The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

Shofar FTP Archive File: miscellany/holocaus/log9306


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From: BITNET list server at UICVM (1.7f) 
Subject: File: "HOLOCAUS LOG9306"
To: Ken McVay 
Status: O

=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 1 Jun 1993 11:26:12 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Jerry Rosenberg 
Subject:      films and photographs

A number of years ago Yad Vashem put out a microfiche photographic record of
some 15,000 pictures from their files. It is available from Research
Publictions, Inc., Drawer AB, 12 Lunar Drive , Woodbridge, CT 06525,
(203) 397-2600. In terms of films and videos, Memories of the Camps from
Frontline and #20 in the World at War series contain excellent footage on the
process and consequences of extermination. I believe there is also some footage
on the Einsatzgruppen killings on the Eastern front.
Jerry Rosenberg
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 2 Jun 1993 09:07:59 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Roger Simon 
Subject:      Re: films and photographs

Recently I visited the new Museum of Tolerance-Beit HaShoah in Los Angles.
The museum contains an extensive number of computer terminals connected
to an elaborate software system and data base stored on lazer disc. THis
system allows for the retrieval of photographs, documentary film, video,
and text related to various aspects of the Holocaust. There are audio
tracks available for the film and video.

While exploring this data base I retrieved two documentary films the
first showing killings on the Eastern Front [the footage was tinged
in sepia], the second was footage on the use of gas vans for mass
killings. Both documents were accompanied by sound tracks...the first
with gun shots and bullet whines, the second with the clanking and creaking
of the metal doors of the van as they were opened and closed. I had
seen similar visual scenes numereous times in documentary footage but
I had never before seen any sequences with soundtracks. They were
obviously dubbed [e.g. no voices were heard in the shooting scence in the
first sequence].

I asked the staff member at the musuem information desk if he had any
information on these visual sequences. He said that they were Soviet
footage and in all probability "staged" sequences. He did not know if
they had been additionally dubbed in the United States. Does anyone
have information on "staged" Soviet documentary film related to the
Holocaust and whether or not these sequences have circulated with audio
tracks?

It should also be noted that no where in the computer data base is
it mentioned that the film sequences are in all probability "staged".

R_SIMON
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 2 Jun 1993 09:09:20 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Danny Keren 
Subject:      Re:  Hard evidence for the Final Solution?

I received a few e-mail requests about Holocaust related GIF files. This
is the list of files I have; I hope the moderator will be kind enough
to post it, although it's long...

I am looking into Steve Carr's suggestion as to where to store the GIFs,
and will update the list when some arrangement is found. There was an
offer for an additional site as well.

So, here is the list:



Aerial-View-Of-Krema-III.gif
----------------------------
[PHoH, p. 287] A detail from a photograph of the Auschwitz-Birkenau
extermination camp, taken by a US plane in 25 August 1944. Krema III
is clearly seen, and the roof vents through which the Zyklon-B was
introduced are visible. Later, Kremas II-V were destroyed by the SS
(see, for instance, "Chamber-Overview.gif").


Auschwitz-Glasses.gif
----------------------
[AotH, Vol. I part 2, picture number 827] A pile of the victims
glasses at Auschwitz.


Auschwitz-Shoes.gif
----------------------------
[Pressac, p. 420] Sorting the shoes of victims in Auschwitz. Like
all the other property of the victims, it was sent to Germany,
except for what was left in the camp by the fleeing SS.


Belsen-Mass-Grave.gif
----------------------------
[Belsen, p. 256] A mass grave in the Belsen camp.


Belzec-Shoes.gif
----------------
[KZ-STAAT, p. 144] Pile of the victims shoes at the Belzec
extermination camp.


Brutalizing-Polish-Jews-1.gif
----------------------------
[PHoH, p. 75] German soldiers brutalizing a Jew in Poland.


Brutalizing-Polish-Jews-2.gif
----------------------------
[PHoH, p. 79] Geramn soldiers cutting the beard of an elderly Jew
in Poland.


Chamber-Overview.gif
----------------------------
[Pressac, p. 261] The current state of the gas chamber of Krema II
in Auschwitz; it was dynamited by the fleeing SS in an attempt to
hide its criminal purpose and usage.


Cremation-Pit.gif
----------------------------
[Pressac, p. 422] One of the cremation pits used to burn the victims
of the gas chambers in Auschwitz. These "burning pits" were
used mainly in the summer of 1944, when the extermination was
going at such a rate that the furnaces couldn't handle the
number of corpses.


Detail-Plan-Chamber-1.gif
----------------------------
[Pressac, p. 302] A detail from the plan for the gas chamber of
Krema II in Auschwitz (designated L. Keller 1, or "corpse cellar 1",
in this drawing). it is clear that its doors are designed to
open outward (contrary to what the Holocaust deniers say) to make
the removal of the corpses easier. Later, they were changed to a
single door, opening outward.


Doc-Furnace-Capacity.gif
----------------------------
[Pressac, p. 247] In a letter from SS-Sturmbannfuehrer Jahrling to
SS-General Kammler, the cremating capacity of the five Auschwitz
crematoriums is specified as 4,756 per 24 working hours.


Door.gif
----------------------------
[Pressac, p. 486] Both sides of a door which probably was used in a
homicidal gas chamber in Auschwitz, and was discovered in the
building yard of the camp. Note the protective grid for the peephole,
placed on the *inside* of the door, which is gas tight and reinforced.


EG1.gif
----------------------------
[TGOD, p. 132] A mass execution of Jews in Nazi occupied Soviet Union.


EG2.gif
----------------------------
[TGOD, p. 162] A mass execution of Jews in Nazi occupied Soviet Union.
The SS man is firing at a Jewish woman who is wounded and trying
to get up.


EG3.gif
----------------------------
[Himmler, p. 434] A mass execution of Jews in Nazi occupied Soviet
Union. Naked Jews, including a young boy, just before their murder.


EG4.gif
----------------------------
[PHoH, p. 186] A mass execution of Jews in Nazi occupied Ukraine.


Furnaces.gif
----------------------------
[Pressac, p. 334] The furnaces of Krema II in Auschwitz.


Gas-Chambers-Of-Krema-IV.gif
----------------------------
[Pressac, p. 417] The gas chambers of Krema IV in Auschwitz. As
opposed to Kremas II and III, these gas chambers were above ground, and
the Zyklon-B was introduced through small openings in the wall (visible
in the photograph).


German-Classroom.gif
--------------------
[PHoH, p. 37] Circa 1935: two Jewish pupils are humiliated before
their classmates. The inscription on the blackboard reads "The
Jew is our greatest enemy, beware of the Jew".


German-Soldiers.gif
----------------------------
[PHoH, p. 71] German soldiers on the way to Poland. The inscription on
the railway car reads: "We are going to Poland to strike at the Jews".
On the left, an antisemitic drawing of a Jew.


Himmler-Report.gif
------------------
[Fleming, p. 92]  A report from Himmler to Hitler, listing
363,211 Jews murdered in the Nazi occupied Soviet Union during
August-November of 1942.


Inventory-Chamber.gif
----------------------------
[Pressac, p. 438] An inventory for the underground floor of Krema III
in Auschwitz, specifying the presence of "14 brausen" (14 shower
heads) and one "gasdichtetur" (gas-tight door) in the gas chamber
(Leichenkeller 1). This room, sometimes referred to as a "gassing
cellar" in the SS-correspondence, had fake shower heads installed
to mislead the victims into believing they were going to be washed.
"Leichenkeller 2" (referred to many times as an "undressing room"
in SS-correspondence), doesn't have a gas tight door neither shower
heads.


Jewish-Fighters-In-Warsaw.gif
-----------------------------
[PHoH, p. 329] When the Jews of the Warsaw ghetto learned the truth
about the "resettlement" action, some of them rebelled. The Nazis
responded by shelling and bombing the ghetto, till all the occupants
died or surrendered.


Krema-IV-Overview.gif
----------------------------
[Pressac, p. 418] An overview of Krema IV in Auschwitz. The gas
chambers are in the back; in the foreground, the morgue and the
crematorium. Kremas II-V were destroyed by the SS before they fled
the camp.


Kristallnacht.gif
----------------------------
[PHoH, p. 58] A synagogue burns in Siegen, Germany, on November 10,
1938 - "Kristallnacht".


Maidanek-Shoes.gif
-------------------
[AotH, Vol. I part 2, picture number 863] A pile of the victims
shoes at Maidanek.


Majdanek.gif
----------------------------
[KZ-STAAT, p. 144] A scene of horror at the extermination camp of
Maidanek: possibly in a desperate attempt to cover their tracks,
the SS burned corpses of victims.


Map-EinsatzGruppe-A.gif
----------------------------
[NCaA, Vol. VIII, p. 773] part of a report detailing murder of Jews
in the Nazi occupied Baltic states and white Russia by Einsatzgruppe
(special action unit) A, submitted at February 1, 1942. There were
four such "Einsatzgruppen" who carried out the massacres of Jews in
the Soviet Union.


Medical-Experiments-1.gif
----------------------------
[PHoH, p. 310] Children subjected to medical experiments in Auschwitz.


Medical-Experiments-2.gif
----------------------------
[ToWC, Vol. I, p. 899] High-Altitude medical experiments in Dachau.
In order to test how pilots who have to eject from their planes will
fare, SS doctors simulated high-altitude conditions in a chamber, and
exposed people to these conditions. Many prisoners died during such
experiments. In order for the simulation to be as real as possible,
the prisoner is hung by parachute straps.


Medical-Experiments-3.gif
----------------------------
[ToWC, Vol. I, p. 907] Scenes of horror at Nazi concentration camps,
were people were subjected to medical experiments.


Medical-Experiments-4.gif
----------------------------
[PHoH, p. 310] Nazi medical experiments: a prisoner is submerged in
a tank filled with cold water. The goal of this type of experiments
was to check how long German pilots, who had to parachute into
the cold north sea, would survive. Different types of clothing
were tested, as well as different methods for reviving the
experimental subjects who survived.


Plan-Chamber-1.gif
----------------------------
[Pressac, p. 322] The plan of the gas chamber of Krema II in Auschwitz.
The air extraction system (which the Holocaust deniers claim didn't
exist) is clearly shown: "entluftungskanal" means air extraction
duct, and "Beluftung" means ventilation. Remains of the air-extraction
system can still be seen in the ruins.


Resettlement-Of-Jews.gif
----------------------------
[Pressac, p. 557] A letter asking for a truck to bring Zyklon-B to
Auschwitz; uses the standard camouflage term "resettlement of
Jews" to refer to extermination. Another such document asks for
"material for special treatment" - another term used to disguise
extermination (more on these terms in the file of "Original Nazi
documents").

Comments inside square brackets [...] are mine.


Radio message 13
SS Garrison Radio Station Auschwitz
Origin WVHA [SS economic administration head office]

Received 2nd October 1942 in the Kommandantur of Auschwitz Concentration
camp

The movement authorization for one 5 Ton truck with trailer to
Dessau and back in order to pick up material for the resettlement
of the Jews, is hereby accorded.
The authorization is to be given to the driver.

                       Liebehenschel
                    SS Lieutenant Colonel
              Permanent representative of the head
              of the service with the rank of Waffen SS
              Lieutenant General

For file [That's what the F.D.R initial]

Head of the radio station


Shrunken-Head-Buchenwald.gif
----------------------------
[TMWC, Vol. XXXII, p. 271] A shrunken head of a prisoner, discovered
at the Buchenwald camp. In order to terrorize the other prisoners,
the SS guards hanged two shrunken heads in the middle of the camp.


Teeth.gif
----------------------------
[TMWC, Vol. XXX, p. 433] The spoils of the victims: gold teeth and
dental work, collected by the Nazis. After the war, the allies found
many documents listing quantities of gold teeth transferred from the
camps to banks inside Germany; also, a secret vault was discovered,
containing (among other valuables) 384 pounds of gold and silver
teeth.


Treblinka-Mass-Grave.gif
----------------------------
[PHoH, p. 299] A mass grave in the  Treblinka extermination camp.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 2 Jun 1993 12:47:07 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         RICHARD JENSEN 
Subject:      Annenberg Postdoc Fellowships

   ANNENBERG RESEARCH INSTITUTE/CENTER FOR JUDAIC STUDIES
                   University of Pennsylvania

             Post Doctoral Fellowships 1994/95
                 Dissertation Fellowships
           Application Deadline November 1, 1993


The Center invites applications from scholars engaged in
advanced research in Judaic and Near Eastern Studies, the latter
including pre-Christian, Christian, and Islamic history and
culture, from ancient to modern times.  A few fellowships will be
available for advanced graduate students writing their
dissertations on relevant topics.

Any topic within these fields may be proposed.  For academic year
1994-95, the main topic of investigation will be:


           HISTORY -- REMEMBERED, RECOVERED, INVENTED:
       HISTORICAL MEMORY AND THE CONSTRUCTION OF TRADITION

In the self-definition of human societies, historical memory,
research, and invention are important standard elements.  A
variety of materials (creation myths, foundation legends, sacred
history, stories of the lives of religious and national heroes
and villains, and the like) preserved, recovered, and
embellished, help to determine group identities and group
solidarity.  How have these processes, and the resultant visions
of the past, influenced Jewish, Christian and Muslim societies in
previous eras?  What roles do they play today in an age of
assertive nationalisms, politicized religions, and self-conscious
ethnicities?


Preference will be given to projects relevant to this topic,
although others may be considered.

Stipend amounts are based on a Fellow's academic standing and
financial need, with a maximum of $35,000 for the academic year.
A contribution may also be made towards travel expenses.

Awards will be announced January 15, 1994.

For application material and further information, write to:

                  Secretary, Fellowship Program
                  Annenberg Research Institute
                   Center for Judaic Studies
                      420 Walnut Street
                     Philadelphia, PA 19106
                    (telephone) 215-238-1290
                       (fax) 215-238-1540
                     (bitnet) ALLEN@ANNENRES
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 2 Jun 1993 12:48:14 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         RICHARD JENSEN 
Subject:      H-Net Guide to Holocaust & Judaica Libraries

    H-Net OnLine Guide to HOLOCAUST/JUDAICA Research Centers
    from HOLOCAUS@uicvm & Library of Congress
    1. Ann Arbor. Latin American Jewish Studies Association (LAJSA)
       2104 Georgetown Blvd. Ann Arbor, MI 48105
       Tel: (313)  996-2880  AREAS OF INTEREST: Research and
       scholarship on Latin American Jewry, including history and
       contemporary life.  HOLDINGS: Library of serial and
       monographic publications.  LAJSA is currently compiling a
       computerized data base to select data.  PUBLICATIONS:
       Semiannual newsletter (each issue includes a bibliography of
       current publications related to Latin American
       Jewry);Resources for Latin American Jewish Studies (1984);
       membership directory; conference proceedings.  INFORMATION
       SERVICES: Answers inquiries; provides advisory and reference
       services and information on research in progress; evaluates
       and analyzes data; conducts seminars and workshops;
       distributes publications; makes referrals to other sources
       of information; permits limited onsite use of collections.
       Services are available to anyone upon payment of membership
       fees.
    2. Atlanta. Emory University Fred R. Crawford Witness to the
       Holocaust Project Emory University Atlanta, GA 30322
       Tel: (404)  329-6428  AREAS OF INTEREST: The Project
       collects oral, video, and written testimony of witnesses to
       the German concentration camps of World War II, principally
       American soldiers liberating the camps, medical personnel,
       relief workers, and the press.  HOLDINGS: 110 transcripts of
       oral interviews of American liberators of German
       concentration camps; about 300 photographs of over 20
       concentration camps; library of about 200 volumes; subject
       file on the Jewish Holocaust covering about 50 related
       topics.  PUBLICATIONS: Emory Studies on the Holocaust;
       Dachau; KZ: A Pictorial Report from Five Concentration
       Camps; In the Shadow of the Flames: Six Lectures on the
       Holocaust.  A publications pricelist is available.
       INFORMATION SERVICES: Answers inquiries; provides
       information on research in progress; distributes
       publications; makes referrals to other sources of
       information; permits onsite use of collections.  Except for
       publications, services are free and all are available to
       anyone.
    3. Berkeley. Judah L. Magnes Memorial Museum Western Jewish
       History Center Judah L. Magnes Memorial Museum 2911 Russell
       St. Berkeley, CA 94705                               Tel:
       (415)  849-2710  AREAS OF INTEREST: History of Jewish
       individuals, businesses, institutions, and organizations in
       the Western United States.  HOLDINGS: Manuscripts and
       printed sources documenting Western United States Jewish
       history; about 12,000 photographs; oral histories;
       periodicals; tapes; microfiche; microfilm.  PUBLICATIONS:
       Guide to Archival and Oral History Collections; books,
       journal articles, bibliographies, directories.  A
       publications list is available.  INFORMATION SERVICES:
       Answers inquiries; provides reference, reproduction, and
       microform services; makes interlibrary loans of books only;
       sponsors seminars and workshops; makes referrals to other
       sources of information; permits onsite use of collections.
       Publications, reproductions, and extensive reference
       services are subject to a fee; other services are free.  All
       are available to anyone.
    4. Cincinnati. Hebrew Union College American Jewish Archives
       Hebrew Union College 3101 Clifton Ave. Cincinnati, OH 45220
       Tel: (513)  221-1875  AREAS OF INTEREST: Jewish life and
       history in the Western Hemisphere.  HOLDINGS: The Archives
       houses manuscript materials, predominately, but not
       exclusively, from North American sources, some of them
       dating back to the late 16th century.  There are some 8
       million pages of material, in addition to newspaper and
       periodical clippings, pamphlets, brochures, and photos.
       Languages represented include English, Hebrew, Yiddish,
       German, Spanish, French, Ladino, Portuguese, and Dutch.
       PUBLICATIONS: American Jewish Archives (semiannual
       historical journal); The Manuscript Catalog of the American
       Jewish Archives (1977, 5 vols., published by G.K. Hall &
       Co., Boston); occasional monographs and brochures.
       INFORMATION SERVICES: Most of the material may be studied in
       the Archives. Services include limited literature searches,
       limited answers to inquiries, referral to other sources of
       information, and authentication of documents.  An hourly fee
       is charged for services requiring more than an hour of staff
       time. A copying service is also available, and translators
       can be recommended for foreign language materials.
    5. Denver. University of Denver Center for Judaic Studies
       University of Denver Denver, CO 80208
       Tel: (303)  753-2068  The Center has received grants from
       the Jewish Culture Foundation of the University of Denver,
       the National Foundation for Jewish Culture, the Phillips
       Foundation, the Hebrew Culture Foundation, the United
       Methodist Church Board of Higher Education, the Beaumont
       Foundation, the Allied Jewish Federation of Denver, and from
       numerous private foundations and individuals.  AREAS OF
       INTEREST: History of Judaism, the Jews, and Israel; Biblical
       studies; American judaism; Jewish life, institutions, and
       services in the Rocky Mountain region; Hebrew language and
       literature; the Holocaust, interfaith studies; Jewish social
       ethics.  HOLDINGS: The Ira M. Beck Memorial Archives of
       Rocky Mountain Jewish History contains newspapers,
       manuscripts, private papers, pictorial and oral histories,
       memorabilia, and documents reflecting the history of
       organizations and businesses, and the lives of individuals
       who have contributed to the building of Jewish life in the
       area.  The Solomon Shwayder Memorial Library in Hebraic
       Studies contains over 12,000 volumes.  PUBLICATIONS: Rocky
       Mountain Jewish Historical Notes (quarterly); books,
       reprints, sound filmstrip.  A publications list is
       available.  INFORMATION SERVICES: Answers inquiries;
       provides advisory, copying, and microform services; conducts
       courses, conferences, symposia, and weekend retreats;
       distributes publications and data compilations; maintains a
       speakers bureau; makes referrals to other sources of
       information; provides demographic research services to
       community agencies; permits onsite use of collections.
       Services may be subject to a fee and are available to
       anyone.
    6. LA. Friends of Le Chambon, Inc. 8033 Sunset Blvd., Room 784
       Los Angeles, CA 90046                            Tel: (213)
       650-1774  AREAS OF INTEREST: Holocaust studies; non-Jewish
       rescuers of Jewish refugees from German persecution.
       HOLDINGS: Documents and photographs relating to the above
       areas.  PUBLICATIONS: Journal articles; bibliographies;
       reprints.  INFORMATION SERVICES: Answers inquiries; provides
       advisory and reference services; evaluates data; conducts
       seminars and workshops; distributes publications; makes
       referrals to other sources of information; permits onsite
       use of collections.  Services may be subject to fees and all
       are available to anyone.
    7. LA. Yeshiva University of Los Angeles Simon Wiesenthal
       Center Yeshiva University of Los Angeles 9760 West Pico
       Blvd. Los Angeles, CA 90035  Tel: (213)  553-9036 or
       553-4478  AREAS OF INTEREST: Jewish history, identity,
       religion, heritage, philosophy, life, and law;
       anti-Semitism; the Bible; the Talmud; holocaust studies.
       HOLDINGS: Collections of books, periodicals, artifacts,
       archives (including film and photo), oral histories,
       pamphlets, and media materials; access to the NEXIS
       computerized data base and the AP wire service.
       PUBLICATIONS: Response (quarterly magazine); Simon
       Wiesenthal Center annual; Simon Wiesenthal Monograph Series;
       Page One (syndicated radio magazine).  INFORMATION SERVICES:
       Answers inquiries or refers inquirers to other sources of
       information; provides advisory, reference,
       literature-searching, and current-awareness services;
       provides reproduction services for fee; conducts seminars;
       lends materials (with some limitations; nonmembers may leave
       a refundable deposit); permits onsite use of collections.
       Most services are available to anyone.
    8. Montreal. Canadian Jewish Congress National Archives
       Canadian Jewish Congress 1590 Avenue Docteur Penfield
       Montreal, Quebec, CANADA H3G 1C5                 Tel: (514)
       931-7531  AREAS OF INTEREST: All aspects and concerns of the
       Jewish community in Canada, including immigration,
       integration into Canadian society, Jewish identity,
       community organization, religious practice, Zionism,
       discrimination, oppressed Jewry in foreign countries,
       politics, business, literature, education, and youth.
       HOLDINGS: Manuscript collections, monographs, periodicals,
       journals, scrapbooks, pamphlets, sound tapes, microfilms,
       photographs, memorabilia.  PUBLICATIONS: Canadian Jewish
       Archives (monograph series); Clouds in the Thirties, on
       Anti-Semitism in Canada, 1929-1939 (13-vol. series).  A
       publications pricelist is available. INFORMATION SERVICES:
       Answers inquiries; provides advisory, reference, and
       reproduction services; provides computer data base searches
       upon request; distributes publications; makes referrals to
       other sources of information; permits onsite use of
       collections by appointment.  Except for reproductions and
       publications, services are free and all are available to
       anyone.
    9. NYC. American Jewish Committee (AJC) Blaustein Library
       American Jewish Committee 165 East 56th St. New York, NY
       10022                               Tel: (212)  751-4000  A
       nonprofit organization, AJC is the American pioneer human
       relations organization founded in 1906.  It combats bigotry,
       protects the civil and religious rights of people in the
       United States and abroad, and advances the cause of improved
       human relations for all people everywhere.  AREAS OF
       INTEREST: Contemporary American Jewish communal affairs;
       Jewry; family; Jewish identity; intergroup relations; civil
       rights and civil liberties; interreligious relation; Jewish
       life in the Diaspora.  HOLDINGS: Archival collection of
       AJC's history; anti-Semitic materials, both American and
       foreign.  PUBLICATIONS: Recent Additions to the Library
       (quarterly); journal articles (about 8 a year).  AJC
       publishes Commentary (monthly journal), Present Tense
       (quarterly journal), American Jewish Yearbook, other books,
       journal articles, and reprints.  INFORMATION SERVICES:
       Answers inquiries; provides reference, literature-searching,
       abstracting, indexing, and reproduction services; makes
       referrals to other sources of information; permits onsite
       use of collections. Services are free, except for
       reproduction services, and available primarily for the
       staff, but others will be assisted.
   10. NYC. American Jewish Congress 15 East 84th St. New York, NY
       10028                               Tel: (212)  879-4500
       The Congress is a nonprofit organization.  AREAS OF
       INTEREST: All aspects of minority rights; church-state
       relations; religious freedom; Jewish rights around the
       world; Jews in Arab lands; Israel; Soviet Jewry; health
       care; the elderly; women's rights; constitutional freedoms;
       unemployment; cults; Jewish history and culture.  HOLDINGS:
       Materials on the areas above.  PUBLICATIONS: Congress
       Monthly; Judaism (quarterly journal); books, reports,
       critical reviews, research summaries, bibliographies,
       reprints.  INFORMATION SERVICES: Answers inquiries; provides
       advisory services; conducts seminars and workshops;
       evaluates data; distributes data compilations and
       publications; makes referrals to other sources of
       information; permits onsite use of collection.  Services are
       free, except for publications, and available to anyone.
   11. NYC. Jewish Museum 1109 Fifth Ave. New York, NY 10028
       Tel: (212)  860-1888  A nonprofit organization under the
       auspices of The Jewish Theological Seminary of America, the
       Museum is the main repository in the United States for arts
       and artifacts representing Jewish culture and the largest
       museum devoted to creating changing exhibitions relating to
       Jewish culture.  AREAS OF INTEREST: Jewish art life,
       culture, and history.  HOLDINGS: Collection of 15,000 works
       in all media, including of archaeology, numismastics, fine
       arts, and ethnography.  Subjects of permanent exhibits
       include the Holocaust; Biblical Archaeology from Iron Age
       and Second Temple periods; coins dating from the 6th century
       B.C.E. to modern times; medals of Jewish personalities and
       events of historical interest; extensive collection of
       textiles used in the home and synagogue; ceremonial objects,
       including those from the destroyed Danzig Jewish community;
       paintings, graphics, sculpture, and photographs illustrative
       of the Jewish experience; and ceremonial objects from around
       the world (shown in changing exhibits).  PUBLICATIONS:
       Quarterly newsletter and calendar of events; catalogs of
       Museum exhibits; limited edition graphics; posters;
       educational exhibition brochures and guides.  INFORMATION
       SERVICES: Answers inquiries; conducts tours of special
       exhibitions and permanent installations, lectures, film
       showings, and concerts; lends materials; makes referrals to
       other sources of information.  Special classes and programs
       for children are conducted by the Education Department.  The
       Museum Shop sells books, catalogs, posters, some adaptations
       of objects in the permanent collections, and other items of
       Jewish interest.
   12. NYC. Jewish Theological Seminary of America Library Jewish
       Theological Seminary of America 3080 Broadway New York, NY
       10027                               Tel: (212)  678-8080
       AREAS OF INTEREST: Religious education; Judaica; Rabbinics;
       history and sociology of the Jews; Israel; Hebrew language
       and literature; Bible; liturgy.  HOLDINGS: 270,000 volumes;
       715 periodical subscriptions; 10,000 manuscripts; 15,000
       rare books; archives; prints; access to OCLC.  PUBLICATIONS:
       New Acquisition List (monthly); Between the Lines
       (quarterly).  INFORMATION SERVICES: Answers inquiries;
       provides advisory, reference, and reproduction services;
       makes direct and interlibrary loans; permits onsite use of
       collection; searches DIALOG.  All services, except
       reproduction services, are free.  Direct loan services are
       limited to faculty, students, alumni, and members; other
       services are available to anyone.
   13. NYC. Leo Baeck Institute, Inc. (LBI) 129 East 73d St. New
       York, NY 10021                               Tel: (212)
       744-6400  Partially sponsored by the National Endowment for
       the Humanities, the National Endowment for the Arts, and
       various foundations, LBI is a research, study, and lecture
       center, library, archives, and museum concerned with the
       life and history of centuries-old German Jewry, including
       the life and history of other German-speaking Jewries, from
       the 18th century until its end in Nazi days. LBI works
       closely with the Leo Baeck Institutes in Jerusalem and
       London.  AREAS OF INTEREST: Literature, art, and history of
       German-speaking Jews.  HOLDINGS: 60,000-volume library; art
       collection of more than 100 oil paintings and 4,000 drawings
       and prints; archive of 2,500 collections, including literary
       estates, community documents, autographs, and genealogical
       material. The Catalog of the Archive is computerized.
       PUBLICATIONS: LBI News and Leo Baeck Institute Library and
       Archives News (both semiannual); Leo Baeck Institute
       Yearbook (29 vols. to date); Leo Baeck Institute Bulletin
       (68 issues); books, bibliographies.  A publications list is
       available.  INFORMATION SERVICES: Answers inquiries;
       provides reference, literature-searching, and duplication
       services; conducts lectures, faculty seminars, and artwork
       and archival rarity exhibits; makes interlibrary loans;
       distributes publications; makes referrals to other sources
       of information; permits onsite use of collections.  Services
       are free, except for duplication services, and available to
       anyone.
   14. NYC. National Foundation for Jewish Culture (NFJC) 330 7th
       Ave., 21st Floor New York, NY 10001
       Tel: (212)  629-0500  NFJC is a nonprofit organization.
       AREAS OF INTEREST: Doctoral dissertations and other studies
       related to Jewish life, literature, history, ethnic theater,
       ethnomusicology, libraries, archives, etc.  INFORMATION
       SERVICES: Provides consultation, guidance, and support to
       Jewish communities, organizations, educational and other
       institutions, and individuals for activities in the field of
       Jewish culture; awards fellowships and other grants to
       students preparing for careers in Jewish scholarship and to
       established scholars; makes awards for creative efforts in
       Jewish cultural arts and for Jewish programming in small and
       intermediate communities; encourages teaching of Jewish
       studies in colleges and universities; serves as a
       clearinghouse of information on American Jewish culture.
   15. NYC. World Federation of Bergen Belsen Associations P.O. Box
       232, Lenox Hill Station New York, NY 10021
       Tel: (212)  752-0600  AREAS OF INTEREST: Memorials and
       commemorations for the victims of the Jewish Holocaust of
       World War II; preservation of sites at the former Belsen
       death camps.  PUBLICATIONS: Bergen-Belsen Memorial Press;
       journal articles.  INFORMATION SERVICES: Answers inquiries;
       provides advisory, reference, literature-searching, and
       current-awareness services; evaluates and analyzes data;
       conducts seminars and workshops; distributes publications;
       makes referrals to other sources of information.  Services
       are available free to anyone.
   16. NYC. YIVO Institute for Jewish Research 1048 Fifth Ave. New
       York, NY 10028                               Tel: (212)
       535-6700  An institution devoted to the study of Jewish
       life, past and present, the YIVO Institute's activities
       include maintaining a library and archives; research
       projects; the training of younger scholars; exhibits;
       publications; and public programs and conferences.  AREAS OF
       INTEREST: Jewish life and culture in Eastern Europe; the
       Holocaust; the period of Jewish mass settlement in the
       United States and other countries; Yiddish language,
       literature, theatre, and folklore.  HOLDINGS: Over 22
       million archival items, including letters, documents,
       photographs, manuscripts, and organizational records; over
       300,000 volumes, including rare books and periodicals; a
       photographic collection of about 100,000 items; immigration
       records comprising over 3 million pages; a Yiddish theater
       collection that includes manuscripts, correspondence,
       programs, photographs, sheet music, and other memorabilia;
       slide bank; art collection; PUBLICATIONS: YIVO Annual of
       Jewish Social Science; YIVO-bleter; Yidishe shprakh ; News
       of the YIVO; books, monographs.  A list of currently
       available publications is available.  INFORMATION SERVICES:
       Provides consulting, genealogical research, and reference
       services; answers inquiries or makes referrals to other
       institutions.  Limited bibliographic service is provided
       free, but there is a charge for extensive research.
       Photocopies, microfilm, and reproductions of photographs may
       be purchased.
   17. NYC City University of New York Graduate School and
       University Center Jack P. Eisner Institute for Holocaust
       Studies Graduate School and University Center, CUNY 33 West
       42d St., Room 1450 New York, NY 10036
       Tel: (212)  790-4517  The Institute is sponsored by the
       Holocaust Survivors Memorial Foundation.  AREAS OF INTEREST:
       Teaching, research, and scholarship programs in Holocaust
       studies; inservice education for teachers in Holocaust
       studies.  HOLDINGS: Videotapes of Holocaust survivors;
       videotapes of seminars and lectures on Holocaust studies;
       unique archival collection of documents pertaining to the
       Holocaust in Hungary.  PUBLICATIONS: Perspectives on the
       Holocaust; Contemporary Views on the Holocaust; Genocide and
       Retribution: The Holocaust in Hungarian-ruled Northern
       Transylvania; The Hungarian Jewish Catastrophe: A Selected
       and Annotated Bibliography; Jewish Leadership During the
       Nazi Era: Patterns of Behavior in the Free World; The
       Holocaust in Hungary--40 Years Later (1985); The Origins of
       the Holocaust Christian Anti-Semitism (1986); The Halutz
       Resistance in Hungary, l942-l944 (1986 Depositions); The
       Tragedy of Hungarian Jewry: Essays, Documents (1986); The
       Treatment of the Holocaust in Textbooks (1987).  INFORMATION
       SERVICES: Answers inquiries; provides advisory and
       consulting services; conducts seminars and lectures; makes
       referrals to other sources of information.  Formal courses
       are restricted to junior high and high school teachers and
       service personnel.  Public lectures and information services
       are free to all.
   18. Washington.  African and Middle Eastern Division Hebraic
       Section African and Middle Eastern Division Libary of
       Congress 10 First St. SE. Washington, DC 20540
       Tel: (202)  707-5422  Hours: 8:30 a.m.-5 p.m. Mon.-Fri.;
       closed Sat., Sun., and holidays.  AREAS OF INTEREST: Israel;
       Jews and Judaism in all parts of the world; Jewish history;
       the Bible; Hebrew, Yiddish, and Amharic literature; ancient
       Middle East, its Semitic cultures and languages; Zionism;
       anti-Semitism; Holocaust.  HOLDINGS: Collections on areas of
       interest primarily in Hebrew, with additional holdings in
       Yiddish, Aramaic, Syriac, Amharic, and cognate languages;
       reference and bibliographic tools, including national union
       catalogs of Hebraica and Yiddica, recording the holdings of
       all major American collections. INFORMATION SERVICES:
       Answers inquiries; makes referrals; provides reference and
       bibliographic services.  Special reference materials are
       available for onsite use only.
[this list may be freely copied & circulated; please cite HOLOCAUS@uicvm]
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 2 Jun 1993 15:07:23 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         HOPKINSD@EWC.BITNET
Subject:      Teaching the Holocaust

