTSERV Wed Nov 17 12:19:17 1993 X-Delivered: at request of kmcvay on oneb Return-Path:Received: by oneb.almanac.bc.ca (/\=-/\ Smail3.1.18.1 #18.33) id ; Wed, 17 Nov 93 12:18 PST Message-Id: Received: by mala.bc.ca (DECUS UUCP ///2.0/); Wed, 17 Nov 93 12:06:36 PST Received: from UICVM.UIC.EDU by MALINS.MALA.BC.CA (MX V3.3 VAX) with SMTP; Wed, 17 Nov 1993 12:02:20 PST Received: from UICVM.CC.UIC.EDU by UICVM.UIC.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R1) with BSMTP id 8664; Wed, 17 Nov 93 13:57:21 CST Received: from UICVM.UIC.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@UICVM) by UICVM.CC.UIC.EDU (LMail V1.1d/1.7f) with BSMTP id 7764; Wed, 17 Nov 1993 13:33:04 -0600 Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1993 13:32:55 -0600 From: BITNET list server at UICVM (1.7f) Subject: File: "HOLOCAUS LOG9306" To: Ken McVay Status: O ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1993 11:26:12 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: Jerry Rosenberg Subject: films and photographs A number of years ago Yad Vashem put out a microfiche photographic record of some 15,000 pictures from their files. It is available from Research Publictions, Inc., Drawer AB, 12 Lunar Drive , Woodbridge, CT 06525, (203) 397-2600. In terms of films and videos, Memories of the Camps from Frontline and #20 in the World at War series contain excellent footage on the process and consequences of extermination. I believe there is also some footage on the Einsatzgruppen killings on the Eastern front. Jerry Rosenberg ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1993 09:07:59 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: Roger Simon Subject: Re: films and photographs Recently I visited the new Museum of Tolerance-Beit HaShoah in Los Angles. The museum contains an extensive number of computer terminals connected to an elaborate software system and data base stored on lazer disc. THis system allows for the retrieval of photographs, documentary film, video, and text related to various aspects of the Holocaust. There are audio tracks available for the film and video. While exploring this data base I retrieved two documentary films the first showing killings on the Eastern Front [the footage was tinged in sepia], the second was footage on the use of gas vans for mass killings. Both documents were accompanied by sound tracks...the first with gun shots and bullet whines, the second with the clanking and creaking of the metal doors of the van as they were opened and closed. I had seen similar visual scenes numereous times in documentary footage but I had never before seen any sequences with soundtracks. They were obviously dubbed [e.g. no voices were heard in the shooting scence in the first sequence]. I asked the staff member at the musuem information desk if he had any information on these visual sequences. He said that they were Soviet footage and in all probability "staged" sequences. He did not know if they had been additionally dubbed in the United States. Does anyone have information on "staged" Soviet documentary film related to the Holocaust and whether or not these sequences have circulated with audio tracks? It should also be noted that no where in the computer data base is it mentioned that the film sequences are in all probability "staged". R_SIMON ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1993 09:09:20 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: Danny Keren Subject: Re: Hard evidence for the Final Solution? I received a few e-mail requests about Holocaust related GIF files. This is the list of files I have; I hope the moderator will be kind enough to post it, although it's long... I am looking into Steve Carr's suggestion as to where to store the GIFs, and will update the list when some arrangement is found. There was an offer for an additional site as well. So, here is the list: Aerial-View-Of-Krema-III.gif ---------------------------- [PHoH, p. 287] A detail from a photograph of the Auschwitz-Birkenau extermination camp, taken by a US plane in 25 August 1944. Krema III is clearly seen, and the roof vents through which the Zyklon-B was introduced are visible. Later, Kremas II-V were destroyed by the SS (see, for instance, "Chamber-Overview.gif"). Auschwitz-Glasses.gif ---------------------- [AotH, Vol. I part 2, picture number 827] A pile of the victims glasses at Auschwitz. Auschwitz-Shoes.gif ---------------------------- [Pressac, p. 420] Sorting the shoes of victims in Auschwitz. Like all the other property of the victims, it was sent to Germany, except for what was left in the camp by the fleeing SS. Belsen-Mass-Grave.gif ---------------------------- [Belsen, p. 256] A mass grave in the Belsen camp. Belzec-Shoes.gif ---------------- [KZ-STAAT, p. 144] Pile of the victims shoes at the Belzec extermination camp. Brutalizing-Polish-Jews-1.gif ---------------------------- [PHoH, p. 75] German soldiers brutalizing a Jew in Poland. Brutalizing-Polish-Jews-2.gif ---------------------------- [PHoH, p. 79] Geramn soldiers cutting the beard of an elderly Jew in Poland. Chamber-Overview.gif ---------------------------- [Pressac, p. 261] The current state of the gas chamber of Krema II in Auschwitz; it was dynamited by the fleeing SS in an attempt to hide its criminal purpose and usage. Cremation-Pit.gif ---------------------------- [Pressac, p. 422] One of the cremation pits used to burn the victims of the gas chambers in Auschwitz. These "burning pits" were used mainly in the summer of 1944, when the extermination was going at such a rate that the furnaces couldn't handle the number of corpses. Detail-Plan-Chamber-1.gif ---------------------------- [Pressac, p. 302] A detail from the plan for the gas chamber of Krema II in Auschwitz (designated L. Keller 1, or "corpse cellar 1", in this drawing). it is clear that its doors are designed to open outward (contrary to what the Holocaust deniers say) to make the removal of the corpses easier. Later, they were changed to a single door, opening outward. Doc-Furnace-Capacity.gif ---------------------------- [Pressac, p. 247] In a letter from SS-Sturmbannfuehrer Jahrling to SS-General Kammler, the cremating capacity of the five Auschwitz crematoriums is specified as 4,756 per 24 working hours. Door.gif ---------------------------- [Pressac, p. 486] Both sides of a door which probably was used in a homicidal gas chamber in Auschwitz, and was discovered in the building yard of the camp. Note the protective grid for the peephole, placed on the *inside* of the door, which is gas tight and reinforced. EG1.gif ---------------------------- [TGOD, p. 132] A mass execution of Jews in Nazi occupied Soviet Union. EG2.gif ---------------------------- [TGOD, p. 162] A mass execution of Jews in Nazi occupied Soviet Union. The SS man is firing at a Jewish woman who is wounded and trying to get up. EG3.gif ---------------------------- [Himmler, p. 434] A mass execution of Jews in Nazi occupied Soviet Union. Naked Jews, including a young boy, just before their murder. EG4.gif ---------------------------- [PHoH, p. 186] A mass execution of Jews in Nazi occupied Ukraine. Furnaces.gif ---------------------------- [Pressac, p. 334] The furnaces of Krema II in Auschwitz. Gas-Chambers-Of-Krema-IV.gif ---------------------------- [Pressac, p. 417] The gas chambers of Krema IV in Auschwitz. As opposed to Kremas II and III, these gas chambers were above ground, and the Zyklon-B was introduced through small openings in the wall (visible in the photograph). German-Classroom.gif -------------------- [PHoH, p. 37] Circa 1935: two Jewish pupils are humiliated before their classmates. The inscription on the blackboard reads "The Jew is our greatest enemy, beware of the Jew". German-Soldiers.gif ---------------------------- [PHoH, p. 71] German soldiers on the way to Poland. The inscription on the railway car reads: "We are going to Poland to strike at the Jews". On the left, an antisemitic drawing of a Jew. Himmler-Report.gif ------------------ [Fleming, p. 92] A report from Himmler to Hitler, listing 363,211 Jews murdered in the Nazi occupied Soviet Union during August-November of 1942. Inventory-Chamber.gif ---------------------------- [Pressac, p. 438] An inventory for the underground floor of Krema III in Auschwitz, specifying the presence of "14 brausen" (14 shower heads) and one "gasdichtetur" (gas-tight door) in the gas chamber (Leichenkeller 1). This room, sometimes referred to as a "gassing cellar" in the SS-correspondence, had fake shower heads installed to mislead the victims into believing they were going to be washed. "Leichenkeller 2" (referred to many times as an "undressing room" in SS-correspondence), doesn't have a gas tight door neither shower heads. Jewish-Fighters-In-Warsaw.gif ----------------------------- [PHoH, p. 329] When the Jews of the Warsaw ghetto learned the truth about the "resettlement" action, some of them rebelled. The Nazis responded by shelling and bombing the ghetto, till all the occupants died or surrendered. Krema-IV-Overview.gif ---------------------------- [Pressac, p. 418] An overview of Krema IV in Auschwitz. The gas chambers are in the back; in the foreground, the morgue and the crematorium. Kremas II-V were destroyed by the SS before they fled the camp. Kristallnacht.gif ---------------------------- [PHoH, p. 58] A synagogue burns in Siegen, Germany, on November 10, 1938 - "Kristallnacht". Maidanek-Shoes.gif ------------------- [AotH, Vol. I part 2, picture number 863] A pile of the victims shoes at Maidanek. Majdanek.gif ---------------------------- [KZ-STAAT, p. 144] A scene of horror at the extermination camp of Maidanek: possibly in a desperate attempt to cover their tracks, the SS burned corpses of victims. Map-EinsatzGruppe-A.gif ---------------------------- [NCaA, Vol. VIII, p. 773] part of a report detailing murder of Jews in the Nazi occupied Baltic states and white Russia by Einsatzgruppe (special action unit) A, submitted at February 1, 1942. There were four such "Einsatzgruppen" who carried out the massacres of Jews in the Soviet Union. Medical-Experiments-1.gif ---------------------------- [PHoH, p. 310] Children subjected to medical experiments in Auschwitz. Medical-Experiments-2.gif ---------------------------- [ToWC, Vol. I, p. 899] High-Altitude medical experiments in Dachau. In order to test how pilots who have to eject from their planes will fare, SS doctors simulated high-altitude conditions in a chamber, and exposed people to these conditions. Many prisoners died during such experiments. In order for the simulation to be as real as possible, the prisoner is hung by parachute straps. Medical-Experiments-3.gif ---------------------------- [ToWC, Vol. I, p. 907] Scenes of horror at Nazi concentration camps, were people were subjected to medical experiments. Medical-Experiments-4.gif ---------------------------- [PHoH, p. 310] Nazi medical experiments: a prisoner is submerged in a tank filled with cold water. The goal of this type of experiments was to check how long German pilots, who had to parachute into the cold north sea, would survive. Different types of clothing were tested, as well as different methods for reviving the experimental subjects who survived. Plan-Chamber-1.gif ---------------------------- [Pressac, p. 322] The plan of the gas chamber of Krema II in Auschwitz. The air extraction system (which the Holocaust deniers claim didn't exist) is clearly shown: "entluftungskanal" means air extraction duct, and "Beluftung" means ventilation. Remains of the air-extraction system can still be seen in the ruins. Resettlement-Of-Jews.gif ---------------------------- [Pressac, p. 557] A letter asking for a truck to bring Zyklon-B to Auschwitz; uses the standard camouflage term "resettlement of Jews" to refer to extermination. Another such document asks for "material for special treatment" - another term used to disguise extermination (more on these terms in the file of "Original Nazi documents"). Comments inside square brackets [...] are mine. Radio message 13 SS Garrison Radio Station Auschwitz Origin WVHA [SS economic administration head office] Received 2nd October 1942 in the Kommandantur of Auschwitz Concentration camp The movement authorization for one 5 Ton truck with trailer to Dessau and back in order to pick up material for the resettlement of the Jews, is hereby accorded. The authorization is to be given to the driver. Liebehenschel SS Lieutenant Colonel Permanent representative of the head of the service with the rank of Waffen SS Lieutenant General For file [That's what the F.D.R initial] Head of the radio station Shrunken-Head-Buchenwald.gif ---------------------------- [TMWC, Vol. XXXII, p. 271] A shrunken head of a prisoner, discovered at the Buchenwald camp. In order to terrorize the other prisoners, the SS guards hanged two shrunken heads in the middle of the camp. Teeth.gif ---------------------------- [TMWC, Vol. XXX, p. 433] The spoils of the victims: gold teeth and dental work, collected by the Nazis. After the war, the allies found many documents listing quantities of gold teeth transferred from the camps to banks inside Germany; also, a secret vault was discovered, containing (among other valuables) 384 pounds of gold and silver teeth. Treblinka-Mass-Grave.gif ---------------------------- [PHoH, p. 299] A mass grave in the Treblinka extermination camp. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1993 12:47:07 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: RICHARD JENSEN Subject: Annenberg Postdoc Fellowships ANNENBERG RESEARCH INSTITUTE/CENTER FOR JUDAIC STUDIES University of Pennsylvania Post Doctoral Fellowships 1994/95 Dissertation Fellowships Application Deadline November 1, 1993 The Center invites applications from scholars engaged in advanced research in Judaic and Near Eastern Studies, the latter including pre-Christian, Christian, and Islamic history and culture, from ancient to modern times. A few fellowships will be available for advanced graduate students writing their dissertations on relevant topics. Any topic within these fields may be proposed. For academic year 1994-95, the main topic of investigation will be: HISTORY -- REMEMBERED, RECOVERED, INVENTED: HISTORICAL MEMORY AND THE CONSTRUCTION OF TRADITION In the self-definition of human societies, historical memory, research, and invention are important standard elements. A variety of materials (creation myths, foundation legends, sacred history, stories of the lives of religious and national heroes and villains, and the like) preserved, recovered, and embellished, help to determine group identities and group solidarity. How have these processes, and the resultant visions of the past, influenced Jewish, Christian and Muslim societies in previous eras? What roles do they play today in an age of assertive nationalisms, politicized religions, and self-conscious ethnicities? Preference will be given to projects relevant to this topic, although others may be considered. Stipend amounts are based on a Fellow's academic standing and financial need, with a maximum of $35,000 for the academic year. A contribution may also be made towards travel expenses. Awards will be announced January 15, 1994. For application material and further information, write to: Secretary, Fellowship Program Annenberg Research Institute Center for Judaic Studies 420 Walnut Street Philadelphia, PA 19106 (telephone) 215-238-1290 (fax) 215-238-1540 (bitnet) ALLEN@ANNENRES ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1993 12:48:14 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: RICHARD JENSEN Subject: H-Net Guide to Holocaust & Judaica Libraries H-Net OnLine Guide to HOLOCAUST/JUDAICA Research Centers from HOLOCAUS@uicvm & Library of Congress 1. Ann Arbor. Latin American Jewish Studies Association (LAJSA) 2104 Georgetown Blvd. Ann Arbor, MI 48105 Tel: (313) 996-2880 AREAS OF INTEREST: Research and scholarship on Latin American Jewry, including history and contemporary life. HOLDINGS: Library of serial and monographic publications. LAJSA is currently compiling a computerized data base to select data. PUBLICATIONS: Semiannual newsletter (each issue includes a bibliography of current publications related to Latin American Jewry);Resources for Latin American Jewish Studies (1984); membership directory; conference proceedings. INFORMATION SERVICES: Answers inquiries; provides advisory and reference services and information on research in progress; evaluates and analyzes data; conducts seminars and workshops; distributes publications; makes referrals to other sources of information; permits limited onsite use of collections. Services are available to anyone upon payment of membership fees. 2. Atlanta. Emory University Fred R. Crawford Witness to the Holocaust Project Emory University Atlanta, GA 30322 Tel: (404) 329-6428 AREAS OF INTEREST: The Project collects oral, video, and written testimony of witnesses to the German concentration camps of World War II, principally American soldiers liberating the camps, medical personnel, relief workers, and the press. HOLDINGS: 110 transcripts of oral interviews of American liberators of German concentration camps; about 300 photographs of over 20 concentration camps; library of about 200 volumes; subject file on the Jewish Holocaust covering about 50 related topics. PUBLICATIONS: Emory Studies on the Holocaust; Dachau; KZ: A Pictorial Report from Five Concentration Camps; In the Shadow of the Flames: Six Lectures on the Holocaust. A publications pricelist is available. INFORMATION SERVICES: Answers inquiries; provides information on research in progress; distributes publications; makes referrals to other sources of information; permits onsite use of collections. Except for publications, services are free and all are available to anyone. 