From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Oct 14 09:50:48 PDT 1996 Article: 74123 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!howland.erols.net!news.sgi.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi148.rbi.com!user From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: I always get the feeling Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 06:23:15 -0800 Organization: rbi software systems Lines: 330 Message-ID:References: <53heff$kne@is05.micron.net> <53ppoe$kjq@is05.micron.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5 In article , dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote: > kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt Stele) writes: > > # According to the "Holocaust" tale they gassed people > # every 5 - 20 minutes. > > Rubbish. The large gas chambers held at least 1,500 people. > It is impossible that they were used at a rate even close > to the one you give. Obviously, Herr Wankermeister, being the dim-bulb he is, can't discern between how long the Nazi gassed their victims to death with Zyklon B to (5-20 minutes) and how long it took to get all 1,500 or so victims undreressed, into the homicidal gas chamber where they were murdered, hauled out, and their corpses plundered and incinerated (about a day.) > # If this is true there STILL was far more gas used to gas > # people than to gas lice. > > But it's not true. Indeed it is not. Herr Wankermeister, being the dim-bulb he is, failed to consider that for every transport of deportees (~1,000 people) murdered in the the gas chamber it took about 4 kg of Zyklon B (6 kg for 1,500 people). However, in addition to delousing the clothes of the _registered_ inmates, the personal effects of the victims were also disinfested. So, how much Zyklon B was used in the delousing gas chambers? According to NI-9912 (section IX): "...For inside temperatures of more than 5 degrees Cent. it is customary to use 8 g prussic acid per m3. Time needed to take effect: 16 hours, unless there are special circumstances such as a closed-in type of building, which requires less time. If the weather is warm it is possible to reduce this to a minimum of 6 hours. The period is to be extended to 32 hours if the temperature is below 5 deg. Cent. "The strength and time as above are to be applied in the case of: bugs, lice, fleas, etc., with eggs, larves, and chrysales." "For clothes moths: temperatures above 10 deg. Cent.: 16g per m3 and 24 hours to take effect. (Pressac, _Technique_, p.19.) So, 8-16 grams of Zyklon per cubic meter, depending on the insect. How big were the delousing gas chambers? Note: grams of prussic acid per cubic meter does _not_ equate to grams of Zyklon B per cubic meter. Zyklon B was the carrier for the prussic acid (HCN). According to _Nazi Mass Murder_ (p.206) the Zyklon B carrier held aproximately twice its weight in prussic acid. This would mean that a 1 kg can of Zyklon B actually contained about 660g of prussic acid. Zyklon B disinfestation gas chambers at Auschwitz I =================================================== The disinfestation chambers in Block 26 measured 7.80 m x 4.92 m and 9.70 m x 4.92 m. (cf. Ibid. p.24.) Assuming a height of 3.8 m (same as in the delousing chamber of Block 1) that gives volumes of ~146 cu m and ~181 cu m, respectively. A disinfestation time the same as that of Block 3 is assumed. (See below.) The disinfestation chamber in Block 1 measured aproximately 5.5 m x 3.2 m x 3.8 m, for a volume of ~67 cu m. According to Andrzeje Rablin, a prisoner who worked the disinfestation gas chambers of Block 3, it topok about 26 hours per disinfestation (cf. Ibid. p.27.) I will assume a similar time for the disinfestation gas chamber in Block 1. The disinfestation chamber of Kanada I poses problems in estimating how much Zyklon B was used. Pressac gives no dimensions for it, however he does supply a map of the installation that shows where the disinfestation chamber is located, and that it occupies one half of the building it is in. (cf. Ibid. p.41.) Fortunately, one can get get a rough measure of the dimensions to the disinfestation building in Kanada I from one of Ball's air photos: 10 m x 4 m. (cf. Ball, _Air Photo Evidence_, p.34.) Assuming a room height of 3.8 m (i.e. that of Block 1's chamber), and that the chamber occupied half the building, the Kanada I disinfestation chamber would have had a volume of 76 cu m. According to Josef Odl, a prisoner who worked in Kanada I in the spring of 1944, multiple cans of Zyklon B were used in each disinfestation which, also according to him, took approximately one hour. (cf. Ibid.) Then there were the 19 Zyklon B delousing chambers in the Stammmlager reception building. Each had a volume of about 10 cu m and used heated forced air to reduce the disinfestation time to somewhere between 1-2 hours. (Pressac, _Technique_ p.31; Van Pelt, _Auschwitz: 1270 to the present_, p. 220-221.) Now, given that Rablin explicity stated that the time taken for delousing was 24 hours, (and given that the plundered clothes of the inmates were shipped back to the Reich) it is quite probable that the disinfestations were done using 16g of HCN per cu m -the concentration and time dictated to kill clothes moths (and, of