I thought folks might be interested in knowing that in the May-June issue
of the Horn Book (which reviews children's literature) there is a personal
essay of one teacher's experience of working with a high school class to
teach about the Holocaust.  If there are any teachers on the list you might
find it interesting.

D. Hopkinson
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 3 Jun 1993 09:05:29 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         "Seth L. Ness" 
Subject:      dominican republic
In-Reply-To:  <199306022010.AA25323@alsys1.aecom.yu.edu>

hi,
does anybody have information about, or can give me reference to look for
about jewish refugees in the dominican republic during the holocaust. my
grandfather was one of them and i'd like to know more. thanks.



Seth L. Ness                         Ness Gadol Hayah Sham
ness@aecom.yu.edu
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 3 Jun 1993 11:54:11 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Daniel Burstein 
Subject:      anyone hear of the "gottsheer" group?
In-Reply-To:  <199306031408.AA22895@sun.Panix.Com>

A reporter friend of mine noted that there one of the groups in the
(former) Yugoslavia is a faction in the civil war there, and has been
making references to how they were involved in the fighting during World
War two.

The group's name is the "gottscheer," and apparently they were on the
receiveing end of some nastiness by the Slovinians during the war.

We can't find any info on them, and were wondering if the name rings any
sort of bells to the people on this List.

thanks

dannyb@panix.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 3 Jun 1993 11:55:10 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         "David Hirsch, Bibliographers Group" 
Subject:      (COPY) ORION BIBLIOGRAPHY

In response to Seth Ness' question, there are at least a couple of books about
 the Jewish community in the Dominican Republic, which at its peak probably
 numbered a little over a thousand. The two references below refer to a Jewish
 agricultural colony in Sosua, Dominican Republic. A small community still
 exists there, as well as in Santo Domingo.

 Both of these items are held at UCLA and can be obtained via Interlibrary
 Loan.

 Hyman Kisch wrote a thesis entitled: The Jewish Settlement from Central
 Europe in the Dominican Republic. Jewish Theological Seminary, 1970.

 You may be able to obtain this from another source. Good luck.

                                                David Hirsch



                                                        ORION Number: 3492210MC
        Author:  Eichen, Josef David.
         Title:  Sosua, una colonia hebrea en la Republica Dominicana / Josef
                   David Eichen.

     Published:  Santiago, Republica Dominicana : Universidad Catolica Madre y
                   Maestra, Departamento de Publicaciones, 1980.
   Description:  126 p. : ill., ports. ; 22 cm.
        Series:  Coleccion Estudios (Universidad Catolica Madre y Maestra) ;
                   54.

    Subject(s):  Jews--Dominican Republic--Sosua--History.
                 Jews--Colonization--Dominican Republic--Sosua.
                 Refugees, Jewish--Dominican Republic--Sosua.
                 Sosua (Dominican Republic)--Ethnic relations.

LIBRARY:  URL                 Call number:  F 1941 J4 E37 1980
 Status:  Checked Out -- Due 08/27/93.


                                                        ORION Number: 4453894MC
        Author:  Kaetsch, Siegfried.
         Title:  Sosua, verheissenes Land. Eine Dokumentation zu
                   Adaptionsproblemen deutsch-juedischer Siedler in der
                   Dominikanischen Republik. [Von] Siegfried Kaetsch [und] Elke-
                   Maria Kaetsch.  Unter Mitarb. von Henry P[hilip] David.
                   (Red. durch das Sekretariat des Forschungsschwerpunkts
                   Lateinamerika der Univ. Bielefeld.)

     Published:  Dortmund (Univ. Muenster, Sozialforschungsstelle,
                   Kontaktprogramm zur Sozialwissenschaftlichen Forschung in
                   Latein-Amerika) 1970.
   Description:  297 p. 21 cm.
        Series:  Arbeitsunterlage zur Lateinamerikaforschung, 38/39

    Subject(s):  Jews in Sosua, Dominican Republic.
                 Land settlement--Sosua, Dominican Republic.
                 Refugees, Jewish.
   Other Names:  Kaetsch, Elke Maria, joint author.
                 David, Henry Philip, 1923- joint author.
         Notes:  Bibliography: p. 279-280.

LIBRARY:  URL                 Call number:  F 1401 A666 no.38-39
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 3 Jun 1993 22:44:27 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         "Kenneth.Waltzer" <21409MGR@msu.edu>
Subject:      Jewish Underground in Poland

    I am writing on American Jewish Labor's Response to the Holocaust.  A
piece of this concerns aid sent through the Polish Gov't in Exile to Poland to
the Jewish Underground to dispense to Jews in hiding, 1943-44.  Can anyone
direct me to survivors or to memoirs concerning Jews in hiding who were served
by such aid distributed by couriers of the Jewish Underground.  I have
interviewed Vladka Meed and read her memoir.  Meed was a courier On The Other
Side of the Wall.  Can anyone suggest additional sources? leads?
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 3 Jun 1993 22:53:17 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Sam Silverman 
Subject:      Dominican Republic

On refugee settlement in the Dominican Republic see also
"Refugee Settlement in the Dominican Republic: A survey
conducted under the auspices of the Brookings Institution"
Washington, DC: The Brookings Institution, 1942. It contains
a chapter on the Sosua colony.

Sam Silverman
SILVERSA@BCVMS
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 3 Jun 1993 23:00:40 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         LC0380@ALBNYVMS.BITNET
Subject:      Holocaust Denial

The following is a reprint of an article that appeared in the June 3, 1993
issue of "The Jewish World," a weekly newspaper from Albany, New York.
The article reviews the recently-published book from the American
Jewish Committee, "Holocaust Denial" written by Kenneth Stern. Many
interesting ideas are covered, and it seemed well worthwhile to post a
review on this very disturbing topic. The article (which has no author
attribution) is reprinted without permission.

I'd be very interested in follow-up comments.

This has been posted to:

     Progressive Jewish Mailing List [PJML@utxvm]
     Holocaust List [HOLOCAUS@uicvm]

My apologies to people on both lists who will receive this file twice.


Laura Cohen

lc0380@albnyvms.bitnet



NEW YORK CITY - Denial of the Holocaust is the newest anti-Semitic lie.
As witnesses to the Nazi genocide of the Jews die, and new generations are
born, this canard has the potential to become a mainstay of 21st century
anti-Semitism. A significant number of people are already open to the claim
that the Holocaust never occurred, that Jews simply made it up.
     Holocaust denial is the focus of a recently released 193-page American
Jewish Committee book entitled "Holocaust Denial," written by Kenneth
Stern, AJC program specialist on anti-Semitism and extremism. In the
book's four chapters, Stern not only exposes the promoters and supporters
of Holocaust denial, but also looks at political and historical factors that
help define long-term plans to combat it.
     Stern stresses that Holocaust denial, promoted by anti-Semitic and
neo-Nazi groups such as the Institute for Historical Review and others, is a
growth industry that must not be dismissed as the rantings of lunatics.
Rather, it must be seen as the newest addendum to the lies that have
historically fueled anti-Semitism, in line with the claims that the Jews
poisoned wells, killed Christ, or are part of a worldwide conspiracy.
     Holocaust denial, Stern adds, is doubly troubling because it is
presented not as crass Jew-hatred, but as reasonable sounding pseudo-
science and pseudo-history frequently written by people with doctorates.
Deniers, or "revisionists," as they cynically refer to themselves, distort the
minutiae and details of the Holocaust, such as the workings of the gas
chambers or the number of Jews killed or the Nuremberg trials or Hitler's
intentions, to claim that there was no policy to exterminate Jews during
World War II. A surprising number of people around the world are open to
these bizarre, but made-to-appear-rational claims.
     Stern writes that deniers--whose claims have appeared in the
classroom, on college campuses, in politics, in libraries, on computers, and
in the media--must not be debated, as debate gives them the undeserved
legitimacy they crave. Rather, he argues, their neo-Nazi agendas and
historical distortions must be exposed. Historians and educational
leadership, such as university presidents, have key roles to play in
countering the deniers' handiwork, which frequently includes the offering of
Holocaust-denying advertisements to student newspapers.
     Most people, however, will not learn of Holocaust denial in school or
through denying literature; they will learn of it through the media. For
radio and television--media that need spicy topics to drive up ratings--
Holocaust denial certainly generates heat. Deniers are prepared with a
reservoir of facts, half-facts, quarter-facts, and outright lies to counter any
talk-show host--for what talk show personality can spend the hours of
research necessary to expose the deniers' reasonable sounding lies? Another
problem is that the people that can appear on these programs to expose the
deniers are left in a quandary: if they do not appear with them, the lies
are unchallenged; and worse, if they do confront them, the deniers'
credibility is enhanced and there becomes a "debate" between "opposing
theories," which is exactly what they seek.
     In a political arena, Stern continues, two presidential candidates in
1992 espoused Holocaust denial, one (David Duke) fully, one (Patrick
Buchanan) partly. "The troubling thing is that when Holocaust denial has
appeared in national politics, it has been seen as quirkiness, not
hatred...While no one from a major party has campaigned on a platform of
Holocaust denial, the votes of millions of Americans say that this form of
anti-Semitism is no big deal. If a candidate is attractive for other reasons,
denial of a recent major historical tragedy involving Jews will be
overlooked rather than seen as an irreparable character defect."
     In the book's second chapter, Stern looks at the patterns and
purveyors of Holocaust denial around the world, including in Germany,
Britain, France, Austria, Belgium, Sweden, Switzerland, Italy, Spain,
Romania, Ukraine, former Yugoslavia, Poland, Slovakia, Russia, Argentina,
Brazil, Chile, Venezuela, Mexico, Peru, South Africa, Australia, New
Zealand, Canada, Japan, and Arab nations.
     Stern stresses the growth of Holocaust denial in Europe, and especially
Eastern Europe, in the aftermath of the fall of Communism. In many areas
the Nazi puppet states were the last non-Communist governments, and are
being rehabilitated. To make these states symbols of a reclaimed nationalism
requires a rewriting of Nazism. And, Stern asserts, among the far-right
anti-Semitic groups in Europe today, Holocaust denial is the "ideological
glue."
     Hatred for Israel appears prominently in Holocaust denial literature,
writes Stern. "Deniers integrally link Holocaust denial with anti-Israel
propaganda, for if the Holocaust is a 'hoax,' as they suggest, then one of
the justifications for a Jewish State is undermined. Holocaust denial not
only attacks Jewish history, its inherent anti-Zionism also targets the
Jewish present and the Jewish future."
     In the book's third chapter, Stern debunks the Holocaust deniers'
claims by methodically exposing their scientific, factual, and historical
distortions.
     In the final chapter, Stern analyzes the multi-faceted ways in which
people and institutions can fight Holocaust denial in the long run, including
through Holocaust education, speakers, memorials, museums, movies,
articles, and books. "All are essential," he says, "but not sufficient."
     "We can, and we must, combat Holocaust denial as a falsehood, as
hatred, and as a form of politics," Stern stresses. "If we want to be
effective, rather than just feel righteous or 'correct,' we have to have a
sophisticated strategy. Jews have to work with other groups, building
common lessons from the human tragedy of genocide. We have to exert
political power, demanding that our institutions develop effective means to
combat intergroup hatred. We must demand that government create
incentives for local institutions to fight bigotry on a day-in, day-out,
unremarkable basis. Memory, or logic, or knowledge, or goodwill, by
themselves, cannot conquer societal hate. Holocaust deniers count on that.
     "Holocaust denial is a problem with many dimensions," Stern
concludes. "It is part anti-Semitism, part anti-history, part anti-authority,
part anti-democracy. Like all forms of hatred, and all ideologies that
promote or apologize for fascism, it must not be dismissed as either
something 'silly' or as something to be combatted with platitudes or
incantations of 'the truth.' It must be fought as hatred, as ignorance, and
as ideology."
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 4 Jun 1993 09:39:25 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Judith Turner 
Subject:      Where it starts

  I was in Los Angeles last week, and caught an
  early-morning ad on one of those gospel shows
  about a video-toon Life of Jesus.

  One thing caught my attention: They talked about
  and dramatized how Herod ordered all the Jewish
  boy babies killed, and how it was a miracle that
  Jesus was saved.

  And they claimed to be Biblically accurate.

  I'm no scholar of the New Testament, but I wonder
  if this isn't a) untrue, and b) a good grounding
  for future anti-Semites.

  Comments anyone?

      --Judith Turner
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 4 Jun 1993 13:22:53 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Simon Wiesenthal Center Library/Archives 
Subject:      Re:  H-Net Guide to Holocaust & Judaica Libraries

Here is a revised listing for the Simon Wiesenthal Center

Paul H. Hamburg
Reference Librarian


7. LA. Simon Wiesenthal Center Library/Archives and Beit
Hashoah ) Museum of Tolerance. 9760 West Pico Blvd. Los Angeles,
CA 90035  Tel: (310) 553-9036; Fax: (310) 553)8659; E)mail:
simonwie@class.org.

AREAS OF INTEREST: Holocaust studies; anti-Semitism; Jewish
history, identity, religion, heritage, philosophy, life, and law;
racism and extremism; ethnic studies.

HOLDINGS: Books, periodicals, artifacts, and momorabilia; photo,
film and video collections; oral histories; victim and survivor
documentation; media materials; access to the NEXIS
computerized data base and the AP wire service.

PUBLICATIONS: Response (quarterly magazine); Simon
Wiesenthal Center annual (vols. 1)7); Simon Wiesenthal Monograph
Series; Dignity and Defiance: The Confrontation of Life and Death
in the Warsaw Ghetto; Publication list available on request;
Page One (syndicated radio magazine).

INFORMATION SERVICES: The Library/Archives answers inquiries or
refers patrons to other sources of information; provides
reference, literature-searching, and other bibliographical
services; provides reproduction services for fee; conducts
seminars; lends materials (with some limitations; nonmembers may
leave a refundable deposit); permits onsite use of collections.

   .
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 4 Jun 1993 14:23:07 -0500
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Jim Mott 
Subject:      Announcing HNSERVER (fwd)

From: Lynn Nelson 
ANNOUNCING HNSERVER

HNServer is an information server located at telnet
history.cc.ukans.edu login: history. Thse who prefer gopher
access may reach HNServer through gopher TISL.ukans.edu HNServer
is maintained by Academic Computer Services and the History
Department of the University of Kansas and, under the auspices of
the History Network, has been given the task of serving as the
central information server for the international community of
historians.