3. Berkeley. Judah L. Magnes Memorial Museum Western Jewish History Center Judah L. Magnes Memorial Museum 2911 Russell St. Berkeley, CA 94705 Tel: (415) 849-2710 AREAS OF INTEREST: History of Jewish individuals, businesses, institutions, and organizations in the Western United States. HOLDINGS: Manuscripts and printed sources documenting Western United States Jewish history; about 12,000 photographs; oral histories; periodicals; tapes; microfiche; microfilm. PUBLICATIONS: Guide to Archival and Oral History Collections; books, journal articles, bibliographies, directories. A publications list is available. INFORMATION SERVICES: Answers inquiries; provides reference, reproduction, and microform services; makes interlibrary loans of books only; sponsors seminars and workshops; makes referrals to other sources of information; permits onsite use of collections. Publications, reproductions, and extensive reference services are subject to a fee; other services are free. All are available to anyone. 4. Cincinnati. Hebrew Union College American Jewish Archives Hebrew Union College 3101 Clifton Ave. Cincinnati, OH 45220 Tel: (513) 221-1875 AREAS OF INTEREST: Jewish life and history in the Western Hemisphere. HOLDINGS: The Archives houses manuscript materials, predominately, but not exclusively, from North American sources, some of them dating back to the late 16th century. There are some 8 million pages of material, in addition to newspaper and periodical clippings, pamphlets, brochures, and photos. Languages represented include English, Hebrew, Yiddish, German, Spanish, French, Ladino, Portuguese, and Dutch. PUBLICATIONS: American Jewish Archives (semiannual historical journal); The Manuscript Catalog of the American Jewish Archives (1977, 5 vols., published by G.K. Hall & Co., Boston); occasional monographs and brochures. INFORMATION SERVICES: Most of the material may be studied in the Archives. Services include limited literature searches, limited answers to inquiries, referral to other sources of information, and authentication of documents. An hourly fee is charged for services requiring more than an hour of staff time. A copying service is also available, and translators can be recommended for foreign language materials. 5. Denver. University of Denver Center for Judaic Studies University of Denver Denver, CO 80208 Tel: (303) 753-2068 The Center has received grants from the Jewish Culture Foundation of the University of Denver, the National Foundation for Jewish Culture, the Phillips Foundation, the Hebrew Culture Foundation, the United Methodist Church Board of Higher Education, the Beaumont Foundation, the Allied Jewish Federation of Denver, and from numerous private foundations and individuals. AREAS OF INTEREST: History of Judaism, the Jews, and Israel; Biblical studies; American judaism; Jewish life, institutions, and services in the Rocky Mountain region; Hebrew language and literature; the Holocaust, interfaith studies; Jewish social ethics. HOLDINGS: The Ira M. Beck Memorial Archives of Rocky Mountain Jewish History contains newspapers, manuscripts, private papers, pictorial and oral histories, memorabilia, and documents reflecting the history of organizations and businesses, and the lives of individuals who have contributed to the building of Jewish life in the area. The Solomon Shwayder Memorial Library in Hebraic Studies contains over 12,000 volumes. PUBLICATIONS: Rocky Mountain Jewish Historical Notes (quarterly); books, reprints, sound filmstrip. A publications list is available. INFORMATION SERVICES: Answers inquiries; provides advisory, copying, and microform services; conducts courses, conferences, symposia, and weekend retreats; distributes publications and data compilations; maintains a speakers bureau; makes referrals to other sources of information; provides demographic research services to community agencies; permits onsite use of collections. Services may be subject to a fee and are available to anyone. 6. LA. Friends of Le Chambon, Inc. 8033 Sunset Blvd., Room 784 Los Angeles, CA 90046 Tel: (213) 650-1774 AREAS OF INTEREST: Holocaust studies; non-Jewish rescuers of Jewish refugees from German persecution. HOLDINGS: Documents and photographs relating to the above areas. PUBLICATIONS: Journal articles; bibliographies; reprints. INFORMATION SERVICES: Answers inquiries; provides advisory and reference services; evaluates data; conducts seminars and workshops; distributes publications; makes referrals to other sources of information; permits onsite use of collections. Services may be subject to fees and all are available to anyone. 7. LA. Yeshiva University of Los Angeles Simon Wiesenthal Center Yeshiva University of Los Angeles 9760 West Pico Blvd. Los Angeles, CA 90035 Tel: (213) 553-9036 or 553-4478 AREAS OF INTEREST: Jewish history, identity, religion, heritage, philosophy, life, and law; anti-Semitism; the Bible; the Talmud; holocaust studies. HOLDINGS: Collections of books, periodicals, artifacts, archives (including film and photo), oral histories, pamphlets, and media materials; access to the NEXIS computerized data base and the AP wire service. PUBLICATIONS: Response (quarterly magazine); Simon Wiesenthal Center annual; Simon Wiesenthal Monograph Series; Page One (syndicated radio magazine). INFORMATION SERVICES: Answers inquiries or refers inquirers to other sources of information; provides advisory, reference, literature-searching, and current-awareness services; provides reproduction services for fee; conducts seminars; lends materials (with some limitations; nonmembers may leave a refundable deposit); permits onsite use of collections. Most services are available to anyone. 8. Montreal. Canadian Jewish Congress National Archives Canadian Jewish Congress 1590 Avenue Docteur Penfield Montreal, Quebec, CANADA H3G 1C5 Tel: (514) 931-7531 AREAS OF INTEREST: All aspects and concerns of the Jewish community in Canada, including immigration, integration into Canadian society, Jewish identity, community organization, religious practice, Zionism, discrimination, oppressed Jewry in foreign countries, politics, business, literature, education, and youth. HOLDINGS: Manuscript collections, monographs, periodicals, journals, scrapbooks, pamphlets, sound tapes, microfilms, photographs, memorabilia. PUBLICATIONS: Canadian Jewish Archives (monograph series); Clouds in the Thirties, on Anti-Semitism in Canada, 1929-1939 (13-vol. series). A publications pricelist is available. INFORMATION SERVICES: Answers inquiries; provides advisory, reference, and reproduction services; provides computer data base searches upon request; distributes publications; makes referrals to other sources of information; permits onsite use of collections by appointment. Except for reproductions and publications, services are free and all are available to anyone. 9. NYC. American Jewish Committee (AJC) Blaustein Library American Jewish Committee 165 East 56th St. New York, NY 10022 Tel: (212) 751-4000 A nonprofit organization, AJC is the American pioneer human relations organization founded in 1906. It combats bigotry, protects the civil and religious rights of people in the United States and abroad, and advances the cause of improved human relations for all people everywhere. AREAS OF INTEREST: Contemporary American Jewish communal affairs; Jewry; family; Jewish identity; intergroup relations; civil rights and civil liberties; interreligious relation; Jewish life in the Diaspora. HOLDINGS: Archival collection of AJC's history; anti-Semitic materials, both American and foreign. PUBLICATIONS: Recent Additions to the Library (quarterly); journal articles (about 8 a year). AJC publishes Commentary (monthly journal), Present Tense (quarterly journal), American Jewish Yearbook, other books, journal articles, and reprints. INFORMATION SERVICES: Answers inquiries; provides reference, literature-searching, abstracting, indexing, and reproduction services; makes referrals to other sources of information; permits onsite use of collections. Services are free, except for reproduction services, and available primarily for the staff, but others will be assisted. 10. NYC. American Jewish Congress 15 East 84th St. New York, NY 10028 Tel: (212) 879-4500 The Congress is a nonprofit organization. AREAS OF INTEREST: All aspects of minority rights; church-state relations; religious freedom; Jewish rights around the world; Jews in Arab lands; Israel; Soviet Jewry; health care; the elderly; women's rights; constitutional freedoms; unemployment; cults; Jewish history and culture. HOLDINGS: Materials on the areas above. PUBLICATIONS: Congress Monthly; Judaism (quarterly journal); books, reports, critical reviews, research summaries, bibliographies, reprints. INFORMATION SERVICES: Answers inquiries; provides advisory services; conducts seminars and workshops; evaluates data; distributes data compilations and publications; makes referrals to other sources of information; permits onsite use of collection. Services are free, except for publications, and available to anyone. 11. NYC. Jewish Museum 1109 Fifth Ave. New York, NY 10028 Tel: (212) 860-1888 A nonprofit organization under the auspices of The Jewish Theological Seminary of America, the Museum is the main repository in the United States for arts and artifacts representing Jewish culture and the largest museum devoted to creating changing exhibitions relating to Jewish culture. AREAS OF INTEREST: Jewish art life, culture, and history. HOLDINGS: Collection of 15,000 works in all media, including of archaeology, numismastics, fine arts, and ethnography. Subjects of permanent exhibits include the Holocaust; Biblical Archaeology from Iron Age and Second Temple periods; coins dating from the 6th century B.C.E. to modern times; medals of Jewish personalities and events of historical interest; extensive collection of textiles used in the home and synagogue; ceremonial objects, including those from the destroyed Danzig Jewish community; paintings, graphics, sculpture, and photographs illustrative of the Jewish experience; and ceremonial objects from around the world (shown in changing exhibits). PUBLICATIONS: Quarterly newsletter and calendar of events; catalogs of Museum exhibits; limited edition graphics; posters; educational exhibition brochures and guides. INFORMATION SERVICES: Answers inquiries; conducts tours of special exhibitions and permanent installations, lectures, film showings, and concerts; lends materials; makes referrals to other sources of information. Special classes and programs for children are conducted by the Education Department. The Museum Shop sells books, catalogs, posters, some adaptations of objects in the permanent collections, and other items of Jewish interest. 12. NYC. Jewish Theological Seminary of America Library Jewish Theological Seminary of America 3080 Broadway New York, NY 10027 Tel: (212) 678-8080 AREAS OF INTEREST: Religious education; Judaica; Rabbinics; history and sociology of the Jews; Israel; Hebrew language and literature; Bible; liturgy. HOLDINGS: 270,000 volumes; 715 periodical subscriptions; 10,000 manuscripts; 15,000 rare books; archives; prints; access to OCLC. PUBLICATIONS: New Acquisition List (monthly); Between the Lines (quarterly). INFORMATION SERVICES: Answers inquiries; provides advisory, reference, and reproduction services; makes direct and interlibrary loans; permits onsite use of collection; searches DIALOG. All services, except reproduction services, are free. Direct loan services are limited to faculty, students, alumni, and members; other services are available to anyone. 13. NYC. Leo Baeck Institute, Inc. (LBI) 129 East 73d St. New York, NY 10021 Tel: (212) 744-6400 Partially sponsored by the National Endowment for the Humanities, the National Endowment for the Arts, and various foundations, LBI is a research, study, and lecture center, library, archives, and museum concerned with the life and history of centuries-old German Jewry, including the life and history of other German-speaking Jewries, from the 18th century until its end in Nazi days. LBI works closely with the Leo Baeck Institutes in Jerusalem and London. AREAS OF INTEREST: Literature, art, and history of German-speaking Jews. HOLDINGS: 60,000-volume library; art collection of more than 100 oil paintings and 4,000 drawings and prints; archive of 2,500 collections, including literary estates, community documents, autographs, and genealogical material. The Catalog of the Archive is computerized. PUBLICATIONS: LBI News and Leo Baeck Institute Library and Archives News (both semiannual); Leo Baeck Institute Yearbook (29 vols. to date); Leo Baeck Institute Bulletin (68 issues); books, bibliographies. A publications list is available. INFORMATION SERVICES: Answers inquiries; provides reference, literature-searching, and duplication services; conducts lectures, faculty seminars, and artwork and archival rarity exhibits; makes interlibrary loans; distributes publications; makes referrals to other sources of information; permits onsite use of collections. Services are free, except for duplication services, and available to anyone. 14. NYC. National Foundation for Jewish Culture (NFJC) 330 7th Ave., 21st Floor New York, NY 10001 Tel: (212) 629-0500 NFJC is a nonprofit organization. AREAS OF INTEREST: Doctoral dissertations and other studies related to Jewish life, literature, history, ethnic theater, ethnomusicology, libraries, archives, etc. INFORMATION SERVICES: Provides consultation, guidance, and support to Jewish communities, organizations, educational and other institutions, and individuals for activities in the field of Jewish culture; awards fellowships and other grants to students preparing for careers in Jewish scholarship and to established scholars; makes awards for creative efforts in Jewish cultural arts and for Jewish programming in small and intermediate communities; encourages teaching of Jewish studies in colleges and universities; serves as a clearinghouse of information on American Jewish culture. 15. NYC. World Federation of Bergen Belsen Associations P.O. Box 232, Lenox Hill Station New York, NY 10021 Tel: (212) 752-0600 AREAS OF INTEREST: Memorials and commemorations for the victims of the Jewish Holocaust of World War II; preservation of sites at the former Belsen death camps. PUBLICATIONS: Bergen-Belsen Memorial Press; journal articles. INFORMATION SERVICES: Answers inquiries; provides advisory, reference, literature-searching, and current-awareness services; evaluates and analyzes data; conducts seminars and workshops; distributes publications; makes referrals to other sources of information. Services are available free to anyone. 16. NYC. YIVO Institute for Jewish Research 1048 Fifth Ave. New York, NY 10028 Tel: (212) 535-6700 An institution devoted to the study of Jewish life, past and present, the YIVO Institute's activities include maintaining a library and archives; research projects; the training of younger scholars; exhibits; publications; and public programs and conferences. AREAS OF INTEREST: Jewish life and culture in Eastern Europe; the Holocaust; the period of Jewish mass settlement in the United States and other countries; Yiddish language, literature, theatre, and folklore. HOLDINGS: Over 22 million archival items, including letters, documents, photographs, manuscripts, and organizational records; over 300,000 volumes, including rare books and periodicals; a photographic collection of about 100,000 items; immigration records comprising over 3 million pages; a Yiddish theater collection that includes manuscripts, correspondence, programs, photographs, sheet music, and other memorabilia; slide bank; art collection; PUBLICATIONS: YIVO Annual of Jewish Social Science; YIVO-bleter; Yidishe shprakh ; News of the YIVO; books, monographs. A list of currently available publications is available. INFORMATION SERVICES: Provides consulting, genealogical research, and reference services; answers inquiries or makes referrals to other institutions. Limited bibliographic service is provided free, but there is a charge for extensive research. Photocopies, microfilm, and reproductions of photographs may be purchased. 17. NYC City University of New York Graduate School and University Center Jack P. Eisner Institute for Holocaust Studies Graduate School and University Center, CUNY 33 West 42d St., Room 1450 New York, NY 10036 Tel: (212) 790-4517 The Institute is sponsored by the Holocaust Survivors Memorial Foundation. AREAS OF INTEREST: Teaching, research, and scholarship programs in Holocaust studies; inservice education for teachers in Holocaust studies. HOLDINGS: Videotapes of Holocaust survivors; videotapes of seminars and lectures on Holocaust studies; unique archival collection of documents pertaining to the Holocaust in Hungary. PUBLICATIONS: Perspectives on the Holocaust; Contemporary Views on the Holocaust; Genocide and Retribution: The Holocaust in Hungarian-ruled Northern Transylvania; The Hungarian Jewish Catastrophe: A Selected and Annotated Bibliography; Jewish Leadership During the Nazi Era: Patterns of Behavior in the Free World; The Holocaust in Hungary--40 Years Later (1985); The Origins of the Holocaust Christian Anti-Semitism (1986); The Halutz Resistance in Hungary, l942-l944 (1986 Depositions); The Tragedy of Hungarian Jewry: Essays, Documents (1986); The Treatment of the Holocaust in Textbooks (1987). INFORMATION SERVICES: Answers inquiries; provides advisory and consulting services; conducts seminars and lectures; makes referrals to other sources of information. Formal courses are restricted to junior high and high school teachers and service personnel. Public lectures and information services are free to all. 18. Washington. African and Middle Eastern Division Hebraic Section African and Middle Eastern Division Libary of Congress 10 First St. SE. Washington, DC 20540 Tel: (202) 707-5422 Hours: 8:30 a.m.