course, lice, fleas, etc.). Note: Given that Zyklon B came in 200g, 500g, 1 kg, and 1.5 kg cannisters, I will adjust the estimated Zyklon required (below) to the nearest cannister amount. (Pressac, _Technique_, pp.16-17,21.) This would then indicate that the two disinfestation chambers in Block 26 would probably have used 8 kg of Zyklon B per (combined) disinfection and 1.5 kg for Block 1's chamber. The Stammlager's 19 disinfestation chambers where used to disinfest the clothes of registering (or registered) prisoners. If used continuously they could each perform, at most, 24 disinfestions per day and use, assuming 8g cu m instead of 16 g cu m, 3.8 kg of Zyklon B per disinfestation. (The reason for assuming 8 cu m is due to the nature of the Stammlager's disinfestation process which was geared to disinfesting and _returning_ the to the prisoners' their clothes. Arguably, the only purpose involved here would be delousing, which requires only 8g cu m of prussic acid.) Estimating the Stammlager's capacity is somewheat difficult, considering that it was designed in 1942 for a camp population of 30,000. By the time of it's completion in April/May 1944 the the population of Auschwitz was: Auschwitz I 16,000 men Auschwitz II 15,000 men 21,000 women Auschwitz III 15,000 men ----------------------- 46,000 men, 21,000 women Total 67,000 prisoners cf. Czech, _Auschwitz Chronicle_, p.606. If we add to this the estimated 44,000 Hungarian Jews who survived selection during Aktion Ho"ss, that would bring the total to over 100,000 prisoners. How many of these prisoners actually would have been deloused in the Stammlager? Probably most the new prisoners who were registered in Auschwitz I. Probably the already regstered prisoners in Auschwitz I. Probably _not_ those in Auschwitz II and III. So, probably at best, 16,000 people could have been eligible for disinfesting at the Stammlager. Given that the Stammlager's 19 disinfestation chambers, each 10 cu m, were quite similar in size to the hot air disinfesting chambers in the Zentral Sauna at Birkenau it is not unreasobale to assume a similar capacity. Photos of the hot air chambers indicate that the garment trolleys held about twenty garmnets and each hot air chamber held two trolleys for a total of about 40 garments. If a similar capacity is considered for the Zyklon B chambers in the Stammlager, this would mean, given a 2 hour disinfestation time, that over 9,000 garments could be disinfested per 24 hours. Assuming that 18,000 garments (approximately the population of Auschwitz I) were disinfested, that would have required 450 disinfesting chamber cycles, or 90 kg of Zyklon B, and would have taken (optimisticaly) the Stammlager's 19 chambers a few days to accomplish. Note: However, as the evidence of any such proactive hygienic measures are quite to the contrary, it is probably realistic to think in terms of _months_ for such numbers of prisoner garments being disinfested rather than days. Such marked difference between the Stammlager's cpacity and reality simply further evidences the homicidal motives of the Nazis by making sure that good personal hygiene was nearly impossible. Obviously, the Stammlager's disinfesting chambers had some major ovecapacity. This rasies the question as to whether the Stammlager's large disinfesting capacity was used to disinfest the plunder of the Hungarian Jews during Aktion Ho"ss. The Stammlager certainly appeares to have had the capacity to handle it: during the two months of Aktion Ho"ss it would have been possible that as many as 540,000 garments could have been disinfested. (Using 2,400 kg of Zyklon B). For Kanada 1's disinfestation chamber, however, we are faced with a bit of a problem: NI-9912 states an exposure of 16 g cu m of prussic acid for 24 hours, while an eyewitness said it took one hour for the disinfestation gassing. Either the exposure time was greater than one hour, or the HCN concentration was higher than 16 g cu m. Or both. Considering that a 16 g cu m HCN concentration in Kanada 1's chamber equates to 1.8 kg of Zyklon B; and that the Zyklon B cans photographed by the Soviets at the liberation of the camp appear to be primarily 1.5 kg cans (cf. Pressac, _Technique_. pp.45,47); and that Odl testified that multiple cans were used, it is arguable that multiple 1.5 kg cans of Zyklon B _were_ used per disinfestation. This would support an HCN concentration of greater than 16g cu m. So, it is likely that the disinfestation time was less than 24 hours. Perhaps much less. Given that NI-9912 states that an HCN concrentration of 75g cu m is required before danger of explosion, 7.5 kg (5 1.5 kg cans) of Zyklon B could have safely been used to speed the disinfestation process. (cf. Ibid. p.18). Therefore, assuming that using four times the Zyklon B would reduce the disinfestation time required to one-fourth the time (not a given, btw), I will guestimate that it took 6 hours per disinfestation at Kanada I. Also, given that the Entwesungskommando at Kanada I had about fifteen people assigned to the disinfestation gas chamber, and that, in comaprison, Rablin talks only about himself and another prisoner at one of the disinfstation gas chambers of Block 3. (cf. Ibid. pp.25,41), I will make yet another guestimate as to that