An information server is an electronic installation that provides
lists, called "menus", of other electronic sites, allows users to
select those in which they are interested, and switches users
automatically to the site selected. Such sites include library
catalogues; data bases; full texts of books, articles, reviews,
reference works, computer software, and other materials; graphic
image collections; professional news; national and local weather
reports; telephone and electronic address books; university news
services; electronic journals; and much more. Users may retrieve
electronically whatever material they wish from thse sites, free
> of charge.

HNServer currently has connections to over two hundred library
catalogues worldwide; data bases in Kansas, Ohio, Minnesota,
Mississipi, Missouri, Illinois, Washington DC, Australia, Canada,
the Netherlands, and the United Nations, as well as connections
to other information servers that provide the user with still
more additional connections. Several Usenet usergroups of
interest to historians are presently on-line and more are being
added. Electronic journals include CLIONET (Australia), Colegios,
EconHist, REACH, and the Bryn Mawr Classical Review, and the
holding of GHETA, the Netherlands respository of historical
journals. Johns Hopkins Press pre-publication articles are now
available, as well as the US National Archives catalogue of
available files and the Library of Congress Information Files.

Cooperative plans are underway to establish connections between
HNServer and the Institute of Historical Research of the
University of London, Carlisle Barracks' Center for Military
History, and planned national storage sites for historical data
in Germany and Canada.

The operators of HNServer are continuing to search for other
useful sites, and historians in various parts of the world have
been stimulated by the existence of a central server to begin to
establish new sites in which to collect historical materials.

 Lynn Nelson
 LHNELSON@UKANVM
 lhnelson@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 7 Jun 1993 08:44:23 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         "D. Andrew Kille" 
Subject:      Re: Where it starts
In-Reply-To:  <9306041439.AA01830@mail.netcom.com>; from "Judith Turner" at Jun
              4, 93 9:39 am

>
>   I was in Los Angeles last week, and caught an
>   early-morning ad on one of those gospel shows
>   about a video-toon Life of Jesus.
>
>   One thing caught my attention: They talked about
>   and dramatized how Herod ordered all the Jewish
>   boy babies killed, and how it was a miracle that
>   Jesus was saved.
>
>   And they claimed to be Biblically accurate.
>
>   I'm no scholar of the New Testament, but I wonder
>   if this isn't a) untrue, and b) a good grounding
>   for future anti-Semites.
>
>   Comments anyone?
>
>       --Judith Turner
>
A couple quick notes.  First, the story of Herod's slaughter of the
innocents _is_ in the book of Matthew (2:16-17).  Secondly, in the book
it is clear that it is Herod, and not the Jewish people who are the
threat (after Herod's death, Jesus' family is safe to return from
hiding out in Egypt).  Thirdly, historians have found no evidence for any
such slaughter (of all male children under the age of 2) in Bethlehem or
anywhere else during Herod's reign. Fourthly, Herod was no prize- even if
he didn't order the murder of a village's children, he _did_ manage to
kill off most of his own family and anyone else who got in his way.  The
story, if not historically accurate, is within the bounds of Herod's known
methods. Fifthly, there are other more troubling passages in the NT for
grounding future anti-Semites.  One would have already to be a sloppy and
biased reader to extend Herod's guilt (historical or not) to the people who
were the objects of his terror.


--
*********************************
(The Rev.) D. Andrew Kille
Graduate Theological Union, Berkeley, CA
VOCATUS ATQUE NON VOCATUS, DEUS ADERIT.
********************************
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 7 Jun 1993 08:45:28 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Cecelia A Clancy 
Subject:      Re: dominican republic
In-Reply-To:  

On Thu, 3 Jun 1993, Seth L. Ness wrote:

> hi,
> does anybody have information about, or can give me reference to look for
> about jewish refugees in the dominican republic during the holocaust. my
> grandfather was one of them and i'd like to know more. thanks.
>
>
>
> Seth L. Ness                         Ness Gadol Hayah Sham
> ness@aecom.yu.edu


The first thing that pops into my mind is David Wyman's _Paper
Walls_, which covers the 1930's, and which is * NOT * duplicated
in his later work, _Abanndonment of the Jews_, which covers the
1940's.     _Paper Walls_, even though I think it is more important
and more groundbreaking than _Abandonment_, does not get as much
"promoted".      (To what extent is this explained by some people
out there in the general public finding the 1940's "more exciting"
and even "more titillating" than the 1930's in this regard - thereby
causing the book trade to push it more in caterance to the public whim,
however "unadmitable" that whim might be????)      _Paper Walls_,
unfortunately, has been so "ignored", that it is now out of print.

But I DO think I remember seeing material about the Domenican Republic
in _Paper Walls_.      I will check to make sure and will post later of
what exactly is in there.



--  Cecelia    muller+@pitt.edu
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 7 Jun 1993 12:59:03 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Cecelia A Clancy 
Subject:      Re: (COPY) ORION BIBLIOGRAPHY
In-Reply-To:  

On Thu, 3 Jun 1993, David Hirsch, Bibliographers Group wrote:

> In response to Seth Ness' question, there are at least a couple of books about
>  the Jewish community in the Dominican Republic, which at its peak probably
>  numbered a little over a thousand. The two references below refer to a Jewish
>  agricultural colony in Sosua, Dominican Republic. A small community still
>  exists there, as well as in Santo Domingo.
>  Both of these items are held at UCLA and can be obtained via Interlibrary
>  Loan.

Pero una de las referencias esta escrito en espan^ol und die andere ist
auf Deutsch geschrieben!     [But one of the references is in Spanish
and the other is in German!]      Can Seth read one or both of these
languages?

I can help you on either language, Seth, if you would like.    I think
the material in those books would be worth enough to you for you to
not let language barriers stand in your way.


>  Hyman Kisch wrote a thesis entitled: The Jewish Settlement from Central
>  Europe in the Dominican Republic. Jewish Theological Seminary, 1970.
>  You may be able to obtain this from another source. Good luck.

I can find out the sources from which Seth can obtain this.     At
very least, he could most likely purchace a microfilm of it from an
establishment in Ann Arbor, Michigan which specializes in the
microfilming and sale of theses.     More later.


--  Cecelia
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 7 Jun 1993 13:01:38 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Bea Cohen 
Subject:      Shtetl help needed

I hope someone on this discussion group can help me.  My father's family
came from Kulczyce Szlacheckie, Galicia Poland (now Kulchitsy, Ukraine).
It was (is) a small shtetl just east of Sambor. The last time my father
heard from his family was in 1939. The family surnames were LEITER and
LEDER.

I have been searching for reference material which would tell me what
happened to the shtetl during the German/Russian/German occupation of WW
II without any luck.  Can anyone suggest any reference material that is
available.  Any help would be appreciated...... Bea Cohen
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 7 Jun 1993 13:03:04 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Cecelia A Clancy 
Subject:      Sousa Settlement in the Dominican Republic
In-Reply-To:  

Dear Seth,

>  David Hirsch wrote:
>
>  Hyman Kisch wrote a thesis entitled: The Jewish Settlement from Central
>  Europe in the Dominican Republic. Jewish Theological Seminary, 1970.
>
>  You may be able to obtain this from another source. Good luck.


I could not find this in _Dissertation Abstracts_.    Apparantly it
is a Master's Theses (and therefore the esdtablishment in Ann Arbor
probably does NOT have it).

But try the Jewish Theological Seminary directly.    The library
(or the Department under which Kisch did his work) probably
has a copy.     There was a fire at the JTS library in 1966, so
thank goodness this thesis was done AFTER that!


         Louis S. Brush Memorial Library
         Jewish Thoelogical Seminary
         3080 Broadway
         New York, NY 10027


A general phone number for the JTS is (212) 749-8000

Good luck again,


--  Cecelia.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 7 Jun 1993 13:04:36 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         GINO_PESCE@cpsnet2.cps.edu
Subject:      Anti-semitism

As a practicing Christian, I would like to comment on your fear that
Herod's edict is a breeding ground for anti- semitism. Yes the New
Testament does relate the story of Herod and Jesus' escape from his
death call. I have never been taught or in any way, shape or form been
influenced in my church or any other TRUE christian setting to be
anti-semitic. In fact as I study the Old Testament and the life of Jesus
I can relate to the Jewish nation because of their historical
significance as related to our Messiah. While Christ wasn't a legalistic
Jew, He was very much a Jew and loved His people. Any Christian who
teaches anti-semitism, using the Bible as a tool is NOT A CHRISTIAN. I
hope the love of Christ is what we can express to all of our brothers
and sisters on this planet. After all Jesus died for ALL men and women.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 7 Jun 1993 13:05:53 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Dov Winer 
Subject:      Re: Jewish Underground in Poland
In-Reply-To:  Message of Thu, 3 Jun 1993 22:44:27 CDT from <21409MGR@msu.edu>

Shalom,

Sorry but I have no information to give you. If you are working in this
area would you possibly recommend a good history of the Bund ? In the
last Yom HaShoah here in Israel an argument was made that there is no
such book (only the victorious sections of the Jewish movements have a
good historiography - that was the argument).
Best regards,
Dov

Dov Winer
Ben Gurion University
Internet : viner at bguvm.bgu.ac.il
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 7 Jun 1993 13:29:15 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         "Michel Eytan, LILoL" 
Subject:      Re: Where it starts

At  9:39 4/06/93 -0500, Judith Turner wrote:
>  I was in Los Angeles last week, and caught an
>  early-morning ad on one of those gospel shows
>  about a video-toon Life of Jesus.
>
>  One thing caught my attention: They talked about
>  and dramatized how Herod ordered all the Jewish
>  boy babies killed, and how it was a miracle that
>  Jesus was saved.
>
>  And they claimed to be Biblically accurate.
>
>  I'm no scholar of the New Testament, but I wonder
>  if this isn't a) untrue, and b) a good grounding
>  for future anti-Semites.
>
>  Comments anyone?
>
>      --Judith Turner

Judith,

anti-semites don't need no good grounding, moreover the Romans were 1st
class anti-semites before even Jesus was born -- which is not meant to
disculpate the Church.

Dunno if this is the right place, but ever since as an 8-year old child I
experienced the Shoa I keep wondering Why???

 ~=michel
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 7 Jun 1993 13:30:38 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
Comments:     Warning -- original Sender: tag was HOLOCAUS@UICVM
From:         "D. Andrew Kille" 
Subject:      Re: Where it starts
In-Reply-To:  <9306041439.AA01830@mail.netcom.com>; from "Judith Turner" at Jun
              4, 93 9:39 am

>   I was in Los Angeles last week, and caught an
>   early-morning ad on one of those gospel shows
>   about a video-toon Life of Jesus.
>
>   One thing caught my attention: They talked about
>   and dramatized how Herod ordered all the Jewish
>   boy babies killed, and how it was a miracle that
>   Jesus was saved.
>
>   And they claimed to be Biblically accurate.
>
>   I'm no scholar of the New Testament, but I wonder
>   if this isn't a) untrue, and b) a good grounding
>   for future anti-Semites.
>
>   Comments anyone?
>
>       --Judith Turner
>
A couple quick notes.  First, the story of Herod's slaughter of the
innocents _is_ in the book of Matthew (2:16-17).  Secondly, in the book
it is clear that it is Herod, and not the Jewish people who are the
threat (after Herod's death, Jesus' family is safe to return from
hiding out in Egypt).  Thirdly, historians have found no evidence for any
such slaughter (of all male children under the age of 2) in Bethlehem or
anywhere else during Herod's reign. Fourthly, Herod was no prize- even if
he didn't order the murder of a village's children, he _did_ manage to
kill off most of his own family and anyone else who got in his way.  The
story, if not historically accurate, is within the bounds of Herod's known
methods. Fifthly, there are other more troubling passages in the NT for
grounding future anti-Semites.  One would have already to be a sloppy and
biased reader to extend Herod's guilt (historical or not) to the people who
were the objects of his terror.


--
*********************************
(The Rev.) D. Andrew Kille
Graduate Theological Union, Berkeley, CA
VOCATUS ATQUE NON VOCATUS, DEUS ADERIT.
********************************
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 8 Jun 1993 12:50:27 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         HANFTS@conrad.appstate.edu
Subject:      Re: Jewish Underground in Poland

Dov:
My work in ewish history is very parochial and focused on ews in the American
Southeast. I have taught several undergraduate courses on the Holocaust, the

that provided the basis for my earlier remarks, but the topic is ust one
that interests me as a Jew and i have no special expertese on it. I will
reviees the various bibliographies, journals and periodicals I used
to prepared for the course. Shoud I find any reference to a History or
analysis of the Bund, I'll e-mail it to you.  The only thing that comes
to mind in a reference in Steiner's book TRIBLENKA, a "docu-fiction"
which list a few hundred books, are a few personal accounts but nothing
systematic. As I said, if I find anything I'll send it to you.
Warmest regards,
Sheldon Hanft (Hanfts@Appstate.edu)
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 8 Jun 1993 12:51:29 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         RUEDNBRG@NYUACF.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Shtetl help needed

Date sent:  7-JUN-1993

To Bea Cohen:

I would reply privately but I can't figure out your address from your
posting.

The American Gathering of Jewish Holocaust survivors has a National Registry
database of survivors in North America. It can be searched by last name,
town before the war, place during the war. If you write to them, asking if
there are survivors from the town you are interested in, and enclosing a
letter to those individuals explaining your interest, they will forward
your letters, within reason. You can write to:

American Gathering
122 West 30th St. Room 205
New York, NY 10001

The National Registry was recently donated to the US Holocaust Memorial
Museum in Washington DC, so if you are there, you can also look at it yourself.
Addresses however are not public information.

Lucia

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Lucia Ruedenberg
New York University
Dep of Performance Studies
Email: ruednbrg@ACFcluster.NYU.EDU
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 8 Jun 1993 12:52:52 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Jeffrey A Shandler 
Subject:      Re: Shtetl help needed
In-Reply-To:  Your message of Mon, 7 Jun 1993 13:01:38 CDT

Contact the YIVO Institute, 1048 Fifth Avenue, NY NY 10028.  (212)
535-6700.  Ask for Zachary Baker, Head Librarian, or someone in the archives.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 8 Jun 1993 12:57:16 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         "Seth L. Ness" 
Subject:      dominican republic
In-Reply-To:  <199306072021.AA03902@alsys1.aecom.yu.edu>

i think i can easily get the thesis from JTS since i'm pretty close to it
and my sister goes to columbia now, and i'm an alumnus. i think i'll check
out all the english references before i try the spanish and german. thanks.



Seth L. Ness                         Ness Gadol Hayah Sham
ness@aecom.yu.edu
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 8 Jun 1993 13:46:25 CDT
Reply-To:     silversa@bcvms.bc.edu
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Sam Silverman 
Subject:      Re: Shtetl help needed

You might try looking at the Yizkor book for Sambor.
The bibliography in "From a ruined garden", Jack Kugelmass
and Jonathan Boyarin, Schocken Books, 1983, does not list
a Yizkor book for your father's town, but does list one
for Sambor. It has sections in Hebrew, Yiddish and English,
and was published in 1980. You might be able to get an
address for some of the committee who published it,or
perhaps for the Landsmanschaft, and they might have more
information on your father's town. Yizkor books are
available in several libraries. I use Brandeis, which claims
to have about 80% of those available. A more up to date
listing of Yizkor books can be found in "Genealogical
resources in the New York metropolitan area", edited by
Estelle Guzik, published by the Jewish Genealogical Society,
P.O. Box 6398, New York, NY 10128, 1989.

Sam Silverman
SILVERSA@BCVMS.BITNET
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 8 Jun 1993 13:49:18 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Louis de Groot 
Subject:      H-Net Guide to Holocaust & Judiaca Libraries

Subject:      Re:  H-Net Guide to Holocaust & Judaica Libraries



To: Multiple recipients of list HOLOCAUS







Here is a listing for the Holocaust Center of Northern California

Mrs. Barbara Harris Goodman, Executive Director

Mr. Barney Cohen, Archivist

Dr. Jacob Boas, Associate Director

Ms. Simone Schweber, Secondary Education Coordinator



The Holocaust Center of Northern California

mailing address: 639 14th Avenue, San Francisco, CA 94118

located at: 601 14th Avenue, San Francisco, CA 94118

Tel: (415) 751-6040; Fax: (415) 751-6735

Telephone Secondary Education Coordinator (415) 751-6041

E-mail:holo@kg6kf.ampr.org

Hours of Operation: S, M, W, 10 AM - 4 PM Pacific Time

                    Tu, Th,  12 PM - 8 PM Pacific Time



                    PURPOSE: The Holocaust Center of Northern California (HCNC)
   is dedicated to the

                    preservation of a past that must not be forgotten. The HCNC'
   s fundamental position is

                    that the facts must be known and must be remembered. The HCN
   C focuses on research

                    and education, in fulfillment of the testament left by the m
   artyrs of the Holocaust to its

                    survivors - to remember, to record, to understand, to explai
   n, and to enlighten future

                    generations.



                    AREAS OF INTEREST: Holocaust studies; anti-Semitism; Racism
   and extremism;

                    ethnic studies; Holocaust education; Teacher training for te
   aching the Holocaust,

                    High School Assembly programs.





                    HOLDINGS: Books, periodicals, artifacts; photo, film and vid
   eo collections; oral

                    histories audio as well as video; victim and survivor docume
   ntation; media

                    materials.



                    PUBLICATIONS: Yiskor books of the East European communities
   of Kobrin and

                    Kosow-Lacki; "The Holocaust and World War II", a 102 page, i
   llustrated

                    overview of Holocaust history intended as a textbook for tea
   chers.

                    "Kristalnacht: The Night of Shattered Glass", a 19 page book
   let ont the

                    1938 pogrom which signaled the beginning of the Nazi's plan
   to destroy

                    the European Jewish community. A film and video catalog espe
   cially aimed

                    at classroom showings, and a children and adult bibliography
    to assist

                    teachers in selecting recommended readings.



                    INFORMATION SERVICES: The Library does not lend materials bu
   t answers

                    inquiries or refers patrons to other sources of information.
    Within the

                    limitations of its staff it provides reference, literature-s
   earching, and

                    other bibliographical services; provides reproduction servic
   es for fee; conducts

                    seminars and book discussions; encourages onsite use of coll
   ections.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 8 Jun 1993 13:50:49 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         "Sam Edelman, Ph.D." 
Subject:      Re: Jewish Underground in Poland

To the person interested in the Jewish underground in Poland--please send me a
personal note and I shall try to share some sources with you.
sedelman@oavax.csuchico.edu
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 8 Jun 1993 13:51:45 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Daniel F Boyd 
Subject:      Anti-semitism
In-Reply-To:  <9306071807.AA17220@electra.cs.buffalo.edu>

GINO_PESCE@cpsnet2.cps.edu writes:
> Any Christian who teaches anti-semitism, using the Bible as a tool
> is NOT A CHRISTIAN.

Aha, the "Not A True Christian" argument.  Sorry, won't wash.
Christian antisemites still look, sound, and talk like Christians.  So
they're still Christians.  Sure, you may say they're BAD Christians --
and I would agree with you -- but doing something bad doesn't make
them non-Christian (and therefore allow fellow Christians to disclaim
the actions of others of their religion).


Daniel F. Boyd -- boyd@cs.buffalo.edu
Department of Computer Science
226 Bell Hall
Office: Trailer A (716) 645-3774
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 8 Jun 1993 13:53:22 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         BERMAN E-MAIL 
Subject:      RE: Anti-semitism

To the "practicing Christian" (Sorry, you didn't leave a name),

        I believe that you are not an anti-semite, as I believe that my
Christian friends are not anti-semites. However one cannot deny that many
christians have accused the Jews of Killing Christ.

        My mother once ran home crying because a friend had told her that
her (her friend's) father had told her that my mother's father had killed
Jesus. It is no secret that over the centuries, many priests and ministers
have preached this very accusation. If tjis is not anti-semitism with a
biblical reference, I don't know what is.

        By the same token, I was in Nei]w York one Shabbes morning and
attended a service at a synagogue. The rabbi, in his sermon, said that
"if you scratch any gentile you find an anti-semite". I took great
exception to this use of the "pulpit" to spread cultural intolerance, and
I DID confront the rabbi after the service. I cannot imagine all my non-
jewish friends as closet racists.

HAL BERMAN
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 8 Jun 1993 13:54:35 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         BERMAN E-MAIL 
Subject:      Re: Jewish Underground in Poland

To find a good history of the BUND, try the Workmen's Circle in New York. I
think they'll have a lot of references for you, but the best I've seen are
in Yiddish, so it would help to know it.

H.B.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 8 Jun 1993 13:56:00 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         FISHMAN@SNYFARVA.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Shtetl help needed

Bea,

        The information you seek may be found in a guide called _The Stetl
Reader_ (or something close to that).  The Genealogy bb on Prodigy has a wealth
of information on family names, geography, etc.  If you don't have access to
this service, let me know and I'll post the query for you.

***************
Charles Fishman
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 8 Jun 1993 13:57:12 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         FISHMAN@SNYFARVA.BITNET
Subject:      Announcement

Dear colleagues,

        I am currently at work on an anthology of poetry entitled _Flames
Ascending: World Poets on the Holocaust_, which is intended to be a sequel to
_Blood to Remember: American Poets on the Holocaust_ (Texas Tech University
Press, 1991).

        I would appreciate any and all of the following:

a) suggestions regarding important poets who should be represented in this book
b) information about existing translations of pertinent work by world-class
poets
c) names, addresses and/or phone numbers of translators who might be interested
in working with me to bring currently untranslated material into English
d) advice or questions appropriate to this project

        Although I have already compiled a great deal of material, I remain open
to comments and welcome suggestions.  Those who wish to assist me in this work
should say so: full credit will be given when the book is published.

        I can be reached at this list by return post or at any of the following:

Charles Fishman
Dept of English & Humanities
SUNY Farmingdale
Farmingdale, NY  11735

(516) 420-2031 (voice)
(516) 420-2051 (fax)
Fishman@snyfarva
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 8 Jun 1993 13:59:56 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         ez002658%bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu@ucdavis.BITNET
Subject:      Scandinavia and the Jews

I would like to locate archives in Denmark that contain information on the
Jewish experience in Denmark.  I will be traveling to Denmark this fall to
conduct dissertation research.  I would appreciate any help you can
forward to me.  Thanks in advance for your help.

Myrna Goodman
University of California, Davis
ez002658@bullwinkle.ucd.edu
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 9 Jun 1993 11:59:39 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Simon Wiesenthal Center Library/Archives 
Subject:      Re:  Shtetl help needed

Where Once We Walked has an entry for Kulczyce Szlacheckie - see
Kulchitsy: UKr pop. 67; 62 km SW of Lvov; 49'30"/23'17".

Unfortunately they do not give any further references.  The best
referebnce source is in Hebrew - Pinkas Hakehillot.  There are
undoubtedly desscriptions there of what happened in nearby (larger) towns.

I hope this helps.
Paul Hamburg
Reference Librarian
Simon Wiesenthal Center
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 9 Jun 1993 12:01:36 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         "Michel Eytan, LILoL" 
Subject:      RE: Anti-semitism

At 13:53 8/06/93 -0500, BERMAN E-MAIL wrote:
[deleted]
>        By the same token, I was in Nei]w York one Shabbes morning and
>attended a service at a synagogue. The rabbi, in his sermon, said that
>"if you scratch any gentile you find an anti-semite". I took great
>exception to this use of the "pulpit" to spread cultural intolerance, and
>I DID confront the rabbi after the service. I cannot imagine all my non-
>jewish friends as closet racists.
>
>HAL BERMAN

Hal,

I don't want to start mud-throwing. However, as a survivor of the Shoah and
later as a kid on the streets in various European countries, I am afraid I
must concur with your Rabbi in 90% of the cases... Even later, as an adult,
I have had personally some very queer (and saddening) experiences with
*close* christian "friends" who were mebbe(?) not even conscious of the
enormity of what they said. And things are getting regularly worse here
nowadays with old bitch Europe who has 'rien appris ni rien oublie'.

 ~=michel
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 10 Jun 1993 09:42:48 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         MCLEODJ@sask.usask.ca
Subject:      Re: Flames Ascending

Dear Charles,
For translations from German, Russian or Czech into English, you may
contact Dagmar Lieblova, Ph.D. A survivor herself, she works as a
translator for the Terezin Initiative and the Kafka Society in Prague. She
may be reached by FAX: 011-42-2-251031, phone: 011-42-2-353-6875, or you
may write to her at Na Petrinach 78, 16200 Praha 6, Czech Republic.