-5 p.m. Mon.-Fri.; closed Sat., Sun., and holidays. AREAS OF INTEREST: Israel; Jews and Judaism in all parts of the world; Jewish history; the Bible; Hebrew, Yiddish, and Amharic literature; ancient Middle East, its Semitic cultures and languages; Zionism; anti-Semitism; Holocaust. HOLDINGS: Collections on areas of interest primarily in Hebrew, with additional holdings in Yiddish, Aramaic, Syriac, Amharic, and cognate languages; reference and bibliographic tools, including national union catalogs of Hebraica and Yiddica, recording the holdings of all major American collections. INFORMATION SERVICES: Answers inquiries; makes referrals; provides reference and bibliographic services. Special reference materials are available for onsite use only. [this list may be freely copied & circulated; please cite HOLOCAUS@uicvm] ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1993 15:07:23 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: HOPKINSD@EWC.BITNET Subject: Teaching the Holocaust I thought folks might be interested in knowing that in the May-June issue of the Horn Book (which reviews children's literature) there is a personal essay of one teacher's experience of working with a high school class to teach about the Holocaust. If there are any teachers on the list you might find it interesting. D. Hopkinson ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1993 09:05:29 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: "Seth L. Ness" Subject: dominican republic In-Reply-To: <199306022010.AA25323@alsys1.aecom.yu.edu> hi, does anybody have information about, or can give me reference to look for about jewish refugees in the dominican republic during the holocaust. my grandfather was one of them and i'd like to know more. thanks. Seth L. Ness Ness Gadol Hayah Sham ness@aecom.yu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1993 11:54:11 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: Daniel Burstein Subject: anyone hear of the "gottsheer" group? In-Reply-To: <199306031408.AA22895@sun.Panix.Com> A reporter friend of mine noted that there one of the groups in the (former) Yugoslavia is a faction in the civil war there, and has been making references to how they were involved in the fighting during World War two. The group's name is the "gottscheer," and apparently they were on the receiveing end of some nastiness by the Slovinians during the war. We can't find any info on them, and were wondering if the name rings any sort of bells to the people on this List. thanks dannyb@panix.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1993 11:55:10 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: "David Hirsch, Bibliographers Group" Subject: (COPY) ORION BIBLIOGRAPHY In response to Seth Ness' question, there are at least a couple of books about the Jewish community in the Dominican Republic, which at its peak probably numbered a little over a thousand. The two references below refer to a Jewish agricultural colony in Sosua, Dominican Republic. A small community still exists there, as well as in Santo Domingo. Both of these items are held at UCLA and can be obtained via Interlibrary Loan. Hyman Kisch wrote a thesis entitled: The Jewish Settlement from Central Europe in the Dominican Republic. Jewish Theological Seminary, 1970. You may be able to obtain this from another source. Good luck. David Hirsch ORION Number: 3492210MC Author: Eichen, Josef David. Title: Sosua, una colonia hebrea en la Republica Dominicana / Josef David Eichen. Published: Santiago, Republica Dominicana : Universidad Catolica Madre y Maestra, Departamento de Publicaciones, 1980. Description: 126 p. : ill., ports. ; 22 cm. Series: Coleccion Estudios (Universidad Catolica Madre y Maestra) ; 54. Subject(s): Jews--Dominican Republic--Sosua--History. Jews--Colonization--Dominican Republic--Sosua. Refugees, Jewish--Dominican Republic--Sosua. Sosua (Dominican Republic)--Ethnic relations. LIBRARY: URL Call number: F 1941 J4 E37 1980 Status: Checked Out -- Due 08/27/93. ORION Number: 4453894MC Author: Kaetsch, Siegfried. Title: Sosua, verheissenes Land. Eine Dokumentation zu Adaptionsproblemen deutsch-juedischer Siedler in der Dominikanischen Republik. [Von] Siegfried Kaetsch [und] Elke- Maria Kaetsch. Unter Mitarb. von Henry P[hilip] David. (Red. durch das Sekretariat des Forschungsschwerpunkts Lateinamerika der Univ. Bielefeld.) Published: Dortmund (Univ. Muenster, Sozialforschungsstelle, Kontaktprogramm zur Sozialwissenschaftlichen Forschung in Latein-Amerika) 1970. Description: 297 p. 21 cm. Series: Arbeitsunterlage zur Lateinamerikaforschung, 38/39 Subject(s): Jews in Sosua, Dominican Republic. Land settlement--Sosua, Dominican Republic. Refugees, Jewish. Other Names: Kaetsch, Elke Maria, joint author. David, Henry Philip, 1923- joint author. Notes: Bibliography: p. 279-280. LIBRARY: URL Call number: F 1401 A666 no.38-39 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1993 22:44:27 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: "Kenneth.Waltzer" <21409MGR@msu.edu> Subject: Jewish Underground in Poland I am writing on American Jewish Labor's Response to the Holocaust. A piece of this concerns aid sent through the Polish Gov't in Exile to Poland to the Jewish Underground to dispense to Jews in hiding, 1943-44. Can anyone direct me to survivors or to memoirs concerning Jews in hiding who were served by such aid distributed by couriers of the Jewish Underground. I have interviewed Vladka Meed and read her memoir. Meed was a courier On The Other Side of the Wall. Can anyone suggest additional sources? leads? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1993 22:53:17 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: Sam Silverman Subject: Dominican Republic On refugee settlement in the Dominican Republic see also "Refugee Settlement in the Dominican Republic: A survey conducted under the auspices of the Brookings Institution" Washington, DC: The Brookings Institution, 1942. It contains a chapter on the Sosua colony. Sam Silverman SILVERSA@BCVMS ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1993 23:00:40 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: LC0380@ALBNYVMS.BITNET Subject: Holocaust Denial The following is a reprint of an article that appeared in the June 3, 1993 issue of "The Jewish World," a weekly newspaper from Albany, New York. The article reviews the recently-published book from the American Jewish Committee, "Holocaust Denial" written by Kenneth Stern. Many interesting ideas are covered, and it seemed well worthwhile to post a review on this very disturbing topic. The article (which has no author attribution) is reprinted without permission. I'd be very interested in follow-up comments. This has been posted to: Progressive Jewish Mailing List [PJML@utxvm] Holocaust List [HOLOCAUS@uicvm] My apologies to people on both lists who will receive this file twice. Laura Cohen lc0380@albnyvms.bitnet NEW YORK CITY - Denial of the Holocaust is the newest anti-Semitic lie. As witnesses to the Nazi genocide of the Jews die, and new generations are born, this canard has the potential to become a mainstay of 21st century anti-Semitism. A significant number of people are already open to the claim that the Holocaust never occurred, that Jews simply made it up. Holocaust denial is the focus of a recently released 193-page American Jewish Committee book entitled "Holocaust Denial," written by Kenneth Stern, AJC program specialist on anti-Semitism and extremism. In the book's four chapters, Stern not only exposes the promoters and supporters of Holocaust denial, but also looks at political and historical factors that help define long-term plans to combat it. Stern stresses that Holocaust denial, promoted by anti-Semitic and neo-Nazi groups such as the Institute for Historical Review and others, is a growth industry that must not be dismissed as the rantings of lunatics. Rather, it must be seen as the newest addendum to the lies that have historically fueled anti-Semitism, in line with the claims that the Jews poisoned wells, killed Christ, or are part of a worldwide conspiracy. Holocaust denial, Stern adds, is doubly troubling because it is presented not as crass Jew-hatred, but as reasonable sounding pseudo- science and pseudo-history frequently written by people with doctorates. Deniers, or "revisionists," as they cynically refer to themselves, distort the minutiae and details of the Holocaust, such as the workings of the gas chambers or the number of Jews killed or the Nuremberg trials or Hitler's intentions, to claim that there was no policy to exterminate Jews during World War II. A surprising number of people around the world are open to these bizarre, but made-to-appear-rational claims. Stern writes that deniers--whose claims have appeared in the classroom, on college campuses, in politics, in libraries, on computers, and in the media--must not be debated, as debate gives them the undeserved legitimacy they crave. Rather, he argues, their neo-Nazi agendas and historical distortions must be exposed. Historians and educational leadership, such as university presidents, have key roles to play in countering the deniers' handiwork, which frequently includes the offering of Holocaust-denying advertisements to student newspapers. Most people, however, will not learn of Holocaust denial in school or through denying literature; they will learn of it through the media. For radio and television--media that need spicy topics to drive up ratings-- Holocaust denial certainly generates heat. Deniers are prepared with a reservoir of facts, half-facts, quarter-facts, and outright lies to counter any talk-show host--for what talk show personality can spend the hours of research necessary to expose the deniers' reasonable sounding lies? Another problem is that the people that can appear on these programs to expose the deniers are left in a quandary: if they do not appear with them, the lies are unchallenged; and worse, if they do confront them, the deniers' credibility is enhanced and there becomes a "debate" between "opposing theories," which is exactly what they seek. In a political arena, Stern continues, two presidential candidates in 1992 espoused Holocaust denial, one (David Duke) fully, one (Patrick Buchanan) partly. "The troubling thing is that when Holocaust denial has appeared in national politics, it has been seen as quirkiness, not hatred...While no one from a major party has campaigned on a platform of Holocaust denial, the votes of millions of Americans say that this form of anti-Semitism is no big deal. If a candidate is attractive for other reasons, denial of a recent major historical tragedy involving Jews will be overlooked rather than seen as an irreparable character defect." In the book's second chapter, Stern looks at the patterns and purveyors of Holocaust denial around the world, including in Germany, Britain, France, Austria, Belgium, Sweden, Switzerland, Italy, Spain, Romania, Ukraine, former Yugoslavia, Poland, Slovakia, Russia, Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Venezuela, Mexico, Peru, South Africa, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Japan, and Arab nations. Stern stresses the growth of Holocaust denial in Europe, and especially Eastern Europe, in the aftermath of the fall of Communism. In many areas the Nazi puppet states were the last non-Communist governments, and are being rehabilitated. To make these states symbols of a reclaimed nationalism requires a rewriting of Nazism. And, Stern asserts, among the far-right anti-Semitic groups in Europe today, Holocaust denial is the "ideological glue." Hatred for Israel appears prominently in Holocaust denial literature, writes Stern. "Deniers integrally link Holocaust denial with anti-Israel propaganda, for if the Holocaust is a 'hoax,' as they suggest, then one of the justifications for a Jewish State is undermined. Holocaust denial not only attacks Jewish history, its inherent anti-Zionism also targets the Jewish present and the Jewish future." In the book's third chapter, Stern debunks the Holocaust deniers' claims by methodically exposing their scientific, factual, and historical distortions. In the final chapter, Stern analyzes the multi-faceted ways in which people and institutions can fight Holocaust denial in the long run, including through Holocaust education, speakers, memorials, museums, movies, articles, and books. "All are essential," he says, "but not sufficient." "We can, and we must, combat Holocaust denial as a falsehood, as hatred, and as a form of politics," Stern stresses. "If we want to be effective, rather than just feel righteous or 'correct,' we have to have a sophisticated strategy. Jews have to work with other groups, building common lessons from the human tragedy of genocide. We have to exert political power, demanding that our institutions develop effective means to combat intergroup hatred. We must demand that government create incentives for local institutions to fight bigotry on a day-in, day-out, unremarkable basis. Memory, or logic, or knowledge, or goodwill, by themselves, cannot conquer societal hate. Holocaust deniers count on that. "Holocaust denial is a problem with many dimensions," Stern concludes. "It is part anti-Semitism, part anti-history, part anti-authority, part anti-democracy. Like all forms of hatred, and all ideologies that promote or apologize for fascism, it must not be dismissed as either something 'silly' or as something to be combatted with platitudes or incantations of 'the truth.' It must be fought as hatred, as ignorance, and as ideology." ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1993 09:39:25 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: Judith Turner Subject: Where it starts I was in Los Angeles last week, and caught an early-morning ad on one of those gospel shows about a video-toon Life of Jesus. One thing caught my attention: They talked about and dramatized how Herod ordered all the Jewish boy babies killed, and how it was a miracle that Jesus was saved. And they claimed to be Biblically accurate. I'm no scholar of the New Testament, but I wonder if this isn't a) untrue, and b) a good grounding for future anti-Semites. Comments anyone? --Judith Turner ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1993 13:22:53 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: Simon Wiesenthal Center Library/Archives Subject: Re: H-Net Guide to Holocaust & Judaica Libraries Here is a revised listing for the Simon Wiesenthal Center Paul H. Hamburg Reference Librarian 7. LA. Simon Wiesenthal Center Library/Archives and Beit Hashoah ) Museum of Tolerance. 9760 West Pico Blvd. Los Angeles, CA 90035 Tel: (310) 553-9036; Fax: (310) 553)8659; E)mail: simonwie@class.org. AREAS OF INTEREST: Holocaust studies; anti-Semitism; Jewish history, identity, religion, heritage, philosophy, life, and law; racism and extremism; ethnic studies. HOLDINGS: Books, periodicals, artifacts, and momorabilia; photo, film and video collections; oral histories; victim and survivor documentation; media materials; access to the NEXIS computerized data base and the AP wire service. PUBLICATIONS: Response (quarterly magazine); Simon Wiesenthal Center annual (vols. 1)7); Simon Wiesenthal Monograph Series; Dignity and Defiance: The Confrontation of Life and Death in the Warsaw Ghetto; Publication list available on request; Page One (syndicated radio magazine). INFORMATION SERVICES: The Library/Archives answers inquiries or refers patrons to other sources of information; provides reference, literature-searching, and other bibliographical services; provides reproduction services for fee; conducts seminars; lends materials (with some limitations; nonmembers may leave a refundable deposit); permits onsite use of collections. . ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1993 14:23:07 -0500 Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: Jim Mott Subject: Announcing HNSERVER (fwd) From: Lynn Nelson ANNOUNCING HNSERVER HNServer is an information server located at telnet history.cc.ukans.edu login: history. Thse who prefer gopher access may reach HNServer through gopher TISL.ukans.edu HNServer is maintained by Academic Computer Services and the History Department of the University of Kansas and, under the auspices of the History Network, has been given the task of serving as the central information server for the international community of historians. An information server is an electronic installation that provides lists, called "menus", of other electronic sites, allows users to select those in which they are interested, and switches users automatically to the site selected. Such sites include library catalogues; data bases; full texts of books, articles, reviews, reference works, computer software, and other materials; graphic image collections; professional news; national and local weather reports; telephone and electronic address books; university news services; electronic journals; and much more. Users may retrieve electronically whatever material they wish from thse sites, free > of charge. HNServer currently has connections to over two hundred library catalogues worldwide; data bases in Kansas, Ohio, Minnesota, Mississipi, Missouri, Illinois, Washington DC, Australia, Canada, the Netherlands, and the United Nations, as well as connections to other information servers that provide the user with still more additional connections. Several Usenet usergroups of interest to historians are presently on-line and more are being added. Electronic journals include CLIONET (Australia), Colegios, EconHist, REACH, and the Bryn Mawr Classical Review, and the holding of GHETA, the Netherlands respository of historical journals. Johns Hopkins Press pre-publication articles are now available, as well as the US National Archives catalogue of available files and the Library of Congress Information Files. Cooperative plans are underway to establish connections between HNServer and the Institute of Historical Research of the University of London, Carlisle Barracks' Center for Military History, and planned national storage sites for historical data in Germany and Canada. The operators of HNServer are continuing to search for other useful sites, and historians in various parts of the world have been stimulated by the existence of a central server to begin to establish new sites in which to collect historical materials. Lynn Nelson LHNELSON@UKANVM lhnelson@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1993 08:44:23 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: "D. Andrew Kille" Subject: Re: Where it starts In-Reply-To: <9306041439.AA01830@mail.netcom.com>; from "Judith Turner" at Jun 4, 93 9:39 am > > I was in Los Angeles last week, and caught an > early-morning ad on one of those gospel shows > about a video-toon Life of Jesus. > > One thing caught my attention: They talked about > and dramatized how Herod ordered all the Jewish > boy babies killed, and how it was a miracle that > Jesus was saved. > > And they claimed to be Biblically accurate. > > I'm no scholar of the New Testament, but I wonder > if this isn't a) untrue, and b) a good grounding > for future anti-Semites. > > Comments anyone? > > --Judith Turner > A couple quick notes. First, the story of Herod's slaughter of the innocents _is_ in the book of Matthew (2:16-17). Secondly, in the book it is clear that it is Herod, and not the Jewish people who are the threat (after Herod's death, Jesus' family is safe to return from hiding out in Egypt). Thirdly, historians have found no evidence for any such slaughter (of all male children under the age of 2) in Bethlehem or anywhere else during Herod's reign. Fourthly, Herod was no prize- even if he didn't order the murder of a village's children, he _did_ manage to kill off most of his own family and anyone else who got in his way. The story, if not historically accurate, is within the bounds of Herod's known methods. Fifthly, there are other more troubling passages in the NT for grounding future anti-Semites. One would have already to be a sloppy and biased reader to extend Herod's guilt (historical or not) to the people who were the objects of his terror. -- ********************************* (The Rev.) D. Andrew Kille Graduate Theological Union, Berkeley, CA VOCATUS ATQUE NON VOCATUS, DEUS ADERIT. ******************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1993 08:45:28 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: Cecelia A Clancy Subject: Re: dominican republic In-Reply-To: On Thu, 3 Jun 1993, Seth L. Ness wrote: > hi, > does anybody have information about, or can give me reference to look for > about jewish refugees in the dominican republic during the holocaust. my > grandfather was one of them and i'd like to know more. thanks. > > > > Seth L. Ness Ness Gadol Hayah Sham > ness@aecom.yu.edu The first thing that pops into my mind is David Wyman's _Paper Walls_, which covers the 1930's, and which is * NOT * duplicated in his later work, _Abanndonment of the Jews_, which covers the 1940's. _Paper Walls_, even though I think it is more important and more groundbreaking than _Abandonment_, does not get as much "promoted". (To what extent is this explained by some people out there in the general public finding the 1940's "more exciting" and even "more titillating" than the 1930's in this regard - thereby causing the book trade to push it more in caterance to the public whim, however "unadmitable" that whim might be????) _Paper Walls_, unfortunately, has been so "ignored", that it is now out of print. But I DO think I remember seeing material about the Domenican Republic in _Paper Walls_. I will check to make sure and will post later of what exactly is in there. -- Cecelia muller+@pitt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1993 12:59:03 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: Cecelia A Clancy Subject: Re: (COPY) ORION BIBLIOGRAPHY In-Reply-To: On Thu, 3 Jun 1993, David Hirsch, Bibliographers Group wrote: > In response to Seth Ness' question, there are at least a couple of books about > the Jewish community in the Dominican Republic, which at its peak probably > numbered a little over a thousand. The two references below refer to a Jewish > agricultural colony in Sosua, Dominican Republic. A small community still > exists there, as well as in Santo Domingo. > Both of these items are held at UCLA and can be obtained via Interlibrary > Loan. Pero una de las referencias esta escrito en espan^ol und die andere ist auf Deutsch geschrieben! [But one of the references is in Spanish and the other is in German!] Can Seth read one or both of these languages? I can help you on either language, Seth, if you would like. I think the material in those books would be worth enough to you for you to not let language barriers stand in your way. > Hyman Kisch wrote a thesis entitled: The Jewish Settlement from Central > Europe in the Dominican Republic. Jewish Theological Seminary, 1970. > You may be able to obtain this from another source. Good luck. I can find out the sources from which Seth can obtain this. At very least, he could most likely purchace a microfilm of it from an establishment in Ann Arbor, Michigan which specializes in the microfilming and sale of theses. More later. -- Cecelia ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1993 13:01:38 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: Bea Cohen Subject: Shtetl help needed I hope someone on this discussion group can help me. My father's family came from Kulczyce Szlacheckie, Galicia Poland (now Kulchitsy, Ukraine). It was (is) a small shtetl just east of Sambor. The last time my father heard from his family was in 1939. The family surnames were LEITER and LEDER. I have been searching for reference material which would tell me what happened to the shtetl during the German/Russian/German occupation of WW II without any luck. Can anyone suggest any reference material that is available. Any help would be appreciated...... Bea Cohen ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1993 13:03:04 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: Cecelia A Clancy Subject: Sousa Settlement in the Dominican Republic In-Reply-To: Dear Seth, > David Hirsch wrote: > > Hyman Kisch wrote a thesis entitled: The Jewish Settlement from Central > Europe in the Dominican Republic. Jewish Theological Seminary, 1970. > > You may be able to obtain this from another source. Good luck. I could not find this in _Dissertation Abstracts_. Apparantly it is a Master's Theses (and therefore the esdtablishment in Ann Arbor probably does NOT have it). But try the Jewish Theological Seminary directly. The library (or the Department under which Kisch did his work) probably has a copy. There was a fire at the JTS library in 1966, so thank goodness this thesis was done AFTER that! Louis S. Brush Memorial Library Jewish Thoelogical Seminary 3080 Broadway New York, NY 10027 A general phone number for the JTS is (212) 749-8000 Good luck again, -- Cecelia. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1993 13:04:36 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: GINO_PESCE@cpsnet2.cps.edu Subject: Anti-semitism As a practicing Christian, I would like to comment on your fear that Herod's edict is a breeding ground for anti- semitism. Yes the New Testament does relate the story of Herod and Jesus' escape from his death call. I have never been taught or in any way, shape or form been influenced in my church or any other TRUE christian setting to be anti-semitic. In fact as I study the Old Testament and the life of Jesus I can relate to the Jewish nation because of their historical significance as related to our Messiah. While Christ wasn't a legalistic Jew, He was very much a Jew and loved His people. Any Christian who teaches anti-semitism, using the Bible as a tool is NOT A CHRISTIAN. I hope the love of Christ is what we can express to all of our brothers and sisters on this planet. After all Jesus died for ALL men and women. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1993 13:05:53 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: Dov Winer Subject: Re: Jewish Underground in Poland In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 3 Jun 1993 22:44:27 CDT from <21409MGR@msu.edu> Shalom, Sorry but I have no information to give you. If you are working in this area would you possibly recommend a good history of the Bund ? In the last Yom HaShoah here in Israel an argument was made that there is no such book (only the victorious sections of the Jewish movements have a good historiography - that was the argument). Best regards, Dov Dov Winer Ben Gurion University Internet : viner at bguvm.bgu.ac.il ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1993 13:29:15 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: "Michel Eytan, LILoL" Subject: Re: Where it starts At 9:39 4/06/93 -0500, Judith Turner wrote: > I was in Los Angeles last week, and caught an > early-morning ad on one of those gospel shows > about a video-toon Life of Jesus. > > One thing caught my attention: They talked about > and dramatized how Herod ordered all the Jewish > boy babies killed, and how it was a miracle that > Jesus was saved. > > And they claimed to be Biblically accurate. > > I'm no scholar of the New Testament, but I wonder > if this isn't a) untrue, and b) a good grounding > for future anti-Semites. > > Comments anyone? > > --Judith Turner Judith, anti-semites don't need no good grounding, moreover the Romans were 1st class anti-semites before even Jesus was born -- which is not meant to disculpate the Church. Dunno if this is the right place, but ever since as an 8-year old child I experienced the Shoa I keep wondering Why??? ~=michel ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1993 13:30:38 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List Comments: Warning -- original Sender: tag was HOLOCAUS@UICVM From: "D. Andrew Kille" Subject: Re: Where it starts In-Reply-To: <9306041439.AA01830@mail.netcom.com>; from "Judith Turner" at Jun 4, 93 9:39 am > I was in Los Angeles last week, and caught an > early-morning ad on one of those gospel shows > about a video-toon Life of Jesus. > > One thing caught my attention: They talked about > and dramatized how Herod ordered all the Jewish > boy babies killed, and how it was a miracle that > Jesus was saved. > > And they claimed to be Biblically accurate. > > I'm no scholar of the New Testament, but I wonder > if this isn't a) untrue, and b) a good grounding > for future anti-Semites. > > Comments anyone? > > --Judith Turner > A couple quick notes. First, the story of Herod's slaughter of the innocents _is_ in the book of Matthew (2:16-17). Secondly, in the book it is clear that it is Herod, and not the Jewish people who are the threat (after Herod's death, Jesus' family is safe to return from hiding out in Egypt). Thirdly, historians have found no evidence for any such slaughter (of all male children under the age of 2) in Bethlehem or anywhere else during Herod's reign. Fourthly, Herod was no prize- even if he didn't order the murder of a village's children, he _did_ manage to kill off most of his own family and anyone else who got in his way. The story, if not historically accurate, is within the bounds of Herod's known methods. Fifthly, there are other more troubling passages in the NT for grounding future anti-Semites. One would have already to be a sloppy and biased reader to extend Herod's guilt (historical or not) to the people who were the objects of his terror. -- ********************************* (The Rev.) D. Andrew Kille Graduate Theological Union, Berkeley, CA VOCATUS ATQUE NON VOCATUS, DEUS ADERIT. ******************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1993 12:50:27 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: HANFTS@conrad.appstate.edu Subject: Re: Jewish Underground in Poland Dov: My work in ewish history is very parochial and focused on ews in the American Southeast. I have taught several undergraduate courses on the Holocaust, the that provided the basis for my earlier remarks, but the topic is ust one that interests me as a Jew and i have no special expertese on it. I will reviees the various bibliographies, journals and periodicals I used to prepared for the course. Shoud I find any reference to a History or analysis of the Bund, I'll e-mail it to you. The only thing that comes to mind in a reference in Steiner's book TRIBLENKA, a "docu-fiction" which list a few hundred books, are a few personal accounts but nothing systematic. As I said, if I find anything I'll send it to you. Warmest regards, Sheldon Hanft (Hanfts@Appstate.edu) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1993 12:51:29 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: RUEDNBRG@NYUACF.BITNET Subject: Re: Shtetl help needed Date sent: 7-JUN-1993 To Bea Cohen: I would reply privately but I can't figure out your address from your posting. The American Gathering of Jewish Holocaust survivors has a National Registry database of survivors in North America. It can be searched by last name, town before the war, place during the war. If you write to them, asking if there are survivors from the town you are interested in, and enclosing a letter to those individuals explaining your interest, they will forward your letters, within reason. You can write to: American Gathering 122 West 30th St. Room 205 New York, NY 10001 The National Registry was recently donated to the US Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington DC, so if you are there, you can also look at it yourself. Addresses however are not public information. Lucia =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Lucia Ruedenberg New York University Dep of Performance Studies Email: ruednbrg@ACFcluster.NYU.EDU =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1993 12:52:52 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: Jeffrey A Shandler Subject: Re: Shtetl help needed In-Reply-To: Your message of Mon, 7 Jun 1993 13:01:38 CDT Contact the YIVO Institute, 1048 Fifth Avenue, NY NY 10028. (212) 535-6700. Ask for Zachary Baker, Head Librarian, or someone in the archives. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1993 12:57:16 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: "Seth L. Ness" Subject: dominican republic In-Reply-To: <199306072021.AA03902@alsys1.aecom.yu.edu> i think i can easily get the thesis from JTS since i'm pretty close to it and my sister goes to columbia now, and i'm an alumnus. i think i'll check out all the english references before i try the spanish and german. thanks. Seth L. Ness Ness Gadol Hayah Sham ness@aecom.yu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1993 13:46:25 CDT Reply-To: silversa@bcvms.bc.edu Sender: Holocaust List From: Sam Silverman Subject: Re: Shtetl help needed You might try looking at the Yizkor book for Sambor. The bibliography in "From a ruined garden", Jack Kugelmass and Jonathan Boyarin, Schocken Books, 1983, does not list a Yizkor book for your father's town, but does list one for Sambor. It has sections in Hebrew, Yiddish and English, and was published in 1980. You might be able to get an address for some of the committee who published it,or perhaps for the Landsmanschaft, and they might have more information on your father's town. Yizkor books are available in several libraries. I use Brandeis, which claims to have about 80% of those available. A more up to date listing of Yizkor books can be found in "Genealogical resources in the New York metropolitan area", edited by Estelle Guzik, published by the Jewish Genealogical Society, P.O. Box 6398, New York, NY 10128, 1989. Sam Silverman SILVERSA@BCVMS.BITNET ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1993 13:49:18 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: Louis de Groot Subject: H-Net Guide to Holocaust & Judiaca Libraries Subject: Re: H-Net Guide to Holocaust & Judaica Libraries To: Multiple recipients of list HOLOCAUS Here is a listing for the Holocaust Center of Northern California Mrs. Barbara Harris Goodman, Executive Director Mr. Barney Cohen, Archivist Dr. Jacob Boas, Associate Director Ms. Simone Schweber, Secondary Education Coordinator The Holocaust Center of Northern California mailing address: 639 14th Avenue, San Francisco, CA 94118 located at: 601 14th Avenue, San Francisco, CA 94118 Tel: (415) 751-6040; Fax: (415) 751-6735 Telephone Secondary Education Coordinator (415) 751-6041 E-mail:holo@kg6kf.ampr.org Hours of Operation: S, M, W, 10 AM - 4 PM Pacific Time Tu, Th, 12 PM - 8 PM Pacific Time PURPOSE: The Holocaust Center of Northern California (HCNC) is dedicated to the preservation of a past that must not be forgotten. The HCNC' s fundamental position is that the facts must be known and must be remembered. The HCN C focuses on research and education, in fulfillment of the testament left by the m artyrs of the Holocaust to its survivors - to remember, to record, to understand, to explai n, and to enlighten future generations. AREAS OF INTEREST: Holocaust studies; anti-Semitism; Racism and extremism; ethnic studies; Holocaust education; Teacher training for te aching the Holocaust, High School Assembly programs. HOLDINGS: Books, periodicals, artifacts; photo, film and vid eo collections; oral histories audio as well as video; victim and survivor docume ntation; media materials. PUBLICATIONS: Yiskor books of the East European communities of Kobrin and Kosow-Lacki; "The Holocaust and World War II", a 102 page, i llustrated overview of Holocaust history intended as a textbook for tea chers. "Kristalnacht: The Night of Shattered Glass", a 19 page book let ont the 1938 pogrom which signaled the beginning of the Nazi's plan to destroy the European Jewish community. A film and video catalog espe cially aimed at classroom showings, and a children and adult bibliography to assist teachers in selecting recommended readings. INFORMATION SERVICES: The Library does not lend materials bu t answers inquiries or refers patrons to other sources of information. Within the limitations of its staff it provides reference, literature-s earching, and other bibliographical services; provides reproduction servic es for fee; conducts seminars and book discussions; encourages onsite use of coll ections. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1993 13:50:49 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: "Sam Edelman, Ph.D." Subject: Re: Jewish Underground in Poland To the person interested in the Jewish underground in Poland--please send me a personal note and I shall try to share some sources with you. sedelman@oavax.csuchico.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1993 13:51:45 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: Daniel F Boyd Subject: Anti-semitism In-Reply-To: <9306071807.AA17220@electra.cs.buffalo.edu> GINO_PESCE@cpsnet2.cps.edu writes: > Any Christian who teaches anti-semitism, using the Bible as a tool > is NOT A CHRISTIAN. Aha, the "Not A True Christian" argument. Sorry, won't wash. Christian antisemites still look, sound, and talk like Christians. So they're still Christians. Sure, you may say they're BAD Christians -- and I would agree with you -- but doing something bad doesn't make them non-Christian (and therefore allow fellow Christians to disclaim the actions of others of their religion). Daniel F. Boyd -- boyd@cs.buffalo.edu Department of Computer Science 226 Bell Hall Office: Trailer A (716) 645-3774 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1993 13:53:22 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: BERMAN E-MAIL Subject: RE: Anti-semitism To the "practicing Christian" (Sorry, you didn't leave a name), I believe that you are not an anti-semite, as I believe that my Christian friends are not anti-semites. However one cannot deny that many christians have accused the Jews of Killing Christ. My mother once ran home crying because a friend had told her that her (her friend's) father had told her that my mother's father had killed Jesus. It is no secret that over the centuries, many priests and ministers have preached this very accusation. If tjis is not anti-semitism with a biblical reference, I don't know what is. By the same token, I was in Nei]w York one Shabbes morning and attended a service at a synagogue. The rabbi, in his sermon, said that "if you scratch any gentile you find an anti-semite". I took great exception to this use of the "pulpit" to spread cultural intolerance, and I DID confront the rabbi after the service. I cannot imagine all my non- jewish friends as closet racists. HAL BERMAN ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1993 13:54:35 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: BERMAN E-MAIL Subject: Re: Jewish Underground in Poland To find a good history of the BUND, try the Workmen's Circle in New York. I think they'll have a lot of references for you, but the best I've seen are in Yiddish, so it would help to know it. H.B. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1993 13:56:00 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: FISHMAN@SNYFARVA.BITNET Subject: Re: Shtetl help needed Bea, The information you seek may be found in a guide called _The Stetl Reader_ (or something close to that). The Genealogy bb on Prodigy has a wealth of information on family names, geography, etc. If you don't have access to this service, let me know and I'll post the query for you. *************** Charles Fishman ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1993 13:57:12 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: FISHMAN@SNYFARVA.BITNET Subject: Announcement Dear colleagues, I am currently at work on an anthology of poetry entitled _Flames Ascending: World Poets on the Holocaust_, which is intended to be a sequel to _Blood to Remember: American Poets on the Holocaust_ (Texas Tech University Press, 1991). I would appreciate any and all of the following: a) suggestions regarding important poets who should be represented in this book b) information about existing translations of pertinent work by world-class poets c) names, addresses and/or phone numbers of translators who might be interested in working with me to bring currently untranslated material into English d) advice or questions appropriate to this project Although I have already compiled a great deal of material, I remain open to comments and welcome suggestions. Those who wish to assist me in this work should say so: full credit will be given when the book is published. I can be reached at this list by return post or at any of the following: Charles Fishman Dept of English & Humanities SUNY Farmingdale Farmingdale, NY 11735 (516) 420-2031 (voice) (516) 420-2051 (fax) Fishman@snyfarva ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1993 13:59:56 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: ez002658%bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu@ucdavis.BITNET Subject: Scandinavia and the Jews I would like to locate archives in Denmark that contain information on the Jewish experience in Denmark. I will be traveling to Denmark this fall to conduct dissertation research. I would appreciate any help you can forward to me. Thanks in advance for your help. Myrna Goodman University of California, Davis ez002658@bullwinkle.ucd.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1993 11:59:39 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: Simon Wiesenthal Center Library/Archives Subject: Re: Shtetl help needed Where Once We Walked has an entry for Kulczyce Szlacheckie - see Kulchitsy: UKr pop. 67; 62 km SW of Lvov; 49'30"/23'17". Unfortunately they do not give any further references. The best referebnce source is in Hebrew - Pinkas Hakehillot. There are undoubtedly desscriptions there of what happened in nearby (larger) towns. I hope this helps. Paul Hamburg Reference Librarian Simon Wiesenthal Center ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1993 12:01:36 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: "Michel Eytan, LILoL" Subject: RE: Anti-semitism At 13:53 8/06/93 -0500, BERMAN E-MAIL wrote: [deleted] > By the same token, I was in Nei]w York one Shabbes morning and >attended a service at a synagogue. The rabbi, in his sermon, said that >"if you scratch any gentile you find an anti-semite". I took great >exception to this use of the "pulpit" to spread cultural intolerance, and >I DID confront the rabbi after the service. I cannot imagine all my non- >jewish friends as closet racists. > >HAL BERMAN Hal, I don't want to start mud-throwing. However, as a survivor of the Shoah and later as a kid on the streets in various European countries, I am afraid I must concur with your Rabbi in 90% of the cases... Even later, as an adult, I have had personally some very queer (and saddening) experiences with *close* christian "friends" who were mebbe(?) not even conscious of the enormity of what they said. And things are getting regularly worse here nowadays with old bitch Europe who has 'rien appris ni rien oublie'. ~=michel ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1993 09:42:48 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: MCLEODJ@sask.usask.ca Subject: Re: Flames Ascending Dear Charles, For translations from German, Russian or Czech into English, you may contact Dagmar Lieblova, Ph.D. A survivor herself, she works as a translator for the Terezin Initiative and the Kafka Society in Prague. She may be reached by FAX: 011-42-2-251031, phone: 011-42-2-353-6875, or you may write to her at Na Petrinach 78, 16200 Praha 6, Czech Republic. For your information, I have recently completed, together with Judith Berman and Rose Engel from Los Angeles, a translation of the children's opera Brundibar by Hans Krasa from Czech into English. Rita McLeod ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1993 09:43:54 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: BERMAN E-MAIL Subject: RE: Anti-semitism Dear Michel, I don't want to get into a great argument with you here, but to say that 90% of gentiles are open or closet anti-semites is preposterous! That would mean that at least 50% of my closer friends are anti-semites! We can't fight racism by slandering others. The 90% statement can only upset people who otherwise think of themselves as non-racists. Of course, it is OK to criticise jews, or parts of judaism, or Israel without being an anti-semite. Often non-jews who somehow object to the killing of palestinian children are labelled anti-semites, while jews who do so are "self-hating". I have news for you. Neither is correct. Jews (as we so often forget) are not perfect! We can do bad things as well as the next person, and should be criticized. Even if we show evidence to exonerate ourselves the exercise is a good one. No, I can't accept that half of my friends are jew-haters or racists. I know them too well. Some of them respect judaism more than some jews I know. A blanket statement like 90% is racist in itself and should not be tolerated. HAL BERMAN ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1993 09:47:12 CDT Reply-To: Doug Kaufman Sender: Holocaust List From: Doug Kaufman Subject: HOLOCAUS List Digests >From the moderator: HOLOCAUS will be available at a future date in digest form. Unfortunately, we are still running a version of Listserv which does not support digests. We will be upgrading soon. ====================== Have you considered making HOLOCAUS available in digest form? With the number of messages, this would make reading the list more convenient. I presume that the LISTSERVER has been upgraded to the new version, which permits digests. -- Doug Kaufman INTERNET: bn900@cleveland.freenet.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1993 09:57:02 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: RICHARD JENSEN Subject: JewStudies #1 of new ejournal * * * * J E W S T U D I E S * * * * * an e-journal of on-going work in * * J e w i s h S t u d i e s * * Issue 1.002 June 1993 _______________________________ Index: Abstract: Jewish Literature/Philip & Mary Sidney's Psalm Translations Economics and Galician Jews Socialist/Communist/Labour Zionist organizations Short Notes: Agnon/Yehoshua/Oz Hellenistic-Byzantine archaeology Psalm 19 Announcements The Last Jews of Cochin Youngstown Free-Net Jewish Studies in Canada - conference Teddy Kollek Editorial The name JewStudies - an open discussion Printing and Posting the journal ======== Abstracts ==================== Ted Steinberg (STEINBER@FREDONIA.BITNET) writes: "I teach in the English Department at SUNY Fredonia, a well-known center of Judaic studies. My alleged areas of expertise are medieval and Renaissance literature (including Judaic material), but I have also done work in Yiddish literature (a book on Mendele Mocher Seforim, for example). I have just finished some work on Philip and Mary Sidney's sixteenth-seventeenth-century Psalm translations, trying to show that Mary, at least, must have known some Hebrew in order to translate so accurately. I'm also preparing for an experimental course in the fall on Black and Jewish Literature, and I'd be happy to hear from anyone who might want to make suggestions." --------- Slawomir Tokarski (TOKARSKI@BF.iue.it) writes: "I am a third year Ph. D. candidate at European University Institute in Florence. My subject is the economics of the Jewish group in Galicia, in the years 1869-1914. The theoretical background is furnished by the middleman minority concept along with assumptions on the validity of the economic background of the ethnic conflict. I hope to show links between two phenomena: 1)emancipation of the Jews in Austria and the influx of the Galician Jewry into the rural economy sector (credit and trade market) and 2) emancipation of the Galician peasantry via the development of the network of rural organizations. I will attempt to prove that the axis of ethnic conflict in Galicia revolved around these two processes and to investigate its consequences for the Galicia." -------- Mark Flumerfelt (MARKF@VM1.YorkU.CA) writes: "Hi! My name is Mark Flumerfelt and I am in my first year of a PHD program in history at York University in Toronto. My interests are 19th and 20th century Jewish history in Canada. Specifically, I hope to examine the development of the various socialist/communist/labour Zionist organizations in Toronto and Montreal. I am presently still doing coursework, and next year I have to prepare for my comprehensives, so I don't imagine that I will get to my dissertation for another year and a half. During that time I hope to acquire a working knowledge of Yiddish and become acquainted with the appropriate sources. If anyone shares an interest in this subject, please drop me a line. PS - Thanks Avi for putting all this work into Jewstudies. Your effort is appreciated. MF ============ Short Notes ===================== CA Franke (cafranke@alex.stkate.edu) writes: "I have recently become enamored of Agnon, been fond of A.B. Yehoshua's and Amos Oz's writings, so look forward to more on these as part of this network. CAFranke, College of St. Catherine, St. Paul MN" ------- Thomas R. W. Longstaff (t_longst@COLBY.EDU) writes: "I am a Professor (and department chair) of Religious Studies at Colby College in Waterville, Maine. I teach in the area of biblical studies and Judaism (ancient and modern). My major research for the last 15-20 years has been in the area of Hellenistic- Byzantine archaeology in Israel. I have excavated at a number of sites in the Galilee (most recently for ten years as an Associate Director of the Excavations at Sepphoris) and also in the Negev (at Nitzana)." ------- ALAN COOPER (ACOOPER@UCBEH.SAN.UC.EDU) writes: "I am currently working on medieval Jewish interpretation of Psalm 19, and would welcome advice concerning relevant out-of-the-way sources and secondary literature. Alan Cooper, Hebrew Union College" ============= Announcements =============== Nathan Katz (NKATZ@CFRVM.BITNET) writes: "Hello, you may be interested in this recently-published book: Nathan Katz and Ellen S. Goldberg, THE LAST JEWS OF COCHIN: JEWISH IDENTITY IN HINDU INDIA, University of South Carolina Press, 1993, $39.95. " editor's note: if anyone is interested in more information about this book, please send along a note to Nathan Katz at the University of South Florida asking him to send a more detailed post to JewStudies. ------- Marlene Miller (xx105@yfn.ysu.edu) writes: "My name is Marlene Miller. I'm the SysOp of the Judaism SIG on Youngstown Free-Net, and was wondering if you would allow me to post the JEWSTUDIES mail I receive in my mailbox, to the YFN Judaism SIG. If you'd like, you may telnet to yfn.ysu.edu and log on as Visitor. At the prompt you enter the Judaism SIG (Special Interest Group). There, you can choose the bulletin board (or any other listed board) and look at what I do there. If you like what you see. Perhaps you would give me permission to post your list there, as well. ------ The Canadian Jewish Historical Society, the national association for Jewish Studies in Canada, will be holding its annual meeting June 7-9 at Carleton University in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada as part of the annual Learned Societies Conference. Space is still available, so make every effort to attend. ------- For those who haven't seen it yet, Jerusalem's Mayor is now on-line through e-mail. His address is: kollek@jerusalem1.datasrv.co.il ==========Editorial================== Bob Werman (RWERMAN@HUJIVMS.BITNET) writes: "Pardon me for suggesting that "JewStudies" sounds like "Jew boy" and similar pejoratives." Editorial Note: Interesting you say that, since I had originally requested the name to be JewishStudies, but apparently it was too long... I think I have rationalized the name by saying that by (re-) appropriating a pejorative term, it is empowering, much like the gay-rights movement has done with the terms "queer" or "dyke". HOWEVER - I would be interested in hearing what other people may think about this issue. ------- I would ask all of you to print out this issue and post on a bulletin board in an appropriate area of your home institution. By doing this, you will help disseminate our electronic journal. Current circulation = 180 ============end==================== Jewstudies@nysernet.org ajhyman = moderator ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1993 09:58:28 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: RICHARD JENSEN Subject: Southern Jewish Historical Society The Southern Jewish Historical Society is looking for members. Professional historians & graduate students interested in the history of Jews in the US South are invited to join the mailing list for the SJHS newsletter and annual meeting information. use snailmail to write: Lee Shai Weissbach dept of History U of Louisville Louisville KY 40292 (502) 588-6817 tell them HOLOCAUS sent you. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1993 10:00:32 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: Jeffrey A Shandler Subject: Passover in camps I am looking for documentary information about celebrations of Passover in Concentration Camps or Death Camps--particularly in Belsen in 1944.. Many thanks, Jeffrey Shandler jas42@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1993 10:08:39 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: Bruce White 3807 Subject: Re: Where it starts In-Reply-To: <9306071705.aa07674@ncrcom.DaytonOH.NCR.COM>; from "D. Andrew Kille" at Jun 7, 93 1:30 pm > A couple quick notes. First, the story of Herod's slaughter of the > innocents _is_ in the book of Matthew (2:16-17). [analysis deleted] > Fifthly, there are other more troubling passages in the NT for > grounding future anti-Semites. Coincidentally I happened to read this section of Matthew last week while I was on vacation. Which passages in the NT do you consider particularly troubling? Bruce ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1993 10:09:39 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: Bruce White 3807 Subject: Re: Where it starts In-Reply-To: <9306071704.aa07623@ncrcom.DaytonOH.NCR.COM>; from "Michel Eytan, LILoL" at Jun 7, 93 1:29 pm > Dunno if this is the right place, but ever since as an 8-year old child I > experienced the Shoa I keep wondering Why??? > > ~=michel > I was browsing through the stacks at the UCSD main library a few months ago and glanced through a title or two which dealt with the question "where was God during the Holocaust". I'd like to open up the discussion to this area (if that's OK with the list manager). Bruce ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1993 14:45:34 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: FISHMAN@SNYFARVA.BITNET Subject: Re: Flames Ascending Rita, Thanks so much for the information about Dagmar Lieblova. In regard to "Brundibar," do you feel that I should consider this work--in whole or part--for inclusion in _Flames Ascending_? I appreciate your getting in touch. --Charles Fishman\\\ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1993 14:46:58 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: FISHMAN@SNYFARVA.BITNET Subject: Re: JewStudies #1 of new ejournal I agree with Bob Werman regarding the mis-named JewStudies. Too long? Make the name Jewish.Studies@nysernet.org. I find the use of the perjorative insulting, not empowering. **************** Charles Fishman ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1993 14:49:48 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: MarcM@LETTSCI.SSCNET.UCLA.EDU Subject: Bob Werman's objection to "Jewstudies" RE: Bob Werman's editorial comment that "Jewstudies" sounds too much like the perjorative "Jewboy". I would suggest that Bob is internalizing (pardon my psycholingualism) the anti-semitic epithet of "Jew". I have known Jews who experience a cringe when using the singular form of Jew, often going out of their way to say "He's Jewish" rather than "He's a Jew." I posit that the latter is less anti-semitic, the former literally meaning "like a Jew", and if my hunch is correct, I would think that the word "Jewish" has its root in medieval derogatory language describing negative stereotypes of those who were identified as Jews. Are there any etymologists out there who might shed some light on this? --Marc Mayerson marcm@lettsci.sscnet.ucla.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1993 14:51:03 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: Marilyn Engel Subject: title of new ejournal Richard, How about JHstudies for the title? You thereby have the first and last letters of Jewish and retain the word studies. Would that fit. Good luck. Marilyn Kopelowitz Engel mkengel@gn.ecn.purdue.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1993 16:32:53 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: Jeff Finger Subject: JEWSTUDIES Title is Good In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 10 Jun 93 14:51:03 CDT." <9306101959.AA05094@mail-relay-1.mv.us.adobe.com> I also thought about JEWSTUDIES when I first saw it, and came to the conclusion that it is, in fact, good. The potential problem lies in using "Jew" as an adjective rather than a noun, that is, in the classic pejorative manner such "Jew Boy" or "Jew Newspaper". Well, tough nuggies. This is a logical and convenient abbreviation that we should not HAVE TO avoid. If the Jew-haters out there, may their names and memories be erased, cause us to have to avoid using something that would be convenient and logical to us, we have lost, not them. So, I think "JEWSTUDIES" is just fine. Yimakh shemam ve'zikhram. -- Itzhak "Jeff" Finger -- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1993 16:35:13 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: Judith Turner Subject: Re: title of new ejournal "Jew" is a noun. "Jewish" is an adjective. Think of the difference between America History and American History Is this to be a journal about Jews, or a journal about things Jewish? One convention that's become pretty much accepted in journal publishing is the acronym. Think of NEJM, or the electronic CCT. How about E/JJS for the Electronic Journal of Jewish Studies? Remember, a journal title has to sound serious and academic if you hope to get serious academics to submit papers to it. That's why there is no Journal of Rad Stuff (or whatever the latest hip jargon is). Of course, if your intention is to put together a journal designed to be titillating and shocking, you are doing just fine. --Judith Turner ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1993 16:37:00 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: HANFTS@conrad.appstate.edu Subject: Re: Southern Jewish Historical Society Lee Sai: Can I join the SJHS? Sheldon Hanft @ APPSTATE.edu PS. I'm glad you've posted on the Holocaustn & other nets. Thanks ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1993 16:41:33 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: "Sam Edelman, Ph.D." Subject: Re: JewStudies #1 of new ejournal I also agree with Bob Werman's perspective on "JewStudies". I do not feel that I am internalizing anything. The connotations are far too old and significant to be dismissed. I would support the name Jewish.Studies suggested earlier. Sam Edelman ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1993 16:43:43 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: Larry Davis Subject: Re: Bob Werman's objection to "Jewstudies" The question of the negative connotations of JEW caused me to look at a number of sources and I'll try to summarize them here. First--there seems to have been a movement, mainly by American Jews, some decades ago to eliminate the term JEW as an adjective, so we got the Young Men's HEBREW Association, HEBREW [rather than Jewish] commedians, and so on. McDavid's 1961 edition of Mencken's THE AMERICAN LANGUAGE notes that "if Chicago is representative, of American KULTUR, Conservative, Traditional, and even Orthodox Jews assemble oftener in HEBREW rather than JEWISH congregations" (p. 376). JEW as a term certainly carries opprobrium in American English. A 1936 version of Roget's THESAURUS even listed JEW as a synonym for LENDER. TO JEW 'to cheat' goes back to at least 1845 (Oxford English Dict.). Not surprisingly the Medieval references to JEW (frequenly spelled Iu or Gyw) are almost always unflattering, since JEW is generally opposed to CHRISTIAN. And Shakespeare's Shylock is, we remember, a Jew and not Jewish. American dictionaries handle JEW rather interestingly. The Merriam Webster Third New International notes that TO JEW and TO JEW DOWN are "usually taken to be offensive." WEBSTER'S NINTH NEW COLLEGIATE DICTIONARY (based on the above) and The AMERICAN HERITAGE DICTIONARY (2nd.ed.) do not list these verbs at all (as if not listing them will make them go away, I wonder?). It seems clear enough that JEW as a noun seems to fare better than JEW as either a verb or an adjective. I was born a Jew (or Jewish), but clearly was raised JEWISH. My parents were JEWS/JEWISH. In short, then, JewNet has its problems because of the adjectival use of JEW. Personally, however, I like the term since it has a nice, stark quality to it. Summers are a wonderful time to worry about things like this! Larry Davis Wichita State University ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1993 16:45:59 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: Simon Wiesenthal Center Library/Archives Subject: Re: Scandinavia and the Jews The World Jewish Directory lists the folloing Jewish libraries in Copenhagen: Jewish Library Ny Kongensgade 6 1472 COPENHAGEN K Hillel Ron - Librarian Royal Library Bibliotheca Judaica Simonseniana 8 Christians Brygge COPENHAGEN Paul H. HAmburg Reference Librarian Simon Wiesenthal Center ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1993 09:38:51 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: "D. Andrew Kille" Subject: Re: Where it starts In-Reply-To: <9306101509.AA04037@mail.netcom.com>; from "Bruce White 3807" at Jun 10, 93 10:08 am > > > A couple quick notes. First, the story of Herod's slaughter of the > > innocents _is_ in the book of Matthew (2:16-17). > > [analysis deleted] > > > Fifthly, there are other more troubling passages in the NT for > > grounding future anti-Semites. > > Coincidentally I happened to read this section of Matthew last week while I wa s > on vacation. Which passages in the NT do you consider particularly troubling? > > Bruce > Just quickly, the gospel of John in general and his depiction of the crucifixion in particular. John is fond of simply lumping "the Jews" together as the bad guys, and modern christian readers who do not have the historical or critical background tend to form anti-semitic attitudes from a simplistic reading of the text. -- ********************************* (The Rev.) D. Andrew Kille Graduate Theological Union, Berkeley, CA VOCATUS ATQUE NON VOCATUS, DEUS ADERIT. ******************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1993 09:40:02 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: MCLEODJ@sask.usask.ca Subject: Re: Flames Ascending Charles, I am not sure what exactly are your criteria for inclusion in the anthology. The Brundibar was composed by Hans (Hanus) Krasa in the late 30s. At that time he lived in Prague and collaborated with Adolf Hoffmeister on the libretto. As Judith Berman writes in her introduction to our recent translation: "Little did he know that 50 or so performances would be given by children passing through Terezin. Before he was shipped to Auschwitz where he perished, he trained hundreds of children to sing the parts. Each part had to be learned by many children as no one knew who would live long enough for the next performance..." If you consider an opera libretto worthy, I am sure that Judith and Rose would be as pleased as I would if you included it. We consider our translation as a dedication to the thousands of children who lived in the Terzin Ghetto. For me the translation was a particularly important venture, as my mother is one of these children. Regards Rita ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1993 09:59:00 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: eytan@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr Subject: RE: Anti-semitism >Dear Michel, > > I don't want to get into a great argument with you here, but to >say that 90% of gentiles are open or closet anti-semites is preposterous! >That would mean that at least 50% of my closer friends are anti-semites! >We can't fight racism by slandering others. The 90% statement can >only upset people who otherwise think of themselves as non-racists. > > Of course, it is OK to criticise jews, or parts of judaism, or >Israel without being an anti-semite. Often non-jews who somehow object >to the killing of palestinian children are labelled anti-semites, while >jews who do so are "self-hating". I have news for you. Neither is correct. >Jews (as we so often forget) are not perfect! We can do bad things as well >as the next person, and should be criticized. Even if we show evidence to >exonerate ourselves the exercise is a good one. > > No, I can't accept that half of my friends are jew-haters or racists. >I know them too well. Some of them respect judaism more than some jews I know. >A blanket statement like 90% is racist in itself and should not be tolerated. > > >HAL BERMAN dear mr. berman, i shall not enter into an argument and do not wish to get into considerations about palestinians -- that have nothing whatever to do in a discussion about *my* experiences with non-jews. you are lucky with your friends, i ain't with mine. to put a final touch: i was merely recounting personal experiences. as for being racist myself, have it as you want it; but then the sheep may be said to be an anti-wolf racist. moreover this is yet another well-known anti-semites' argument. ~=michel eytan ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1993 10:01:34 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: eytan@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr Subject: Re: French? >> And things are getting regularly worse here nowadays with old bitch >> Europe who has 'rien appris ni rien oublie'. > >I don't speak French -- what does this mean? > >Thanks! > > >Daniel F. Boyd -- boyd@cs.buffalo.edu >Department of Computer Science >226 Bell Hall >Office: Trailer A (716) 645-3774 Fellow netters, I have gotten several messages about this, so I am posting to the whole list -- sorry for those who are not in need of translation. And I beg your pardon for being too cryptic in the first instance. This was a famous phrase (about the Emigres after the French Revolution) -- by Talleyrand? don't remember any more -- who had 'learnt nothing and forgotten nothing' when they came back from the Holy German Empire to restore Louis XVIII as King of France. My allusion was to the fact that we see, here in Europe, a very clear-cut resurgence of the '30s mentality regarding Jews (in particular anti-semitism), as if nothing had happened since then -- which they have the `Hutspah to declare to be the case, since there has purportedly been no shoah... -- Michel Eytan, Lab Info, Log & Lang eytan@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr Dpt Info, U Strasbourg II V: +33 88 41 74 29 22 rue Descartes, 67084 Strasbourg FR F: +33 88 41 74 40 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1993 10:15:03 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: "Michel Eytan, LILoL" Subject: Re: JEWSTUDIES Title is Good >I also thought about JEWSTUDIES when I first saw it, and came to the >conclusion that it is, in fact, good. > >The potential problem lies in using "Jew" as an adjective rather than a >noun, that is, in the classic pejorative manner such "Jew Boy" or "Jew >Newspaper". > >Well, tough nuggies. This is a logical and convenient abbreviation that >we should not HAVE TO avoid. If the Jew-haters out there, may their >names and memories be erased, cause us to have to avoid using something >that would be convenient and logical to us, we have lost, not them. > >So, I think "JEWSTUDIES" is just fine. Yimakh shemam ve'zikhram. > >-- Itzhak "Jeff" Finger -- Yits`hak, originally I had some doubts, but your posting made me change my mind: this is the right attitude to Jew-haters, overt or covert. Z:khor eth she`asah l:kha `amalek! ~=michel ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1993 10:17:15 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: "Michel Eytan, LILoL" Subject: Re: Where it starts >> Dunno if this is the right place, but ever since as an 8-year old child I >> experienced the Shoa I keep wondering Why??? >> >> ~=michel >> > >I was browsing through the stacks at the UCSD main library a few months ago >and glanced through a title or two which dealt with the question "where was >God during the Holocaust". I'd like to open up the discussion to this area >(if that's OK with the list manager). > >Bruce Since Bruce apparently wants to open the discussion, I reproduce here (without Daniel's permission) a posting I sent to 'mail.liberal.judaism': --------------------------------------- >Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1993 21:49:08 +0100 >From: eytan@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr (Michel Eytan) >Subject: Why? (Meditations on the Warsaw Uprising) > >I realize that this list is not the best forum for discussing my question, but >there are several people on it (some known, many others yet unknown) that I >very highly respect and their opinion matters to me. > >Yesterday evening I attended at Shul the ceremony for the 50th anniversary of >the Warsaw ghetto uprising and I again asked myself (as I do ever so often >since at age 8 I was left without my father and 22 members of my close >family): > >WHY did all this happen to us? WHY do we Jews have to suffer in body and mind >ever since some 3500 years ago we became slaves in Egypt? I believe that Isaac >was indeed offered up to God, even if not immediately, except that it was 'lo >e`had bilvad' (not merely him) but all his children and children's children... > >Was it to ram down Abraham and his desendance's throat his great crime: to >imagine a God who would want such a thing? Was it that 'Fathers have eaten >sour grapes...'