From: rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU (Richard J. Green)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'The Bodies Were Dragged Out Of the Gas Chambers'
Date: 23 May 1996 15:04:15 -0700
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Lines: 93
Message-ID: <4o2ncv$jap@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU>
References:  <4o03eh$pt4@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> <4o0bav$e1n@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU> <4o0o28$pnr@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: d31rz0.stanford.edu

In article <4o0o28$pnr@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>,
Matt Giwer  wrote:
>rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU (Richard J. Green) wrote:
>
>>In article <4o03eh$pt4@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>,
>>Matt Giwer  wrote:
>
>>>>I could see that the lips and tips of the noses were a bluish
>>>>color. Some of them had their closed, other's eyes rolled. The
>>>>bodies were dragged out of the gas chambers and inspected by a
>>>>dentist, who removed finger rings and gold teeth...
>
>>>     Don't you think it curious that he sees the color characteristic
>>>of cyanide rather than of CO poisoning?
>
>>Is Mr. Giwer arguing that cyanosis is not a symptom of CO poisoning?
>>OSHA seems to disagree, but perhaps they're lying:
>
>>OSHA Chemicals>> Carbon Monoxide
>> 
>> NM     Carbon Monoxide
>> SYN    CO; Diesel Exhaust Component
>> IMIS   0560
>> CAS    630-08-0
>> NIOSH  RTECS FG3500000
>> DOT    1016 18
>> DESC   Colorless, odorless gas.
>>        MW: 28      BP: -313 F      VP: >1 atm     MP: -326
>>        F
>> INCOM  Strong oxidizers
>> OSHA   50 ppm, 55 mg/m3
>> TLV    25 ppm, 29 mg/m3 TWA
>> REL    35 ppm 8 hr TWA; 200 ppm Ceiling
>> SYMP   T    Headaches; tachypnea; nausea; weakness, dizziness, confusion,
>>        halucinations; cyanosis; depressed, ST segment of electrocardiogram;
>>        angina; syncope
>> HLTH   Asphyxiation, Chemical anoxia  (HE17)
>> ORG    CVS, lungs, blood, CNS
>> SLC1   MEDIA: Direct Reading Passive Monitor (Draeger Datalogger, 0-999ppm)
>>        MAX T: 480 minutes
>>        ANL 1: Direct Reading
>>        . REF: 2 (OSHA ID-209)    SAE: 0.07      CLASS: Fully Validated
>>        MEDIA: Five Layer Aluminized Gas Sampling Bag (5 Liter)
>>        MAX V: 5.0 Liters          MAX F: 0.05 L/Min (TWA)
>>        ANL 1: Gas Chromatography; GC/DID
>>        REF: 2 (OSHA ID-210)   SAE: 0.04   CLASS: Fully Validated
>> SAM2   DET. TUBE Available from OSHA Cincinnati Lab: Carbon
>>        .    Monoxide 4-1La
>>        DET. TUBE (low): Kitagawa, 106S, 10-250 ppm
>>        .                Sensidyne, 1La, 8-1000 ppm
>>        .                Kitagawa, 100, 5-1000 ppm
>>        .                Kitagawa, 106SA, 5-1000 ppm
>>        DET. TUBE (high):Draeger, CH20601, 10-3000 ppm
>>        .                MSA, 487334, 10-3000 ppm
>>        .                Sensidyne, 1L, 5-2000 ppm
>>        .                Kitagawa, 106SH, 0.1-0.2%
>>        MIRAN 1A ∧ 1B: MIN. Det. Con. 2.1 ppm at 4.7 um
>>        MIRAN 103:  Range 100 ppm at 4.61 um
>> WIPE   No
>> DIV    I
>> BRANCH SE
>>.
>
>       Argue with this guy and Keren who swears by him.   Pinkish.  Do
>you have a problem with this eyewitness?  Just say so.  One of
>them is lying.

Does Mr. Giwer have evidence that victims of CO poisoning can never look
pinkish?   Does he think it's a binary operation?  Either all CO victims
are cyanotic or else all CO victims are pinkish?  One wishes Mr. Giwer
would be more explicit in what claim he is making.  Does he claim that
CO victims are never cyanotic?  Does he claim that CO victims are never
pinkish?  Of course, he will not give a straight answer because:

Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, a troller whose only
interest is in causing fights.  While he can sound superficially
plausible, he has lied about what has been said in exchanges (while
accusing others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to
see posts which contain documented refutation of his claims (even when
they have been emailed to him), engaged in actual libel, and generally
conducted himself with such complete lack of intellectual and factual
integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and
respond.  For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to

URL http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt


-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard J. Green                                Dept. of Chemistry
rjg@lyman.Stanford.EDU                          Stanford University     
http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud        Stanford, CA 94305-5080
"If it works, take it apart and find out why."  - unknown





From: 100644.317@compuserve.com (Miloslav Bilik)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'The Bodies Were Dragged Out Of the Gas Chambers'
Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 19:03:05 GMT
Organization: Compuserve
Lines: 41
Message-ID: <4o516l$8s3@arl-news-svc-3.compuserve.com>
References:  <4o03eh$pt4@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> <4o0bav$e1n@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU> <4o0o28$pnr@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd53-124.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>>I could see that the lips and tips of the noses were a bluish
>>color. Some of them had their closed, other's eyes rolled. The
>>bodies were dragged out of the gas chambers and inspected by a
>>dentist, who removed finger rings and gold teeth...

>       Don't you think it curious that he sees the color characteristic
>of cyanide rather than of CO poisoning?


>       Argue with this guy and Keren who swears by him.   Pinkish.  Do
>you have a problem with this eyewitness?  Just say so.  One of
>them is lying.

>>Dr. Theodor Friedrich Leidig, testifying about one of the first 
>>gassings in Sachsenhausen, in which Soviet POW's were murdered

>>that the people were dead.  The van was opened. Some bodies fell
>>out; the others were unloaded by prisoners. Those of us who were
>>chemists could ascertain that the bodies had that pinkish look
>>which is typical of victims of carbon monoxide poisoning.

If you were a physician, you would soon have some deaths among your
patients, if you don't make a difference between a constant sign, and
a sign proving the diagnosis.

The pink color of the skin with CO is characteristic but very rare.
The fact is well known. The victim is more often pale and cyanotic
(*).

You should, as you often give us your misconceptions about the HCN, CO
poisonings, buy a rudimentary medical manual about these matters. It
could avoid you doing such absurd claims.

MB.

(*) A reference if you're not too tired: Matthew H., Acute poisoning:
some myths and misconceptions, British Medical Journal, 1, 519, 1971.

Home ·  Site Map ·  What's New? ·  Search Nizkor