For your information, I have recently completed, together with Judith
Berman and Rose Engel from Los Angeles, a translation of the children's
opera Brundibar by Hans Krasa from Czech into English.

Rita McLeod
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 10 Jun 1993 09:43:54 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         BERMAN E-MAIL 
Subject:      RE: Anti-semitism

Dear Michel,

        I don't want to get into a great argument with you here, but to
say that 90% of gentiles are open or closet anti-semites is preposterous!
That would mean that at least 50% of my closer friends are anti-semites!
We can't fight racism by slandering others. The 90% statement can
only upset people who otherwise think of themselves as non-racists.

        Of course, it is OK to criticise jews, or parts of judaism, or
Israel without being an anti-semite. Often non-jews who somehow object
to the killing of palestinian children are labelled anti-semites, while
jews who do so are "self-hating". I have news for you. Neither is correct.
Jews (as we so often forget) are not perfect! We can do bad things as well
as the next person, and should be criticized. Even if we show evidence to
exonerate ourselves the exercise is a good one.

        No, I can't accept that half of my friends are jew-haters or racists.
I know them too well. Some of them respect judaism more than some jews I know.
A blanket statement like 90% is racist in itself and should not be tolerated.


HAL BERMAN
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 10 Jun 1993 09:47:12 CDT
Reply-To:     Doug Kaufman 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Doug Kaufman 
Subject:      HOLOCAUS List Digests

>From the moderator:

HOLOCAUS will be available at a future date in digest form.
Unfortunately, we are still running a version of Listserv
which does not support digests.  We will be upgrading soon.

======================

Have you considered making HOLOCAUS available in digest form?
With the number of messages, this would make reading the list
more convenient.  I presume that the LISTSERVER has been upgraded
to the new version, which permits digests.

--
Doug Kaufman
INTERNET: bn900@cleveland.freenet.edu
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 10 Jun 1993 09:57:02 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         RICHARD JENSEN 
Subject:      JewStudies #1 of new ejournal

* * * * J E W S T U D I E S * * * * *
  an e-journal of on-going work in
* *  J e w i s h    S t u d i e s  * *
        Issue 1.002    June 1993
_______________________________
Index:

Abstract:
        Jewish Literature/Philip & Mary Sidney's Psalm Translations
        Economics and Galician Jews
        Socialist/Communist/Labour Zionist organizations

Short Notes:
        Agnon/Yehoshua/Oz
        Hellenistic-Byzantine archaeology
        Psalm 19

Announcements
        The Last Jews of Cochin
        Youngstown Free-Net
        Jewish Studies in Canada - conference
        Teddy Kollek

Editorial
        The name JewStudies - an open discussion
        Printing and Posting the journal

======== Abstracts ====================

Ted Steinberg (STEINBER@FREDONIA.BITNET) writes:
    "I teach in the English Department at SUNY Fredonia, a
well-known center of Judaic studies.  My alleged areas of
expertise are medieval and Renaissance literature (including
Judaic material), but I have also done work in Yiddish literature
(a book on Mendele Mocher Seforim, for example).
    I have just finished some work on Philip and Mary Sidney's
sixteenth-seventeenth-century Psalm translations, trying to
show that Mary, at least, must have known some Hebrew in
order to translate so accurately.  I'm also preparing for an
experimental course in the fall on Black and Jewish Literature,
and I'd be happy to hear from anyone who might want to make
suggestions."
---------
Slawomir Tokarski (TOKARSKI@BF.iue.it) writes:
     "I am a third year Ph. D. candidate at European University
Institute in Florence. My subject is the economics of the Jewish
group in Galicia, in the years 1869-1914. The theoretical
background is furnished by the middleman minority concept
along with assumptions on the validity of the economic
background of the ethnic conflict. I hope to show links between
two phenomena: 1)emancipation of the Jews in Austria and the
influx of the Galician Jewry into the rural economy sector (credit
and trade market) and 2) emancipation of the Galician peasantry
via the development of the network of rural organizations. I will
attempt to prove that the axis of ethnic conflict in Galicia revolved
around these two processes and to investigate its consequences for
the Galicia."
--------
Mark Flumerfelt (MARKF@VM1.YorkU.CA) writes:
     "Hi!  My name is Mark Flumerfelt and I am in my first year
of a PHD program in history at York University in Toronto.  My
interests are 19th and 20th century Jewish history in Canada.
     Specifically, I hope to examine the development of the various
socialist/communist/labour Zionist organizations in Toronto and
Montreal.  I am presently still doing coursework, and next year I
have to prepare for my comprehensives, so I don't imagine that I
will get to my dissertation for another year and a half.  During that
time I hope to acquire a working knowledge of Yiddish and become acquainted with
the appropriate sources.  If anyone shares an
interest in this subject, please drop me a line.
    PS - Thanks Avi for putting all this work into Jewstudies.  Your
effort is appreciated. MF

============ Short Notes =====================

CA Franke (cafranke@alex.stkate.edu) writes:
     "I have recently become enamored of Agnon, been fond of A.B.
Yehoshua's and Amos Oz's writings, so look forward to more on
these as part of this network.  CAFranke, College of St. Catherine,
St. Paul MN"
-------
Thomas R. W. Longstaff (t_longst@COLBY.EDU) writes:
     "I am a Professor (and department chair) of Religious Studies
at Colby College in Waterville, Maine.  I teach in the area of
biblical studies and Judaism (ancient and modern).  My major
research for the last 15-20 years has been in the area of Hellenistic-
Byzantine archaeology in Israel.  I have excavated at a number of
sites in the Galilee (most recently for ten years as an Associate
Director of the Excavations at Sepphoris) and also in the Negev (at
Nitzana)."
-------
ALAN COOPER (ACOOPER@UCBEH.SAN.UC.EDU) writes:
"I am currently working on medieval Jewish interpretation of Psalm 19, and would
welcome advice concerning relevant out-of-the-way sources and secondary
literature.
 Alan Cooper, Hebrew Union College"

============= Announcements ===============

Nathan Katz (NKATZ@CFRVM.BITNET) writes:
      "Hello, you may be interested in this recently-published
book: Nathan Katz and Ellen S. Goldberg, THE LAST JEWS OF
COCHIN: JEWISH IDENTITY IN HINDU INDIA, University of
South Carolina Press, 1993, $39.95. "
      editor's note: if anyone is interested in more information
about this book, please send along a note to Nathan Katz at the
University of South Florida asking him to send a more detailed
post to JewStudies.
-------
Marlene Miller (xx105@yfn.ysu.edu) writes:
   "My name is Marlene Miller. I'm the SysOp of the Judaism SIG
on Youngstown Free-Net, and was wondering if you would allow
me to post the JEWSTUDIES mail I receive in my mailbox, to the
YFN Judaism SIG.
    If you'd like, you may telnet to yfn.ysu.edu and log on as
Visitor. At the prompt you enter the Judaism SIG (Special
Interest Group). There, you can choose the bulletin board (or any
other listed board) and look at what I do there.  If you like what
you see. Perhaps you would give me permission to post your list
there, as well.
------

The Canadian Jewish Historical Society, the national association
for Jewish Studies in Canada, will be holding its annual meeting
June 7-9 at Carleton University in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada as part
of the annual Learned Societies Conference. Space is still available,
so make every effort to attend.
-------
For those who haven't seen it yet, Jerusalem's Mayor is now
on-line through e-mail. His address is: kollek@jerusalem1.datasrv.co.il

==========Editorial==================

Bob Werman (RWERMAN@HUJIVMS.BITNET) writes:
"Pardon me for suggesting that "JewStudies"  sounds like "Jew
boy" and similar pejoratives."
Editorial Note: Interesting you say that, since I had originally
requested the name to be JewishStudies, but apparently it was
too long... I think I have rationalized the name by saying that
by (re-) appropriating a pejorative term, it is empowering, much
like the gay-rights movement has done with the terms "queer"
or "dyke".
HOWEVER - I would be interested in hearing what other people
may think about this issue.
-------
I would ask all of you to print out this issue and post on a bulletin board in
an appropriate area of your home institution. By doing this, you will help
disseminate our electronic journal.
Current circulation = 180

============end====================
Jewstudies@nysernet.org
ajhyman = moderator
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 10 Jun 1993 09:58:28 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         RICHARD JENSEN 
Subject:      Southern Jewish Historical Society

    The Southern Jewish Historical Society is looking for
    members.  Professional historians & graduate students
    interested in the history of Jews in the US South are
    invited to join the mailing list for the SJHS newsletter and
    annual meeting information.
    use snailmail to write:
    Lee Shai Weissbach
    dept of History
    U of Louisville
    Louisville KY 40292
    (502) 588-6817
    tell them  HOLOCAUS sent you.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 10 Jun 1993 10:00:32 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Jeffrey A Shandler 
Subject:      Passover in camps

I am looking for documentary information about celebrations of Passover
in Concentration Camps or Death Camps--particularly in Belsen in 1944..
 Many thanks, Jeffrey Shandler
jas42@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 10 Jun 1993 10:08:39 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Bruce White 3807 
Subject:      Re: Where it starts
In-Reply-To:  <9306071705.aa07674@ncrcom.DaytonOH.NCR.COM>; from "D. Andrew
              Kille" at Jun 7, 93 1:30 pm

> A couple quick notes.  First, the story of Herod's slaughter of the
> innocents _is_ in the book of Matthew (2:16-17).

[analysis deleted]

> Fifthly, there are other more troubling passages in the NT for
> grounding future anti-Semites.

Coincidentally I happened to read this section of Matthew last week while I was
on vacation. Which passages in the NT do you consider particularly troubling?

Bruce
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 10 Jun 1993 10:09:39 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Bruce White 3807 
Subject:      Re: Where it starts
In-Reply-To:  <9306071704.aa07623@ncrcom.DaytonOH.NCR.COM>; from "Michel Eytan,
              LILoL" at Jun 7, 93 1:29 pm

> Dunno if this is the right place, but ever since as an 8-year old child I
> experienced the Shoa I keep wondering Why???
>
>  ~=michel
>

I was browsing through the stacks at the UCSD main library a few months ago
and glanced through a title or two which dealt with the question "where was
God during the Holocaust". I'd like to open up the discussion to this area
(if that's OK with the list manager).

Bruce
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 10 Jun 1993 14:45:34 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         FISHMAN@SNYFARVA.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Flames Ascending

Rita,

        Thanks so much for the information about Dagmar Lieblova.  In regard to
"Brundibar," do you feel that I should consider this work--in whole or part--for
inclusion in _Flames Ascending_?

        I appreciate your getting in touch.


                        --Charles Fishman\\\
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 10 Jun 1993 14:46:58 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         FISHMAN@SNYFARVA.BITNET
Subject:      Re: JewStudies #1 of new ejournal

I agree with Bob Werman regarding the mis-named JewStudies.  Too long?  Make the
name Jewish.Studies@nysernet.org.  I find the use of the perjorative insulting,
not empowering.

****************
Charles Fishman
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 10 Jun 1993 14:49:48 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         MarcM@LETTSCI.SSCNET.UCLA.EDU
Subject:      Bob Werman's objection to "Jewstudies"

RE:  Bob Werman's editorial comment that "Jewstudies" sounds too much like
the perjorative "Jewboy".

     I would suggest that Bob is internalizing (pardon my psycholingualism)
the anti-semitic epithet of "Jew".  I have known Jews who experience a cringe
when using the singular form of Jew, often going out of their way to say
"He's Jewish" rather than "He's a Jew."    I posit that the latter is less
anti-semitic, the former literally meaning "like a Jew", and if my hunch is
correct, I would think that the word "Jewish" has its root in
medieval derogatory language describing negative stereotypes of those who
were identified as Jews.

    Are there any etymologists out there who might shed some light on this?

                         --Marc Mayerson
                           marcm@lettsci.sscnet.ucla.edu
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 10 Jun 1993 14:51:03 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Marilyn Engel 
Subject:      title of new ejournal

Richard,

        How about JHstudies for the title?  You thereby have the first and
last letters of Jewish and retain the word studies.  Would that fit.

        Good luck.

                                        Marilyn Kopelowitz Engel
                                        mkengel@gn.ecn.purdue.edu
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 10 Jun 1993 16:32:53 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Jeff Finger 
Subject:      JEWSTUDIES Title is Good
In-Reply-To:  Your message of "Thu,
              10 Jun 93 14:51:03 CDT."
              <9306101959.AA05094@mail-relay-1.mv.us.adobe.com>

I also thought about JEWSTUDIES when I first saw it, and came to the
conclusion that it is, in fact, good.

The potential problem lies in using "Jew" as an adjective rather than a
noun, that is, in the classic pejorative manner such "Jew Boy" or "Jew
Newspaper".

Well, tough nuggies. This is a logical and convenient abbreviation that
we should not HAVE TO avoid. If the Jew-haters out there, may their
names and memories be erased, cause us to have to avoid using something
that would be convenient and logical to us, we have lost, not them.

So, I think "JEWSTUDIES" is just fine. Yimakh shemam ve'zikhram.

-- Itzhak "Jeff" Finger --
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 10 Jun 1993 16:35:13 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Judith Turner 
Subject:      Re: title of new ejournal

  "Jew" is a noun. "Jewish" is an adjective.


  Think of the difference between
    America History
  and
    American History

  Is this to be a journal about Jews, or a

  journal about things Jewish?



  One convention that's become pretty much accepted
  in journal publishing is the acronym. Think
  of NEJM, or the electronic CCT.

  How about E/JJS for the Electronic Journal of
  Jewish Studies?

  Remember, a journal title has to sound serious
  and academic if you hope to get serious academics
  to submit papers to it. That's why there is no
  Journal of Rad Stuff (or whatever the latest hip
  jargon is).

  Of course, if your intention is to put together
  a journal designed to be titillating and shocking,
  you are doing just fine.

      --Judith Turner
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 10 Jun 1993 16:37:00 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         HANFTS@conrad.appstate.edu
Subject:      Re: Southern Jewish Historical Society

Lee Sai:
Can I join the SJHS?
Sheldon Hanft @ APPSTATE.edu
PS.
I'm glad you've posted on the Holocaustn & other nets.
Thanks
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 10 Jun 1993 16:41:33 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         "Sam Edelman, Ph.D." 
Subject:      Re: JewStudies #1 of new ejournal

I also agree with Bob Werman's perspective on "JewStudies".  I do not feel that
I am internalizing anything.  The connotations are far too old and significant
to be dismissed.  I would support the name Jewish.Studies suggested earlier.
Sam Edelman
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 10 Jun 1993 16:43:43 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Larry Davis 
Subject:      Re: Bob Werman's objection to "Jewstudies"

The question of the negative connotations of JEW caused me to look at a number
of sources and I'll try to summarize them here.

First--there seems to have been a movement, mainly by American Jews, some
decades ago to eliminate the term JEW as an adjective, so we got the Young
Men's HEBREW Association, HEBREW [rather than Jewish] commedians, and so on.
McDavid's 1961 edition of Mencken's THE AMERICAN LANGUAGE notes that "if
Chicago is representative, of American KULTUR, Conservative, Traditional, and
even Orthodox Jews assemble oftener in HEBREW rather than JEWISH
congregations" (p. 376).

JEW as a term certainly carries opprobrium in American English. A 1936 version
of Roget's THESAURUS even listed JEW as a synonym for LENDER. TO JEW 'to
cheat' goes back to at least 1845 (Oxford English Dict.). Not surprisingly the
Medieval references to JEW (frequenly spelled Iu or Gyw) are almost always
unflattering, since JEW is generally opposed to CHRISTIAN. And Shakespeare's
Shylock is, we remember, a Jew and not Jewish.

American dictionaries handle JEW rather interestingly. The Merriam Webster
Third New International notes that TO JEW and TO JEW DOWN are "usually taken
to be offensive." WEBSTER'S NINTH NEW COLLEGIATE DICTIONARY (based on the
above) and The AMERICAN HERITAGE DICTIONARY (2nd.ed.) do not list these verbs
at all (as if not listing them will make them go away, I wonder?).

It seems clear enough that JEW as a noun seems to fare better than JEW as
either a verb or an adjective. I was born a Jew (or Jewish), but clearly was
raised JEWISH. My parents were JEWS/JEWISH.

In short, then, JewNet has its problems because of the adjectival use of JEW.
Personally, however, I like the term since it has a nice, stark quality to it.
Summers are a wonderful time to worry about things like this!

Larry Davis
Wichita State University
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 10 Jun 1993 16:45:59 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Simon Wiesenthal Center Library/Archives 
Subject:      Re:  Scandinavia and the Jews

The World Jewish Directory lists the folloing Jewish libraries
in Copenhagen:

Jewish Library
Ny Kongensgade 6
1472 COPENHAGEN K
Hillel Ron - Librarian

Royal Library
Bibliotheca Judaica Simonseniana
8 Christians Brygge
COPENHAGEN

Paul H. HAmburg
Reference Librarian
Simon Wiesenthal Center
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 11 Jun 1993 09:38:51 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         "D. Andrew Kille" 
Subject:      Re: Where it starts
In-Reply-To:  <9306101509.AA04037@mail.netcom.com>; from "Bruce White 3807" at
              Jun 10, 93 10:08 am

>
> > A couple quick notes.  First, the story of Herod's slaughter of the
> > innocents _is_ in the book of Matthew (2:16-17).
>
> [analysis deleted]
>
> > Fifthly, there are other more troubling passages in the NT for
> > grounding future anti-Semites.
>
> Coincidentally I happened to read this section of Matthew last week while I wa
s
> on vacation. Which passages in the NT do you consider particularly troubling?
>
> Bruce
>


Just quickly, the gospel of John in general and his depiction of the
crucifixion in particular.  John is fond of simply lumping "the Jews"
together as the bad guys, and modern christian readers who do not have
the historical or critical background tend to form anti-semitic attitudes
from a simplistic reading of the text.

--
*********************************
(The Rev.) D. Andrew Kille
Graduate Theological Union, Berkeley, CA
VOCATUS ATQUE NON VOCATUS, DEUS ADERIT.
********************************
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 11 Jun 1993 09:40:02 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         MCLEODJ@sask.usask.ca
Subject:      Re: Flames Ascending

Charles,
I am not sure what exactly are your criteria for inclusion in the
anthology. The Brundibar was composed by Hans (Hanus) Krasa in the late
30s. At that time he lived in Prague and collaborated with Adolf
Hoffmeister on the libretto. As Judith Berman writes in her introduction to
our recent translation: "Little did he know that 50 or so performances
would be given by children passing through Terezin. Before he was shipped
to Auschwitz where he perished, he trained hundreds of children to sing the
parts. Each part had to be learned by many children as no one knew who
would live long enough for the next performance..." If you consider an opera
libretto worthy, I am sure that Judith and Rose would be as pleased as I
would if you included it. We consider our translation as a dedication to
the thousands of children who lived in the Terzin Ghetto. For me the
translation was a particularly important venture, as my mother is one of
these children. Regards Rita
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 11 Jun 1993 09:59:00 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         eytan@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr
Subject:      RE: Anti-semitism

>Dear Michel,
>
>        I don't want to get into a great argument with you here, but to
>say that 90% of gentiles are open or closet anti-semites is preposterous!
>That would mean that at least 50% of my closer friends are anti-semites!
>We can't fight racism by slandering others. The 90% statement can
>only upset people who otherwise think of themselves as non-racists.
>
>        Of course, it is OK to criticise jews, or parts of judaism, or
>Israel without being an anti-semite. Often non-jews who somehow object
>to the killing of palestinian children are labelled anti-semites, while
>jews who do so are "self-hating". I have news for you. Neither is correct.
>Jews (as we so often forget) are not perfect! We can do bad things as well
>as the next person, and should be criticized. Even if we show evidence to
>exonerate ourselves the exercise is a good one.
>
>        No, I can't accept that half of my friends are jew-haters or racists.
>I know them too well. Some of them respect judaism more than some jews I know.
>A blanket statement like 90% is racist in itself and should not be tolerated.
>
>
>HAL BERMAN

dear mr. berman,

i shall not enter into an argument and do not wish to get into
considerations about palestinians -- that have nothing whatever to do in a
discussion about *my* experiences with non-jews.

you are lucky with your friends, i ain't with mine.

to put a final touch: i was merely recounting personal experiences. as for
being racist myself, have it as you want it; but then the sheep may be said
to be an anti-wolf racist. moreover this is yet another well-known
anti-semites' argument.

 ~=michel eytan
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 11 Jun 1993 10:01:34 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         eytan@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr
Subject:      Re: French?

>> And things are getting regularly worse here nowadays with old bitch
>> Europe who has 'rien appris ni rien oublie'.
>
>I don't speak French -- what does this mean?
>
>Thanks!
>
>
>Daniel F. Boyd -- boyd@cs.buffalo.edu
>Department of Computer Science
>226 Bell Hall
>Office: Trailer A (716) 645-3774

Fellow netters,

I have gotten several messages about this, so I am posting to the whole
list -- sorry for those who are not in need of translation. And I beg your
pardon for being too cryptic in the first instance.

This was a famous phrase (about the Emigres after the French Revolution) --
by Talleyrand? don't remember any more -- who had 'learnt nothing and
forgotten nothing' when they came back from the Holy German Empire to
restore  Louis XVIII as King of France.

My allusion was to the fact that we see, here in Europe, a very clear-cut
resurgence of the '30s mentality regarding Jews (in particular
anti-semitism), as if nothing had happened since then -- which they have
the `Hutspah to declare to be the case, since there has purportedly been no
shoah...
--
Michel Eytan, Lab Info, Log & Lang              eytan@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr
Dpt Info, U Strasbourg II                       V: +33 88 41 74 29
22 rue Descartes, 67084 Strasbourg FR           F: +33 88 41 74 40
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 11 Jun 1993 10:15:03 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         "Michel Eytan, LILoL" 
Subject:      Re: JEWSTUDIES Title is Good

>I also thought about JEWSTUDIES when I first saw it, and came to the
>conclusion that it is, in fact, good.
>
>The potential problem lies in using "Jew" as an adjective rather than a
>noun, that is, in the classic pejorative manner such "Jew Boy" or "Jew
>Newspaper".
>
>Well, tough nuggies. This is a logical and convenient abbreviation that
>we should not HAVE TO avoid. If the Jew-haters out there, may their
>names and memories be erased, cause us to have to avoid using something
>that would be convenient and logical to us, we have lost, not them.
>
>So, I think "JEWSTUDIES" is just fine. Yimakh shemam ve'zikhram.
>
>-- Itzhak "Jeff" Finger --

Yits`hak,

originally I had some doubts, but your posting made me change my mind: this
is the right attitude to Jew-haters, overt or covert.
Z:khor eth she`asah l:kha `amalek!