? > >Of course I know the Orthodox answer: it's because of our sins. But did we >really sin so much more than the other nations? Are we really a nation of >immoral, corrupt, murderous vilains -- all of us, including the milions of >infants that have been slaughtered since we became a people? > >The marxist and psycho-analytic answers do not satisfy me any better either. > >So WHY? WHY? WHY? > >------------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1993 10:18:50 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: Jerry Rosenberg Subject: Jewish studies issue Instead of using the word Jew or Jewish, consider JudaicStudies or JudeoStudies as more encompassing and with less historical connotations. While it is disturbing that so much time has to be spent on deciding on the title for a journal, it does reflect the continuing problem of self- identification and imposed identification of Jew, Jewish, Judaic, Judeo, Hebrews, etc. Unfortunately, history has flavored these words with so many meanings and with much varied baggage, that it is unlikely anytime soon that any choice will be without problems. Jerry Rosenberg jrosenbe@ua1vm ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1993 10:56:35 -0500 Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: Jim Mott Subject: Brundibar Forwarded message: > From LISTSERV@uicvm.uic.edu Fri Jun 11 15:43 GMT 1993 > To: MCLEODJ@sask.usask.ca > Cc: delatizk@bbn.com, Holocaust List > Subject: Brundibar > In-Reply-To: Your message of Fri, 11 Jun 93 09:40:02 -0500. > Reply-To: delatizky%BBN.COM@uicvm.uic.edu > Date: Fri, 11 Jun 93 10:53:18 -0400 > Message-Id: <9631.739810398@bbn.com> > From: delatizk%BBN.COM@uicvm.uic.edu > > Have you heard the new recording of _Brundibar_ on Channel Classics? In your > opinion, is it an adequate (or better) performance? Worth investigating? > > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1993 12:08:04 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: FISHMAN@SNYFARVA.BITNET Subject: Re: Where it starts On the subject of the Christian background to the _Shoah_, I suggest that all interested parties read Franklin H. Littell's _The Crucifixion of the Jews_. Littell refuses to indulge in ameliorative rhetoric. Whatever your religious allegiance, his book is worthy of your attention. **************** Charles Fishman ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1993 12:09:08 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: FISHMAN@SNYFARVA.BITNET Subject: Re: Flames Ascending Rita, I would me *most happy* to consider the libretto. Although it may not qualify as "poetry," its significance may permit me to include it. At this point in my work, I can make no solid judgment on this, since I have no idea how much room I'll eventually have, how much material I will compile, or what restrictions a potential publisher will impose. If you and your colleagues can accept this uncertitude, please send a copy of _The Brundibar_ to me. --Charles Fishman 2956 Kent Rd E Wantagh, NY 11793 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1993 12:10:29 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: FISHMAN@SNYFARVA.BITNET Subject: Re: JEWSTUDIES Title is Good Dear Michel & Itzhak, No matter how you turn the phrase, "Jewstudies" is simply unappealing, at best, and offensive, at worst. Most significantly, it is unnecessary: it certainly is not either "convenient" or "logical." When the director of the Nuyorican Cafe in Manhattan came to read for the Latin American Student Organization on campus, he made a big point about his teaching _The Merchant of Venice_ at Rutgers and spoke of a Jewish woman who had nurtured him. However, when I took him out to dinner--he and his black back-up musician, to be exact--he indulged in Jew-baiting the entire time. Excerpts: "What kind of merchant is your father?" "Is your wife a Jewess?" My father was no kind of merchant. My wife, bless her, is a Jew, who is admired and loved by those who know her (and who does not need to be studied). And anti-Semites come in sheep's clothing as well as in the garb of wolves. Let us not yield to the rhetoric of the oppressors and the sick. --Charles ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1993 12:11:28 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: FISHMAN@SNYFARVA.BITNET Subject: Re: Jewish studies issue Jerry, Good suggestions on the title. I, too, hope we can get past this issue quickly. --Charles ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1993 12:38:59 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: Dr John Gillies Subject: Why? It is presumptuous of me - as a newcomer to this list and a non-Jew - to enter into this discussion, but it seems to me that the question "Where was God during the Holocaust?" (or - in the title of Arno Mayer's wonderful book - "Why Did The Skies Not Darken?") is a version (albeit perhaps the most powerful and important version in human history) of the Problem of Evil, with which philosophers and theologians have wrestled for milennia. Why, if there is a supremely good Being in control of the universe, does Evil exist? Why, if God is good, does God allow even a single child to die of starvation? The problem, of course, is only a problem if one accepts the original premise. I have discussed this many times with religious friends - Christians and Jews - and my conclusion from these discussions is that, in reality, none of these friends could *conceive of the existence* of an answer to this question which they would regard as "satisfactory". They cannot conceive of there *being* a resolution of the "Problem of Evil" which, however intellectually sophisticated, would actually lead them to *feel in their hearts* that "now I am content". I hope fervently that no-one will misunderstand me when I say that, for me, the question "Where was God during the Holocaust?" is fundamentally the same question as that asked by a parent whose child has been murdered while playing in a local park (as happened to a colleague of mine) - "Why was this terrible thing allowed to happen?" I don't believe that such things are "allowed" to happen, but surely the alternative is not to believe that they happen "at random" ? My own view is that trying to understand why the Holocaust occurred is an immensely difficult and complex task. It is also of supreme importance - but I believe that we are likely to get closer to an answer by examining the history and psychology of anti- Semitism, the ideology of nazism, the politics and psychology of oppression and victimisation and related questions. I do not think this will be an acceptable view to everyone on this list - but the task is urgent, as we witness again the rise of neo-nazi movements across Europe. John Gillies Department of Psychology Adam Smith Building University of Glasgow Glasgow G12 8RT Tel: (0)41 339 8855 ext.5351 Scotland johng@psy.glasgow.ac.uk ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1993 15:41:35 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: RUEDNBRG@NYUACF.BITNET Subject: Re: Why? Date sent: 11-JUN-1993 The question of "why" is so very broad. In order to begin to attempt to think about it, it seems to me that one needs to specify and direct the question, since it can be discussed on so many levels - historical, philosophical, political, psychological. The "why" of an 8 year old is not the same as that of a researcher. The 'why' of an 8 year old speaks of the pain that lasts a lifetime, and in some cases cannot be resolved. As for intellectual inquiries: "why" the Jews, "why" in Europe, "why" victimization and scapegoating in general...these all are slightly different inquiries that are related, yet specific in their own ways... How we feel about it and what we learn from it are yet another layer. The most simple answer of course is: why? because it was possible. It's not a very reassuring answer. But first we must come to understand the specifics of a particular event, which includes both cause and effect and random chance. And then we must come to understand that just because it is possible, and did indeed happen in the way that it did, does not mean that everything else and all other possibilities in life are destroyed as well. It is hard to live with an unanswered "why"... =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Lucia Ruedenberg New York University Dep of Performance Studies Email: ruednbrg@ACFcluster.NYU.EDU =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1993 17:00:54 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: LC0380@ALBNYVMS.BITNET Subject: WHY? WHY? WHY? Why did the Shoah occur? You probably believe that both historical and Biblical explanations cannot provide any answers to explain the life of the Jewish people. This is such an overwhelming question that I can't dare to offer a definitive opinion. Sometimes, though, I think this: we are all human beings, Jews and non-Jews alike. Non-Jews perpetrated many horrors on the Jewish people, and, as human beings, are in part representatives of the human race. This darkness of the human soul is part of the definition of human beings, like it or not. If human beings have such a spectacular capacity to act out this darkness, then possibly human beings do not have the capacity to explain or understand it. I'm just wondering if anyone can answer your WHY. I don't mean this as an evasion. And I can't say that this is necessarily my only or final opinion on this subject. I sometimes look upon us Jews as "chosen" for a difficult fate, but I hesitate to say by whom or why. Laura Cohen lc0380@albnyvms.bitnet ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1993 11:47:18 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: FISHMAN@SNYFARVA.BITNET Subject: Re: Why? John, Thank you for writing and for sharing your views on this crucial and unresolvable question. By way of reply, here is a poem from my anthology, _Blood to Remember: American Poets on the Holocaust_: GOD'S DEATH during the Holocaust along with the six million God is slowly dying golden glares of Stars of David blind Him shattered glass from Kristallnacht cuts Him devilish plans in Hitler's ravings deafen Him Emanuel Ringelblum's pen scratching his ghetto diary crazes Him shrieks of Jews tortured in experiments pierce Him blood of victims shot naked into pits drowns Him Zyklon B gas shaken into "showers" poisons Him stench of smoke rising from ovens suffocates Him even God almighty can not go on can not survive closing Anne Frank's innocent eyes in Bergen-Belsen God flings Himself to the four winds hurls Himself beyond the Heavens banishes Himself from the Universe forever I say forever **************** Charles Fishman ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1993 11:48:20 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: FISHMAN@SNYFARVA.BITNET Subject: Re: Why? Apologies-- I meant to include the attribution: "God's Death" is a poem by Florence W. Freed, (c) 1985 by Florence W. Freed. --C. Fishman ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1993 11:49:31 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: Chris Lasdauskas Subject: Re: Why? In-Reply-To: <9306111742.AA28463@geo.geol.utas.edu.au> Chris Lasdauskas _--_|\ Email : u883550@geo.geol.utas.edu.au Dep't of Geography & / Oz \ Phone : +61 02 202 484 (fax 202 989) Environmental Studies \_.--._/ University of Tasmania V On Fri, 11 Jun 1993, Dr John Gillies wrote: > It is presumptuous of me - as a newcomer to this list and a non-Jew - > to enter into this discussion, but it seems to me that the question > "Where was God during the Holocaust?" (or - in the title of Arno I don't think it is presumptuous of you - the Holocaust affected many millions of non-Jewish people, and killed several million of them. This aside, it is every Human's right, and duty, to discuss such acts of evil - and to act to stop their re-occurrence. Chris ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1993 11:51:26 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: lin collette Subject: RE: Anti-semitism In-Reply-To: Message of Fri, 11 Jun 1993 09:59:00 CDT from Michel, I must second the previous poster's comments about 90% of gentiles be- ing anti-semitic. I was going to comment the last time, but your post made me a little too angry to send a calm note. You can feel persecuted all you like; that's your business. But to generalize as you've done is as bad as my saying that 90% of all Jews are anti-gentile. Or that 90% of Jews are racist or sex- ist or whatever. Try substituting different maligned racial and ethnic groups and see what you come up with; then you'll see why people get steamed. Blaming and accusations do no good in increasing tolerance and getting people to get along. Yes, we should admit the injustices we have committed against each other, but it solves nothing for blacks or whites or Jews or anyone to keep us- ing said injustices as clubs to beat people with. NOTHING justifies oppression of other peoples in toto. But I think you and others need to realize that we are all prejudiced in some way against SOMETHING/SOMEONE/SOME GROUP. Heaven will be when this is ended. In the meantime, we have to learn to work thru those prejudices and to work with each other. Comments such as yours don't contribute to that at all. lin collette (bi599128@brownvm.brown.edu) or (bi599128@brownvm) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1993 11:53:48 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: LC0380@ALBNYVMS.BITNET Subject: Protocols of the Elders of Zion This is in part a private message, but I believe that the list members as a whole will be interested: Last week someone from the University of New Hampshire--whose name and address I failed to save--sent me a message, one part of which queried how it would be possible to get a copy of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion without having to join a neo-Nazi group. Good question! I sent a email message to the Simon Wiesenthal center, asking how to get a copy of PAZ. The response listed two books, which contain PAZ in English translation: > The Truth About 'The Protocols of Zion': A Complete Exposure by Herman Bernstein (New York: Ktav, 1971) Exhibit F contains the English translation of PAZ. > Warrant for Genocide: The Myth of the Jewish World-Conspiracy and the Protocols of the Elders of Zion by Norman Cohn (Harper & Row, 1966) Laura Cohen lc0380@albnyvms.bitnet ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1993 12:09:17 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: "Sam Edelman, Ph.D." Subject: Re: Flames Ascending Judith Berman helped us out a number of years ago in developing a radio documentary on Terezin and Brundibar in particular. I am pleased to see that she now has a new translation out of the opera. Brundibar is an important cultural artifact of the Holocaust which speaks volumes to children. I look forward to seeing your work Rita. Sam Edelman, Dept of Communication Arts and Sciences, CSU-Chico, Chico, CA 95929-0502 sedelman@oavax.csuchico.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1993 14:42:37 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: BERMAN E-MAIL Subject: RE: WHY? WHY? WHY? Why? Who can answer that question? Hitler, Eichman, Speer, etc... those who did it are the only ones who might know. I'll bet most of the murderers, evil as they were, did not even know thw fundamental reason why they were being asked to do this. They most likely responded to the rhetoric of their leaders. This is most definitely not an "excuse", but it appears to me the only answer I can think of to explain what happened, the bandwagon effect that occured. The motivating factors that brought this about will always be a mystery to me, and I think to anyone who finds the idea of the systematic attempt to anihilate millions of innocent victims abhorent. I had an aquaintance for a brief period of time who sincerely thought that the Jews had it coming to them. He happened to have been of German descent but that does not appear to be a prerequisite nowadays. He said that the Jews were a threat to Hitler and the logical solution was to kill them, just as the jews would have killed him had they had the chance. He could never explain to me exactly how Jews in Shtetles, old and young, most not even in Germany and many poor, without political or economic power, could be a threat to Hitler. But he maintained that they were and that Hitler was justified. Then he went on to dispute the actual details of the holocaust, and I decided that there was no point in proceding with the issue (I "met" him on a BBS, I then saw him once, and have no idea (or concern of) what he is doing now). How do you argue with that? How do you educate "that"? If anyone knows, please tell me. HAL BERMAN ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1993 14:44:13 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: "Raymond G. Harder" Subject: Re: Bob Werman's objection to "Jewstudies" In-Reply-To: <9306102146.AA02169@eis.calstate.edu> Of course his reaction was psychological, internal, and pscholinguistic! That is exactly the point. Words mean what we "feel" they mean moreso than what we "know" they mean. I could give a detailed etymological and lexical definition of "Jew," but it would be meaningless! Words have power based on their context which is made up of the situation in which they are used AND the totality of the situations in which the users have experienced them before. As a White Anglo-saxon Protestant I find it an offensive term inmost contexts and therefore think that it should NOT be used in this context. Yes, it is sad that the Anti-semites have taken away a perectly good word, but the fact is that they have and it cannot be taken back except by historical accident, usage, and most importantly time--lots of time. It is similar to the word "nigger." I recall very vividly being offended to hear my father use this word pejoratively once as a child. I was surprized because I had never known my father to be intolerant or bigoted in any way. He had always treated people equally. Perhaps this made this all the more of a stark uttering. However, the most offensive use of the word I ever heard was my first day on the job at an inner city school when I heard one fifth grade black boy call another a "dumb ghetto-black nigger." I came unglued! I made it very clear that I would not tolerate the use of "that word" in my classroom or in my presence. My students found it somewhat amusing that I would be offended by a word that they used regularly. Why should I care if they didn't? I told them that it was a symbol for me of many things that I had fought against and more importantly for them of things their immediate forefathers had fought against. The reality of how they were using it (quite innocently) could not overcome the symbolic power of the word. Regarding the comments implying that most non-jews are anti-semites, I grew up in white, republican Orange County California where I think the first black student in any of my schools came in my junior year of high school and "Hebrews" ;-)> were scarce as hen's teeth (I knew two families in 20 years). I can assure you that no one I knew ever donned a white sheet and very, very few ever demonstrated even verbal racial prejudice (epithets, jokes, slurs, etc....) in my presence. As a whole, we (whoever "we" are) aren't out to get you (whoever "you" are). For the most part we never paid any attention to you or your lot in life at all. In a world like ours, perhaps that is the greatest evil of all.... **************************************************************************** * Raymond G. Harder "Can't walk today, I don't feel well."