the loading and unloading of Kanada I's gas chamber took four hours. Therefore, I will assume that the entire disinfestation cycle at Kanada took about 10 hours, allowing at most two disinfestations per day. As mentioned above, there were two disinfestation chambers in Block 3. Given that Pressac does not provide the dimensions for the disinfestation chambers in Block 3, I can only conject, based on Rablin's account: "...Since we were afraid of being bitten by the lice we put the chisel, the hammer, and the can of Zyklon B ready in advance, opened it quickly and threw the substance on the floor....," that 1.5 kg were used per chamber. (Ibid. p.25.) This would mean that Block 3's chambers probably used total of 3 kg of Zyklon B per gassing. Furthermore, acccording to Rablin, it _sometimes_ took as long as two days to fill the disinfestation chambers of Block 3 with clothes. (cf. Ibid.) Given this, and that it took about 24 hours to disinfest the clothes, I will assume an _average_ disinfestation cycle-time of 48 hours for the disinfestation chambers of Blocks 1, 3 and 26. Assuming all the disinfestation gas chambers in Auschwitz I were being used and including them (with the exception of the Stammlager's) in the tally, this would mean that the amount of Zyklon B used in the disinfestation gas chambers at Auschwitz I would probably have been around: Zyklon B kg/month kg/year Block 1 .................. 22 264 Block 3 .................. 45 540 Block 26 ................. 120 1,440 Kanada I ................. 225 2,700 Total .... 412 4,944 Zyklon B disinfestation gas chambers at Auschwitz II-Birkemau ============================================================== In Birkenau there two Zyklon B delousing buildings: BW 5a and 5b, located in camps BIa and BIb. Each building had one gas chamber (10.9m x 9.9m x 4.7m) in which, intially, Zyklon B was used. (cf. Ibid. pp.53,55.) Given that the volume of the gas chambers 507 cu m, and that because they were delousing chambers for the prisoners effects an HCN concentration of 8g cu m was likely, each gas chamber would have probably used 6 kg of Zyklon B per delousing. Probably sometime in (late) 1943 the gas chamber in BW 5a was dismantled and two hot air disinfesting chambers installed in it place. (cf. Ibid. p.53.) Assuming one disenfestation gassing per day the amount of Zyklon B usage probably was around: Zyklon B kg/month kg/year BW 5a ................... 180 2,160 BW 5b ................... 180 264 Total .... 360 4,320 However, given that BW 5a was converted to using hot air probably in late 1943, that actual amiunt of Zyklon B used by in 1944 would only be 2,160 kg, Zyklon B and the 1942 Typhus epidemic at Auschwitz II-Birkemau =============================================================== On July 23, 1942, Ho"ss issued Komandantanturbefehl 19/42 placing Birkenau in a state of isolation and increased disinfestation measures due to a severe outbreak of typhus. In the following few months enourmous amounts of Zyklon B were requested by the Auschwitz SS to combat the typhus epedic then raging in Birkenau. Trucks were dispatched to the Zyklon plant at Dessau five times, probably retrieving on the order of 25 _tonnes_ of Zyklon B. (cf. Ibid. p.188.) ***** Now, consider all the above and compare it against Herr Wankermeister's claim that, "If this is true there STILL was far more gas used to gas people than to gas lice." If we take the Auschwitz-Birkenau State Museum's official estimate of 1.13 million murdered at Auschwitz, ascribing _every_ death to gassing with Zyklon (which, of course, is not the case) that would mean that 4,520 kg of Zyklon B would have been used for homicidal purposes at Auschwitz. However, as I have (hopefully) demonstrated, the amount of Zyklon B used for disinfestation purposes in _only_ 1943, for example, would have probably been about 9,000 kg. Then there's the issue of the 25 TONNES used for combatting the typhus epidemic in 1942.... Small wonder why I call Kurtzie Herr Wankermeister. To plagerize Mr. Ferree (sorry Chuck, but it's much too apropo): Herr Wankermeister hasn't had a thought since he discovered masturbation. > # The old "it takes longer to delouse than to gas Jews" position > # is Nizkor's attempted retort to the Leuchter report. > > It's a medical fact, you poor clown. Look at any relevant medical > text and check how long it takes for people to die when exposed to > the same concentration of HCN used for delousing. Sorry, Herr Wankermeister's too busy playing with himself. However, for those interested in HCN trivia, please visit: http://environment.cc.colorado.edu/Courses/SarahMortonReport/Cyanide.html http://www.osha-slc.gov/ChemSamp_data/CH_230400.html http://hammock.ifas.ufl.edu/txt/fairs/15547 http://www.hhmi.org/science/labsafe/lcss/lcss50.htm http://www.opcw.nl/chemhaz/hcn.htm To see exactly what kind of psychopathic anti-Semite Herr Wankermeister is, please visit: http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt Mark -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but right through every human heart--and all human hearts." -- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago" --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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