 ~=michel
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 11 Jun 1993 10:17:15 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         "Michel Eytan, LILoL" 
Subject:      Re: Where it starts

>> Dunno if this is the right place, but ever since as an 8-year old child I
>> experienced the Shoa I keep wondering Why???
>>
>>  ~=michel
>>
>
>I was browsing through the stacks at the UCSD main library a few months ago
>and glanced through a title or two which dealt with the question "where was
>God during the Holocaust". I'd like to open up the discussion to this area
>(if that's OK with the list manager).
>
>Bruce

Since Bruce apparently wants to open the discussion, I reproduce here
(without Daniel's permission) a posting I sent to 'mail.liberal.judaism':

---------------------------------------

>Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1993 21:49:08 +0100
>From: eytan@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr (Michel Eytan)
>Subject: Why? (Meditations on the Warsaw Uprising)
>
>I realize that this list is not the best forum for discussing my question, but
>there are several people on it (some known, many others yet unknown) that I
>very highly respect and their opinion matters to me.
>
>Yesterday evening I attended at Shul the ceremony for the 50th anniversary of
>the Warsaw ghetto uprising and I again asked myself (as I do ever so often
>since at age 8 I was left without my father and 22 members of my close
>family):
>
>WHY did all this happen to us? WHY do we Jews have to suffer in body and mind
>ever since some 3500 years ago we became slaves in Egypt? I believe that Isaac
>was indeed offered up to God, even if not immediately, except that it was 'lo
>e`had bilvad' (not merely him) but all his children and children's children...
>
>Was it to ram down Abraham and his desendance's throat his great crime: to
>imagine a God who would want such a thing? Was it that 'Fathers have eaten
>sour grapes...'?
>
>Of course I know the Orthodox answer: it's because of our sins. But did we
>really sin so much more than the other nations? Are we really a nation of
>immoral, corrupt, murderous vilains -- all of us, including the milions of
>infants that have been slaughtered since we became a people?
>
>The marxist and psycho-analytic answers do not satisfy me any better either.
>
>So WHY? WHY? WHY?
>
>------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 11 Jun 1993 10:18:50 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Jerry Rosenberg 
Subject:      Jewish studies issue

Instead of using the word Jew or Jewish, consider JudaicStudies or
JudeoStudies as more encompassing and with less historical connotations.
While it is disturbing that so much time has to be spent on deciding on
the title for a journal, it does reflect the continuing problem of self-
identification and imposed identification of Jew, Jewish, Judaic, Judeo,
Hebrews, etc. Unfortunately, history has flavored these words with so
many meanings and with much varied baggage, that it is unlikely anytime soon
that any choice will be without problems.
Jerry Rosenberg
jrosenbe@ua1vm
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 11 Jun 1993 10:56:35 -0500
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Jim Mott 
Subject:      Brundibar

Forwarded message:
> From LISTSERV@uicvm.uic.edu Fri Jun 11 15:43 GMT 1993
> To: MCLEODJ@sask.usask.ca
> Cc: delatizk@bbn.com, Holocaust List 
> Subject: Brundibar
> In-Reply-To: Your message of Fri, 11 Jun 93 09:40:02 -0500.
> Reply-To: delatizky%BBN.COM@uicvm.uic.edu
> Date: Fri, 11 Jun 93 10:53:18 -0400
> Message-Id: <9631.739810398@bbn.com>
> From: delatizk%BBN.COM@uicvm.uic.edu
>
> Have you heard the new recording of _Brundibar_ on Channel Classics?  In your
> opinion, is it an adequate (or better) performance?  Worth investigating?
>
> 
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 11 Jun 1993 12:08:04 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         FISHMAN@SNYFARVA.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Where it starts

On the subject of the Christian background to the _Shoah_, I suggest that all
interested parties read Franklin H. Littell's _The Crucifixion of the Jews_.
Littell refuses to indulge in ameliorative rhetoric.  Whatever your religious
allegiance, his book is worthy of your attention.


****************
Charles Fishman
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 11 Jun 1993 12:09:08 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         FISHMAN@SNYFARVA.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Flames Ascending

Rita,

        I would me *most happy* to consider the libretto.  Although it may not
qualify as "poetry," its significance may permit me to include it.  At this
point in my work, I can make no solid judgment on this, since I have no idea how
much room I'll eventually have, how much material I will compile, or what
restrictions a potential publisher will impose.

        If you and your colleagues can accept this uncertitude, please send a
copy of _The Brundibar_ to me.

                --Charles Fishman
                  2956 Kent Rd E
                  Wantagh, NY  11793
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 11 Jun 1993 12:10:29 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         FISHMAN@SNYFARVA.BITNET
Subject:      Re: JEWSTUDIES Title is Good

Dear Michel & Itzhak,

        No matter how you turn the phrase, "Jewstudies" is simply unappealing,
at best, and offensive, at worst.  Most significantly, it is unnecessary: it
certainly is not either "convenient" or "logical."

        When the director of the Nuyorican Cafe in Manhattan came to read for
the Latin American Student Organization on campus, he made a big point about his
teaching _The Merchant of Venice_ at Rutgers and spoke of a Jewish woman who had
nurtured him.  However, when I took him out to dinner--he and his black back-up
musician, to be exact--he indulged in Jew-baiting the entire time.  Excerpts:
"What kind of merchant is your father?"  "Is your wife a Jewess?"

        My father was no kind of merchant.  My wife, bless her, is a Jew, who is
admired and loved by those who know her (and who does not need to be studied).
And anti-Semites come in sheep's clothing as well as in the garb of wolves.  Let
us not yield to the rhetoric of the oppressors and the sick.

                        --Charles
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 11 Jun 1993 12:11:28 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         FISHMAN@SNYFARVA.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Jewish studies issue

Jerry,

        Good suggestions on the title.  I, too, hope we can get past this issue
quickly.

                        --Charles
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 11 Jun 1993 12:38:59 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Dr John Gillies 
Subject:      Why?

It is presumptuous of me - as a newcomer to this list and a non-Jew -
to enter into this discussion, but it seems to me that the question
"Where was God during the Holocaust?" (or - in the title of Arno
Mayer's wonderful book - "Why Did The Skies Not Darken?") is a
version (albeit perhaps the most powerful and important
version in human history) of the Problem of Evil, with which
philosophers and theologians have wrestled for milennia. Why, if there
is a supremely good Being in control of the universe, does Evil
exist? Why, if God is good, does God allow even a single child to die
of starvation? The problem, of course, is only a problem if one
accepts the original premise.
I have discussed this many times with religious friends - Christians
and Jews - and my conclusion from these discussions is that, in
reality, none of these friends could *conceive of the existence* of
an answer to this question which they would regard as "satisfactory".
They cannot conceive of there *being* a resolution of the "Problem of
Evil" which, however intellectually sophisticated, would actually
lead them to *feel in their hearts* that "now I am content".
I hope fervently that no-one will misunderstand me when I say that,
for me, the question "Where was God during the Holocaust?" is
fundamentally the same question as that asked by a parent whose child
has been murdered while playing in a local park (as happened to a
colleague of mine) - "Why was this terrible thing allowed to
happen?" I don't believe that such things are "allowed" to happen,
but surely the alternative is not to believe that they happen "at
random" ?
 My own view is that trying to understand why the Holocaust
occurred is an immensely difficult and complex task. It is also of
supreme importance - but I believe that we are likely to get
closer to an answer by examining the history and psychology of anti-
Semitism, the ideology of nazism, the politics and psychology of
oppression and victimisation and related questions. I do not think
this will be an acceptable view to everyone on this list - but the
task is urgent, as we witness again the rise of neo-nazi movements
across Europe.



John Gillies
Department of Psychology
Adam Smith Building
University of Glasgow
Glasgow  G12 8RT                      Tel: (0)41 339 8855 ext.5351
Scotland
                         johng@psy.glasgow.ac.uk
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 11 Jun 1993 15:41:35 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         RUEDNBRG@NYUACF.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Why?

Date sent: 11-JUN-1993

The question of "why" is so very broad.
In order to begin to attempt to think about it, it seems to me that one
needs to specify and direct the question, since it can be discussed on so
many levels - historical, philosophical, political, psychological.

The "why" of an 8 year old is not the same as that of a researcher.
The 'why' of an 8 year old speaks of the pain that lasts a lifetime, and
in some cases cannot be resolved.

As for intellectual inquiries:
"why" the Jews, "why" in Europe, "why" victimization and scapegoating in
general...these all are slightly different inquiries that are related, yet
specific in their own ways...  How we feel about it and what we learn
from it are yet another layer.

The most simple answer of course is: why? because it was possible.

It's not a very reassuring answer. But first we must come to understand the
specifics of a particular event, which includes both cause and effect and
random chance. And then we must come to understand that just because it is
possible, and did indeed happen in the way that it did, does not mean that
everything else and all other possibilities in life are destroyed as well.

It is hard to live with an unanswered "why"...

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Lucia Ruedenberg
New York University
Dep of Performance Studies
Email: ruednbrg@ACFcluster.NYU.EDU
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 13 Jun 1993 17:00:54 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         LC0380@ALBNYVMS.BITNET
Subject:      WHY? WHY? WHY?

Why did the Shoah occur? You probably believe that both historical
and Biblical explanations cannot provide any answers to explain
the life of the Jewish people. This is such an overwhelming
question that I can't dare to offer a definitive opinion.

Sometimes, though, I think this: we are all human beings, Jews
and non-Jews alike. Non-Jews perpetrated many horrors on
the Jewish people, and, as human beings, are in part
representatives of the human race. This darkness of
the human soul is part of the definition of human beings,
like it or not. If human beings have such a spectacular
capacity to act out this darkness, then possibly
human beings do not have the capacity to explain or
understand it. I'm just wondering if anyone can
answer your WHY.

I don't mean this as an evasion. And I can't say that
this is necessarily my only or final opinion on this
subject. I sometimes look upon us Jews as "chosen" for
a difficult fate, but I hesitate to say by whom or why.

Laura Cohen

lc0380@albnyvms.bitnet
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 14 Jun 1993 11:47:18 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         FISHMAN@SNYFARVA.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Why?

John,

        Thank you for writing and for sharing your views on this crucial and
unresolvable question.  By way of reply, here is a poem from my anthology,
_Blood to Remember: American Poets on the Holocaust_:


                GOD'S DEATH


                during the Holocaust
                along with the six million
                God is slowly dying

                golden glares of
                Stars of David
                blind Him

                shattered glass
                from Kristallnacht
                cuts Him

                devilish plans
                in Hitler's ravings
                deafen Him

                Emanuel Ringelblum's pen
                scratching his ghetto diary
                crazes Him

                shrieks of Jews
                tortured in experiments
                pierce Him

                blood of victims
                shot naked into pits
                drowns Him

                Zyklon B gas
                shaken into "showers"
                poisons Him

                stench of smoke
                rising from ovens
                suffocates Him

                even God almighty
                can not go on
                can not survive

                closing Anne Frank's
                innocent eyes
                in Bergen-Belsen

                God flings
                Himself
                to the four winds

                hurls
                Himself
                beyond the Heavens

                banishes
                Himself
                from the Universe

                forever
                I say
                forever


****************
Charles Fishman
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 14 Jun 1993 11:48:20 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         FISHMAN@SNYFARVA.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Why?

Apologies-- I meant to include the attribution:  "God's Death" is a poem by
Florence W. Freed, (c) 1985 by Florence W. Freed.


                        --C. Fishman
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 14 Jun 1993 11:49:31 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Chris Lasdauskas 
Subject:      Re: Why?
In-Reply-To:  <9306111742.AA28463@geo.geol.utas.edu.au>

Chris Lasdauskas             _--_|\      Email : u883550@geo.geol.utas.edu.au
Dep't of Geography &        /  Oz  \     Phone : +61 02 202 484 (fax 202 989)
Environmental Studies       \_.--._/
University of Tasmania            V


On Fri, 11 Jun 1993, Dr John Gillies wrote:

> It is presumptuous of me - as a newcomer to this list and a non-Jew -
> to enter into this discussion, but it seems to me that the question
> "Where was God during the Holocaust?" (or - in the title of Arno

I don't think it is presumptuous of you - the Holocaust affected many
millions of non-Jewish people, and killed several million of them. This
aside, it is every Human's right, and duty, to discuss such acts of evil -
and to act to stop their re-occurrence.

Chris
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 14 Jun 1993 11:51:26 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         lin collette 
Subject:      RE: Anti-semitism
In-Reply-To:  Message of Fri,
              11 Jun 1993 09:59:00 CDT from 

Michel, I must second the previous poster's comments about 90% of gentiles be-
ing anti-semitic.  I was going to comment the last time, but your post made me
a little too angry to send a calm note.  You can feel persecuted all you like;
that's your business.  But to generalize as you've done is as bad as my saying
that 90% of all Jews are anti-gentile.  Or that 90% of Jews are racist or sex-
ist or whatever.  Try substituting different maligned racial and ethnic groups
and see what you come up with; then you'll see why people get steamed.  Blaming
and accusations do no good in increasing tolerance and getting people to get
along.  Yes, we should admit the injustices we have committed against each
other, but it solves nothing for blacks or whites or Jews or anyone to keep us-
ing said injustices as clubs to beat people with.  NOTHING justifies oppression
of other peoples in toto.  But I think you and others need to realize that we
are all prejudiced in some way against SOMETHING/SOMEONE/SOME GROUP.  Heaven
will be when    this is ended.  In the meantime, we have to learn to work thru
those prejudices and to work with each other.  Comments such as yours don't
contribute to that at all.

lin collette (bi599128@brownvm.brown.edu) or (bi599128@brownvm)
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 14 Jun 1993 11:53:48 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         LC0380@ALBNYVMS.BITNET
Subject:      Protocols of the Elders of Zion

This is in part a private message, but I believe that the list members
as a whole will be interested:

Last week someone from the University of New Hampshire--whose name
and address I failed to save--sent me a message, one part of which
queried how it would be possible to get a copy of the Protocols of
the Elders of Zion without having to join a neo-Nazi group. Good
question! I sent a email message to the Simon Wiesenthal center,
asking how to get a copy of PAZ. The response listed two
books, which contain PAZ in English translation:

> The Truth About 'The Protocols of Zion': A Complete Exposure
by Herman Bernstein (New York: Ktav, 1971) Exhibit F contains
the English translation of PAZ.

> Warrant for Genocide: The Myth of the Jewish World-Conspiracy and
the Protocols of the Elders of Zion by Norman Cohn (Harper &
Row, 1966)

Laura Cohen

lc0380@albnyvms.bitnet
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 14 Jun 1993 12:09:17 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         "Sam Edelman, Ph.D." 
Subject:      Re: Flames Ascending

Judith Berman helped us out a number of years ago in developing a radio
documentary on Terezin and Brundibar in particular.  I am pleased to see that
she now has a new translation out of the opera.  Brundibar is an important
cultural artifact of the Holocaust which speaks volumes to children.  I look
forward to seeing your work Rita.  Sam Edelman, Dept of Communication Arts and
Sciences, CSU-Chico, Chico, CA 95929-0502 sedelman@oavax.csuchico.edu
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 14 Jun 1993 14:42:37 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         BERMAN E-MAIL 
Subject:      RE: WHY? WHY? WHY?

Why?


        Who can answer that question?


        Hitler, Eichman, Speer, etc...   those who did it are the only
ones who might know. I'll bet most of the murderers, evil as they were, did
not even know thw fundamental reason why they were being asked to do this. They
most likely responded to the rhetoric of their leaders. This is most definitely
 not an "excuse", but it appears to me the only answer I can think of to explain
what happened, the bandwagon effect that occured.

        The motivating factors that brought this about will always be a mystery
to me, and I think to anyone who finds the idea of the systematic attempt to
anihilate millions of innocent victims abhorent.

        I had an aquaintance for a brief period of time who sincerely thought
that the Jews had it coming to them. He happened to have been of German
descent but that does not appear to be a prerequisite nowadays. He said that
the Jews were a threat to Hitler and the logical solution was to kill them,
just as the jews would have killed him had they had the chance.

        He could never explain to me exactly how Jews in Shtetles, old and
young, most not even in Germany and many poor, without political or
economic power, could be a threat to Hitler. But he maintained that they were
and that Hitler was justified. Then he went on to dispute the actual details
of the holocaust, and I decided that there was no point in proceding with
the issue (I "met" him on a BBS, I then saw him once, and have no idea (or
concern of) what he is doing now).

        How do you argue with that? How do you educate "that"? If
anyone knows, please tell me.


HAL BERMAN
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 14 Jun 1993 14:44:13 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         "Raymond G. Harder" 
Subject:      Re: Bob Werman's objection to "Jewstudies"
In-Reply-To:  <9306102146.AA02169@eis.calstate.edu>

Of course his reaction was psychological, internal, and pscholinguistic!
That is exactly the point. Words mean what we "feel" they mean moreso than
what we "know" they mean. I could give a detailed etymological and lexical
definition of "Jew," but it would be meaningless! Words have power based
on their context which is made up of the situation in which they are used
AND the totality of the situations in which the users have experienced them
before. As a White Anglo-saxon Protestant I find it an offensive term
inmost contexts and therefore think that it should NOT be used in this
context. Yes, it is sad that the Anti-semites have taken away a perectly
good word, but the fact is that they have and it cannot be taken back
except by historical accident, usage, and most importantly time--lots of
time.

It is similar to the word "nigger." I recall very vividly being offended
to hear my father use this word pejoratively once as a child. I was
surprized because I had never known my father to be intolerant or bigoted
in any way. He had always treated people equally. Perhaps this made this
all the more of a stark uttering.

However, the most offensive use of the word I ever heard was my first day
on the job at an inner city school when I heard one fifth grade black boy
call another a "dumb ghetto-black nigger." I came unglued! I made it very
clear that I would not tolerate the use of "that word" in my
classroom or in my presence. My students found it somewhat amusing that I
would be offended by a word that they used regularly. Why should I care if
they didn't? I told them that it was a symbol for me of many things that I
had fought against and more importantly for them of things their immediate
forefathers had fought against. The reality of how they were using it
(quite innocently) could not overcome the symbolic power of the word.

Regarding the comments implying that most non-jews are anti-semites, I
grew up in white, republican Orange County California where I think the
first black student in any of my schools came in my junior year of high
school and "Hebrews" ;-)> were scarce as hen's teeth (I knew two families
in 20 years). I can assure you that no one I knew ever donned a white
sheet and very, very few ever demonstrated even verbal racial prejudice
(epithets, jokes, slurs, etc....) in my presence. As a whole, we (whoever
"we" are) aren't out to get you (whoever "you" are). For the most part we
never paid any attention to you or your lot in life at all. In a world
like ours, perhaps that is the greatest evil of all....

****************************************************************************
* Raymond G. Harder                  "Can't walk today, I don't feel well."*
* Educational Technology Consultant  "Why don't you sit out in the sun?"   *
* 909-983-4713                       "What? people will think I'm lazy!    *
* rharder@eis.calstate.edu                -- My 92 year old grandmother    *
****************************************************************************
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 14 Jun 1993 14:47:01 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         HANFTS@conrad.appstate.edu
Subject:      Re: WHY? WHY? WHY?

To explain why Shoah occurred, a structure or at minimum, a consensus of
widely accepted assumptions, must exist if a broad general explanation is
to be established. Unfortunately, no such structure exists.  For the orthodox,
who accept one set of assumptions, Shoah is either divine retribution for
Jewish transgressions or a mysterious part of an incomprehendable divine
plan whose ultimate course and cause is known only to the creator.

When Rabbi Rubenstein, the author of "The Cunning of History," was told by
an orthodox Luthern prelate that Hitler was the instrument of divine
punishment for the Jews, just as the Berlin wall & a divided nation was
Germany's punishment for Shoah, he rejected a religious explanation for
a secular one which assumes that Shoah was another case of Humankind's
inhumanity. In his explanation Jews developed a "defeated peoples" posture
which enable them to survive by suffering limited periods of persection.
He then shows how the century before Shoah changed conditions in Germany
which enabled the Nazi to change the rules which had enabled Jews to
survive earlier persecutions. The methods which enabled them to endure earlier
persecutions left them vulnerable to the deceptions of the Nazis and to the
death camps while the world did little to help them and they were very
unequipped to help themselves.

While someone earlier suggested that Shoah happened, because it could happen,
she hit on the other popular set of assumptions. The emergence of the
totalitarian state (i.e. Hannah Arent) made possible the regimentation,
ideology, instrumentality, (pick your preferred emphasis) etc., which made
it possible for a ruling elite to marshal the resources of the nation to
facilitate the genocide of one/several sizeable groups of its citizens.

The recurrance of this methodology (to various degrees) used in Indonesia
against the ethnic Chinese, by Pol Pot's followers in their "killing fields"
to say nothing of the genocide of the Soviet peasant class under Stalin or
the current acts of "ethnic cleansing" in the Balkan (in some cases by groups
who have direct ties to the fascist colaberators in WW II).

It seems to me that Shoah is clearly a case of Human inhumanity (unless you
want to postulate that the God's of all these peoples have a coordinated
punishment program operating, with localized variations to fit indigenous
conditions and groups). It also seems clear to me that the failure of people
of "good will," both then and now, to oppose these efforts at genocide make
possible their longevity. I have difficulty in understanding why the U.S.,
Great Brittain, Canada, etc. sening dozens of bombing raids all over Europe
in 1943, 1944 & 1945 couldn't spare a dozen planes once a week, or once a
month or once a year to destroy the railroad tracks taking people to the
death camps? Why could we not bomb the plants where Ziclon B gas was
manufactured?

The tolerance of the anti-semitism of Pat Buchannan and Pat Robertson in
the 1992 election campaign is part of a broad attitude which ignores the
ethnic cleansing in the Balkans, the ethnic warfare in areas like Azurbyjan
(S. central region of old Soviet Union) and the racial/religious civil
strife in the Sudan. By tolerating, as a nation and a society, these acts
of genocide, we take some steps in the shoes of those whose silence made
Shoah possible.

Sheldon Hanft   (hanfts@appstate.edu)
History Dept.
Appalachian State Univ.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 14 Jun 1993 14:48:33 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Simon Wiesenthal Center Library/Archives 
Subject:      Re:  Brundibar

A second recording of Brundibar has recently become available on the

Romanitic Robot label as part of the two-CD set Terezin 1941-1945.

It is distributed in the US by Albany Music Group.  With an all-Czech

ensemble I believe it to be a superior recording to the one on Channel.

I have found that the children's voices are difficult to understand

on the Channel recording (the orchestra seems far too loud).



The entire set is a superb survey of Terezin music - piano, chamber

music, vocal as well as the recording of Brundibar.

It is however a bit pricy - $40 for the set at Tower.



Paul H. Hamburg

Reference Librarian

Simon Wiesenthal Center

e-mail: simonwie@class.org

,
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 14 Jun 1993 14:51:17 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         "Matthew Spewak" 
Subject:      Neo Natzi BBS's [MTV SPECIAL]

This weekend I was watching MTV news, and they did a bit on neo natzi
underground bbs systems.  These underground systems entitle any user to gain
information on creating and building bombs, napalm, and other various
information on how to obtain ilegal weapons and drugs.  In addition to this, the
users are asked to leave names and addresses of Jews, Blacks, or Gays that they
would like to be "round up".

This news brief particularly disturbed me, as I am an active member on a great
number of useful legitimate bbs's, and find these Hate BBS disgusting.  I hope
that we can do something to stop these bbs, maybe turn them in to the FCC or
FBI.

Also, (although I am not usually impressed by MTV's specials) MTV is airing a
special on Neo Natzis on June 16th.

-MS
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 14 Jun 1993 15:53:12 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Cecelia A Clancy 
Subject:      Dominican Republic Sosua Settlement

Dear Seth,


I have checked _Paper Walls_ by David Wyman and there are a few
things mentioned relevant to the Sousa settlement on pages 50 and
on pages 61 - 62.    Additionally, many references are cited by
Wyman in the Notes section of _Paper Walls_ as well as the
bibliography which follows.

Briefly, he states that at the Envian Conference, the Dominican
Republic alone offered any real offers of a place or of a plan
to settle Jewish refugees from Europe when that conference met
at the French resort town of Evian-les-Bains in July 1938 [1],[2].

I propose that the Evian Conference was nothing more than an excuse
for a junket as far as the majority of its participants were
concerned.     The Conference was called by FDR very soon after
the Anschluss of April 1938, of the 33 invited nations, Italy
alone declined (Wyman writes "refused" [3]).     The conference
was then very swiftly organized - at THAT part of the job.
everybody seemed quite enthusiastic - but once all to those
delegates finally arrived in the resort town, there "enthusiasm"
for "real work" seems to have waned, for very little practical
work, and a lot of "busy work" and "make work" got done there.

And Wyman in _Paper Walls_ [4] suggests that the Dominican
Republic had a primary motive that would surprise us and would
infuriate the hard-core anti-Semites: To increase the percentage
of Whites among the Dominican Republic's populace.     (Among the
hard-core anti-Semites, the Jews are considered to be non-Whites.)

A small settlement, the Sosua settlement, eventually was founded
in the Dominican Republic as result of actions initiated at
the Envian Conference.

Wyman, in the Notes section at the end of his book, cites the
following references that might be helpful in researching
the Sosua settlement [5].


    _Foreign Relations of the United States_, 1938, I, 764-765,
     773, 849

    _Foreign Relations of the United States_, 1939, II, 70-71

    _Foreign Relations of the United States_, 1940 (Washington, 1957)
     II, 213

     Bruno Lasker, "An Atlas of Hope", _Survey Graphic_, XXIX,
     (November 1940), 590.

     Sumner Wells to Franklin D. Roosevelt, February 27, 1939,
     Franklin D. Roosevelt Papers,  Official File 3136,
     _Contemporary Jewish Record_, II (September-October 1939),
     100.

     Dominican Republic Settlement Association, Inc, _Concerning
     Refugee Settlement in the Dominican Republic: A Meeting at
     the Town Hall Club, New York City, February, 1940_ (New
     York, 1940).