* * Educational Technology Consultant "Why don't you sit out in the sun?" * * 909-983-4713 "What? people will think I'm lazy! * * rharder@eis.calstate.edu -- My 92 year old grandmother * **************************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1993 14:47:01 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: HANFTS@conrad.appstate.edu Subject: Re: WHY? WHY? WHY? To explain why Shoah occurred, a structure or at minimum, a consensus of widely accepted assumptions, must exist if a broad general explanation is to be established. Unfortunately, no such structure exists. For the orthodox, who accept one set of assumptions, Shoah is either divine retribution for Jewish transgressions or a mysterious part of an incomprehendable divine plan whose ultimate course and cause is known only to the creator. When Rabbi Rubenstein, the author of "The Cunning of History," was told by an orthodox Luthern prelate that Hitler was the instrument of divine punishment for the Jews, just as the Berlin wall & a divided nation was Germany's punishment for Shoah, he rejected a religious explanation for a secular one which assumes that Shoah was another case of Humankind's inhumanity. In his explanation Jews developed a "defeated peoples" posture which enable them to survive by suffering limited periods of persection. He then shows how the century before Shoah changed conditions in Germany which enabled the Nazi to change the rules which had enabled Jews to survive earlier persecutions. The methods which enabled them to endure earlier persecutions left them vulnerable to the deceptions of the Nazis and to the death camps while the world did little to help them and they were very unequipped to help themselves. While someone earlier suggested that Shoah happened, because it could happen, she hit on the other popular set of assumptions. The emergence of the totalitarian state (i.e. Hannah Arent) made possible the regimentation, ideology, instrumentality, (pick your preferred emphasis) etc., which made it possible for a ruling elite to marshal the resources of the nation to facilitate the genocide of one/several sizeable groups of its citizens. The recurrance of this methodology (to various degrees) used in Indonesia against the ethnic Chinese, by Pol Pot's followers in their "killing fields" to say nothing of the genocide of the Soviet peasant class under Stalin or the current acts of "ethnic cleansing" in the Balkan (in some cases by groups who have direct ties to the fascist colaberators in WW II). It seems to me that Shoah is clearly a case of Human inhumanity (unless you want to postulate that the God's of all these peoples have a coordinated punishment program operating, with localized variations to fit indigenous conditions and groups). It also seems clear to me that the failure of people of "good will," both then and now, to oppose these efforts at genocide make possible their longevity. I have difficulty in understanding why the U.S., Great Brittain, Canada, etc. sening dozens of bombing raids all over Europe in 1943, 1944 & 1945 couldn't spare a dozen planes once a week, or once a month or once a year to destroy the railroad tracks taking people to the death camps? Why could we not bomb the plants where Ziclon B gas was manufactured? The tolerance of the anti-semitism of Pat Buchannan and Pat Robertson in the 1992 election campaign is part of a broad attitude which ignores the ethnic cleansing in the Balkans, the ethnic warfare in areas like Azurbyjan (S. central region of old Soviet Union) and the racial/religious civil strife in the Sudan. By tolerating, as a nation and a society, these acts of genocide, we take some steps in the shoes of those whose silence made Shoah possible. Sheldon Hanft (hanfts@appstate.edu) History Dept. Appalachian State Univ. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1993 14:48:33 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: Simon Wiesenthal Center Library/Archives Subject: Re: Brundibar A second recording of Brundibar has recently become available on the Romanitic Robot label as part of the two-CD set Terezin 1941-1945. It is distributed in the US by Albany Music Group. With an all-Czech ensemble I believe it to be a superior recording to the one on Channel. I have found that the children's voices are difficult to understand on the Channel recording (the orchestra seems far too loud). The entire set is a superb survey of Terezin music - piano, chamber music, vocal as well as the recording of Brundibar. It is however a bit pricy - $40 for the set at Tower. Paul H. Hamburg Reference Librarian Simon Wiesenthal Center e-mail: simonwie@class.org , ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1993 14:51:17 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: "Matthew Spewak" Subject: Neo Natzi BBS's [MTV SPECIAL] This weekend I was watching MTV news, and they did a bit on neo natzi underground bbs systems. These underground systems entitle any user to gain information on creating and building bombs, napalm, and other various information on how to obtain ilegal weapons and drugs. In addition to this, the users are asked to leave names and addresses of Jews, Blacks, or Gays that they would like to be "round up". This news brief particularly disturbed me, as I am an active member on a great number of useful legitimate bbs's, and find these Hate BBS disgusting. I hope that we can do something to stop these bbs, maybe turn them in to the FCC or FBI. Also, (although I am not usually impressed by MTV's specials) MTV is airing a special on Neo Natzis on June 16th. -MS ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1993 15:53:12 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: Cecelia A Clancy Subject: Dominican Republic Sosua Settlement Dear Seth, I have checked _Paper Walls_ by David Wyman and there are a few things mentioned relevant to the Sousa settlement on pages 50 and on pages 61 - 62. Additionally, many references are cited by Wyman in the Notes section of _Paper Walls_ as well as the bibliography which follows. Briefly, he states that at the Envian Conference, the Dominican Republic alone offered any real offers of a place or of a plan to settle Jewish refugees from Europe when that conference met at the French resort town of Evian-les-Bains in July 1938 [1],[2]. I propose that the Evian Conference was nothing more than an excuse for a junket as far as the majority of its participants were concerned. The Conference was called by FDR very soon after the Anschluss of April 1938, of the 33 invited nations, Italy alone declined (Wyman writes "refused" [3]). The conference was then very swiftly organized - at THAT part of the job. everybody seemed quite enthusiastic - but once all to those delegates finally arrived in the resort town, there "enthusiasm" for "real work" seems to have waned, for very little practical work, and a lot of "busy work" and "make work" got done there. And Wyman in _Paper Walls_ [4] suggests that the Dominican Republic had a primary motive that would surprise us and would infuriate the hard-core anti-Semites: To increase the percentage of Whites among the Dominican Republic's populace. (Among the hard-core anti-Semites, the Jews are considered to be non-Whites.) A small settlement, the Sosua settlement, eventually was founded in the Dominican Republic as result of actions initiated at the Envian Conference. Wyman, in the Notes section at the end of his book, cites the following references that might be helpful in researching the Sosua settlement [5]. _Foreign Relations of the United States_, 1938, I, 764-765, 773, 849 _Foreign Relations of the United States_, 1939, II, 70-71 _Foreign Relations of the United States_, 1940 (Washington, 1957) II, 213 Bruno Lasker, "An Atlas of Hope", _Survey Graphic_, XXIX, (November 1940), 590. Sumner Wells to Franklin D. Roosevelt, February 27, 1939, Franklin D. Roosevelt Papers, Official File 3136, _Contemporary Jewish Record_, II (September-October 1939), 100. Dominican Republic Settlement Association, Inc, _Concerning Refugee Settlement in the Dominican Republic: A Meeting at the Town Hall Club, New York City, February, 1940_ (New York, 1940). Seth, find out the names of the people who attended this meeting, and then, since you are in the NYC area, look up the names in the local phone directories. Maybe you will find somebody who can give you a first-person account. Atherton Lee, _Agricultural Possibilities at Sosua Settlement_, (New York [1940]), pages 1-2. Earl P. Hanson, "New Citizens for Dominica", _Christian Science Monitor_, Weekly Magazine Section, August 10, 1940, page 13. Joseph A. Rosen, "New Neighbors in Sosua", _Survey Graphic_, XXX (September, 1941), pages 474-478. Dominican Republic Settlement Association, Inc., _Sosua: Haven for Refugees in the Domenican Republic (New York, 1941), pages 4, 6, 8-10, 16 _Foreign Relations of the United States_, 1941 (Washington, 1958), I, 438. _Foreign Relations of the United States_, 1942 (Washington, 1960), I, 451-452. _Refugee Settlement in the Dominican Republic: A Survey Conducted Under the Auspices of the Brookings Institution_ (Washington, 1942), 285, 287, 327, 331, 332, 340. Louise W. Holborn, _The International Refugee Organization_ (London, 1956), 405. References: 1. David S. Wyman, _Paper Walls: America and the Refugee Crisis 1938 - 1941_, First Paperback Edition, (Panthenon Books, New York, 1985), page 61 - 62 Based on Wymans doctoral thesis (1966, History Department, Harvard University) and originally published by the University of Massachusetts Press, Amherst, 1968) 2. _Ibid_, pages 48-49 3. _Ibid_, page 45 4. _Ibid_, page 61 5. _Ibid_, page 240 ****************************************************************** Cecelia Mu"llermeder muller+@pitt.edu ****************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1993 15:55:02 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: Eliot Friedman Subject: Re: Neo Natzi BBS's [MTV SPECIAL] In-Reply-To: <9306141640.aa01790@thama1.apgea.army.mil> from "Matthew Spewak" at Jun 14, 93 02:51:17 pm Matthew informed us> > This weekend I was watching MTV news, and they did a bit on neo natzi .. .. > Also, (although I am not usually impressed by MTV's specials) MTV is airing a > special on Neo Natzis on June 16th. Although I appreciate Matthew's information, one has to wonder what material like this is doing on MTV, supposedly a MUSIC and ENTERTAINMENT channel. Perhaps part of the problem is that the network executives see Nazism as entertainment, and highly profitable entertainment at that. -Eliot ekfriedm@thama1.apgea.army.mil ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1993 15:56:04 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: STONE@UWPG02.BITNET Subject: Protocols of the Elders of lZion I saw copies of the "Protocols" for sale on a sidewlk table somewhere in downtown New York City, probably in June 1992. The table was staffed by Black Muslims or similarly dressed people. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1993 16:56:20 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: Daniel F Boyd Subject: NEO Natzi BBS's [MTV SPECIAL] In-Reply-To: <9306141952.AA06993@electra.cs.buffalo.edu> "Matthew Spewak" writes: > This weekend I was watching MTV news, and they did a bit on neo > natzi underground bbs systems. The Neo-Nazis also have newsletters, office space, and laser printers; of course they have BBSs. BFHD. > These underground systems entitle any user to gain information on > creating and building bombs, napalm, So does the public library. > and other various information on how to obtain ilegal weapons and > drugs. Ask any ex-con. (This is probably how the Nazis found out.) > In addition to this, the users are asked to leave names and > addresses of Jews, Blacks, or Gays that they would like to be "round > up". While this is scary-sounding, remember that this nation has civil law and order. No gangs of brown-shirted thugs are going to be running around beating up on people -- it would be all over the local news and something would be done about it damn quick by the FBI. This country still works. > This news brief particularly disturbed me, as I am an active member > on a great number of useful legitimate bbs's, and find these Hate > BBS disgusting. So do I. But shutting them down isn't the answer. > I hope that we can do something to stop these bbs, maybe turn them > in to the FCC or FBI. It's not within the government's power to shut them down; this is so the government can't also shut down that local news program I mentioned earlier. The Nazis were able to run Germany because they controlled all the news and all the sources of information. To prevent anything like that from happening here, we explicitly outlaw any attempt to muzzle anybody. It means the Neo-Nazis can repetitively auto-post all the paranoid ravings they want to alt.censorship and soc.history -- but it also means that no Nazi-sympathizer local sheriff or police chief could muzzle the media and cover up neo-Nazi activities in his community. That's why we don't want censorship in this country. It doesn't work and it lets bad people get control. > Also, (although I am not usually impressed by MTV's specials) MTV is airing a > special on Neo Natzis on June 16th. Of course, everything on MTV is sociopathic silliness and should be outlawed immediately! (Here I'm kidding. Though you might make a case that "Achy Breaky Heart" is an abomination.) Daniel F. Boyd -- boyd@cs.buffalo.edu Department of Computer Science, 226 Bell Hall Buffalo NY 14260 Office: Trailer A (716) 645-3774 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1993 16:58:07 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List From: Aviad Sheinfeld Subject: Re: Neo Natzi BBS's [MTV SPECIAL] In-Reply-To: <199306142056.AA13378@ftpbox.mot.com> from "Eliot Friedman" at Jun 14, 93 03:55:02 pm >From the fingertips of Eliot Friedman came forth: > > Matthew informed us> > > This weekend I was watching MTV news, and they did a bit on neo natzi > . > . > > Also, (although I am not usually impressed by MTV's specials) MTV is airing a > > special on Neo Natzis on June 16th. > > Although I appreciate Matthew's information, one has to wonder what > material like this is doing on MTV, supposedly a MUSIC and ENTERTAINMENT > channel. Perhaps part of the problem is that the network executives > see Nazism as entertainment, and highly profitable entertainment at that. > > -Eliot > ekfriedm@thama1.apgea.army.mil > Eliot, Well, that is one way to see it. MTV is actually more of a "young viewers" network than a strictly "music television" network. They have plenty of shows and specials that deal with issues like environmentalism, safe sex, voting, etc. Perhaps we should wait to see the special before taking a negative stance against its legitimacy. And if the show turns out to be informative and raises even a few people's awareness of the problems which are still very much alive today, we should applaud the network for its social responsibility. How can you jump the gun and denounce MTV for bringing up such an important issue? Remember that the audience will be largely young. MTV viewers feel empowered to change the future, why stifle them? Do you feel that a special on Nazism today would make more of an impact if shown on MTV during prime time, or on PBS some Sunday morning? The spread of information is crucial. Aviad "A young person" ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1993 16:59:36 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List Comments: Converted from PROFS to RFC822 format by PUMP V2.2 From: Ksenia Kopystynska Subject: RE: Anti-semitism In-Reply-To: note of 93-06-14 13:37 From: Ksenia Kopystynska Education Library University of Alberta I agree with Lin. Almost always when I want to get in some contact with Jews I am automatically accused of being antysemitic because I am a Pole. Often I am not given any chance to prove that I am not. I am being accused of all sins from the past. Doesn't matter what I say is wrong. How to change it? I do not know. Sorry for what I will say, but I think that you used to antysemitism so much that it become essential for your identity to this degree that it is difficult to convince you that not always is like that. And one more thing. In my understanding I am responsible for things I do or do not. I am not responsible for past and for other people deeds. Judge me for what I am not for what others did to you. Ksenia Kopystynska Regards, Ksenia ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1993 13:28:49 CDT Reply-To: Holocaust List Sender: Holocaust List