           Seth, find out the names of the people who attended
           this meeting, and then, since you are in the NYC
           area, look up the names in the local phone directories.
           Maybe you will find somebody who can give you a
           first-person account.


     Atherton Lee, _Agricultural Possibilities at Sosua Settlement_,
     (New York [1940]), pages 1-2.

     Earl P. Hanson, "New Citizens for Dominica", _Christian
     Science Monitor_, Weekly Magazine Section, August 10, 1940,
     page 13.

     Joseph A. Rosen, "New Neighbors in Sosua", _Survey Graphic_,
     XXX (September, 1941), pages 474-478.

     Dominican Republic Settlement Association, Inc., _Sosua: Haven
     for Refugees in the Domenican Republic (New York, 1941),
     pages 4, 6, 8-10, 16

     _Foreign Relations of the United States_, 1941 (Washington, 1958),
     I, 438.

     _Foreign Relations of the United States_, 1942 (Washington, 1960),
     I, 451-452.

     _Refugee Settlement in the Dominican Republic: A Survey Conducted
     Under the Auspices of the Brookings Institution_ (Washington, 1942),
     285, 287, 327, 331, 332, 340.

     Louise W. Holborn, _The International Refugee Organization_
     (London, 1956), 405.




References:


1.   David S. Wyman, _Paper Walls: America and the Refugee
     Crisis 1938 - 1941_, First Paperback Edition,
     (Panthenon Books, New York, 1985), page 61 - 62

     Based on Wymans doctoral thesis (1966, History Department,
     Harvard University) and originally published by the
     University of Massachusetts Press, Amherst, 1968)


2.   _Ibid_, pages 48-49


3.   _Ibid_, page 45


4.   _Ibid_, page 61


5.   _Ibid_, page 240



******************************************************************

Cecelia Mu"llermeder     muller+@pitt.edu

******************************************************************
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 14 Jun 1993 15:55:02 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Eliot Friedman 
Subject:      Re: Neo Natzi BBS's [MTV SPECIAL]
In-Reply-To:  <9306141640.aa01790@thama1.apgea.army.mil> from "Matthew Spewak"
              at Jun 14, 93 02:51:17 pm

Matthew informed us>
> This weekend I was watching MTV news, and they did a bit on neo natzi
..
..
> Also, (although I am not usually impressed by MTV's specials) MTV is airing a
> special on Neo Natzis on June 16th.

Although I appreciate Matthew's information, one has to wonder what
material like this is doing on MTV, supposedly a MUSIC and ENTERTAINMENT
channel.  Perhaps part of the problem is that the network executives
see Nazism as entertainment, and highly profitable entertainment at that.

-Eliot
ekfriedm@thama1.apgea.army.mil
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 14 Jun 1993 15:56:04 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         STONE@UWPG02.BITNET
Subject:      Protocols of the Elders of lZion

I saw copies of the "Protocols" for sale on a sidewlk table somewhere in
downtown New York City, probably in June 1992.  The table was staffed by
Black Muslims or similarly dressed people.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 14 Jun 1993 16:56:20 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Daniel F Boyd 
Subject:      NEO Natzi BBS's [MTV SPECIAL]
In-Reply-To:  <9306141952.AA06993@electra.cs.buffalo.edu>

"Matthew Spewak" writes:
> This weekend I was watching MTV news, and they did a bit on neo
> natzi underground bbs systems.

The Neo-Nazis also have newsletters, office space, and laser printers;
of course they have BBSs.  BFHD.

> These underground systems entitle any user to gain information on
> creating and building bombs, napalm,

So does the public library.

> and other various information on how to obtain ilegal weapons and
> drugs.

Ask any ex-con.  (This is probably how the Nazis found out.)

> In addition to this, the users are asked to leave names and
> addresses of Jews, Blacks, or Gays that they would like to be "round
> up".

While this is scary-sounding, remember that this nation has civil law
and order.  No gangs of brown-shirted thugs are going to be running
around beating up on people -- it would be all over the local news and
something would be done about it damn quick by the FBI.  This country
still works.

> This news brief particularly disturbed me, as I am an active member
> on a great number of useful legitimate bbs's, and find these Hate
> BBS disgusting.

So do I.  But shutting them down isn't the answer.

> I hope that we can do something to stop these bbs, maybe turn them
> in to the FCC or FBI.

It's not within the government's power to shut them down; this is so
the government can't also shut down that local news program I
mentioned earlier.  The Nazis were able to run Germany because they
controlled all the news and all the sources of information.  To
prevent anything like that from happening here, we explicitly outlaw
any attempt to muzzle anybody.

It means the Neo-Nazis can repetitively auto-post all the paranoid
ravings they want to alt.censorship and soc.history -- but it also
means that no Nazi-sympathizer local sheriff or police chief could
muzzle the media and cover up neo-Nazi activities in his community.

That's why we don't want censorship in this country.  It doesn't work
and it lets bad people get control.

> Also, (although I am not usually impressed by MTV's specials) MTV is airing a
> special on Neo Natzis on June 16th.

Of course, everything on MTV is sociopathic silliness and should be
outlawed immediately!  (Here I'm kidding.  Though you might make a
case that "Achy Breaky Heart" is an abomination.)


Daniel F. Boyd -- boyd@cs.buffalo.edu
Department of Computer Science, 226 Bell Hall
Buffalo NY 14260
Office: Trailer A (716) 645-3774
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 14 Jun 1993 16:58:07 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Aviad Sheinfeld 
Subject:      Re: Neo Natzi BBS's [MTV SPECIAL]
In-Reply-To:  <199306142056.AA13378@ftpbox.mot.com> from "Eliot Friedman" at
              Jun 14, 93 03:55:02 pm

>From the fingertips of Eliot Friedman came forth:
>
> Matthew informed us>
> > This weekend I was watching MTV news, and they did a bit on neo natzi
> .
> .
> > Also, (although I am not usually impressed by MTV's specials) MTV is airing
a
> > special on Neo Natzis on June 16th.
>
> Although I appreciate Matthew's information, one has to wonder what
> material like this is doing on MTV, supposedly a MUSIC and ENTERTAINMENT
> channel.  Perhaps part of the problem is that the network executives
> see Nazism as entertainment, and highly profitable entertainment at that.
>
> -Eliot
> ekfriedm@thama1.apgea.army.mil
>

Eliot,

Well, that is one way to see it.  MTV is actually more of a "young
viewers" network than a strictly "music television" network.  They
have plenty of shows and specials that deal with issues like
environmentalism, safe sex, voting, etc.  Perhaps we should wait to
see the special before taking a negative stance against its
legitimacy.  And if the show turns out to be informative and raises
even a few people's awareness of the problems which are still very
much alive today, we should applaud the network for its social
responsibility.

How can you jump the gun and denounce MTV for bringing up such an
important issue?  Remember that the audience will be largely young.
MTV viewers feel empowered to change the future, why stifle them?

Do you feel that a special on Nazism today would make more of an
impact if shown on MTV during prime time, or on PBS some Sunday
morning?

The spread of information is crucial.

Aviad
"A young person"
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 14 Jun 1993 16:59:36 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
Comments:     Converted from PROFS to RFC822 format by PUMP V2.2
From:         Ksenia Kopystynska 
Subject:      RE: Anti-semitism
In-Reply-To:  note of 93-06-14 13:37

From: Ksenia Kopystynska
                                       Education Library
                                       University of Alberta
I agree with Lin. Almost always when I want to get in some contact with
Jews I am automatically accused of being antysemitic because I am a Pole.
Often I am not given any chance to prove that I am not. I am being  accused
of all sins from the past. Doesn't matter what I say is wrong. How to
change it? I do not know. Sorry for what I will say, but I think that you used
to antysemitism so much that it become essential for your identity to this
degree that it is difficult to convince you that not always is like that.
And one more thing. In my understanding I am responsible for things I do
or do not. I am not responsible for past and for other people deeds.
Judge me for what I am not for what others did to you.

Ksenia Kopystynska

                                       Regards,
                                       Ksenia
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 15 Jun 1993 13:28:49 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         "Richard S. Levy" 
Subject:      Protocols

The Protocols of the Elders of Zion can be had in many languages and in
many libraries.  Henry Ford published an English language version in the
20s, but there are many others.  You can find a representative chunk of
it translated into English (from a German version) in Richard S. Levy,
Antisemitism in the Modern World:  an Anthology of Texts (D. C. Heath,
1990).  Pardon the advertisement.  Norman Cohn's book is informative
about the various incarnations of the forgery and the materials which
went into its production by the Paris branch of the Okhrana in the
mid-1890s.  But it doesn't reproduce much text.

Don't join the Nazi party.  Take it out of the library and hie thee to a
xerox machine.

Richard S. Levy
UIC
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 15 Jun 1993 13:30:06 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         lin collette 
Subject:      Re: Protocols of the Elders of Zion
In-Reply-To:  Message of Mon, 14 Jun 1993 11:53:48 CDT from 

One does not have to join a neo-nazi group to get the Protocols.  For example,
 copies are readily available for loan from my institution's library, although
I do own my own copy.  However, to purchase a copy, you may need to get a cata-
 log from a right wing group, such as Noontide Press or Liberty Bell Publica-
tions.  Quite frankly, this is probably the only 'easy' source you're going to
find.  Hold your nose and do it; I do, in the name of research, and not because
 I subscribe to their principles

lin collette (bi599128@brownvm or bi599128@brownvm.brown.edu)
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 15 Jun 1993 13:31:53 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         BERMAN E-MAIL 
Subject:      RE: NEO Natzi BBS's [MTV SPECIAL]

Luckily, In Canada, where sanity prevails, I believe it is possible to
shut down BBS's which promote hatred.

        That said, Canada is one of the leading exporters in the world of
hate and holocaust denial literature.

        That said, a mob of antiracists trashed the toronto home of a
known hate-monger / neo-nazi last week as 12 police officers looked on. While
there is an investigation going on as to why they allowed it to happen (I
for one, while having no sympathy for the victim, was surprised at the police
inactivity) the cops said that most of the riot police had been sent to
another location, the home of the leader of the more prominent HERITAGE
FRONT (Wolfgang Droege), in anticipation of an attack there and there were
too few police on hand to prevent damage without people being hurt.

        HMM...................


        Incidentally, aside from a few campus efforts, where have the jews been
while thousands of Bosnians, Serbs and Croates are getting ethnically cleansed?
I know that it is hard to chose who is right or wrong in this mess, but should
we not be standing up and pressing for UN invasion and peace creation?

        How can we ask WHY? to the question of allied support for us if we do
not push for that same support for the innocent victims that are in trouble
now?


HAL BERMAN
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 15 Jun 1993 13:32:56 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         BERMAN E-MAIL 
Subject:      RE: Anti-semitism

In reply to the remarks by Ksenia Kopystynska:

        I understand your beef with jews that automatically consider
you to be an anti-semite. I would say you must hang around the wrong
Jews because we're not all like that. By the same token, I would
Jews because we're not all like that. By the same token, I would
suggest that those Jews have been hanging around the wrong Poles
because they have built up a stereotype which you emphasize is wrong.


        I don't know. I have met polish non-jews in my short, 24 year
lifespan. None of the ones I've gotten to know have shown any signs
of anti-semitism. Many of the Poles my grandfather knew when he lived
there were friendly to him. Others were not so friendly. One has only
(disregard the last three words of the above line)

        On the other hand, while there were some Poles who hid Jews, some
did so at great cost (others, hiding children tried to Baptize them and
turn them into Christians, and the current pope is known for having refused to
do this in one case, to his credit). And there were far too many Poles who
sold a Jew's life for a pound of sugar.

        The problem is similar to the problem many Jews have with Germans. The
generalization is that The Germans started it and the Poles willingly helped
as best they could. This is inaccurate because there were obviously some
righteous people, albeit a minority.

        It is wrong for people to assume that you are an anti-semite just
because you are Polish. I hope this does not colour your opinion of
all jews because of the "once-bitten-twice-shy" attitude of those you have
met.

Respectfully,

HAL BERMAN


I welcome comments or replies (BERMAN@MARS.SENECAC.On.CA)
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 15 Jun 1993 13:34:32 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         FISHMAN@SNYFARVA.BITNET
Subject:      Re:  Brundibar

Mr. Hamburg,

     Many thanks for information about the two-CD Terezin music set, inclusive
of the Brundibar.

     Do you have either of the following in your archives and data files:

a. poems (in any language) about the Holocaust that would be suitable for my in-
progress anthology, _Flames Ascending: World Poets on the Holocaust_?  I believe
you have at least one copy of my earlier work, _Blood to Remember: American
Poets on the Holocaust_.  If you have appropriate material for the new work, I
can communicate with you by private post, fax, etc.

b. a list of Holocaust studies program and/or professors in this country and
Canada?


    I will look forward to reading your reply.


                --Cordially,

                        Charles Fishman
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 15 Jun 1993 13:35:47 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         FISHMAN@SNYFARVA.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Neo Natzi BBS's [MTV SPECIAL]

MS,

        I urge you to contact the Simon Wiesenthal Center regarding these
underground bbs.  If they are advocating violence against specific groups and
individuals--as the lists you mention would imply--the Center should be able to
help.

***************
        Charles
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 15 Jun 1993 15:05:12 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Marilyn Engel 

I am interested in receiving any information on

                Januzs Korschak

including his educational philosophy, his books,
his orphanages, his radio broadcasts, his time in
the concentration with his orphanage children,
as well as the names, mail and possibly email
addresses and phone numbers of people who worked
with him and/or were wards or students of his.

The names and addresses of schools and/or teachers
using his educational methods would also be very helpful.

Please send any of the above information as well
as any other pertinent information to

        mkengel@gn.ecn.purdue.edu

for Liba Engel.

Thank you.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 15 Jun 1993 15:08:18 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Eliot Friedman 
Subject:      Why don't we take a stand on ex-Yugoslavia?
In-Reply-To:  <9306151442.aa00308@thama1.apgea.army.mil> from "BERMAN E-MAIL"
              at Jun 15, 93 01:31:53 pm

Hal Berman asks>

>Incidentally, aside from a few campus efforts, where have the jews been
>while thousands of Bosnians, Serbs and Croates are getting ethnically
>cleansed?

>I know that it is hard to chose who is right or wrong in this mess,
>but should we not be standing up and pressing for UN invasion and
>peace creation?

>How can we ask WHY? to the question of allied support for us if we do
>not push for that same support for the innocent victims that are in
>trouble now?

This is a tough one.  Many well-intentioned people think "something
must be done".  Perhaps foremost among them is Elie Weisel, who
stressed this topic at the opening of the Holocaust Museum in
Washington, DC recently.

The question is, what CAN be done?  From a military point of view, not
much.  In ex-Yugoslavia, there are a lot of people with guns who
REALLY want to kill each other, and have been doing so for HUNDREDS of
years.  Simply sending in UN or NATO troops, no matter how pure their
intentions, won't solve the problem.

Witness the recent events in Somalia.  UN troops, on a "mission of
mercy", were attacked by a Somali faction.  Now UN forces are
attacking and killing the Somalis they were sent in to "save".  Having
the biggest and best army doesn't necessarily mean one can make
everything work out beautifully.

Looking back to the Nazi era (funny how current events are turning it
into just "another" holocaust), I now have a better understanding of
what it must have been like for many of those people we now accuse of
having "stood by" while it all happened.  I know what's going on in
ex-Yugoslavia, I deplore it, I want to do something to stop it, but
I have no idea how.  Just sending in more guns won't stop the killing.

-Eliot
ekfriedm@thama1.apgea.army.mil
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 15 Jun 1993 16:51:43 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         "Sam Edelman, Ph.D." 

For the person interested in Korczak see the Betty Jean Lifton Book.  It is
most comprehensive.  The Ghetto Fighters Museum publishes his diary and there
is an excellent work on his collected writing on education published by UNESCO.
Sam Edelman
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 16 Jun 1993 09:33:34 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Holocaust Center--San Francisco 
Subject:      Re: your mail
In-Reply-To:  <9306152201.AA00695@cs.sfsu.edu>; from "Sam Edelman,
              Ph.D." at Jun 15, 93 4:51 pm

>
> For the person interested in Korczak see the Betty Jean Lifton Book.  It is
> most comprehensive.  The Ghetto Fighters Museum publishes his diary and there
> is an excellent work on his collected writing on education published by UNESCO
..
> Sam Edelman
>
Sam, June 21 at 12:30 PM is fine. Will see you then.
Barbara Goodman
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 16 Jun 1993 09:34:46 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Louis de Groot 
Subject:      Re: your mail
In-Reply-To:  <9306152201.AA00695@cs.sfsu.edu>; from "Sam Edelman,
              Ph.D." at Jun 15, 93 4:51 pm

Sam,

We have experienced system's troubles so I am forwarding Barbara Goodman's
message that she will be happy to meet with you at 12:30 PM on 6/21.

Louis de Groot
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 16 Jun 1993 14:28:30 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         "Robert A. Book" 
Subject:      RE: Anti-semitism
In-Reply-To:  <9306142243.AA26071@moe.rice.edu>; from "Ksenia Kopystynska" at
              Jun 14, 93 4:59 pm

> From: Ksenia Kopystynska
>                                        Education Library
>                                        University of Alberta
> I agree with Lin. Almost always when I want to get in some contact with
> Jews I am automatically accused of being antysemitic because I am a Pole.
> Often I am not given any chance to prove that I am not. I am being  accused

I am Jewish, and I never assume that anyone is antisemitic unless they
show some evidence of it.  I have been friendly with many people who
are Polish, German, and even Arab, and only a few have shown signs of
antisemitism.  Some have been close friends, yet quite aware that I
was Jewish.  In some cases, I was the first Jew they ever knew well,
and I think that by being friendly and open and accepting, I showed
them that there was nothing "wrong" with Jews, and probably greatly
reduced the chances that those individuals would end up antisemitic.

I don't know if we can solve the problems of bigotry one friendship at
a time, but it sure couldn't hurt.

--Robert Book
  Rice University
  rbook@rice.edu
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 16 Jun 1993 14:29:38 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         RUEDNBRG@NYUACF.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Anti-semitism

Every person is a combination of both individual traits and collective,
cultural attitudes, as well as generational ones. We all inherit certain
unresolved issues from our parents, and cultural blueprints, that shape
the way we respond to the present. To assume that we are a tabula raza is
naive. To assume that we cannot overcome inherited assumptions and attitudes
and form independent, individual lives, is defeatist.

To the Polish woman who feels persecuted by Jewish mistrust - she would do
well to first acknowledge the antisemitism and indifference of Poles during
World War II, even if she was not born then. Acknowledge the facts. You will
only gain respect for this. Then go find some new Jewish friends who don't
need to find an antisemite under every stone.

To Jews who cry antisemitism (particularly diaspora Jews) every time they
don't get their way - get a life. A victim identity is not attractive or
healthy.

To the woman who wants to change Michel's feelings about non-Jews, forget
it. You didn't go through what he did, and thankfully never will. In his
experience, most non-Jews were antisemitic - it was in a time and a place
where that was true. Vent your energies in other directions. Don't try to
change a survivor's feelings. Instead, if you listen, you might learn
something. This doesn't mean you have swallow other people's conclusions as
lessons for yourself. Don't take it so personally.

sorry this got so long...

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Lucia Ruedenberg
New York University
Dept of Performance Studies
Email: ruednbrg@ACFcluster.NYU.EDU
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 16 Jun 1993 14:31:23 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         RUEDNBRG@NYUACF.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Why?

Date sent: 15-JUN-1993

Fishman:

Here's another poem, written by a survivor friend of mine.
If you are still accepting contributions to your anthology and are
interested, contact me directly at the address below.

---------------------------
Eli, Eli, Lama Asabthani?

Blessed are those
Who, in the fullness of time,
     Pass on -
Peacefully in their beds,
Surrounded by gentleness
To ease their pain, hold their hands,
And comfort them.
They are loved, and mourned,
And flowers cover their graves.

They are forever the envy of those
     Who perished
In mute despair,
Twisted shapes by the roadside
     In cramped, foul-smelling barracks
              Tormented, degraded
              Torn from their past
              Robbed of their future
                              Betrayed by humanity.

No flowers for them,
Only smoke
     Coiling contorted, accusing fingers
              At the sky.

The agony of another man -
     Of many -
Echoes through the centuries:

             God, my God,
                     Why hast thou forsaken me - ?

                                                     Marianne Bern
---------------------------------------------------------------------
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Lucia Ruedenberg
New York University
Dept of Performance Studies
Email: ruednbrg@ACFcluster.NYU.EDU
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 16 Jun 1993 14:32:51 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Bruce White 3807 
Subject:      Ethnic cleansing

> Incidentally, aside from a few campus efforts, where have the jews been
> while thousands of Bosnians, Serbs and Croates are getting ethnically
> cleansed?
> I know that it is hard to chose who is right or wrong in this mess,
> but should we not be standing up and pressing for UN invasion and peace
> creation?
>
> How can we ask WHY? to the question of allied support for us if we do
> not push for that same support for the innocent victims that are in trouble
> now?
>
>
> HAL BERMAN
>

I think that's a good point. I had seen a TV show a few years ago which
I believe Ed Asner hosted. He discussed how the US military had been flying
aircraft directly over one of the concentration camps, and showed a picture
of the camp (maybe it was Auschwitz) taken from one of the planes. I
think that a survivor of the camp was interviewed and he had prayed that
the Allies bomb the camp.

Is it possible that Roosevelt gave orders not to bomb the concentration
camps?

With regard to the slaughter of civilians in Yugoslavia, what is the
Moslem world doing to aid their brothers who are being murdered?

Bruce
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 16 Jun 1993 14:37:14 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         "Richard S. Levy" 
Subject:      dealing with the devil

I think it's a symbolically big mistake to support the radical right by
buying their books.  Most versions of the Protocols are short and, if
not already in the public domain, safely xeroxable.  I doubt anyone can
or would claim copyright rights.  Moreover, you don't want to get onto the Whit
e Power-Revisionist-Liberty Lobby paranoid mailing list, do you?

Richard S. Levy
UIC
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 16 Jun 1993 14:38:32 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         "Daud R. Matthews" 
Subject:      Anti-semetic?

According to the Oxford Dictionary (learners edition) semetic refers to of the
Hebrews and Arabs.

For my part I wonder how all Jews can be semites when some are NOT descended
from the "Children of Israel" having embraced Judaism through conversion,
as in the case of many from the xUSSR?

Hal's comment on where are the Jews with respect to the situation in Bosnia,
secondhand I understand of the nominal 2000 Jews in Sarajevo 1000 have left,
they saw the situation developing and had passports etc all organized. The
1000 or so left have organized the Synogogue in Sarajaveo as an emergency
aid centre for the Muslims, thanx to them. Apparently, this is partially in
gratitude for what the Muslims did for them when the Nazi's came.

I wonder how long it will be before what is happening to the Turks in
Germany starts to include the Jews (again)?

Those who really are upset by anti-semetics might like to ponder on this.

In fact, no one seems to mention the Spanish Inquisition and the Ottomans
offering a safe haven for the Jews. Where is this situation today?
IMHO Christianity is the most intolerant religion.
Peace
Daud R. Matthews: King Saud University, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia.

P.S. I have met many Jews whom I would personally refer to as "paranoid".
     By this I mean, they over emphasise the situation, AND I do not mean
     this offensively.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 16 Jun 1993 16:32:06 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Daniel F Boyd 
Subject:      Anti-semetic?
In-Reply-To:  <9306161939.AB23010@electra.cs.buffalo.edu>

"Daud R. Matthews" writes:
> According to the Oxford Dictionary (learners edition) semetic refers
> to of the Hebrews and Arabs.

It's 'semitic'.

The word 'antisemitism' is taken from the name of a political party in
(I think Germany) in the (I think 19th) century.  They called
themselves the 'Anti-Semites' and they hated Jews.  Jews don't call
themselves 'Semites', they call themselves Jews.

Jewish people didn't make up that word.

'Semitic' also refers to a linguistic grouping which includes both
Hebrew and Arabic, but that's also irrelevant as far as ending wars
goes -- both sides spoke the same language at Yorktown and Gettysburg.

> For my part I wonder how all Jews can be semites when some are NOT descended
> from the "Children of Israel" having embraced Judaism through conversion,
> as in the case of many from the xUSSR?

What difference does it make?  If the conversion is according to
Jewish law, then the convert is truly and fully a Jew.  Your question
gets more at the inadequacies of natural language for describing set
theory than it does at who's Jewish and who isn't, or who's a semite
and who isn't.

It's like asking, "Well, if 'American' means 'someone from America',
and if someone born in Japan moves to the US and becomes a United
States Citizen, then how can all US Citizens be Americans?"  It's a
dumb question, and the wrong answer to it meant that innocent people
lost their homes and businesses.  Who your parents were matters a lot
less than what you do with the life they've given you.


Daniel F. Boyd -- boyd@cs.buffalo.edu
Department of Computer Science, 226 Bell Hall
Buffalo NY 14260
Office: Trailer A (716) 645-3774
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 16 Jun 1993 16:33:13 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         "Robert A. Book" 
Subject:      Re: Ethnic cleansing
In-Reply-To:  <9306161938.AA21943@moe.rice.edu>; from "Bruce White 3807" at Jun
              16, 93 2:32 pm

Bruce writes:
> Is it possible that Roosevelt gave orders not to bomb the concentration
> camps?

Roosevelt did not give orders not to bomb the camps.  He did, however,
turn down requests to order special bombings of the camps.  The
general policy was to bomb only military targets.  Since they
did not directly support the German war effort, the camps were not
considered military targets.  (The bombimg of German cities, such as
Dresden and Hamburg, was aimed at military targets such as factories
and airports.)


> With regard to the slaughter of civilians in Yugoslavia, what is the
> Moslem world doing to aid their brothers who are being murdered?

Iran and Turkey are reported to be smuggling arms to the Bosnian
Muslims.  The others have merely protested the fact that Israel
admitted 150 Bosnian Muslim refugees.

--Robert Book
  rbook@rice.edu
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 16 Jun 1993 16:34:35 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         "Robert A. Book" 
Subject:      Re: dealing with the devil
In-Reply-To:  <9306161941.AA21985@moe.rice.edu>; from "Richard S. Levy" at Jun
              16, 93 2:37 pm

> I think it's a symbolically big mistake to support the radical right by
> buying their books.  Most versions of the Protocols are short and, if
> not already in the public domain, safely xeroxable.  I doubt anyone can
> or would claim copyright rights.  Moreover, you don't want to get onto the Whi
t
> e Power-Revisionist-Liberty Lobby paranoid mailing list, do you?


Getting on the mailing list might not be so bad, since you would find
out what your up to.  (Use an assumed name, though, in case you ever have
political aspirations and the list is leaked. :-)  My problem would be
giving them money, even to obtain a book or something.  The
_Protocols_ were written by the Russian Imperial (Czarist) secret
police in the 19th century, so by now the copyright is in the public
domain.

--Robert Book
  rbook@rice.edu
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 17 Jun 1993 10:14:11 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         "Sam Edelman, Ph.D." 
Subject:      Re: Ethnic cleansing

I suggest you look at Marty Gilbert's Auschwitz and the Allies for a definitive
analysis of Roosevelt and Churchils role in not attacking Auschwitz.  Sam
Edelman
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 17 Jun 1993 10:15:28 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Jeffrey Shallit 
Subject:      the meaning of 'anti-semitism'

> From: "Daud R. Matthews" 
> Subject:      Anti-semetic?
> To: Multiple recipients of list HOLOCAUS 
>
> According to the Oxford Dictionary (learners edition) semetic refers to of the
> Hebrews and Arabs.
>
> For my part I wonder how all Jews can be semites when some are NOT descended
> from the "Children of Israel" having embraced Judaism through conversion,
> as in the case of many from the xUSSR?
>

You need a better dictionary.

One that spells "anti-semitism" correctly would be a good start.

Consider the following:

        'Antisemitism' is a problematic term, first invented in the
        1870s by the German journalist Wilhelm Marr to describe
        the 'non-confessional' hatred of Jews and Judaism which he
        and others like him advocated...

        'Antisemitism' -- a term which came into general use as
        part of this politically motivated anti-Jewish campaign of
        the 1880s -- was never directed against 'Semites' as such....

        ...As a result, for the last hundred years, the illogical
        term 'antisemitsm', which never really meant hatred of
        'Semites' (for example, Arabs) at all, but rather hatred of
        Jews, has come to be accepted in general usage as denoting
        *all* forms of hostility towards Jews and Judaism throughout
        history.

        -- Robert S. Wistrich, Antisemitism:  The Longest Hatred,
        Thames Mandarin, 1992.

Jeff Shallit


The trouble with people is not that they don't know but that they know so
much that ain't so.
Josh Billings' Encyclopedia of Wit and Wisdom (1874)
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 17 Jun 1993 10:16:57 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Jeff Finger 
Subject:      Mr. Matthews' Posting on Jew-Hatred

The entire tenor of this posting was insidiously nasty and
patronizing.  Whether Mr.  Matthews intended it this way or not, I
cannot judge.

I do believe that there is something important to glean from his
posting, however: The term "anti-semitism" is a euphemism invented by
Jew-Haters to lend legitimacy to the hatred of Jews. It is not a term
we should use. It sounds so wonderfully genteel! Let's call it what it
is: Jew-Hatred. Can anyone imagine the reaction if one said, "Please,
don't say that I am bigotted against Blacks. I am simply an anti-Ethiope!"

>> Peace
>> Daud R. Matthews: King Saud University, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia.
>>

It is interesting to be admonished by someone in *Saudi Arabia* that
we have overemphasize Jew-hatred!

  - How many Jews are there at King Saud University?

  - Would a Jew be hired as a professor (or anything else) at any
    university in Saudi Arabia?

  - Can a Jew be a citizen in Saudi Arabia?

  - Can a Jew own land in Saudi Arabia?

  - Can a Jew visit Saudi Arabia?

  - Would construction of a synagogue be permitted in Saudi Arabia?

  - Does Saudi Arabia continue to participate in the Arab Boycott of
    Israel, both primary and secondary?

  - Is Saudi Arabia in a state of war with Israel?

Who is paranoid here? The incredible outpouring of hatred toward Jews
from the Moslem and in particular the Arab (speaking of imprecise terms)
World is obscene indeed.

And now we will no doubt hear tell us about how Arabs have nothing
against Jews, only Zionists. Right. The contempt with which Jews were
treated in the Arab World in the many centuries prior to 1948 is well
documented.

-- Itzhak "Jeff" Finger --
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 17 Jun 1993 10:19:15 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         lin collette 
Subject:      Re: Anti-semitism
In-Reply-To:  Message of Wed, 16 Jun 1993 14:29:38 CDT from 

I believe I'm the person referred to who is described as 'wanting to change
Michel's feelings'.  This is a statement that truly is condescending, one that
implies that NOTHING I have ever experienced can ever possibly be as horrible
as that experienced by a Holocaust survivor.  I beg to differ, actually, as you
 don't know my family background but taht's besides the point anyway.  The
point I was attempting to make in my post concerning the constant generaliza-
tions made concerning the motivations and actions of entire peoples was simply
that while it's necessary to face facts about events, one still should avoid
generalizations and stereotyping whenever possible.  Too many assumptions are
made about people without really looking at them, and I regarded Michel's com-
ments as being emblematic of that.  Incidentally, I don't like to be lectured
to, and told to 'listen' to so-and-so because "i might learn something.'  Jud-
ging from the state of this sorry world we inhabit, WE ALL have a lot to learn
from each other.  As for the woman of Polish descent, I think we all know the
roles of the Poles in the holocaust, but do we admit to the American role or
the English or the French?  We all share the blame collectively in a sense,
but there comes a time when the blaming must stop and we must move on, hoping
against hope that it never happens again.

lin collette
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 17 Jun 1993 10:21:19 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         lin collette 
Subject:      Re: dealing with the devil
In-Reply-To:  Message of Wed, 16 Jun 1993 14:37:14 CDT from 

It depends.  I deal with the devil all the time in the course of my research,
and I'm on about a million mailing lists run by these people because I need to
know what's going on, unfiltered through the lenses of groups with axes to
grind.  I.E., going to the original sources.  If these idiots want to waste
their money mailing me things and not getting much money back from me, wonder-
ful; it's their postage and their printing costs that are going up, not mine.
Sometimes one has to travel into the darkness to get to the light, and after
an evening spent filing some of the dreck I've been getting, it definitely
seems dark out there.

But then again, I'm doing this for a specific purpose and not because I part-
icularly want to support the groups' activities.  I don't expect everyone to
operate as I do, but I was pointing out that if someone wants to get the
Protocols for long term study and research, then you're better off buying it,
and few non-racist groups sell it.

lin collette
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 17 Jun 1993 12:59:48 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         FISHMAN@SNYFARVA.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Why?

Lucia,

        I appreciate your sharing your friend's poems with me, but I was
surprised that you addressed me as "Fishman:" . . . I don't mean to be overly
sensitive about this, but I doubt you would have felt kindly toward me had I
responded to your previous note about anti-Semitism and bigotry (which impressed
me with its clarity and good sense) by beginning my note, "Ruedenberg:"

        In regard to the poem, I'll read it carefully and make a decision on
whether or not I want to keep it on file:  I have a batch of poems that came to
my attention after I completed editing _Blood to Remember_ and which I will
consider for inclusion in a revised edition, should that option be opened to me.

        Again, my thanks for writing.

***************
        Charles
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 17 Jun 1993 13:01:14 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Daniel Lellouch 
Subject:      Re: Ethnic cleansing
In-Reply-To:  Message of Wed, 16 Jun 1993 16:33:13 CDT from 

On Wed, 16 Jun 1993 16:33:13 CDT Robert A. Book said:


>
>Roosevelt did not give orders not to bomb the camps.  He did, however,
>turn down requests to order special bombings of the camps.  The
>general policy was to bomb only military targets.  Since they
>did not directly support the German war effort, the camps were not
>considered military targets.


More than that: since the Germans were spending tremendous resources
to carry out the 'final solution', it was military worthwhile to let them
do.

daniel lellouch
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 17 Jun 1993 13:02:29 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Daniel Lellouch 
Subject:      Re: Anti-semetic?
In-Reply-To:  Message of Wed, 16 Jun 1993 14:38:32 CDT from 

On Wed, 16 Jun 1993 14:38:32 CDT Daud R. Matthews said:
>
>
>The left [Jews] have organized the Synogogue in Sarajaveo as an emergency
>aid centre for the Muslims, thanx to them. Apparently, this is partially in
>gratitude for what the Muslims did for them when the Nazi's came.
>


a more correct statement would be: "for what some individual Muslims did"


daniel lellouch
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 17 Jun 1993 13:04:48 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Eliot Friedman 
Subject:      Re: the meaning of 'anti-semitism'
In-Reply-To:  <9306171126.aa29776@thama1.apgea.army.mil> from "Jeffrey Shallit"
              at Jun 17, 93 10:15:28 am

Daud asks>

>
>For my part I wonder how all Jews can be semites when some are NOT descended
>from the "Children of Israel" having embraced Judaism through conversion,
>as in the case of many from the xUSSR?
>

I doubt that many xUSSR Jews can trace their origin back to conversion.
A religion so widely persecuted in Russian history would hardly seem
attractive to potential converts.  Moreover, Judaism, unlike Islam, does
not seek converts.

Your statement is reflective of Arab propaganda that attempts to convince
the world that [non-semitic] European Jews have no valid claim to any
territory in the Middle East.

-Eliot
ekfriedm@thama1.apgea.army.mil
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 17 Jun 1993 16:11:07 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         HANFTS@conrad.appstate.edu
Subject:      Re: Anti-semetic?

I short reply to Daniel F Boyd about the origins of Semite or semitic. It is
from 19th century racial/linguistic/ethnic theory which posits all peoples
and therefore language groups descending from the sons of Noah, egro semites
and semetic languages from his son Shem, Hemetic from Ham, etc...
For those unfamiliar with it, the Oxford Etomological Dictionary is a
wonderful tool.
Sheldon Hanft, (Hanfts@Appstate.edu)
History Dept.
Appalachian State University
Boone, NC 28608
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 17 Jun 1993 16:15:19 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Jerry Rosenberg 
Subject:      bombings

A good resource on the role of Roosevelt and Churchill in not ordering
bombings of the camps can be found in While Six Million Died and in the Wyman
book the Abandonment of the Jews. A survivor friend of mine from Auschwitz-
Birkenau, told me she could hear the planes and bombs falling on other parts of
of the Auschwitz complex, less then a mile of where she was held and it would
have been very easy to bomb the gas chambers and cremetoria. Transcripts of
ground to air messages during some of these raids indicate that requests were
made to bomb the camps and the pilots were told that was not their mission nor
was it current military policy.  It must be remembered that during those years
anti-semitism was very strong in the US and members of Roosevelts cabinet
strongly urged him not to appear to be going to war to save Jewish lives but
to defeat a terrible enemy, who when defeated, would end the destruction of
the Jews. The freedom of information act has made available many documents
that paint a very freightening picture of the allies during this period.
The military issue becomes very disturbing considering that the allies had
dominance in the air which would have allowed the camp bombings to be done
with no real threat to the pilots and their crews.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 17 Jun 1993 16:19:53 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         lin collette 
Subject:      Re: Mr. Matthews' Posting on Jew-Hatred
In-Reply-To:  Message of Thu,
              17 Jun 1993 10:16:57 CDT from 

I, too, found Mr. Matthews' posting problematic because of his characterization
of Christianity as the most intolerant religion.  As a Christian, yeah, hell,
I admit the Church IS intolerant, but submit that this is the case in every
other faith as well.  I don't know of any church that doesn't believe that it's
the one true faith and that aids the development of intolerance against other
ways of following whatever God you follow.  Since I deal with people from a
myriad of faiths, I have noticed the same intolerance directed against each
other no matter what faith one's of--pagan, Christian, Jewish, Muslim, etc.

I would add that Islam is not only unhappy with Judaism, but that Iran is mak-
ing a concerted effort to eliminate   Bah'a'is from its country.          But
then I guess that's not an example of intolerance, right?

lin collette
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 17 Jun 1993 16:22:35 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Bruce White 3807 
Subject:      Another new mail list

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

   JIWD is a newsletter which will be sent out every three months.  This
   is text of academic articles written by known authors on the subject
   of world politics in general and on Israel and the middle-east in
   particular.

   Here is an example of articles written:

      Vol 6, Bulletin 1, March 1993

        1 "Demilitarization is No Answer"
             Bernard Smith

        2 "Threats in the Post-Cold War Age"
             Sherman, Sir Alfred

        3 "Reviving "the Concept": Implications for Israel's Security"
             Bernes, Prof Louis Rene

   This newsletter is published by The Jerusalem Institute for Western
   Defense headed by Yohanan Ramati in Jerusalem.

   To Subscribe:

   Mail: listserv@jerusalem1.datasrv.co.il
   Subject:
   Text: sub jiwd firstname lastname

   Note: This is a "receive-only" distribution list.

   Jerusalem One Network Manager:  Zvi Lando  lando@brachot.jct.ac.il
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 17 Jun 1993 16:23:49 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         "Kenneth.Waltzer" <21409MGR@msu.edu>
Subject:      Re: Ethnic cleansing
In-Reply-To:  The letter of Thursday, 17 June 1993 2:03pm ET

If memory serves, Roosevelt was not directly involved with operational
decisions about bombing or not bombing camps.  Rather the decisionmaking was
taken in the War Department and the persons involved included John J. McCloy
and others.  See David Wyman's book, The Abandonment of the Jews.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 17 Jun 1993 16:25:12 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         "Sam Edelman, Ph.D." 
Subject:      Re: Anti-semetic?

I should like to point out to people on the list that it was from these same
Bosnian Moslems that the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, ally of Hitler, drew his
Moslem fighting unit which was involved in many actions against Jews and fought
with units of the SS.  The actions of the Jewish community to help Bosnian
Moslems has nothing to do with any gratitude for actions in the past (although
there are stories of many Moslem families protecting their Jewish neighbors.)
It has to do with acting toward others as we would have them act toward us.
Sam Edelman
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 17 Jun 1993 17:02:15 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Michael Zvi Krumbein 
Subject:      Re: the meaning of 'anti-semitism'
In-Reply-To:  <9306171415.aa19426@thama1.apgea.army.mil> from "Eliot Friedman"
              at Jun 17, 93 01:04:48 pm

Eliot Friedman writes:
>
> Daud asks>
>
> >
> >For my part I wonder how all Jews can be semites when some are NOT descended
> >from the "Children of Israel" having embraced Judaism through conversion,
> >as in the case of many from the xUSSR?
> >
>
> I doubt that many xUSSR Jews can trace their origin back to conversion.
> A religion so widely persecuted in Russian history would hardly seem
> attractive to potential converts.  Moreover, Judaism, unlike Islam, does
> not seek converts.
Actually, there is evidence (this is second hand) that there was an ongoing
competition in the old days. Whole towns used to convert to Judaism.

This is brought as a possible explanation for the particularly virulent strain
of Russian Anti-Semitism. (Anti-Semitism proper, of course, needs no
explanation.)
> Your statement is reflective of Arab propaganda that attempts to convince
> the world that [non-semitic] European Jews have no valid claim to any
> territory in the Middle East.
>
> -Eliot
> ekfriedm@thama1.apgea.army.mil
Actually, I think that you guys are too hard on him, considering where he is
coming from.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 17 Jun 1993 17:03:13 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Brad Cox 
Subject:      Re: dealing with the devil

I'm virtually certain I saw the Protocols somewhere in the "obi" directory
on world.std.com. Try the "rants" subdirectory. Whoever tracks it down
there should post precise instructions.

approximate instructions:
ftp world.std.com
login: ftp
password: youremailaddress
cd obi/rants
get filename
--
       Brad Cox; bcox@gmu.edu; 703 968 8229 Voice 703 968 8798 Fax
       George Mason Program on Social and Organizational Learning
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 17 Jun 1993 17:04:31 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         RUEDNBRG@NYUACF.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Why?

Date sent: 17-JUN-1993

Dear Charles -

forgive me for addressing my posting with your last name. Actually, at first
I thought I would post to you privately, but then I thought others on the list
might like to read it as well.

I had intended to write your first name, but as it was late, by the time
I finished typing out the poem, I neglected to go back to the beginning and
correct it. I can imagine it looked a bit strange !!

Thanks for the compliment on my other posting.
Forgive my sloppy e-mail manners :-(.

Lucia.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 18 Jun 1993 09:50:01 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         RUEDNBRG@NYUACF.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Anti-semitism

Date sent: 17-JUN-1993

Lin -

>implies that NOTHING I have ever experienced can ever possibly be as horrible
>as that experienced by a Holocaust survivor.

I did not imply any such thing. I don't compare vicimization in terms of how
"horrible" it is. I simply stated that you have not experienced what he did.

>the state of this sorry world we inhabit, WE ALL have a lot to learn...
>We all share the blame collectively in a sense,
>but there comes a time when the blaming must stop and we must move on...

I'm not sure who this collective "we" is that you presume. To tell someone
who has experienced a profound trauma (there are many kinds...) to "move on"
when they are sharing something about themselves, is an act of not listening.
It's not that easy, and in some cases not possible.

I can relate to your impatience and anger. I can't relate to your need to
spread "the blame" all around (whatever that is), or to see this world as
such a "sorry" place, or to engross yourself in hate literature.
Why don't you just move on? (it's easier said than done)....

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Lucia Ruedenberg
New York University
Dept of Performance Studies
Email: ruednbrg@ACFcluster.NYU.EDU
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 18 Jun 1993 09:53:45 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         "Robert A. Book" 
Subject:      Re: Anti-semetic?
In-Reply-To:  <9306161943.AA22030@moe.rice.edu>; from "Daud R. Matthews" at Jun
              16, 93 2:38 pm

>
> According to the Oxford Dictionary (learners edition) semetic refers to of the
> Hebrews and Arabs.
>
> For my part I wonder how all Jews can be semites when some are NOT descended
> from the "Children of Israel" having embraced Judaism through conversion,
> as in the case of many from the xUSSR?

It is true that the term "semitic" (not semEtic) refers to Hebrews and
Arabs.  It can also be taken to include Ethiopians, since they speak a
semitic language (Amharic).

The term "antisemitic" (sometimes spelled "Anti-Semitic"), however,
does not refer to opposition to Semites generally, but only to Jews.
Remember that a word's meaning is determined by it's use, not by it's
derivation.  "Antisemitic" is never used to indicate hatred of Arabs
or Ethiopians; it is used only for hatred of Jews.

The term was first used in the late 19th century, when a German
political organization called the "Anti-Judaism League" changes its
name to the "Anti-Semitism League" since they thougt that name sounded
In the book "Why the Jews? The Reasons for Antisemitism", authors
Dennis Prager and Joseph Telushkin make a point to explain that they
spell it "antisemitism" rather than "Anti-Semitism", since the hyphen
and the capitals imply, incorrectly, that there is some entity
"Semitism" to which "Anti-Semites" are opposed.

The fact that some Jews may not be biologically descended from the
"original" Hebrews is irrelevant, since those who profess antisemitism
are generally opposed to or express hatred of all Jews, regardless of
their genetic origins.  This even true of Hitler, who, despite his
emphasis on genetics, sent converted Jews to the extermination camps
along with born Jews.  It is interesting to note that his "genetic"
definition of Jews worked only one way -- one who was born Jewish and
converted, or was decended from Jews (even one great-grandparent) was
considered a Jew for the purpose of extermination, but one who was
born a non-Jew and converted to Judaism was also considered a Jew for
the purpose of extermination.

In short, whether all Semites are Jews or all Jews are Semites is
irrelevant.  The word "antisemitism" refers to hatred of Jews, and
this hatred has always been directed against Jews, whatever their
origins, and never against other Semites.

--Robert Book
  Rice University
  rbook@rice.edu
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 18 Jun 1993 09:56:41 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Peter Scott U Sask Library Systems Dept 
Subject:      Holocaust Resource Center at Keene State College
In-Reply-To:  (null)

This is posted for information only:

                      HOLOCAUST RESOURCE CENTER information
     LOCATION:  Mason Library 2nd floor

     HOURS: Mon.-Fri. 10-4 through June; or by appointment

     STAFF:  Charles A. Hildebrandt, Director, (603) 358-2520
             Michelle J. Nash, Assistant, (603) 358-2490

     The HOLOCAUST RESOURCE CENTER is open to all. Its purpose is to
make available the lessons of the Holocaust in the hope that such a
catastrophe will not happen again to the Jews or any group of people.
     Please feel free to come in to browse, to do research, or to
inquire about the services of the Center. Holocaust Center materials
do not circulate. You may use them in the Center anytime it is open
or by appointment.
     Materials for the Center are purchased with voluntary, tax
deductible contributions. No funding is provided by Keene State
College nor any public agency.
.........
I have no connection with this center
scottp@herald.usask.ca
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 18 Jun 1993 12:54:20 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Chris Lasdauskas 
Subject:      Re: Anti-semitism
In-Reply-To:  <9306171523.AA17189@geo.geol.utas.edu.au>



Chris Lasdauskas             _--_|\      Email : u883550@geo.geol.utas.edu.au
Dep't of Geography &        /  Oz  \     Phone : +61 02 202 484 (fax 202 989)
Environmental Studies       \_.--._/         GPO Box 252C, Hobart,
University of Tasmania            V          TAS, Australia, 7000


On Thu, 17 Jun 1993, lin collette wrote:
....
>  don't know my family background but taht's besides the point anyway.  The
> point I was attempting to make in my post concerning the constant generaliza-
> tions made concerning the motivations and actions of entire peoples was simply
> that while it's necessary to face facts about events, one still should avoid
> generalizations and stereotyping whenever possible.  Too many assumptions are
....
> from each other.  As for the woman of Polish descent, I think we all know the
> roles of the Poles in the holocaust, but do we admit to the American role or
....
>
> lin collette

OK, this is not a flame, but I think you have just fallen into the trap
you are pointing out: "we all know the role of the poles in the holocaust".
What exactly was this role which ALL the Poles performed? A large
proportion of my maternal grandmother's family died during the Holocaust,
including in Auschwitz and Dachau (where she was), they were non-Jewish
Poles. A lot of comments on this mailing list have implied the Holocaust
only affected Jews; this was not so. The Nazis were killing off Poles,
Gypsies, Russian POWs, and basically any "half-humans" who they had in
their power. Perhaps the major difference was that they were using the
Poles and so on as an economic tool so long as they were needed, but
having fullfilled that need they would be "surplus to requirements" and
would be "disposed of" to make Lebensraum for the Master race.

I'm not claiming that there were no Polish antisemites, or even that
Polish society didn't mistreat Jews (ghettoes etc existed before the Nazis
came), but to broadly suggest that all Poles helped the Nazis destroy the
Jews is incorrect. Certainly many people would have been too scared to do
much to stop them, but this applied to many Jews who knew full well what was
happening but hoped it would bypass them.
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 18 Jun 1993 12:58:17 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         FISHMAN@SNYFARVA.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Ethnic cleansing

Daniel,

        Your comment gave me shivers--so cynical and probably accurate as well--
but do you have hard evidence that this was, in fact, the operative stance taken
by the Allies?

***********************
        Charles Fishman
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 18 Jun 1993 15:15:48 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         lin collette 
Subject:      Re: Anti-semitism
In-Reply-To:  Message of Fri,
              18 Jun 1993 12:54:20 CDT from 

You're right-I did fall into the trap.  What I should have said was that we
know what happened in Poland and other parts of Europe, and we know that a good
many of the Poles (and others) helped the Nazis with their final solution. But
we also know that there are many of every ethnic background who helped to res-
cue those in danger from the Nazis.  I truly believe that this is what those
who want to categorize entire ethnic groups as anti-semitic forget.  I do apol-
ogize; I wrote in haste and said something that did not clearly say was I did
mean.  As it is, my mother was born and raised in Germany during WWII and was
one of those who helped get the persecuted out of Germany (her family was in-
volved in this, I think), so that's one reason I get a bit steamed when I see
whole groups flamed for aiding and abetting the holocaust.

Incidentally, in reference to Lucia's comment concerning my work: thanks for
belittling it.  Didn't know I was obsessed with Nazi groups, but I'll have to
consult my psychiatrist, won't I?

lin collette
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 18 Jun 1993 15:19:08 CDT
Reply-To:     T.A.McAllister@mailer.leeds.ac.uk
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Alec McAllister 
Subject:      Anti-semetic/semitic/semantic

As a terrible pedant about spelling, I thought I should do penance by
trying to lighten the tone a little with a story, before we end up
flaming each other for typing errors.

In the First World War, Bud, a British Jewish private, was persecuted
by his sergeant. "Sergeant Flanagan's anti-semantic," said Bud, "He
hates Jews, but can't speak his own language well enough to say so.
But I'll get my own back: I'll make it so that people want to laugh
every time they hear his name."

He did it, too: he adopted the stage-name of Bud Flanagan and became
one of Britain's best-loved comedians.

Alec.


Alec McAllister
Arts Computing Development Officer
Computing Service
University of Leeds
LS2 9JT
tel 0532 335399
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 19 Jun 1993 16:42:59 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         RUEDNBRG@NYUACF.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Anti-semitism

Date sent: 18-JUN-1993

Lin - you said...

>...we know that a good
>many of the Poles (and others) helped the Nazis...But
>we also know that there are many of every ethnic background who helped to res-
>cue...

Are you suggesting that about an equal (vague, unspecified) number of
individuals helped the Nazis on the one hand, and helped the victims on the
other? That might actually be an interesting hypothesis to research, but I
don't think it's what you intended to say.

>As it is, my mother was born and raised in Germany during WWII and was
>one of those who helped get the persecuted out of Germany (her family was in-
>volved in this, I think), so that's one reason I get a bit steamed when I see
>whole groups flamed for aiding and abetting the holocaust.

I should think that for precisely this reason, you would understand that
people who acted as your mother were a minority within a majority comprised of
passive indifference or active guilt. What are you steamed about? When people
speak of "groups" they refer to the majority, not the exceptions. If more
had acted as your mother did, we might have seen a very different turn of
events...

>Incidentally, in reference to Lucia's comment concerning my work: thanks for
>belittling it.

I'm sorry if my comments came across that way. I did not mean to belittle
your work. On the contrary, to be "obsessed" by something (and I didn't say
that, you did), is to make it very large and very important indeed. But since
you bring it up, I think that 'obsession' characterizes quite accurately
the involvement of many who have been touched by the Holocaust in one way
or another (myself included), at least for a while. Whether this is something
good or bad, I don't know. We all have our way of coping with the material
emotionally. The way you described your feelings, after having spent an
evening of filing the literature you collect, struck me. I was simply making
the point that to tell someone or everyone that it's time to "move on" is glib
 - that is what I was belittling.

Why don't you tell us something about your work? what ARE you doing?

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Lucia Ruedenberg
New York University
Dept of Performance Studies
Email: ruednbrg@ACFcluster.NYU.EDU
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 19 Jun 1993 16:46:41 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         BERMAN E-MAIL 
Subject:      Re: Anti-semitism

To Chris Lasdauskas,

        I am sorry for the losses of your maternal grandmother, but I find
too often that people (non jews more than jews) tend to attempt to
diminish the scale of the Holocaust by saying things like "well they killed
Gypsies, POW's Homosexuals, etc... too, it wasn't just the jews..."


        There was only one FINAL SOLUTION. This was aimed as a direct attempt
to rid all of German-occupied Europe of JEWS. There were attrocities committed
against other groups, but NOTHING on the same scale as the Jews. People who
opposed/did not cooperate with the Nazies, if they were killed, it was for
that reason (Not that I condone that either).  But there were millions of
Jews just minding their own business and the Nazis murdered them for something
they had no control over. It wasn't their lifestyle, or their politics, it was
the religion of their parents, grandparents or even great grandparents. Just
as it is wrong to blame the grandson of a Nazi for what his grandparents did,

how can you kill a baby because it's mother is Jewish? Well, it was done. Jews
are the ONLY culture that were targeted on the scale of millions. Do not
deny or belittle that.

        HAL BERMAN
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 22 Jun 1993 08:36:30 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         "Michael M. Miller" 
Subject:      Re: Shtetl help needed
In-Reply-To:  Message of Mon, 07 Jun 93 15:58:55 CDT from 

A person to contact would be Daniel Schlyter, Family History Center,
West Temple, Salt Lake City, UT 84150.  Sugguest to Mr. Schlyter if he
could forward your letter to the person who specializes with Galicia.

Michael M. Miller, Germans from Russia Bibliographer
North Dakota State University Libraries, Fargo
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 23 Jun 1993 11:30:51 -0500
Reply-To:     Jim Mott 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Jim Mott 
Subject:      How to reach Online Library Catalogs

prepared by Jackie Kent, SUNY Cortland
kentj@snycorva


TELNET is a command you issue when logged on to
your mainframe.  IBM mainframe users may have to
issue GETDISK TELNET command first.  Thus for
example Berkeley:
exit from your MAIL system to mainframe prompt
TELNET GopAC.Berkeley.edu   is what you type...

        University of California, Berkeley - GLADIS
                Telnet to GopAC.Berkeley.edu
                Press return for welcome screen
                Type quit to exit

        Emory University Libraries
                Telnet EMUVM1.CC.EMORY.EDU
                Clear screen
                Type and enter Dial DVTAM
                Type and enter library
                To exit choose option #4
                enter cssf to logoff

        Harvard University - HOLLIS
                Telnet hollis.harvard.edu (128.103.60.31)
                Press return
                The next screen begins 'HARVARD UNIVERSITY/OFFICE FOR
                 INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY."
                 Type hollis after the prompt and press enter
                 Welcome to Hollis should display

        University of Illinois/Urbana-Champaign - ILLINET
                Telnet to Garcon.cso.uiuc.edu
                Enter lcs at the login prompt

        Indiana University Libraries
                Telnet to iuis.ucs.indiana.edu
                After identifying terminal type, type guest at the
                 prompt for user ID
                (Can get user ID by calling the Bloomington help desk
                 at 812 855-8506)
                At the "Indiana University Network" screen, select
                 Information Online by typing 3 followed by enter.

        University of Iowa libraries
                Telnet oasis.uiowa.edu
                Enter terminal type at prompt
                Type 1 for Oasis access and press return

        University of Michigan
                Telnet to CTS.MERIT.EDU
                enter mirlyn at the prompt "which host?"
                enter a terminal type
                choose MCAT from the menu

        New York Public Library
                Telnet to nyplgate.nypl.org
                Login as nypl
                Enter password nypl

        Princeton University Library
                Telnet to pucable.princeton.edu
                Press enter
                type call 500

        University of Texas Austin - UTCAT
                Telnet utcat.utexas.edu
                Blank screen will appear with no prompt
                Press return once ( or more if needed)
                At the GO prompt, press return
                At the ENTER TERMINAL TYPE prompt, type vt100
                Follow instructions on the screen

        University of Wisconsin
                Telnet nls.adp.wisc.edu
                Enter terminal type
                select NLS from the menu
                Press enter to search the Madison catalog OR
                 type MIL and press enter for the Milwaukee catalog

        Yale University - ORBIS
                Telnet orbis.yale.edu
                When prompt appears, enter to connect to ORBIS

        Cornell University
                Telnet cornellc.cit.cornell.edu OR
                tn3270 cornellc.cit.cornell.edu
                At logon prompt, hit enter or clear
                At command screen, type library and press enter
        There are two directories that are available through ftp and are
updated periodically.  One is maintained by Art St. George, INTERNET
ACCESSIBLE LIBRARY CATALOGS AND DATABASES and can be downloaded with the
ftp command from ariel.unm.edu.  CD to library and the file is called
INTERNET.LIBRARY (ascii).  The second is by Billy Barron and titled
UNT'S ACCESSING ON-LINE BIBLIOGRAPHIC DATABASES and can be downloaded
from ftp.unt.edu.  The directory is Library and the file name is
Libraries.txt (ascii).

        Two other accesses that might be tried are HNSource and, if
available, Hytelnet.  To access HNSource, telnet hnsource.cc.ukans.edu.
Login with history and a number of choices are made available, including
access to numerous libraries.  If a system offers hytelnet, type hytelnet
at the $ prompt (vax) and the screens are self-explanatory.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 23 Jun 1993 11:35:53 -0500
Reply-To:     Jim Mott 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Jim Mott 
Subject:      Re:  Bombings

(From: holo%kg6kf.ampr.org@uicvm.uic.edu (Holocaust Center--San Francisco)

For discussions between US and UK governments regarding bombing of Auschwitz
and other camps see the well documented report in Bernard Wasserstein's,
Britain and the Jews of Europe, 1939-1945, published in NY by Oxford Univeristy
Press 1979
ZZ
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 23 Jun 1993 11:36:21 -0500
Reply-To:     Jim Mott 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Jim Mott 
Subject:      Re:  Ethnic Cleansing

(From: lou%kg6kf.ampr.org@uicvm.uic.edu (Louis de Groot)

Suggest you also look at Britain and the Jews of Europe 1939-1945 by Bernard
Wasserstein for cables between US Sttate Department and Britain's Foreign
Office regarding hesitation to fight "this war for the Jews" . Bernard
Wassersteins' work was published by Oxford Univ Press in 1979 and contains
a lot of information about the US diplomacy with respect to the Jews during
the same years.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 23 Jun 1993 12:58:16 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Jerry Rosenberg 
Subject:      auschwitz bombing

Peter et.al.: I had been in the middle of posting the complete text of a
letter from John J. McCloy, Assistant Sect. of War to Mr. John W. Pehle,
Executive Director of the War Refugee Board, dated November 1944 and
unclassified on Aoc. 12, 1965 when my computer informed me the mail had
been dumped and was lost. The basic points are that precision heavy bombing
would be necessary, the targets is beyond the maximum range of aircraft
located in the UK, France and Italy, it would be a hazardous round-trip, and at
 this particular time in the war, the desruction  of the industrial capability
was of greater importance and the ultimate solution to the problems of the
concentration and extermination camps will be the earliest possible victory
over Germany. The bottom line was that the War Department decided it was not
the time to take up the bombings of the camps. This letter was written in
response to a letter from Pehle concerning two eye-witness reports on
Auschwitx-Birkenau. The letterhead is War Department, Office of the
Assistant Secretary, Washington D.C.

I am trying to digest the mission report concerning a flight to bomb
Oswiecim, dated 13 Sept.,1944 that confirms that bombing went on
around the camp as heard by my survivor friend even though the
argument was being presented that the camps could not be bombed.
It clearly appears that there were no logistical problems, just
possibly some moral and ethical ones.
Jerry
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 23 Jun 1993 16:06:54 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Peter Scott U Sask Library Systems Dept 
Subject:      Re: How to reach Online Library Catalogs
In-Reply-To:  (null)

> If a system offers hytelnet, type hytelnet
> at the $ prompt (vax) and the screens are self-explanatory.

You can try out the latest version of HYTELNET by telnet to
access.usask.ca    login: hytelnet   (lowercase). This is just a browser
for non-U of S users.

Peter Scott....Manager, Small Systems....University of Saskatchewan Libraries
      scottp@herald.usask.ca   Phone 306-966-5920     FAX 306-966-6040
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 25 Jun 1993 09:30:23 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         RICHARD JENSEN 
Subject:      H-Net Announces 13 Scholarly History E-Lists

    H-Net Announces 13 scholarly lists in history
    June 25, 1993
                   H-Net: History On-Line
    Dramatic changes are underway in the electronic
    communications infrastructure worldwide.  Academics are
    beginning to take advantage of the new opportunities.
    H-Net is an initiative of the History department at the
    University of Illinois, Chicago, to assist historians to go
    on-line, using their personal computers and the Internet and
    Bitnet electronic communications networks.
         H-Net is sponsoring a series of electronic discussion
    groups or "lists."  Subscribers automatically receive
    messages in their computer mailboxes. These messages can be
    saved, discarded, copied, printed out, or relayed to someone
    else.  The lists are like newsletters that are published
    daily, and which carry announcements from the editor, and
    letters and mini-essays from the subscribers. Currently our
    largest list is HOLOCAUS with 290 subscribers in 15
    countries; they receive an average of 5 messages a day.
    Membership is open to any historian or graduate student, and
    is free.  Each list is moderated by a historian and has a
    board of editors.  The moderators control the flow of
    messages and reject those unsuitable for a scholarly
    discussion group.
         The primary purpose of each list is to enable
    historians to easily communicate current research and
    teaching interests; to discuss new approaches, methods and
    tools of analysis; to share information on access to library
    catalogs and other electronic databases; and to test new
    ideas and share comments on current historiography.  Each
    list is especially interested in methods of teaching history
    to graduate and undergraduate students in diverse settings.
    The lists feature dialogues in the discipline. They publish
    syllabi, course outlines, class handouts, bibliographies,
    listings of new sources, guides to online library catalogs
    and archives, and reports on new software, datasets and
    cd-roms. Subscribers write in with questions, comments, and
    reports, and sometimes with mini-essays of a page or two.
    Most of the lists have no chronological or geographical
    limits.
              The H-Net lists currently in operation are:
    H-Urban      Urban history
    H-Rural      Rural and agricultural history
    H-Women      Women's history
    H-Diplo      Diplomatic history, foreign affairs,
                 international relations
    HOLOCAUS     Holocaust studies; anti-semitism; related
                 themes of modern history
    H-South      US South
    H-CivWar     US Civil War
    H-LatAm      Latin American History
    H-Law        Legal and Constitutional history
    H-Ethnic     American ethnic & immigration history
         by July 4:
    H-AmStdy     American Studies
    H-Ideas      Intellectual history
       beginning fall 1993:
    IEAHC-Net    American colonial history; sponsored by
                 Institute of Early American History & Culture
                 at Williamsburg
    Other lists are being discussed; to volunteer as editor or
    member of an editorial board, please send a note to
    H-NET@uicvm.
    To subscribe: send this message to LISTSERV@UICVM
      sub  xxxxxx Firstname Surname, Yourschool
     where xxxxxx = list name; for example,
      sub H-Urban Leslie Jones, Northern Vermont U
    [ the Internet address = LISTSERV@uicvm.uic.edu]
         Each list will publish (at no cost) announcements of
    jobs, fellowships, conferences, conventions, new books, new
    journals, new e-lists, and the like. To post an announcement
    to all the H-Net lists, send an email copy:
    by Bitnet to             H-NET@uicvm
    or by Internet to        H-NET@uicvm.uic.edu
    or by CompuServe to      >INTERNET:H-NET@UICVM.UIC.EDU
    or send a fax copy to (312) 996-6377, care of H-Net.
         Each list will publish book reviews.  To volunteer as a
    reviewer send a note to the editor at @uicvm (For example,
    H-URBAN@uicvm or H-LatAm@uicvm). To submit books for review,
    or for other paper correspondence, write to
         H-Net  room 723 SEO
         Dept of History m/c 198
         851 S Morgan St
         Chicago IL 60607-7049
         [our phone is: 312-996-3141   our fax: 312-996-6377]

         H-Net will be offering one-day training workshops at
    history conventions and at history departments across the
    country.  It has been endorsed by the American Historical
    Association, the Organization of American Historians and the
    Southern Historical Association, and has received funding
    from the American Council of Learned Societies. H-Net is
    directed by Richard Jensen, professor of history at UIC
         u08946@uicvm voice: 615-552-9923
    =========================================================
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 25 Jun 1993 09:34:02 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         AJHYMAN@UTOROISE.BITNET
Subject:      Emergency - History Dept. Under Attack

--- please re-distribute to all parties ---
------------------------------------------
EMERGENCY - HISTORY PROGRAM UNDER ATTACK
June 22, 1993
In its hastily-drawn proposal to deal with fiscal problems, the
Ontario Institute for Studies in Education (OISE) administration
has signalled its intention to terminate the history of education
program. On Monday, May 17th, the assistant director told
Professors David Levine and Harold Troper that their employment
will be terminated. On May 18th, the administration publicly offered
the following explanation for its decision:
Only two of the five faculty members in the history of education
program at OISE teach or supervise in the history of education and
that in view of their impending retirements, "there will be no one
doing research and publishing in this field."
David Levine and Harold Troper are suddenly declared to be "social
historians who do not specialize in the history of education." This
is a spurious argument. Levine has been employed at OISE as a
professor of education since 1975 while Troper has been a professor
of education at OISE for more than twenty-one years. Now, for the
first time, it is being alleged that Levine and Troper are not
professors of education. In doing so, this administration contradicts
a long series of executive decisions.

David Levine and Harold Troper were each hired, reviewed, tenured
and promoted three times - from lecturer to full professor of
education - at OISE. They have taught courses in the history of
education and supervised these in the history of education.
Because all OISE students
eceive their degrees from the School of
Graduate Studies of the University of Toronto, the OISE
administration has always been required to seek and to receive
approval for their courses by certifying that Professors Levine and
Troper are specialized teachers and researchers in education. In this
regard, it must be emphasized that the courses taught by Professors
Levine and Troper have always been approved by successive OISE
administrations, included in the OISE Bulletins, counted towards
students' degree programs, and ratified by the University of Toronto.
The dissertations they supervised were all certified by OISE
administrations to be in education; this has always been
warranted by the University of Toronto School of Graduate Studies.
Until this sudden atmosphere of crisis, there has never been any
question that Levine and Troper are anything but professors of
education.

Professors Levine and Troper have scholarly interests that are
fundamental to educational understanding. Who would argue that
issues of family, culture, class, immigration, ethnicity and race -
subjects at the core of Levine's and Troper's teaching and research -
are not central to education?

The OISE administration's assertion is being advanced to fire two
eminently-qualified professors with long lists of publications and
awards. It seems to be a most peculiar response toward academic
excellence from a graduate school of education. If this mindless
administrative blunder succeeds then it will diminish both the
academic traditions and contractual obligations tied to tenure,
seniority and rank.

You can help stop this action by voicing your opinion to Chair of the
Ad Hoc Committee on Retrenchment:  Sami Najm
either by writing in person
c/o the Offic
 of the Director, OISE
252 Bloor Street West,
Toronto, Ontario, Canada M5S 1V6
or by fax at 416-926-4725
or by e-mail to GRADSTUDY@UTorOISE.bitnet
with cc to Arthur Kruger, Director:  AKRUGER@oise.on.ca
and cc Dwight Boyd, Dept. Chair:   D_BOYD@oise.on.ca
-------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 25 Jun 1993 13:26:23 -0500
Reply-To:     Jim Mott 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Jim Mott 
Subject:      Announcment of interest

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
X                                                              X
X                      CALL FOR MANUSCRIPTS                    X
X                                                              X
X     _HISTORY_MICROCOMPUTER_REVIEW_ was founded in 1985 to    X
X  promote computer-assisted history instruction.  _HMR_       X
X  reaches a worldwide audience of history teachers interested X
X  in using the new electronic tools to reach today's students X
X  in ways that promote the imaginative reconstruction of the  X
X  past, the acquisition of verbal and cognitive skills, and   X
X  an interest in the application of historical information to X
X  evaluate present reality.                                   X
X                                                              X
X     In eight and one-half years of publication, _HMR_ has    X
X  published numerous articles and approximately 250 reviews   X
X  of books and software programs.  _HMR_ reviews books and    X
X  software of potential use for secondary school social       X
X  studies teachers or university history professors.          X
X                                                              X
X     For information on submitting articles to _HMR_, write:  X
X  James B. M. Schick, Department of History, Pittsburg State  X
X  University, Pittsburg, Kansas 66762.  FAX: 316-232-7515.    X
X                                                              X
X     If you wish to be included among those assigned to       X
X  review software or to solicit a review of a specific        X
X  program, write: Professor Leslie Gene Hunter, Department    X
X  of History, Texas A&M University--Kingsville, Kingsville,   X
X  Texas 78363.  Internet: KFLGH00@TAIMVS1.TAIU.EDU            X
X  Bitnet: KFLGH00@TAIMVS1.BITNET                              X
X                                                              X
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 25 Jun 1993 15:18:20 -0500
Reply-To:     Jim Mott 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Jim Mott 
Subject:      this is a test

To Bob Pasker:

This is a test.  Let me know if you receive this.

Jim Mott
jimmott@spss.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 27 Jun 1993 09:12:46 PDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Bob Pasker 
Subject:      The Jerusalem One Platform Gopher

 Use your gopher client to attach to this service at jerusalem1.datasrv.co.il

 MK Ovadia Eli - Lt. Chairman of The Kenneset (Likud)
 MK Avigdor Kahalani (Labour)
 MK Dahlia Itzchak (Labour)
 Joesph Van Zwarren - Min. of Science and Technology
 Benyamin HaLevy - General Manager JINC
 Zvi Lando - Network Manager



                  The Jerusalem One Network
                  *************************

   The JICN  has taken the initiative of establishing a foundation
 to  fund  the  maintenance of  Jewish networking  activities from
 Jerusalem.  The  foundation is   headed by  Israeli  businessmen,
 Members  of  Kenesset, other key public figures, and  has already
 gotten  significant funding  to launch  the  establishment  of an
 information - server. This server will work in close contact with
 the  Israel project  at the NyserNet server in New York and  with
 similar motivated individuals and projects to advance the goal of
 strengthening the Jewish community world-wide.

   Our hope is that, in the near future, to have at our facilities
 the resources  to initiate a  varied spectrum  of Jewish services
 and to allow  those who  wish to initiate such services to do so.

   In these beginning  months of our activity, we plan to initiate
 such  services which we feel  are within  our reach. With this in
 mind, we have as our main goal the Jewish university students and
 Jewish high  schools who  will soon be the leaders of our people.

 We have the following goals:

 1) To work with schools,  Jewish  organizations and  institutions
    throughout the Jewish Global Community.

 3) To connect with Jewish people throughout the world and to give
    them  interesting and  important Jewish  information  services
    which will strengthen  their roots  to the  Jewish People  and
    their contact with Israel.

 3) To provide Jewish university students a wealth of services and
    information  about  Israel,  Zionism and  Jewish  culture  and
    sciences, information tailored to their interests and demands.

 4) To publish a  catalogue on  Jewish  networking  and to provide
    promotional  information which  will enable  a Jew anywhere in
    the  world to  know how  he can  find  any  information   that
    interests  him and  to allow  easy  access to  these services.

 5) To  insure correct  and timely  maintenance of these services.

 6) To enrich  the network knowledge of these users and to execute
    programs that  will encourage them  to actively participate in
    the project.

 7) To  actively take part  in a world-wide champaign to encourage
    Jewish people  and students to connect  to the Internet and to
    use our services.

 8) To offer The Jerusalem One network for Non-Jews over the world
    as a reference and information  center from where they too can
    learn about the Jewish People and Israel


 Thank-you,

 Zvi Lando
 Jerusalem One Network Manager
 lando@jerusalem1.datasrv.co.il


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